Re: [Repeater-Builder] IMPORTANT - large amount of stolen equipment recovered - is some yours?
At 03:19 PM 07/01/09, you wrote: Not that impressive really. Whats all this crap worth, maybe $20k? Well, item 105 is a VHF MTR2000 repeater. Think that might be worth something ? Item 117 on the list is a box of 123 handhelds. Pages 4-7 list them. There are a number of HT1000s and HT750s and at least one XTS. Item 202 is a Sinclair Q3220E UHF duplexer. Tessco catalog shows $1100 as the price. I could go on... Not really that much money. You would be of a different opinion if it was your XTS that disappeared, or your hilltop repeater that evaporated. I posted the newsletter fragment so that those that HAVE had stuff disappear might take a look at the serial number lists and maybe recover some property. This mailing list has over 4500 members, and the published story specifically encouraged re-mailing it to others. Hopefully the VCSO detective will get some phone calls or emails stating you've got my equipment. And stuff HAS disappeared from mountaintop sites over the years. I've seen photos of buildings that have been broken into - some were as simple as backing a truck trailer hitch into the door and driving away with it. Others were broken into by drilling out the door locks. The perps have gone through the building walls in several cases. FM broadcast parts pop up in rather strange places these days for cheap since theres really not much legitimate commercial market for a boat-anchor transmitter. A complete 1kw FM broadcast transmitter is unusual enough when it is recovered in a pile of land mobile radios. Plus the newsletter, while run by a ham, is oriented towards the broadcast community, and Mr. Gonset naturally chose to focus on the broadcast equipment. And there is plenty of market in rural areas, and in Mexico. You'd think someone smart/slick enough to get away with stealing that much gear would likely be smart enough to not get busted by the FCC for screwing with mall cops. True, and there is no way to tell what goes through some peoples minds... Some of the comments on this news page are interesting. http://www.venturacountystar.com/news/2009/jun/30/to-malls-radio-frequencies-jammed-man-arrested/#comments Did this guy sell LM radio/programming for a living? Don't know. One local gentleman thinks that he works (worked?) for a local TV station. Mike WA6ILQ
Re: [Repeater-Builder] GM300 Crossband Ham repeater Bi-Directional
Wow, if this is attempting to be nice I can't even imagine what your idea of rude is. Where to start? Well since I'm a DUE paying member of the club and the repeater belongs to THE CLUB, I'm part owner of it. This has also been discussed with the club and received no objection from a majority of the members. At least three other members in the club use dual band mobiles in their homes and make use of a dual band portable HT doing the EXACT SAME THING I'm attempting. Never once has this caused a problem. The repeater uses coded squelch on the input, transmits the tone 24/7 on the output and I planned on using TSQ on my 2m radio, along with DSQ on my 440 radio. Considering that my 2m radio would NEVER transmit unless I was keying it using my 250mw HT then theres no need for IT to ID. Oh and wouldn't it be so terrible to build a 555 timer circuit to ID on the 440mhz unit every 10 minutes it was active with my call sign and maybe a message it was a crossband link? Oh and I'm so terribly sorry to inconvinence YOU with the fact that I'm a highly active member of a radio club whos repeater is nearly 10 miles away from my house as the crow flies and I'd like the convinence of using my low powered HT to, I don't know, TALK TO PEOPLE!? My front porch is at 1025 feet, the base of the water tower is at 1014 feet, stands 274 feet high and our antenna is a high gain repeater specific antenna on a mast 23 feet from the TOP of the tower. Using a VX7R and Diamond HRH77CA on full five watts I can NOT key the repeater. I guess you're just not getting the point of what I'm attempting to do here or something. You seem to think there are plenty of ways to get around my problem without using a cross band pile of garbage but I HIGHLY doubt you could come up with even ONE *REALISTIC* idea of solving this problem. I might be a newly licensed Ham, but I'm not NEW by any means to RF, electronics, nor am I an idiot. Sorry but I'm not going to walk around my hosue with a 25' whip on the end of my HT FFS. Like I said, if you were attempting to be nice you've failed miserably. I on the other hand just don't care anymore, nor am I attemting to be nice in return. The replies I've received from this thread have actually proven the resource of this message board to be compeltely useless to me and I'll be removing my membership to it. Thanks for helping me see I was just wasting my time on here. On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 6:07 PM, Nate Duehr n...@natetech.com wrote: I will avoid going into the technical and political rant of... Why cheap mobile cross-band repeaters hooked to my properly working much more expensive real repeater are bad..., since we've hashed it out here on this list before, and just say this: Call the repeater owner of the repeater you're THINKING about doing this to, and ask their opinion of it. If they say, Please don't do it. Respect their wishes. I can definitely say that in all the time I've run repeaters, the only two things I've had to DF were jammers, and mobile cross-band repeaters built into user rigs that were set up wrong -- where the owner wasn't able to hear that they were stuck in transmit -- that I as a repeater operator had no control over -- that were parked somewhere transmitting crap into our repeaters. We generally do not welcome such operations on our systems nowadays. I can tell some people are doing it, but they seem to have their heads on straight, always run CTCSS on their input frequency, and pay attention to what the thing's doing. Had one ham years ago that would put his carrier squelch only crossbander in that mode and parked his car in a parking garage downtown (high RF environment) for two weeks straight with it transmitting crap into a high mountain repeater. A little hunting found his input frequency and it wasn't me, but I know who ran his truck battery dead... on purpose. I would have been happier if it'd blown the finals, really... after two weeks of listening to the thing and three days of actively hunting it. Think about the following: - Are you going to give a way to control your cross-bander to the control operator of the repeater you're connecting it to? - Is your crossbander going to ID and let folks know it's a cross-bander so they can come beat you with a Wouff Hong if you lock up their system? - Does your FT-8800 properly ID, or are you ID'ing it saying you're operating through a repeater? I'm actually TRYING to be nice here. The words cross-band repeater make my blood boil, since I've been on the receiving end of... Bend over, I'm hooking my crappy cross-bander to your repeater with 150 miles+ of coverage but my crappy HT and rubber duck can't hit it, and I am too lazy to do the RF math to see that I just need a better antenna at VHF... end of this far too many times... There are just better options... lots better... Think about who you'll be inconveniencing if you build a cross-band repeater, and
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: GM300 Crossband Ham repeater Bi-Directional
So, am I correct in understanding that this Batlabs circuit uses the mic socket to the audio transfer? I thought there was one that used the connector in the back of the radio? However if this works I have a few radios to try it out on. Regards Kevin. - Original Message - From: Steve To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 1:20 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: GM300 Crossband Ham repeater Bi-Directional --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, turboelesjuan kd0...@... Heres my question: Is there a controller I can build which has the ability to control TWO Motorola GM300 mobiles w/16pin connectors the same way? Use each radio as a transceiver for bi-directional traffic? I already have both of the GM300 radios and they didn't cost 400$, which my 8800 Did. I want something perm. installed at my house so I can use a small UHF handheld on low power anywhere around my area to chat. Is this possible? Thanks!! -Scott Yes it consists mainly of two 2N3906 transistors. http://www.batlabs.com/maxrpt.html
Re: [Repeater-Builder] DB-224 patterns on side of tower.
Jeff, Do I understand you to then also reject the idea that an omnidirectional colinear antenna, top-mounted on a basic metal pole, is bogus to claim 6 dBd gain in all directions at the same time? The convention is to measure gain at the horizon. The extra power focused by a colinear at the horizon comes from high radiation angles considered useless, not some compass bearings at the expense of others. 73, Paul, AE4KR - Original Message - From: Jeff DePolo To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 6:11 PM Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] DB-224 patterns on side of tower. I'm not trying to pick a fight here, but this seems to defy the laws of physics. There would have to be nulls that were quite deep elsewhere in the pattern aside from the four azimuths you cited if those values were indeed valid. .
[Repeater-Builder] Repeater Audio samples
Hello, Was Wondering if anyone had a link to a site that had samples of talk thru Repeater traffic that would be considered good quality audio ? Maybe i am expecting too much but any of the ones around here that i have heard seem either Muffled or very Shrill, Listening on the input frequency the Audio seems quite reasonable but the Transmit Audio doesn't sound the same and seems a bit average. I realize that the Audio will vary due to the normal constraints of Radio atmospherics but i was hoping for something that doesn't sound like a very cheap tiny AM broadcast radio I would be really interested in discovering just how good normal Analogue speech can sound when it is being passed through something that is properly setup. Apologies if this has been answered before, i searched but couldn't find anything specific. Any info gratefully received, Cheers,
[Repeater-Builder] Quantar band limits
Hi everyone, I have a Motorola Quantar on the bench at the moment and I am having a slight issue with the programming of the unit. I have programmed plenty of these for public safety but this one is for amateur use on 70cm. The receiver, PA and exciter are all for UHF R1 (403-433Mhz) but the frequencies that need programming are: RX - 433.175 TX - 438.175 These are the base TX/RX values. When I program the codeplug in, I obviously get RX and TX errors showing up. Is there any way to trick the base into going a bit out of band to clear the errors? Normally I would just swap out the modules for the correct split and be done with it but this unit is a donation to the club and money for replacement modules isnt easy to come by. Thanks Greg
RE: [Repeater-Builder] DB-224 patterns on side of tower.
Jeff, Do I understand you to then also reject the idea that an omnidirectional colinear antenna, top-mounted on a basic metal pole, is bogus to claim 6 dBd gain in all directions at the same time? Nope, I didn't say that at all. The convention is to measure gain at the horizon. The extra power focused by a colinear at the horizon comes from high radiation angles considered useless, not some compass bearings at the expense of others. Right, that's gain realized due to compression of the elevation pattern. We're talking about azimuthal gain - the horizontal radiation pattern. --- Jeff WN3A
RE: [Repeater-Builder] DB-224 patterns on side of tower.
The gain figures I quoted are dBd reference the dipole mounted in place of the DB-224 before the test. The Scientific Atlanta turntable was connected to a circular strip chart and the amplitude measurements were recorded directly to the strip chart which was submitted. The turntable was mounted on top of a five story building with the signal source about 500 feet away mounted near the ground. The tilt angle between the source and antenna to be measured is to prevent ground reflections from entering into the results. Reducing, or compensating for, ground reflections is one of the biggest challenges on an antenna test range. I don't see your point on where the energy comes from to make the extra 3 dB gain, as it obviously comes from the 3 dB reduction in gain on the back side of the tower compared to an omni antenna. That's exactly the error I was trying to point out! If you add 3 dB somewhere, you don't subtract 3 dB from somewhere else. If you add 3 dB somewhere, you have to take away EVERYTHING from somewhere else. I tried to use the power divider as an example, but I guess that fell flat. In terms of power: +3 dB is 2x -3dB is 0.5x -infinity dB is 0x Maybe it's easier to understand in linear terms. Say you have a 100 watt transmitter. You feed it into a two-way power splitter (50%/50%). One output delivers 50 watts, the other output delivers 50 watts. Now we modify the power splitter so that one port delivers 100 watts. What's left coming out the other port? ZERO watts. ZERO watts is negative infinity dB gain. We added 3 dB to one port by going from 50 watts to 100 watts, but you can't subtract 3 dB from the other port to yield a valid result. If you had subtracted 3 dB, that would imply you went from 50 watts to 25 watts out that port. 100 watts out the hot port + 25 watts out the weak port = 125 watts, which obviously makes no sense because we only had 100 watts to start with. --- Jeff WN3A
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Quantar band limits
Hi Greg, Don't know if it's relevant, but I just programmed one for the 2 meter band, and when I entered the freq's, it gave me an error message. Can't remember exactly what it was, but I entered 'no', and it continued on as if nothing was wrong. Seems to work fine. Tim W5FN --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Greg gregm...@... wrote: Hi everyone, I have a Motorola Quantar on the bench at the moment and I am having a slight issue with the programming of the unit. I have programmed plenty of these for public safety but this one is for amateur use on 70cm. The receiver, PA and exciter are all for UHF R1 (403-433Mhz) but the frequencies that need programming are: RX - 433.175 TX - 438.175 These are the base TX/RX values. When I program the codeplug in, I obviously get RX and TX errors showing up. Is there any way to trick the base into going a bit out of band to clear the errors? Normally I would just swap out the modules for the correct split and be done with it but this unit is a donation to the club and money for replacement modules isnt easy to come by. Thanks Greg
Re: [Repeater-Builder] GM300 Crossband Ham repeater Bi-Directional
Nate, With all due respect, following your logic, if one careless mobile user lets his mic fall down in a seat crack, doesn't realize his PTT is stuck, and ties up your input for an hour driving through your coverage area, does it then follow that you ban all mobile users from your system? If I'm using a legal mobile repeater with an effective control scheme, I frankly don't give a rodent's rump if repeater owners welcome such operations on our systems or not. The idea that I'd hand over remote control of my amateur station to a repeater owner is a non-starter. There's also no longer any legal requirement or operational reason to identify a mobile repeater as a repeater in the ID. There are clean, legal, good amateur practice ways to do this, and if you're trying to communicate out of a reinforced concrete building used as a Red Cross shelter in a remote area, the better options you prefer may not be available. Calling the guy's GM300's a crossband junkpile was a little over the top. Then again, I tried to respond with positive suggestions, and he thought I was rude, too... ;^) 73, Paul, AE4KR - Original Message - From: Nate Duehr To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 5:07 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] GM300 Crossband Ham repeater Bi-Directional ...Call the repeater owner of the repeater you're THINKING about doing this to, and ask their opinion of it. If they say, Please don't do it. Respect their wishes. I can definitely say that in all the time I've run repeaters, the only two things I've had to DF were jammers, and mobile cross-band repeaters built into user rigs that were set up wrong... ...Are you going to give a way to control your cross-bander to the control operator of the repeater you're connecting it to? - Is your crossbander going to ID and let folks know it's a cross-bander so they can come beat you with a Wouff Hong if you lock up their system? - Does your FT-8800 properly ID, or are you ID'ing it saying you're operating through a repeater? ...There are just better options... lots better... ...Plenty of ways to do that without a cross-band junkpile
RE: [Repeater-Builder] DB-224 patterns on side of tower.
When a 224 antenna is mounted on a leg of a 25G, 45G, 55G towers, the patterns are close to what DB had predicted as allowances are made for the distance off of the leg of the tower. EG: 1/4, 1/2, wavelength, etc. On large face towers anything is possible. As an example I mounted a DB 224 on the face of a Forestry Look Tower per a DB Engineers instructions. There were deep nulls in the pattern. One nul at 5 miles from the tower (You could see the antenna), the repeater would not key up with a 100 watt mobile. Large towers and water towers need to be checked on site for coverage patterns. (We mounted this antenna in Feb. 1966) Good luck Fred W5VAY _ From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim Brown Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 5:47 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] DB-224 patterns on side of tower. Back when we had to submit an antenna pattern in order to get a repeater license for the ham bands, I mounted four elements of a DB-224 directly on one leg of a Rhon 25 tower and mounted the two tower sections on an antenna test pedestal and ran the pattern. With the antenna sections directly in line and pointed away from the tower, we had 9 dB gain in the favored direction, 6 dB gain at plus and minus 90 deg, and 3 dB gain off the back side of the tower. The plot was perfectly round with the 3 dB offset for the center point of the plot. 73 - Jim W5ZIT --- On Tue, 6/30/09, tahrens301 tahr...@swtexas.net wrote: From: tahrens301 tahr...@swtexas.net Subject: [Repeater-Builder] DB-224 patterns on side of tower. To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, June 30, 2009, 2:35 PM Hi Folks, We are putting up the DB-224 on the side of the tower, which is one of those large 3 legged towers. (like you see at microwave telephone sites). I have the DB-products data sheet on the 224, and it has some plots for side mounting on the tower. The plot in question is the 224E (all in line, pointed away from the tower). According to DBprod, it would give the appropriate pattern for our desired area. However, one of the old salts here (who has final say-so) says that you really have to put some left and right angulation on the elements to get that pattern. I guess the real question is how positioning on the side of the large tower affects the pattern - if the elements are directly perpendicular to the tower leg, versus having some rotation on the leg. I'm thinking that we will probably just have to experiment with what we get per old-salt's method see how it works. Anybody have any other ideas? Thanks, Tim W5FN
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Quantar band limits
Since you're going above frequency specs, is the Quantar anything like a MSF5000 where you need to adjust a VCO to cover the new range? Greg wrote: Hi everyone, I have a Motorola Quantar on the bench at the moment and I am having a slight issue with the programming of the unit. I have programmed plenty of these for public safety but this one is for amateur use on 70cm. The receiver, PA and exciter are all for UHF R1 (403-433Mhz) but the frequencies that need programming are: RX - 433.175 TX - 438.175 These are the base TX/RX values. When I program the codeplug in, I obviously get RX and TX errors showing up. Is there any way to trick the base into going a bit out of band to clear the errors? Normally I would just swap out the modules for the correct split and be done with it but this unit is a donation to the club and money for replacement modules isnt easy to come by. Thanks Greg
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Repeater Audio samples
While I don't have any recordings for you, I can assure you that ALL machines I build have audio responses that sound as close to simplex as possible. When I am finished with a machine, I have a helper in another room talk into the repeater's input while I toggle my receiver between the receiver's input and output frequencies. If they don't sound REALLY close, the machine doesn't leave my shop. There are many things that can lead to distortion in a repeater's audio path. Among these are discriminator response, PL filtering, (if used) controller bandwidth and distortion, and exciter frequency response. The most likely causes of audio response issues are the controller and exciter modulator. Since you describe the audio response as either 'tinny' or 'muffled' that tells me that the audio input response of the controller is not configured properly. *Most* controllers can be used with both discriminator audio or de-emphasized audio. This is often jumper selectable, but sometimes component changes are necessary. I will leave it to the reader to do further research on what these two type of audio are, but suffice to say that most controllers expect to see discriminator audio and have on-board de-emphasis circuitry to make the audio response flat again. If the repeater in question has a 'boomy' sound to it, this is likely a sign of too much low-end audio response. The audio is more than likely being de-emphasized twice inside the system. The best and easiest way to fix this is to remove the extra de-emphasis circuitry. This can sometimes be done on the input circuitry of the controller. If it can't be done there, you may have to look at your Rx audio source. It is common practice to those who don't know any better to use audio from the speaker. It's convenient and it squelches when the repeater is not active. This is a BAD idea. Not only is the audio WAYYY to loud from a speaker's output, it's bound to the volume control. If someone is at the repeater site and decides he wants to listen in on a conversation, there goes the audio setting for the repeater!! Speaker audio is a good example of de-emphasized audio. If the repeater audio sounds 'tinny' it has too many high frequency components. In this case, an additional stage of de-emphasis is required. Again, the easiest way to add this is in the controller's audio circuitry. If the audio is 'muffled', it is probably being processed (compressed) too hard. Inside a transmitter there is circuitry that keeps the audio tamed down and in check to avoid overmodulaton and other band things from happening. This circuitry can only do so much. If it is getting hit with an audio source that is WAYYY to loud, it simply slams it to the ground, hence making it sound bad. This is an over-simplification, but more information on audio processing and how to *properly* set it up can be found in the repeater-builder.com site.: http://www.repeater-builder.com/tech-info/audioprocessing.html (This may be a bit over your head)[sorry Jeff] http://www.repeater-builder.com/tech-info/fmtheorydiscussion.html Sounded like a simple enough question didn't it!! Enjoy, Scott Scott Zimmerman Amateur Radio Call N3XCC 474 Barnett Road Boswell, PA 15531 tait700 wrote: Hello, Was Wondering if anyone had a link to a site that had samples of talk thru Repeater traffic that would be considered good quality audio ? Maybe i am expecting too much but any of the ones around here that i have heard seem either Muffled or very Shrill, Listening on the input frequency the Audio seems quite reasonable but the Transmit Audio doesn't sound the same and seems a bit average. I realize that the Audio will vary due to the normal constraints of Radio atmospherics but i was hoping for something that doesn't sound like a very cheap tiny AM broadcast radio I would be really interested in discovering just how good normal Analogue speech can sound when it is being passed through something that is properly setup. Apologies if this has been answered before, i searched but couldn't find anything specific. Any info gratefully received, Cheers, Yahoo! Groups Links No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.13.2/2214 - Release Date: 07/02/09 05:54:00
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Repeater Audio samples
At 03:22 AM 07/02/09, you wrote: Hello, Was Wondering if anyone had a link to a site that had samples of talk thru Repeater traffic that would be considered good quality audio ? Maybe i am expecting too much but any of the ones around here that i have heard seem either Muffled or very Shrill, Listening on the input frequency the Audio seems quite reasonable but the Transmit Audio doesn't sound the same and seems a bit average. I realize that the Audio will vary due to the normal constraints of Radio atmospherics but i was hoping for something that doesn't sound like a very cheap tiny AM broadcast radio I would be really interested in discovering just how good normal Analogue speech can sound when it is being passed through something that is properly setup. Apologies if this has been answered before, i searched but couldn't find anything specific. Any info gratefully received, Cheers, Where is around here ? From what you are saying it sounds like whomever set up the repeater(s) does not understand de-emphasis and pre-emphasis. From the article at http://www.repeater-builder.com/tech-info/flataudio.html ... Another problem that rears its ugly head unless you know the equipment you are working on intimately... If you pick off raw (i.e. not de-emphasized) audio from the receiver discriminator and pipe it into the microphone jack of a transmitter you will end up with an extra level of pre-emphasis (commonly called double pre-emphasis) that will cause the audio to sound very tinny or shrill (take your home hi-fi, tune to a talk radio station, center the bass and the treble controls, note the audio characteristics, then crank the bass control to minimum and the treble to maximum - and mentally double or triple the overall effect). On a true FM transmitter you can sometimes bypass the pre-emphasis network, on a phase modulated transmitter there is no way around it without adding a de-emphasis network in front of it to compensate. This is why many repeater controllers have a built in de-emphasis network that can be jumpered into the circuit or jumpered out as needed. Likewise, picking audio from the receiver after the de-emphasis network (in some receivers that point is after the volume control and the audio muting part of the squelch circuit) and piping it into a true FM transmitter modulator can produce audio with extra amount of de-emphasis (commonly called double de-emphasis) resulting in a very muffled, bassy sound with no high frequencies (same example as above, but crank the bass control to maximum and the treble to minimum - and mentally double or triple the overall effect). Either of the above two situations is instantly recognizable by an experienced ear. Mike WA6ILQ
Re: [Repeater-Builder] IMPORTANT - large amount of stolen equipment recovered - is some yours?
The story was also featured in Radio World Online, which is a newsletter that comes out usually on Fridays, but because of the holiday weekend coming up it was sent out today. Here's the link: http://www.rwonline.com/article/83246 Don, KD9PT - Original Message - From: Mike Morris WA6ILQ wa6...@gmail.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 1:04 AM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] IMPORTANT - large amount of stolen equipment recovered - is some yours? At 03:19 PM 07/01/09, you wrote: Not that impressive really. Whats all this crap worth, maybe $20k? Well, item 105 is a VHF MTR2000 repeater. Think that might be worth something ? Item 117 on the list is a box of 123 handhelds. Pages 4-7 list them. There are a number of HT1000s and HT750s and at least one XTS. Item 202 is a Sinclair Q3220E UHF duplexer. Tessco catalog shows $1100 as the price. I could go on... Not really that much money. You would be of a different opinion if it was your XTS that disappeared, or your hilltop repeater that evaporated. I posted the newsletter fragment so that those that HAVE had stuff disappear might take a look at the serial number lists and maybe recover some property. This mailing list has over 4500 members, and the published story specifically encouraged re-mailing it to others. Hopefully the VCSO detective will get some phone calls or emails stating you've got my equipment. And stuff HAS disappeared from mountaintop sites over the years. I've seen photos of buildings that have been broken into - some were as simple as backing a truck trailer hitch into the door and driving away with it. Others were broken into by drilling out the door locks. The perps have gone through the building walls in several cases. FM broadcast parts pop up in rather strange places these days for cheap since theres really not much legitimate commercial market for a boat-anchor transmitter. A complete 1kw FM broadcast transmitter is unusual enough when it is recovered in a pile of land mobile radios. Plus the newsletter, while run by a ham, is oriented towards the broadcast community, and Mr. Gonset naturally chose to focus on the broadcast equipment. And there is plenty of market in rural areas, and in Mexico. You'd think someone smart/slick enough to get away with stealing that much gear would likely be smart enough to not get busted by the FCC for screwing with mall cops. True, and there is no way to tell what goes through some peoples minds... Some of the comments on this news page are interesting. http://www.venturacountystar.com/news/2009/jun/30/to-malls-radio-frequencies-jammed-man-arrested/#comments Did this guy sell LM radio/programming for a living? Don't know. One local gentleman thinks that he works (worked?) for a local TV station. Mike WA6ILQ Yahoo! Groups Links
RE: [Repeater-Builder] GM300 Crossband Ham repeater Bi-Directional
Scott, Nate, Paul, Written words can seem more harsh than intended. This group does a great service to repeater builders and owners. I have benefited from it. And I believe any repeater owner, no matter how knowledgeable, can benefit. Many problems are solved. Much assistance is given with nothing demanded or expected in return. John AF4PD -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Paul Plack Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 4:58 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] GM300 Crossband Ham repeater Bi-Directional Nate, With all due respect, following your logic, if one careless mobile user lets his mic fall down in a seat crack, doesn't realize his PTT is stuck, and ties up your input for an hour driving through your coverage area, does it then follow that you ban all mobile users from your system? If I'm using a legal mobile repeater with an effective control scheme, I frankly don't give a rodent's rump if repeater owners welcome such operations on our systems or not. The idea that I'd hand over remote control of my amateur station to a repeater owner is a non-starter. There's also no longer any legal requirement or operational reason to identify a mobile repeater as a repeater in the ID. There are clean, legal, good amateur practice ways to do this, and if you're trying to communicate out of a reinforced concrete building used as a Red Cross shelter in a remote area, the better options you prefer may not be available. Calling the guy's GM300's a crossband junkpile was a little over the top. Then again, I tried to respond with positive suggestions, and he thought I was rude, too... ;^) 73, Paul, AE4KR - Original Message - From: Nate Duehr mailto:n...@natetech.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 5:07 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] GM300 Crossband Ham repeater Bi-Directional ...Call the repeater owner of the repeater you're THINKING about doing this to, and ask their opinion of it. If they say, Please don't do it. Respect their wishes. I can definitely say that in all the time I've run repeaters, the only two things I've had to DF were jammers, and mobile cross-band repeaters built into user rigs that were set up wrong... ...Are you going to give a way to control your cross-bander to the control operator of the repeater you're connecting it to? - Is your crossbander going to ID and let folks know it's a cross-bander so they can come beat you with a Wouff Hong if you lock up their system? - Does your FT-8800 properly ID, or are you ID'ing it saying you're operating through a repeater? ...There are just better options... lots better... ...Plenty of ways to do that without a cross-band junkpile... . http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=104168/grpspId=1705063108/ msgId=92358/stime=1246489822/nc1=4025291/nc2=5689660/nc3=5349275 __ NOD32 4209 (20090702) Information __ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com
RE: [Repeater-Builder] GM300 Crossband Ham repeater Bi-Directional
Paul, I was going to respond to this original post myself yesterday. I find these days that a lot of hams don't use repeaters as much as we used to 10 or 15 years or more ago, due to the use of cell phones and to some extent the internet. But perhaps the fact that there has always been an air or attitude that permeates some repeaters, more or less created by control freaks. Not control ops. Heck, where do you go around here why I live and hear a control operator. You can't find an OPERATOR even on one most of the time. And the repeaters will be used even less if the average guy feels he has not only Part 97 but someone else's 'set' of rules. You can keep the latter. I also noted the attempt to insult various equipment. That is simply ignorant. I have made thousands of contacts on HF, VHF, etc. and not one person I ever talked to has ever known that I all I was using was two soup cans and a string. Are you going to tell me that my crystal controlled Midland is not welcomed on someone's machine? That would mean only 2 people left on that one, the control op and his wife. .better ease up boys. A repeater owner may spend $10,000 on the most current, contemporary equipment he can find, and with the best intentions in mind it may still sound and work just terrible. I have seen clubs do just that. By the same token with a little know how and patience a terrific sounding machine can be built with stone knives and bear skins. Who would know? Lastly, was this also the thread where someone was ranting about our loosing spectrum if the FCC decided to take away more of our frequencies? Sorry if this was not, but which frequencies are being taken, which WERE taken ( and please don't go off on that 220 to UPS thing.). Perhaps I missed something while building a cross band junkpile.Over to you Paul and YOUR Junkpile ( which by the way sounds just fine to me) .take it away. - Mike From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of John Transue Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 1:48 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] GM300 Crossband Ham repeater Bi-Directional Nate, With all due respect, following your logic, if one careless mobile user lets his mic fall down in a seat crack, doesn't realize his PTT is stuck, and ties up your input for an hour driving through your coverage area, does it then follow that you ban all mobile users from your system? If I'm using a legal mobile repeater with an effective control scheme, I frankly don't give a rodent's rump if repeater owners welcome such operations on our systems or not. The idea that I'd hand over remote control of my amateur station to a repeater owner is a non-starter. There's also no longer any legal requirement or operational reason to identify a mobile repeater as a repeater in the ID. There are clean, legal, good amateur practice ways to do this, and if you're trying to communicate out of a reinforced concrete building used as a Red Cross shelter in a remote area, the better options you prefer may not be available. Calling the guy's GM300's a crossband junkpile was a little over the top. Then again, I tried to respond with positive suggestions, and he thought I was rude, too... 73, Paul, AE4KR - Original Message - From: Nate mailto:n...@natetech.com Duehr To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 5:07 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] GM300 Crossband Ham repeater Bi-Directional ...Call the repeater owner of the repeater you're THINKING about doing this to, and ask their opinion of it. If they say, Please don't do it. Respect their wishes. I can definitely say that in all the time I've run repeaters, the only two things I've had to DF were jammers, and mobile cross-band repeaters built into user rigs that were set up wrong... ...Are you going to give a way to control your cross-bander to the control operator of the repeater you're connecting it to? - Is your crossbander going to ID and let folks know it's a cross-bander so they can come beat you with a Wouff Hong if you lock up their system? - Does your FT-8800 properly ID, or are you ID'ing it saying you're operating through a repeater? ...There are just better options... lots better... ...Plenty of ways to do that without a cross-band junkpile... . http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=104168/grpspId=1705063108/msgId= 92358/stime=1246489822/nc1=4025291/nc2=5689660/nc3=5349275
[Repeater-Builder] Re: IMPORTANT - large amount of stolen equipment recovered - is some yours?
This is really rather frightening. Many of us have similar collections of gear, and I'm wondering on what basis it was seized. I don't remember anything in the Constitution about seizure of potentially stolen property. I hope the stuff is his and he gets a really huge settlement (and that the folks he was jamming get the same from him). The idea that a government minion can simply decide that you have too much radio gear and take it seems rather onerous. 'JK --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Mike Morris WA6ILQ wa6...@... wrote: Recently the FCC busted a local jammer and when his residence was searched they found a treasure trove. There are over 200 pieces of equipment involved including laptops, desktops, over 120 handhelds and several repeaters. And broadcast equipment including a commercial grade FM transmitter. If anybody has serial numbers on file that matches anything on the lists mentioned below I think that the Ventura County Sheriff's Department would like to hear from you - contact Detective Jon Smith at (805) 494-8216 or via e-mail at jon.smith (at) ventura (dot) org The snippet below is from the CGC Communicator, a broadcast industry weekly newsletter published by Robert F. Gonsett, W6VR, cgc (at) cgc333 (dot) connectnet (dot) com, Copyright 2009, Communications General® Corporation (CGC). Reprinted with permission, and the newsletter has given permission for others to do likewise. No additional permission is needed. ** LIST OF POTENTIALLY STOLEN EQUIPMENT IN THE BONDY CASE The Ventura County Sheriff's Department has prepared its list of potentially stolen radio equipment in the Kevin Bondy case. Mr. Bondy is accused of jamming some southern California radio frequencies as discussed in recent CGC Communicator newsletters. A police search of his residence turned up an extraordinary amount of potentially stolen radio gear. Your help is needed. Is any of this equipment yours? Would you copy this story to others in the land-mobile and broadcast industries, particularly to equipment dealers and publications? If some or all of this equipment is stolen, the owners need to contact the Ventura County Sheriff pronto. Items #120 - 123 involve FM broadcast equipment; the rest is land-mobile gear (including repeaters) with a few miscellaneous items mixed in (e.g. computers, CB amateur radio gear). The first URL takes you to the list. The second URL shows pictures of the FM broadcast equipment and gives contact information for the Ventura County Sheriff. Communications General Corp. has been in touch with Broadcast Electronics concerning Item #120, the solid state 1,000 watt FM broadcast transmitter. Unfortunately, the serial number is a bit outdated for their records, but perhaps you or an equipment dealer would have a record of the sales transaction. Thanks for helping by looking over the equipment list and forwarding this story to others. Equipment list: http://earthsignals.com/add_CGC/Oaks_Mall_09-5771.pdf Photographs of the FM broadcast equipment: http://earthsignals.com/add_CGC/Letters/Stolen%20Equipment.htm Background information on Mr. Bondy: http://www.fcc.gov/eb/FieldNotices/2003/DOC-290813A1.html **
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: IMPORTANT - large amount of stolen equipment recovered - is some yours?
The FCC sucked up *all* his gear vs just the gear he was using to break the law, which I believe is allowed since the defendant was a licensed operator of some sort. While my radio geek side likes this, my US citizen side kinda freaks out at the idea... The problem with the $24k FCC fine is that $24k only went to the FCC. The affected mall could file a civil case, but thats not really worth the effort unless the guy has easily accessed money after the FCC gets done taking their chunk. The real question is - what do laptop/desktop computers have to do with some moron screwing with mall cops? You could get *really* outside and say he looked up the frequencies with said computers, but thats about it. Something about this story doesn't quite make sense... JS Jeff Kincaid wrote: This is really rather frightening. Many of us have similar collections of gear, and I'm wondering on what basis it was seized. I don't remember anything in the Constitution about seizure of potentially stolen property. I hope the stuff is his and he gets a really huge settlement (and that the folks he was jamming get the same from him). The idea that a government minion can simply decide that you have too much radio gear and take it seems rather onerous. 'JK --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com, Mike Morris WA6ILQ wa6...@... wrote: Recently the FCC busted a local jammer and when his residence was searched they found a treasure trove. There are over 200 pieces of equipment involved including laptops, desktops, over 120 handhelds and several repeaters. And broadcast equipment including a commercial grade FM transmitter. If anybody has serial numbers on file that matches anything on the lists mentioned below I think that the Ventura County Sheriff's Department would like to hear from you - contact Detective Jon Smith at (805) 494-8216 or via e-mail at jon.smith (at) ventura (dot) org The snippet below is from the CGC Communicator, a broadcast industry weekly newsletter published by Robert F. Gonsett, W6VR, cgc (at) cgc333 (dot) connectnet (dot) com, Copyright 2009, Communications General® Corporation (CGC). Reprinted with permission, and the newsletter has given permission for others to do likewise. No additional permission is needed. ** LIST OF POTENTIALLY STOLEN EQUIPMENT IN THE BONDY CASE The Ventura County Sheriff's Department has prepared its list of potentially stolen radio equipment in the Kevin Bondy case. Mr. Bondy is accused of jamming some southern California radio frequencies as discussed in recent CGC Communicator newsletters. A police search of his residence turned up an extraordinary amount of potentially stolen radio gear. Your help is needed. Is any of this equipment yours? Would you copy this story to others in the land-mobile and broadcast industries, particularly to equipment dealers and publications? If some or all of this equipment is stolen, the owners need to contact the Ventura County Sheriff pronto. Items #120 - 123 involve FM broadcast equipment; the rest is land-mobile gear (including repeaters) with a few miscellaneous items mixed in (e.g. computers, CB amateur radio gear). The first URL takes you to the list. The second URL shows pictures of the FM broadcast equipment and gives contact information for the Ventura County Sheriff. Communications General Corp. has been in touch with Broadcast Electronics concerning Item #120, the solid state 1,000 watt FM broadcast transmitter. Unfortunately, the serial number is a bit outdated for their records, but perhaps you or an equipment dealer would have a record of the sales transaction. Thanks for helping by looking over the equipment list and forwarding this story to others. Equipment list: http://earthsignals.com/add_CGC/Oaks_Mall_09-5771.pdf http://earthsignals.com/add_CGC/Oaks_Mall_09-5771.pdf Photographs of the FM broadcast equipment: http://earthsignals.com/add_CGC/Letters/Stolen%20Equipment.htm http://earthsignals.com/add_CGC/Letters/Stolen%20Equipment.htm Background information on Mr. Bondy: http://www.fcc.gov/eb/FieldNotices/2003/DOC-290813A1.html http://www.fcc.gov/eb/FieldNotices/2003/DOC-290813A1.html **
Re: [Repeater-Builder] DB-224 patterns on side of tower.
- Original Message - From: Jeff DePolo To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 7:39 AM Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] DB-224 patterns on side of tower. ...that's gain realized due to compression of the elevation pattern. We're talking about azimuthal gain - the horizontal radiation pattern. --- Jeff WN3A . Right! And they're not mutally exclusive, as evidenced in stacked yagis. You don't lose the gain achieved through compressing the elevation pattern when you add gain in one cardinal direction at the expense of another. If we start with a vertical colinear dipole array, with an otherwise omnidirectional gain pattern of 6 dBd, and overlay a 3 dB azimuth offset induced by interaction with a support leg which behaves roughly like a yagi's reflector, we should still expect the average horizon field strength of any two bearings 180º apart, whether they're north/south, east/west, 41º/221º, etc., to still be about 6 dBd, not zero. If the dipoles in the colinear array were stacked 2-element yagis, just a driven element and a reflector, the same thing would happen (only with much sharper backside nulls due to the properly-sized reflector). - Paul, AE4KR
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Repeater Audio samples
If I remember I will record a net on one of my repeaters and put it on youtube. The repeaters I set up are so natural you can barely tell the repeater audio from the input audio. My current repeater is a Motorola MSF 5000 using it's stock controller and the audio is quite good. I usually retard the repeated audio about 1 tenth of a kc in deviation so there is less chance for clipping which results in muddy audio. WB5OXQ - Original Message - From: Mike Morris WA6ILQ To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 10:55 AM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Repeater Audio samples At 03:22 AM 07/02/09, you wrote: Hello, Was Wondering if anyone had a link to a site that had samples of talk thru Repeater traffic that would be considered good quality audio ? Maybe i am expecting too much but any of the ones around here that i have heard seem either Muffled or very Shrill, Listening on the input frequency the Audio seems quite reasonable but the Transmit Audio doesn't sound the same and seems a bit average. I realize that the Audio will vary due to the normal constraints of Radio atmospherics but i was hoping for something that doesn't sound like a very cheap tiny AM broadcast radio I would be really interested in discovering just how good normal Analogue speech can sound when it is being passed through something that is properly setup. Apologies if this has been answered before, i searched but couldn't find anything specific. Any info gratefully received, Cheers, Where is around here ? From what you are saying it sounds like whomever set up the repeater(s) does not understand de-emphasis and pre-emphasis. From the article at http://www.repeater-builder.com/tech-info/flataudio.html ... Another problem that rears its ugly head unless you know the equipment you are working on intimately... If you pick off raw (i.e. not de-emphasized) audio from the receiver discriminator and pipe it into the microphone jack of a transmitter you will end up with an extra level of pre-emphasis (commonly called double pre-emphasis) that will cause the audio to sound very tinny or shrill (take your home hi-fi, tune to a talk radio station, center the bass and the treble controls, note the audio characteristics, then crank the bass control to minimum and the treble to maximum - and mentally double or triple the overall effect). On a true FM transmitter you can sometimes bypass the pre-emphasis network, on a phase modulated transmitter there is no way around it without adding a de-emphasis network in front of it to compensate. This is why many repeater controllers have a built in de-emphasis network that can be jumpered into the circuit or jumpered out as needed. Likewise, picking audio from the receiver after the de-emphasis network (in some receivers that point is after the volume control and the audio muting part of the squelch circuit) and piping it into a true FM transmitter modulator can produce audio with extra amount of de-emphasis (commonly called double de-emphasis) resulting in a very muffled, bassy sound with no high frequencies (same example as above, but crank the bass control to maximum and the treble to minimum - and mentally double or triple the overall effect). Either of the above two situations is instantly recognizable by an experienced ear. Mike WA6ILQ
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: IMPORTANT - large amount of stolen equipment recovered - is some yours?
Are you kidding? The politicians don't care about the Constitution, to them it is some totally irrelevant old document. In other words, they ignore it and do whatever they want. Richard www.n7tgb.net -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Kincaid Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 1:04 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: IMPORTANT - large amount of stolen equipment recovered - is some yours? This is really rather frightening. Many of us have similar collections of gear, and I'm wondering on what basis it was seized. I don't remember anything in the Constitution about seizure of potentially stolen property. I hope the stuff is his and he gets a really huge settlement (and that the folks he was jamming get the same from him). The idea that a government minion can simply decide that you have too much radio gear and take it seems rather onerous. 'JK --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Mike Morris WA6ILQ wa6...@... wrote: Recently the FCC busted a local jammer and when his residence was searched they found a treasure trove. There are over 200 pieces of equipment involved including laptops, desktops, over 120 handhelds and several repeaters. And broadcast equipment including a commercial grade FM transmitter. If anybody has serial numbers on file that matches anything on the lists mentioned below I think that the Ventura County Sheriff's Department would like to hear from you - contact Detective Jon Smith at (805) 494-8216 or via e-mail at jon.smith (at) ventura (dot) org The snippet below is from the CGC Communicator, a broadcast industry weekly newsletter published by Robert F. Gonsett, W6VR, cgc (at) cgc333 (dot) connectnet (dot) com, Copyright 2009, Communications GeneralR Corporation (CGC). Reprinted with permission, and the newsletter has given permission for others to do likewise. No additional permission is needed. ** LIST OF POTENTIALLY STOLEN EQUIPMENT IN THE BONDY CASE The Ventura County Sheriff's Department has prepared its list of potentially stolen radio equipment in the Kevin Bondy case. Mr. Bondy is accused of jamming some southern California radio frequencies as discussed in recent CGC Communicator newsletters. A police search of his residence turned up an extraordinary amount of potentially stolen radio gear. Your help is needed. Is any of this equipment yours? Would you copy this story to others in the land-mobile and broadcast industries, particularly to equipment dealers and publications? If some or all of this equipment is stolen, the owners need to contact the Ventura County Sheriff pronto. Items #120 - 123 involve FM broadcast equipment; the rest is land-mobile gear (including repeaters) with a few miscellaneous items mixed in (e.g. computers, CB amateur radio gear). The first URL takes you to the list. The second URL shows pictures of the FM broadcast equipment and gives contact information for the Ventura County Sheriff. Communications General Corp. has been in touch with Broadcast Electronics concerning Item #120, the solid state 1,000 watt FM broadcast transmitter. Unfortunately, the serial number is a bit outdated for their records, but perhaps you or an equipment dealer would have a record of the sales transaction. Thanks for helping by looking over the equipment list and forwarding this story to others. Equipment list: http://earthsignals.com/add_CGC/Oaks_Mall_09-5771.pdf Photographs of the FM broadcast equipment: http://earthsignals.com/add_CGC/Letters/Stolen%20Equipment.htm Background information on Mr. Bondy: http://www.fcc.gov/eb/FieldNotices/2003/DOC-290813A1.html ** Yahoo! Groups Links
[Repeater-Builder] WTT: HT600/Genesis radios
I picked up five HT600's on ebay last week and low and behold they are the wrong split for what I would like to use them for. They are 403-438 and I need 438-470. I have already converted them all to 6 channels and can program them to suit your needs if you like. They all work but three of them are missing the rubber monitor buttons above the PTT switch. They look ok and the cases are solid What I am looking for is other Genesis series radios in the proper split. I would be willing to trade for HT600's, P200's, or MT1000's. I would also offer all five for a 99 channel 438-470 MT1000 or for a similar split 16 or 32 channel maxtrac. Anybody interested? I am also looking for small parts for the Genesis series of radios. Specifically I am looking for those monitor buttons I mentioned above and their respective retaining plate. I have other radios I would like to spruce up a bit. Albert KI4ORI
Re: [Repeater-Builder] GM300 Crossband Ham repeater Bi-Directional
What you are making is a remote base. Very popular in some areas back in the 60's and 70's. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: Scott Yeager To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 8:51 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] GM300 Crossband Ham repeater Bi-Directional The entire point of this link or repeater, whatever you'd liek to call it is so I can sit in my living room, dining room, toilet, garage, back yard, where ever on my property I'd like to be and talk to my friends in the radio club.
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: IMPORTANT - large amount of stolen equipment recovered - is some yours?
Hate to say it ,but the last 2 posts make it sound like the guy was doing nothing. Not sure if they warned him,but when you jam a legal freq ,this is what happens,sooner or later. There was another jammer out there ,i think that removal of gear and fines didn't stop him,and was sent to the slammer. Some may think this wrong,but if you didn't ,soon would have what the CB'ers had back in the late 70's. Self-destruction !! Jerry W8KQ --- On Thu, 7/2/09, Richard slott...@gbis.com wrote: From: Richard slott...@gbis.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: IMPORTANT - large amount of stolen equipment recovered - is some yours? To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, July 2, 2009, 8:48 PM Are you kidding? The politicians don't care about the Constitution, to them it is some totally irrelevant old document. In other words, they ignore it and do whatever they want. Richard www.n7tgb.net -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:Repeater-Builder@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Jeff Kincaid Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 1:04 PM To: Repeater-Builder@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: IMPORTANT - large amount of stolen equipment recovered - is some yours? This is really rather frightening. Many of us have similar collections of gear, and I'm wondering on what basis it was seized. I don't remember anything in the Constitution about seizure of potentially stolen property. I hope the stuff is his and he gets a really huge settlement (and that the folks he was jamming get the same from him). The idea that a government minion can simply decide that you have too much radio gear and take it seems rather onerous. 'JK --- In Repeater-Builder@ yahoogroups. com, Mike Morris WA6ILQ wa6...@... wrote: Recently the FCC busted a local jammer and when his residence was searched they found a treasure trove. There are over 200 pieces of equipment involved including laptops, desktops, over 120 handhelds and several repeaters. And broadcast equipment including a commercial grade FM transmitter. If anybody has serial numbers on file that matches anything on the lists mentioned below I think that the Ventura County Sheriff's Department would like to hear from you - contact Detective Jon Smith at (805) 494-8216 or via e-mail at jon.smith (at) ventura (dot) org The snippet below is from the CGC Communicator, a broadcast industry weekly newsletter published by Robert F. Gonsett, W6VR, cgc (at) cgc333 (dot) connectnet (dot) com, Copyright 2009, Communications GeneralR Corporation (CGC). Reprinted with permission, and the newsletter has given permission for others to do likewise. No additional permission is needed. *** * * * * * * * LIST OF POTENTIALLY STOLEN EQUIPMENT IN THE BONDY CASE The Ventura County Sheriff's Department has prepared its list of potentially stolen radio equipment in the Kevin Bondy case. Mr. Bondy is accused of jamming some southern California radio frequencies as discussed in recent CGC Communicator newsletters. A police search of his residence turned up an extraordinary amount of potentially stolen radio gear. Your help is needed. Is any of this equipment yours? Would you copy this story to others in the land-mobile and broadcast industries, particularly to equipment dealers and publications? If some or all of this equipment is stolen, the owners need to contact the Ventura County Sheriff pronto. Items #120 - 123 involve FM broadcast equipment; the rest is land-mobile gear (including repeaters) with a few miscellaneous items mixed in (e.g. computers, CB amateur radio gear). The first URL takes you to the list. The second URL shows pictures of the FM broadcast equipment and gives contact information for the Ventura County Sheriff. Communications General Corp. has been in touch with Broadcast Electronics concerning Item #120, the solid state 1,000 watt FM broadcast transmitter. Unfortunately, the serial number is a bit outdated for their records, but perhaps you or an equipment dealer would have a record of the sales transaction. Thanks for helping by looking over the equipment list and forwarding this story to others. Equipment list: http://earthsignals .com/add_ CGC/Oaks_ Mall_09-5771. pdf Photographs of the FM broadcast equipment: http://earthsignals .com/add_ CGC/Letters/ Stolen%20Equipme nt.htm Background information on Mr. Bondy: http://www.fcc. gov/eb/FieldNoti ces/2003/ DOC-290813A1. html *** * * * * * * * - - -- Yahoo! Groups Links
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Repeater Audio samples
Hello Scott, Mike, and Jim. Thank you for taking the time to Reply, i am grateful for all the info supplied and will be studying the answers given. I should have stated in the original post that i am in Austraila, and the Repeaters that were mentioned are in commercial service full time. I have a small unit comprising of two Mobiles with a duplexer tieing them together to a common Aerial and although the receive audio is presentable the TX seems to me to be pretty substandard. When the controller is enabled for Simplex the Audio being repeated is very good indeed, all most perfect but when it is being relayed straight thru it is pretty awful. I thought it might just be the way i have set this up but sticky beaking on the input / Output channels of the Commercial Ones in service here seem to have the same problem. Hopefully with the info given i will be able decipher what the issue is with my setup and sort out a solution. Thanks again to all concerned, Regards Chris S. In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Jim WB5OXQ inb Waco, TX wb5...@... wrote: If I remember I will record a net on one of my repeaters and put it on youtube. The repeaters I set up are so natural you can barely tell the repeater audio from the input audio. My current repeater is a Motorola MSF 5000 using it's stock controller and the audio is quite good. I usually retard the repeated audio about 1 tenth of a kc in deviation so there is less chance for clipping which results in muddy audio. WB5OXQ - Original Message - From: Mike Morris WA6ILQ To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 10:55 AM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Repeater Audio samples At 03:22 AM 07/02/09, you wrote: Hello, Was Wondering if anyone had a link to a site that had samples of talk thru Repeater traffic that would be considered good quality audio ? Maybe i am expecting too much but any of the ones around here that i have heard seem either Muffled or very Shrill, Listening on the input frequency the Audio seems quite reasonable but the Transmit Audio doesn't sound the same and seems a bit average. I realize that the Audio will vary due to the normal constraints of Radio atmospherics but i was hoping for something that doesn't sound like a very cheap tiny AM broadcast radio I would be really interested in discovering just how good normal Analogue speech can sound when it is being passed through something that is properly setup. Apologies if this has been answered before, i searched but couldn't find anything specific. Any info gratefully received, Cheers, Where is around here ? From what you are saying it sounds like whomever set up the repeater(s) does not understand de-emphasis and pre-emphasis. From the article at http://www.repeater-builder.com/tech-info/flataudio.html ... Another problem that rears its ugly head unless you know the equipment you are working on intimately... If you pick off raw (i.e. not de-emphasized) audio from the receiver discriminator and pipe it into the microphone jack of a transmitter you will end up with an extra level of pre-emphasis (commonly called double pre-emphasis) that will cause the audio to sound very tinny or shrill (take your home hi-fi, tune to a talk radio station, center the bass and the treble controls, note the audio characteristics, then crank the bass control to minimum and the treble to maximum - and mentally double or triple the overall effect). On a true FM transmitter you can sometimes bypass the pre-emphasis network, on a phase modulated transmitter there is no way around it without adding a de-emphasis network in front of it to compensate. This is why many repeater controllers have a built in de-emphasis network that can be jumpered into the circuit or jumpered out as needed. Likewise, picking audio from the receiver after the de-emphasis network (in some receivers that point is after the volume control and the audio muting part of the squelch circuit) and piping it into a true FM transmitter modulator can produce audio with extra amount of de-emphasis (commonly called double de-emphasis) resulting in a very muffled, bassy sound with no high frequencies (same example as above, but crank the bass control to maximum and the treble to minimum - and mentally double or triple the overall effect). Either of the above two situations is instantly recognizable by an experienced ear. Mike WA6ILQ
