Re: [Repeater-Builder] down tilt
Thanks Kevin-you are right---my noticed downtilt meant to say noticed uptilt as the terraine inland from this site increased in HASL . Thanks again Kevin Regards Bradley Glen --- Kevin Custer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hold on there Bradley... An antenna that is built for a higher frequency than what you are inputting will exhibit downtilt in its original orientation. Kevin bradley glen wrote: Hi All I agree with Kevin and have used this in the commercial field where the anteena was originallt cut higher than was to be used. I mounted the antenna upside-down and had good results-with some noticed downtilt which was good for the application .On the same token keep in mind that most of the efficiency of the collinear design lies at the first radiating element - reduced radiation as one extends to the end of the antenna. Good luck Regards Bradley glen zs5swt /zs5wt --- Chuck Kelsey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks for saving me all the typing ;-) Chuck WB2EDV Kevin Custer wrote: I think what Chuck was getting at was the 'automatic' beamtilt of a vertical omni collinear (usually fiberglass) when it is run outside of its specified bandwidth. As a function of the element length in a coaxial collinear as compared to the applied frequency, the vertical beam pattern will change with applied frequency. If a coaxial collinear is fed with a signal that is exactly on its design frequency, the vertical beam pattern will be centered about the antenna, and the antenna will be at its highest radiating efficiency. If a coaxial collinear is fed with a signal that is 2% lower than its design, the antenna will exhibit a vertical beam downtilt of approximately 3 degrees and suffer approximately 10% loss in overall gain. If a signal that is 2% higher than the antenna design is fed into a coaxial collinear, vertical beam uptilt of approximately 3 degrees will occur, and again a loss of overall gain. These instances are not the case with binary or corporate fed dipole arrays, as the phasing harness predominantly controls the vertical beam pattern. Beam Tilt and efficiency doesn't change very much with applied frequency, and is one reason that the exposed dipole array is a better choice where wide band operation is required. Kevin Custer skipp025 wrote: Kind of loaded question/statement/answer really. All antennas have both horizontal and vertical beamwidth. Depending on what you think is beam-tilt... one could and some do say all antennas have a beam tilt and or a beam width. Others combine the description... In the more commercial world of antennas, we now see vertical omni repeater site antennas with adjustable beam tilt. But I'm not sure if I'd say they have to be made with fiberglass radomes (covers). There's more than one method used by the various mfgrs to adjust the beam tilt - beam width. For the most part we only see some models with adjustable setting in some vertical omni models with composite radomes. ... and you pay serious money for the adjustable beam tilt models. If you pay attention to the specs, you'll see values for the horizontal, vertitcal beam width and where needed, the/any adjustable beam tilt values. Your results will probably vary... === message truncated === __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] down tilt
Hi All I agree with Kevin and have used this in the commercial field where the anteena was originallt cut higher than was to be used. I mounted the antenna upside-down and had good results-with some noticed downtilt which was good for the application .On the same token keep in mind that most of the efficiency of the collinear design lies at the first radiating element - reduced radiation as one extends to the end of the antenna. Good luck Regards Bradley glen zs5swt /zs5wt --- Chuck Kelsey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks for saving me all the typing ;-) Chuck WB2EDV Kevin Custer wrote: I think what Chuck was getting at was the 'automatic' beamtilt of a vertical omni collinear (usually fiberglass) when it is run outside of its specified bandwidth. As a function of the element length in a coaxial collinear as compared to the applied frequency, the vertical beam pattern will change with applied frequency. If a coaxial collinear is fed with a signal that is exactly on its design frequency, the vertical beam pattern will be centered about the antenna, and the antenna will be at its highest radiating efficiency. If a coaxial collinear is fed with a signal that is 2% lower than its design, the antenna will exhibit a vertical beam downtilt of approximately 3 degrees and suffer approximately 10% loss in overall gain. If a signal that is 2% higher than the antenna design is fed into a coaxial collinear, vertical beam uptilt of approximately 3 degrees will occur, and again a loss of overall gain. These instances are not the case with binary or corporate fed dipole arrays, as the phasing harness predominantly controls the vertical beam pattern. Beam Tilt and efficiency doesn't change very much with applied frequency, and is one reason that the exposed dipole array is a better choice where wide band operation is required. Kevin Custer skipp025 wrote: Kind of loaded question/statement/answer really. All antennas have both horizontal and vertical beamwidth. Depending on what you think is beam-tilt... one could and some do say all antennas have a beam tilt and or a beam width. Others combine the description... In the more commercial world of antennas, we now see vertical omni repeater site antennas with adjustable beam tilt. But I'm not sure if I'd say they have to be made with fiberglass radomes (covers). There's more than one method used by the various mfgrs to adjust the beam tilt - beam width. For the most part we only see some models with adjustable setting in some vertical omni models with composite radomes. ... and you pay serious money for the adjustable beam tilt models. If you pay attention to the specs, you'll see values for the horizontal, vertitcal beam width and where needed, the/any adjustable beam tilt values. Your results will probably vary... cheers, skipp Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] down tilt
Hold on there Bradley... An antenna that is built for a higher frequency than what you are inputting will exhibit downtilt in its original orientation. Kevin bradley glen wrote: Hi All I agree with Kevin and have used this in the commercial field where the anteena was originallt cut higher than was to be used. I mounted the antenna upside-down and had good results-with some noticed downtilt which was good for the application .On the same token keep in mind that most of the efficiency of the collinear design lies at the first radiating element - reduced radiation as one extends to the end of the antenna. Good luck Regards Bradley glen zs5swt /zs5wt --- Chuck Kelsey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks for saving me all the typing ;-) Chuck WB2EDV Kevin Custer wrote: I think what Chuck was getting at was the 'automatic' beamtilt of a vertical omni collinear (usually fiberglass) when it is run outside of its specified bandwidth. As a function of the element length in a coaxial collinear as compared to the applied frequency, the vertical beam pattern will change with applied frequency. If a coaxial collinear is fed with a signal that is exactly on its design frequency, the vertical beam pattern will be centered about the antenna, and the antenna will be at its highest radiating efficiency. If a coaxial collinear is fed with a signal that is 2% lower than its design, the antenna will exhibit a vertical beam downtilt of approximately 3 degrees and suffer approximately 10% loss in overall gain. If a signal that is 2% higher than the antenna design is fed into a coaxial collinear, vertical beam uptilt of approximately 3 degrees will occur, and again a loss of overall gain. These instances are not the case with binary or corporate fed dipole arrays, as the phasing harness predominantly controls the vertical beam pattern. Beam Tilt and efficiency doesn't change very much with applied frequency, and is one reason that the exposed dipole array is a better choice where wide band operation is required. Kevin Custer skipp025 wrote: Kind of loaded question/statement/answer really. All antennas have both horizontal and vertical beamwidth. Depending on what you think is beam-tilt... one could and some do say all antennas have a beam tilt and or a beam width. Others combine the description... In the more commercial world of antennas, we now see vertical omni repeater site antennas with adjustable beam tilt. But I'm not sure if I'd say they have to be made with fiberglass radomes (covers). There's more than one method used by the various mfgrs to adjust the beam tilt - beam width. For the most part we only see some models with adjustable setting in some vertical omni models with composite radomes. ... and you pay serious money for the adjustable beam tilt models. If you pay attention to the specs, you'll see values for the horizontal, vertitcal beam width and where needed, the/any adjustable beam tilt values. Your results will probably vary... cheers, skipp Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
Re: [Repeater-Builder] down tilt
Hi Guys and Girls. Is there a location where I can get more info on the theory of collinear antenna's. They are used allot here in OZ at least over the past 30+ years that I have been in the game. I have read info on phasing multiple dipoles. TIA Brett - Original Message - From: bradley glen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, April 09, 2006 6:37 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] down tilt Hi All I agree with Kevin and have used this in the commercial field where the anteena was originallt cut higher than was to be used. I mounted the antenna upside-down and had good results-with some noticed downtilt which was good for the application .On the same token keep in mind that most of the efficiency of the collinear design lies at the first radiating element - reduced radiation as one extends to the end of the antenna. Good luck Regards Bradley glen zs5swt /zs5wt --- Chuck Kelsey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks for saving me all the typing ;-) Chuck WB2EDV Kevin Custer wrote: I think what Chuck was getting at was the 'automatic' beamtilt of a vertical omni collinear (usually fiberglass) when it is run outside of its specified bandwidth. As a function of the element length in a coaxial collinear as compared to the applied frequency, the vertical beam pattern will change with applied frequency. If a coaxial collinear is fed with a signal that is exactly on its design frequency, the vertical beam pattern will be centered about the antenna, and the antenna will be at its highest radiating efficiency. If a coaxial collinear is fed with a signal that is 2% lower than its design, the antenna will exhibit a vertical beam downtilt of approximately 3 degrees and suffer approximately 10% loss in overall gain. If a signal that is 2% higher than the antenna design is fed into a coaxial collinear, vertical beam uptilt of approximately 3 degrees will occur, and again a loss of overall gain. These instances are not the case with binary or corporate fed dipole arrays, as the phasing harness predominantly controls the vertical beam pattern. Beam Tilt and efficiency doesn't change very much with applied frequency, and is one reason that the exposed dipole array is a better choice where wide band operation is required. Kevin Custer skipp025 wrote: Kind of loaded question/statement/answer really. All antennas have both horizontal and vertical beamwidth. Depending on what you think is beam-tilt... one could and some do say all antennas have a beam tilt and or a beam width. Others combine the description... In the more commercial world of antennas, we now see vertical omni repeater site antennas with adjustable beam tilt. But I'm not sure if I'd say they have to be made with fiberglass radomes (covers). There's more than one method used by the various mfgrs to adjust the beam tilt - beam width. For the most part we only see some models with adjustable setting in some vertical omni models with composite radomes. ... and you pay serious money for the adjustable beam tilt models. If you pay attention to the specs, you'll see values for the horizontal, vertitcal beam width and where needed, the/any adjustable beam tilt values. Your results will probably vary... cheers, skipp Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[Repeater-Builder] down tilt
Kind of loaded question/statement/answer really. All antennas have both horizontal and vertical beamwidth. Depending on what you think is beam-tilt... one could and some do say all antennas have a beam tilt and or a beam width. Others combine the description... In the more commercial world of antennas, we now see vertical omni repeater site antennas with adjustable beam tilt. But I'm not sure if I'd say they have to be made with fiberglass radomes (covers). There's more than one method used by the various mfgrs to adjust the beam tilt - beam width. For the most part we only see some models with adjustable setting in some vertical omni models with composite radomes. ... and you pay serious money for the adjustable beam tilt models. If you pay attention to the specs, you'll see values for the horizontal, vertitcal beam width and where needed, the/any adjustable beam tilt values. Your results will probably vary... cheers, skipp Chuck Kelsey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I believe the down tilt issue only happens with the fiberglass antennas. Chuck WB2EDV wa9ba wrote: Our new antenna is 1.:1 on 145.490 and the coverage has increased about 10 or 20 miles. Apparently we had some downtilt that we no longer have. I would recommend buying a DB224 cut for the ham bands first, save yourself trouble. Bill WA9BA Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] down tilt
I think what Chuck was getting at was the 'automatic' beamtilt of a vertical omni collinear (usually fiberglass) when it is run outside of its specified bandwidth. As a function of the element length in a coaxial collinear as compared to the applied frequency, the vertical beam pattern will change with applied frequency. If a coaxial collinear is fed with a signal that is exactly on its design frequency, the vertical beam pattern will be centered about the antenna, and the antenna will be at its highest radiating efficiency. If a coaxial collinear is fed with a signal that is 2% lower than its design, the antenna will exhibit a vertical beam downtilt of approximately 3 degrees and suffer approximately 10% loss in overall gain. If a signal that is 2% higher than the antenna design is fed into a coaxial collinear, vertical beam uptilt of approximately 3 degrees will occur, and again a loss of overall gain. These instances are not the case with binary or corporate fed dipole arrays, as the phasing harness predominantly controls the vertical beam pattern. Beam Tilt and efficiency doesn't change very much with applied frequency, and is one reason that the exposed dipole array is a better choice where wide band operation is required. Kevin Custer skipp025 wrote: Kind of loaded question/statement/answer really. All antennas have both horizontal and vertical beamwidth. Depending on what you think is beam-tilt... one could and some do say all antennas have a beam tilt and or a beam width. Others combine the description... In the more commercial world of antennas, we now see vertical omni repeater site antennas with adjustable beam tilt. But I'm not sure if I'd say they have to be made with fiberglass radomes (covers). There's more than one method used by the various mfgrs to adjust the beam tilt - beam width. For the most part we only see some models with adjustable setting in some vertical omni models with composite radomes. ... and you pay serious money for the adjustable beam tilt models. If you pay attention to the specs, you'll see values for the horizontal, vertitcal beam width and where needed, the/any adjustable beam tilt values. Your results will probably vary... cheers, skipp Chuck Kelsey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I believe the down tilt issue only happens with the fiberglass antennas. Chuck WB2EDV wa9ba wrote: Our new antenna is 1.:1 on 145.490 and the coverage has increased about 10 or 20 miles. Apparently we had some downtilt that we no longer have. I would recommend buying a DB224 cut for the ham bands first, save yourself trouble. Bill WA9BA Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "Repeater-Builder" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] down tilt
Thanks for saving me all the typing ;-) Chuck WB2EDV Kevin Custer wrote: I think what Chuck was getting at was the 'automatic' beamtilt of a vertical omni collinear (usually fiberglass) when it is run outside of its specified bandwidth. As a function of the element length in a coaxial collinear as compared to the applied frequency, the vertical beam pattern will change with applied frequency. If a coaxial collinear is fed with a signal that is exactly on its design frequency, the vertical beam pattern will be centered about the antenna, and the antenna will be at its highest radiating efficiency. If a coaxial collinear is fed with a signal that is 2% lower than its design, the antenna will exhibit a vertical beam downtilt of approximately 3 degrees and suffer approximately 10% loss in overall gain. If a signal that is 2% higher than the antenna design is fed into a coaxial collinear, vertical beam uptilt of approximately 3 degrees will occur, and again a loss of overall gain. These instances are not the case with binary or corporate fed dipole arrays, as the phasing harness predominantly controls the vertical beam pattern. Beam Tilt and efficiency doesn't change very much with applied frequency, and is one reason that the exposed dipole array is a better choice where wide band operation is required. Kevin Custer skipp025 wrote: Kind of loaded question/statement/answer really. All antennas have both horizontal and vertical beamwidth. Depending on what you think is beam-tilt... one could and some do say all antennas have a beam tilt and or a beam width. Others combine the description... In the more commercial world of antennas, we now see vertical omni repeater site antennas with adjustable beam tilt. But I'm not sure if I'd say they have to be made with fiberglass radomes (covers). There's more than one method used by the various mfgrs to adjust the beam tilt - beam width. For the most part we only see some models with adjustable setting in some vertical omni models with composite radomes. ... and you pay serious money for the adjustable beam tilt models. If you pay attention to the specs, you'll see values for the horizontal, vertitcal beam width and where needed, the/any adjustable beam tilt values. Your results will probably vary... cheers, skipp Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] down tilt
If a coaxial collinear is fed with a signal that is 2% lower than its design, the antenna will exhibit a vertical beam downtilt of approximately 3 degrees and suffer approximately 10% loss in overall gain. If a signal that is 2% higher than the antenna design is fed into a coaxial collinear, vertical beam uptilt of approximately 3 degrees will occur, and again a loss of overall gain. I was wondering about the effects of tilt with fiberglass antennas. I've looked at what a couple degrees of tilt will do to the coverage area of a low site (150') and it's not good. ThenI look up at my fiberglas vunderstik which is tilted about 3-4 degrees to the east depending on how the wind blows. I really want to put my dipole array up! YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "Repeater-Builder" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
