Re: Basic Configuration (Was: Re: Retro)

[Ben Mihailescu]

Hi,

I got to say: in a university environment the image/fixed data path
works like a charm. The students (clients) will pretty much mess up a
workstation within 3 months. By having a 4BG Ghost image for NT4 and 2k
download in under 10 minutes and then restore networking and data if any
is the most efficient way to operate for us. Have you ever tried to do a
restore from a backup set with 8 DLT members? It's a lot of trips to the
tape drive...

As far as having IT recommend the way to work in a company/university, I
think is the sanest option: Usually you have 1-10 IT guys and 5-600
users. Can you imagine the scenario combinations? Long live server data
storage!

Cheers, Ben

Pam Lefkowitz wrote:
> 
> On 3/8/2001 1:07 PM, "Julia Frizzell" wrote:
> 
> > Every one of our users is told when they start, and they get frequent
> > reminders, that nothing not in the Documents folder (save their
> > bookmarks) gets backed up. We keep the Documents folder on the
> > desktop so they can get to it easily, and remind them to make aliases
> > instead of putting files/folders on the desktop.
> 
> Julia,
> 
> Seems to me that this is all a matter of how the IT is structured and who
> has ownership and control over data. If the goal is for IT to design and
> determine how users can and should work, then your setup works fine
> (assuming, of course, that everyone saves everything to the designated
> spot).
> 
> If, on the other hand, users work in a way that gives them freedom to be
> comfortable in their work environment (therefore, more productive) then your
> method isn't as effective. I had a client who was determined to have IT own
> the workflow and have all documents, etc. reside on the servers. I
> questioned this logic but I never really got an answer as to how they were
> going to handle it when the their boss lost data because he just couldn't
> figure out how to navigate the servers to save his stuff or because he just
> got back from a 3 week business trip and hadn't had time to move his things
> to the server yet. Frankly, if a missed deadline caused by lost data costs
> the company a $x-million fine then something is wrong in the IT
> structure/workflow/strategy.
> 
> Obviously, you can see where my preference for user support lies...strongly.
> I believe that IT is there to *support* our users, not to tell them how to
> best do their job. Therefore, I vote HUGELY in favor of backing up desktops
> as well as servers. One can never be too protected.
> 
> Whew, quite a rant that was. Think I'll go out for a walk.
> 
> Pam
> 
> ---
> 
> Pam Lefkowitz, President  Core Computing Technologies, Inc.
> voice:847/675-3513fax: 847/675-3564
> Member, Apple Solution Experts/Apple Product Professional
> Dantz Development Solutions Provider
> 
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Re: Basic Configuration (Was: Re: Retro)

[Pam Lefkowitz]

On 3/8/2001 1:07 PM, "Julia Frizzell" wrote:

> Every one of our users is told when they start, and they get frequent
> reminders, that nothing not in the Documents folder (save their
> bookmarks) gets backed up. We keep the Documents folder on the
> desktop so they can get to it easily, and remind them to make aliases
> instead of putting files/folders on the desktop.

Julia,

Seems to me that this is all a matter of how the IT is structured and who
has ownership and control over data. If the goal is for IT to design and
determine how users can and should work, then your setup works fine
(assuming, of course, that everyone saves everything to the designated
spot). 

If, on the other hand, users work in a way that gives them freedom to be
comfortable in their work environment (therefore, more productive) then your
method isn't as effective. I had a client who was determined to have IT own
the workflow and have all documents, etc. reside on the servers. I
questioned this logic but I never really got an answer as to how they were
going to handle it when the their boss lost data because he just couldn't
figure out how to navigate the servers to save his stuff or because he just
got back from a 3 week business trip and hadn't had time to move his things
to the server yet. Frankly, if a missed deadline caused by lost data costs
the company a $x-million fine then something is wrong in the IT
structure/workflow/strategy.

Obviously, you can see where my preference for user support lies...strongly.
I believe that IT is there to *support* our users, not to tell them how to
best do their job. Therefore, I vote HUGELY in favor of backing up desktops
as well as servers. One can never be too protected.

Whew, quite a rant that was. Think I'll go out for a walk.

Pam

---

Pam Lefkowitz, President  Core Computing Technologies, Inc.
voice:847/675-3513fax: 847/675-3564
Member, Apple Solution Experts/Apple Product Professional
Dantz Development Solutions Provider






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Re: Basic Configuration (Was: Re: Retro)

[matt barkdull]

For the Macs, I made a bootable CD with Retrospect client installed 
and configured.

1. Boot from CD
2. format the hard disk,
3. Restore from network backup
4. Reboot system...Done.

Depending on how much data, it can take from 20 minutes to 2 hours. 
I just can't push that tape any faster...  :)


Notes on the Bootable CDs:

I have 4 different types of Macs.

B&W G3
G4
G3 Powerbook (firewire)
7600-9600 series


I had to create 3 CD's
1 for the B&W G3
1 for the G4
1 for the Powerbooks and 7600-9600's

For some reason I cannot get a universal system built that will boot 
on all of them.

I installed Retrospect client and configured all the TCP/IP settings 
to a standard single IP number that I have reserved for restores.


Some of the WinTel's, I've been able to create a boot ZIP disk for 
and install the Retro-Client on it.  It works, but only for certain 
WinTel's.



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RE: Basic Configuration (Was: Re: Retro)

[Craig Isaacs]

> From: Todd Williams
> I use the same basic setup.  Its easier to restore only the docs and
> prefs to the disk after you have restored everything else with an
> image.

Keep in mind how Retrospect works (based on Eric's ASCIIart).

If you're already using disk imagine software (Mac or Windows) to roll out
computers, Retrospect only makes one copy of identical files. So, there's
only one copy of those files in the backup set -- and, if you install those
files locally to the backup computer, those files never have to be copied
across the LAN.

So, you don't have to limit the backups to the Docs folder.

Craig



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Re: Basic Configuration (Was: Re: Retro)

[Todd Williams]

I use the same basic setup.  Its easier to restore only the docs and 
prefs to the disk after you have restored everything else with an 
image.  (I made a an image of a bootable CD and replaced the TCP/IP 
pref with our support IP address.  That way I have IP access to the 
server, not slow appletalk.  Its worth the effort).


>At 9:21 AM -0800 3/8/01, Craig Gaevert wrote:
>
>>And after having lost drives (this has
>>happened 2 times) within days of having no backup I will not 
>>tolerate more than 1 day
>>w/o a complete backup. I gave up and went to a single script that 
>>uses a different tape
>>each day, completely replacing the contents, along with a monthly 
>>archive backup.  Now
>>this was about two years ago. And yes, I too, have several large 
>>FMP files that need
>>backup.
>
>I am probably in the minority here with my situation, but I feel I 
>just have to speak up. Apologies in advance if I offend anyone.
>
>Here at my workplace, we have a standard configuration that we 
>implement. Sure, there are a number of folk (mostly our publications 
>staff) that deviate from the standard, but not enough that we need 
>more than one image that includes all the applications on a typical 
>user's box.
>
>I create an image of the drive and using Apple Software Restore, I 
>can replace a user's drive, should it crash, in about 10 minutes. 
>Then it's just a matter of replacing the user's Documents folder and 
>bookmark files, which are backed up nightly using incrementals.
>
>All in all, it takes me about a half-hour to completely restore a 
>user after a crash, more if I have to re-install other applications 
>(such as Photoshop, Illustrator, etc. that our Pubs folk use).
>
>Every one of our users is told when they start, and they get 
>frequent reminders, that nothing not in the Documents folder (save 
>their bookmarks) gets backed up. We keep the Documents folder on the 
>desktop so they can get to it easily, and remind them to make 
>aliases instead of putting files/folders on the desktop.
>
>Our servers do not follow this regimen, though they probably should. 
>Maybe when I do the next upgrade...have a basic OS for the image, 
>and the apps can be re-installed fairly easily, or have OS & apps 
>each in their own image.
>
>Do most people who use Retrospect not have a standard config that 
>they can rebuild from, in case of a crash? I know you can also use 
>Retrospect in this regard, but I personally find it easier using 
>ASR. If we were using Windows machines, I'd buy a copy of Ghost and 
>do the same thing.
>
>Or do most of you back up the whole drive each night, because each 
>drive is different and there are no standards? Or something else?
>
>I'm just curious, I guess, and puzzled. Of course, my Windows box at 
>home doesn't have a standard config nor does it get backed up 
>(yipe!), but I'm planning on backing everything up this weekend and 
>starting over from scratch anyway. And maybe I can put backup 
>software on the Christmas list this year. :)
>
>--
>---
>Julia Frizzell
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>http://www.netspace.org/~glyneth
>http://www.theblackroad.org
>"Insert pithy quote here."
>
>
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-- 

Todd Williams   UCSD ECE Computing Support Group (858)-534-7821

If you ever stop learning . . . perhaps you're dead!!!


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Basic Configuration (Was: Re: Retro)

[Julia Frizzell]

At 9:21 AM -0800 3/8/01, Craig Gaevert wrote:

>And after having lost drives (this has
>happened 2 times) within days of having no backup I will not 
>tolerate more than 1 day
>w/o a complete backup. I gave up and went to a single script that 
>uses a different tape
>each day, completely replacing the contents, along with a monthly 
>archive backup.  Now
>this was about two years ago. And yes, I too, have several large FMP 
>files that need
>backup.

I am probably in the minority here with my situation, but I feel I 
just have to speak up. Apologies in advance if I offend anyone.

Here at my workplace, we have a standard configuration that we 
implement. Sure, there are a number of folk (mostly our publications 
staff) that deviate from the standard, but not enough that we need 
more than one image that includes all the applications on a typical 
user's box.

I create an image of the drive and using Apple Software Restore, I 
can replace a user's drive, should it crash, in about 10 minutes. 
Then it's just a matter of replacing the user's Documents folder and 
bookmark files, which are backed up nightly using incrementals.

All in all, it takes me about a half-hour to completely restore a 
user after a crash, more if I have to re-install other applications 
(such as Photoshop, Illustrator, etc. that our Pubs folk use).

Every one of our users is told when they start, and they get frequent 
reminders, that nothing not in the Documents folder (save their 
bookmarks) gets backed up. We keep the Documents folder on the 
desktop so they can get to it easily, and remind them to make aliases 
instead of putting files/folders on the desktop.

Our servers do not follow this regimen, though they probably should. 
Maybe when I do the next upgrade...have a basic OS for the image, and 
the apps can be re-installed fairly easily, or have OS & apps each in 
their own image.

Do most people who use Retrospect not have a standard config that 
they can rebuild from, in case of a crash? I know you can also use 
Retrospect in this regard, but I personally find it easier using ASR. 
If we were using Windows machines, I'd buy a copy of Ghost and do the 
same thing.

Or do most of you back up the whole drive each night, because each 
drive is different and there are no standards? Or something else?

I'm just curious, I guess, and puzzled. Of course, my Windows box at 
home doesn't have a standard config nor does it get backed up 
(yipe!), but I'm planning on backing everything up this weekend and 
starting over from scratch anyway. And maybe I can put backup 
software on the Christmas list this year. :)

-- 
---
Julia Frizzell
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.netspace.org/~glyneth
http://www.theblackroad.org
"Insert pithy quote here."


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