[sniffer] Re: Appriver issue

2007-05-18 Thread Matt

I have something that I would also like to clear up.

When I indicated that AppRiver had removed it's contact page, it likely 
just wasn't operating at the time that I was attempting to access it.  
Considering their issues, it would not be a surprise to see other issues 
like this caused, but it seemed suspicious since their home page was 
working and not their contact page.  I did note that it was working by 
the time that it was pointed out that it was up.


In no way did I ever believe that Pete or Sniffer had any direct 
involvement in the system that created these problems, and in no way 
should this reflect badly on Pete or Sniffer as far as I am concerned.


I was slightly miffed after getting off the phone with them where their 
reaction quite clearly indicated that they were aware of the issue.  I 
suggested that they take their servers off-line due to the issues that 
were being caused, but I was probably barking up the wrong tree.  The 
servers weren't taken off line for another hour or so, or maybe this is 
when the delivery servers caught up with the queued E-mail destined for 
my client.  I'm not sure why they didn't act on this sooner.  When you 
have a loop, it is important to stop it, and their multi-homing made it 
difficult for others to block.  One user received about 500 copies of 
the same message (and also called them), and there were other examples 
that we saw which were much more limited.  I do hope that they didn't 
choose to introduce new software at 11 a.m. ET on the busiest E-mail day 
of the week, and that this was only when the problems surfaced...


Everyone that deals with significant volumes of E-mail has issues from 
time to time, and I wouldn't draw conclusions about AppRiver based on 
just this one circumstance.  I would imagine that it is hard to plan for 
how to deal with a broad scale looping issue, and I'm sure this was a 
learning experience for them.


Matt




David Moore wrote:

I think what Peter is try to say is that Sort monster is hosted at Appriver
and Appriver had an issue and therefore so did Sort monster.

http://www.dnsstuff.com/tools/dnsreport.ch?&domain=sortmonster.com
 



Regards David Moore
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

J.P. MCP, MCSE, MCSE + INTERNET, CNE.
www.adsldirect.com.au for ADSL and Internet www.romtech.com.au for PC sales

Office Phone: (+612) 9453 1990
Fax Phone: (+612) 9453 1880
Mobile Phone: +614 18 282 648

POSTAL ADDRESS:
PO BOX 190
BELROSE NSW 2085
AUSTRALIA.

-

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If you are not the intended recipient please notify the sender by reply
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-Original Message-
From: Message Sniffer Community [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Kevin Rogers
Sent: Saturday, 19 May 2007 11:59 AM
To: Message Sniffer Community
Subject: [sniffer] Re: Appriver issue

Thanks for the explanation, and I wasn't trying to blame you - just wanted
more info is all.

We use Sniffer, but not Appriver.  You said that if we don't use Appriver,
we shouldn't have been affected, but you also seemed to say that if one of
the recipient's of my user's email uses Appriver that might've caused a
problem.  And also that *some* of Sniffer users might have experienced the
problem as well. 


It sounds like things are still being worked out.  I just wanted some kind
of verification that they were aware of the problem, were working on it,
that they were in some way sorry about what happened...you know - the usual
stuff.  And I know that you are not an official rep of Appriver or anything,
but presently you're all we have in that role ;)

Thanks

Kevin




Pete McNeil wrote:
  

Hello Kevin,

Friday, May 18, 2007, 8:52:47 PM, you wrote:

  

Pete - Thanks for the reply, but I guess I don't understand what 
you're saying.  "Some packet loss" and "rulebase downloads to slow 
down for a time" don't reflect what happened to me yesterday and 
apparently not what happened to one of the other posters either when 
he said that Appriver was having a problem "with sending messages 
over and over again".  I received over (at last count) 35,000 
messages (almost all of which were bounced replies, from one email 
from one of our users who sent an email to about 70 people) yesterday.

  
  

And I had already gone to http://www.armresearch.com/  yesterday and 
there was nothing there.  There is nothing there today that I can see.

  
  

What happened?  I lost an entire day's worth of email because of 
b

[sniffer] Re: Appriver issue

2007-05-18 Thread David Moore
I think what Peter is try to say is that Sort monster is hosted at Appriver
and Appriver had an issue and therefore so did Sort monster.

http://www.dnsstuff.com/tools/dnsreport.ch?&domain=sortmonster.com
 


Regards David Moore
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

J.P. MCP, MCSE, MCSE + INTERNET, CNE.
www.adsldirect.com.au for ADSL and Internet www.romtech.com.au for PC sales

Office Phone: (+612) 9453 1990
Fax Phone: (+612) 9453 1880
Mobile Phone: +614 18 282 648

POSTAL ADDRESS:
PO BOX 190
BELROSE NSW 2085
AUSTRALIA.

-

This email message is only intended for the addressee(s) and contains
information that may be confidential, legally privileged and/or copyright.
If you are not the intended recipient please notify the sender by reply
email and immediately delete this email. Use, disclosure or reproduction of
this email, or taking any action in reliance on its contents by anyone other
than the intended recipient(s) is strictly prohibited. No representation is
made that this email or any attachments are free of viruses. Virus scanning
is recommended and is the responsibility of the recipient.


-Original Message-
From: Message Sniffer Community [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Kevin Rogers
Sent: Saturday, 19 May 2007 11:59 AM
To: Message Sniffer Community
Subject: [sniffer] Re: Appriver issue

Thanks for the explanation, and I wasn't trying to blame you - just wanted
more info is all.

We use Sniffer, but not Appriver.  You said that if we don't use Appriver,
we shouldn't have been affected, but you also seemed to say that if one of
the recipient's of my user's email uses Appriver that might've caused a
problem.  And also that *some* of Sniffer users might have experienced the
problem as well. 

It sounds like things are still being worked out.  I just wanted some kind
of verification that they were aware of the problem, were working on it,
that they were in some way sorry about what happened...you know - the usual
stuff.  And I know that you are not an official rep of Appriver or anything,
but presently you're all we have in that role ;)

Thanks

Kevin




Pete McNeil wrote:
> Hello Kevin,
>
> Friday, May 18, 2007, 8:52:47 PM, you wrote:
>
>   
>> Pete - Thanks for the reply, but I guess I don't understand what 
>> you're saying.  "Some packet loss" and "rulebase downloads to slow 
>> down for a time" don't reflect what happened to me yesterday and 
>> apparently not what happened to one of the other posters either when 
>> he said that Appriver was having a problem "with sending messages 
>> over and over again".  I received over (at last count) 35,000 
>> messages (almost all of which were bounced replies, from one email 
>> from one of our users who sent an email to about 70 people) yesterday.
>> 
>
>   
>> And I had already gone to http://www.armresearch.com/  yesterday and 
>> there was nothing there.  There is nothing there today that I can see.
>> 
>
>   
>> What happened?  I lost an entire day's worth of email because of 
>> bounced messages.  I didn't sleep last night.  I don't even use 
>> Appriver.  I would hope someone could explain it a little better than
that.  Thanks.
>> 
>
> I was answering the question - how is AppRiver related to Message 
> Sniffer.
>
> I don't have specifics on the problem at AppRiver yet - they are still 
> picking up the pieces, though operations are back to normal afaik. I 
> do know (preliminarily) that the problem occurred when a new piece of 
> software caused some messages with multiple recipients to loop and as 
> a result to be replicated and resent repeatedly.
>
> If you are not a user of AppRiver then you shouldn't have been 
> effected. Perhaps if you sent a message to someone who is a user of 
> AppRiver then that might have gotten your messages involved.
>
> The only direct effect I'm aware of for SNF users was that for a time 
> rulebase downloads were slowed due to packet loss.
>
> Since we use AppRiver for filtering (they, after all are using SNF) 
> some messages that get sent to us apparently did loop to some lists.
> Also, some email to our accounts was delayed.
>
> I would need to know a lot more about your system and the email you 
> lost before I could make any guesses as to what happened there -- but 
> if you're not using AppRiver then you shouldn't have been effected.
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> _M
>
>   

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[sniffer] Re: Appriver issue

2007-05-18 Thread Kevin Rogers
Thanks for the explanation, and I wasn't trying to blame you - just 
wanted more info is all.


We use Sniffer, but not Appriver.  You said that if we don't use 
Appriver, we shouldn't have been affected, but you also seemed to say 
that if one of the recipient's of my user's email uses Appriver that 
might've caused a problem.  And also that *some* of Sniffer users might 
have experienced the problem as well. 

It sounds like things are still being worked out.  I just wanted some 
kind of verification that they were aware of the problem, were working 
on it, that they were in some way sorry about what happened...you know - 
the usual stuff.  And I know that you are not an official rep of 
Appriver or anything, but presently you're all we have in that role ;)


Thanks

Kevin




Pete McNeil wrote:

Hello Kevin,

Friday, May 18, 2007, 8:52:47 PM, you wrote:

  

Pete - Thanks for the reply, but I guess I don't understand what you're
saying.  "Some packet loss" and "rulebase downloads to slow down for a
time" don't reflect what happened to me yesterday and apparently not 
what happened to one of the other posters either when he said that 
Appriver was having a problem "with sending messages over and over 
again".  I received over (at last count) 35,000 messages (almost all of
which were bounced replies, from one email from one of our users who 
sent an email to about 70 people) yesterday.



  
And I had already gone to http://www.armresearch.com/  yesterday and 
there was nothing there.  There is nothing there today that I can see.



  

What happened?  I lost an entire day's worth of email because of bounced
messages.  I didn't sleep last night.  I don't even use Appriver.  I 
would hope someone could explain it a little better than that.  Thanks.



I was answering the question - how is AppRiver related to Message
Sniffer.

I don't have specifics on the problem at AppRiver yet - they are still
picking up the pieces, though operations are back to normal afaik. I
do know (preliminarily) that the problem occurred when a new piece of
software caused some messages with multiple recipients to loop and as
a result to be replicated and resent repeatedly.

If you are not a user of AppRiver then you shouldn't have been
effected. Perhaps if you sent a message to someone who is a user of
AppRiver then that might have gotten your messages involved.

The only direct effect I'm aware of for SNF users was that for a time
rulebase downloads were slowed due to packet loss.

Since we use AppRiver for filtering (they, after all are using SNF)
some messages that get sent to us apparently did loop to some lists.
Also, some email to our accounts was delayed.

I would need to know a lot more about your system and the email you
lost before I could make any guesses as to what happened there -- but
if you're not using AppRiver then you shouldn't have been effected.

Hope this helps,

_M

  


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[sniffer] Re: Appriver issue

2007-05-18 Thread Chris Bunting
Maybe I caused the confusion.  The problem I had was with my customer using 
appriver.  Not with my customers using message sniffer.  How can something that 
happens with rulebase downloads effect your mail server? It shouldn't.  I would 
expect there's a seperate problem with your mail server that jus happened to 
occur the same day by coincidence

I received a call from appriver today explaining that they released a patch 
that had acted badly on their servers. Which is why appriver customers had 
problems.  Message sniffer resides on your own server so it should never be 
effected by any outside outages


Thank You,
Chris Bunting
Lancaster Networks
717-278-6639

>Sent by my BlackBerry wireless device  

-Original Message-
From: Pete McNeil <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 21:44:18 
To:"Message Sniffer Community" 
Subject: [sniffer] Re: Appriver issue

Hello Kevin,

Friday, May 18, 2007, 8:52:47 PM, you wrote:

> Pete - Thanks for the reply, but I guess I don't understand what you're
> saying.  "Some packet loss" and "rulebase downloads to slow down for a
> time" don't reflect what happened to me yesterday and apparently not 
> what happened to one of the other posters either when he said that 
> Appriver was having a problem "with sending messages over and over 
> again".  I received over (at last count) 35,000 messages (almost all of
> which were bounced replies, from one email from one of our users who 
> sent an email to about 70 people) yesterday.

> And I had already gone to http://www.armresearch.com/  yesterday and 
> there was nothing there.  There is nothing there today that I can see.

> What happened?  I lost an entire day's worth of email because of bounced
> messages.  I didn't sleep last night.  I don't even use Appriver.  I 
> would hope someone could explain it a little better than that.  Thanks.

I was answering the question - how is AppRiver related to Message
Sniffer.

I don't have specifics on the problem at AppRiver yet - they are still
picking up the pieces, though operations are back to normal afaik. I
do know (preliminarily) that the problem occurred when a new piece of
software caused some messages with multiple recipients to loop and as
a result to be replicated and resent repeatedly.

If you are not a user of AppRiver then you shouldn't have been
effected. Perhaps if you sent a message to someone who is a user of
AppRiver then that might have gotten your messages involved.

The only direct effect I'm aware of for SNF users was that for a time
rulebase downloads were slowed due to packet loss.

Since we use AppRiver for filtering (they, after all are using SNF)
some messages that get sent to us apparently did loop to some lists.
Also, some email to our accounts was delayed.

I would need to know a lot more about your system and the email you
lost before I could make any guesses as to what happened there -- but
if you're not using AppRiver then you shouldn't have been effected.

Hope this helps,

_M

-- 
Pete McNeil
Chief Scientist,
Arm Research Labs, LLC.


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[sniffer] Re: Appriver issue

2007-05-18 Thread Pete McNeil
Hello Kevin,

Friday, May 18, 2007, 8:52:47 PM, you wrote:

> Pete - Thanks for the reply, but I guess I don't understand what you're
> saying.  "Some packet loss" and "rulebase downloads to slow down for a
> time" don't reflect what happened to me yesterday and apparently not 
> what happened to one of the other posters either when he said that 
> Appriver was having a problem "with sending messages over and over 
> again".  I received over (at last count) 35,000 messages (almost all of
> which were bounced replies, from one email from one of our users who 
> sent an email to about 70 people) yesterday.

> And I had already gone to http://www.armresearch.com/  yesterday and 
> there was nothing there.  There is nothing there today that I can see.

> What happened?  I lost an entire day's worth of email because of bounced
> messages.  I didn't sleep last night.  I don't even use Appriver.  I 
> would hope someone could explain it a little better than that.  Thanks.

I was answering the question - how is AppRiver related to Message
Sniffer.

I don't have specifics on the problem at AppRiver yet - they are still
picking up the pieces, though operations are back to normal afaik. I
do know (preliminarily) that the problem occurred when a new piece of
software caused some messages with multiple recipients to loop and as
a result to be replicated and resent repeatedly.

If you are not a user of AppRiver then you shouldn't have been
effected. Perhaps if you sent a message to someone who is a user of
AppRiver then that might have gotten your messages involved.

The only direct effect I'm aware of for SNF users was that for a time
rulebase downloads were slowed due to packet loss.

Since we use AppRiver for filtering (they, after all are using SNF)
some messages that get sent to us apparently did loop to some lists.
Also, some email to our accounts was delayed.

I would need to know a lot more about your system and the email you
lost before I could make any guesses as to what happened there -- but
if you're not using AppRiver then you shouldn't have been effected.

Hope this helps,

_M

-- 
Pete McNeil
Chief Scientist,
Arm Research Labs, LLC.


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[sniffer] Re: Appriver issue

2007-05-18 Thread Kevin Rogers
Pete - Thanks for the reply, but I guess I don't understand what you're 
saying.  "Some packet loss" and "rulebase downloads to slow down for a 
time" don't reflect what happened to me yesterday and apparently not 
what happened to one of the other posters either when he said that 
Appriver was having a problem "with sending messages over and over 
again".  I received over (at last count) 35,000 messages (almost all of 
which were bounced replies, from one email from one of our users who 
sent an email to about 70 people) yesterday.


And I had already gone to http://www.armresearch.com/  yesterday and 
there was nothing there.  There is nothing there today that I can see.


What happened?  I lost an entire day's worth of email because of bounced 
messages.  I didn't sleep last night.  I don't even use Appriver.  I 
would hope someone could explain it a little better than that.  Thanks.


Kevin



Pete McNeil wrote:

Hello Computer,

Friday, May 18, 2007, 8:34:27 AM, you wrote:

  

For those of us in the dark about this, can someone explain who Appriver is,
and what is has to do with Message Sniffer?



Message Sniffer started out as an incubator project inside of
MicroNeil Research Corporation. When it was time for SNF to grow up
and become it's own company we went looking for partners who could
help it grow.

We searched long and hard and ultimately picked AppRiver for a lot of
good reasons :-) (Note I can still say that after all this time!)

ARM Research Labs, LLC was formed to take over the SNF project.

ARM is jointly owned by both AppRiver and MicroNeil. In order to
capitalize on economies of scale, asymmetrical bandwidth utilization,
and an efficient support infrastructure, a number of servers for ARM
are hosted along side AppRiver servers - this includes the servers
that provide rulebase updates for SNF.

Yesterday's events created a tremendous load on the network and that
caused some packet loss that caused rulebase downloads to slow down
for a time.

For more about ARM see: http://www.armresearch.com/

Hope this helps,

Thanks,

_M

  


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[sniffer] Re: Best renewal price and service on Sniffer?

2007-05-18 Thread Steve Guluk

Thanks for the replies...

Got it sorted out.


On May 18, 2007, at 7:33 AM, Computer House Support wrote:


Dear Steve,

I have replied to you off-list regarding our discounted renewal  
services for Mesage Sniffer.



Thank you,

Michael Stein
Computer House
609 652-5100
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

- Original Message -
From: Steve Guluk
To: Message Sniffer Community
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 10:26 AM
Subject: [sniffer] Best renewal price and service on Sniffer?

Hello,
I was informed some time back that I needed to renew my  
subscription to Sniffer soon. I sent an email to  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] on May 3rd and never got a response back.


Today is the last day on my subscription. Does anyone have any  
suggestions on where to renew, at the best price?




Regards,


Steve Guluk
SGDesign
(949) 661-9333
ICQ: 7230769








Regards,


Steve Guluk
SGDesign
(949) 661-9333
ICQ: 7230769







[sniffer] Re: Best renewal price and service on Sniffer?

2007-05-18 Thread Computer House Support
Dear Steve,

I have replied to you off-list regarding our discounted renewal services for 
Mesage Sniffer.


Thank you,

Michael Stein
Computer House
609 652-5100
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

  - Original Message - 
  From: Steve Guluk 
  To: Message Sniffer Community 
  Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 10:26 AM
  Subject: [sniffer] Best renewal price and service on Sniffer?


  Hello,
  I was informed some time back that I needed to renew my subscription to 
Sniffer soon. I sent an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] on May 3rd and never got a 
response back.


  Today is the last day on my subscription. Does anyone have any suggestions on 
where to renew, at the best price?






  Regards, 







  Steve Guluk

  SGDesign

  (949) 661-9333

  ICQ: 7230769















[sniffer] Re: Best renewal price and service on Sniffer?

2007-05-18 Thread Darrell (supp...@invariantsystems.com)
You can renew via Declude using the online store.  I have never had a problem 
renewing through the store.  They will ask for your license ID and everything 
from there took care of itself.

Darrell

Check out http://www.invariantsystems.com for utilities for Declude And Imail.  
IMail/Declude Overflow Queue Monitoring, SURBL/URI integration, MRTG 
Integration, and Log Parsers.
  - Original Message - 
  From: Steve Guluk 
  To: Message Sniffer Community 
  Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 10:26 AM
  Subject: [sniffer] Best renewal price and service on Sniffer?


  Hello,
  I was informed some time back that I needed to renew my subscription to 
Sniffer soon. I sent an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] on May 3rd and never got a 
response back.


  Today is the last day on my subscription. Does anyone have any suggestions on 
where to renew, at the best price?






  Regards, 







  Steve Guluk

  SGDesign

  (949) 661-9333

  ICQ: 7230769















[sniffer] Best renewal price and service on Sniffer?

2007-05-18 Thread Steve Guluk

Hello,
I was informed some time back that I needed to renew my subscription  
to Sniffer soon. I sent an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] on May 3rd  
and never got a response back.


Today is the last day on my subscription. Does anyone have any  
suggestions on where to renew, at the best price?




Regards,


Steve Guluk
SGDesign
(949) 661-9333
ICQ: 7230769







[sniffer] Re: Appriver issue

2007-05-18 Thread Pete McNeil
Hello Computer,

Friday, May 18, 2007, 8:34:27 AM, you wrote:

> For those of us in the dark about this, can someone explain who Appriver is,
> and what is has to do with Message Sniffer?

Message Sniffer started out as an incubator project inside of
MicroNeil Research Corporation. When it was time for SNF to grow up
and become it's own company we went looking for partners who could
help it grow.

We searched long and hard and ultimately picked AppRiver for a lot of
good reasons :-) (Note I can still say that after all this time!)

ARM Research Labs, LLC was formed to take over the SNF project.

ARM is jointly owned by both AppRiver and MicroNeil. In order to
capitalize on economies of scale, asymmetrical bandwidth utilization,
and an efficient support infrastructure, a number of servers for ARM
are hosted along side AppRiver servers - this includes the servers
that provide rulebase updates for SNF.

Yesterday's events created a tremendous load on the network and that
caused some packet loss that caused rulebase downloads to slow down
for a time.

For more about ARM see: http://www.armresearch.com/

Hope this helps,

Thanks,

_M

-- 
Pete McNeil
Chief Scientist,
Arm Research Labs, LLC.


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[sniffer] Re: Appriver issue

2007-05-18 Thread Computer House Support
For those of us in the dark about this, can someone explain who Appriver is, 
and what is has to do with Message Sniffer?


Thank you,

Michael Stein
Computer House

- Original Message - 
From: "Kevin Rogers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Message Sniffer Community" 
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 6:45 AM
Subject: [sniffer] Re: Downloads are not working


I sent a message earlier to this list but I'm not sure if it went
through.  We've been hit by this Appriver issue and it is still going on
as far as I can tell.  One of our users, call him [EMAIL PROTECTED]
sent a message to about 70 people.  And this message has been bounced 20
or 30,000 times and counting.  At first I thought it was this Exchange
issue we experienced last year where a single message was sent over and
over.  But then I saw that all the headers of the bounced emails
contained calls to appriver.com and when I checked here I found this thread.

In the end, the only thing I could do was completely remove that user's
account and it appears to be OK.  But who knows?  Things appeared to be
OK from 7pm until 1am PST when it all started up again.

Anyone have any information on this?

Thanks

Kevin



Pete McNeil wrote:
> Hello Matt,
>
> Thursday, May 17, 2007, 2:22:56 PM, you wrote:
>
>
>> Appriver, who is somehow involved with Sniffer, is having a ridicolous
>> problem with sending messages over and over again (once every few
>> seconds).  They pulled their contact information from their site but
>> didn't take down their servers.  I suspect this is putting strain on
>> them and if Sniffer uses their bandwidth for downloads, that could
>> explain things.
>>
>
> I'm not sure what the actual issue is (I will get that data later),
> however I've just been informed that it should be resolved in the next
> 20 minutes or so.
>
> Our rulebase server is on the same network so it is effected.
>
> BTW - they did not take down their contact information. It is right
> where it always has been.
>
> _M
>
>

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[sniffer] Re: Downloads are not working....

2007-05-18 Thread Kevin Rogers
I sent a message earlier to this list but I'm not sure if it went 
through.  We've been hit by this Appriver issue and it is still going on 
as far as I can tell.  One of our users, call him [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
sent a message to about 70 people.  And this message has been bounced 20 
or 30,000 times and counting.  At first I thought it was this Exchange 
issue we experienced last year where a single message was sent over and 
over.  But then I saw that all the headers of the bounced emails 
contained calls to appriver.com and when I checked here I found this thread.


In the end, the only thing I could do was completely remove that user's 
account and it appears to be OK.  But who knows?  Things appeared to be 
OK from 7pm until 1am PST when it all started up again.


Anyone have any information on this?

Thanks

Kevin



Pete McNeil wrote:

Hello Matt,

Thursday, May 17, 2007, 2:22:56 PM, you wrote:

  

Appriver, who is somehow involved with Sniffer, is having a ridicolous
problem with sending messages over and over again (once every few 
seconds).  They pulled their contact information from their site but 
didn't take down their servers.  I suspect this is putting strain on 
them and if Sniffer uses their bandwidth for downloads, that could 
explain things.



I'm not sure what the actual issue is (I will get that data later),
however I've just been informed that it should be resolved in the next
20 minutes or so.

Our rulebase server is on the same network so it is effected.

BTW - they did not take down their contact information. It is right
where it always has been.

_M

  


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