Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2008 07:24:01 -0700
From: Darwin Barrie [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Soaring@airage.com
Subject: Testing
Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I've attempted 2 posts over the past couple of days and they haven't
posted. What's up?
I've had the same issue. I've posted a few times and
My understanding is that drag is reduced a bit if some flaps are
coupled to ailerons, since it reduces the amount of aileron throw,
a bit, and reduces vortexes at the inner edge of the ailerons.
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I saw Mike at the Laguna Niguel slope site today, and he
mentioned they're formalizing a club and sending out emails.
I wrote down my email addy ([EMAIL PROTECTED]), but
was wondering if the club has a web-site or email address
yet.
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I found John Roe's old site, but it was last updated in 1996,
a bit out of date.
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I posted this before but haven't seen in in over a day.
Are there any web sites that describe the physics of an F3J type launch?
Specifically, the climb speeds, zoom speeds, tension in the line,
g forces, ...
I'd also be curious as to how much tension there is in the line from
a F3B winch.
Like many here, I'm finding it hard to get depleted Uranium to
use as ballast in my gliders.
In addition, for LSF level 5 8 hour slope event, I though it
would be clever to use plutionium buttons and a thermal couple
for a power source in the model and transmitter, just like the
onse used in
Are there any web sites that describe the physics of an F3J type launch?
Specifically, the climb speeds, zoom speeds, tension in the line,
g forces, ...
I'd also be curious as to how much tension there is in the line from
a F3B winch.
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New DS world records: 301 mph (Unlimited) and 211 mph (60)
Where can we download and/or buy the video for this day?
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Where can we download and/or buy the video for this day?
http://www.slopeaddiction.com/
I can mirror this video on my web site if the owner of the
video OK's it (until I run out of bandwidth, which is
100GB / month, resetting on the 20th, I have about 40GB
to 50GB of transfer to spare until
Wow, the digest is running slow, I posted this yesterday around 7:00 pm PST
(GMT - 8:00).
Concering the Laguna Niguel slope site.
This just started today. Guard wasn't sure what to do yet, but the owners
association wants to dis-allow street parking for visitors to the public
park (regardless if
Concering the Laguna Niguel slope site.
This just started today. Guard wasn't sure what to do yet, but the owners
association wants to dis-allow street parking for visitors to the public
park (regardless if for glider, hiking, biking, dogs, etc). This would mean
only 3 cars allowed to the park
What about the videos, are they all lost?
I think I may have downloaded one of them.
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Here's a link to a map to Fairview Park:
http://www.1hss.org/hssmap.htm
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Map of Laguna Niguel slope site:
http://jeffareid.net/cgi-bin/lnss.jpg
An old 2 minute video of me flying my DAW 1-26 at this slope site.
During the landing approach, you get a good idea of the view there.
http://jeffareid.net/cgi-bin/jr126.wmv
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From Tustin? Let us assume -moving- traffic for the moment. LOL! Less than 25
minutes down the CA 55 freeway to the I405 freeway north.
You don't need to go all the way north to Brookhurst.
55 south to 405 north.
Exit at Harbor and turn left (south).
Continue south past Baker and Adams.
Turn right
AMA is covering this site with an umbrella policy in addition
to the normal AMA member coverage.
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I'm looking for a pair of Artemis LT wing bolts.
In the process of getting rid of old junk, these got
thrown away. F3X is shutdown until November, and I'm
hoping to get replacements sooner than this.
I've ordered a pair from Icare, but not sure if they
have these or can sell them.
Anyone here in
Nevermind, I found the wing bolts. Thanks to those
of you who replied.
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What weight tubing is used for such applications?
For a molded contest type model, you can use tubing that
has tension around 5 to 6 times the weight of the model,
and get a bit of a zoom launch with it. I use latex rubber
with 2/16 inner 7/16 outer diameter which generates about
24 to 27lb's of
3, or 7 if pc simulators count.
Futaba 4 skysport - used for my very first RC aircraft, a Dymomd Flipper
electric assist glider I got back in 1998. I still fly it occasionally,
but being my first, it's semi retired. Back in 1998, I was one of the
rare rc pilots with an electric model. Now it's
Ideas? My latest thoughts are either the Art Hobby JK Thermik 2.5m (winchable?
I have a Art Hobby Sierra, for the price, it's a great model, just used
laquer on the sheeted wings because the sheeting looks so nice. I went
for 6 channel setup. The model weighs about 3.25 pounds, so you'll have
There's an article on this in the current issue of
Quiet and Electric Flight International. Shows
the FAI F3J setup.
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There used to be a ride at Disneyland sponsored by Monsanto..
It was Adventure Thru Inner Space...
You can check out
http://www.yesterland.com
for all the rides that are no more...
I can still remember, the snow flake is melting... we have to
return...
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OK old timers, does anyone remember when they had control line aircraft
demos in Fantasyland? It must've been in 1959, when I came out to
California with my folks, that I saw those little planes.
I remember those, they flew in an area with a tall circular chain link
fence. They did a type of
I received an apparent soaring related email with an attachment
January 12 Jeff letter.doc.pif, the name being an attempt to
disguise the fact that it was a windows program, not a document,
or program information file (batch file). Windows would have
run this program as a .pif file is the
Similar to other post, the DAW 1-26 2m. My favorite slope
model. Lots of fun, no stress...
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Just a good old spot landing.
Oh darn... we have quite a few dorks in our soaring club, and
it's been tough trying to teach them how to land. I was hoping
you had figured out a method based on the subject.
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I'm flying a 2 channel poly and when I'm thermalling
it does not want to hold it's bank angle. I end up
feeding constant rudder input
This is the nature of most polyhedral models. If you
want to reduce or eliminate this, make the vertical
stabilizer a bit larger (or reduce the overall dihedral
I have a web page for Futaba programming at:
http://members.cox.net/jeffareid/futaba.htm
Look at the initial transmitter setup section,
it explains how to get full flap throw from the
throttle stick (butterfly/crow mode).
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Well it looks like the ISP that I have had for the past 6 years is going
under so just incase I will need to how do I get back on RCSE?
I had to do the same a while back. Get a hotmail account, that way
you'll have an email address that won't change if you change ISP's
again later on. (I us both
- How can we make sure, or at least fairly sure, this won't happen
again?
Silly as it sounds, why not put sling shots and steel marbles in every
seat? Individually not much damage can be done, but passengers as group
could subdue a few individuals with knives. This or any other majority
rules
No problems with a Futaba R148DF receiver. This could still
be an issue with other receivers.
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Check out http://www.hollyday.com/rubberdata.htm for some
tension versus strain data (depends on tubing cross sectional
area). These numbers very closely match what I measured with
standard latex tubing.
Another common size for tubing is 3/16 inch inner diameter, 5/16
inch outer diameter, with a
A glide polar is a graph that relates airspeed and sinkrate.
For a good graphic of this take a look at:
http://www.monmouth.com/~jsd/fly/how/htm/power.html#toc127
These graphs also include the non parabolic portions of the
glide (power curve) (the parts in the stall regime).
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{sorry, posted without entering proper subject, reposting with text cleaned up}
Differential aileron and rudder coupling are used to limit the effects
of adverse yaw, NOT a pitching moment.
Actually, I think what he was implying is that the aileron differntial
that's used to counter
balance the lift and drag on both wings
Forgot to mention, aileron differential can balance drag, but
only for a limited range of airspeed. Again, I assume that
the goal is efficient thermal turns (not high speed turns),
so this speed range limitation is not much of an issue.
F3B gliders have
Coordinated flight produces the minimum drag flight condition.
How you get it is not all that important.
Wouldn't minimal surface deflections, a combination of ailerons,
flaps, rudder, and possibly elevator, reduce drag during a
roll?
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Have a question/comments about zoom launches w/braided line. First
off it seems many, myself included, go too deep in the zoom when
launching off of braided line. I have noticed that what little
energy is stored in braided line is best utilized w/more of a real
quick ping rather than
As an aside, note that one can achieve very close to zero g flight within a
gravitational field by flying an approximately parabolic flight path. This
is done with large jet transports for astronaut training. As far as the
airplane is concerned, this is very much the same as flying within a
A glider rule: feeding in down elevator can cure a
lot of problems. (In otherwords, keep the fuselage
horizontal or nose down, avoid letting it get nose up).
about a quarter of the way up, I began to panic
because the wind was pushing the plane so hard
Whenever you start getting into trouble on
Is there someplace where I can read about, in as much detail as I can
stand,
the dynamics of an aileron turn?
Here is one, check out section 8.7
http://www.monmouth.com/~jsd/how/htm/yaw.html#toc151
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Using a 50 ft piece of rubber and some nylon line (50 ft ?) to create an
upstart (or mini-hi-start), what is the normal max stretch allowed. I heard
3 to 1. Is that 100 ft of stretch making the final length of the rubber
150 ft or is the stretch itself 3 to 1 making the stretch 150 ft and the
I think this was mentioned once before, but check out
NASA's APEX project. They plan on releasing a glider
from a ballon at 100,000 feet (thin atmospheric
aerodynamics, possible mars flight/glide usage).
It was a pain to find these web sites, but now
I have them saved...
Smaller wing chord's reduce Reynolds numbers, which affect the way an
airfoil responds. To compensate, you'd need more air speed (which
increases Reynolds number). This is part of the reason that HLG
contest models have much lower aspect ratios than unlimited gliders,
a high aspect ratio 1.5
Where should the rudder control go ?
Left stick, left/right throw...
As I've understood from some messages on RCSE and also in articles, the
primary turning-control should be on the right hand, with the elevator, and
that's what I'm used to do. I'm used to fly in mode II.
This is correct,
Other component options:
Line: I'd recommend 40 pound test monofilament fishing line.
You don't need the strength, but it's less prone to tangle than
the lighter stuff. It also doesn't twist due to tension.
Hi-start seamless rings: Go to pet store, buy two choke chains for
small dogs, cut or
In all the F3J contests I've seen, there are no turnaround stakes being
used: just the two pullers, the line and the model. Are turnaround used
in some F3J events?
Another option would be to chain a weight to the stake. The amount of
weight would depend on the max pull tension. More weight would
why would it be better to lose rudder control vs. elevator control?
A properly trimmed sailplane should only need rudder inputs before
zooming on tow...even then it's only a very mild dive-entry
I was referring to contest style zooom launches, like F3J.
Dive entry is not mild at all.
I WANT to try Bowman's JW airfoil, but no one on this exchange has been
forthcoming with the coordinates. :(
This site shows a flying wing airfoil (5010), it might help.
http://www.lerc.nasa.gov/Other_Groups/K-12/airplane/wrong1.html
I am unsure as to how much washout I should plan to
wing at a positive angle of attack
making the distance over the top of the wing greater and
the distance on the bottom of the wing less between the
forward and aft stagnation points. This increases the velocity
and reduces the pressure over the top of the wing and reduces the
velocity and
Updated this page again to include the reasoning
(at least in my opinion) behind the setup procedure.
http://home.pacbell.net/jeffreid/futaba6.htm
Yes, this could be considered a shameless plug,
but there are no banners, commercials, any
links to other sites, or even "hit" counters.
Just plain
Just got done with this. Explains how to program the Futaba 8U
transmitters for a typical 6 channel (full-house) glider.
The "tweak" stuff is my own invention to get around the
limitation in the flap-aileron mix that has a maximum mix
value of 100%. I created instructions for dealing with
...aileron control rods on top...
This is the way my DAW 1-26 is setup, shouldn't be a problem.
I don't take the wing out of my DAW 1-26, since it fits in
my car (sideways). If you have to remove the wing, you either
need to remove one of the rods and aileron clevices, or make
a notch in the
Helping out a friend to replace a broken 50 inch built
up glider. Would prefer one with a wing with leading
edge sheeting (top and bottom if available). Receiver
and servos can optional (as long as control rods or
cables are installed...)
Hoping to get one RTF for around $80 to $100, or
more if
I used some standard aluminum foil to wrap the nose weights
in my Sierra 2.5 This is about 8 inches away from the receiver.
Can this cause some type of receiver problem?
(I use the foil to create a "form" and to keep the lead pieces
in place, rest of nose is soft foam pieces and receiver battery
I used some standard aluminum foil to wrap the nose weights
in my Sierra 2.5 This is about 8 inches away from the receiver.
Can this cause some type of receiver problem?
Just did a "full range" check, it seemed to be OK.
(We live on a hill, I leave the transmitter at home, and I drive
down
is required).
I have calculated the energy that goes into lifting the high start rubber
into the air. This does make a minor difference in launch height, but not
enough to explain what Angel and Jeff Reid have observed.
I need to amend my "observations". In still air, my revised "gue
With my GL, I started "highstarting" with a Dynaflite 2M
Upstart and then graduated to an NSP Standard Hi-start
Upstart has 30' of latex and 200' of line with a tension
of 7 pounds. The Hi-start has 100' of latex and 400'
of line at a tension of 15 pounds. The first launch of
the GL with
What will be the best way to hookup and activate the tow release? The radio
config is as follows:
ch 1- throt-spoil 2- left ail 3- elev 4- rudd
5- right ail-gear 6- left flap 7- right flap 8- batt
Are you sure about these channel settings?
"standard" settings:
1-ailerons 2-elevator
...using reflex on RG15
...all responses so far say reflex helps...
Thanks for the comments, I'll leave the reflex programming
enabled on my speed switch then...
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crow (or spoileron control) from the throttle stick using
the AIRBRAKE setting.
My Futaba manual describes this as the Butterfly setting.
Airbrake is switch "C" in ACRO (not a glider mode).
If you want variable camber on the throttle stick then use
...LANDING switch is in the off
I have the
Short version:
Where do the F3J guys buy their parachutes (and can I
buy a couple)? (Like the ones I saw a the last F3J contest
in Costa Mesa, CA - Harbor Soaring Society.)
Long version (history of chutes I have tried).
I have a Sierra 2.5 that I launch with a hi-start made up of
60 feet of
I should have thought of this before...WWW.F3X.COM,
Composite Specialties, accessories section.
I'll try one of these...
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What brand servos are you using? A lot of us
here in NZ are having this exact problem. I'm
pretty sure it's not the Rx as some use Futaba,
some JR, some PCM, some FM. The one thing in
common is that all the servos have blue cases...
I have 4 hitec HS85MG servos in the wings, and two hitec
Air can go from dry to about 4% to 5% water vapor (depending
on temperature, pressure). Air mixed with water vapor is less
dense (mass per unit volume) than dry air (even if at the same
pressure if I remember correctly).
This means that foggy air is is less "viscous" than dry air.
Lift and drag
The stuff about the stab being more sensative to the change in effective
AOA is bunk then?
No, if the glider were flying slow enough, and/or if the updraft is strong
enough, then the momentary increase in AOA during the accleration period
before the glider re-stabilizes will cause the glider to
I am setting up my brand spankin new Ki61 DAW foamie warbird and have the
ailerons set to channels one and 6. I have them enabled via flapperon and
want the ailerons to droop when I input up elevator. I have it setup now,
but whenever I input down elevator, the ailerons move upwards. Is this
Don't know about including the slope angle, but for a given angle of attack,
the flight speed goes up as the square root of the wing loading.
Slope angle remains about the same (unless you reach some extreme weight
limitation). Forwards speed increases by the square root of the increase
in
T6XA, Hitec 555 Rx, 2 aileron servos, elevator, throttle. Can this be done
with the T6XA?
Check out this web site for how to modify the 555:
http://www.users.uswest.net/~slickraft/slickraft2_5a.htm
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I've just given my DAW 1-26 2m its maiden flight and it won't loop. When I
put it into a dive, get some speed up, then give it full up elevator
Elevator throw should be about 1/2 inch up and 1/2 inch down (from the
manual). Make sure you don't have too much throw.
To check for "nose heavy",
Forgot to mention this, while "trimming" your 1-26, rather than
ripping open the nose to remove weights, you can just add weights
to the fuselage instead. To determine where to add weight, find
the center of gravity (you can just hold up the glider from
underneath the wings to do this), and mark
Subject: V-tailflapperonJR8103hitec555 is it possible?
I am completing the construction of a DJ Aerotec Wizard and thought I would
be able to do the V-tail and flapperon setup with a Hitec 555 rec and the JR
8103 transmitter. Well, my head is spinning wading through the manual, it
Launching horizontally can probably be done with almost no throw
I should have put more emphasis on the "probably" part of this
post. I didn't mean to imply that not throwing was a recommended
technique, it was just to point out that with a horizontal launch,
a bad throw won't usually turn out
I hold the glider in a throwing position, but let the winch
"trigger" my throw, which, is pretty close to just letting the
winch do the work.
More clarification, I am throwing, it's just usually the winch
is pulling just a bit faster than my throw. (If I threw faster
than the winch pulled,
I wouldn't recommend trying any aerobatics on a glider that
wasn't built strong enough (wing and fuselage) to handle the
G forces of a steep dive or loop (which can be the result
of an aborted roll). Given this warning, there are many
polyhedral/rudder/elevator gliders capable of rolling.
I've
Check out "chapter 8" at this web site:
http://www.monmouth.com/~jsd/fly/how/htm/airfoils.html
This site has an interesting explanation for roll/adverse yaw effect
using a pitcheron/wingeron setup to explain it.
A summary of the info related to roll/yaw:
There are two types of yaw
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