Attention: Bill Ryan and All Others
Thanks Bill, for the material on Eimar O'Duffy. If you haven't read his
Life and Money, do try to locate a copy. I'm sure you will find it a
delightful experience to read: Life and Money by Eimar O'Duffy
(London: Putnam, Third Edition, Revised, October,
Wally comments in reply to Sue's questions and observations:
I would sincerely suggest that before you engage in all sorts of
speculations and imaginings about Social Credit that you do a thorough
reading of authoritative Social Credit literature--with priority given
to the works of the late
Bill--sorry for this belated response to your comments of January 29,
2003:
My understanding of Social Credit is that it is to entirely eliminate
the need for consumer debt over the global (i.e., national) economy.
You have asked somewhere if I would have one wait thirty or so years
before
Wally briefly comments re Victor Bridger's observations below and and
subsequent two messages:
I much appreciate your comments below re Social Credit and the policy
of a philosophy, etc. Some people seem so infected with the warm
fuzzies that they completely depart from the reality that not
From: Wallace M. Klinck [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: John Gelles [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Social Credit PDF files.
Date: Tuesday, March 04, 2003 1:28 AM
Dear John Gelles (and Others):
I am forwarding these PDF files (The A + B Theorem by Northridge and
Social Credit Principles by Major Clifford Hugh
There has been some recent discussion about Social Credit suggesting
that its origins were derived from Guild Socialism.
My understanding is that A. R. Orage, publisher of the Guild Socialist
intellectual journal The New Age, had nagging doubts about centralizing
tendencies in Guild Socialism
I would certainly concur. One does not wish to load the site with
unnecessary text, but it would be most helpful if conrtibutors and their
messages were clearly connected so that one knows what one is replying
to without having to do a long historical search.
Sincerely
Wally
Victor Bridger
In The General Theory, Keynes suggests that Douglas expressed mere
mysticism. No doubt Keynes was well aware of the actual nature of the A
+ B Theorem. He chose not to challenge the system. Beatrice and Sydney
Webb, fellow Fabian Socialists, had said that they were not concerned
about the
My previous posting included the last three pages (67-69) of Chapter 8
(The Remedy) of The Struggle for Money by H.M.M. I am now posting
the rest of this chapter (pages 60-66)in the hope that this material may
be helpful to Jessop Sutton (and others) who has appealed for help in
understanding
Hello Jessop! (and Others)
I sympathize with you and have posted the remainder (first part) of
Chapter 8 (The Remedy) from H.M.M.'s THE STRUGGLE FOR MONEY hoping
that this may answer some of your questtions. When a bank makes a loan
or purchases a security it creates new credit-money; when it
Sorry, below should read we need NOT the creation of incomes through
wasteful and destructive activity, et.
Wally
Wallace M. Klinck wrote:
Hello Jessop! (and Others)
I sympathize with you and have posted the remainder (first part) of
Chapter 8 (The Remedy) from H.M.M.'s THE STRUGGLE
Wally inserts some comments:
Victor Bridger wrote:
On 26th March Keith Wilde wrote in response to Curtiss priest:
The question for Social Credit, as you have allowed in your text, is
just how far were these ideas understood by Douglas, and how deeply
ingrained are they in the third
In his proposal for implementation Social Credit in a small country or
at the municipal level, Michael listed three areas of Social Credit that
he feels have not been adequately presented, one of these being the
subject of external trade. Perhaps it would be wise to explore this
aspect as an
To Fellow Participants:
I agree with Joe Thompson, Vic Bridger, Michael Lane, et al., that the
term Social Credit is appropriate to identify the ideas advanced by C.H.
Douglas. In this, I have to disagree with my good friends, the
Dunfords, who suggested a name change, possibly to Economic
Some General Observations:
As explained in Social Credit terms, the deficiency of consumer
purchasing-power is proportionate to the displacement of labor by
technology. That is, to the increasing ratio of capital to labor in the
production process, as this is registered in industrial
Yes, indeed! We are at war with the policy of the current financial
system--and the financial system is at war with Civilization.
Moreover,because of the financial system all the elements and sectors of
society are at war, one with the other--all because of a misguided
Puritan philosophy
DEAR SUBSCRIBERS: Some comments are inserted. Replies are welcome.
WALLY
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Not a buildup of goods--that wasn't the proposition.
Producers cut back on production and sell at some
price what has been produced.
[WALLY: They cannot long sell below cost and remain
TO ALL SUBSCRIBERS: Below is an excerpt from H.M. Murray, an original
Social Credit author and colleague of Major Douglas, which deals with a
number of Social Credit issues which recently have been the subject of
discussion and/or debate. Wally
H.M.M. (H. M. Murray), THE STRUGGLE FOR
Joe and Bill, (Attention also all other members of the forum)
Thanks for your messages. Murray was an original Social Crediter and
wrote, among other things, An Outline of Social Credit (London: New
Age Press, 1929) and The A+B Theorem (London: Stanley Knott Ltd.,
1935). Douglas wrote a
Attention: Bill
=20
I am forwarding the following as per your request. Thanks for=20
converting it from PDF to readable text herein. I hope that it may give=
=20
a somewhat different and expanded view of Murray's book. The material=20
also may help to answer certain questions arising on the
Bill,
I agree that Murray's A + B Theorem is an excellent treatment of the
subject--and it has been a classic in Social Credit literature. It is
more formal than THE STRUGGLE FOR MONEY which appears to be a call to
arms--indeed a declaration of war by a man who has seen the terrible
Re my previous posting of Chapter 8, The Remedy, from Murray's THE
STRUGGLE FOR MONEY:
Please note that where figures are quoted and preceded by an A, this
means British Pounds. In the paragraph beginning The same pathetic and
brainless, etc. the word cliches is mispelled. Also, please
Some general comments made to a correspondent outside the discussion
group. Comments in square brackets [] have been added. Note the
references to Binary Economics:
Dear [ ]:
The association of Social Credit with the political party gathered some
earlier more sound elements who preceded
Keith Wilde has written, in reference to the Austrian School and
presumably, therefore, to the ideas presented by the late Ludwig von
Mises:
It is not out of date if it is still the paradigm. And just because you
have stated a different position doesn't mean that you are right. I
detect
Attention All Subscribers:
I have just received communication from John Hornsby in the United
Kingdom indicating that an almost full set of The New Age has been
shipped to the University of Calgary. A widespread expressed interest
might possibly help to encourage and expedite the conversion
All Subscribers (special attention Bill and Ken)
In the book Fifty Years of Social Credit: 1919 - 1969 published by the
Social Credit Co-ordinating Centre, Montagu Chambers, Mexborough,
Yorkshire appears a black and white print of Augustus John's portrait of
C.H. Douglas. This it is said had
Testing ability to post a message--having difficulties.
Wally
--^
This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?a84IaC.bcVIgP.YXJjaGl2
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The following, Chapter 5, is taken from the book Warning Democracy
(Third Edition) by C. H. Douglas (London: Stanley Nott, 1935).
THE GOLD STANDARD AND INTERNATIONAL EXCHANGE
by Major Clifford Hugh Douglas
It must be within the experience of most people who have endeavoured to
popularise
n. When we
act upon a misapprehension of reality we are in error. When we continue to
do it regardless of negative results, the reasonable supposition is that we are
psychotic.
Sincerely
Wally
- Original Message -
From:
Ekky
Irion
To: Wesley S. Burt ; Wallace M. Kli
To all Members:
Social Credit aims for a consumer-motivated economy in the greatest
possible sense. The Social Credit conception of economic democracy
lies in exercise of maximal, effective consumer choice (money votes)
rather than in the ownership and/or administration of productive
The Land Question has been discussed recently. The following is
offered for information:
MAJOR DOUGLAS ON THE LAND QUESTION
The following comments are taken from C. H. Douglass The Land for the
(Chosen) People Racket written serially in The Social Crediter between
December 1942 and March
Bill--in answer to your request I attach hereto a PDF file of Douglas's
Dunedin, New Zealand address of 1934. The quality is not great but it
is quite readable. I believe the date is March 5, 1934 but this is not
given in this reprint by The Social Credit Standard (No. 9, July-August,
1934)
Attention: Jessop (and Others)
The National Dividend is an unconditional inheritance due to each citizen.
It is to be paid to everyone regardless of age, sex, economic circumstances
or any other consideration--to millionaires and paupers, who have a right to
dispose of it as they see fit.
Subscribers to this list may be interested in going to the Canadian
Broadcasting website: www.cbc.ca/biznet and searching the archives for
Jim Bray, Sept. 11/03 -- Technofile. A musing about how technology may
make the 40-hour work week obsolete. Real Audio is required to play
the audio
I agree essentially with Bill's comments below. Any attempt to institute a
National Dividend on the basis of recovery involves taxation. Under a
Social Credit dispensation, the Dividend is automatically cancelled when it
passes back from the consumer to industry and the banks with adjustments in
Thanks Jessop--I believe you do!
Sincerely
Wally
- Original Message -
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 10:52 AM
Subject: Re: [SOCIAL CREDIT] National Dividend Means Test?: Wally comments
To all, but mainly to Bill and Wally
Okay, chaps
Comments made to another site where the suggestion
had been made that co-operatives are a superior "model" or form of business
organization or structure:
To All,
As I previously stated, anyone who wants to belong
to a "formal" co-operative is free to do so. I do not believe, however,
The following comments were posted on another site where the suggestion
had been made that co-operatives are a superior model or structure for
business organization:
To All,
As I previously stated, anyone who wants to belong to a formal
co-operative is free to do so. I do not believe,
Bill,
Many thanks for your previous comments and for your efforts with regard to
preparing the Douglas file for downloading and playing in RealOne. I have
downloaded and installed the program and downloaded the file. It sounds
very good except where Douglas compares the making of money by banks
Thanks Joe, (and attention Bill)
Inasmuch that you had difficulty but success
through persevering, I will try again. I downloadedthe Media Player
without difficulty and have played another file from a recent CBC broadcast
(THIS IS ATTACHED FOR YOUR INTEREST)without any problems. I'm sure
To Prof. Pat Gunning, Bill Ryan--and/or other interested parties:
Prof. Gunnning asks what remedial measures Social Credit proposes to
deal with an alleged chronic, or inherent, disparity between financial
costs and financial incomes. This is with regard to the existing system
of industrial
for the reference. I will not try to read it until I understand a
bit more about the reasoning from you or William.
After I understand the policies better and the reasoning behind them, I
will be able to comment on them.
Wallace M. Klinck wrote:
To Prof. Pat Gunning, Bill Ryan
Hello Bill,
I have been unable to find the information which you asked for re the
Alaska Provisional Governing Council. However, I have managed to locate
the following information on the Alaska Inter-Tribal Council which I
hope may be helpful, although I doubt that it is exactly what you were
Dear Members of the Discussion Group:
Social Credit is opposed to the policies of central economic planning
and state ownership of the means of production. Social credit asserts
that the essential problems of production have been solved long ago and
that the primary economic problem is
Bill, Prof. Gunning and Other Subscribers:
I, personally, do not know much about the use of credit to subsidize lower
prices in wartime australia. My source is: A Programme for Reversing
Inflation (24 pages), a pamphlet published in 1976 by the The Institute of
Economic Democracy, a specialist
Attention Bill:
Sorry to double-post the message re consumer discounts in Australia.
The first seemed delayed and I thought it might not have gone through.
You might like to purge the first one which has a broken subject title.
Wally
Fellow Subscribers:
I agree that genuine debate involves first of all an attempt to get at
the precise truth of matters. Social Credit attempts to bind back to
reality in a most fundamental sense and its policies should be able to
stand rigid logical examination, which many years of study
, a tireless advocate for Social Credit as Douglas had
presented it.
This edition of The Alberta Experiment is readily available for $12.00
each, postpaid, in Canadian dollars: Send a money-order for that amount
to Wallace M. Klinck, C.H. Douglas Social Credit, P.O. Box 3003,
Sherwood Park, AB
the originator
aimed to achieve. WALLY: OBVIOUSLY THE PURPOSE WAS TO STIMULATE
DISCUSSION AND AWARENESS OF SOCIAL CREDIT OVER A WIDER AUDIENCE. But I
will be happy to bow out at any time if he finds my ideas or words
unpalatable.
Wallace M. Klinck wrote:
I think that Prof. Gunning
To Prof. Gunning and Others:
Please note that in my previous post replying to Prof. Gunning,
paragraph starting Bill proposes, third and fourth last lines, the
text should read wherein everyone is NOT scrambling, etc. Sorry for
the error.
Sincerely
Wally
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