Having personally built a number of Pig Launchers for PPG latex paint in
cheswold DE. In the 70's I can tell you that this is a labor intensive
activity, and not to be used except as a last resort. In these paint plants
the pigs were launched using HP compressed air, but you could use water. The
The 10 fps applies only to option 2, not all the options. As long as
you meet any ONE of the options, where's the beef?
The objective is to keep loose objects in the main from potentially
blocking the sprinkler system. Option 2 assures us that we will
remove the loose objects. The other
So if the max. velocity is only 2fps there's no issue?
Then why the talk of 10fps in the appendix with mention of high velocity and
Table relating to 10fps?
If any velocity was acceptable then why not just say it doesn't matter or say
nothing at all?
Craig L. Prahl, CET
Fire Protection
The key is the requirement states it shall not be less than ANY one of
the following.
Therefore, the very minimum flow rate will be 10ft/sec line velocity.
If your system cannot under any condition flow a minumum of 10ft/sec
then you would have to get a ruling from the AHJ to allow that.
Nuff
Whatever proceedure is used,an issue just as important is for someone in
authority to follow through to assure that the flushing actually is done.And
this should be done by the installing contractor of all the main underground
piping,not the sprinkler contractor who is only responsible for the
And I never suggested pigging. I said that if the purpose of the flush
was to scrub the interior walls of the pipe and you couldn't get a
sufficient velocity to do so then you could pig. And for some
relatively short UG lead-in you could drag pig. But the crux was why
would you be descaling newly
I have a 16' x 23' press pit on a project I'm working on. The press will
fill up most of the whole width, length and depth. There are no tunnels or
other access to this pit and I am trying to find out if there will be a
cover over the floor or open with guard rails around it. I am contacting the
What it actually says is: shall not be less than ONE of the
following. So as long as you meet ANY one of the following you comply.
As for why all the discussion on 10 ft/s, that is the golden rule and
they had to talk about something so they talked a lot about that.
What about all the
With all due respect, I don't see the word 'any' anywhere in 10.10.2.1.3.
I'm looking at the 2010 version, maybe older versions contain the word
'any'.
Ed Kramer
Littleton, CO
-Original Message-
From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-
I agree with Roland. Not less than one of the following. It does not
state pick the highest. You can use ANY one of the procedures.
John
John August Denhardt, P.E.
Strickland Fire Protection Incorporated
5113 Berwyn Road
College Park, Maryland 20740
Office Telephone Number: 301-474-1136
The local AHJ wouldn't know the difference between Velocity and Velociraptor so
no point even going there.
So for the next NFPA 24 go-round they need to change the wording in the
flushing section to just say that the minimum rate is whatever you can git
outta the pipes and be done with it.
I think you are headed in the right direction. The insurance company
should give you the right idea of what to do, barring and FPE being involved.
Also, look for any combustibles in the space. anything from the
machine (oils, etc)? or presence of anything else, including the
possibility of
The 2007 says the flow rate shall be not less than ONE of the following:
Craig L. Prahl, CET
Fire Protection Specialist
Mechanical Department
CH2MHILL
Lockwood Greene
1500 International Drive
PO Box 491, Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491
Direct - 864.599.4102
Fax - 864.599.8439
If there is no specific requirement, the whole paragraph becomes irrelevant.
Craig L. Prahl, CET
Fire Protection Specialist
Mechanical Department
CH2MHILL
Lockwood Greene
1500 International Drive
PO Box 491, Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491
Direct - 864.599.4102
Fax - 864.599.8439
Oh come on Craig, any AHJ knows that a Velociraptor is the rate of velocity
that a rock travel as it wraps around the pipe. Duh!!! :-)
Bob K
-Original Message-
From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org
[mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of
Thanks, there are hydraulic hoses etc on the machine, all over the machine,
but other than that there are no loose materials etc. Just the possibility
of leaks or trash.
Bobby Gillett
Sr. Project Manager
Key Fire Protection, Inc.
(731) 424-0130 office (731) 424-9285 fax
(731) 267-4853 cell
Boeing would have the pits sprinklered. They would call out OH
sidewalls back when none existed. We'd then argue it din't matter if
there were deflectors or not 'cause we'd just be filling the pit up
with water anyways. Spray patterns would be irrelevant and so the
question to the engineers would
Now you don't really mean that. These are three reasonable criteria
and even the option (3) ensures you don't simply open an 1 inch ITV
and say that's all I can flow. Conversely, option 3 cn also flow way
beyond what is needed. The DOE plant where I served a long term
sentence had a
Yesterday I received a call from a local Sprinkler Contractor who had an
unusual request of him by a local Plumbing Inspector from a Vermont
Municipality. The Sprinkler Contractor had requested a construction permit
to install a Back Flow Preventor (BFP) on an existing Sprinkler System
riser. The
This typically becomes more of a licensing issue than a code driven issue.
Check the state or local licensing laws on BFP's or contact the local water
purveyor. There are places where you must be certified to test but
installation of such is not restricted to plumbers only.
Craig L.
I guess all of those story problems in school have application that you
must read ALL of the problem.but I don't feel comfortable with
picking a choosing which one to apply. If your hydraulic demand is 500
gpm, but your underground will provide 1500 I would not allow a flush of
700gpm. I
Thanks again for the reminder. I have two distinct email addresses so
I can vote twice a day if I do it at work instead of at home.
On Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 11:40 AM, Steve Leyton
st...@protectiondesign.com wrote:
Please take a few seconds and cast a yes vote at the following site:
I'd stick with the insurance carrier to see what they recommend. At
Caterpillar, like Boeing, the pits would be sprinklered and the insurance
carrier, i.e. FM Global, provided the criteria. On some occasions we were
allowed to use an extra hazard pipe schedule for small pits and the
Yeah! It's the lizard that blows out of the open end of the pipe when you
open the the supply valve!
And Craig they do have a rule and it has three different ways to be applied,
that's all. There's no minimum for (3) because you've used the maximum
available.
Thom McMahon, SET
Firetech, Inc.
In Washington the requirement for evaluating an existing system when a
backflow retrofit is required is in the health code. I know this
because I got it in there after a screaming match about what was the
worse health issue, potentially poor smelling/tasting water or elderly
dead people. This
The reason #3 is so popular is that it is so simple to apply in the field.
Step#1: Open supply valve to riser. (Always direct water flow to a safe
location.)
Step#2: Allow full flow until water runs clear or for at least 2 minutes.
Step#3: Close supply valve and cap riser, you're done flushing.
The issue:
IPC 2006, 606.5.5 A low-pressure cutoff shall be installed on all booster
pumps in a water pressure booster system to prevent creation of a vacuum or
negative pressure on the suction side of the pump when a positive pressure of
10 psi (68.94 kPa) or less occurs on the suction side
Care facility designed to NFPA 13, 2002. Residential heads in patient rooms
and adjacent corridors. All other rooms with non-residential qr heads. A
corridor opens to a dining room. There are no walls separating them. Any
problems using res. heads in the dining room? I'm trying to use res. heads
Presumably the fire pump only runs when there is a fire, i.e.:
emergency, (not counting various tests). Since a low pressure
condition is ultimately an exposure issue (my pump effects your stuff)
and so is the fire (my fire effects your community) and the pump is a
measure to mitigate against the
Tony, for what it's worth, the commentary to section 8.4.5.1 says Where
corridors serve dwelling unit areas and other adjoining spaces, residential
sprinklers would not be permitted within the corridor. The FAQ located in
the margin next to that commentary asks Is it the intent of 8.4.5 to allow
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