RE: QR sprinklers

So does this mean I can use a head only listed for light hazard occupancies? What if I want to use a EC sprinkler that is QR listed for light hazard up to 20x20 but only QR listed in OH occupancies up to 14x14? Can I use these at 18x18? Can a standard throw sprinkler still go 225 sf? Use the sm

Trophy Show Case

I have a project that has a Trophy Show Case that has a sprinkler in front of it about 8" away, my thoughts are not to provide a sprinkler inside it. Has anyone had this situation before? Mike Hairfield

Re: Trophy Show Case

At 08:09 AM 11/9/2009, you wrote: > I have a project that has a Trophy Show Case that has a sprinkler > in front of it about 8" > >away, my thoughts are not to provide a sprinkler inside it. > > > >Has anyone had this situation before? > > > >Mike Hairfield Check with the local. I don't believ

RE: QR sprinklers

If it is not listed as QR, then you cannot use it for LH. I understand what you are saying. Been there, done that on more than one occasion. It IS light Hazard, not ordinary. 5.2 (A5.2), 2002 edition. That covers the listing. The flows, small room rule and the like are for discussion with the one w

RE: Trophy Show Case

See 8.1.1 number (7) in the 07 edition Matt Matthew J. Willis, CET Automatic Fire Sprinklers Norred Fire Systems L.L.C. 318-387-1134 Voice 318-387-1163 Facsimile m...@norredfire.com -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firespr

RE: Trophy Show Case

Thanks, I knew it was in NFPA somewhere! Mike > From: m...@norredfire.com > To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org > Subject: RE: Trophy Show Case > Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 07:29:22 -0600 > > See 8.1.1 number (7) in the 07 edition > > Matt > > > Matthew J. Willis, CET > Automatic Fire Sp

RE: QR sprinklers

So if the EOR ups the design criteria for an area based on a potentially increased hazard due to specific uses but to the contractor/designer it still looks like plain old offices, the designer designs it per LH spacing and design rules but applies OH densities? Craig L. Prahl, CET Fire P

Re: QR sprinklers

Pretty much yes. But don't assume the EOR just assumes increased hazard. Military buildings have a habit of changing use and so the EOR may want layout and density that works for OH rather than just what it is now. You can always use QR in either. Remember that the Government wants value (i.e.: goo

QR vs SSP sprinklers in LH vs OH delivery

NIST did some burns back in the 80´s with GSA money. Prairee dog 3/4 high walls, office plastics, paper, radiation enhancement from the semi-enclosure made the researchers rethink LH for newer, modular office areas. First off, this is not a life safety issue, practically. Because fire deaths

site elevation

I was wondering how others handle this situation. A lot of the projects I end up with have very limited information, especially on additions or renovations. I may get a water test info some distance from the site. How do the rest of you go about determining the elevation difference between the

RE: site elevation

I have used Google Earth to determine elevation differences between the site and the test hydrant's. BTW, I have compared Google Earth and a site plan's elevations before and they are very close. Mike Brown Project Designer Sunland Fire Protection 1218 Elon Place High Point, NC 27263 Ph. 336.886.

RE: site elevation

Really, just about all plans I see have first floor elevation. One option might be the water utility. They should have elevations of all hydrants. So if your test is a bit away but there is one on site that can get you close. If they don't have elevations you can figure difference is static press

Re: site elevation

Take a look at http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/ It will give you elevations, at least in most populated areas. Ed On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 7:54 AM, Todd Williams wrote: > I was wondering how others handle this situation. A lot of the > projects I end up with have very limited information, especial

RE: site elevation

That's excellent, Ed- Thank you. USGS right on your screen, printable, for free. glc -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Ed Vining Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 11:05 AM To: sprinklerforum@fires

RE: site elevation

Interesting. I can't open the topo maps on my computer At 11:25 AM 11/9/2009, you wrote: >That's excellent, Ed- Thank you. >USGS right on your screen, printable, for free. > >glc > >-Original Message- >From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org >[mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firespri

RE: site elevation

And just watch the grade lines. Last I was there it was like 20' or so and I found it to not be very useful for me. 10 psi is a big deal in these parts. Chris Cahill, P.E. Fire Protection Engineer Sentry Fire Protection, Inc. 763-658-4483 763-658-4921 fax Email: chr...@sentryfiremn.com Ma

RE: site elevation

Don't you have to download an overlay to get topos on GE? At 10:59 AM 11/9/2009, you wrote: >I have used Google Earth to determine elevation differences between the >site and the test hydrant's. BTW, I have compared Google Earth and a >site plan's elevations before and they are very close. > >Mik

Ceiling Pockets

Forum, Are ceiling pockets considered anything over 36" deep? Thanks, BH ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For T

RE: site elevation

Point your cursor to the point you want to check and elevation shows up at the bottom of the screen Mike Brown Project Designer Sunland Fire Protection 1218 Elon Place High Point, NC 27263 Ph. 336.886.7027 Ext. 140 Fax: 336.886.7024 WWW.SUNLANDFIRE.COM -Original Message- From: sprinkler

RE: Trophy Show Case

The kicker to that section is how do we define what is and what isn't furniture. By definition (as Merriam-Webster sees it), furniture is movable. To me, that means it has to be able to stand-up on its own, regardless of where you place it - against a wall or the middle of a room. Section 8.1.1 (

RE: site elevation

Gotcha. Thanks At 11:48 AM 11/9/2009, you wrote: >Point your cursor to the point you want to check and elevation shows up >at the bottom of the screen > >Mike Brown >Project Designer >Sunland Fire Protection >1218 Elon Place >High Point, NC 27263 >Ph. 336.886.7027 Ext. 140 >Fax: 336.886.7024 >WWW

RE: Trophy Show Case

Does a 9'W x 9'D x 21'H pipe organ in a church constitute a room or furniture? (Had that question a few weeks back) At 12:10 PM 11/9/2009, you wrote: >The kicker to that section is how do we define what is and what isn't >furniture. By definition (as Merriam-Webster sees it), furniture is >mo

RE: site elevation

What I do is try to get a static pressure at site, or somewhere close to it. Then knowing the static pressure at the hydrant, the diffence in height can be calculated. Tony -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org

RE: Incompatible products with CPVC

> Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2009 8:00 PM >> To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org >> Subject: Re: Incompatible products with CPVC >> >> The issue seems to be more when used with steel as opposed to on it's >> own. >> >> Sent fr

RE: Trophy Show Case

Sounds like an obstruction to spray. Might be able to get the IBC exception to the spectator playing surface, depending on how acrobatic the organist is. Seriously- I'd call it a room if it is indeed a room full of pipes. -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [

RE: Incompatible products with CPVC

resprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Todd - >> FPDC >> Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2009 8:00 PM >> To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org >> Subject: Re: Incompatible products with CPVC >> >> The issue seems to be more when used with steel as opposed to on it's >

RE: Trophy Show Case

The deck height in that area is around 27 ft, so they should get spray over it. I argued it was a room, but the architect and owner called it furniture. The State FM waived the requirement for sprinklers within the enclosure. At 01:44 PM 11/9/2009, you wrote: >Sounds like an obstruction to spr

RE: Trophy Show Case

I'd double up on the detection if you're omitting AS in the area- if there's the preponderance of wood construction I'm visualizing. glc -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Todd Williams Sent: Mon

RE: Trophy Show Case

My responsibility on this project was sprinklers only. Once they were out of the equation, I have no input/influence/responsibility over what happens. I did suggest multi level detection, but I have no idea what they did. At 02:10 PM 11/9/2009, you wrote: >I'd double up on the detection if you

RE: Incompatible products with CPVC

es and sensitivity to chemicals. As Top said, CPVC is too good a material not to be able to use it safely and reliably. Michael Michael M. Fitz, P.E., C.F.I. MDE Inc. 700 S. Industrial Way Seattle, WA 98108 www.MDE.com 206-321-1804 __ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of vir

RE: QR vs SSP sprinklers in LH vs OH delivery

Do I agree or disagree? It does not matter. The question was asked if you can omit QR sprinklers in an office. The answer, according to 13, is NO. If the EOR wants tighter spacing and more water flowing, that is fine. But they still must be QR according to the little book we are required to follow.

Re: Trophy Show Case

*The 2010 edition says: 8.1.1* * The requirements for spacing, location, and position of sprinklers shall be based on the following principles: - (1) Sprinklers shall be installed throughout the premises. - (2) Sprinklers shall

RE: QR vs SSP sprinklers in LH vs OH delivery

I got an old grocery store (OH GR II), which is being bought and turned into office space with cubicles (LH). So according to this thread, they must replace all the sprinklers at the ceiling with QR sprinklers. Seems like an added expense that's not really needed. I can't seem to put my finger o

RE: QR vs SSP sprinklers in LH vs OH delivery

NFPA 13 02' A.8.3.3.1 When renovations occur in an existing building and no changes are made in the existing sprinkler system, this section is not intended to require the replacement of existing standard sprinklers with quick-response sprinklers. Might work for you. Best regards, Joe Burtell,

RE: QR vs SSP sprinklers in LH vs OH delivery

That's pretty much what I told them. Until this thread came up. David Autry Plans Examiner Nebraska State Fire Marshal's Office 246 S. 14th Street Lincoln, NE 68508 402-471-9659 402-471-3118 fax www.sfm.ne.gov ** Note new email address: david.au...@nebraska.gov -Original Message- Fro

RE: QR vs SSP sprinklers in LH vs OH delivery

The question is compliance with the 1996 #13 change requiring QR heads in light hazard occupancies. Since you have a change in use, I believe that you could require that. Course if the salespeople are selling groceries, wouldn't that still constitute OH 2 mercantile since they're selling the same

RE: QR vs SSP sprinklers in LH vs OH delivery

There ya go, David- common sense and the code coinciding with your initial reaction. I'd call it a day while you're ahead. glc -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of George Church Sent: Monday, Novem

RE: QR vs SSP sprinklers in LH vs OH delivery

"Are ya'll trying to say that if they put in a EH water-spray deluge system, in this building it wouldn't put out a LH fire?" See that's where we went astray. I don't think this conversation was ever about fire control or suppression. It is about code compliance. The two are sometimes confused.

RE: QR vs SSP sprinklers in LH vs OH delivery

The 1996 Sprinkler Handbook Commentary sums it up, emphasis in CAPS; "Quick response sprinklers are considered NECCESARY because of their life safety benefits." "Most of the sprinkler systems installed in light hazard occupancies, such as hospitals, hotels, and apartments are installed for life sa

RE: QR vs SSP sprinklers in LH vs OH delivery

This information brings this thread to a whole new level for me. Thank you John for your input as per usual. We have always used the clarification that Joe brought up to justify NOT changing to QR but I think that this information changes my perspective and I would rather use these facts as a to

Re: QR vs SSP sprinklers in LH vs OH delivery

And that all just punctuates the need for sprinklers in addition to alarms wherein the alarms can warn you it's time to leave but they can't get you out faster. Once again sprinklers buy survival time. Now where do we bury those survivors? On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 4:43 PM, Rod DiBona wrote: > This

QR vs SSP sprinklers in LH vs OH delivery

Perspective: 1. *This conversation was ever about fire control or suppression. It is about code compliance. The two are sometimes confused*. --- yes they are confusing. One seems to effect real world results, the other seems to effect whether we get paid or not. At the end of the day, if Co