"Are ya'll trying to say that if they put in a EH water-spray deluge system, in this building it wouldn't put out a LH fire?"
See that's where we went astray. I don't think this conversation was ever about fire control or suppression. It is about code compliance. The two are sometimes confused. If you do not use QR in an LH you are not in compliance with the Code. Existing exception noted. Now if you (a PE) wants to submit an alternate for a EH deluge...code official...proposed design...complies with the intent...at least equivalent...quality, strength, effectiveness, fire resistance, durability and safety they certainly can. The only area for debate is durability in an EH deluge. Is a deluge as durable over time given the complexity? Want to use SR vs. QR the debate is probably over effectiveness. Is waiting for a SR head as effective as a QR head? Yes, I know it's a matter of seconds in most cases. But the wise NFPA committee was convinced there was a benefit. No matter how long the difference the fire IS bigger if you wait. So EH deluge or SR I think complies with the intent but maybe lacking in the list of specific criteria depending on how YOU look at it and the skill of the PE in convincing an AHJ. Or that is to say the skill of the AHJ in how fine they want to split the hair. FWIW I would not accept SR OH in a LH when I was AHJ. I won't say I had a fancy reason based on anything. But I also never had a crafty PE submit an alternate. And I'm not sure what I'd do with the change of use issue you mention. Don't recall a similar. Base code says new so does that override the NFPA 13 exception? We'll only know after a loss and the lawyers get through with it. Chris Cahill, P.E. Fire Protection Engineer Sentry Fire Protection, Inc. 763-658-4483 763-658-4921 fax Email: [email protected] Mail: P.O. Box 69 Waverly, MN 55390 Location: 4439 Hwy 12 SW Waverly, MN 55390 -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of George Church Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 2:22 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: QR vs SSP sprinklers in LH vs OH delivery There ya go, David- common sense and the code coinciding with your initial reaction. I'd call it a day while you're ahead. glc -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of George Church Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 3:21 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: QR vs SSP sprinklers in LH vs OH delivery The question is compliance with the 1996 #13 change requiring QR heads in light hazard occupancies. Since you have a change in use, I believe that you could require that. Course if the salespeople are selling groceries, wouldn't that still constitute OH 2 mercantile since they're selling the same commodity, albeit with a different delivery method. I don't see the problem with an office being deemed OH and not having it retrofit with QR in a situation like that. There's probably a lot to be said for a 100% increase in density over minimum, largest impact being whether or not the ceiling is 12~15; high or >20' high for response time. If I were an FPE, I'd render an opinion, but I'm not. We've got older buildings Back East; a LOT of unsprinklered existing stock. I'd sure spend more time worrying about unsprinklered buildings instead of this one getting changed to QR IF I were a PE or BCO. Big picture time? glc -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Autry, David Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 3:03 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: QR vs SSP sprinklers in LH vs OH delivery I got an old grocery store (OH GR II), which is being bought and turned into office space with cubicles (LH). So according to this thread, they must replace all the sprinklers at the ceiling with QR sprinklers. Seems like an added expense that's not really needed. I can't seem to put my finger on the thought that the sprinkler system "knows" what hazard is below and what it's protecting. If it's good for OH GP II why would it not be good for OH GR I or LH? Are ya'll trying to say that if they put in a EH water-spray deluge system, in this building it wouldn't put out a LH fire? David Autry Plans Examiner Nebraska State Fire Marshal's Office 246 S. 14th Street Lincoln, NE 68508 402-471-9659 402-471-3118 fax www.sfm.ne.gov ** Note new email address: [email protected] _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
