Re: Occupant load

I wish they shared a border or something. But the states couldn't be more different. Politically and locale. Travis Mack, SET MFP Design, LLC "Follow" us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/pages/MFP-Design-LLC/92218417692 Send large files to MFP Design via:

Re: Occupant load

"I’ve had 2 AHJ’s reject plans because we don’t have occupancy load." Travis, because it is two states in the same month my best guess is there is a 'new' plan reviewer in town assisting AHJ/Code Departments, the states are adjacent, the town is near the border, and the reviewer is

RE: Occupant load

We just got rejected for not including a chart showing construction type, building height, number of floors (it's a simple small 2 story building) occupancy type and occupant load. Rocci Cetani III, CET Senior Designer Water-Based Fire Protections Systems Layout, Nicet Level III

RE: Occupant load

BAHAHAHAHAHAH I would die if I got this in plan check comments J Rocci Cetani III, CET Senior Designer Water-Based Fire Protections Systems Layout, Nicet Level III Northern California Fire Protection Services Inc. 16840 Joleen Way Bldg. A Morgan Hill, CA 93037 P-(408) 776-1580

Self-Storage Units

Looking at some plans for bidding a self-storage building and I see the potential for a lot of problems. Basically the building is (3) stories, concrete tee construction, from bottom of tee stem to top of storage is roughly 12", from inside top of tee to top of storage is approximate 36". Looks

Re: Occupant load

"I guess I missed again" ~Phil Collins~ Occupant Load is the Architect's responsibility. It is used to verify required exit numbers, widths and locations, as well as minimum number of required toilet/drinking fountain fixtures. We going to have to show those 'plumbing counts' too soon?

Re: Occupant load

"Only when I'm really mad though..", signed... Mad Ken from The Sunflower State "There's no place like home" ~Dorothy~ This nonsense would never fly back home here Ken. Brad Kansas, USA Quoting Parsley Consulting : Sort of like this, Travis? When I receive a

RE: Occupant load

Still only half correct. I still wait for the day when the plan is a dot on a map and says sprinkler guy to provide system and all of building. Travis Mack, SET MFP Design, LLC 3356 E Vallejo Ct Gilbert, AZ 85298 480-505-9271 fax: 866-430-6107 email:tm...@mfpdesign.com

RE: Underground Main

Where are you coming up with the 100 psi? Also does the flow need to be increased to 2000 do to there being two hydrants? From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of MFP Design, LLC Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2017 4:04 PM To:

RE: Underground Main

Sorry.crazy day.20 psi.yikes..I need to stop today. Site fire flow is the SITE. You don't increase to two times unless the IFC requires it. From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Welch, Bobby Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2017 1:07 PM To:

NYC Standpipe

In New York City they have the following requirement: 7.6.1 Delete and replace with the following: Class I and Class III standpipes in buildings with floor heights less than 150 feet (45 720 mm) above grade plane shall be at least 4 inches (100 mm) in size. Standpipes in buildings with floor

RE: Underground Main

Good answer... Sent from my Sprint Samsung Galaxy S7. Original message From: "MFP Design, LLC" Date: 10/24/17 4:04 PM (GMT-05:00) To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Subject: RE: Underground Main Site fire flow and sprinkler demand are

RE: Underground Main

Thanks, From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Parsley Consulting Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2017 4:23 PM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org; Welch, Bobby Subject: Re: Underground Main Bobby,

RE: NYC Standpipe

I would think the height would state size so 4" and 6". I do believe NYFD has their own FDV flow requirements, 230 gpm at 80 psi (if I remember right). TD From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Mike Stossel Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2017

RE: Underground Main

Site fire flow and sprinkler demand are independent calcs. If you say it is 1500 gpm then start your calc Q = 1500, P = 100. I would just base it at one hydrant. Pf = L *4.52*Q^1.85 / C^1.85 / d^4.87 Be sure to account for your fittings in the calcs and it is simple. This is about as

Re: Underground Main

Bobby, If you have two hydrants on site I would calculate a minimum 750 gpm flowing at each hydrant, at a minimum pressure of 20 psi through your underground back to the source to see if it can deliver what's needed. Now to be honest, I haven't found anything that identifies that one can

RE: Underground Main

Bobby: As a side note, Civil guys and FP Groups get paid very well to be doing this work of sizing fire lines. Don't do yourself and your company a disservice by giving this type of stuff away. It just cheapens the industry to be giving stuff like this away. They came to you because they

RE: Underground Main

Thanks, From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of MFP Design, LLC Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2017 4:30 PM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Subject: RE: Underground Main Bobby: As a side note, Civil guys and FP Groups get paid

RE: Self-Storage Units

I’ve seen them use wire mesh but this particular project has none. Would you agree that in order to maintain the 18” deflector distance above the “technical storage height” heads would have to be installed in each bay of the concrete tee’s? Brian Harris, CET BVS Systems Inc.

Underground Main

I am working on a underground project were the new private fire main is feeding the building sprinkler system and two hydrants. I am told that the underground has to be calculated. I understand how I calculate the building to prove that the sprinkler system will work but how do I prove that the

Re: Underground Main

Ken...off topic...but were you ever with "Automatic"? Sent from my Sprint Samsung Galaxy S7. Original message From: Parsley Consulting Date: 10/24/17 4:23 PM (GMT-05:00) To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org, "Welch, Bobby"

ESFR Heads / Obstructed Construction

Is NFPA-13 (2013) 8.12.4.1.6 saying regardless of the depth of the beam (obstructed construction) that the heads need to be in each bay? Brian Harris, CET BVS Systems Inc. Design Manager bvssystemsinc.com Phone: 704.896.9989 Fax: 704.896.1935

Re: Underground Main

Bobby, Not sure which area you're working in, however there is an appendix B to the IFC or it's variants which shows how much fire flow is required for a building based on it's square footage and construction type, with the required pressure being 20 psi at the hydrant, at least in the IFC

RE: Underground Main

You need to know the method of determining fire flow in your jurisdiction. Once you know that, determine the fire flow and the number of hydrants req'd to be used to get that flow. Then, just simple hazen Williams formulae. You will have starting flow and pressure. Plug and chug to prove it.

Small Hose Connections

I've got an ESFR warehouse and I'm trying to determine if we should provide small hose connections. The relevant sections are: 8.17.5.1.1 Where required, small hose connections shall be installed. 12.2.1 Small hose connections shall be provided where required by the authority having

Re: NYC Standpipe

Mike, Using the 4” on the lower height areas is correct. I have done this in the past without issue from the FDNY or NYC DOB. Regards, Wayne T. Cordiner, Jr. 917-426-5844 fpdrawi...@gmail.com > On Oct 24, 2017, at 17:09, Kyle.Montgomery wrote: > > I would think

Re: Underground Main

You don’t draw a main down to zero at a fire. While I’ve pumped enough water so that intake gauge on my pump panel is just a couple psig above zero, the pressure at the main is higher. There is friction loss in the barrel of the hydrant, at that hard right angle it take leaving the and in the

RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: Small Hose Connections

Yeah. The reason I got here was because I asked the AHJ if they required them, and he referred me to 8.17.5. I wanted to make sure there wasn’t another code requirement somewhere that dictated when they are required before I followed up with him. Thanks all. Kyle Montgomery

RE: [EXTERNAL] RE: Underground Main

Travis, Good point about doing the work for free. Lately I've been lamenting the fact that we end up doing a lot of this type of free work in the bid phase, only to end up losing the project to a low-ball bidder. I guess that's a risk you have to take sometimes, but if you've already got a

Re: Underground Main

I’d expect that a fire flow calculation has already been done by the fire plan reviewer. The architect and CE should already have a copy of the calculations. These are often done quite early in the project so there may be more than one set, e.g. one set of calculations for a Type V-N and

RE: NYC Standpipe

Great, thank you. Mike Stossel SET [400dpiLogoCropped] 36 Barren Road East Stroudsburg, PA 18302 Office: 973-670-2627 m...@knssprinkler.com From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Wayne Cordiner Sent: Tuesday,

Re: Small Hose Connections

Bruce Verhei may intervene here but I recall him once telling me that they did NOT want small hoses in his jurisdiction (Kent, WA) because they were essentially more of an attractive nuisance. Their reasoning was that untrained civilians might try to fight a fire, endanger themselves and the the

Re: Small Hose Connections

Back in the 231C days, a hose station WITH HOSE was required. WE finally realized it was a waste of money since why would the FD trust their lives to someone else's hose (especially when they bring their own with them). It quickly was changed to the current format of provide JUST CONNECTIONS

RE: [EXTERNAL] RE: Underground Main

Agreed, and I can't really argue with that logic. But if you read the handbook, the commentary states: "...The residual pressure criterion of 20 psi is used because it is the minimum pressure recommended for fire engine use by water authorities in order to minimize the possibility of creating

RE: NYC Standpipe

I would think 4" would be allowable for the shorter standpipes, but I've never worked in NYC so my thoughts probably aren't worth much. You are going to run calcs to prove that 4" would work hydraulically, right? Kyle Montgomery [cid:image001.gif@01CAA0CE.8D8066F0] Aero Automatic Sprinkler Co.

RE: [EXTERNAL] RE: Underground Main

Very interesting. I have always been taught it was 20 psi at the hydrant. If you have 20 psi at the city main, you could in theory have zero at a hydrant if it was uphill or something. From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Kyle.Montgomery

Re: Small Hose Connections

I might be out of date. I no longer speak for them. They’ve even merged enough times that the name has changed. As you go through extinguishers there are natural stop points. I’m empty. My gosh it’s still getting bigger, time to bug out. Hose lines never run out of water. Users aren’t

RE: Small Hose Connections

It's always been my understanding that this situation is always up to the AHJ. Rocci Cetani III, CET Senior Designer Water-Based Fire Protections Systems Layout, Nicet Level III Northern California Fire Protection Services Inc. 16840 Joleen Way Bldg. A Morgan Hill, CA 93037 P-(408)

RE: [EXTERNAL] RE: Underground Main

Kyle: Here is the definition per IFC FIRE-FLOW. The flow rate of a water supply, measured at 20 pounds per square inch (psi) (138 kPa) residual pressure, that is available for fire fighting. Since the fire dept will be taking water direct from the hydrant, I would assume that is where the

Re: Self-Storage Units

In our market here in SE Florida, The AhJ requires the builder to install a "Cage" over the top of the units to limit height of storage.  John W. Farabee On Tuesday, October 24, 2017 1:53 PM, Brian Harris wrote: Looking at some plans for bidding a

RE: Underground Main

I know that the building requires 1,500 gpm because it is a fully sprinklered building and it is only 38,000 square feet. And I know the number of hydrants, there are two and per the table C105.1 they require 2,000 - 2,250 gpm. I just don't understand how this has to be calculated would I have

Re: [EXTERNAL] RE: Underground Main

It's the minimum residual at the hydrant(s) to assure adequate NPSH for FD pumping apparatus. Steve L. Original message From: "Kyle.Montgomery" Date: 10/24/17 11:54 PM (GMT+01:00) To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL]

Re: [EXTERNAL] RE: Underground Main

Like Steve said: Net Positive Spumoni Head Brad Quoting Steve Leyton : It's the minimum residual at the hydrant(s) to assure adequate NPSH for FD pumping apparatus. Steve L. Original message From: "Kyle.Montgomery"