Bob,
The language is such that the standard clarifies the PURPOSE of the
barrier, ie barrier or partition capable of trapping heat in its
requirement to provide such a barrier or partition.
If you go further into this type of requirement in the NFPA standards,
you could also correlate it to the
I'm having a brain cramp this morning so your help would be greatly
appreciated. I haven't done seismic in a while and I can't remember the
criteria to determine the Zone Of Influence, help a brother out..
___
Sprinklerforum mailing
The definition of fire wall, fire partition, fire barrier comes from the
building code. If using the IBC see Chapter 7. Depending on the
occupancies and the level of sprinkler protection you may or may not be
required to provide one of the three. Each one has slightly different
characteristics
Brian,
Refer to 2002 ed NFPA 13, Chapt. A9.3.5.6, (3,a,b).
This should help.
G. Tim Stone
NICET Level III Engineering Technician
Fire Protection Sprinkler Design
and Consulting Services
117 Old Stage Rd. - Essex Jct., VT. 05452
TEL: (802) 434-2968 Fax: (802) 434-4343
Vance,
Thank you. When I spoke to this friend, Jerry, the EFSR example is the very
same one that we both mentioned. Also, all of your talking points are the
same ones that we spoke about. I appreciate the input, and as well the
validation as to what we had spoken about.
Bob Knight
Craig,
I think that you are over analyzing this situation. There is no mention in
13 for this to be a fire rated anything. This barrier / partition is
merely for heat containment for the purpose of sprinkler activation or lack
thereof, not the spread of fire.
Thank you,
Bob Knight
What's the latest poop on protecting large single-family residences?
It doesn't seem that 13D would be appropriate for the structure, but
I don't see anything in any of my Codes that would modify it.
Todd G. Williams, PE
Fire Protection Design/Consulting
Stonington, Connecticut
860-535-2080
Bob,
It comes down to the way the AHJ is interpreting this section of NFPA 13
and what was type of wall actually constructed versus what may have been
or is required. If the wall is 8 block floor to ceiling but there are
two openings in it that are unprotected then the wall does not provide
for
I had this question when designing a 32,000 sq.ft. home. The mech.
consultant specified 13D. I recommended 13 or at least 13R. They settled for
13R. But by this time a 2 underground was already installed. They wouldn't
give me the 4 underground I needed for designing to 13R. Finally it was
Todd,
New Jersey addresses this issue.
The NJ Uniform Construction Code, N.J.A.C. 5:23, specifically N.J.A.C.
5:23-3.21(c)3.i. limits R-5 (One and Two Family Dwellings or Single
Family Townhouses not more than three stories in height) Buildings of
Type VB unprotected wood frame construction to
Why do you need a 4 UG for 13R? We do them on 2 and 2-1/2 UG's all
the time, including combined services with a domestic allowance taken
for fixture count at the common supply point. Is this to be a
dedicated 2 fire service or a combined line?
Steve Leyton
Protection Design Consulting
I have done a fairly large number of these jumbo homes and the real issue
for any of them is quality of water supply. (As if that is not true in any
sprinkler design).
The problems with Jumbo homes are varied but all work against the sprinkler
designers and installers.
First, our experience has
Call me naive, but what exactly are the concerns over using 13D for a larger
house? A fire in a single room should still be contained/confined by the 13D
system. Does an NFPA 13 system readily translate to a dwelling unit? Would
you also adjust the required water supply for the NFPA 13 system?
I
We struggled with this issue and the exact definition of attic. We use the
following:
If it has full headroom and walk-up stairs - it is not an attic. This has
worked very well.
Jim Kettler
And last but not least or us...the design team will say The
attic will not
be used and doesn't need
Jim:
What if that single room is 4,000 s.f. with ceilings that peak at 30'
and have pockets, beams, suspended obstructions, catwalks, lofts, etc.,
etc., etc.? I agree that some measure of additional protection is
appropriate for these mega-homes, as both the fire load and volume of
space in
I guess that was the point I was trying to make. Is the problem the size of
the home or the very specific hazard we are trying to protect? We haven't
done any homes that large, but we've done 15k s.f. houses with attached
greenhouses, indoor swimming pools, and one with indoor basketball court
Interesting they were doing the Hayes residence.
At 04:09 PM 8/20/2007, you wrote:
Yeah just when you thought you've been dealt the ultimate challenge,
there's always something new.
http://www.designforward.net/hayes.shtm
And they are not limited to residential either. Check out some of the
The other day, I ran across an FMG Inspector at a Big Box Store.
He was testing fire pumps. To measure flow, he used 2 Pollard Hydrant
Diffusers with built in Pitot Gauges and screwed them onto the Pump test
header.
He then walks back and forth as he opens the valve, checks readings, etc.
I have tested many fire pumps all by my lonesome before, I prefer a helper
but in a pinch have done it alone. He should have been modulating with the
OSY or BV and not with those straight gates, they do walk and are not
supposed to be used for anything but full open or full closed, imho. So
he's
OK, Tom. You've been pushing these pitotless nozzles. It looks like a
great toy, but what justifies the $495 dollar cost? (I know, this
should be on Sprinkler Chat, but it is a segue from a technical Q, so
I figured it was OK.)
At 06:07 PM 8/20/2007, you wrote:
I have tested many fire
Nothing to break, no pitots to buy again.
Much more efficient too.
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Todd
Williams - work
Sent: Monday, August 20, 2007 6:31 PM
To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org
Subject: pitotless
OK, Tom. You've been
I've never missed a chance to avoid staying as dry as possible during pump
tests, so we use the monsters with built-in pitots and occasionally use the
remote reader extensions. But we didn't hesitate to buy 3 more once 2500's
approached routine. After 7 or 8 years I think we've replaced 2 or 3
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