Bob, It comes down to the way the AHJ is interpreting this section of NFPA 13 and what was type of wall actually constructed versus what may have been or is required. If the wall is 8" block floor to ceiling but there are two openings in it that are unprotected then the wall does not provide for occupancy separation per the building code and is treated as if it doesn't exist. It sounds like the issue your friend is dealing with is more of an architectural issue dealing with dissimilar occupancies.
The "separation" is very much about the spread of fire from one area to the next. It is complementary to the sprinkler systems and very integral in large buildings or buildings with adjacent dissimilar occupancies. While the draft curtain analogy is similar, it's primary function is to limit the unnecessary activation of sprinklers while the fire partition/separation/barrier is more of a distinct, complete, physical separation between to spaces. Two totally different functions from a building code standpoint. But I would be curious why the AHJ does not believe this wall is a sufficient separation. Again, what does the code call for between the two areas? If they did not meet that requirement then NFPA 13 says to extend the higher density 15ft into the less demanding adjacent occupancy, end of story. Like I said, limitation of sprinkler activation is not the main purpose for fire barriers. It's to prevent the spread of fire from one area to another. Craig L. Prahl, CET Fire Protection Group Mechanical Department CH2MHILL Lockwood Greene 1500 International Drive PO Box 491, Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491 Direct - 864.599.4102 Fax - 864.599.8439 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.lg.com -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bob Knight Sent: Monday, August 20, 2007 12:01 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Barrier / Partition Definition Craig, I think that you are over analyzing this situation. There is no mention in 13 for this to be a "fire" rated anything. This barrier / partition is merely for heat containment for the purpose of sprinkler activation or lack thereof, not the spread of fire. Thank you, Bob Knight -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, August 20, 2007 7:20 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Barrier / Partition Definition The definition of fire wall, fire partition, fire barrier comes from the building code. If using the IBC see Chapter 7. Depending on the occupancies and the level of sprinkler protection you may or may not be required to provide one of the three. Each one has slightly different characteristics as defined. The Fire Wall being the most stringent where the assembly extends from the slab to or even through the roof and is capable of maintaining its structural integrity even if the building on either or both sides would collapse. A fire partition is a physical separation designed with fire resistant materials whose purpose is to prevent the spread of fire from one area to the next. A fire partition is not "rated". The fire barrier is a rated assembly but not to the extent of the Fire Wall. All have protected openings as well. The wall, barrier and partition are designed to protect one occupancy from fire spread from an adjacent occupancy. They have a different purpose than a draft curtain. As far as the scenario described, if the openings are not protected with either fire doors or shutters or an accepted (by the AHJ) water spray curtain, then by definition it does not qualify as a Code defined separation. It would provide no real separation and his assessment of requiring the extension of the higher density into the lesser density protected area would be correct. So the question is, do the openings have any kind of automatic closures, is the wall rated, is the wall required to be rated or just one of the lesser assemblies? Still a few outstanding questions needing to be answered in order to make a definitive determination. Craig L. Prahl, CET Fire Protection Group Mechanical Department CH2MHILL Lockwood Greene 1500 International Drive PO Box 491, Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491 Direct - 864.599.4102 Fax - 864.599.8439 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.lg.com -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bob Knight Sent: Friday, August 17, 2007 5:22 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Barrier / Partition Definition Does anyone have a good definition for what 11.1.2 means by "Barrier" or "Partition" (NFPA 13 2002 ed). I have a friend who has an AHJ telling him that an 8" concrete full height wall with two door openings in it does not qualify. My understanding of this is that this is a perfectly acceptable barrier since the purpose of the barrier is to prevent fusing of the sprinklers from one area to another. The reason the question arises is that this AHJ wants to extend a new .55 / 2500 sf area through the concrete wall and into an existing .2 / 1500 sf system. Without being too obvious, the original system has no possibility of providing this density, let alone the proper spacing of sprinklers. Anyway, any help will be appreciated. Thank you, Bob Knight, CET (208) 495-2057 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.firebyknight.com No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.12.0/957 - Release Date: 8/16/2007 1:46 PM _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. 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