its happened and cost folks millions of dollars.
George Church'
Rowe Sprinkler
g...@rowesprinkler.com
570-837-7647
-Original Message-
From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org
[mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Ron Greenman
Sent: Wednesday, December 08
worthless.
George Church'
Rowe Sprinkler
g...@rowesprinkler.com
570-837-7647
-Original Message-
From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org
[mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Brian Harris
Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 5:07 PM
To: sprinklerforum
Quickly.
George Church'
Rowe Sprinkler
g...@rowesprinkler.com
570-837-7647
-Original Message-
From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org
[mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Mark.Phelps
Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2010 8:42 AM
To: 'sprinklerforum
don't know why you couldn't start it from a WFS (or dry system PS). I can only
imagine the pressure drop method is more reliable? Anyone on #20 or FGOL Tom?
George Church'
Rowe Sprinkler
g...@rowesprinkler.com
570-837-7647
-Original Message-
From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org
city still coming outa the head.
George Church'
Rowe Sprinkler
g...@rowesprinkler.com
570-837-7647
-Original Message-
From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org
[mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of
craig.pr...@ch2m.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2010 9:09 AM
. Maybe we should in stall 8 quick-opening
drains t undo that, and move the hangers back after a trip :)
George Church'
Rowe Sprinkler
g...@rowesprinkler.com
570-837-7647
-Original Message-
From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org
[mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org
for the air that
once was simply trapped air, as it dissolves into the sprinkler water maybe?
George Church'
Rowe Sprinkler
g...@rowesprinkler.com
570-837-7647
-Original Message-
From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org
[mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf
was that this was acceptable. Virtually
any large complex that needs a pump-or if redundancy is sought, pumps- feeding
a power plant, a manufacturing complex, has more buildings than pumps.
Should present no problems and be in compliance with the two applicable
standards, 13 and 20.
George Church'
Rowe Sprinkler
g
So, did you take her advice?
George Church'
Rowe Sprinkler
g...@rowesprinkler.com
570-837-7647
-Original Message-
From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org
[mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Brad Casterline
Sent: Thursday, December 02, 2010 1:11 PM
But Frank, those are the lessons learned that we NEVER forget!
George Church'
Rowe Sprinkler
g...@rowesprinkler.com
570-837-7647
-Original Message-
From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org
[mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Frank Herrick
Sent: Friday
I don't have time to tear it apart but here's some approximation:
$65m spkr market in PA with IRC mandate
We're a big state, so 40x this is nat'l market, divided by 3,000 home fire
deaths a year
= $866,666/life saved, once we work up to all homes sprinklered as stock
rotates (we're a generation
There are ASRS buildings taller than that with ceiling sprinklers- and yes,
a zillion IRASs. And storage is certainly getting closer to routinely
exceeding 50, 55' as soon as the next generation of ESFRs come out. We'll
see em go as high as the new FM lab ceiling.
Gotta go- new server being
You're missing the code citation he can't furnish. If it works
hydraulically, it works.
I recall a raised eyebrow on a 4 riser feeding a 6 crossmain; very simply,
I used the excess pressure where it saved my boss the most money, in the
riser devices. But nothing in 13 says you need to go from big
We've got a project where we need 8 UG for the calcs, and the main in the
street is 6. 6x6 tap, increase to 8, we're on our way. The water purveyor
is not going to replace a block or two of existing UG.
And look at 13D systems- certainly not unusual to have a 3/4 UG supply
increased to 1 for the
Considering all sprinklers are tested at 500 PSI, I doubt that they raise
that to 700 and market those that stay together as high pressure. Dave,
assuming the dry system supply- fire pump?- is 215, you could run a water
delivery calc with a head operating and see if the pressure in the system
Keep It Simple, Stupid.
(its an expression, I'm not directing that at anyone!)
-Original Message-
From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org
[mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of
jhoff...@kcp.com
Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2010 4:57 PM
To:
Correct. And if the total # of heads in a dwelling unit is 4, you can QR.
Finally, someone treating a fraternity commiserate with the exposure?
Or would concealed heads be enough protection from mechanical injury so you
could use the residential heads you should use?
Threat of someone hanging
-
From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org
[mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of George Church
Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2010 8:57 AM
To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org
Subject: RE: QR sprinklers in R2 occupancy
Correct. And if the total # of heads in a dwelling unit
Steve, I'd note that there are many water purveyors requiring a split
outside the home and a separate valve on the domestic so they'll shut off
domestic service, not sprinkler, for non-payment. Inadvertently screwing the
plumbers trying to do a multi-purpose, I can hardly sleep at night for the
If you want to see a dramatic illustration of pipe expansion, look at CPVC
in a hotel hallway after they run a salamander for a couple days. Witnessed
this on one of our jobs 2 years ago, couple feet of zig-zag side to side.
I'll worry about long-term effects if the Owner pays us the last $27,440
the 4/12 ceilings.
Thanks for the information.
-Original Message-
From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org
[mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of George Church
Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2010 8:57 AM
To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org
Subject: RE: QR
We've done office buildings in CPVC where they had a tenant and were
dropping ceilings, and steel in balance of shell.
Tell em to have a fire watch and leave it for 24 hours; if they want
shorter, have em assume the liability of the flood that may follow.
-Original Message-
From:
will be on the test? I don't get why some of these
codes are 2,3, and greater revisions behind the current one
Brian Harris
FDFP Inc.
-Original Message-
From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org
[mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of George
Church
Sent: Wednesday
You should be fine. For an FBI secure room we had a pair of pces of 2.5
CPVC for a 4 main cause that's what we had, and I wasn't buying 15' of 3
for 6'.
-Original Message-
From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org
[mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Travis
And it may be they need non-metallic the length of the wall thickness
-Original Message-
From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org
[mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Brad
Casterline
Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 1:38 PM
To:
, in my case they did, but if they just specified coupling on Travis'
job, maybe they know the break will avoid the entire system being one
huge antenna. Hopefully the wall is not metal stud!
-Original Message-
From: George Church [mailto:for...@ptd.net]
Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 12
I believe Mr Caputo is under contract with NFPA to respond to requests for
interpretation, and that agreement precedes Mr Lake's departure to NFSA. As
a TC member he can give his opinion, but unless the TC considered it, it is
not official.
I've used TC member informal opinions often and rarely
Its not as easy as it sounds to change a 30-year old certification program
as you might think.
While its a PIA to drag around all the reference materials, you must also
appreciate the numerous concerns and integrity requirements and restrictions
faced by any testing agency. They need to prevent
, SC 29304-0491
Direct - 864.599.4102
Fax - 864.599.8439
CH2MHILL Extension 74102
craig.pr...@ch2m.com
-Original Message-
From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org
[mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of George Church
Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 9:22 AM
Hole, not whole. You spell like an engineer- could be construed as a
compliment:)
See, Craig- spellcheck wouldn't be allowed in a pselling test, but I use it
often :)
Brad, Resign yourself that there will always be someone better- gives you a
motivation you don't get from being number one. Ask
,
and greater revisions behind the current one
Brian Harris
FDFP Inc.
-Original Message-
From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org
[mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of George
Church
Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 9:22 AM
To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org
: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org
[mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of George Church
Sent: Monday, November 01, 2010 5:17 PM
To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org
Subject: RE: Older Versions of NFPA
NFPA is working on bringing archive versions of their codes online
Explain that 2007 is nothing but a big TIA for 2002, maybe that will switch
on the light bulb.
Ken from the other guys explained it that way and it seemed to have
clarity- until the explanation fell on CMS's ears ni Blatimore and they
explained the DOH doesn't (in fact, can't) enforce a TIA to
But does it work?
-Original Message-
From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org
[mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Roland
Huggins
Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2010 11:34 AM
To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org
Subject: Re: Residential Room Design Method?
No, it doesn't if the 150% is not available from the supply.
-Original Message-
From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org
[mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Thom
Sent: Friday, October 29, 2010 6:30 PM
To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org
Subject: RE:
yes
-Original Message-
From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org
[mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of A.P.Silva
Sent: Friday, October 29, 2010 6:43 PM
To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org
Subject: RE: Oversized Fire Pump
In a previous post I quoted NFPA
NFPA is working on bringing archive versions of their codes online. In the
meantime, you'll generally find the newest edition as well as one back, the
one back edition intended to be the applicable one under the last I-Codes.
The above is what I've heard and how I understood it when it was
http://pahomepage.com/fulltext?nxd_id=159316
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For Technical Assistance, send an email to: supp...@firesprinkler.org
To
Are you sure there is no insulation between the Z purlins to make them
unobstructed construction? I'm skimming this email, but I don't recall
seeing any without it unless its outside storage with a roof over it. And
the idea of thinking you've got sprinklers in the pocket of 9.5 deep Z
purlins
If it has insulation draped from top to top of the Z purlins, you can
measure from the underside of the NOMINAL DEPTH OF INSULATION and ignore
where it goes back up to the top of the Z. Likely there's 8 or 10'
insulation and treated like a smooth ceiling from which to measure from
below its
I think a TC member summed it up once-
I do it because the market in which I compete dictates I must do it. I know
I shouldn't.
Doesn't improve installations by us hoping we can use new but never getting
a job competing against those that re-use.
Or words to that effect, was a couple years ago
I, too salute that. Our new estimator asked us to run some dwgs up to him
while he awaited test results at the hospital for what turned out to be
gallstones. We did. It seems there are a lot of us in this business that are
sickeningly dedicated.
-Original Message-
From:
Believe me, I think outside the box more often than my design staff is
comfortable with.
A year ago we had a project that could only be done within the code by using
a PLD diesel.
PLDs for Tier 3 engines weren't approved yet.
BUT- they were in final testing.
So we ordered a Tier 3 variable speed
Like our friend's brilliant son's formula for solving calcs without trial
and error.
Asked why we use trial and error instead of just solving it, and worked on
the formula until he got it right.
A rocket scientist in our business couldn't find fault with it.
A lot of midnight oil but Cecil will
I am still having with my own scenario is- would an
auto air release at the top of the rise out of the tank work? I KNOW a
vacuum pump there would work.
-Original Message-
From: George Church [mailto:for...@ptd.net]
Sent: Friday, October 08, 2010 3:03 PM
To: sprinklerforum
meet code, Have a happy day in court!
-Original Message-
From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org
[mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Charles
Thurston
Sent: Monday, October 11, 2010 8:37 AM
To: George Church
Subject: Re: Type of pump for UG storage tanks
Yes, it will take a vertical turbine pump. See manufacturer's cut sheets
(Xerxes, CSI, Floway), brochures, and NFPA 20 for examples.
Hmm. It IS vertical turbine pumps we're talking about.
glc
-Original Message-
From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org
I like the Dunkin Donut Holes..seriously, just drill a hole in the
clapper, nothing more complex tan that.
Assuming you don't have a BFP stopping the expansion in the system???
Otherwise you'd need an expansion tank, not a hole.
glc
-Original Message-
From:
_
From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org
[mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of George Church
Sent: Monday, October 11, 2010 3:09 PM
To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org
Subject: RE: Check valve for antifreeze system
I like the Dunkin Donut Holes
mailto:bobby.gill...@keyfireprotection.com
bobby.gill...@keyfireprotection.com
_
From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org
[mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of George Church
Sent: Monday, October 11, 2010 3:20 PM
To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org
Subject
???
Unless the tank ws installed upside down, you'd don't have positive suction
head above the waterline. I don't have an equation to support it, but its
easy to field test.
Ralphy- go to CSI's website and look at typical drawings of the vertical
turbine pumps, either into a belly if there is
[mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Brad
Sent: Friday, October 08, 2010 3:03 PM
To: 'George Church'; sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org
Subject: RE: Type of pump for UG storage tanks
Definitely talk to a pump rep, but say the suction flange is 8' above
tank water level
So you've got more demanding (pressure-wise) stuff elsewhere and you've got
100% overdischarge. Or a Garbage In, Garbage Out. Check to see if this is
the most demanding head- quick stink test for GIGO.
-Original Message-
From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org
Brian Harris
FDFP Inc.
-Original Message-
From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org
[mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of George Church
Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2010 3:28 PM
Suppression vrs control
-Original Message-
From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org
[mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Brian Harris
Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2010 5:00 PM
To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org
Subject: ESFR Hose Allowance
Any thoughts
I'd say the letter is the first step- to the pastor or building committee
chair, someone OTHER THAN the supt refusing the work.
Note that they'll be ripping open the work to install sprinklers inside it
if relevant to the construction type and materials.
Note it is a code requirement and required
The UCC is the PA Uniform Construction Code, the ICC as adopted by PA.
-Original Message-
From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org
[mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Thom
Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2010 2:18 PM
To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org
geek.
I'd also like to thank the numerous presenters who took the time to prepare
great seminars, I learned a lot and I know there is a lot of prep time
necessary to do it right- and they did.
Look forward to seeing all next year in Texas!
George Church
President
Rowe Sprinkler Systems, Inc
Have run into the same thing when we run the compressed air lines for
modular home plants-
You'll have service calls (which might be a good thing in 2013) if you use
the standard gaskets.
What Mike said, echoed by a contractor that looked into it. I don't recall
the other gaskets being a large
I believe I could root around and POINT TO WHERE OTHERS WROTE 70% open, and I
believe it was those rocket scientists at FM Global. The caps are for emphasis
that I didn't make a judgment call, I know where to find something defensible.
PLEASE realize that this was a compliment to FM, no sarcasm
Forget combined pump curve you need elementary conceptual aha! experience.
Try this:
Look, Skippy, we got 50 PSI coming into the building. Then it goes into the
pump which boosts it 100 PSI and at the discharge of the pump we have 150
PSI. Same thing as happens in a fire truck when you hook up ot
I'd tell him he needs to hire an EOR with qualifications (or lotsa EO) and
ask him, it is not defined in NFPA 13 and needs to be addressed by a
registered design professional; and obviously as an architect, it is outside
his area of expertise. And yours.
-Original Message-
From:
Just the 70% open on pipe racks or similar obstructions that I'm pulling out
of my memory, so don't commit it to writing. And its not in 13, except the
(valid) parallel to open grid ceilings.
-Original Message-
From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org
They are separate, the domestic comes off a well.
Don't make this overly complex, you're simply inserting a BFP into the
supply of a pipe schedule system. Do you have the necessary flow and
pressure under applicable #13?
-Original Message-
From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org
I believe you're back to determining the weight 5 of plastic vrs a Class I
commodity. May not be sufficient weight of group a to be significant enough
to support extended burn time.
-Original Message-
From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org
-
From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org
[mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of George Church
Sent: Friday, September 24, 2010 6:59 AM
To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org
Subject: RE: Manufacturing with shipping storage
I believe you're back to determining the weight 5
Not something I'm proud of, but did this twice.
Routine painting - think they empty the hotel or have a fire watch?
Have a minimum of two full-sized suction grates at least 6' apart so no one
can block both entry points. Oversize since you're not likely to be able to
have a vortex plate in the
Isn't calcium chloride what I put in my lantern as a kid, produces acetylene
gas when it mixes with water?
While as a solution it might not be a problem until someone adds some to
refresh the mix- and blows the place up.
Out of the frypan and onto the cooking surface.
-Original Message-
I was corrected in-house
Calcium carbide is what I was remembering incorrectly.
-Original Message-
From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org
[mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of George Church
Sent: Friday, September 24, 2010 3:43 PM
To: sprinklerforum
Except anticipated temp is the driving force, and pressure varies with # hds
operating, supply pres fluctuations, etc
Hey, Mack, Don't pump into that FDC- there's AF in there!
-Original Message-
From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org
The Academy is running a webinar on this topic with some of the best minds,
from the Best Practices group.
Rather timely for this thread.
http://www.fsi-bp.org/HomeOpen.aspx?id=1260 takes you to a Best Practices
article on AF; much more during the webinar.
glc
Webinar: Designing Around
What jeff said. And...
What exactly are u protecting, and what might be planned for storage?
In control mode, you'll need to know what is stored, how it is packaged,
storage array, height, etc.
You may be looking at a boatload of IRAS.
-Original Message-
From:
box, cures switching to control mode might be an
expensive cure.
What are the issues?
-Original Message-
From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org
[mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of George Church
Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 4:25 PM
..
Brian Harris
FDFP Inc.
-Original Message-
From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org
[mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of George Church
Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 4:28 PM
To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org
Subject: RE: Control Mode vs. ESFR
I heard from a committee member that the doors were shaking in their frames
when the AF solutions at high % went boom. VERY SCARY to an experienced FPE.
I saw some pics, maybe it was a video, nonetheless, it was something we
should NOT be doing. However, like others, I see no problem with the
We've likewise used AF to be able to install CPVC in existing attics where
steel would be a nightmare, or other things like avoiding 30% increase in
MRA off a limited water supply.
I'm not a registered design professional, but ones I've talked to about this
seem to agree the premix is fine.
There's some commentary, I think by Roland recently, that the TIA's needed
to get out- we've got sprinkler systems causing explosions and killing
people- and the testing results were almost ready but TC members didn't have
the chance to fully understand what was coming. I cannot fault the
There are those mission-critical folks, and those risk-averters, that SHOULD
spend more than minimum consensus standards required.
I'm sure there are a lot of folks that are glad the Pentagon may have had a
heavier-than-usual spec.
And an airport needs to realize- as do many other targets
That
Seriously, how many of us were staying up at night this weekend, worrying
about the .97 vrs .98?
Your nozzle must be fundamentally different :)
-Original Message-
From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org
[mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Brad
Sent:
As opposed to 'wow, there goes prolific brad'?
Just out of curiosity, is there supposed to be a comma between amazing and
brad?
Or is there none there intentionally.
-Original Message-
From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org
[mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On
What needs to be looked at is the curve of the pump you are using, not a
guess at the range of values not supported by anything.
-Original Message-
From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org
[mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Vince Sabolik
Sent: Saturday,
First, its far better once you're out of the estimating phase, to input the
actual pump curve from the mfr's performance graph. It doesn't need to tbe
the certified pump curve for your exact pump, the model is fine. But that
will tell you the reality you're dealing with. You'll find, for example,
Detection and water cannon(s) ?
I've seen some spots, a high gallery at the King of Prussia mall during a
renovation comes to mind, where it would have been a godsend to have been
able to do that instead of getting over fountains in an articulating boom.
Course then you think about the AP news
be singled out if they step within 100 yards of
the convention.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless Phone
- Reply message -
From: George Church for...@ptd.net
Date: Thu, Sep 16, 2010 1:24 pm
Subject: AFSA
To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org
And let me stick in one last plug for attending
Got this series of questions and comments from a Fire Marshal in a
neighboring county. Any ideas?
Q. I am looking for some low flow rate residential sprinkler heads. I can
find 13 GPM heads but, would like to find one with a lower rate of
discharge.
Q. Ordinary or Intermediate Temperature?
Sounds like the AHJ may be overstepping his boundries. Additions to Pipe
schedule systems are allowed without calcs in #13.
-Original Message-
From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org
[mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of steve
Sent: Thursday, September 16,
Dan, what's another name for an FS bracket?
-Original Message-
From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org
[mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Dan Arbel
Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2010 11:53 AM
To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org
Subject: RE: Pump Rooms
And let me stick in one last plug for attending the AFSA Convention, and
remind all on here that the Association needs a membership check or a
donation if you can't afford to pay in full for the services you use.
If you don't pay your own way, the rest of us carry you.
PARASITE would be the
[mailto:sprinklerforum- boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of
George Church
Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2010 10:15 AM
To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org; tm...@mfpdesign.com
Subject: RE: Residential Dry Systems
I haven't seen the flyer but I believe its in the neighborhood of 15
PSI
for commercial
Since this only affects the 2010 versions what is everyone else doing in
municipalities that only recognize 2007 or earlier?
Ignore it?
-Original Message-
From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org
[mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of George Church
Sent
I don't know if #20 has changed, but a header wasn't required, only a means
of testing the fire pump. So you could test from standpipe hose valves or a
roof manifold, hydrants off the boosted UG loop, or other means on the
3-year basis. Or toss in a valved outlet and every 3 years hook up a pipe
I haven't seen the flyer but I believe its in the neighborhood of 15 PSI.
The concern is the same as in steel pipe systems- huge amount of potential
energy with the possibility of rupturing piping in the case of CPVC. The
inevitable air pockets in a CPVC system undergoing acceptance testing at 200
Naturally any of these are simply a starting point for either the discussion
with the AHJ or the support for the qualification you'd put in your
proposal.
Approved means accepted by the (local?) AHJ.
Or we can do what many of us have done for years- it's an empty building, OH
1 should cover it.
It's not that they don't understand that you're putting in food grade
additives.
It's a realization, likely true, that some moron may toss Prestone in there
at some future date.
And as many times as we've seen empty jugs of Prestone in attics, its tough
to argue with them (the water purveyor)
Tell em you can't move without significant added cost (i.e., COR) and just
shift them to center between your lines. End of problem.
glc
-Original Message-
From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org
[mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Dewayne
Martinez
Sent:
NFPA 13 and 20 certainly DO allow performance-based designs under 1.5
Equivalency.
So long as a test indicates a certain level of performance, and the AHJ
approves the use of those results and the contractor is prudent enough to
allow degradation of pump and water supply to the satisfaction of
It's not as easy to retrofit one on a Tier III as it first seemed..
-Original Message-
From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org
[mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Fletcher, Ron
Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 12:12 PM
To:
So where's the answer to the question inquiring minds need to know-
WERE THERE SPRKRS?
-Original Message-
From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org
[mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of John Drucker
Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 12:32 PM
To:
...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of George Church
Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 9:24 AM
To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org
Subject: RE: Diesel Pump Engine RPM
It's not as easy to retrofit one on a Tier III as it first seemed..
-Original Message-
From: sprinklerforum-boun
Brian-
There are more of these than you can shake a stick at.
I remember after realizing $25,000 into the wrong program, discussing it
with a GC customer who told me they had a similar mistake- except at a zero
at the end.
Depends what you need it to do, what cost acctg you'e expecting it to
401 - 500 of 1600 matches
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