FWIW this was born out of the fire code as a hedge against exposure fires
from grilling, primarily, probably patio heaters and what not as well now.
It then migrated into 13R due to the near universal pairing of IBC/IFC
with 13R. IFC/IFC commentary unfortunately doesn't give a ton of wiggle
I suppose it's just since we apply the codes and standards as adopted so most
AHJs don't know and don't care if we can model something or draw other
conclusions than what they're reading in black and white, day in and day out.
George L. Church, Jr., CET
Rowe Sprinkler Systems, Inc.
PO Box
: Friday, October 12, 2012 9:34 AM
To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org
Subject: Re: 13R balcony protection
The 2009 edition of the IBC added the balcony must have a roof or deck above
regarding required sprinkler protection. Nothing regarding whether the
overhang on the top floor is a driver
@firesprinkler.org
Subject: RE: 13R balcony protection
Agree George-- I do not see how it could be otherwise. Expert witnesses for the
prosecution and the defense both can prove whatever they want to using
modeling :(. I use it to get a second opinion of what my gut is telling me, and
for something
...@firesprinkler.org
[mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Brad Casterline
Sent: Monday, October 15, 2012 9:07 AM
To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org
Subject: RE: 13R balcony protection
Agree George-- I do not see how it could be otherwise. Expert witnesses for the
prosecution
Sad news George. You know the Forum is here for you. I enjoy when you
philosophize and reminisce, too.
-Original Message-
From: George Church [mailto:g...@rowesprinkler.com]
Sent: Monday, October 15, 2012 9:12 AM
To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org
Subject: RE: 13R balcony protection
]
Sent: Monday, October 15, 2012 9:16 AM
To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org
Subject: RE: 13R balcony protection
smoke control systems can be tested 'full scale' and not be destructive
doing so. How do you do that? If you are not testing with hot or at least
a very buoyant 'smoke' plume you
100 Best Companies to Work For
*Registered in: MN
-Original Message-
From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org
[mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Roland Huggins
Sent: Friday, October 12, 2012 9:34 AM
To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org
Subject: Re: 13R
Sent: Monday, October 15, 2012 9:59 AM
To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org
Subject: RE: 13R balcony protection
I knew I was asking for trouble, even with the semi-quotes 'full scale'. The
key is more satisfying. If I say 20 heads at .2/X sq ft will control a Y size
fire..., just flowing 20 heads
are installed and checked with the temporary wiring,
then the permanent wiring people get 1 or 2 backward.
From: Cahill, Christopher [mailto:ccah...@burnsmcd.com]
Sent: Monday, October 15, 2012 10:24 AM
To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org
Subject: RE: 13R balcony protection
I wasn't challenging your
10-12 years back, apt complex called the Rosecliff 1/2 mile south down
Willard Street from NFPA. BBQ on 2nd level (called a Balcony in the news),
up the exterior and into the unsprinklered attic (13R). Nobody died
thankfully.
I've had Owners argue that the plan says 'deck', so why do I need to
sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org
Sent: Mon Oct 15 18:28:04 2012
Subject: RE: 13R balcony protection
10-12 years back, apt complex called the Rosecliff 1/2 mile south down
Willard Street from NFPA. BBQ on 2nd level (called a Balcony in the news),
up the exterior and into the unsprinklered attic (13R
...@comcast.net
To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org
Sent: Mon, Oct 15, 2012 22:28:04 GMT+00:00
Subject: RE: 13R balcony protection
10-12 years back, apt complex called the Rosecliff 1/2 mile south down
Willard Street from NFPA. BBQ on 2nd level (called a Balcony in the news),
up the exterior
@firesprinkler.org
Subject: RE: 13R balcony protection
Sad news George. You know the Forum is here for you. I enjoy when you
philosophize and reminisce, too.
-Original Message-
From: George Church [mailto:g...@rowesprinkler.com]
Sent: Monday, October 15, 2012 9:12 AM
and sprinklers isolated so adjacent stacks can be occupied.
Bv
Sent from my Motorola ATRIX™ 4G on ATT
-Original message-
From: Tom Duross tduro...@comcast.net
To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org
Sent: Mon, Oct 15, 2012 22:28:04 GMT+00:00
Subject: RE: 13R balcony protection
,
first electrical and sprinklers isolated so adjacent stacks can be occupied.
Bv
Sent from my Motorola ATRIX™ 4G on ATT
-Original message-
From: Tom Duross tduro...@comcast.net
To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org
Sent: Mon, Oct 15, 2012 22:28:04 GMT+00:00
Subject: RE: 13R
STINKY gets my vote Ron, as most descriptive for some of the numbers I
have posted (the ones that come from the other end of my mouth). All I
can say is excuse me. Today I will model a sidewall sticking out over
a balcony, with and without overhangs and attic eaves, using different
size
The 2009 edition of the IBC added the balcony must have a roof or deck
above regarding required sprinkler protection. Nothing regarding
whether the overhang on the top floor is a driver. Additionally, the
2013 edition of NFOA 13R finally acknowledge the supremacy of the code
over
Why is always have such heartburn with this Code versus Standard stuff is
the misapplication of the idea. At the top the thought process the whole
thing is the code when adopted, including the code, including any
specific requirements that may not be in the standard, the standard
itself, and any
I would prefer fearsome (even though a stretch) since fearless can
also result from a lack of better judgement.
Hope to see a bunch of you at our convention.
Roland
On Oct 12, 2012, at 2:42 PM, Ron Greenman wrote:
This is the same guy that
said Roland didn't understand the intent of the
words vs numbers, 'true' only at the middle of the aisle
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The book says to protect patios and decks and from what I've come across
the problem arises from BBQs catching something on fire, that heat running
up the wall, and then getting into the floor structure that is cantilevered
out and becomes the deck above. The top floor becomes the weirdness since
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