RE: High School Weight Room - epistemology of fire hazard classification

[David Blackwell]

The likelihood and cost/benefit analysis is a debate that should be happening 
at the building code development and adoption phases when determining what the 
minimum code requirements should be in the building codes and standards.

You may want to consider that public buildings that are funded by taxpayers are 
a community investment of resources which should be protected against fire and 
other hazards to be more resilient and durable to make the most of the 
investment of community resources, especially since reconstructing a new public 
building in future dollars is generally more expensive.  Fire and other natural 
disasters like earthquakes can be a low likelihood event when considering 
building code requirements, but when it happens, we don't want to rebuild from 
scratch, especially when it comes to big buildings and important buildings.  
Fires can also be an immediate secondary event after an earthquake where 
multiple simultaneous fires occur to add to the chaos and destruction with 
emergency services stretched thin... and other things like this happen as 
reported at 
http://www.historynet.com/the-great-1906-san-francisco-earthquake-and-fire.htm: 
 "One of the first casualties was Fire Chief Engineer Dennis T. Sullivan, who 
was mortally wounded when a chimney from the California Theater smashed without 
warning into the fire station where he was living. The fire department, faced 
with the greatest crisis in its history, was effectively decapitated."

Predicting how owners will actually use the building and what future contents 
will be in the building is hard.  I would point out that in many cases, public 
school buildings that were not designed as emergency shelters are often used as 
emergency shelters and can be found with various other potentially 
unanticipated uses ranging from voting stations to weekend religious services 
to student sleep-ins.  I would also highlight that NFPA 13 annex guidance on 
storage commodity classifications finally/recently changed to catch up with the 
reality of modern storage and packaging due to the uses of higher BTU plastics 
replacing the traditional materials prevalent when the previous annex guidance 
was first put in the standard.

On a relate note, we have even had difficulties in the past convincing some 
local jurisdictions that resisted protecting fire stations with fire sprinklers 
when the building codes clearly require them to be sprinklered [when budget 
concerns and possibly some fire service hubris combined].  We had to educate 
them on both the legal requirements and the reasoning behind the code 
requirements and the political reality of trying to get it rebuilt if it did 
burn down after we had told them it was required to be protected by 
sprinklers...  PS:  Google fires in fire stations to get link to articles like 
this:  http://mentalfloss.com/article/22704/do-fire-stations-ever-catch-fire

Respectfully,

David Blackwell

David Blackwell, P.E.
Chief Engineer
(803)896-9833

Office of State Fire Marshal
141 Monticello Trail | Columbia, SC 29203
http://statefire.llr.sc.gov/
(803)896-9800

"Our firefighting starts with plan review..."

From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On 
Behalf Of å... 
Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2018 1:18 AM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Subject: High School Weight Room - epistemology of fire hazard classification

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I doubt LH at top of gym ceiling will control rolled up mats of PU/expanded 
foam.. Even with over pressure.

Now, if we want to design MORE EXPLICITLY by risk analyses
 (and consider  ignition likelihood... [or just use the words "cauase and 
origin" to get hits when lawyers conduct expert witness searches" ])
let us go there.

Consider:  how many of our Electronic Equipment or Information Technology rooms 
with pre-action systems are in
such a state of readiness that they will control their design fire? Design 
being:  density over area

 Answer:  maybe, maybe...  3/4 of SIPA systems in N. America (includes Mexico) 
which are 7-years on from commissioning, will be able to control their design 
fire.
  Essentially 25+% of owners are running without any active, automatic  fire 
protection in these occupancies...
  So by previous logic applied to defend LH in school gyms, since fires are not 
a big problem in Information Technology rooms,
  (at least not a big enough problem that they are a current industry concern 
of note) we could  then
  not put ANY pre-action SIPA sprinklers in Intformation Technology rooms 
because many of these rooms essentially don't have working sprinklers.
  And this has not created a problem of note.

Use of  

Re: High School Weight Room - epistemology of fire hazard classification

[Bruce Verhei]

The rolled up mats I’ve seen were in side rooms. Then the mats moved in for 
summer. 18’ x 30’ x 9.5’h ?
Stuffed. 

Best.

Bruce Verhei 

> On Oct 29, 2018, at 09:10, Steve Leyton  wrote:
> 
> All of this is accurate of course … in the vacuum of What If.   I guess we’ll 
> have to do fire and smoke models on multipurpose rooms now before we move 
> forward with Light or Ordinary Hazard.   
>  
> How many rolled up mats?  5?   10?   What about FCLs, should we throw in 5 x 
> cases of 1 gal. containers because they’re going to re-varnish the basketball 
> court one of these summers?At what point is a banana just a banana, Anna? 
>   
>  
> By the way, we project gyms and MPRs for OH because of all the community 
> uses.  Fitness (and hotel) rooms … not so much.
>  
> Peace out y’all, this horse is dead and battered.   Plus, I’m going on a 
> two-week vacation.
>  
> SML
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
> From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] 
> On Behalf Of å... 
> Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2018 10:18 PM
> To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
> Subject: High School Weight Room - epistemology of fire hazard classification
>  
>  
>  
>  
> I doubt LH at top of gym ceiling will control rolled up mats of PU/expanded 
> foam.. Even with over pressure.
>  
> Now, if we want to design MORE EXPLICITLY by risk analyses 
>  (and consider  ignition likelihood... [or just use the words "cauase and 
> origin" to get hits when lawyers conduct expert witness searches" ])
> let us go there.
>  
> Consider:  how many of our Electronic Equipment or Information Technology 
> rooms with pre-action systems are in 
> such a state of readiness that they will control their design fire? 
> Design being:  density over area
>  
>  Answer:  maybe, maybe...  3/4 of SIPA systems in N. America (includes 
> Mexico) which are 7-years on from commissioning, will be able to control 
> their design fire.
>   Essentially 25+% of owners are running without any active, automatic  fire 
> protection in these occupancies... 
>   So by previous logic applied to defend LH in school gyms, since fires are 
> not a big problem in Information Technology rooms, 
>   (at least not a big enough problem that they are a current industry concern 
> of note) we could  then
>   not put ANY pre-action SIPA sprinklers in Intformation Technology rooms 
> because many of these rooms essentially don't have working sprinklers.
>   And this has not created a problem of note.
>  
> Use of  risk analyses would make a LOT of our fire protection work goes away.
> Fire is rare.
> It is not because our "fancy bling-bling fire systems" (e.g. "dirty agent gas 
> systems marketed as clean agent; SIPA, DIPA, ) are so reliable that we have 
> tolerable fire losses.
> It is because Mr. Fire comes to town so seldom, in these occupancies, that we 
> have tolerable losses..
>  
> Yes, school students should be able to evacuate a sprinklered gymnasium 
> before untenable fire conditions develop.  
> Risk analyses should show these students are able to evacuate safely even 
> without a sprinkler system.
> And yes, ignition is extremely infrequent in schools.  
> But these risk arguments fuel a decision for NO sprinklers, not an argument 
> to install sprinklers using less water delivery.
> The PU mats in the gym (especially mats oriened vertically) represent a fire 
> hazard well beyond LH.
>  
> Is flexible foam in a gym different than flexible foam in movie theater 
> seating?
> A gym can serve different purposes (tupperware bake sales);  a movie theatre 
> is less versatile.   
> Come to think of it, if a fire developed in several movie theatre flexible 
> foam seats (a very implausible scenario) 
>I doubt LH would control such a fire in a theater, especially with 
> pitched rows of seating.  
>The radiative feedback created by the row-seating enclosure would aid 
> fire spread.   
> But fire is so rare there, we don't care.
>  
> NFPA 13 currently focusses mostly on fire hazard.  It design to the hazard.
> If we want to design to the likelihood, that is fine and an advancement of 
> the art that I welcome.
>  
> NFPA 13, 25 and the Building Code seldom address explicitly:  fire risk 
> analyses,  likelihoods of ignition and likelihoods of RAM.  
> They should do this more.  And they should include more cost implications.
> It is realized keeping sprinkler costs down is a real concern to maintaining 
> an income in fire protection.  It is a conern because many
> owners and clients realize that Mr. Fire is an infrequent visitor.  Thus they 
> make their own risk analyses and pressure designers to 
> value engineer the fire protection budget downwards.
>  
> Risk analyses is local, because risk tolerance is local
> That is why when making a risk based assumption (and virtually all design 
> decisions of consequence are risk based),
> the assumptions SHOULD be memorialized on the drawing, next to the design 
> 

RE: High School Weight Room - epistemology of fire hazard classification

[Steve Leyton]

All of this is accurate of course … in the vacuum of What If.   I guess we’ll 
have to do fire and smoke models on multipurpose rooms now before we move 
forward with Light or Ordinary Hazard.

How many rolled up mats?  5?   10?   What about FCLs, should we throw in 5 x 
cases of 1 gal. containers because they’re going to re-varnish the basketball 
court one of these summers?At what point is a banana just a banana, Anna?

By the way, we project gyms and MPRs for OH because of all the community uses.  
Fitness (and hotel) rooms … not so much.

Peace out y’all, this horse is dead and battered.   Plus, I’m going on a 
two-week vacation.

SML





From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On 
Behalf Of å... 
Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2018 10:18 PM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Subject: High School Weight Room - epistemology of fire hazard classification




I doubt LH at top of gym ceiling will control rolled up mats of PU/expanded 
foam.. Even with over pressure.

Now, if we want to design MORE EXPLICITLY by risk analyses
 (and consider  ignition likelihood... [or just use the words "cauase and 
origin" to get hits when lawyers conduct expert witness searches" ])
let us go there.

Consider:  how many of our Electronic Equipment or Information Technology rooms 
with pre-action systems are in
such a state of readiness that they will control their design fire? Design 
being:  density over area

 Answer:  maybe, maybe...  3/4 of SIPA systems in N. America (includes Mexico) 
which are 7-years on from commissioning, will be able to control their design 
fire.
  Essentially 25+% of owners are running without any active, automatic  fire 
protection in these occupancies...
  So by previous logic applied to defend LH in school gyms, since fires are not 
a big problem in Information Technology rooms,
  (at least not a big enough problem that they are a current industry concern 
of note) we could  then
  not put ANY pre-action SIPA sprinklers in Intformation Technology rooms 
because many of these rooms essentially don't have working sprinklers.
  And this has not created a problem of note.

Use of  risk analyses would make a LOT of our fire protection work goes away.
Fire is rare.
It is not because our "fancy bling-bling fire systems" (e.g. "dirty agent gas 
systems marketed as clean agent; SIPA, DIPA, ) are so reliable that we have 
tolerable fire losses.
It is because Mr. Fire comes to town so seldom, in these occupancies, that we 
have tolerable losses..

Yes, school students should be able to evacuate a sprinklered gymnasium before 
untenable fire conditions develop.
Risk analyses should show these students are able to evacuate safely even 
without a sprinkler system.
And yes, ignition is extremely infrequent in schools.
But these risk arguments fuel a decision for NO sprinklers, not an argument to 
install sprinklers using less water delivery.
The PU mats in the gym (especially mats oriened vertically) represent a fire 
hazard well beyond LH.

Is flexible foam in a gym different than flexible foam in movie theater seating?
A gym can serve different purposes (tupperware bake sales);  a movie theatre is 
less versatile.
Come to think of it, if a fire developed in several movie theatre flexible foam 
seats (a very implausible scenario)
   I doubt LH would control such a fire in a theater, especially with 
pitched rows of seating.
   The radiative feedback created by the row-seating enclosure would aid 
fire spread.
But fire is so rare there, we don't care.

NFPA 13 currently focusses mostly on fire hazard.  It design to the hazard.
If we want to design to the likelihood, that is fine and an advancement of the 
art that I welcome.

NFPA 13, 25 and the Building Code seldom address explicitly:  fire risk 
analyses,  likelihoods of ignition and likelihoods of RAM.
They should do this more.  And they should include more cost implications.
It is realized keeping sprinkler costs down is a real concern to maintaining an 
income in fire protection.  It is a conern because many
owners and clients realize that Mr. Fire is an infrequent visitor.  Thus they 
make their own risk analyses and pressure designers to
value engineer the fire protection budget downwards.

Risk analyses is local, because risk tolerance is local
That is why when making a risk based assumption (and virtually all design 
decisions of consequence are risk based),
the assumptions SHOULD be memorialized on the drawing, next to the design guide 
citations.
Really important design decisions should be memorialized on metal plaques and 
sunk into the wall at the building entry, with stakeholders names.

Unfortunately, we usually don't mention the decision rational explicitly, 
burying the decision trail under mounds of detail instead.
Then when the fatalities happen (not in said gyms), we pay SMEs who write 
the safety codes to sift through the ashes of buried details.

As resources 

Re: High School Weight Room

[Bruce Verhei]

The IFC doesn’t mean much until you put an inspector in the field. 

> On Oct 26, 2018, at 18:56, Joe Burtell  wrote:
> 
> I'm not saying to regulate at a local level, it should be done by UL, FM, 
> IBC, IFC, etc... We didn't have this toxic stuff we have today 50 years ago.
> Best regards,
> 
> Joe Burtell, SET, CFPS
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> Phone | Fax | Mobile| Text 406-545-0784
> 
> 116 N. 11th Street | Billings, MT 59101
> 
> Email: j...@burtellfire.com
> 
> Web Site: http://www.burtellfire.com
> 
> “The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price 
> is forgotten.”
> 
> NOTICE:  The information contained in this e-mail transmission is intended 
> only for use of the individual or entity named above.  This e-mail 
> transmission, and any documents, files, previous e-mail transmissions or 
> other information attached to it, may contain confidential information that 
> is legally privileged.  If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail 
> transmission, or the employee or agent responsible for delivering it to the 
> intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, 
> dissemination, distribution, copying or other use of this transmission or any 
> of the information contained in or attached to this e-mail is strictly 
> prohibited.  If you have received this e-mail transmission in error, please 
> immediately notify us by return e-mail transmission and destroy the original 
> e-mail transmission as well as its attachments without reading or saving it 
> in any manner.  Thank you.
> 
> 
> 
>> On Fri, Oct 26, 2018 at 4:39 PM Bruce Verhei  wrote:
>> I don’t know what density is required. I’m still listening. 
>> 
>> I can tell you from the fire marshals office perspective trying to regulate 
>> type of foam and cover would be an exercise in futility.
>> 
>> Best.
>> 
>> Bruce Verhei 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Oct 26, 2018, at 14:41, Joe Burtell  wrote:
>>> 
>>> If we go around basing everything on potential what if's and more often 
>>> than not, a rare situation, we are going to have more and more expensive 
>>> systems which keep adding to why owners do not want them in the first 
>>> place. Unless someone can show some fire testing or data the wrestling 
>>> rooms are a major problem with fires, I agree with Steve. I'm sure the 
>>> walls of the band practice booth are full of plastics and foam, should they 
>>> be OH or EX? Maybe a better approach would be to not allow these toxic 
>>> materials in the first place?
>>> Best regards,
>>> 
>>> Joe Burtell, SET, CFPS
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Phone | Fax | Mobile| Text 406-545-0784
>>> 
>>> 116 N. 11th Street | Billings, MT 59101
>>> 
>>> Email: j...@burtellfire.com
>>> 
>>> Web Site: http://www.burtellfire.com
>>> 
>>> “The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low 
>>> price is forgotten.”
>>> 
>>> NOTICE:  The information contained in this e-mail transmission is intended 
>>> only for use of the individual or entity named above.  This e-mail 
>>> transmission, and any documents, files, previous e-mail transmissions or 
>>> other information attached to it, may contain confidential information that 
>>> is legally privileged.  If you are not the intended recipient of this 
>>> e-mail transmission, or the employee or agent responsible for delivering it 
>>> to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, 
>>> dissemination, distribution, copying or other use of this transmission or 
>>> any of the information contained in or attached to this e-mail is strictly 
>>> prohibited.  If you have received this e-mail transmission in error, please 
>>> immediately notify us by return e-mail transmission and destroy the 
>>> original e-mail transmission as well as its attachments without reading or 
>>> saving it in any manner.  Thank you.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Fri, Oct 26, 2018 at 9:57 AM Steve Leyton  
>>>> wrote:
>>>> Of course.   But your question presupposes (and some of the narrative on 
>>>> this thread alludes to) scenarios where mats on the walls, stored to the 
>>>> ceilings, scattered about in adjacent rooms, etc., etc.   
>>>> 
>>>> Original Question:  Does anyone have any information supporting high 
>>>> school wrestling, fitness, and weight rooms being OH2 due to the rubber 
&

Re: High School Weight Room

[Joe Burtell]

I'm not saying to regulate at a local level, it should be done by UL, FM,
IBC, IFC, etc... We didn't have this toxic stuff we have today 50 years ago.

Best regards,

*Joe Burtell, SET, CFPS*



[image: Burtell Fire_Small]

Phone | Fax | Mobile| Text *406-545-0784 <++1-406-545-0784>*

116 N. 11th Street | Billings, MT 59101

Email: j...@burtellfire.com

Web Site: http://www.burtellfire.com

*“**The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low
price is forgotten.**”*

*NOTICE:*  The information contained in this e-mail transmission is
intended only for use of the individual or entity named above.  This e-mail
transmission, and any documents, files, previous e-mail transmissions or
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e-mail transmission, or the employee or agent responsible for delivering it
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On Fri, Oct 26, 2018 at 4:39 PM Bruce Verhei  wrote:

> I don’t know what density is required. I’m still listening.
>
> I can tell you from the fire marshals office perspective trying to
> regulate type of foam and cover would be an exercise in futility.
>
> Best.
>
> Bruce Verhei
>
>
>
> On Oct 26, 2018, at 14:41, Joe Burtell  wrote:
>
> If we go around basing everything on potential what if's and more often
> than not, a rare situation, we are going to have more and more expensive
> systems which keep adding to why owners do not want them in the first
> place. Unless someone can show some fire testing or data the wrestling
> rooms are a major problem with fires, I agree with Steve. I'm sure the
> walls of the band practice booth are full of plastics and foam, should they
> be OH or EX? Maybe a better approach would be to not allow these toxic
> materials in the first place?
>
> Best regards,
>
> *Joe Burtell, SET, CFPS*
>
>
>
> [image: Burtell Fire_Small]
>
> Phone | Fax | Mobile| Text *406-545-0784 <++1-406-545-0784>*
>
> 116 N. 11th Street | Billings, MT 59101
>
> Email: j...@burtellfire.com
>
> Web Site: http://www.burtellfire.com
>
> *“**The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of
> low price is forgotten.**”*
>
> *NOTICE:*  The information contained in this e-mail transmission is
> intended only for use of the individual or entity named above.  This e-mail
> transmission, and any documents, files, previous e-mail transmissions or
> other information attached to it, may contain confidential information that
> is legally privileged.  If you are not the intended recipient of this
> e-mail transmission, or the employee or agent responsible for delivering it
> to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure,
> dissemination, distribution, copying or other use of this transmission or
> any of the information contained in or attached to this e-mail is strictly
> prohibited.  If you have received this e-mail transmission in error, please
> immediately notify us by return e-mail transmission and destroy the
> original e-mail transmission as well as its attachments without reading or
> saving it in any manner.  Thank you.
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 26, 2018 at 9:57 AM Steve Leyton 
> wrote:
>
>> Of course.   But your question presupposes (and some of the narrative on
>> this thread alludes to) scenarios where mats on the walls, stored to the
>> ceilings, scattered about in adjacent rooms, etc., etc.
>>
>> Original Question:  Does anyone have any information supporting high
>> school wrestling, fitness, and weight rooms being OH2 due to the rubber
>> floors or foam mats?
>>
>> Weight rooms and fitness rooms and wrestling rooms have morphed into
>> off-season high-piled storage (because expanded plastics in piles to 7’ are
>> HPS).Weight rooms?  Fitness (i.e. yoga and Zumba) rooms?   I stand by
>> my refusal to concur that the sky is falling.
>>
>>
>>
>> SL
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Sprinklerforum [mailto:
>> sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] *On Behalf Of *Fpdcdesign
>> *Sent:* Friday, October 26, 2018 8:53 AM
>> *To:* Sprinklerforum
>> *Subject:* Re: High School Weight Room
>>
>>
>>
>

Re: High School Weight Room

[Nick Maneen]

My $0.025 worth of opinion...if you have a modest water supply, say 60psi
static, that first head isn't going to flow at the 19.6 (14x14 @0.1
density) minimum. It is going to go off at 43 gpm (sounds EH to me), then
the second goes off,  then the third...We calc for a minimum required, not
an actual flow. Second, what is the purpose here? We are putting enough
water on the fire to keep things in control until the big red trucks
arrive. Let's keep things in perspective and not overthink it. Other than
the mats, what is there to burn? If one were to light these mats on fire,
will the wrestlers have time to get up and escape? Light hazard in my
humble opinion.

Nick Maneen, SET
704-791-7789

On Fri, Oct 26, 2018, 6:39 PM Bruce Verhei  wrote:

> I don’t know what density is required. I’m still listening.
>
> I can tell you from the fire marshals office perspective trying to
> regulate type of foam and cover would be an exercise in futility.
>
> Best.
>
> Bruce Verhei
>
>
>
> On Oct 26, 2018, at 14:41, Joe Burtell  wrote:
>
> If we go around basing everything on potential what if's and more often
> than not, a rare situation, we are going to have more and more expensive
> systems which keep adding to why owners do not want them in the first
> place. Unless someone can show some fire testing or data the wrestling
> rooms are a major problem with fires, I agree with Steve. I'm sure the
> walls of the band practice booth are full of plastics and foam, should they
> be OH or EX? Maybe a better approach would be to not allow these toxic
> materials in the first place?
>
> Best regards,
>
> *Joe Burtell, SET, CFPS*
>
>
>
> [image: Burtell Fire_Small]
>
> Phone | Fax | Mobile| Text *406-545-0784 <++1-406-545-0784>*
>
> 116 N. 11th Street | Billings, MT 59101
>
> Email: j...@burtellfire.com
>
> Web Site: http://www.burtellfire.com
>
> *“**The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of
> low price is forgotten.**”*
>
> *NOTICE:*  The information contained in this e-mail transmission is
> intended only for use of the individual or entity named above.  This e-mail
> transmission, and any documents, files, previous e-mail transmissions or
> other information attached to it, may contain confidential information that
> is legally privileged.  If you are not the intended recipient of this
> e-mail transmission, or the employee or agent responsible for delivering it
> to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure,
> dissemination, distribution, copying or other use of this transmission or
> any of the information contained in or attached to this e-mail is strictly
> prohibited.  If you have received this e-mail transmission in error, please
> immediately notify us by return e-mail transmission and destroy the
> original e-mail transmission as well as its attachments without reading or
> saving it in any manner.  Thank you.
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 26, 2018 at 9:57 AM Steve Leyton 
> wrote:
>
>> Of course.   But your question presupposes (and some of the narrative on
>> this thread alludes to) scenarios where mats on the walls, stored to the
>> ceilings, scattered about in adjacent rooms, etc., etc.
>>
>> Original Question:  Does anyone have any information supporting high
>> school wrestling, fitness, and weight rooms being OH2 due to the rubber
>> floors or foam mats?
>>
>> Weight rooms and fitness rooms and wrestling rooms have morphed into
>> off-season high-piled storage (because expanded plastics in piles to 7’ are
>> HPS).Weight rooms?  Fitness (i.e. yoga and Zumba) rooms?   I stand by
>> my refusal to concur that the sky is falling.
>>
>>
>>
>> SL
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Sprinklerforum [mailto:
>> sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] *On Behalf Of *Fpdcdesign
>> *Sent:* Friday, October 26, 2018 8:53 AM
>> *To:* Sprinklerforum
>> *Subject:* Re: High School Weight Room
>>
>>
>>
>> If we see or are aware of a hazard greater than what the book says it
>> should be, don’t we have the responsibility to design to that? This is
>> especially true for me with those 2 extra letters after my name.
>>
>>
>> Todd G Williams, PE
>>
>> Fire Protection Design/Consulting
>>
>> Stonington, CT
>>
>> 860-535-2080 (ofc)
>>
>> 860-553-3553 (fax)
>>
>> 860-608-4559 (cell)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Oct 26, 2018 at 11:46 AM, >
>> wrote:
>>
>> That’s fine, there’s a statutory requirement.  Out here, any stage-like
>> structure – even if it’s just a platform in a school or communit

Re: High School Weight Room

[Bruce Verhei]

I don’t know what density is required. I’m still listening. 

I can tell you from the fire marshals office perspective trying to regulate 
type of foam and cover would be an exercise in futility.

Best.

Bruce Verhei 



> On Oct 26, 2018, at 14:41, Joe Burtell  wrote:
> 
> If we go around basing everything on potential what if's and more often than 
> not, a rare situation, we are going to have more and more expensive systems 
> which keep adding to why owners do not want them in the first place. Unless 
> someone can show some fire testing or data the wrestling rooms are a major 
> problem with fires, I agree with Steve. I'm sure the walls of the band 
> practice booth are full of plastics and foam, should they be OH or EX? Maybe 
> a better approach would be to not allow these toxic materials in the first 
> place?
> Best regards,
> 
> Joe Burtell, SET, CFPS
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> Phone | Fax | Mobile| Text 406-545-0784
> 
> 116 N. 11th Street | Billings, MT 59101
> 
> Email: j...@burtellfire.com
> 
> Web Site: http://www.burtellfire.com
> 
> “The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price 
> is forgotten.”
> 
> NOTICE:  The information contained in this e-mail transmission is intended 
> only for use of the individual or entity named above.  This e-mail 
> transmission, and any documents, files, previous e-mail transmissions or 
> other information attached to it, may contain confidential information that 
> is legally privileged.  If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail 
> transmission, or the employee or agent responsible for delivering it to the 
> intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, 
> dissemination, distribution, copying or other use of this transmission or any 
> of the information contained in or attached to this e-mail is strictly 
> prohibited.  If you have received this e-mail transmission in error, please 
> immediately notify us by return e-mail transmission and destroy the original 
> e-mail transmission as well as its attachments without reading or saving it 
> in any manner.  Thank you.
> 
> 
> 
>> On Fri, Oct 26, 2018 at 9:57 AM Steve Leyton  
>> wrote:
>> Of course.   But your question presupposes (and some of the narrative on 
>> this thread alludes to) scenarios where mats on the walls, stored to the 
>> ceilings, scattered about in adjacent rooms, etc., etc.   
>> 
>> Original Question:  Does anyone have any information supporting high school 
>> wrestling, fitness, and weight rooms being OH2 due to the rubber floors or 
>> foam mats?
>> 
>> Weight rooms and fitness rooms and wrestling rooms have morphed into 
>> off-season high-piled storage (because expanded plastics in piles to 7’ are 
>> HPS).Weight rooms?  Fitness (i.e. yoga and Zumba) rooms?   I stand by my 
>> refusal to concur that the sky is falling.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> SL
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] 
>> On Behalf Of Fpdcdesign
>> Sent: Friday, October 26, 2018 8:53 AM
>> To: Sprinklerforum
>> Subject: Re: High School Weight Room
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> If we see or are aware of a hazard greater than what the book says it should 
>> be, don’t we have the responsibility to design to that? This is especially 
>> true for me with those 2 extra letters after my name.
>> 
>> 
>> Todd G Williams, PE
>> 
>> Fire Protection Design/Consulting
>> 
>> Stonington, CT
>> 
>> 860-535-2080 (ofc)
>> 
>> 860-553-3553 (fax)
>> 
>> 860-608-4559 (cell)
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Oct 26, 2018 at 11:46 AM,  wrote:
>> 
>> That’s fine, there’s a statutory requirement.  Out here, any stage-like 
>> structure – even if it’s just a platform in a school or community MPR is 
>> considered OH2 if it’s got a curtain.  I get that, but that wasn’t the 
>> question.   As to your warehouse with no ignition sources, good luck moving 
>> the goods off of ladders.  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> SML
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] 
>> On Behalf Of Reed A. Roisum, SET
>> Sent: Friday, October 26, 2018 8:37 AM
>> To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
>> Subject: RE: High School Weight Room
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> FYI… The State of Minnesota believes that wrestling rooms and gymnastic 
>> rooms are not light hazard as they amended the fire code (2012 IFC) to 
>> require OH2 

Re: High School Weight Room

[Joe Burtell]

If we go around basing everything on potential what if's and more often
than not, a rare situation, we are going to have more and more expensive
systems which keep adding to why owners do not want them in the first
place. Unless someone can show some fire testing or data the wrestling
rooms are a major problem with fires, I agree with Steve. I'm sure the
walls of the band practice booth are full of plastics and foam, should they
be OH or EX? Maybe a better approach would be to not allow these toxic
materials in the first place?

Best regards,

*Joe Burtell, SET, CFPS*



[image: Burtell Fire_Small]

Phone | Fax | Mobile| Text *406-545-0784 <++1-406-545-0784>*

116 N. 11th Street | Billings, MT 59101

Email: j...@burtellfire.com

Web Site: http://www.burtellfire.com

*“**The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low
price is forgotten.**”*

*NOTICE:*  The information contained in this e-mail transmission is
intended only for use of the individual or entity named above.  This e-mail
transmission, and any documents, files, previous e-mail transmissions or
other information attached to it, may contain confidential information that
is legally privileged.  If you are not the intended recipient of this
e-mail transmission, or the employee or agent responsible for delivering it
to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure,
dissemination, distribution, copying or other use of this transmission or
any of the information contained in or attached to this e-mail is strictly
prohibited.  If you have received this e-mail transmission in error, please
immediately notify us by return e-mail transmission and destroy the
original e-mail transmission as well as its attachments without reading or
saving it in any manner.  Thank you.


On Fri, Oct 26, 2018 at 9:57 AM Steve Leyton 
wrote:

> Of course.   But your question presupposes (and some of the narrative on
> this thread alludes to) scenarios where mats on the walls, stored to the
> ceilings, scattered about in adjacent rooms, etc., etc.
>
> Original Question:  Does anyone have any information supporting high
> school wrestling, fitness, and weight rooms being OH2 due to the rubber
> floors or foam mats?
>
> Weight rooms and fitness rooms and wrestling rooms have morphed into
> off-season high-piled storage (because expanded plastics in piles to 7’ are
> HPS).Weight rooms?  Fitness (i.e. yoga and Zumba) rooms?   I stand by
> my refusal to concur that the sky is falling.
>
>
>
> SL
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Sprinklerforum [mailto:
> sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] *On Behalf Of *Fpdcdesign
> *Sent:* Friday, October 26, 2018 8:53 AM
> *To:* Sprinklerforum
> *Subject:* Re: High School Weight Room
>
>
>
> If we see or are aware of a hazard greater than what the book says it
> should be, don’t we have the responsibility to design to that? This is
> especially true for me with those 2 extra letters after my name.
>
>
> Todd G Williams, PE
>
> Fire Protection Design/Consulting
>
> Stonington, CT
>
> 860-535-2080 (ofc)
>
> 860-553-3553 (fax)
>
> 860-608-4559 (cell)
>
>
>
>
> On Oct 26, 2018 at 11:46 AM, >
> wrote:
>
> That’s fine, there’s a statutory requirement.  Out here, any stage-like
> structure – even if it’s just a platform in a school or community MPR is
> considered OH2 if it’s got a curtain.  I get that, but that wasn’t the
> question.   As to your warehouse with no ignition sources, good luck moving
> the goods off of ladders.
>
>
>
> SML
>
>
>
> *From:* Sprinklerforum [mailto:
> sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] *On Behalf Of *Reed A.
> Roisum, SET
> *Sent:* Friday, October 26, 2018 8:37 AM
> *To:* sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
> *Subject:* RE: High School Weight Room
>
>
>
> FYI… The State of Minnesota believes that wrestling rooms and gymnastic
> rooms are not light hazard as they amended the fire code (2012 IFC) to
> require OH2 for those spaces.
>
>
>
> *2015 MN Fire Code*
>
> *SECTION 903*
>
> *AUTOMATIC SPRINKLER SYSTEMS*
>
> *903.3 Installation requirements.*
>
> *903.3.1 Standards. *
>
> *903.3.1.5 Special sprinkler design criteria.** When fire sprinkler
> systems are required in areas containing the following uses, they shall be
> designed and installed to have a sprinkler density of not less than that
> required for an Ordinary Hazard Group 2 use:*
>
> *1. Chemistry labs; or*
>
> *2. Wrestling or gymnastic rooms.*
>
>
>
> Not trying to be difficult Steve, but is having a potential ignition
> source or not relevant to what the sprinkler density should be?  What if
> you had rack storage of plastics in a room with the only ignition source
> the hous

RE: High School Weight Room

[Steve Leyton]

Of course.   But your question presupposes (and some of the narrative on this 
thread alludes to) scenarios where mats on the walls, stored to the ceilings, 
scattered about in adjacent rooms, etc., etc.
Original Question:  Does anyone have any information supporting high school 
wrestling, fitness, and weight rooms being OH2 due to the rubber floors or foam 
mats?
Weight rooms and fitness rooms and wrestling rooms have morphed into off-season 
high-piled storage (because expanded plastics in piles to 7’ are HPS).
Weight rooms?  Fitness (i.e. yoga and Zumba) rooms?   I stand by my refusal to 
concur that the sky is falling.

SL



From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On 
Behalf Of Fpdcdesign
Sent: Friday, October 26, 2018 8:53 AM
To: Sprinklerforum
Subject: Re: High School Weight Room

If we see or are aware of a hazard greater than what the book says it should 
be, don’t we have the responsibility to design to that? This is especially true 
for me with those 2 extra letters after my name.

Todd G Williams, PE
Fire Protection Design/Consulting
Stonington, CT
860-535-2080 (ofc)
860-553-3553 (fax)
860-608-4559 (cell)



On Oct 26, 2018 at 11:46 AM, mailto:st...@protectiondesign.com>> 
wrote:
That’s fine, there’s a statutory requirement.  Out here, any stage-like 
structure – even if it’s just a platform in a school or community MPR is 
considered OH2 if it’s got a curtain.  I get that, but that wasn’t the 
question.   As to your warehouse with no ignition sources, good luck moving the 
goods off of ladders.

SML

From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On 
Behalf Of Reed A. Roisum, SET
Sent: Friday, October 26, 2018 8:37 AM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Subject: RE: High School Weight Room

FYI… The State of Minnesota believes that wrestling rooms and gymnastic rooms 
are not light hazard as they amended the fire code (2012 IFC) to require OH2 
for those spaces.

2015 MN Fire Code
SECTION 903
AUTOMATIC SPRINKLER SYSTEMS
903.3 Installation requirements.
903.3.1 Standards.
903.3.1.5 Special sprinkler design criteria. When fire sprinkler systems are 
required in areas containing the following uses, they shall be designed and 
installed to have a sprinkler density of not less than that required for an 
Ordinary Hazard Group 2 use:
1. Chemistry labs; or
2. Wrestling or gymnastic rooms.

Not trying to be difficult Steve, but is having a potential ignition source or 
not relevant to what the sprinkler density should be?  What if you had rack 
storage of plastics in a room with the only ignition source the house 
electrical system??


Reed A. Roisum, SET | Karges-Faulconbridge, Inc. | Senior Fire Protection 
Designer | Fargo, ND | direct: 701.552.9903 | mobile: 701.388.1352 | 
KFIengineers.com<http://www.kfiengineers.com>
From: Sprinklerforum  On Behalf 
Of Steve Leyton
Sent: Friday, October 26, 2018 10:20 AM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Subject: RE: High School Weight Room

What about hoarders?   I’ve seen homes (or photos of them) that should be EH2.

This thread started as a question about a wrestling room and quickly escalated 
to mats on the floor, mats on the walls, mats rolled up and stored in the room, 
in the adjacent room … it became an accessory occupancy to a wrestling mat 
factory.I wrestled for 3 years; except for guys three and four classes 
heavier rubbing my face into the mat like a pot scrubber, I can’t think of a 
single ignition source in such a room except for the house electrical system.   
 I say, K.I.S.S. and move on …  and sincerest apologies if my tone was 
misconstrued.

SL


From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On 
Behalf Of Fpdcdesign
Sent: Friday, October 26, 2018 3:50 AM
To: Sprinklerforum
Subject: Re: High School Weight Room

Steve, I think the gist of this is intended use vs actual use. One layer of 
floor mats is not that big a deal. A 7 ft stack of mats in a room during the 
summer is. I have seen a lot of stuff in school athletic facilities moved 
around and and stored to the point where LH is not really acceptable.

Typically these rooms are not huge, so how much of a difference in piping is 
there between LH and OH?

Todd G Williams, PE
Fire Protection Design/Consulting
Stonington, CT
860-535-2080 (ofc)
860-553-3553 (fax)
860-608-4559 (cell)

On Oct 25, 2018 at 7:52 PM, mailto:st...@protectiondesign.com>> 
wrote:
So you believe that a movie theater seating area should be a higher hazard 
group because of all the exposed expanded plastics on the seating?  What about 
the concentration of exposed expanded plastics in a hotel Room??  To bring 
plastics into the conversation because of portable floor covering is a 
distortion of the intent of the standard in my humble opinion.



Steve Leyton

(Sent from my phone; please excuse typos and voice text corruptions.)



 Original message 
From: Scott 

Re: High School Weight Room

[Fpdcdesign]

  
  

 If we see or are aware of a hazard greater than what the book says it should 
be, don’t we have the responsibility to design to that? This is especially true 
for me with those 2 extra letters after my name.
  
  
  
 Todd G Williams, PE  
Fire Protection Design/Consulting
  
Stonington, CT
  
860-535-2080 (ofc)
  
860-553-3553 (fax)
  
860-608-4559 (cell)
  
  
  
  

  
  
>   
> On Oct 26, 2018 at 11:46 AM,   (mailto:st...@protectiondesign.com)>  wrote:
>   
>   
> 
>   
>
> That’s fine, there’s a statutory requirement.Out here, any stage-like 
> structure – even if it’s just a platform in a school or community MPR is 
> considered OH2 if it’s got a curtain.I get that, but that wasn’t the 
> question.  As to your warehouse with no ignition sources, good luck 
> moving the goods off of ladders. 
>
>   
>
>   
>
>   
>
> SML
>
>   
>
>   
>
>   
>   
>   
>
>  From:Sprinklerforum 
> [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org]  On Behalf Of  Reed 
> A. Roisum, SET
>   Sent:  Friday, October 26, 2018 8:37 AM
>   To:  sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
>   Subject:  RE: High School Weight Room
>
>   
>   
>   
>
>   
>
>   
>
> FYI… The State of Minnesota believes that wrestling rooms and gymnastic rooms 
> are not light hazard as they amended the fire code (2012 IFC) to require OH2 
> for those spaces.
>
>   
>
>   
>
>   
>
> 2015 MN Fire Code
>
>   
>
> SECTION 903
>
>   
>
> AUTOMATIC SPRINKLER SYSTEMS
>
>   
>
> 903.3 Installation requirements.
>
>   
>
>   903.3.1 Standards.   
>
>   
>
> 903.3.1.5 Special sprinkler design criteria.   When fire sprinkler systems 
> are required in areas containing the following uses, they shall be designed 
> and installed to have a sprinkler density of not less than that required for 
> an Ordinary Hazard Group 2 use:
>
>   
>
> 1. Chemistry labs; or
>
>   
>
> 2.  Wrestling or gymnastic rooms.
>
>   
>
>   
>
>   
>
> Not trying to be difficult Steve, but is having a potential ignition source 
> or not relevant to what the sprinkler density should be?What if you had 
> rack storage of plastics in a room with the only ignition source the house 
> electrical system??
>
>   
>
>   
>
>   
>   
>
>  Reed A. Roisum, SET|Karges-Faulconbridge, Inc.|Senior Fire Protection 
> Designer    |   Fargo, ND|   direct:701.552.9903   |
> mobile:701.388.1352|KFIengineers.com (http://www.kfiengineers.com)
>
>   
>   
>   
>   
>
> From:  Sprinklerforum On 
> Behalf Of  Steve Leyton
>   Sent:  Friday, October 26, 2018 10:20 AM
>   To:  sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
>   Subject:  RE: High School Weight Room
>
>   
>   
>   
>
>   
>
>   
>
> What about hoarders?  I’ve seen homes (or photos of them) that should be 
> EH2.
>
>   
>
>   
>
>   
>
> This thread started as a question about a wrestling room and quickly 
> escalated to mats on the floor, mats on the walls, mats rolled up and stored 
> in the room, in the adjacent room … it became an accessory occupancy to a 
> wrestling mat factory.I wrestled for 3 years; except for guys three 
> and four classes heavier rubbing my face into the mat like a pot scrubber, I 
> can’t think of a single ignition source in such a room except for the house 
> electrical system. I say, K.I.S.S. and move on …and sincerest 
> apologies if my tone was misconstrued.   
>
>   
>
>   
>
>   
>
> SL
>
>   
>
>   
>
>   
>
>   
>
>   
>   
>   
>
>  From:Sprinklerforum 
> [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org]  On Behalf Of  
> Fpdcdesign
>   Sent:  Friday, October 26, 2018 3:50 AM
>   To:  Sprinklerforum
>   Subject:  Re: High School Weight Room
>
>   
>   
>   
>
>   
>
>   
>   
>
> Steve, I think the gist of this is intended use vs actual use. One layer of 
> floor mats is not that big a deal. A 7 ft stack of mats in a room during the 
> summer is. I have seen a lot of stuff in school athletic facilities moved 
> around and and stored to the point where LH is not really acceptable.   
>
>   
>   
>   
>
>   
>
>   
>   
>   
>
> Typically these rooms are not huge, so how much of a difference in piping is 
> there between LH and OH?   
>
>   
>   
>   
>   
>
>
>  Todd G Williams, PE
>
>   
>   
>
> Fire Protection Design/Consulting
>
>   
>   
>   
>
> Stonington, C

RE: High School Weight Room

[Steve Leyton]

That’s fine, there’s a statutory requirement.  Out here, any stage-like 
structure – even if it’s just a platform in a school or community MPR is 
considered OH2 if it’s got a curtain.  I get that, but that wasn’t the 
question.   As to your warehouse with no ignition sources, good luck moving the 
goods off of ladders.

SML

From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On 
Behalf Of Reed A. Roisum, SET
Sent: Friday, October 26, 2018 8:37 AM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Subject: RE: High School Weight Room

FYI… The State of Minnesota believes that wrestling rooms and gymnastic rooms 
are not light hazard as they amended the fire code (2012 IFC) to require OH2 
for those spaces.

2015 MN Fire Code
SECTION 903
AUTOMATIC SPRINKLER SYSTEMS
903.3 Installation requirements.
903.3.1 Standards.
903.3.1.5 Special sprinkler design criteria. When fire sprinkler systems are 
required in areas containing the following uses, they shall be designed and 
installed to have a sprinkler density of not less than that required for an 
Ordinary Hazard Group 2 use:
1. Chemistry labs; or
2. Wrestling or gymnastic rooms.

Not trying to be difficult Steve, but is having a potential ignition source or 
not relevant to what the sprinkler density should be?  What if you had rack 
storage of plastics in a room with the only ignition source the house 
electrical system??


Reed A. Roisum, SET | Karges-Faulconbridge, Inc. | Senior Fire Protection 
Designer | Fargo, ND | direct: 701.552.9903 | mobile: 701.388.1352 | 
KFIengineers.com<http://www.kfiengineers.com>
From: Sprinklerforum  On Behalf 
Of Steve Leyton
Sent: Friday, October 26, 2018 10:20 AM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Subject: RE: High School Weight Room

What about hoarders?   I’ve seen homes (or photos of them) that should be EH2.

This thread started as a question about a wrestling room and quickly escalated 
to mats on the floor, mats on the walls, mats rolled up and stored in the room, 
in the adjacent room … it became an accessory occupancy to a wrestling mat 
factory.I wrestled for 3 years; except for guys three and four classes 
heavier rubbing my face into the mat like a pot scrubber, I can’t think of a 
single ignition source in such a room except for the house electrical system.   
 I say, K.I.S.S. and move on …  and sincerest apologies if my tone was 
misconstrued.

SL


From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On 
Behalf Of Fpdcdesign
Sent: Friday, October 26, 2018 3:50 AM
To: Sprinklerforum
Subject: Re: High School Weight Room

Steve, I think the gist of this is intended use vs actual use. One layer of 
floor mats is not that big a deal. A 7 ft stack of mats in a room during the 
summer is. I have seen a lot of stuff in school athletic facilities moved 
around and and stored to the point where LH is not really acceptable.

Typically these rooms are not huge, so how much of a difference in piping is 
there between LH and OH?

Todd G Williams, PE
Fire Protection Design/Consulting
Stonington, CT
860-535-2080 (ofc)
860-553-3553 (fax)
860-608-4559 (cell)

On Oct 25, 2018 at 7:52 PM, mailto:st...@protectiondesign.com>> 
wrote:
So you believe that a movie theater seating area should be a higher hazard 
group because of all the exposed expanded plastics on the seating?  What about 
the concentration of exposed expanded plastics in a hotel Room??  To bring 
plastics into the conversation because of portable floor covering is a 
distortion of the intent of the standard in my humble opinion.



Steve Leyton

(Sent from my phone; please excuse typos and voice text corruptions.)



 Original message 
From: Scott Futrell mailto:sco...@ffcdi.com>>
Date: 10/25/18 4:24 PM (GMT-08:00)
To: 
sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org>
Subject: RE: High School Weight Room

Exposed, expanded, Group A Plastics and when put on walls and/or floors, and/or 
rolled up, would not be protected adequately by LH.

Scott

Office: (763) 425-1001 x 2
Cell: (612) 759-5556

From: Sprinklerforum 
mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org>>
 On Behalf Of Ron Greenman
Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2018 9:38 AM
To: 
sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org>
Subject: Re: High School Weight Room

I wonder if the fuel load from those rubber/plasticine mats is greater than 
that of the carpeting and furnishings in an office space. Seems like it might 
be more than just the synthetic carpeting, but the gym is devoid of all the 
desks, chairs, computers, electrical cords, cubicle walls, etc., that are in an 
office space.


Ron Greenman
rongreen...@gmail.com<mailto:rongreen...@gmail.com>

253.576.9700

The Universe is monstrously indifferent to the presence of man. -Werner Herzog, 
screenwriter, film director, author, actor and opera director (1942-)


On

RE: High School Weight Room

[Reed A. Roisum, SET]

FYI… The State of Minnesota believes that wrestling rooms and gymnastic rooms 
are not light hazard as they amended the fire code (2012 IFC) to require OH2 
for those spaces.

2015 MN Fire Code
SECTION 903
AUTOMATIC SPRINKLER SYSTEMS
903.3 Installation requirements.
903.3.1 Standards.
903.3.1.5 Special sprinkler design criteria. When fire sprinkler systems are 
required in areas containing the following uses, they shall be designed and 
installed to have a sprinkler density of not less than that required for an 
Ordinary Hazard Group 2 use:
1. Chemistry labs; or
2. Wrestling or gymnastic rooms.

Not trying to be difficult Steve, but is having a potential ignition source or 
not relevant to what the sprinkler density should be?  What if you had rack 
storage of plastics in a room with the only ignition source the house 
electrical system??


Reed A. Roisum, SET | Karges-Faulconbridge, Inc. | Senior Fire Protection 
Designer | Fargo, ND | direct: 701.552.9903 | mobile: 701.388.1352 | 
KFIengineers.com<http://www.kfiengineers.com>
From: Sprinklerforum  On Behalf 
Of Steve Leyton
Sent: Friday, October 26, 2018 10:20 AM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Subject: RE: High School Weight Room

What about hoarders?   I’ve seen homes (or photos of them) that should be EH2.

This thread started as a question about a wrestling room and quickly escalated 
to mats on the floor, mats on the walls, mats rolled up and stored in the room, 
in the adjacent room … it became an accessory occupancy to a wrestling mat 
factory.I wrestled for 3 years; except for guys three and four classes 
heavier rubbing my face into the mat like a pot scrubber, I can’t think of a 
single ignition source in such a room except for the house electrical system.   
 I say, K.I.S.S. and move on …  and sincerest apologies if my tone was 
misconstrued.

SL


From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On 
Behalf Of Fpdcdesign
Sent: Friday, October 26, 2018 3:50 AM
To: Sprinklerforum
Subject: Re: High School Weight Room

Steve, I think the gist of this is intended use vs actual use. One layer of 
floor mats is not that big a deal. A 7 ft stack of mats in a room during the 
summer is. I have seen a lot of stuff in school athletic facilities moved 
around and and stored to the point where LH is not really acceptable.

Typically these rooms are not huge, so how much of a difference in piping is 
there between LH and OH?

Todd G Williams, PE
Fire Protection Design/Consulting
Stonington, CT
860-535-2080 (ofc)
860-553-3553 (fax)
860-608-4559 (cell)


On Oct 25, 2018 at 7:52 PM, mailto:st...@protectiondesign.com>> 
wrote:
So you believe that a movie theater seating area should be a higher hazard 
group because of all the exposed expanded plastics on the seating?  What about 
the concentration of exposed expanded plastics in a hotel Room??  To bring 
plastics into the conversation because of portable floor covering is a 
distortion of the intent of the standard in my humble opinion.



Steve Leyton

(Sent from my phone; please excuse typos and voice text corruptions.)



 Original message 
From: Scott Futrell mailto:sco...@ffcdi.com>>
Date: 10/25/18 4:24 PM (GMT-08:00)
To: 
sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org>
Subject: RE: High School Weight Room

Exposed, expanded, Group A Plastics and when put on walls and/or floors, and/or 
rolled up, would not be protected adequately by LH.

Scott

Office: (763) 425-1001 x 2
Cell: (612) 759-5556

From: Sprinklerforum 
mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org>>
 On Behalf Of Ron Greenman
Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2018 9:38 AM
To: 
sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org>
Subject: Re: High School Weight Room

I wonder if the fuel load from those rubber/plasticine mats is greater than 
that of the carpeting and furnishings in an office space. Seems like it might 
be more than just the synthetic carpeting, but the gym is devoid of all the 
desks, chairs, computers, electrical cords, cubicle walls, etc., that are in an 
office space.


Ron Greenman
rongreen...@gmail.com<mailto:rongreen...@gmail.com>

253.576.9700

The Universe is monstrously indifferent to the presence of man. -Werner Herzog, 
screenwriter, film director, author, actor and opera director (1942-)


On Thu, Oct 25, 2018 at 6:14 AM Steve Leyton 
mailto:st...@protectiondesign.com>> wrote:
More than half our work is with educational and institutional occupancies in 
California, where code amendments and interpretations always lean to the 
restrictive side of center.  We have always protected weight and wrestling and 
yoga and fitness and community rooms as Light Hazard  without much push back 
from our state jurisdictional agencies..


Steve Leyton

(Sent from my phone; please excuse typos and voice text corruptions.)



 Orig

RE: High School Weight Room

[Steve Leyton]

What about hoarders?   I’ve seen homes (or photos of them) that should be EH2.

This thread started as a question about a wrestling room and quickly escalated 
to mats on the floor, mats on the walls, mats rolled up and stored in the room, 
in the adjacent room … it became an accessory occupancy to a wrestling mat 
factory.I wrestled for 3 years; except for guys three and four classes 
heavier rubbing my face into the mat like a pot scrubber, I can’t think of a 
single ignition source in such a room except for the house electrical system.   
 I say, K.I.S.S. and move on …  and sincerest apologies if my tone was 
misconstrued.

SL


From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On 
Behalf Of Fpdcdesign
Sent: Friday, October 26, 2018 3:50 AM
To: Sprinklerforum
Subject: Re: High School Weight Room

Steve, I think the gist of this is intended use vs actual use. One layer of 
floor mats is not that big a deal. A 7 ft stack of mats in a room during the 
summer is. I have seen a lot of stuff in school athletic facilities moved 
around and and stored to the point where LH is not really acceptable.

Typically these rooms are not huge, so how much of a difference in piping is 
there between LH and OH?

Todd G Williams, PE
Fire Protection Design/Consulting
Stonington, CT
860-535-2080 (ofc)
860-553-3553 (fax)
860-608-4559 (cell)



On Oct 25, 2018 at 7:52 PM, mailto:st...@protectiondesign.com>> 
wrote:
So you believe that a movie theater seating area should be a higher hazard 
group because of all the exposed expanded plastics on the seating?  What about 
the concentration of exposed expanded plastics in a hotel Room??  To bring 
plastics into the conversation because of portable floor covering is a 
distortion of the intent of the standard in my humble opinion.



Steve Leyton

(Sent from my phone; please excuse typos and voice text corruptions.)



 Original message 
From: Scott Futrell 
Date: 10/25/18 4:24 PM (GMT-08:00)
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Subject: RE: High School Weight Room

Exposed, expanded, Group A Plastics and when put on walls and/or floors, and/or 
rolled up, would not be protected adequately by LH.

Scott

Office: (763) 425-1001 x 2
Cell: (612) 759-5556

From: Sprinklerforum  On Behalf 
Of Ron Greenman
Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2018 9:38 AM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Subject: Re: High School Weight Room

I wonder if the fuel load from those rubber/plasticine mats is greater than 
that of the carpeting and furnishings in an office space. Seems like it might 
be more than just the synthetic carpeting, but the gym is devoid of all the 
desks, chairs, computers, electrical cords, cubicle walls, etc., that are in an 
office space.


Ron Greenman
rongreen...@gmail.com<mailto:rongreen...@gmail.com>

253.576.9700

The Universe is monstrously indifferent to the presence of man. -Werner Herzog, 
screenwriter, film director, author, actor and opera director (1942-)


On Thu, Oct 25, 2018 at 6:14 AM Steve Leyton 
mailto:st...@protectiondesign.com>> wrote:
More than half our work is with educational and institutional occupancies in 
California, where code amendments and interpretations always lean to the 
restrictive side of center.  We have always protected weight and wrestling and 
yoga and fitness and community rooms as Light Hazard  without much push back 
from our state jurisdictional agencies..


Steve Leyton

(Sent from my phone; please excuse typos and voice text corruptions.)



 Original message 
From: Joe Burtell mailto:j...@burtellfire.com>>
Date: 10/25/18 4:35 AM (GMT-08:00)
To: 
sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org>
Subject: High School Weight Room

Does anyone have any information supporting high school wrestling, fitness, and 
weight rooms being OH2 due to the rubber floors or foam mats? It seems overkill 
to me but new information is always coming out.

Best regards,

Joe Burtell, SET, CFPS



Phone | Fax | Mobile| Text 406-545-0784

116 N. 11th Street | Billings, MT 59101

Email: j...@burtellfire.com<mailto:j...@burtellfire.com>

Web Site: http://www.burtellfire.com<http://www.burtellfire.com/>

“The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price 
is forgotten.”

NOTICE:  The information contained in this e-mail transmission is intended only 
for use of the individual or entity named above.  This e-mail transmission, and 
any documents, files, previous e-mail transmissions or other information 
attached to it, may contain confidential information that is legally 
privileged.  If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail transmission, 
or the employee or agent responsible for delivering it to the intended 
recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, dissemination, 
distribution, copying or other use of this transmission or any of the 
information contained

RE: High School Weight Room

[Matthew J Willis]

Isn’t it amazing how quick we go from LH to Storage occupancy.
The basis for the answer is going to be heat release. That is the only other 
thing than height to be concerned with.
The fact that they become storage rooms in the summer is good due diligence, 
but outside our purview.

R/
Matt

Matthew J. Willis, CWBSP
Design Manager /3-D Specialist
Rapid Fire Protection Inc.<http://rapidfireinc.com/>
1530 Samco Road
Rapid City, SD 57702
Office-605.348.2342
Direct Line-605.593.5063
Cell-605.391.2733
Fax:-605.348.0108

[cid:image001.png@01D159E8.1A3A2D00]

From: Sprinklerforum  On Behalf 
Of Fpdcdesign
Sent: Friday, October 26, 2018 4:50 AM
To: Sprinklerforum 
Subject: Re: High School Weight Room

Steve, I think the gist of this is intended use vs actual use. One layer of 
floor mats is not that big a deal. A 7 ft stack of mats in a room during the 
summer is. I have seen a lot of stuff in school athletic facilities moved 
around and and stored to the point where LH is not really acceptable.

Typically these rooms are not huge, so how much of a difference in piping is 
there between LH and OH?

Todd G Williams, PE
Fire Protection Design/Consulting
Stonington, CT
860-535-2080 (ofc)
860-553-3553 (fax)
860-608-4559 (cell)



On Oct 25, 2018 at 7:52 PM, mailto:st...@protectiondesign.com>> 
wrote:
So you believe that a movie theater seating area should be a higher hazard 
group because of all the exposed expanded plastics on the seating?  What about 
the concentration of exposed expanded plastics in a hotel Room??  To bring 
plastics into the conversation because of portable floor covering is a 
distortion of the intent of the standard in my humble opinion.



Steve Leyton

(Sent from my phone; please excuse typos and voice text corruptions.)



 Original message 
From: Scott Futrell mailto:sco...@ffcdi.com>>
Date: 10/25/18 4:24 PM (GMT-08:00)
To: 
sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org>
Subject: RE: High School Weight Room

Exposed, expanded, Group A Plastics and when put on walls and/or floors, and/or 
rolled up, would not be protected adequately by LH.

Scott

Office: (763) 425-1001 x 2
Cell: (612) 759-5556

From: Sprinklerforum 
mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org>>
 On Behalf Of Ron Greenman
Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2018 9:38 AM
To: 
sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org>
Subject: Re: High School Weight Room

I wonder if the fuel load from those rubber/plasticine mats is greater than 
that of the carpeting and furnishings in an office space. Seems like it might 
be more than just the synthetic carpeting, but the gym is devoid of all the 
desks, chairs, computers, electrical cords, cubicle walls, etc., that are in an 
office space.


Ron Greenman
rongreen...@gmail.com<mailto:rongreen...@gmail.com>

253.576.9700

The Universe is monstrously indifferent to the presence of man. -Werner Herzog, 
screenwriter, film director, author, actor and opera director (1942-)


On Thu, Oct 25, 2018 at 6:14 AM Steve Leyton 
mailto:st...@protectiondesign.com>> wrote:
More than half our work is with educational and institutional occupancies in 
California, where code amendments and interpretations always lean to the 
restrictive side of center.  We have always protected weight and wrestling and 
yoga and fitness and community rooms as Light Hazard  without much push back 
from our state jurisdictional agencies..


Steve Leyton

(Sent from my phone; please excuse typos and voice text corruptions.)



 Original message 
From: Joe Burtell mailto:j...@burtellfire.com>>
Date: 10/25/18 4:35 AM (GMT-08:00)
To: 
sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org>
Subject: High School Weight Room

Does anyone have any information supporting high school wrestling, fitness, and 
weight rooms being OH2 due to the rubber floors or foam mats? It seems overkill 
to me but new information is always coming out.

Best regards,

Joe Burtell, SET, CFPS



Phone | Fax | Mobile| Text 406-545-0784

116 N. 11th Street | Billings, MT 59101

Email: j...@burtellfire.com<mailto:j...@burtellfire.com>

Web Site: http://www.burtellfire.com<http://www.burtellfire.com/>

“The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price 
is forgotten.”

NOTICE:  The information contained in this e-mail transmission is intended only 
for use of the individual or entity named above.  This e-mail transmission, and 
any documents, files, previous e-mail transmissions or other information 
attached to it, may contain confidential information that is legally 
privileged.  If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail transmission, 
or the employee or agent responsible for delivering it to the intended 
recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, dissemination, 
distribution, copyin

Re: High School Weight Room

[Fpdcdesign]

  
  

 Steve, I think the gist of this is intended use vs actual use. One layer of 
floor mats is not that big a deal. A 7 ft stack of mats in a room during the 
summer is. I have seen a lot of stuff in school athletic facilities moved 
around and and stored to the point where LH is not really acceptable.   
  

  
Typically these rooms are not huge, so how much of a difference in piping is 
there between LH and OH?   
  
  
  
 Todd G Williams, PE  
Fire Protection Design/Consulting
  
Stonington, CT
  
860-535-2080 (ofc)
  
860-553-3553 (fax)
  
860-608-4559 (cell)
  
  
  
  

  
  
>   
> On Oct 25, 2018 at 7:52 PM,   (mailto:st...@protectiondesign.com)>  wrote:
>   
>   
> 
> So you believe that a movie theater seating area should be a higher hazard 
> group because of all the exposed expanded plastics on the seating?What 
> about the concentration of exposed expanded plastics in a hotel Room??To 
> bring plastics into the conversation because of portable floor covering is a 
> distortion of the intent of the standard in my humble opinion.
>   
>
>   
>
>   
>
>   
> Steve Leyton 
>
>   
> (Sent from my phone; please excuse typos and voice text corruptions.)
>   
>
> 
>
>   
>
>   
>  Original message 
>   
> From: Scott Futrell  
>   
> Date: 10/25/18 4:24 PM (GMT-08:00)
>   
> To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
>   
> Subject: RE: High School Weight Room
>   
>
>   
>   
>   
>
>  Exposed, expanded, Group A Plastics and when put on walls and/or floors, 
> and/or rolled up, would not be protected adequately by LH.
>
>   
>
> 
>
>   
>
>  Scott
>
>   
>
> 
>
>   
>
>  Office: (763) 425-1001 x 2
>
>   
>
>  Cell: (612) 759-5556
>
>   
>
> 
>
>   
>
> From:  Sprinklerforum On 
> Behalf Of  Ron Greenman
>   Sent:  Thursday, October 25, 2018 9:38 AM
>   To:  sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
>   Subject:  Re: High School Weight Room
>
>   
>
>   
>
>   
>   
>
> I wonder if the fuel load from those rubber/plasticine mats is greater than 
> that of the carpeting and furnishings in an office space. Seems like it might 
> be more than just the synthetic carpeting, but the gym is devoid of all the 
> desks, chairs, computers, electrical cords, cubicle walls, etc., that are in 
> an office space.   
>
>
>   
>   
>   
>   
>   
>   
>   
>   
>   
>   
>   
>
>   
>
>   
>   
>   
>
>   
>
>   
>   
>   
>
> Ron Greenman
>
>   
>   
>
> rongreen...@gmail.com (mailto:rongreen...@gmail.com)
>   
>  253.576.9700
>
>   
>   
>   
>
>   
>
>   
>   
>   
>
> The Universe is monstrously indifferent to the presence of man. -Werner 
> Herzog, screenwriter, film director, author, actor and opera director   
> (1942-)
>
>   
>   
>   
>   
>   
>   
>   
>   
>   
>   
>   
>   
>
>   
>
>   
>   
>
>   
>
>   
>   
>   
>
> On Thu, Oct 25, 2018 at 6:14 AM Steve Leyton   (mailto:st...@protectiondesign.com)>  wrote:
>
>   
>   
> >   
> >   
> >   
> >
> > More than half our work is with educational and institutional occupancies 
> > in California, where code amendments and interpretations always lean to the 
> > restrictive side of center.We have always protected weight and 
> > wrestling and yoga and fitness and community rooms as Light Hazard
> > without much push back from our state jurisdictional agencies..
> >
> >   
> >   
> >   
> >
> >   
> >
> >   
> >   
> >   
> >
> >   
> >
> >   
> >   
> >   
> >
> > Steve Leyton   
> >
> >   
> >   
> >
> >   
> >
> >   
> >   
> >   
> >
> > (Sent from my phone; please excuse typos and voice text corruptions.)
> >
> >   
> >   
> >   
> >
> >   
> >
> >   
> >   
> >   
> >   
> >
> >   
> >
> >   
> >   
> >   
> >
> >   
> >
> >   
> >   
> >   
> >
> >  Original message 
> >
> >   
> >   
> >   
> >
> > From: Joe Burtell  mailto:j...@burtellfire.com)>
> >
> >   
> >   
> >   
> >
> > Date: 10/25/18 4:35 AM (GMT-08:00)
> >
> >   
> >   
> >   
> >
> > To:  sprinklerforum@lists.firesprin

Re: High School Weight Room

[Bruce Verhei]

We always conducted normal annual fire inspection during summer closure. In the 
couple school districts we served the mats were stored for summer in an 
adjacent store room. The room was full and you couldn’t enter. We just looked 
from doors on either side.

Best.

Bruce Verhei 

> On Oct 25, 2018, at 20:08, Joe Burtell  wrote:
> 
> Based on what section? It's not rack storage, it's not high piled storage, 
> it's not even miscellaneous storage. Just because a automotive repair garage 
> has car inside it with tires on it does not make it a tire storage facility. 
> Now if they are storing new or used tires or this room was a distribution 
> storage room for new mats, that would be different.
> Best regards,
> 
> Joe Burtell, SET, CFPS
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> Phone | Fax | Mobile| Text 406-545-0784
> 
> 116 N. 11th Street | Billings, MT 59101
> 
> Email: j...@burtellfire.com
> 
> Web Site: http://www.burtellfire.com
> 
> “The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price 
> is forgotten.”
> 
> NOTICE:  The information contained in this e-mail transmission is intended 
> only for use of the individual or entity named above.  This e-mail 
> transmission, and any documents, files, previous e-mail transmissions or 
> other information attached to it, may contain confidential information that 
> is legally privileged.  If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail 
> transmission, or the employee or agent responsible for delivering it to the 
> intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, 
> dissemination, distribution, copying or other use of this transmission or any 
> of the information contained in or attached to this e-mail is strictly 
> prohibited.  If you have received this e-mail transmission in error, please 
> immediately notify us by return e-mail transmission and destroy the original 
> e-mail transmission as well as its attachments without reading or saving it 
> in any manner.  Thank you.
> 
> 
> 
>> On Thu, Oct 25, 2018 at 5:24 PM Scott Futrell  wrote:
>> Exposed, expanded, Group A Plastics and when put on walls and/or floors, 
>> and/or rolled up, would not be protected adequately by LH.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Scott
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Office: (763) 425-1001 x 2
>> 
>> Cell: (612) 759-5556
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> From: Sprinklerforum  On 
>> Behalf Of Ron Greenman
>> Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2018 9:38 AM
>> To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
>> Subject: Re: High School Weight Room
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> I wonder if the fuel load from those rubber/plasticine mats is greater than 
>> that of the carpeting and furnishings in an office space. Seems like it 
>> might be more than just the synthetic carpeting, but the gym is devoid of 
>> all the desks, chairs, computers, electrical cords, cubicle walls, etc., 
>> that are in an office space. 
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Ron Greenman
>> 
>> rongreen...@gmail.com
>> 
>> 253.576.9700
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> The Universe is monstrously indifferent to the presence of man. -Werner 
>> Herzog, screenwriter, film director, author, actor and opera director (1942-)
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> On Thu, Oct 25, 2018 at 6:14 AM Steve Leyton  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> More than half our work is with educational and institutional occupancies in 
>> California, where code amendments and interpretations always lean to the 
>> restrictive side of center.  We have always protected weight and wrestling 
>> and yoga and fitness and community rooms as Light Hazard  without much push 
>> back from our state jurisdictional agencies..
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Steve Leyton 
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> (Sent from my phone; please excuse typos and voice text corruptions.)
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  Original message 
>> 
>> From: Joe Burtell 
>> 
>> Date: 10/25/18 4:35 AM (GMT-08:00)
>> 
>> To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
>> 
>> Subject: High School Weight Room 
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Does anyone have any information supporting high school wrestling, fitness, 
>> and weight rooms being OH2 due to the rubber floors or foam mats? It seems 
>> overkill to me but new information is always coming out.
>> 
>> Best regards,
>> 
>> Joe Burtell, SET, CFPS
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Phone | Fax | Mobile| Text 406-545-0784
>> 
>> 116 N. 11th Street | Billings,

Re: High School Weight Room

[Joe Burtell]

Based on what section? It's not rack storage, it's not high piled storage,
it's not even miscellaneous storage. Just because a automotive repair
garage has car inside it with tires on it does not make it a tire storage
facility. Now if they are storing new or used tires or this room was a
distribution storage room for new mats, that would be different.

Best regards,

*Joe Burtell, SET, CFPS*



[image: Burtell Fire_Small]

Phone | Fax | Mobile| Text *406-545-0784 <++1-406-545-0784>*

116 N. 11th Street | Billings, MT 59101

Email: j...@burtellfire.com

Web Site: http://www.burtellfire.com

*“**The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low
price is forgotten.**”*

*NOTICE:*  The information contained in this e-mail transmission is
intended only for use of the individual or entity named above.  This e-mail
transmission, and any documents, files, previous e-mail transmissions or
other information attached to it, may contain confidential information that
is legally privileged.  If you are not the intended recipient of this
e-mail transmission, or the employee or agent responsible for delivering it
to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure,
dissemination, distribution, copying or other use of this transmission or
any of the information contained in or attached to this e-mail is strictly
prohibited.  If you have received this e-mail transmission in error, please
immediately notify us by return e-mail transmission and destroy the
original e-mail transmission as well as its attachments without reading or
saving it in any manner.  Thank you.


On Thu, Oct 25, 2018 at 5:24 PM Scott Futrell  wrote:

> Exposed, expanded, Group A Plastics and when put on walls and/or floors,
> and/or rolled up, would not be protected adequately by LH.
>
>
>
> Scott
>
>
>
> Office: (763) 425-1001 x 2
>
> Cell: (612) 759-5556
>
>
>
> *From:* Sprinklerforum  *On
> Behalf Of *Ron Greenman
> *Sent:* Thursday, October 25, 2018 9:38 AM
> *To:* sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
> *Subject:* Re: High School Weight Room
>
>
>
> I wonder if the fuel load from those rubber/plasticine mats is greater
> than that of the carpeting and furnishings in an office space. Seems like
> it might be more than just the synthetic carpeting, but the gym is devoid
> of all the desks, chairs, computers, electrical cords, cubicle walls, etc.,
> that are in an office space.
>
>
>
>
>
> Ron Greenman
>
> rongreen...@gmail.com
>
> 253.576.9700
>
>
>
> The Universe is monstrously indifferent to the presence of man. -Werner
> Herzog, screenwriter, film director, author, actor and opera
> director (1942-)
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 25, 2018 at 6:14 AM Steve Leyton 
> wrote:
>
> More than half our work is with educational and institutional occupancies
> in California, where code amendments and interpretations always lean to the
> restrictive side of center.  We have always protected weight and wrestling
> and yoga and fitness and community rooms as Light Hazard  without much push
> back from our state jurisdictional agencies..
>
>
>
>
>
> Steve Leyton
>
>
>
> (Sent from my phone; please excuse typos and voice text corruptions.)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  Original message 
>
> From: Joe Burtell 
>
> Date: 10/25/18 4:35 AM (GMT-08:00)
>
> To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
>
> Subject: High School Weight Room
>
>
>
> Does anyone have any information supporting high school wrestling,
> fitness, and weight rooms being OH2 due to the rubber floors or foam mats?
> It seems overkill to me but new information is always coming out.
>
> Best regards,
>
> *Joe Burtell, SET, CFPS*
>
>
>
> Phone | Fax | Mobile| Text *406-545-0784 <++1-406-545-0784>*
>
> 116 N. 11th Street | Billings, MT 59101
>
> Email: j...@burtellfire.com
>
> Web Site: http://www.burtellfire.com
>
> *“**The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of
> low price is forgotten.”*
>
> *NOTICE:*  The information contained in this e-mail transmission is
> intended only for use of the individual or entity named above.  This e-mail
> transmission, and any documents, files, previous e-mail transmissions or
> other information attached to it, may contain confidential information that
> is legally privileged.  If you are not the intended recipient of this
> e-mail transmission, or the employee or agent responsible for delivering it
> to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure,
> dissemination, distribution, copying or other use of this transmission or
> any of the information contained in or attached to this e-mail is strictly
> prohibited.  If you h

RE: High School Weight Room

[Scott Futrell]

Beg my pardon. I guess the question was about hotels and theatres that seem 
different to me than a mat storage, or wrestling room areas.

If you put a hard rubber mat on the floor that's one thing, right?  Padding on 
the floor for wrestling, and on walls, and / or rolled up and stacked, didn't 
realize that was the same as the rubber mat.

Sorry, please disregard the exposed, expanded Group A Plastic fuel load. I 
would have thought you might be concerned with the fuel load however it was 
presented.

Scott

Office: (763) 425-1001 x 2
Cell: (612) 759-5556

From: Sprinklerforum  On Behalf 
Of Steve Leyton
Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2018 6:52 PM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Subject: Re: High School Weight Room

So you believe that a movie theater seating area should be a higher hazard 
group because of all the exposed expanded plastics on the seating?  What about 
the concentration of exposed expanded plastics in a hotel Room??  To bring 
plastics into the conversation because of portable floor covering is a 
distortion of the intent of the standard in my humble opinion.



Steve Leyton

(Sent from my phone; please excuse typos and voice text corruptions.)



 Original message 
From: Scott Futrell mailto:sco...@ffcdi.com>>
Date: 10/25/18 4:24 PM (GMT-08:00)
To: 
sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org>
Subject: RE: High School Weight Room

Exposed, expanded, Group A Plastics and when put on walls and/or floors, and/or 
rolled up, would not be protected adequately by LH.

Scott

Office: (763) 425-1001 x 2
Cell: (612) 759-5556

From: Sprinklerforum 
mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org>>
 On Behalf Of Ron Greenman
Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2018 9:38 AM
To: 
sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org>
Subject: Re: High School Weight Room

I wonder if the fuel load from those rubber/plasticine mats is greater than 
that of the carpeting and furnishings in an office space. Seems like it might 
be more than just the synthetic carpeting, but the gym is devoid of all the 
desks, chairs, computers, electrical cords, cubicle walls, etc., that are in an 
office space.


Ron Greenman
rongreen...@gmail.com<mailto:rongreen...@gmail.com>

253.576.9700

The Universe is monstrously indifferent to the presence of man. -Werner Herzog, 
screenwriter, film director, author, actor and opera director (1942-)


On Thu, Oct 25, 2018 at 6:14 AM Steve Leyton 
mailto:st...@protectiondesign.com>> wrote:
More than half our work is with educational and institutional occupancies in 
California, where code amendments and interpretations always lean to the 
restrictive side of center.  We have always protected weight and wrestling and 
yoga and fitness and community rooms as Light Hazard  without much push back 
from our state jurisdictional agencies..


Steve Leyton

(Sent from my phone; please excuse typos and voice text corruptions.)



 Original message 
From: Joe Burtell mailto:j...@burtellfire.com>>
Date: 10/25/18 4:35 AM (GMT-08:00)
To: 
sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org>
Subject: High School Weight Room

Does anyone have any information supporting high school wrestling, fitness, and 
weight rooms being OH2 due to the rubber floors or foam mats? It seems overkill 
to me but new information is always coming out.

Best regards,

Joe Burtell, SET, CFPS



Phone | Fax | Mobile| Text 406-545-0784

116 N. 11th Street | Billings, MT 59101

Email: j...@burtellfire.com<mailto:j...@burtellfire.com>

Web Site: http://www.burtellfire.com<http://www.burtellfire.com/>

"The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price 
is forgotten."

NOTICE:  The information contained in this e-mail transmission is intended only 
for use of the individual or entity named above.  This e-mail transmission, and 
any documents, files, previous e-mail transmissions or other information 
attached to it, may contain confidential information that is legally 
privileged.  If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail transmission, 
or the employee or agent responsible for delivering it to the intended 
recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, dissemination, 
distribution, copying or other use of this transmission or any of the 
information contained in or attached to this e-mail is strictly prohibited.  If 
you have received this e-mail transmission in error, please immediately notify 
us by return e-mail transmission and destroy the original e-mail transmission 
as well as its attachments without reading or saving it in any manner.  Thank 
you.
___
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Re: High School Weight Room

[Steve Leyton]

So you believe that a movie theater seating area should be a higher hazard 
group because of all the exposed expanded plastics on the seating?  What about 
the concentration of exposed expanded plastics in a hotel Room??  To bring 
plastics into the conversation because of portable floor covering is a 
distortion of the intent of the standard in my humble opinion.



Steve Leyton

(Sent from my phone; please excuse typos and voice text corruptions.)



 Original message 
From: Scott Futrell 
Date: 10/25/18 4:24 PM (GMT-08:00)
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Subject: RE: High School Weight Room

Exposed, expanded, Group A Plastics and when put on walls and/or floors, and/or 
rolled up, would not be protected adequately by LH.

Scott

Office: (763) 425-1001 x 2
Cell: (612) 759-5556

From: Sprinklerforum  On Behalf 
Of Ron Greenman
Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2018 9:38 AM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Subject: Re: High School Weight Room

I wonder if the fuel load from those rubber/plasticine mats is greater than 
that of the carpeting and furnishings in an office space. Seems like it might 
be more than just the synthetic carpeting, but the gym is devoid of all the 
desks, chairs, computers, electrical cords, cubicle walls, etc., that are in an 
office space.


Ron Greenman
rongreen...@gmail.com<mailto:rongreen...@gmail.com>

253.576.9700

The Universe is monstrously indifferent to the presence of man. -Werner Herzog, 
screenwriter, film director, author, actor and opera director (1942-)


On Thu, Oct 25, 2018 at 6:14 AM Steve Leyton 
mailto:st...@protectiondesign.com>> wrote:
More than half our work is with educational and institutional occupancies in 
California, where code amendments and interpretations always lean to the 
restrictive side of center.  We have always protected weight and wrestling and 
yoga and fitness and community rooms as Light Hazard  without much push back 
from our state jurisdictional agencies..


Steve Leyton

(Sent from my phone; please excuse typos and voice text corruptions.)



 Original message 
From: Joe Burtell mailto:j...@burtellfire.com>>
Date: 10/25/18 4:35 AM (GMT-08:00)
To: 
sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org>
Subject: High School Weight Room

Does anyone have any information supporting high school wrestling, fitness, and 
weight rooms being OH2 due to the rubber floors or foam mats? It seems overkill 
to me but new information is always coming out.

Best regards,

Joe Burtell, SET, CFPS



Phone | Fax | Mobile| Text 406-545-0784

116 N. 11th Street | Billings, MT 59101

Email: j...@burtellfire.com<mailto:j...@burtellfire.com>

Web Site: http://www.burtellfire.com<http://www.burtellfire.com/>

“The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price 
is forgotten.”

NOTICE:  The information contained in this e-mail transmission is intended only 
for use of the individual or entity named above.  This e-mail transmission, and 
any documents, files, previous e-mail transmissions or other information 
attached to it, may contain confidential information that is legally 
privileged.  If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail transmission, 
or the employee or agent responsible for delivering it to the intended 
recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, dissemination, 
distribution, copying or other use of this transmission or any of the 
information contained in or attached to this e-mail is strictly prohibited.  If 
you have received this e-mail transmission in error, please immediately notify 
us by return e-mail transmission and destroy the original e-mail transmission 
as well as its attachments without reading or saving it in any manner.  Thank 
you.
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RE: High School Weight Room

[Scott Futrell]

Exposed, expanded, Group A Plastics and when put on walls and/or floors, and/or 
rolled up, would not be protected adequately by LH.

Scott

Office: (763) 425-1001 x 2
Cell: (612) 759-5556

From: Sprinklerforum  On Behalf 
Of Ron Greenman
Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2018 9:38 AM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Subject: Re: High School Weight Room

I wonder if the fuel load from those rubber/plasticine mats is greater than 
that of the carpeting and furnishings in an office space. Seems like it might 
be more than just the synthetic carpeting, but the gym is devoid of all the 
desks, chairs, computers, electrical cords, cubicle walls, etc., that are in an 
office space.


Ron Greenman
rongreen...@gmail.com<mailto:rongreen...@gmail.com>

253.576.9700

The Universe is monstrously indifferent to the presence of man. -Werner Herzog, 
screenwriter, film director, author, actor and opera director (1942-)


On Thu, Oct 25, 2018 at 6:14 AM Steve Leyton 
mailto:st...@protectiondesign.com>> wrote:
More than half our work is with educational and institutional occupancies in 
California, where code amendments and interpretations always lean to the 
restrictive side of center.  We have always protected weight and wrestling and 
yoga and fitness and community rooms as Light Hazard  without much push back 
from our state jurisdictional agencies..


Steve Leyton

(Sent from my phone; please excuse typos and voice text corruptions.)



 Original message 
From: Joe Burtell mailto:j...@burtellfire.com>>
Date: 10/25/18 4:35 AM (GMT-08:00)
To: 
sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org>
Subject: High School Weight Room

Does anyone have any information supporting high school wrestling, fitness, and 
weight rooms being OH2 due to the rubber floors or foam mats? It seems overkill 
to me but new information is always coming out.

Best regards,

Joe Burtell, SET, CFPS



Phone | Fax | Mobile| Text 406-545-0784

116 N. 11th Street | Billings, MT 59101

Email: j...@burtellfire.com<mailto:j...@burtellfire.com>

Web Site: http://www.burtellfire.com<http://www.burtellfire.com/>

“The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price 
is forgotten.”

NOTICE:  The information contained in this e-mail transmission is intended only 
for use of the individual or entity named above.  This e-mail transmission, and 
any documents, files, previous e-mail transmissions or other information 
attached to it, may contain confidential information that is legally 
privileged.  If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail transmission, 
or the employee or agent responsible for delivering it to the intended 
recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, dissemination, 
distribution, copying or other use of this transmission or any of the 
information contained in or attached to this e-mail is strictly prohibited.  If 
you have received this e-mail transmission in error, please immediately notify 
us by return e-mail transmission and destroy the original e-mail transmission 
as well as its attachments without reading or saving it in any manner.  Thank 
you.
___
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Re: High School Weight Room

[Fpdcdesign]

  
  

 I have seen mats be stacked in a corner or along a wall when school is not in 
session. Also, these rooms tend to be used for all sorts or storage in the 
summer. I would think that this would be greater than Light Hazard
  
  
  
 Todd G Williams, PE  
Fire Protection Design/Consulting
  
Stonington, CT
  
860-535-2080 (ofc)
  
860-553-3553 (fax)
  
860-608-4559 (cell)
  
  
  
  

  
  
>   
> On Oct 25, 2018 at 10:52 AM,   (mailto:st...@protectiondesign.com)>  wrote:
>   
>   
> 
>   
>
>  The might even roll them up over the weekends during whatever season(s) are 
> heaviest uses but … to Ron’s comment, is a rolled mat a more profound fire 
> load than a sofa or the furnishings in alibrary reading area?  Or a 
> mattress and other furnishings in a bedroom?And what are the potential 
> causes in such a space – the use is an inherently light hazard, the fire load 
> notwithstanding, and there’s nothing going on in those rooms that would 
> generate heat enough to cause ignition.   
>
>   
>
> 
>
>   
>
>  How about a spin class room?  All those electrical appliances would 
> certainly present a broader spectrum of cause and origin scenarios, no?   
>I’m pretty comfy with light hazard if the room is just a room, mats and 
> all.
>
>   
>
> 
>
>   
>
>  SL
>
>   
>
> 
>
>   
>   
>   
>
>  From:Sprinklerforum 
> [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org]  On Behalf Of  
> Fpdcdesign
>   Sent:  Thursday, October 25, 2018 7:46 AM
>   To:  Sprinklerforum
>   Subject:  Re: High School Weight Room
>
>   
>   
>   
>
>   
>
>   
>   
>
> Are they going to be stacking the mats in the off season?   
>
>   
>   
>   
>   
>
>
>   
>   
>
>
>   
>   
>
> On Oct 25, 2018 at 10:37 AM,  mailto:rongreen...@gmail.com)>  
> wrote:
>
>   
>   
>   
>   
>
> I wonder if the fuel load from those rubber/plasticine mats is greater than 
> that of the carpeting and furnishings in an office space. Seems like it might 
> be more than just the synthetic carpeting, but the gym is devoid of all the 
> desks, chairs, computers, electrical cords, cubicle walls, etc., that are in 
> an office space.   
>
>
>   
>   
>   
>   
>   
>   
>   
>   
>   
>   
>   
>
>   
>
>   
>   
>   
>
>   
>
>   
>   
>   
>
> Ron Greenman
>
>   
>   
>
> rongreen...@gmail.com (mailto:rongreen...@gmail.com)
>   
>  253.576.9700
>
>   
>   
>   
>
>   
>
>   
>   
>   
>
> The Universe is monstrously indifferent to the presence of man. -Werner 
> Herzog, screenwriter, film director, author, actor and opera director   
> (1942-)
>
>   
>   
>   
>   
>   
>   
>   
>   
>   
>   
>   
>   
>
>   
>
>   
>   
>
>   
>
>   
>   
>   
>
> On Thu, Oct 25, 2018 at 6:14 AM Steve Leyton   (mailto:st...@protectiondesign.com)>  wrote:
>
>   
>   
> >   
> >   
> >   
> >
> > More than half our work is with educational and institutional occupancies 
> > in California, where code amendments and interpretations always lean to the 
> > restrictive side of center.We have always protected weight and 
> > wrestling and yoga and fitness and community rooms as Light Hazard
> > without much push back from our state jurisdictional agencies..
> >
> >   
> >   
> >   
> >
> >   
> >
> >   
> >   
> >   
> >
> >   
> >
> >   
> >   
> >   
> >
> > Steve Leyton   
> >
> >   
> >   
> >
> >   
> >
> >   
> >   
> >   
> >
> > (Sent from my phone; please excuse typos and voice text corruptions.)
> >
> >   
> >   
> >   
> >
> >   
> >
> >   
> >   
> >   
> >   
> >
> >   
> >
> >   
> >   
> >   
> >
> >   
> >
> >   
> >   
> >   
> >
> >  Original message 
> >
> >   
> >   
> >   
> >
> > From: Joe Burtell  mailto:j...@burtellfire.com)>
> >
> >   
> >   
> >   
> >
> > Date: 10/25/18 4:35 AM (GMT-08:00)
> >
> >   
> >   
> >   
> >
> > To:  sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org 
> > (mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org)
> >
> >   
> >   
> >   
> >
> &g

RE: High School Weight Room

[Steve Leyton]

The might even roll them up over the weekends during whatever season(s) are 
heaviest uses but … to Ron’s comment, is a rolled mat a more profound fire load 
than a sofa or the furnishings in a  library reading area?   Or a mattress and 
other furnishings in a bedroom?  And what are the potential causes in such a 
space – the use is an inherently light hazard, the fire load notwithstanding, 
and there’s nothing going on in those rooms that would generate heat enough to 
cause ignition.

How about a spin class room?   All those electrical appliances would certainly 
present a broader spectrum of cause and origin scenarios, no? I’m pretty 
comfy with light hazard if the room is just a room, mats and all.

SL

From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On 
Behalf Of Fpdcdesign
Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2018 7:46 AM
To: Sprinklerforum
Subject: Re: High School Weight Room

Are they going to be stacking the mats in the off season?



On Oct 25, 2018 at 10:37 AM, mailto:rongreen...@gmail.com>> wrote:
I wonder if the fuel load from those rubber/plasticine mats is greater than 
that of the carpeting and furnishings in an office space. Seems like it might 
be more than just the synthetic carpeting, but the gym is devoid of all the 
desks, chairs, computers, electrical cords, cubicle walls, etc., that are in an 
office space.


Ron Greenman
rongreen...@gmail.com<mailto:rongreen...@gmail.com>

253.576.9700

The Universe is monstrously indifferent to the presence of man. -Werner Herzog, 
screenwriter, film director, author, actor and opera director (1942-)


On Thu, Oct 25, 2018 at 6:14 AM Steve Leyton 
mailto:st...@protectiondesign.com>> wrote:
More than half our work is with educational and institutional occupancies in 
California, where code amendments and interpretations always lean to the 
restrictive side of center.  We have always protected weight and wrestling and 
yoga and fitness and community rooms as Light Hazard  without much push back 
from our state jurisdictional agencies..


Steve Leyton

(Sent from my phone; please excuse typos and voice text corruptions.)



 Original message 
From: Joe Burtell mailto:j...@burtellfire.com>>
Date: 10/25/18 4:35 AM (GMT-08:00)
To: 
sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org>
Subject: High School Weight Room

Does anyone have any information supporting high school wrestling, fitness, and 
weight rooms being OH2 due to the rubber floors or foam mats? It seems overkill 
to me but new information is always coming out.

Best regards,

Joe Burtell, SET, CFPS



Error! Filename not specified.

Phone | Fax | Mobile| Text 406-545-0784

116 N. 11th Street | Billings, MT 59101

Email: j...@burtellfire.com<mailto:j...@burtellfire.com>

Web Site: http://www.burtellfire.com<http://www.burtellfire.com/>

“The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price 
is forgotten.”

NOTICE:  The information contained in this e-mail transmission is intended only 
for use of the individual or entity named above.  This e-mail transmission, and 
any documents, files, previous e-mail transmissions or other information 
attached to it, may contain confidential information that is legally 
privileged.  If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail transmission, 
or the employee or agent responsible for delivering it to the intended 
recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, dissemination, 
distribution, copying or other use of this transmission or any of the 
information contained in or attached to this e-mail is strictly prohibited.  If 
you have received this e-mail transmission in error, please immediately notify 
us by return e-mail transmission and destroy the original e-mail transmission 
as well as its attachments without reading or saving it in any manner.  Thank 
you.
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Re: High School Weight Room

[Fpdcdesign]

  
  

 Are they going to be stacking the mats in the off season?   
  

  
  

  
  
>   
> On Oct 25, 2018 at 10:37 AM,  mailto:rongreen...@gmail.com)>  
> wrote:
>   
>   
>   
> I wonder if the fuel load from those rubber/plasticine mats is greater than 
> that of the carpeting and furnishings in an office space. Seems like it might 
> be more than just the synthetic carpeting, but the gym is devoid of all the 
> desks, chairs, computers, electrical cords, cubicle walls, etc., that are in 
> an office space.   
>   
>   
>   
>   
>   
>   
>   
>   
>   
>   
>
>   
>
>   
> Ron Greenman  
> rongreen...@gmail.com (mailto:rongreen...@gmail.com)
>   
>  253.576.9700
>   
>
>   
> The Universe is monstrously indifferent to the presence of man. -Werner 
> Herzog, screenwriter, film director, author, actor and opera director   
> (1942-)
>   
>   
>   
>   
> On Thu, Oct 25, 2018 at 6:14 AM Steve Leyton   (mailto:st...@protectiondesign.com)>  wrote:
>   
> >   
> >   
> > More than half our work is with educational and institutional occupancies 
> > in California, where code amendments and interpretations always lean to the 
> > restrictive side of center.We have always protected weight and 
> > wrestling and yoga and fitness and community rooms as Light Hazard
> > without much push back from our state jurisdictional agencies..
> >   
> >
> >   
> >
> >   
> > Steve Leyton 
> >
> >   
> > (Sent from my phone; please excuse typos and voice text corruptions.)
> >   
> >
> > 
> >
> >   
> >
> >   
> >  Original message 
> >   
> > From: Joe Burtell  mailto:j...@burtellfire.com)>
> >   
> > Date: 10/25/18 4:35 AM (GMT-08:00)
> >   
> > To:  sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org 
> > (mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org)
> >   
> > Subject: High School Weight Room
> >   
> >
> >   
> >   
> >   
> > Does anyone have any information supporting high school wrestling, fitness, 
> > and weight rooms being OH2 due to the rubber floors or foam mats? It seems 
> > overkill to me but new information is always coming out.
> >   
> >   
> >   
> >   
> >   
> >   
> >   
> >   
> >   
> >   
> >   
> >   
> >   
> >   
> >   
> >   
> >   
> >   
> >   
> >   
> >
> > Best regards,
> >
> >   
> >
> > Joe Burtell, SET, CFPS
> >
> >   
> >
> >   
> >
> >   
> >
> >
> >
> >   
> >
> > Phone | Fax | Mobile| Text   406-545-0784 (tel:++1-406-545-0784)
> >
> >
> >   
> >
> > 116 N. 11th Street | Billings, MT 59101
> >
> >   
> >
> > Email:   j...@burtellfire.com (mailto:j...@burtellfire.com)
> >
> >   
> >
> > Web Site:   http://www.burtellfire.com (http://www.burtellfire.com/)
> >
> >   
> >
> > “The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low 
> > price is forgotten.”
> >   
> >
> >   
> >
> >  NOTICE:The information contained in this e-mail transmission is 
> > intended only for use of the individual or entity named above.This 
> > e-mail transmission, and any documents, files, previous e-mail 
> > transmissions or other information attached to it, may contain confidential 
> > information that is legally privileged.If you are not the intended 
> > recipient of this e-mail transmission, or the employee or agent responsible 
> > for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that 
> > any disclosure, dissemination, distribution, copying or other use of this 
> > transmission or any of the information contained in or attached to this 
> > e-mail is strictly prohibited.If you have received this e-mail 
> > transmission in error, please immediately notify us by return e-mail 
> > transmission and destroy the original e-mail transmission as well as its 
> > attachments without reading or saving it in any manner. Thank you.
> >
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Re: High School Weight Room

[Ron Greenman]

I wonder if the fuel load from those rubber/plasticine mats is greater than
that of the carpeting and furnishings in an office space. Seems like it
might be more than just the synthetic carpeting, but the gym is devoid of
all the desks, chairs, computers, electrical cords, cubicle walls, etc.,
that are in an office space.


Ron Greenman
rongreen...@gmail.com

253.576.9700

The Universe is monstrously indifferent to the presence of man. -Werner
Herzog, screenwriter, film director, author, actor and opera
director (1942-)


On Thu, Oct 25, 2018 at 6:14 AM Steve Leyton 
wrote:

> More than half our work is with educational and institutional occupancies
> in California, where code amendments and interpretations always lean to the
> restrictive side of center.  We have always protected weight and wrestling
> and yoga and fitness and community rooms as Light Hazard  without much push
> back from our state jurisdictional agencies..
>
>
> Steve Leyton
>
> (Sent from my phone; please excuse typos and voice text corruptions.)
>
>
>
>  Original message 
> From: Joe Burtell 
> Date: 10/25/18 4:35 AM (GMT-08:00)
> To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
> Subject: High School Weight Room
>
> Does anyone have any information supporting high school wrestling,
> fitness, and weight rooms being OH2 due to the rubber floors or foam mats?
> It seems overkill to me but new information is always coming out.
>
> Best regards,
>
> *Joe Burtell, SET, CFPS*
>
>
>
> [image: Burtell Fire_Small]
>
> Phone | Fax | Mobile| Text *406-545-0784 <++1-406-545-0784>*
>
> 116 N. 11th Street | Billings, MT 59101
>
> Email: j...@burtellfire.com
>
> Web Site: http://www.burtellfire.com
>
> *“**The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of
> low price is forgotten.**”*
>
> *NOTICE:*  The information contained in this e-mail transmission is
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> is legally privileged.  If you are not the intended recipient of this
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Re: High School Weight Room

[Steve Leyton]

More than half our work is with educational and institutional occupancies in 
California, where code amendments and interpretations always lean to the 
restrictive side of center.  We have always protected weight and wrestling and 
yoga and fitness and community rooms as Light Hazard  without much push back 
from our state jurisdictional agencies..


Steve Leyton

(Sent from my phone; please excuse typos and voice text corruptions.)



 Original message 
From: Joe Burtell 
Date: 10/25/18 4:35 AM (GMT-08:00)
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Subject: High School Weight Room

Does anyone have any information supporting high school wrestling, fitness, and 
weight rooms being OH2 due to the rubber floors or foam mats? It seems overkill 
to me but new information is always coming out.

Best regards,

Joe Burtell, SET, CFPS



[Burtell Fire_Small]

Phone | Fax | Mobile| Text 406-545-0784

116 N. 11th Street | Billings, MT 59101

Email: j...@burtellfire.com

Web Site: http://www.burtellfire.com

“The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price 
is forgotten.”

NOTICE:  The information contained in this e-mail transmission is intended only 
for use of the individual or entity named above.  This e-mail transmission, and 
any documents, files, previous e-mail transmissions or other information 
attached to it, may contain confidential information that is legally 
privileged.  If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail transmission, 
or the employee or agent responsible for delivering it to the intended 
recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, dissemination, 
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information contained in or attached to this e-mail is strictly prohibited.  If 
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us by return e-mail transmission and destroy the original e-mail transmission 
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you.
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