Re: [Sursound] BBC Radio Three Surround Streaming Trial (15. to 31. March)
48 kHz is pretty well the international standard sample rate for broadcast organisation and has been since they started upgrading from the 32kHz used (by the Beeb) for distributing audio to FM transmitters back in the late 60's. Dave On 19 March 2014 16:47, Aaron Heller hel...@ai.sri.com wrote: I downloaded the MPD file on the FAQ page with wget http://rdmedia.bbc.co.uk/dash/ondemand/channel_test/1/5.mpd If I'm reading it correctly, the channel announcements are 320 kbits/sec, 48k sample rate. Aaron On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 1:01 AM, Kees de Visser k...@galaxyclassics.com wrote: On 19 Mar 2014, at 07:33, David Pickett wrote: I suspect that most of the problems last night were at the originating end, though there were cases when there were beats missing as the stream caught up, which seemed more likely to be delays in the Internet. from the BBC blog: 21. Rupert Brun, 18TH MARCH 2014 - 22:20 I am sorry we lost the stream before the end of the concert this evening, this was due to a problem with the internet connection to the server at the Southbank. What would the bitrate be ? I'm also curious about the delay. Has anyone been able to compare the streamed audio to fast radio ? Kees de Visser ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20140319/cac673b8/attachment.html ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound -- As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University. These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University Dave Malham Honorary Fellow, Department of Music The University of York York YO10 5DD UK 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio' -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20140330/f4581a98/attachment.html ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] BBC Radio Three Surround Streaming Trial (15. to 31. March)
Dave Malham wrote: 48 kHz is pretty well the international standard sample rate for broadcast organisation and has been since they started upgrading from the 32kHz used (by the Beeb) for distributing audio to FM transmitters back in the late 60's. Dave True I expect, but for some reason the normal 320kbit aac R3 web stream is 44.1k. ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] BBC Radio Three Surround Streaming Trial (15. to 31. March)
Am 30.03.14 19:31, schrieb Sampo Syreeni: ...the sample clock was locked to twice the horizontal scan rate of 15625Hz, i.e. 31.25kHz. Wasn't that the rate used for PCM audio in Hi8 video recorders? Ralf -- Ralf R. Radermacher - Köln/Cologne, Germany Blog : http://the-real-fotoralf.blogspot.com Audio : http://aporee.org/maps/projects/fotoralf Web : http://www.fotoralf.de ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] BBC Radio Three Surround Streaming Trial (15. to 31. March)
According to Rupert Brun, Head of Technology for BBC Radio, the rate used for the 4.0 streaming frm the South Bank was 48kHz. What I dont like is that one can record the stream at 44.1kHz and the sample rate conversion appears to be dont in Windows. Is there a means of actually showing the sampling rate of audio data coming in from the internet? It must be encoded in some way that this information is passed along with it, otherwise there would be a pitch change shortly followed by a buffer overflow when trying to record at 48k stream at 44.1k! Anybody know how to get access to streaming metadata? David At 17:37 30-03-14, Andy Furniss wrote: Dave Malham wrote: 48 kHz is pretty well the international standard sample rate for broadcast organisation and has been since they started upgrading from the 32kHz used (by the Beeb) for distributing audio to FM transmitters back in the late 60's. Dave True I expect, but for some reason the normal 320kbit aac R3 web stream is 44.1k. ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] BBC Radio Three Surround Streaming Trial (15. to 31. March)
Am 30.03.14 20:48, schrieb David Pickett: Anybody know how to get access to streaming metadata? Play it back in VLC and display the stream parameters. Ralf -- Ralf R. Radermacher - Köln/Cologne, Germany Blog : http://the-real-fotoralf.blogspot.com Audio : http://aporee.org/maps/projects/fotoralf Web : http://www.fotoralf.de ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] BBC Radio Three Surround Streaming Trial (15. to 31. March)
On 2014-03-30, Ralf R Radermacher wrote: ...the sample clock was locked to twice the horizontal scan rate of 15625Hz, i.e. 31.25kHz. Wasn't that the rate used for PCM audio in Hi8 video recorders? Apparently so, and for the same precise reason. That applies to Hi8 derived from PAL, and with PCM -- PCM sound was a later addition to the standard which was originally fully analog. For Hi8 over NTSC the corresponding frequency is 31.46853kHz. That comes from the revised 59.94Hz field rate adopted in the color transition, divided by 525 scanlines per field. -- Sampo Syreeni, aka decoy - de...@iki.fi, http://decoy.iki.fi/front +358-40-3255353, 025E D175 ABE5 027C 9494 EEB0 E090 8BA9 0509 85C2 ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] BBC Radio Three Surround Streaming Trial (15. to 31. March)
--On 19 March 2014 18:47 +0100 David Pickett d...@fugato.com wrote: A bit scary that, as Paul said, Microsoft employ SRC automatically if you get it wrong... Actually, after thinking about this, I suspect it's unavoidable in this situation, even if the data rates are matched. Where's the master clock? My interface (E-MU 1616m) can be clocked from a digital input (SPDIF or ADAT), or it can be internally clocked. If I am playing back files, the interface provides the clock for the computer. But if the data is coming from the Internet, that data cannot but be separately clocked, but it can't provide the master clock for the interface - it just hasn't the stability, and buffering will get in the way and so on. My present method of recording goes through the interface, so it seems to me that resampling is unavoidable - the only way to get around that would be to have a method of recording the stream from the Internet directly without playing it out to the interface. Maybe TotalRecorder taps in to the audio stream before the SRC - I must look into that. Or maybe I just don't understand digital audio properly, or at least the Internet aspect of it. Oh, and I understand that the current Windows SRC is pretty good, actually. Paul -- Paul Hodges ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] BBC Radio Three Surround Streaming Trial (15. to 31. March)
At 11:17 20-03-14, Paul Hodges wrote: I understand that the current Windows SRC is pretty good, actually. I probably know less about this than you do. But do you mean Windows 8? Windows 7, which I am using appear to have a problem, but with a secret fix that I havent tried yet: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2653312 http://www.indexcom.com/tech/WindowsAudioSRC/ The biggest problem is in knowing what actually goes on behind the scenes. I have recorded the broadcasts with Samplitude set to 48k. I am using ASIO, so maybe the problem DOESNT exist. My interface is RME UFX (in Loopback Mode) and it claims that it is running under internal sync, from which I understand Samplitude to be the master clock. As Samplitude uses input buffering, would this not take care of potential glitches due to the asynchronous nature of the stream? RME doesnt do any D/A until I listen to it, and no errors were reported by the software. But I am guessing... David --On 19 March 2014 18:47 +0100 David Pickett d...@fugato.com wrote: A bit scary that, as Paul said, Microsoft employ SRC automatically if you get it wrong... Actually, after thinking about this, I suspect it's unavoidable in this situation, even if the data rates are matched. Where's the master clock? My interface (E-MU 1616m) can be clocked from a digital input (SPDIF or ADAT), or it can be internally clocked. If I am playing back files, the interface provides the clock for the computer. But if the data is coming from the Internet, that data cannot but be separately clocked, but it can't provide the master clock for the interface - it just hasn't the stability, and buffering will get in the way and so on. My present method of recording goes through the interface, so it seems to me that resampling is unavoidable - the only way to get around that would be to have a method of recording the stream from the Internet directly without playing it out to the interface. Maybe TotalRecorder taps in to the audio stream before the SRC - I must look into that. Or maybe I just don't understand digital audio properly, or at least the Internet aspect of it. Oh, and I understand that the current Windows SRC is pretty good, actually. Paul -- Paul Hodges ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] BBC Radio Three Surround Streaming Trial (15. to 31. March)
On Thu, Mar 20, 2014 at 10:17:30AM +, Paul Hodges wrote: But if the data is coming from the Internet, that data cannot but be separately clocked, but it can't provide the master clock for the interface - it just hasn't the stability, and buffering will get in the way and so on. Not really. For the same reasons it would be impossible to resample, since this requires an accurate ans stable (i.e. at most changing very slowly) estimate of the ratio. It *is* possible to extract a stable clock from the jittery timing of the internet data (basically a SW DLL with some extensions to allow for missing packets etc.). The real problem is that most sound cards don't provide any means to use this information - they only accept a physical external clock signal. There are some exceptions, e.g. some RME cards have a software interface that allows to change the master clock frequency (a multiple of the sample rate) in very small steps. Using this the SW can sync the card to the data instead of resampling it. Ciao, -- FA A world of exhaustive, reliable metadata would be an utopia. It's also a pipe-dream, founded on self-delusion, nerd hubris and hysterically inflated market opportunities. (Cory Doctorow) ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] BBC Radio Three Surround Streaming Trial (15. to 31. March)
--On 20 March 2014 12:02 +0100 David Pickett d...@fugato.com wrote: I understand that the current Windows SRC is pretty good, actually. I probably know less about this than you do. But do you mean Windows 8? Windows 7, which I am using appear to have a problem, but with a secret fix that I havent tried yet: I knew about that problem, which was gross and inexcusable, and applied the fix, which is fine. But now I'm running Windows 8.1 in any case. The biggest problem is in knowing what actually goes on behind the scenes. I have recorded the broadcasts with Samplitude set to 48k. I am using ASIO, so maybe the problem DOESNT exist. But it's coming out of the browser and into the interface via the MS audio stack; you're only using ASIO for recording the data coming from the interface. My interface is RME UFX (in Loopback Mode) and it claims that it is running under internal sync, from which I understand Samplitude to be the master clock. I presume the TotalMix architecture is fairly similar to the PatchMix I'm using. In the E-MU internal sync means internal to the interface, which is providing the master clock to the software. I don't think the software ever provides the master clock. Paul -- Paul Hodges ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] BBC Radio Three Surround Streaming Trial (15. to 31. March)
--On 20 March 2014 11:14 + Andy Furniss adf.li...@gmail.com wrote: I think it's just like playing any compressed audio file. But it isn't, because a slight mismatch in clock speeds would mean that the playback could run ahead and eventually run out of buffered samples to play. Of course, this issue is the same for any Internet audio, and always has been. Paul -- Paul Hodges ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] BBC Radio Three Surround Streaming Trial (15. to 31. March)
Paul Hodges wrote: --On 20 March 2014 11:14 + Andy Furniss adf.li...@gmail.com wrote: I think it's just like playing any compressed audio file. But it isn't, because a slight mismatch in clock speeds would mean that the playback could run ahead and eventually run out of buffered samples to play. Of course, this issue is the same for any Internet audio, and always has been. Yea, I did also mention buffering, just that I assume the buffer is normally big enough so that it doesn't run out/overflow in a reasonable time. I guess broadcast is in the same situation, mp2/aac/ac3 are all ahead by 600 ms in transport streams, though I don't know why, it could be to give some leeway. Transport streams do have extra clock timestamps, but I wonder if TVs/receivers that have internal dacs + spdif + hdmi out really can/do slave the clocks that control them to the clock reference in the stream or whether they rely on buffering to help. Looking at a sample of R3 AAC downloaded to disk I see it has presentation time stamps - I am not sure how (or if) players handle the soundcard clock being at a different rate to the master clock. The open source video players I use base their a/v sync on sound, so will adjust video to fit the sound card clock. There are exeptions, XBMC does have an option to sync to video and resample sound to fit. ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] BBC Radio Three Surround Streaming Trial (15. to 31. March)
--On 20 March 2014 15:41 + Andy Furniss adf.li...@gmail.com wrote: Yea, I did also mention buffering, just that I assume the buffer is normally big enough so that it doesn't run out/overflow in a reasonable time. This is not the kind of programming I have ever done, and it makes me uncomfortable - not that I can see any good alternative. Paul -- Paul Hodges ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] BBC Radio Three Surround Streaming Trial (15. to 31. March)
At 23:33 18-03-14, Paul Hodges wrote: --On 18 March 2014 23:18 +0100 David Pickett d...@fugato.com wrote: BBC server went down several times this evening. What I don't understand is why things like that go down so easily; it may be hard to get a computer system running, but if it's done even reasonably right, once you succeed it should just keep running until a real change is made. That agrees with my experience, too. One of the concomitant frustrations of these experiments is not atually knowing whether the loss of signal is due to the originating server or something along the way between there and here! It stopped working altogether towards the end of the concert. Continually pressing CTL-F5 and then attmepting to reconnect is not fun! I suspect that most of the problems last night were at the originating end, though there were cases when there were beats missing as the stream caught up, which seemed more likely to be delays in the Internet. David ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] BBC Radio Three Surround Streaming Trial (15. to 31. March)
On 19 Mar 2014, at 07:33, David Pickett wrote: I suspect that most of the problems last night were at the originating end, though there were cases when there were beats missing as the stream caught up, which seemed more likely to be delays in the Internet. from the BBC blog: 21. Rupert Brun, 18TH MARCH 2014 - 22:20 I am sorry we lost the stream before the end of the concert this evening, this was due to a problem with the internet connection to the server at the Southbank. What would the bitrate be ? I'm also curious about the delay. Has anyone been able to compare the streamed audio to fast radio ? Kees de Visser ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] BBC Radio Three Surround Streaming Trial (15. to 31. March)
At 17:47 19-03-14, Aaron Heller wrote: I downloaded the MPD file on the FAQ page with wget http://rdmedia.bbc.co.uk/dash/ondemand/channel_test/1/5.mpd It asked me what you wanted to do with it automatically! Just selected download. If I'm reading it correctly, the channel announcements are 320 kbits/sec, 48k sample rate. 48k is what the Head of Technology for BBC Radio told me too. I changed to that for last night. A bit scary that, as Paul said, Microsoft employ SRC automatically if you get it wrong... I heard from one of the engineers responsible that they have been working on the server today and hope to have a more robust connection tonight. The engineers update and monitor their Twitter account during the concert, and appreciate comments: #BBCR3surround David Aaron On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 1:01 AM, Kees de Visser k...@galaxyclassics.comwrote: On 19 Mar 2014, at 07:33, David Pickett wrote: I suspect that most of the problems last night were at the originating end, though there were cases when there were beats missing as the stream caught up, which seemed more likely to be delays in the Internet. from the BBC blog: 21. Rupert Brun, 18TH MARCH 2014 - 22:20 I am sorry we lost the stream before the end of the concert this evening, this was due to a problem with the internet connection to the server at the Southbank. What would the bitrate be ? I'm also curious about the delay. Has anyone been able to compare the streamed audio to fast radio ? Kees de Visser ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20140319/cac673b8/attachment.html ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] BBC Radio Three Surround Streaming Trial (15. to 31. March)
Tonight's effort a bit of a dog's breakfast with glitches, drop-outs and confusion over the recorded link pieces in the interval. However, when it was working, it was pretty damned impressive. They seem to have tweaked the surrounds a bit, so no need to up the gain any more. Together with some really nice playing (and bar someone's personal alarm going off a couple of minutes into the Tod und Verklärung, necessitating a restart) it was rather an encouraging evening: once the internet connection is sorted out, this would appear to be a viable approach to broadcasting at least some form of surround home systems, just using a browser and a sound-card. I have bits of it recorded, if anyone wants a listen. Mind you, when I say bits, I mean bits. Several rather large gaps in transmission means that it's by no means a complete performance. Off list to me if you want, and I'll prepare a file. It'll be a 48/24 wavex of the uninterrupted bit of the Strauss. Cheers, John On 16 Mar 2014, at 17:28, David Pickett d...@fugato.com wrote: I just stumbled on this: http://rdmedia.bbc.co.uk/radio3/faq.html I have an appropriate soundcard; but am not sure I want to install Google Chrome... (Bummer that it doesnt work on Firefox!) has anyone David ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] BBC Radio Three Surround Streaming Trial (15. to 31. March)
Got back in time to grab the last half-hour or so if the Dvorak, and like others, I found I needed to bring up the surround levels to get an idea of what was on offer. The quality was pretty good, though; certainly better than most of the audio streaming services I've listened to. I can record the four channels of audio easily, thanks to the Metric Halo software, so will attempt to archive a few of the performances this week, work permitting. Regards, John ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] BBC Radio Three Surround Streaming Trial (15. to 31. March)
BBC server went down several times this evening. But the rebuilt RFH organ sounded much improved, and from time to time I could imagine I was there. Orchestra and piano tomorrow evening. David ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] BBC Radio Three Surround Streaming Trial (15. to 31. March)
--On 18 March 2014 23:18 +0100 David Pickett d...@fugato.com wrote: BBC server went down several times this evening. :-( And I specifically wanted /that/ concert. I had a dinner party, so I started recording and left it - I haven't checked, but presumably that means I have nothing after the first break. But there were several glitches in the few minutes I heard - hopefully symptomatic of their particular problems rather than a weakness of the technique. What I don't understand is why things like that go down so easily; it may be hard to get a computer system running, but if it's done even reasonably right, once you succeed it should just keep running until a real change is made. Paul (whose job is keeping computers running) -- Paul Hodges ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] BBC Radio Three Surround Streaming Trial (15. to 31. March)
I do neto succeed in listening to this in Stockholm Sweden, any one succeeding outside of UK? Bo-Erik ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] BBC Radio Three Surround Streaming Trial (15. to 31. March)
--On 17 March 2014 00:16 + Richard Dobson richarddob...@blueyonder.co.uk wrote: It appears to be under the Live in Concert title. So the 19:30 concerts from the South Bank? That makes some sense - it also means that maybe tomorrow's reopening of the restored organ may be in surround (note to self: check multi-channel recording setup is OK). As an aside, I'm amused to see that the web page listing next week's concert on the RFH organ (another must-hear) is headed by a picture of the organ in the Albert Hall! Paul -- Paul Hodges ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] BBC Radio Three Surround Streaming Trial (15. to 31. March)
Am 17.03.14 16:25, schrieb Paul Hodges: (note to self: check multi-channel recording setup is OK). Speaking of which: how would one record this? I normally use Audio Hijack Pro for recording web streams but that doesn't work for signals with more than two channels. I'm on a Mac, BTW. Ralf -- Ralf R. Radermacher - Köln/Cologne, Germany Blog : http://the-real-fotoralf.blogspot.com Audio : http://aporee.org/maps/projects/fotoralf Web : http://www.fotoralf.de ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] BBC Radio Three Surround Streaming Trial (15. to 31. March)
--On 17 March 2014 15:25 + Paul Hodges pwh-surro...@cassland.org wrote: As an aside, I'm amused to see that the web page listing next week's concert on the RFH organ (another must-hear) is headed by a picture of the organ in the Albert Hall! Oops on my part, too - not the Albert Hall, but one I can't identify (definitely nothing like the Festival Hall, though). Paul -- Paul Hodges ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] BBC Radio Three Surround Streaming Trial (15. to 31. March)
--On 17 March 2014 16:32 +0100 Ralf R Radermacher fotor...@gmx.de wrote: Speaking of which: how would one record this? I normally use Audio Hijack Pro for recording web streams but that doesn't work for signals with more than two channels. I'm on a Mac, BTW. I'm using a PC, so I can't comment on the Mac approach; and my setup is very specific to my interface, which is an E-MU 1616m. I have set up Windows sound to use the multichannel output mode of the E-MU interface ( which is done using the sound applet in the control panel). In PatchMix (the control program for the E-MU) I pick out the front and rear channels of the 5.1 that is being sent to the interface for playing, and route them to four inputs of the alternate ASIO driver (as well as to the speakers). These ASIO inputs I can then pick up with any handy audio program - Reaper, WaveLab, or my favourite for doing this: AudioMulch. Paul -- Paul Hodges ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] BBC Radio Three Surround Streaming Trial (15. to 31. March)
Soundflower, perhaps? On 17 March 2014 15:32, Ralf R Radermacher fotor...@gmx.de wrote: Am 17.03.14 16:25, schrieb Paul Hodges: (note to self: check multi-channel recording setup is OK). Speaking of which: how would one record this? I normally use Audio Hijack Pro for recording web streams but that doesn't work for signals with more than two channels. I'm on a Mac, BTW. Ralf -- Ralf R. Radermacher - Köln/Cologne, Germany Blog : http://the-real-fotoralf.blogspot.com Audio : http://aporee.org/maps/projects/fotoralf Web : http://www.fotoralf.de ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound -- As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University. These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University Dave Malham Honorary Fellow, Department of Music The University of York York YO10 5DD UK 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio' -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20140317/ea5d18f9/attachment.html ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] BBC Radio Three Surround Streaming Trial (15. to 31. March)
I use very reliably jackosx p Le 17 mars 2014 à 16:59, Dave Malham dave.mal...@york.ac.uk a écrit : Soundflower, perhaps? On 17 March 2014 15:32, Ralf R Radermacher fotor...@gmx.de wrote: Am 17.03.14 16:25, schrieb Paul Hodges: (note to self: check multi-channel recording setup is OK). Speaking of which: how would one record this? I normally use Audio Hijack Pro for recording web streams but that doesn't work for signals with more than two channels. I'm on a Mac, BTW. Ralf -- Ralf R. Radermacher - Köln/Cologne, Germany Blog : http://the-real-fotoralf.blogspot.com Audio : http://aporee.org/maps/projects/fotoralf Web : http://www.fotoralf.de ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound -- As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University. These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University Dave Malham Honorary Fellow, Department of Music The University of York York YO10 5DD UK 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio' -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20140317/ea5d18f9/attachment.html ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] BBC Radio Three Surround Streaming Trial (15. to 31.March)
Right, i'm slowly pulling my hair here. Is anybody having a problem in hearing the surround rear on the chan id? Although the computer (Win XP) connected to the internet has an M-Audio 24/96 card, which is 2 in/2 out, one of the drivers that comes with it is a multi chan driver. So far i've been able to hear all but the rear surroun channel and i can't figure out why. I've set windows to use the multi driver, and using audiomulch set to record 6 channels, i still cant hear the rear surround channel Anyone having problems? --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20140317/e59f55aa/attachment.html ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] BBC Radio Three Surround Streaming Trial (15. to 31.March)
I have a GigaPort AG connected by USB to my MacBook Pro and it works correctly with Chrome Version 33.0.1750.152 I used Audio MIDI Setup (in /Applications/Utilites) and selected Multichannel/5.1 Surround for the speaker configuration of the GigaPort device. Aaron Heller (hel...@ai.sri.com) Menlo Park, CA US -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20140317/441ef5d6/attachment.html ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] BBC Radio Three Surround Streaming Trial (15. to 31.March)
Having tried earlier to get this to work -- unsuccessfully because I was messing with the Realtek HD Audio Manager which turend out to be irrelevant -- I decided to have another go at fooled around with my PC and, as is often the case, it suddenly started doing what I wanted (perseverance is in my experience the only way to achieve anything with computers...). I am running Windows 7 with an RME UFX connected to the Firewire port. This appears as Speakers/RME Fireface UFX in the windows Control_Panel/Sound/Playback panel. I set this as the default and clicked on Configure, selected the first of the two 5.1 Surround options (what the second one is for, I have no idea), and told it that I dont have a bass or centre speaker. This provides tones that can be used to determine the routing is correct. Then I installed Chrome (having previously set a System Restore Point), navigated to http://rdmedia.bbc.co.uk/radio3/faq.html and the lady's voice came over where it should do! (A thoughtful touch that she repeats the test several times!) The go to http://rdmedia.bbc.co.uk/radio3/index.html and click on the play button, and four channels of Brahms Tragic Overture appeared. Amazing! Playback Channels on the RME are 1 Left front 2 Right front 3 Center 4 Bass (LFE) 5 Left rear 6 right rear Using the Loopback function of Totalmix I have routed it to Samplitude. Ready for Rachmaninov PC.3. So far it sounds remarkably good. David ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] BBC Radio Three Surround Streaming Trial (15. to 31.March)
I installed Chrome (having previously set a System Restore Point), You are such a drama queen :) I'm glad you got it working though - Ill have to try this out ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound -- 07580951119 augustine.leudar.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20140317/e4f98ffd/attachment.html ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] BBC Radio Three Surround Streaming Trial (15. to 31.March)
--On 17 March 2014 20:52 +0100 David Pickett d...@fugato.com wrote: The go to http://rdmedia.bbc.co.uk/radio3/index.html and click on the play button, and four channels of Brahms Tragic Overture appeared. Followed by John Lill playing Rach 3 at the age of 70 - Magnificent! But as for the surround, well huh! The usual uncorrelated mish-mash in the rear channels, signifying nothing. Turning on the rear speakers did push the stereo image back from the front speakers just a bit. This was most convincing with the rear channels boosted by 6dB. Then I tried sitting sideways, facing the left; I should still have felt the image to be over to my right, but I got bits and pieces flying all over the place. When the applause started, I tried turning off both right speakers to see if any kind of image was formed by the left channels - but no, the applause was tied almost solidly to the rear speaker with no sense of space. But I will record the organ recitals (presuming they are included in the test broadcasts), and examine them at leisure. Paul -- Paul Hodges ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] BBC Radio Three Surround Streaming Trial (15. to 31.March)
At 21:07 17-03-14, Augustine Leudar wrote: I installed Chrome (having previously set a System Restore Point), You are such a drama queen :) I'm glad you got it working though - Ill have to try this out No. I have learned not to trust dwnloaded software, after some bad experiences! :-) A couple of inexplicable drop outs lasting several seconds during the Rachmaninov, but otherwise excellent sound. The trouble is that the RFH is not perhaps the best hall to provide exciting suround sound. But hearing the audience all around is a great bonus. The interval music is in stereo, which is a bit of a let down... Nasty click just then! Still not sure how to find out exactly what is going to be available during this period. Has anyone founda list? David ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] BBC Radio Three Surround Streaming Trial (15. to 31.March)
On 17 Mar 2014, at 21:46, Paul Hodges wrote: But as for the surround, well huh! The usual uncorrelated mish-mash in the rear channels, signifying nothing. Turning on the rear speakers did push the stereo image back from the front speakers just a bit. That's hardly a surprise when reading the BBC blog: http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/radio3/posts/Radio-3-in-40 Our approach, to put it very simply, is to enhance the live stereo mix with some hall ambience in the rear loudspeakers. We hope you enjoy the experience. Kees de Visser ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] BBC Radio Three Surround Streaming Trial (15. to 31.March)
--On 17 March 2014 21:19 + Paul Hodges pwh-surro...@cassland.org wrote: the audience coughing in the gaps in the Brahms sounds from in front. Dvorak, of course - a senior moment while typing too fast. Paul -- Paul Hodges ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] BBC Radio Three Surround Streaming Trial (15. to 31. March)
Good find ! Chrome isn't so bad actually - I use it firefox and opera - chrome is by far the fastest to load and less memory hungry than firefox though I too prefer firefox On 16 March 2014 17:28, David Pickett d...@fugato.com wrote: I just stumbled on this: http://rdmedia.bbc.co.uk/radio3/faq.html I have an appropriate soundcard; but am not sure I want to install Google Chrome... (Bummer that it doesnt work on Firefox!) has anyone David ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound -- 07580951119 augustine.leudar.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20140316/17192ae2/attachment.html ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] BBC Radio Three Surround Streaming Trial (15. to 31. March)
At 18:55 16-03-14, Augustine Leudar wrote: Good find ! Chrome isn't so bad actually - I use it firefox and opera - chrome is by far the fastest to load and less memory hungry than firefox though I too prefer firefox Ok, if I take a chance oin Chrome not taking over my machine, then the problem is that I cant figure out how to route this directly through my RME UFX, which is the normal path to my surround set up. Although my motherboard has outlets for 7.1, the Windows sound applet doesnt seem to provide for surround unless one has something plugged into the (nasty) phono sockets on the back, and that would mean a major rewire among all the fluff balls! (I can send PC stereo directly to any pair of RME playback channels through the Firewire connection.) Also, I followed the instructions on the BBC website to look at the Radio 3 schedule for information about what will be in surround, and there appeared to be nothing against the Mahler III this afternoon, which WAS in surround! A further question is whether this feed is only available in the UK, as are many of the podcasts. BBC Radio's Head of Technology, Rupert Brum, has been tweeting about this @HoT4Radio. David ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] BBC Radio Three Surround Streaming Trial (15. to 31. March)
There not streaming at the moment so I cant test it - I would guess that either the browser automatically routes the 4 channels to 1,2,3,4 on the soundcard or there is some way of telling it which outputs to route the 4 channels to. I have an RME too , As long as the RME is set as the default soundcard should be fine. On 16 March 2014 18:13, David Pickett d...@fugato.com wrote: At 18:55 16-03-14, Augustine Leudar wrote: Good find ! Chrome isn't so bad actually - I use it firefox and opera - chrome is by far the fastest to load and less memory hungry than firefox though I too prefer firefox Ok, if I take a chance oin Chrome not taking over my machine, then the problem is that I cant figure out how to route this directly through my RME UFX, which is the normal path to my surround set up. Although my motherboard has outlets for 7.1, the Windows sound applet doesnt seem to provide for surround unless one has something plugged into the (nasty) phono sockets on the back, and that would mean a major rewire among all the fluff balls! (I can send PC stereo directly to any pair of RME playback channels through the Firewire connection.) Also, I followed the instructions on the BBC website to look at the Radio 3 schedule for information about what will be in surround, and there appeared to be nothing against the Mahler III this afternoon, which WAS in surround! A further question is whether this feed is only available in the UK, as are many of the podcasts. BBC Radio's Head of Technology, Rupert Brum, has been tweeting about this @HoT4Radio. David ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound -- 07580951119 augustine.leudar.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20140316/30deed3b/attachment.html ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] BBC Radio Three Surround Streaming Trial (15. to 31. March)
right mouse button over volume control in bottom right hand corner playack devices click RME set default restart browser/applet On 16 March 2014 18:25, Augustine Leudar augustineleu...@gmail.com wrote: There not streaming at the moment so I cant test it - I would guess that either the browser automatically routes the 4 channels to 1,2,3,4 on the soundcard or there is some way of telling it which outputs to route the 4 channels to. I have an RME too , As long as the RME is set as the default soundcard should be fine. On 16 March 2014 18:13, David Pickett d...@fugato.com wrote: At 18:55 16-03-14, Augustine Leudar wrote: Good find ! Chrome isn't so bad actually - I use it firefox and opera - chrome is by far the fastest to load and less memory hungry than firefox though I too prefer firefox Ok, if I take a chance oin Chrome not taking over my machine, then the problem is that I cant figure out how to route this directly through my RME UFX, which is the normal path to my surround set up. Although my motherboard has outlets for 7.1, the Windows sound applet doesnt seem to provide for surround unless one has something plugged into the (nasty) phono sockets on the back, and that would mean a major rewire among all the fluff balls! (I can send PC stereo directly to any pair of RME playback channels through the Firewire connection.) Also, I followed the instructions on the BBC website to look at the Radio 3 schedule for information about what will be in surround, and there appeared to be nothing against the Mahler III this afternoon, which WAS in surround! A further question is whether this feed is only available in the UK, as are many of the podcasts. BBC Radio's Head of Technology, Rupert Brum, has been tweeting about this @HoT4Radio. David ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound -- 07580951119 augustine.leudar.com -- 07580951119 augustine.leudar.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20140316/7cf7cb3a/attachment.html ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] BBC Radio Three Surround Streaming Trial (15. to 31. March)
At 19:30 16-03-14, Augustine Leudar wrote: right mouse button over volume control in bottom right hand corner playack devices click RME set default restart browser/applet On that panel each of the pairs of RME output is presented separately... (I'll look for the documentation on the GA-H67A-UD3H-B3 board and Realtek audio.) There not streaming at the moment so I cant test it - There is a permanent player halfway down this page: http://rdmedia.bbc.co.uk/radio3/faq.html David ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] BBC Radio Three Surround Streaming Trial (15. to 31. March)
Augustine Leudar augustineleu...@gmail.com a écrit : There not streaming at the moment so I cant test it - I would guess that either the browser automatically routes the 4 channels to 1,2,3,4 on the soundcard or there is some way of telling it which outputs to route the 4 channels to. I have an RME too , As long as the RME is set as the default soundcard should be fine. Augustine, you can test it here: http://rdmedia.bbc.co.uk/radio3/faq.html On my Ubuntu laptop, Chromium is using Pulseaudio with a jackd sink, configured for 7.1. For some reason, the rear-left and rear-front channels also output the front-left and front-right channels. It's almost working... -- Marc On 16 March 2014 18:13, David Pickett d...@fugato.com wrote: At 18:55 16-03-14, Augustine Leudar wrote: Good find ! Chrome isn't so bad actually - I use it firefox and opera - chrome is by far the fastest to load and less memory hungry than firefox though I too prefer firefox Ok, if I take a chance oin Chrome not taking over my machine, then the problem is that I cant figure out how to route this directly through my RME UFX, which is the normal path to my surround set up. Although my motherboard has outlets for 7.1, the Windows sound applet doesnt seem to provide for surround unless one has something plugged into the (nasty) phono sockets on the back, and that would mean a major rewire among all the fluff balls! (I can send PC stereo directly to any pair of RME playback channels through the Firewire connection.) Also, I followed the instructions on the BBC website to look at the Radio 3 schedule for information about what will be in surround, and there appeared to be nothing against the Mahler III this afternoon, which WAS in surround! A further question is whether this feed is only available in the UK, as are many of the podcasts. BBC Radio's Head of Technology, Rupert Brum, has been tweeting about this @HoT4Radio. David ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] BBC Radio Three Surround Streaming Trial (15. to 31. March)
On 16/03/2014 20:36, Marc Lavallée wrote: Augustine Leudar augustineleu...@gmail.com a écrit : There not streaming at the moment so I cant test it - I would guess that either the browser automatically routes the 4 channels to 1,2,3,4 on the soundcard or there is some way of telling it which outputs to route the 4 channels to. I have an RME too , As long as the RME is set as the default soundcard should be fine. Augustine, you can test it here: http://rdmedia.bbc.co.uk/radio3/faq.html On my Ubuntu laptop, Chromium is using Pulseaudio with a jackd sink, configured for 7.1. For some reason, the rear-left and rear-front channels also output the front-left and front-right channels. It's almost working... -- Marc On my Windows XP machine with M-Audio Firewire 410 (m/c interleaved device), it all works as (I think) intended; five output channel idents are provided on the test page (quad + centre), so in terms of quasi 5.1 the rear channels are swapped (left out of ch 4, right out of ch 5). Setting the speaker layout via Control Panel seems not to make any difference, so I have to assume they are sending a generic 5-channel stream, not a specific WAVE_EX layout. So all that should be required to hear it correctly is a multi-channel interleaved device. I have heard (but need confirmation) that at least some RME cards only offer multiple stereo devices - ? Richard Dobson ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] BBC Radio Three Surround Streaming Trial (15. to 31. March)
Augustine Leudar augustineleu...@gmail.com a écrit : not at home now - cant you just swap the leads round on the jack interface ? My mistake was to listen to the outputs labeled rear-left and rear-right; the outputs for the surround channels are labeled side-left and side-right. So, it works on Linux! What's required is Chromium with the FFMpeg extension, Pulseaudio (with the optional jack sink, when using the jackd sound server) and a 5.1 sound module. -- Marc On 16 March 2014 20:36, Marc Lavallée m...@hacklava.net wrote: Augustine Leudar augustineleu...@gmail.com a écrit : There not streaming at the moment so I cant test it - I would guess that either the browser automatically routes the 4 channels to 1,2,3,4 on the soundcard or there is some way of telling it which outputs to route the 4 channels to. I have an RME too , As long as the RME is set as the default soundcard should be fine. Augustine, you can test it here: http://rdmedia.bbc.co.uk/radio3/faq.html On my Ubuntu laptop, Chromium is using Pulseaudio with a jackd sink, configured for 7.1. For some reason, the rear-left and rear-front channels also output the front-left and front-right channels. It's almost working... -- Marc On 16 March 2014 18:13, David Pickett d...@fugato.com wrote: At 18:55 16-03-14, Augustine Leudar wrote: Good find ! Chrome isn't so bad actually - I use it firefox and opera - chrome is by far the fastest to load and less memory hungry than firefox though I too prefer firefox Ok, if I take a chance oin Chrome not taking over my machine, then the problem is that I cant figure out how to route this directly through my RME UFX, which is the normal path to my surround set up. Although my motherboard has outlets for 7.1, the Windows sound applet doesnt seem to provide for surround unless one has something plugged into the (nasty) phono sockets on the back, and that would mean a major rewire among all the fluff balls! (I can send PC stereo directly to any pair of RME playback channels through the Firewire connection.) Also, I followed the instructions on the BBC website to look at the Radio 3 schedule for information about what will be in surround, and there appeared to be nothing against the Mahler III this afternoon, which WAS in surround! A further question is whether this feed is only available in the UK, as are many of the podcasts. BBC Radio's Head of Technology, Rupert Brum, has been tweeting about this @HoT4Radio. David ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
