[biofuels-biz] Re: speedy separation on a large scale
Hi James, we have been using dairy cream separators to continually remove glycerol. There are some problems though if the glycerol gets cool too quickly it clogs up the plates. A simple precipitate trap like the water trap in a fuel line only bigger has given good separation at times. Its just a 4 pipe with the inlet and out let pipes at the top. The inlet goes down a few inches through a mesh screen. The outlet is above the screen. I use a tap at the bottom to remove the gycerol etc. The volume of the pipe is determined by the batch size, leave room for all of the glycerol. In series with the dairy separators this trap helps to overcome clogging. The methanol is added to the pickup after the separators and mixes in the centripital pump. The methoxide is added a little at a time so that the glycerol is produced slowly, over at least 1/2 an hour. Still pretty quick for a batch method. I haven't done much with washing, separation of soapy water and fuel seems to need more speed than we can muster. Regards from Harry --- In biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com, James Slayden [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.wsus.com/ Although I'm sure there are more companies out there. BTW, They're a new partner of the NBB. Gotta get your advertising somehow ;-) James Slayden On Fri, 29 Nov 2002, Tom Branigan wrote: Hello, can anyone give me a rough idea of the types of centrifuges or liquid liquid separation equipment that could be used for the separation of glycerol from biodiesel, and the separation of water from biodiesel. (as in after washing) I have no expertise in this kind of equipment and would appreciate greatly any help on the matter. I am aiming at a plant to produce 15000 litres of biodiesel per week. Tom _ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuels-biz] Conflict-ridden Caspian basin is the world's next Persian Gulf
Interesting to read this four years later. http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/1998 /08/10/MN1650.DTL Perilous Lifeline to West Conflict-ridden Caspian basin is the world's next Persian Gulf Frank Viviano, Chronicle Staff Writer Monday, August 10, 1998 FIRST OF FOUR PARTS Vast oil reserves rivaling the Persian Gulf ring Central Asia's Caspian Sea, a turbulent region bristling with warfare, superpower maneuvering and sudden riches. In a month-long journey of 3,000 miles, 100 interviews and 4,000 photographs, a Chronicle team documented the bonanza -- and the perilous conditions on which America's energy future rests. A Chronicle Special Series Part I: Perilous lifeline to the West http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/1998 /08/10/MN1650.DTL Part II: Caspian ring of fire http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/1998 /08/11/MN46128.DTL Part III: Fuel for discontent http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/1998 /08/12/MN75474.DTL Part IV: Black Gold, Iron Rule http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/1998 /08/13/MN5511.DTL Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuels-biz] Re: Conflict-ridden Caspian basin is the world's next Persian Gulf
I guess that as long as oil exists, political wrangling will partner it as nations/individuals strive to control its supply. There are tighter controls here in the UK over biofuel production than over food production. Personally I would rather risk my engine than my health but I can guess who is influencing the legislation. H --- In biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Interesting to read this four years later. http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi? file=/chronicle/archive/1998 /08/10/MN1650.DTL Perilous Lifeline to West Conflict-ridden Caspian basin is the world's next Persian Gulf Frank Viviano, Chronicle Staff Writer Monday, August 10, 1998 FIRST OF FOUR PARTS Vast oil reserves rivaling the Persian Gulf ring Central Asia's Caspian Sea, a turbulent region bristling with warfare, superpower maneuvering and sudden riches. In a month-long journey of 3,000 miles, 100 interviews and 4,000 photographs, a Chronicle team documented the bonanza -- and the perilous conditions on which America's energy future rests. A Chronicle Special Series Part I: Perilous lifeline to the West http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi? file=/chronicle/archive/1998 /08/10/MN1650.DTL Part II: Caspian ring of fire http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi? file=/chronicle/archive/1998 /08/11/MN46128.DTL Part III: Fuel for discontent http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi? file=/chronicle/archive/1998 /08/12/MN75474.DTL Part IV: Black Gold, Iron Rule http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi? file=/chronicle/archive/1998 /08/13/MN5511.DTL Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] OT: San Diego Mexican Fruit Fly Quarantine Situation
Interesting that they are just burying the infested fruit?? Why not turn it in to ethanol. Truely is a a shame James Slayden BTW murdoch, you have any contacts in the avocado industry?? ;-) On Sat, 7 Dec 2002, murdoch wrote: http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/northcounty/20021205-_1mc5spin.html VALLEY CENTER Organic growers inside the expected quarantine area here will be able to fight the Mexican fruit fly with a new variety of a special insecticide, state officials said yesterday. The news was great relief to organic farmers who didn't know how they would be able to keep their certified-organic status while battling the destructive fly. There's been this fear out there that was not going to happen, but that is really good news, said Jerome Stehly, chairman of the California Avocado Commission who owns a grove where the flies and larvae were found. There's a lot of growers in Valley Center who are organic, said Stehly, who also owns 10 acres of organically grown avocados near Interstate 15. It gives them an option so they can take their fruit to market. http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/northcounty/20021206-_1mi6mexfly.html http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/uniontrib/sun/metro/news_1mi1fly.html Organic growers are allowed to use a pesticide called spinosad, but it currently is unavailable because of an oversight by state officials who did not renew its annual registration. That was criminally negligent, Al Stehly said. Now we have one choice and that's malathion. Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] OT: San Diego Mexican Fruit Fly Quarantine Situation
Interesting that they are just burying the infested fruit?? Why not turn it in to ethanol. Truely is a a shame James Slayden BTW murdoch, you have any contacts in the avocado industry?? ;-) Hi James Ethanol and biodiesel - there's a lot of oil in that fruit, 282 gallons an acre, it says here. Or at least compost it - good composting in the orchards would reduce pest attack anyway. Or even eliminate it. Best Keith On Sat, 7 Dec 2002, murdoch wrote: http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/northcounty/20021205-_1mc5spin.html VALLEY CENTER Organic growers inside the expected quarantine area here will be able to fight the Mexican fruit fly with a new variety of a special insecticide, state officials said yesterday. The news was great relief to organic farmers who didn't know how they would be able to keep their certified-organic status while battling the destructive fly. There's been this fear out there that was not going to happen, but that is really good news, said Jerome Stehly, chairman of the California Avocado Commission who owns a grove where the flies and larvae were found. There's a lot of growers in Valley Center who are organic, said Stehly, who also owns 10 acres of organically grown avocados near Interstate 15. It gives them an option so they can take their fruit to market. http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/northcounty/20021206-_1mi6mexfl y.html http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/uniontrib/sun/metro/news_1mi1fly.html Organic growers are allowed to use a pesticide called spinosad, but it currently is unavailable because of an oversight by state officials who did not renew its annual registration. That was criminally negligent, Al Stehly said. Now we have one choice and that's malathion. Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] OT: San Diego Mexican Fruit Fly Quarantine Situation
Hmm, forgot about the oil content, Sheesh, one man's trash is another's treasure On Tue, 10 Dec 2002, Keith Addison wrote: Interesting that they are just burying the infested fruit?? Why not turn it in to ethanol. Truely is a a shame James Slayden BTW murdoch, you have any contacts in the avocado industry?? ;-) Hi James Ethanol and biodiesel - there's a lot of oil in that fruit, 282 gallons an acre, it says here. Or at least compost it - good composting in the orchards would reduce pest attack anyway. Or even eliminate it. Best Keith On Sat, 7 Dec 2002, murdoch wrote: http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/northcounty/20021205-_1mc5spin.html VALLEY CENTER ñ Organic growers inside the expected quarantine area here will be able to fight the Mexican fruit fly with a new variety of a special insecticide, state officials said yesterday. The news was great relief to organic farmers who didn't know how they would be able to keep their certified-organic status while battling the destructive fly. There's been this fear out there that was not going to happen, but that is really good news, said Jerome Stehly, chairman of the California Avocado Commission who owns a grove where the flies and larvae were found. There's a lot of growers in Valley Center who are organic, said Stehly, who also owns 10 acres of organically grown avocados near Interstate 15. It gives them an option so they can take their fruit to market. http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/northcounty/20021206-_1mi6mexfl y.html http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/uniontrib/sun/metro/news_1mi1fly.html Organic growers are allowed to use a pesticide called spinosad, but it currently is unavailable because of an oversight by state officials who did not renew its annual registration. That was criminally negligent, Al Stehly said. Now we have one choice and that's malathion. Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuels-biz] Re: ethanol racing story
Part 2 appears to have come out today and is more focused on the case for bringing ethanol (after appropriate testing and lobbying) into the IRL and other American racing series. http://www.evworld.com/databases/printit.cfm?storyid=462 It's not going to change the on-track product, he said. That's the opportunity. That's why it's attainable. That's why it's easy. It will give the industry a real strong platform to start saying, 'domestic, renewable, still high performance.' -- The driver is apparently sponsored in part by the Industry and makes this clear that he does not speak for the sport or the league. Several reasons are given for bringing ethanol to racing. There is one point that I disagreed with: Race sanctioning bodies are constantly working with their rules and formulas to knock speeds back down. If you were to put the car from methanol to ethanol, you'd see a horsepower drop, he admitted. But this would have virtually no impact on the speed of the car. Say you give up 50 horsepower, if you just lay the wing down another half degree you're going get the speed right back and the car's still going 200 mph , he noted. -- I do believe that there's no problem with bringing a lower horsepower fuel to the sport (so far so good), but then the next step shouldn't be to sacrifice safety (change the downforce and concommitant drag) to bring the speeds back up. The speeds are too high as it is, but if the product will be cheapened by a significant loss in speed, then I'm sure other ways can be found to bring speeds instantly back up after a change to a new fuel, rather than by sacrificing safety.. I've always thought that in the various racing venues, with speeds obviously being *way* too high for safety (because after the initial invention of the car we've obviously reached the point where we are capable of engines far too powerful for safety's sake), the way to go was to limit speeds to safer levels, and let manufacturers compete within those limited speeds. So, if bringing ethanol to racing might temporarily bring horsepower somewhat down, then that just doesn't seem like the end of the world. I'm sure in any transition from a well-researched fuel well-known to the teams, to a newer fuel not as well-known to the teams, they might have some challenges to overcome in getting to know it. But I'm sure in just a few short years they'd once again be at speeds that would have the race sanctioning bodies wringing their hands trying to find a way to keep speeds down. Ideally I've always wanted to find a way to suggest defining the rules of an auto race by starting with a more limited amount of energy per team. So, for a 300 mile race, let's say that you get some number of gallons of whatever fuel we're talking about, and that's it, and then let them have a lot more freedom as to how they want to build their engines (keeping a close eye on safety of their build and fuel tank) because it's going to be hard for them to go too fast if they can't have more than that amount of fuel. They'll have to get at least x miles to the gallon of whatever fuel. These rules could obviously be tweaked by changing the amount of fuel. For E-85 you might want a bit more, say, because the BTU content per gallon is lower. In the extreme, you could even have a race where the basic rule is to start with a given number of BTUs of energy and not even limit the technologies. So, a team could have x number of BTUs of E-85 or Methanol or Diesel or Biodiesel or Propane or Electricity stored in batteries, or CNG, or any combination of these or other fuels, it could choose to recycle on board or not (regen braking, regen suspension or other components), and whoever wins, wins. Ok, so it would be more appropriate for a sort of college-enthusiast type race, but why not try it for the big boys? I mean are GM and Toyota and the like afraid of a little engineering competition? At present the established American top-level series don't seem to have much commitment to using made-in-America fuel. Methanol is largely made in Canada, I think, which is not so terrible, but of course using Natural Gas to make it means that we have to import more for our Electricity. I believe that Methanex has some sourcing of Natural Gas from Chile? I wish I knew more about this. I would have thought there would be a push to have the racing series be more patriotic in some basic sense. I've seen some of the fans of NASCAR gather 'round the bar and root for their favorite driver, but I haven't yet seen them seem to mind that, if the fuel is gasoline then getting the Oil to make that gasoline means importing some of it from the same regions that have recently brought us the hijackers. I don't know if Phillips Petroleum imports oil from Saudi Arabia, but even if they don't, others have to, so any use of gasoline anywhere drives imports up. This description of NASCAR fuel did prove helpful.
Re: [biofuels-biz] OT: San Diego Mexican Fruit Fly Quarantine Situation
Yes, it was impossible not to think that as they showed pictures on local TV of dumping fruit (using bulldozers? I don't recall) into pits dug in the Earth. Interesting that they are just burying the infested fruit?? Why not turn it in to ethanol. Truely is a a shame http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/northcounty/20021205-_1mc5spin.html Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] Conflict-ridden Caspian basin is the world's next Persian Gulf
On Mon, 9 Dec 2002 22:54:56 +0900, you wrote: Interesting to read this four years later. http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/1998 I remember seeing a video of this situation, on 60 minutes or one of those shows, awhile back. An issue that seems to be in need of discussion, overall, is that if countries do business outside their borders, they should understand the consequences better. It seems to be natural resources which often occassion this issue or conflict or problem and it's an issue of political philosophy that I don't hear calmly discussed that much. Maybe we hear a debate about the whether it's ok to do business in and with present-day still-Communist Totaltarian China, given their human rights abuses (it is simply impossible not to buy everday items Made In China at Target or other stores these days... or to buy Made In America as a rule). But, obviously, that debate is not enough. Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] biofuels-homebrew problems
Dear Padraig, What makes you so sure it is methyl stearate? Do you have a reference for this perhaps? By the way, did you ever receive that paper I sent you entitled Kinetics of Palm Oil Transesterification In a Batch Reactor by D. Darnoko Munir Cheryan ? I have received no acknowledgement. Do you wish me to send it again? Michael Allen currently in New Zealand 6/12/02 07:04:29, goat industries [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Wendell, The skin that you are talking about is a common occurence with WVO. It is wax which forms in contact with cold air above the liquid surface. You will also notice a skin forming on the insides of your tanks. The wax will be methyl stearate. Paddy Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re:Virus protection
This is criminal and not a practical joke. I could track them down to ISP, connection port and exact time. The ISP could clearly identify the connection and customer. I reported this vandalism to the ISP and police. To fix it, it took me 3 hours, so I forwarded a claim of $225. I also took another bulletin board, so this supplier lost business. It's a bit of a twist in topic, but a few years ago when this was a more front-page story here in the States, somehow I recall the topic coming up of the FBI's efforts against cybercrimes, and I believe they had some sort of dollar-threshold which would allow them to bother to follow up, if you reported to them that damage had been done. Disgusting, I think, to think that your rights can be protected only if and when you can tell them that the damage to your life exceeds x amount of money. What the hell are we paying taxes for? If there are more such crimes than they have resources to investigate, then they ought be granted more resources, IMO. MM Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Hackers - was Re:Virus protection
What does Captain Crunch mean to you? Breakfast cereal. I'm familiar with this Captain Crunch and a few of the other stories, LOD vs. MOD, etc. I think I read both Mitnick books, his version and the one documenting the effort to catch him. While I'm sure some of the links you provide are interesting, I think on the narrow issue of etymology here, my understanding of the word hacker, here, is that in the present vernacular it has come to mean someone who hacks away at code. It may or may not be someone who breaks into other computers unauthorized. If it is, then that person may or may not be a malicious hacker (e.g. a cracker) or a benign one. Generally, I have seen some slight effort to distinguish. As to my own opinion, I certainly do understand that many hackers who get into others computers are, at worst, somewhat childishly malicious, and many end up doing a favor for us, sort of reminding us in the growing wild west, in a primitive new era, that this new invention of a door with a lock on it might not be a bad idea, or, for that matter, turning in your gun to the sherrif as you enter town. The benign ones enter, let us know that we're not up to par, but have mercy on us, knowing that in a society of division of labor and new technology, we find it hard to be on top of this. If I see a use of the word hacker I'm usually able to distinguish the intent of the author and I don't automatically assume that the hacker is malicious, but I seldom see it used to connote someone unless they do roam around breaking into systems. While this may bother the heck of out those designated under the original terminology, it seems to be the definition that the word has taken on. What word, then, can they claim if they wish to connote simply people who hack code and do not roam around trying doors? I guess they can say they are hackers and explain that this does not connote cracking, benign or otherwise, if that's the etymology they wish to hang their hats on. Or maybe there's another solution. And, if you haven't already done so, you really should read William Gibson's Sprawl SF cyberpunk trilogy: Neuromancer, Count Zero, Mona Lisa Overdrive. It's a bit amazing that Neuromancer was written in 1982, long before the WWW, though Gibson says he's a technological illiterate. The term cyberspace comes from Neuromancer. I assume you're talking to me in part? I tried Gibson, and found it strange and dark and drug related? put it down after a couple of pages. Basically, college cured me of reading. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Hackers - was Re:Virus protection
Hi MM snip And, if you haven't already done so, you really should read William Gibson's Sprawl SF cyberpunk trilogy: Neuromancer, Count Zero, Mona Lisa Overdrive. It's a bit amazing that Neuromancer was written in 1982, long before the WWW, though Gibson says he's a technological illiterate. The term cyberspace comes from Neuromancer. I assume you're talking to me in part? Not particularly. I tried Gibson, and found it strange and dark and drug related? No drugs, as I recall, or not in particular - strange and dark, maybe. But then so are Macbeth and Hamlet, and so would too have been even Pollyanna's life, in part, were she at all human. put it down after a couple of pages. Oh. Gibson is excellent SF. Basically, college cured me of reading. Sad. Keith Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Conflict-ridden Caspian basin is the world's next Persian Gulf
Interesting to read this four years later. http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/1998 /08/10/MN1650.DTL Perilous Lifeline to West Conflict-ridden Caspian basin is the world's next Persian Gulf Frank Viviano, Chronicle Staff Writer Monday, August 10, 1998 FIRST OF FOUR PARTS Vast oil reserves rivaling the Persian Gulf ring Central Asia's Caspian Sea, a turbulent region bristling with warfare, superpower maneuvering and sudden riches. In a month-long journey of 3,000 miles, 100 interviews and 4,000 photographs, a Chronicle team documented the bonanza -- and the perilous conditions on which America's energy future rests. A Chronicle Special Series Part I: Perilous lifeline to the West http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/1998 /08/10/MN1650.DTL Part II: Caspian ring of fire http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/1998 /08/11/MN46128.DTL Part III: Fuel for discontent http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/1998 /08/12/MN75474.DTL Part IV: Black Gold, Iron Rule http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/1998 /08/13/MN5511.DTL Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] The big picture Was: Hackers - Virus protection
hm I'm getting a bit annoyed about all this talk about hacker. Reason?? Cause I'm a hacker!! well sorta. I'm the original type of hacker. The kind that finds out by accident that the Captain Crunch whistle happens to be the right tones that .And it is very upsetting that this whole society's talk about hackers has like ... really gotten out of hand!! When is everyone gonna realize ... what this stupid game is all about?? The world at large ... is nothing more than a big board game. Run by some big people.. Call them whatever the heck you'd like .. I don't care. Global government-ers NWO'er Corporatizer's . Big Oil-ers ... whatevers. It doesn't matter what ya call them ... what's important is the world they see. Or rather the world they want to see.. For those of you who can't picture this world .. I'll help you. It's the world where EVERYONE and I mean EVERYONE ... is a slave. A world where EVERYONE .. globally .. puts out their $55.00/hr labor into society. The Mr. CEO takes his lazy-man's $50.00/hr out of it. The worker is left with his $5.00/hr minimum wage applied to his name. But he can't take his money out yet ... no sir. The Government then takes THEIR share. Rent's, utilities, food expenses and so on take their's. Only THEN is the worker allowed to enjoy his share. A big fat 50 cents worth of paper with a big fat $0.00 written on it. When is everyone gonna realize that everything that goes on in this world gets basically JUDGED . by that above scenario?? If some young kid discovers some invention that furthers this slavery cause GREAT .. he's heralded as the inventor of telephone or the inventor of the transistor ... or whatever. If this same young kid discovers a way to upset this picture such as an interesting experiment which shows how we can go around forcing people to getting the least possible food for the maximum input of labor oh ... ahh. ohh suddenly he's DEMONIZED. As malicious ... dangerous a whacko. When in reality, me ... and most other so-called hacker ... we're just kids. Who have no evil intent in mind. Just fascinated by how things works. Why?? Cause ahem it's cool.. how it works!! So please keep your focus away from us hackers. Refocus yourselves on the big boys. Figure out their motives. Why the Positive or negative news attention. I think you'll find it all comes down to how much money they stand to gain (or lose) or what percentage of the global population they stand to gain (or lose) as potential slaves. Otherwise, if you don't you'll (to use Keith's words ... I hope I use it in the right context) ..you'll swallow the party lines, hook line and sinker Sorry, just couldn't sit in the sidelines while all this was flying around,. Curtis Grew up as (original meaning) hacker Get your free newsletter at http://www.ezinfocenter.com/3122155/NL - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] It's a sub-culture, and it goes back at least 30 years. So do I! LOL! At least! If none of this had happened you wouldn't have a PC. Even worse, I wouldn't have a Mac. What does Captain Crunch mean to you? Breakfast cereal. Long long ago it came with a little plastic whistle in the box. Some phreaks discovered that if you blew the whistle into a phone it had the exact tone required to hack your way into Ma Bell's innards - free. So the man named by Newsweek as one of the Top Twenty hackers of all time became known as Captain Crunch. - Introducing NetZero Long Distance 1st month Free! Sign up today at: www.netzerolongdistance.com Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] speed limits in Europe
While I realize that it has been 14 years since I was in Europe, I am disappointed to hear the the back roads of France now have speed limits. Bright Blessings, Kim Hakan Falk wrote: It is only in Germany that you have no speed limit and this is on a very low percentage of their roads. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Bio fuel business-Tables
Hi Hakan Keith, First I want to tell you that any loss of power in todays vehicles in my mind does very little change. I have a licence to drive anything on wheels and the practical experiences that it implies. During my life time I have been driving around 3,000,000 km in almost any vehicles that you can imagine. Me too, anything from a bulldozer to a Dassault Mirage, two wheels, four, as many as you like or none at all. Okay, I only flew a Mirage once. :-) Not, however, only one wheel. Little Japanese kids learn to ride unicycles, it's quite a common sight to see them spinning round the place on their one-wheelers, I'm filled with envy. They look incredibly cool. (I know when I'm beaten.) With top speed limits between 55 to 85 miles per hour, most of current automobiles capacity has other values than pure and fast transportation. It is only in Germany that you have no speed limit and this is on a very low percentage of their roads. To talk about power loss in modern automobiles of around 10% does not really relate to any loss of efficiency in transportation. Talking about quantity used, have a direct relation to fuel produced. Therefore I am thinking more in fuel consumption than in power losses. You're right about the power loss, doesn't matter. Anyway, you still have the loss in fuel consumption, of up to 13%. Plus the 20% alcohol used in biodiesel (unless you recover, leaving average 13%), and the savings of being able to use 160-proof ethanol. I don't know how it compares, but these factors are not accounted for in the usual comparisons. At 11:49 PM 12/7/2002 +0900, you wrote: Hi Hakan snip Possible bi-products: The same as for previous point. Veg. oil do opens up for a larger number of replacement applications, among those are many in the lubrication field. The main by-product of each is stockfeed - DDG and seedcake, not much to choose between them. When I say byproducts, it is not only the stockfeed - DDG and seedcake. It is also the lubricant applications http://www.greenoil-online.com/hydraulc.html samples as Steve gave link to. http://www.carbohydrateeconomy.org/ceic/library/admin/uploadedfiles/H ow_Much_Energy_Does_it_Take_to_Make_a_Gallon_.html carefully and it says about Btu per gallon, Corn based, Industry average : net energy gain = (energy ethanol) 81,400 + (energy undefined co-products) 27,579 - (used energy) 81,090 = 30,589 (38% gain) Corn based, Industry best : net energy gain = (energy ethanol) 81,400 + (energy undefined co-products) 36,261 - (used energy) 57,504 = 62,857 (109% gain) Corn based, State of the Art Industry : net energy gain = (energy ethanol) 81,400 + (energy undefined co-products) 36,261 - (used energy) 47,948 = 62,857 (151% gain) Cellulose based, Industry : net energy gain = (energy ethanol) 81,400 + (energy undefined co-products) 115,400 - (used energy) 76,093 = 122,407 (162% gain) What are the co-products? Do they go in the tank? How do you use Gluten meal, Protein feed and Carbon dioxide in the tank? Why would you need to? You can, if you like, feed it (with great gain on the original product) to livestock, one possible co-product being methane, which indeed you can put in the tank. When I said this I referred to (energy undefined co-products) which are the ones used to boost the energy numbers for ethanol. If we go over to ethanol and biodiesel, the surplus for animal food might be too big to have any value. I do not have numbers on this, have you seen any? Others also think that might be a problem. There are already huge surpluses. Surplus is the true problem of agriculture, not shortage. But it is all obscured behind industrialized production systems and centralized planning such as the CAP, and highly inequitable free trade arrangements. However, in localized production, there are other options. Much as I say that biofuels crop production on a sustainable integrated farm need not require any exclusive land use, such excesses or wastes or by-products are easily absorbed without loss. You're not so much dependant on market swings. Localization is the best approach to gluts and dearths. Case - Europe is apparently experiencing a glut in glycerine as a result of biodiesel production there. (Yet this doesn't seem to have affected buying prices, as gluts of soy and corn don't seem to affect virgin oil prices in the US - but I'm sure it would affect selling prices for small producers.) A local producer has quite a few options with by-product glycerine. Read for Biodiesel that for 1 unit energy used it goes 3.2 units in the tank. For every 1 BTU of liquid fuel used to produce ethanol, there is a 6.34 BTU gain. (The Energy Balance of Corn Ethanol: An Update, Shapouri and Duffield, 2002) liquid fuel, when I read all of those references about energy balances, they specify things in different way. If you use bagasse or
Re: [biofuel] The big picture Was: Hackers - Virus protection
Hey Curtis :-) I was hoping to prise you out of the woodwork, I just didn't realize it'd be you. I'm not too surprised. You're a fone phreak? Anyway, cheer up. A bit better than slaves, a bit worse too - but by any definition there are probably only a few hundred million of them, it isn't everyone, not by a very long way, nor ever will be. When you have a closer look, maybe it's not quite like that even with the slaves. Some people talk of sheeple. Fine critters, sheep, and not that dumb either (Judas goats notwithstanding). I always find that rather patronizing and arrogant. (No, I'm not accusing you of that at all.) I find myself asking, What makes you think you're so different? In a previous era they were called the salt of the earth, perhaps just as patronizingly but with a lot more truth. Ad agencies and so on do their profilings and become convinced by them, especially as they work; the media often appeal to the lowest common denominator, and that works too. But it's quite easy to show that the opposite works even better - appealing to the best in people very often brings it out, and you don't go broke doing it either, not necessarily. (I've done that a few times with newspapers, and it really worked - up went the circulation, and the advertising with it. And no, they didn't like it. The readers did though.) People live their lives as best they can and do what they have to do, but there's nearly always more to them than you might think, they're not just numbers. There's hope. The powers-that-be aren't nearly as all-powerful as they try to tell us. Plenty of spreading cracks in their concrete. Anyway, long live Captain Crunch, and plastic whistles and viruses are good for you. Happy hacking! Regards Keith hm I'm getting a bit annoyed about all this talk about hacker. Reason?? Cause I'm a hacker!! well sorta. I'm the original type of hacker. The kind that finds out by accident that the Captain Crunch whistle happens to be the right tones that .And it is very upsetting that this whole society's talk about hackers has like ... really gotten out of hand!! When is everyone gonna realize ... what this stupid game is all about?? The world at large ... is nothing more than a big board game. Run by some big people.. Call them whatever the heck you'd like .. I don't care. Global government-ers NWO'er Corporatizer's . Big Oil-ers ... whatevers. It doesn't matter what ya call them ... what's important is the world they see. Or rather the world they want to see.. For those of you who can't picture this world .. I'll help you. It's the world where EVERYONE and I mean EVERYONE ... is a slave. A world where EVERYONE .. globally .. puts out their $55.00/hr labor into society. The Mr. CEO takes his lazy-man's $50.00/hr out of it. The worker is left with his $5.00/hr minimum wage applied to his name. But he can't take his money out yet ... no sir. The Government then takes THEIR share. Rent's, utilities, food expenses and so on take their's. Only THEN is the worker allowed to enjoy his share. A big fat 50 cents worth of paper with a big fat $0.00 written on it. When is everyone gonna realize that everything that goes on in this world gets basically JUDGED . by that above scenario?? If some young kid discovers some invention that furthers this slavery cause GREAT .. he's heralded as the inventor of telephone or the inventor of the transistor ... or whatever. If this same young kid discovers a way to upset this picture such as an interesting experiment which shows how we can go around forcing people to getting the least possible food for the maximum input of labor oh ... ahh. ohh suddenly he's DEMONIZED. As malicious ... dangerous a whacko. When in reality, me ... and most other so-called hacker ... we're just kids. Who have no evil intent in mind. Just fascinated by how things works. Why?? Cause ahem it's cool.. how it works!! So please keep your focus away from us hackers. Refocus yourselves on the big boys. Figure out their motives. Why the Positive or negative news attention. I think you'll find it all comes down to how much money they stand to gain (or lose) or what percentage of the global population they stand to gain (or lose) as potential slaves. Otherwise, if you don't you'll (to use Keith's words ... I hope I use it in the right context) ..you'll swallow the party lines, hook line and sinker Sorry, just couldn't sit in the sidelines while all this was flying around,. Curtis Grew up as (original meaning) hacker Get your free newsletter at http://www.ezinfocenter.com/3122155/NL - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] It's a sub-culture, and it goes back at least 30 years. So do I! LOL! At least! If none of this had happened you wouldn't
Re: [biofuel] The big picture
On Monday, December 9, 2002, at 11:41 AM, Keith Addison wrote: The powers-that-be aren't nearly as all-powerful as they try to tell us. Plenty of spreading cracks in their concrete. Their single greatest weakness is extreme short-sightedness. It's bad for everyone else too, of course, but it's always ultimately fatal to the current oligarchy. They never see their demise coming, even though everyone else did. -K Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Casual Observations
WOW!! Really scary site. Take a look under the database of field trials and ya get to see all the nice GMO foods out there, country, and GMO supplier. Now I know where Crichton get's his story line from James Slayden On Sat, 7 Dec 2002, k5farms [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We added more free fatty acids to the oil and then added the caustic, explains Wan. Though the method doesn't seem logical, it worked. The oil was lighter in color than before, and all its existing free fatty acids as well as those that Wan had supplied were essentially removed. Can't copy the specific link but go to: http://www.agribiz.com/INTEGRO/Bionews/ and select the link /From Oil Refinement to Baby Formula/ They didn't happen to say anything about ratios/amounts! But something to think about, eh? Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] A robot in our midst?
Talking of hackers, or whatever, does anybody know anything of list member Olivia Trusdale [EMAIL PROTECTED]? A member of other lists too, and she only ever posts news from Grist magazine: Check it out - with a link. Usually it's in response to stuff we've already had, sometimes even the exact article we've just had, and there have been some comments on that. Finally I wrote to her (?) and asked her if she worked for Grist, and didn't that make her a spammer, and put her under moderation, as a possible spammer. No response, but another post saying Check it out. I thought I'd have a response first, so I stopped that post and asked again. No response, so I killed the post (we'd already had it anyway). Another one just arrived, in response to the Caspian oil article I posted. Something odd about it. The link is this: http://www.gristmagazine.com/daily/daily120402.asp#3?source=stealth source=stealth? What's that mean? I subscribe to Daily Grist, so I checked the original - the link to that article (at the BBC) is this: http://www.gristmagazine.com/forward.pl?forward_id=750 I thought Olivia's weird link might be what you get when you use the Grist search engine, so I tried it, but that gives you normal links, no source=stealth. The links in all her messages are like that, without exception. What is going on here? Is this a spam-robot at work? Keith Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] The big picture
On Monday, December 9, 2002, at 11:41 AM, Keith Addison wrote: The powers-that-be aren't nearly as all-powerful as they try to tell us. Plenty of spreading cracks in their concrete. Their single greatest weakness is extreme short-sightedness. It's bad for everyone else too, of course, but it's always ultimately fatal to the current oligarchy. They never see their demise coming, even though everyone else did. -K Yes. Part of the short-sightedness is a lack of connection. They're blinkered by their pollings and profilings and averagings, and prejudices, and haven't a clue what people are about or what they're really up to. I think we recently saw a lesser example of that here in Big Biodiesel's hopelessly flawed view of homebrewers. Keith Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] A Really Dumb Idea
Tailgate http://www.ford.com/en/ourVehicles/environmentalVehicles/ethanolVehicles.htm There are links from there to check which models/years. James Slayden On Sat, 7 Dec 2002, Kim Garth Travis wrote: What year Rangers? What do you mean by 'gate'? Bright Blessings, Kim James Slayden wrote: Robert, A good many of the Ford Rangers are already set up as FFV's, might want to check to see if you model is one. Ususlly there is a little plack on the gate that has a highway and a greenleaf. But I would check with a model database online to verify for sure. If it is an FFV it will allow you to run E-85, ie. 85% ethanol - 15% gas. Then you could blend your own. James Slayden On Thu, 5 Dec 2002, robert luis rabello wrote: Hello everyone! I now live a little over 40 km away from work, and during my drive home tonight I was mulling over the whole idea of using ethanol as a fuel for my 2.3 liter Ford Ranger. The problem with distillation, aside from legality issues, stems from the energy required to adequately separate ethanol from water. So I did a little bit of math in my head: My truck uses 1 liter of gasoline for roughly every 10 kilometers of travel. That's a little more than 3 kw of energy--most of which (at least 50%) ends up in either the coolant or the exhaust. For every 10 kilometers I drive, I have at least 1 500 watts of throw away energy available in the form of heat. Let's pretend for a moment that I have a tank of fermented beer and a tank of water onboard. The water will be pumped to the front of my truck and run through a transmission cooler to lower its temperature. The beer, on the other hand, gets pumped through a heat exchanger connected to the hottest part of my truck's radiator. (If I need more heat, I can use the exhaust header.) By designing a zig zag, or coiled stripping column (using the cooled water to regulate temperature), I could separate the ethanol and return the tailings to the beer tank. (In fact, I COULD use my engine to drive a vacuum pump that would allow lower temperature operation too!) The ethanol can run through another transmission cooler which acts as a condenser, and from there into the truck's main fuel tank. It's distillation as you drive! Perhaps I need some sleep right now. . . Has anyone experimented with ethanol using oversized injectors on a computer controlled multi port fuel injection engine? robert luis rabello Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] A Really Dumb Idea
sorry, here is a better link: http://www.fleet.ford.com/truckbbas/non-html/2000/BBRANGER.PDF Looks like the 3.0L(182 CID) FFV SEFI V-6 is the model to look for James Slayden On Sat, 7 Dec 2002, Kim Garth Travis wrote: What year Rangers? What do you mean by 'gate'? Bright Blessings, Kim James Slayden wrote: Robert, A good many of the Ford Rangers are already set up as FFV's, might want to check to see if you model is one. Ususlly there is a little plack on the gate that has a highway and a greenleaf. But I would check with a model database online to verify for sure. If it is an FFV it will allow you to run E-85, ie. 85% ethanol - 15% gas. Then you could blend your own. James Slayden On Thu, 5 Dec 2002, robert luis rabello wrote: Hello everyone! I now live a little over 40 km away from work, and during my drive home tonight I was mulling over the whole idea of using ethanol as a fuel for my 2.3 liter Ford Ranger. The problem with distillation, aside from legality issues, stems from the energy required to adequately separate ethanol from water. So I did a little bit of math in my head: My truck uses 1 liter of gasoline for roughly every 10 kilometers of travel. That's a little more than 3 kw of energy--most of which (at least 50%) ends up in either the coolant or the exhaust. For every 10 kilometers I drive, I have at least 1 500 watts of throw away energy available in the form of heat. Let's pretend for a moment that I have a tank of fermented beer and a tank of water onboard. The water will be pumped to the front of my truck and run through a transmission cooler to lower its temperature. The beer, on the other hand, gets pumped through a heat exchanger connected to the hottest part of my truck's radiator. (If I need more heat, I can use the exhaust header.) By designing a zig zag, or coiled stripping column (using the cooled water to regulate temperature), I could separate the ethanol and return the tailings to the beer tank. (In fact, I COULD use my engine to drive a vacuum pump that would allow lower temperature operation too!) The ethanol can run through another transmission cooler which acts as a condenser, and from there into the truck's main fuel tank. It's distillation as you drive! Perhaps I need some sleep right now. . . Has anyone experimented with ethanol using oversized injectors on a computer controlled multi port fuel injection engine? robert luis rabello Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] A robot in our midst?
It sounds like a robot. This is not to say that the articles are poor or that I don't admire the chutzpah of it even if I resent it, but it sounds like a bot. As long as we're on the topic, make sure when you write someone like that (as I'm pretty sure you're aware) that the subject line does not reflect the word biofuel, because some of us have email filters set to filter by subject line, and thus private emails with unchanged subject headings sometimes get filtered into the giant pile. I've tried to change the way I filter, but thus far it hasn't worked. But in this case, it just sounds like a bot, though I guess I was fooled once or twice by her. On Tue, 10 Dec 2002 06:28:07 +0900, you wrote: Talking of hackers, or whatever, does anybody know anything of list member Olivia Trusdale [EMAIL PROTECTED]? A member of other lists too, and she only ever posts news from Grist magazine: Check it out - with a link. Usually it's in response to stuff we've already had, sometimes even the exact article we've just had, and there have been some comments on that. Finally I wrote to her (?) and asked her if she worked for Grist, and didn't that make her a spammer, and put her under moderation, as a possible spammer. No response, but another post saying Check it out. I thought I'd have a response first, so I stopped that post and asked again. No response, so I killed the post (we'd already had it anyway). Another one just arrived, in response to the Caspian oil article I posted. Something odd about it. The link is this: http://www.gristmagazine.com/daily/daily120402.asp#3?source=stealth source=stealth? What's that mean? I subscribe to Daily Grist, so I checked the original - the link to that article (at the BBC) is this: http://www.gristmagazine.com/forward.pl?forward_id=750 I thought Olivia's weird link might be what you get when you use the Grist search engine, so I tried it, but that gives you normal links, no source=stealth. The links in all her messages are like that, without exception. What is going on here? Is this a spam-robot at work? Keith Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: ethanol racing story
Part 2 appears to have come out today and is more focused on the case for bringing ethanol (after appropriate testing and lobbying) into the IRL and other American racing series. http://www.evworld.com/databases/printit.cfm?storyid=462 It's not going to change the on-track product, he said. That's the opportunity. That's why it's attainable. That's why it's easy. It will give the industry a real strong platform to start saying, 'domestic, renewable, still high performance.' -- The driver is apparently sponsored in part by the Industry and makes this clear that he does not speak for the sport or the league. Several reasons are given for bringing ethanol to racing. There is one point that I disagreed with: Race sanctioning bodies are constantly working with their rules and formulas to knock speeds back down. If you were to put the car from methanol to ethanol, you'd see a horsepower drop, he admitted. But this would have virtually no impact on the speed of the car. Say you give up 50 horsepower, if you just lay the wing down another half degree you're going get the speed right back and the car's still going 200 mph , he noted. -- I do believe that there's no problem with bringing a lower horsepower fuel to the sport (so far so good), but then the next step shouldn't be to sacrifice safety (change the downforce and concommitant drag) to bring the speeds back up. The speeds are too high as it is, but if the product will be cheapened by a significant loss in speed, then I'm sure other ways can be found to bring speeds instantly back up after a change to a new fuel, rather than by sacrificing safety.. I've always thought that in the various racing venues, with speeds obviously being *way* too high for safety (because after the initial invention of the car we've obviously reached the point where we are capable of engines far too powerful for safety's sake), the way to go was to limit speeds to safer levels, and let manufacturers compete within those limited speeds. So, if bringing ethanol to racing might temporarily bring horsepower somewhat down, then that just doesn't seem like the end of the world. I'm sure in any transition from a well-researched fuel well-known to the teams, to a newer fuel not as well-known to the teams, they might have some challenges to overcome in getting to know it. But I'm sure in just a few short years they'd once again be at speeds that would have the race sanctioning bodies wringing their hands trying to find a way to keep speeds down. Ideally I've always wanted to find a way to suggest defining the rules of an auto race by starting with a more limited amount of energy per team. So, for a 300 mile race, let's say that you get some number of gallons of whatever fuel we're talking about, and that's it, and then let them have a lot more freedom as to how they want to build their engines (keeping a close eye on safety of their build and fuel tank) because it's going to be hard for them to go too fast if they can't have more than that amount of fuel. They'll have to get at least x miles to the gallon of whatever fuel. These rules could obviously be tweaked by changing the amount of fuel. For E-85 you might want a bit more, say, because the BTU content per gallon is lower. In the extreme, you could even have a race where the basic rule is to start with a given number of BTUs of energy and not even limit the technologies. So, a team could have x number of BTUs of E-85 or Methanol or Diesel or Biodiesel or Propane or Electricity stored in batteries, or CNG, or any combination of these or other fuels, it could choose to recycle on board or not (regen braking, regen suspension or other components), and whoever wins, wins. Ok, so it would be more appropriate for a sort of college-enthusiast type race, but why not try it for the big boys? I mean are GM and Toyota and the like afraid of a little engineering competition? At present the established American top-level series don't seem to have much commitment to using made-in-America fuel. Methanol is largely made in Canada, I think, which is not so terrible, but of course using Natural Gas to make it means that we have to import more for our Electricity. I believe that Methanex has some sourcing of Natural Gas from Chile? I wish I knew more about this. I would have thought there would be a push to have the racing series be more patriotic in some basic sense. I've seen some of the fans of NASCAR gather 'round the bar and root for their favorite driver, but I haven't yet seen them seem to mind that, if the fuel is gasoline then getting the Oil to make that gasoline means importing some of it from the same regions that have recently brought us the hijackers. I don't know if Phillips Petroleum imports oil from Saudi Arabia, but even if they don't, others have to, so any use of gasoline anywhere drives imports up. This description of NASCAR fuel did prove helpful.
[biofuel] Re: [biofuels-biz] OT: San Diego Mexican Fruit Fly Quarantine Situation
Yes, it was impossible not to think that as they showed pictures on local TV of dumping fruit (using bulldozers? I don't recall) into pits dug in the Earth. Interesting that they are just burying the infested fruit?? Why not turn it in to ethanol. Truely is a a shame http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/northcounty/20021205-_1mc5spin.html Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: [biofuels-biz] Conflict-ridden Caspian basin is the world's next Persian Gulf
On Mon, 9 Dec 2002 22:54:56 +0900, you wrote: Interesting to read this four years later. http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/1998 I remember seeing a video of this situation, on 60 minutes or one of those shows, awhile back. An issue that seems to be in need of discussion, overall, is that if countries do business outside their borders, they should understand the consequences better. It seems to be natural resources which often occassion this issue or conflict or problem and it's an issue of political philosophy that I don't hear calmly discussed that much. Maybe we hear a debate about the whether it's ok to do business in and with present-day still-Communist Totaltarian China, given their human rights abuses (it is simply impossible not to buy everday items Made In China at Target or other stores these days... or to buy Made In America as a rule). But, obviously, that debate is not enough. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Use of Renewable Energy Took a Big Fall in 2001
http://www.truthout.org/docs_02/12.10F.renewable.htm Use of Renewable Energy Took a Big Fall in 2001 By Matthew L. Wald Friday, 6 December, 2002 WASHINGTON, Dec. 6 -- Consumption of energy from renewable sources, like the sun, the wind and biological fuels, fell sharply in 2001, the Department of Energy has reported. The department attributed much of the decline to a drought that cut generation of hydroelectric power by 23 percent. Such variations are natural. But in a report last month, the department's Energy Information Administration also said solar equipment was being retired faster than new equipment was being built. Back in the late 70's and early 80's, we had very, very large support programs, said Fred Mayes, who handles data on renewable energy at the energy information agency. Those programs, begun after the loss of oil from Iran pushed the price to almost $40 a barrel, expired in the 1980's, and things went into the tank, Mr. Mayes said. Equipment from the boom years is wearing out, and the base of installed equipment is shrinking, he said. This is true even though shipments of new equipment have risen in the last few years, analysts say. The number of solar collectors, which gather the sun's heat for uses like warming swimming pools, has increased sharply in the last few years, including 34 percent in 2001 alone, the department said. A spokesman for the solar industry, Scott Sklar, agreed with that assessment. But by the Energy Department's estimate, the total amount of solar energy gathered has fallen three years in a row. The use of photovoltaic cells, which generate electricity with sunlight, is also growing. Domestic installations were up 80 percent last year, the department reported. Biomass, including burning of wood or similar renewable products to produce energy and the use of alcohol fuels, declined nearly 2 percent. The use of wind power grew more than 3 percent. Over all, consumption of renewable energy fell 12 percent to what the department said was the lowest level in more than 12 years, accounting for only 6 percent of the energy consumed in the country. Of the renewables, biomass accounted for 50.4 percent of the total and hydroelectric for 41.9 percent. The remainder was from the sun, the wind and geothermal sources. Many environmentalists say solar and wind power have the greatest potential for growth and for displacing fuels that cause pollution and are suspected of causing changes in the world's climate. The solar total is still very small; 36.3 megawatts of capacity were added in 2001. At that rate it would take 30 years to add the capacity of one large nuclear plant. For the first time since records have been kept, exports of solar cells declined in 2001. That occurred, Mr. Mayes said, because the companies that build the cells expanded production capacity in other countries. Solar cells are still too costly to compete with conventional power, but experts say they are increasingly used to supply small amounts of power in places where connecting to the grid would be costly. Mr. Mayes said he was surprised to find solar cells and batteries being used on the Strip in Las Vegas to provide power to light bus shelters. Although the area has electricity, installing solar cells was cheaper than digging up the sidewalks to put in power lines, he said. (In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, this material is distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for research and educational purposes.) Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] A robot in our midst?
Looks like an interesting 'hit-miner' operation. pseudo-spam mailing lists about things targetted to their audience and get people to click on the links? I'd email the webmaster and ask them. Keith Addison wrote: I thought Olivia's weird link might be what you get when you use the Grist search engine, so I tried it, but that gives you normal links, no source=stealth. The links in all her messages are like that, without exception. What is going on here? Is this a spam-robot at work? Keith Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Car power inverter on sale
Hola Biofuelers, There is an 400watt Auto DC/AC Power inverter on sale at Target. Since the cost of the Greasecar/Neoteric's oil pumping unit may be beyond some of our pocketbooks, the inverter w/ a 110AC pump might be a substitute. It looks like it has both battery clips and a optional lighter socket. Enjoy, James Slayden Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Bio fuel business-Tables
Hi Hakan, On the note of Socitial Acceptance, it is more than just a Big vs. Small issue, it is a usage issue by the public. If a consumer 'perceives' some sort of limitation in the acceptance and usage of a alternative fuel, then the business case will have to overcome and be able to sustain that perception for a period of time. Ethanol and Biodiesel are still somewhat stigmatized, although there is push to overcome this at many levels. Last year ADM was running ads on television for ethanol, which I can only assume is priming the market. Quite effective for prepairing folks to make a switch to an alterantive fuel. By the time they do sell E85 in a market, there will be enough interest to sustain that market until the economies of scale come into play. This actually benefits the small producer as his product is locally produced and sold, thus lowering his overhead. The small producer benefits from the blanket media infusion of a Big Alternative Fuels. The only thing the Big AF has to do is void the credability of the small producer to maintain the market. And the only thing the small producer has to do is secure enough local contracts to maintain the business. It then becomes more of a niche market for the local producer, which can also be very lucrative. Lots of niche markets survive out there and do extreemely well. If I was a small producer, I would try to distinguish my product from Big AF, maybe in utilizing an all organic feedstock, or maybe emphasizing my local community connections, or even the nature of my feedstock source such as using WVO as opposed to using GMO crop residue, etc. A great amount of marketing leaway here. ;-) James Slayden On Sat, 7 Dec 2002, Hakan Falk wrote: Hi James, Very good, a lot in a short message. This idea about biofuel business start to be more work than I originally thought. Taking the idea of a business, does put some real sustainable demands on the thoughts. Every time I get a few moments to think about it, several new ideas pops up in my mind, nearly as frequent as the irritating pop-up ads on Internet. 1. Crops and trees give some burnable residues for BD also. 2. Good point about WVO, so a sustainable BD business need to be based on SVO. 3. I see more and more recycling plants for WVO to BD. Large Spanish interests are putting up 4 of them and are starting to pay for WVO. This supports your thoughts. 4. Social acceptance is a good one and touch very much the table (presentation) big vs. small that I still thinking about. How do you present and evaluate this kind of things. Hakan At 08:36 PM 12/6/2002 -0800, you wrote: Hi Hakan, The net energy in Cellulose based ethanol might be higher if the lingin is burned for processing. Since there is issues burning the Glyc from BD it wouldn't add to the BD net energy. The window of opportunity is really dependent on feedstock availability which really isn't decreasing. It might be that with WVO as the feedstock a baseline commodity pricing structure will occur, but again as Keith just posted again that the average collection of WVO runs around 10% there is a good lead in period before pricing structures begin (in general). With Ethanol, the perception barrier to opposition and acceptance is the utilization of Cellulostic feedstock vs. food crop feedstock. Not that in the real world this is an issue, just a hyped perception issue by the media. As we well know that most of the grains in this counrty go to animal feed anyway. But acceptance will be based on this false assumption. Looking at the table, you might want to put a catagory like Socitial Acceptance to define some possible inhibitors. James Slayden On Sat, 7 Dec 2002, Hakan Falk wrote: Hi Keith, Thank you for the help, it is very useful. At 07:36 PM 12/6/2002 +0900, you wrote: snip Possible bi-products: The same as for previous point. Veg. oil do opens up for a larger number of replacement applications, among those are many in the lubrication field. The main by-product of each is stockfeed - DDG and seedcake, not much to choose between them. Ethanol's use as an oxygenate additive to gasoline is comparable to the use of B5 as a lubrication booster for ULSD. Lubricants made from vegoils are not for backyard operations - centralized. I think the major difference is perhaps the heating oil application, and power generation. snip Energy for production: I read a lot and I seems that ethanol is the most energy demanding process, oil pressing definitely is the least. Biodiesel as I understand the process, is much less energy demanding than alcohol. On producing raw material they are all similar, but distilling is a very energy demanding process. See above. See also Butterfield still references above. Plant Performance Data
Re: [biofuel] Bio fuel business-Tables
Hi Keith, I like to give it a final round and then try to write something and like a response. Also to give some more people opportunity to input. I thought that this subject was important and worth an attempt. But to get everybody involved, hackers seems to be more interesting and I see nothing wrong in this, but. At 04:41 AM 12/10/2002 +0900, you wrote: Hi Hakan Keith, First I want to tell you that any loss of power in todays vehicles in my mind does very little change. I have a licence to drive anything on wheels and the practical experiences that it implies. During my life time I have been driving around 3,000,000 km in almost any vehicles that you can imagine. Me too, anything from a bulldozer to a Dassault Mirage, two wheels, four, as many as you like or none at all. Okay, I only flew a Mirage once. :-) That means that you also have a very pragmatic view about vehicles. I only had a Cessna Cardinal and flew it around 400 hours, never piloted a jet and never even got the possibility to get in a jet fighter as passenger -:( . At 61, I think I have to give up that dream, because of the G-forces. Even small aerobatic plane as passenger, feels uncomfortable now, age I guess. I tried one of those modern roller coasters last summer and got severe neck pain from it, rheumatic problems or what it is called in English when your bone structure starts to degrade, I am 2 centimeter shorter now. Not, however, only one wheel. Little Japanese kids learn to ride unicycles, it's quite a common sight to see them spinning round the place on their one-wheelers, I'm filled with envy. They look incredibly cool. (I know when I'm beaten.) me too. With top speed limits between 55 to 85 miles per hour, most of current automobiles capacity has other values than pure and fast transportation. It is only in Germany that you have no speed limit and this is on a very low percentage of their roads. To talk about power loss in modern automobiles of around 10% does not really relate to any loss of efficiency in transportation. Talking about quantity used, have a direct relation to fuel produced. Therefore I am thinking more in fuel consumption than in power losses. You're right about the power loss, doesn't matter. Anyway, you still have the loss in fuel consumption, of up to 13%. Plus the 20% alcohol used in biodiesel (unless you recover, leaving average 13%), and the savings of being able to use 160-proof ethanol. I don't know how it compares, but these factors are not accounted for in the usual comparisons. When I was driving on biodiesel in Europe, I did not see any higher consumption in my cars. Now when I was driving a VW Gol in Brazil the higher consumption compared with my wife's VW Golf was very noticeable. My wife's car is 4 years old and the Brazilian new, but I think that they are somewhat delayed in versions in Brazil and that it is comparable. Compared with a new Golf in Europe, it was very much higher consumption, nearly 100%. At 11:49 PM 12/7/2002 +0900, you wrote: Hi Hakan snip Possible bi-products: The same as for previous point. Veg. oil do opens up for a larger number of replacement applications, among those are many in the lubrication field. The main by-product of each is stockfeed - DDG and seedcake, not much to choose between them. When I say byproducts, it is not only the stockfeed - DDG and seedcake. It is also the lubricant applications http://www.greenoil-online.com/hydraulc.html samples as Steve gave link to. http://www.carbohydrateeconomy.org/ceic/library/admin/uploadedfiles/H ow_Much_Energy_Does_it_Take_to_Make_a_Gallon_.html carefully and it says about Btu per gallon, Corn based, Industry average : net energy gain = (energy ethanol) 81,400 + (energy undefined co-products) 27,579 - (used energy) 81,090 = 30,589 (38% gain) Corn based, Industry best : net energy gain = (energy ethanol) 81,400 + (energy undefined co-products) 36,261 - (used energy) 57,504 = 62,857 (109% gain) Corn based, State of the Art Industry : net energy gain = (energy ethanol) 81,400 + (energy undefined co-products) 36,261 - (used energy) 47,948 = 62,857 (151% gain) Cellulose based, Industry : net energy gain = (energy ethanol) 81,400 + (energy undefined co-products) 115,400 - (used energy) 76,093 = 122,407 (162% gain) What are the co-products? Do they go in the tank? How do you use Gluten meal, Protein feed and Carbon dioxide in the tank? Why would you need to? You can, if you like, feed it (with great gain on the original product) to livestock, one possible co-product being methane, which indeed you can put in the tank. When I said this I referred to (energy undefined co-products) which are the ones used to boost the energy numbers for ethanol. If we go over to ethanol and biodiesel, the surplus for animal food might be too
Re: [biofuel] Bio fuel business-Tables
Hi James, In most bootstrapping businesses that I experienced and have seen, your comment is a very important part. In a market it is many activities of promotion. In the beginning most of them from local environment, but also from large players that want to prime the markets. This is going on now, with the new green look of Big oil and other things. They know that a change is coming and spend money on preparing, not on deliver products. This is a part of what creates the famous window of opportunity, were a small supplier can grow big. The phase after that is when the market is big and established enough for the large companies. That is when they buy the available market shares, in order to get the needed volumes, but many times some startups continue on their own and even buy others. This creates the newcomers in the Big companies. The moment that the buy up period starts, the window of opportunity closes rapidly. The ticket to entry the market get too expensive for a small/medium large company. Many of the startups also becomes important suppliers to the Big whatsoever. If you are too early in a market and want to be big, you have a good chance to fail. If you are too late, you cannot afford the ticket. If you hit the window, it is a fair chance to be successful. This is why the entrepreneur is so important. He enters early and small because of enthusiasm and is often stubborn enough to stay until the window of opportunity opens. He is successful not because of smartness, but because of enthusiasm and stubbornness and that is probably the only common factor among successful entrepreneurs. Hakan At 03:59 PM 12/9/2002 -0800, you wrote: Hi Hakan, On the note of Socitial Acceptance, it is more than just a Big vs. Small issue, it is a usage issue by the public. If a consumer 'perceives' some sort of limitation in the acceptance and usage of a alternative fuel, then the business case will have to overcome and be able to sustain that perception for a period of time. Ethanol and Biodiesel are still somewhat stigmatized, although there is push to overcome this at many levels. Last year ADM was running ads on television for ethanol, which I can only assume is priming the market. Quite effective for prepairing folks to make a switch to an alterantive fuel. By the time they do sell E85 in a market, there will be enough interest to sustain that market until the economies of scale come into play. This actually benefits the small producer as his product is locally produced and sold, thus lowering his overhead. The small producer benefits from the blanket media infusion of a Big Alternative Fuels. The only thing the Big AF has to do is void the credability of the small producer to maintain the market. And the only thing the small producer has to do is secure enough local contracts to maintain the business. It then becomes more of a niche market for the local producer, which can also be very lucrative. Lots of niche markets survive out there and do extreemely well. If I was a small producer, I would try to distinguish my product from Big AF, maybe in utilizing an all organic feedstock, or maybe emphasizing my local community connections, or even the nature of my feedstock source such as using WVO as opposed to using GMO crop residue, etc. A great amount of marketing leaway here. ;-) James Slayden On Sat, 7 Dec 2002, Hakan Falk wrote: Hi James, Very good, a lot in a short message. This idea about biofuel business start to be more work than I originally thought. Taking the idea of a business, does put some real sustainable demands on the thoughts. Every time I get a few moments to think about it, several new ideas pops up in my mind, nearly as frequent as the irritating pop-up ads on Internet. 1. Crops and trees give some burnable residues for BD also. 2. Good point about WVO, so a sustainable BD business need to be based on SVO. 3. I see more and more recycling plants for WVO to BD. Large Spanish interests are putting up 4 of them and are starting to pay for WVO. This supports your thoughts. 4. Social acceptance is a good one and touch very much the table (presentation) big vs. small that I still thinking about. How do you present and evaluate this kind of things. Hakan At 08:36 PM 12/6/2002 -0800, you wrote: Hi Hakan, The net energy in Cellulose based ethanol might be higher if the lingin is burned for processing. Since there is issues burning the Glyc from BD it wouldn't add to the BD net energy. The window of opportunity is really dependent on feedstock availability which really isn't decreasing. It might be that with WVO as the feedstock a baseline commodity pricing structure will occur, but again as Keith just posted again that the average collection of WVO runs around 10% there is a good lead in period before pricing structures begin (in general). With Ethanol, the perception
RE: [biofuel] Bio fuel business-Tables
Sounds good to me Good luck raw -Original Message- From: Hakan Falk [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2002 11:32 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Bio fuel business-Tables Hi James, In most bootstrapping businesses that I experienced and have seen, your comment is a very important part. In a market it is many activities of promotion. In the beginning most of them from local environment, but also from large players that want to prime the markets. This is going on now, with the new green look of Big oil and other things. They know that a change is coming and spend money on preparing, not on deliver products. This is a part of what creates the famous window of opportunity, were a small supplier can grow big. The phase after that is when the market is big and established enough for the large companies. That is when they buy the available market shares, in order to get the needed volumes, but many times some startups continue on their own and even buy others. This creates the newcomers in the Big companies. The moment that the buy up period starts, the window of opportunity closes rapidly. The ticket to entry the market get too expensive for a small/medium large company. Many of the startups also becomes important suppliers to the Big whatsoever. If you are too early in a market and want to be big, you have a good chance to fail. If you are too late, you cannot afford the ticket. If you hit the window, it is a fair chance to be successful. This is why the entrepreneur is so important. He enters early and small because of enthusiasm and is often stubborn enough to stay until the window of opportunity opens. He is successful not because of smartness, but because of enthusiasm and stubbornness and that is probably the only common factor among successful entrepreneurs. Hakan At 03:59 PM 12/9/2002 -0800, you wrote: Hi Hakan, On the note of Socitial Acceptance, it is more than just a Big vs. Small issue, it is a usage issue by the public. If a consumer 'perceives' some sort of limitation in the acceptance and usage of a alternative fuel, then the business case will have to overcome and be able to sustain that perception for a period of time. Ethanol and Biodiesel are still somewhat stigmatized, although there is push to overcome this at many levels. Last year ADM was running ads on television for ethanol, which I can only assume is priming the market. Quite effective for prepairing folks to make a switch to an alterantive fuel. By the time they do sell E85 in a market, there will be enough interest to sustain that market until the economies of scale come into play. This actually benefits the small producer as his product is locally produced and sold, thus lowering his overhead. The small producer benefits from the blanket media infusion of a Big Alternative Fuels. The only thing the Big AF has to do is void the credability of the small producer to maintain the market. And the only thing the small producer has to do is secure enough local contracts to maintain the business. It then becomes more of a niche market for the local producer, which can also be very lucrative. Lots of niche markets survive out there and do extreemely well. If I was a small producer, I would try to distinguish my product from Big AF, maybe in utilizing an all organic feedstock, or maybe emphasizing my local community connections, or even the nature of my feedstock source such as using WVO as opposed to using GMO crop residue, etc. A great amount of marketing leaway here. ;-) James Slayden On Sat, 7 Dec 2002, Hakan Falk wrote: Hi James, Very good, a lot in a short message. This idea about biofuel business start to be more work than I originally thought. Taking the idea of a business, does put some real sustainable demands on the thoughts. Every time I get a few moments to think about it, several new ideas pops up in my mind, nearly as frequent as the irritating pop-up ads on Internet. 1. Crops and trees give some burnable residues for BD also. 2. Good point about WVO, so a sustainable BD business need to be based on SVO. 3. I see more and more recycling plants for WVO to BD. Large Spanish interests are putting up 4 of them and are starting to pay for WVO. This supports your thoughts. 4. Social acceptance is a good one and touch very much the table (presentation) big vs. small that I still thinking about. How do you present and evaluate this kind of things. Hakan At 08:36 PM 12/6/2002 -0800, you wrote: Hi Hakan, The net energy in Cellulose based ethanol might be higher if the lingin is burned for processing. Since there is issues burning the Glyc from BD it wouldn't add to the BD net energy. The window of opportunity is really dependent on feedstock availability which really isn't decreasing. It might be that with WVO as the feedstock a baseline commodity pricing structure will occur, but
[biofuel] Global Diesel Differences
Hello All, I'm looking for a concise description of the differences between European (global if you know) and US diesel fuel (BTU, Sulphur content, refinement processes, etc), exhaust systems (Catalytic converters, emission controls, etc), as well as any other significant combustion and/or emissions differences. I'm trying to put together a complete but digestible description of global diesel usage as well as the reasons for it's notable lack of presence in the US. Thanks, Thom Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Car power inverter on sale
That is unfortunately fairly low-power for most of the pumps I've seen... which range from 6 amps to 8 amps, a lot higher than the 3 or so amps that 400 watts would let you drive. And there's always the possibility of asking at restaurants you get your grease from, and then plugging in to wall power... Mark At 03:29 PM 12/9/2002 -0800, you wrote: Hola Biofuelers, There is an 400watt Auto DC/AC Power inverter on sale at Target. Since the cost of the Greasecar/Neoteric's oil pumping unit may be beyond some of our pocketbooks, the inverter w/ a 110AC pump might be a substitute. It looks like it has both battery clips and a optional lighter socket. Enjoy, James Slayden Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlhttp://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Bio fuel business-Tables
Hi again James, I forgot to tell you that a natural defense area for the smaller companies, is precisely the niche markets or for one that wants to have a platform to enter the market in a late stage. The niches is safe territory to operate from, quite like how the military build its operations. It is not an accident that many of our leading business leaders are former strategists from the military and many of them are quite good too. Hakan At 02:31 AM 12/10/2002 +0100, you wrote: Hi James, In most bootstrapping businesses that I experienced and have seen, your comment is a very important part. In a market it is many activities of promotion. In the beginning most of them from local environment, but also from large players that want to prime the markets. This is going on now, with the new green look of Big oil and other things. They know that a change is coming and spend money on preparing, not on deliver products. This is a part of what creates the famous window of opportunity, were a small supplier can grow big. The phase after that is when the market is big and established enough for the large companies. That is when they buy the available market shares, in order to get the needed volumes, but many times some startups continue on their own and even buy others. This creates the newcomers in the Big companies. The moment that the buy up period starts, the window of opportunity closes rapidly. The ticket to entry the market get too expensive for a small/medium large company. Many of the startups also becomes important suppliers to the Big whatsoever. If you are too early in a market and want to be big, you have a good chance to fail. If you are too late, you cannot afford the ticket. If you hit the window, it is a fair chance to be successful. This is why the entrepreneur is so important. He enters early and small because of enthusiasm and is often stubborn enough to stay until the window of opportunity opens. He is successful not because of smartness, but because of enthusiasm and stubbornness and that is probably the only common factor among successful entrepreneurs. Hakan At 03:59 PM 12/9/2002 -0800, you wrote: Hi Hakan, On the note of Socitial Acceptance, it is more than just a Big vs. Small issue, it is a usage issue by the public. If a consumer 'perceives' some sort of limitation in the acceptance and usage of a alternative fuel, then the business case will have to overcome and be able to sustain that perception for a period of time. Ethanol and Biodiesel are still somewhat stigmatized, although there is push to overcome this at many levels. Last year ADM was running ads on television for ethanol, which I can only assume is priming the market. Quite effective for prepairing folks to make a switch to an alterantive fuel. By the time they do sell E85 in a market, there will be enough interest to sustain that market until the economies of scale come into play. This actually benefits the small producer as his product is locally produced and sold, thus lowering his overhead. The small producer benefits from the blanket media infusion of a Big Alternative Fuels. The only thing the Big AF has to do is void the credability of the small producer to maintain the market. And the only thing the small producer has to do is secure enough local contracts to maintain the business. It then becomes more of a niche market for the local producer, which can also be very lucrative. Lots of niche markets survive out there and do extreemely well. If I was a small producer, I would try to distinguish my product from Big AF, maybe in utilizing an all organic feedstock, or maybe emphasizing my local community connections, or even the nature of my feedstock source such as using WVO as opposed to using GMO crop residue, etc. A great amount of marketing leaway here. ;-) James Slayden On Sat, 7 Dec 2002, Hakan Falk wrote: Hi James, Very good, a lot in a short message. This idea about biofuel business start to be more work than I originally thought. Taking the idea of a business, does put some real sustainable demands on the thoughts. Every time I get a few moments to think about it, several new ideas pops up in my mind, nearly as frequent as the irritating pop-up ads on Internet. 1. Crops and trees give some burnable residues for BD also. 2. Good point about WVO, so a sustainable BD business need to be based on SVO. 3. I see more and more recycling plants for WVO to BD. Large Spanish interests are putting up 4 of them and are starting to pay for WVO. This supports your thoughts. 4. Social acceptance is a good one and touch very much the table (presentation) big vs. small that I still thinking about. How do you present and evaluate this kind of things. Hakan At 08:36 PM 12/6/2002 -0800, you wrote: Hi Hakan, The net energy in Cellulose based ethanol might be higher if the lingin is
[biofuel] Somebody hacked KHVH - Honolulu
http://www.khvh.com/ 1010110 1110101 1001100 1010100 1110101 1010010 110011 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Karrick LTC of Coal
Very interesting http://www.rexresearch.com/karrick/karric%7E1.htm A far superior method exists to manufacture oil from coal. It is a little-known but very attractive, proven method called Low-Temperature Carbonization (LTC). The process was perfected by Lewis C. Karrick, an oil shale technologist at the U.S. Bureau of Mines in the 1920s. LTC is a pyrolysis process that involves heating coal, shale, lignite, or any other carbonaceous material, including garbage) to about 800o F. in the absence of oxygen. Oil is thus distilled from the material, rather than burning as it would if oxygen were present. After treatment by the Karrick process, a ton of coal will yield up to a barrel of oil, 3000 cu. ft. of rich fuel gas, and 1500 lb. of solid smokeless char (semi-coke). The economics of the process are such that the oil is obtained for free! The smokeless char is an excellent substitute for coal in utility boilers, and for coking coal in steel smelters. It yields more heat than raw coal, and it can be converted to water gas. That gas can be converted to oil by the Fischer -Tropsch synthesis-process. The coal gas produced by Karrick-LTC yields more BTUs than natural gas because it contains a greater amount of combined carbon, and there is less dilution of the combustion gases with water vapor. The phenolic wastes are used by the chemical industry as feedstock for working up into plastics, etc.. The process produces no pollutants other than carbon dioxide. Electrical energy can be co-generated at minimal cost, in addition to coal products. A Karrick-LTC plant with a daily capacity of 1000 tons would produce enough steam to generate 100,000 KW-hours of electrical power at no extra cost other than the capital investment in electrical equipment and steam temperature losses in the turbines. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Lewis C.Karrick US Patents ~ Low Temperature Carbonization of Coal
patents on this page http://www.rexresearch.com/karrick2/kltcusp.htm [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
