Re: [biofuels-biz] Interesting Customer perception note
Hey Ed, Out here in Cali there might be sensitivity to it, and on that note it kinda defeats the purpose of the carbon sequestering and being a renewable. I think that securing a known feedstock will be of value for marketing purposes. I was thinking along the lines of having different 'grades' of fuel based on feedstock. It could be used very effectively in a marketing campaign. Something like the following: B100-M = Mixed feedstock source (could be animal, vegetable, SVO, or WVO, GMO and/or non-GMO) B100-V = Vegetable based feedstock (GMO or non-GMO, but not Organic) B100-O = Organic based feedstock V and O could be used together in the following manner: B100-VO = Vegetable and Organic feedstock It would be a good thing to distinguish the product from other producers as well as maybe trademarking some nifty name for the product. Although it is really a 'perception' issue, it is a great marketing tool that can be used to one's advantage. It would be difficult to convince people of the carbon sequestering of animal based BD. ;-) James On Wed, 29 Jan 2003, Neoteric Biofuels Inc wrote: James: side issue...how do people feel about the fact that much biodiesel will be coming from animal fats, especially in warm climates? Will commercial biodiesel need to be sold as veg and non-veg origin, aside from this WVO/SVO source issue, (which is silly, there is no CO sequestering advantage to new oil versus oil that spent a week in a fryer). Ed On Wednesday, January 29, 2003, at 10:43 AM, James Slayden wrote: Hola, In talking with someone recently who is interested in purchasing some biodiesel, and interesting comment came up in our email exchange. He indicated that he was more interested in biodiesel made from crude VO than that made of WVO. I was trying to convince him that the WVO option was better due to the recyclable nature of the WVO, but he insisted that the CO sequestering was better of the more recent growing cycle. I had a difficult time convincing him that it was the same but oh well. He didn't even care about the GMO feedstock issue!! I guess what this leaves me with is a customer perception problem of crude VO vs. WVO based biodiesel. I am wondering why that perception issue exists and how to overcome it in talking w/ people who are not biodiesel geeks. I know that most of the folks at the Berkley BD Co-op are religiously pro-WVO BD and will absolutely not put GMO-VO biodiesel in their vehicles. So there is the dichotomy in interest of the different feedstocks for biodiesel. Any thoughts? James Slayden Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuels-biz] Biomass-to-Fuel-Cells-Article
*Great* article, thx for the reference. First time I've ever seen anyone make even any effort to connect biofuels with fuel cells. They seem to be talking not about reforming to H2 and then passing H2 around, but onboard reforming of some fuel, preferably a sustainable one. And I say: *good*. Why are we only talking about putting H2 on board a vehicle or in a power plant? Why not carry the H2 in the form of various liquid or other fuels until the H2 is needed, and then reform the fuel? Any inefficiencies of carrying around H-C-O-whatever combinations have to be somewhat offset by the present difficulties of storing and transporting pure H2. MM On Thu, 30 Jan 2003 19:41:42 -0500, you wrote: Actually, if we want to pursue theoretical sources of renewable hydrogen, this one is my current favourite. http://www.madison.com/captimes/business/stories/41653.php Please note all caveats and disclaimers in the article, and that it is years from any chance of commercialization. I have no knowledge of the process or its champions beyond this article. Darryl McMahon 48 Tarquin Crescent, Econogics, Inc. Nepean, Ontario K2H 8J8 It's your planet. Voice: (613)784-0655 If you won't look Fax: (613)828-3199 after it, who will?http://www.econogics.com/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuels-biz] Fwd: Advance notice of price increases
Note to all list members: Prices on all items will be increasing Feb. 14th on Neoteric G3 SVO kits, VEG-Therm heaters and other items. We wish to give these list members max. opportunity to order before the price increases take effect. Example: current G3 SVO kit price is $199 US (about the same as Euros) and will be increased to $249. VEG-Therm heaters, currently $59, will be increasing to $79. Other items will see similar increases. Also , just a note that I have had a lot of folks emailing wanting quotes - You can generate quotes on line by going to the buy now links, and get a quote with shipping in a number of currencies, and only then do you decide if you want to: - complete the purchase on line, - take a 5% discount for ordering via international money order - or back out of the system without purchasing. (We'll be changing the buy now buttons to get a quote, or purchase now ..something like that) Thank you for your terrific support to date, and we will look forward to serving you in the near future...and thanks to list moderators! (also please feel free to forward to other lists if appropriate) Edward Beggs Neoteric Biofuels Inc. http://www.biofuels.ca Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Taxed To DEATH
At 09:31 Tuesday, you wrote: Currently here, we are paying silly amounts for our fuel, on average $1.30 (USD) for a litre of dino-diesel and $1.27 for unleaded. As an example, my company has applied for a licence to make its own biodiesel for our 4 VW Caddy vans. Not a problem we were told by Customs and Exciseas long as you pay the government $0.76 in tax per litre used alone!. ..But don't worry folks...I'm going to be running my van on biodiesel once I've got the hang of making it!! Stuff the government! I understand though that the vegi-diesel still smells of french fries (or whatever the feed stock came from). You may need to deoderize the biodiesel. Are electric cars treated the same? You might consider heating your company spaces with the heat given out by a vegi-diesel run genset used to charge up your electric cars/vans? Often time, an end run is more effective than butting heads with the likes of one's elected tyrants. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: CFL incandescent bulbs -- was: [biofuel] RE:californians 50%
Check out IKEA! Better price than Costco! - Original Message - From: James Slayden [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 7:22 AM Subject: Re: CFL incandescent bulbs -- was: [biofuel] RE:californians 50% I just recently got a pack of 5 CF 60W replacements (twist type) at Costco for ~$9, which would mean they're about $2 bucks a pop. Not bad methinnks. They also had a 3 pack of 100W replactments for the same. What I am still searching for is a good priced Full Spectrum 100W replacement CF. They are quite expensive right now at ~$20 a pop. Don't want to get SAD in the wintertime. James Slayden On Wed, 29 Jan 2003, MH wrote: Mark wrote: CF bulb prices are plummeting. 3 for $10 at home depot The last time I looked was last year about this time. Darn, thats a good price!!! I heard last year the next generation CFL bulbs where coming out thus explaining the plummeting prices I'd guess. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT HGTV Dream Home Giveaway Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] American Ship of State has been hi-jacked
We dont have a good energy policy, and local government are not all properly trained. Innovation vs. Realtiy Our solar carport had a big setback in a public hearing, not from the people. Participants all agreed and even expressed their support and willingness to follow suit if they could see the first solar project built in their city. The nays are from the city planning department, 4 commisioners didn't like to have gas station or carport pops up with solar system. And no matter we are going to sell BioDiesel at pumps and electric station for EV. They do not realize the importance to build more facilities to provide alternative energy. One of them said if we mentioned about how supportive Santa Monica City is, he is going to throw up! We are proposing to use Galvanized Steel for the structure and these people who never built any solar related projects told us to paint it red to match the main building. And add stucco to make it look nicer, it's their athestically or professionally decision. For the city planners. They are the watchdogs for the city etc. For the builder, Solar system must operate in cool temperature and the galvanized silver gray of the steel structure is reflective and can fend off excessive heat. Not the red or royal paint which trapped the heat. Their request is going to do harm or decrease the efficiency/performance of the solar panels. And the prepainted steel get rusty or unsightly in a few year, and need a lot of maintainces! Galvanized steel can last for at least 10 years! One lady thinks the solar roof is not a pretty sight for the city, so they want the post red and they want those decorative stucco. we have this cantilevers single-Post carport, the columns are supporting the entire roof and solar system. And they want us to use the same decorative pipe + stucco ? Those decorative columns which they asked us to copy from. They are decorative column for the front corridor. You stunned at hearing people telling you are ruining the landscape or making unwanted proposals. GAPs! Even in the same meeting hall, you can find the stubborn unti-progress or anti-new technology officials. Who declared they are for the people, by the people to deny the plan, unless we paint it red and adding stucco. If you had experiences on solar system, then maybe we won't have such a hard time. Because they didn't have any in either Solar or Bio-Diesel, they decided to make a big noice on the color and presentation of the structure. A simple steel structure is a simple structure, so we want to make it a prefabricated simple structure to save money. So what? The solar panels are still very expensive, to make it available. We have to make it a rust-resistance and a solid structure. But again, that is the government! Those people who are not interested in alternative energy are in power, we will have to fight and appeal to the city council. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 1:52 PM Subject: [biofuel] American Ship of State has been hi-jacked --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, studio53 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'd have to agree wholeheartedly. I love this country like I love life, but the original idea was for government to serve the people, taking on a background role. Now, the government is a business like any other corporation, except it's a poorly run disgrace controlling and directing everyone's lives. It is a criminal enterprise. The original premise was that the People have inalienable Rights to Life, Liberty and pursuit of Happiness. Government was instituted to protect those Rights from infringements, using a very limitted range of Authorities. Current occupants of elected Offices are working well outside of their legal Authorities. Now that we have both expressed dissident views on an International list, can you make a prediction as to how long it will take for the Storm Troopers to break down our doors and spirit us away? According to the Homeland Security Act, we are now terrorists, and can be held indefinitely without charges ever being filed against us. We just lost our Right to a Trial by Jury, and to be able to question Witnesses against us. Motie Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Taxed To DEATH
You should understand that there are other universes of discourse than the cosy one you have chosen to inhabit. - Original Message - From: Damian J. Anderson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 9:53 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Taxed To DEATH I was in Costco over the weekend and looked at the price of corn oil. It was about $3.20 a gallon. If nature, or nature's God, has provided us with a vast supply of naturally occurring petroleum, it seems like it does not make economic sense to make bio fuels, even if you had no tax at all. Even with the tax, gasoline is only $1.50 a gallon, and that is in the middle of a crisis of the world oil supply because of the prospect of another Gulf War and also the political crisis in Venezuela. So, if there were no tax on gasoline, or a lot less, it would be even more favorable than biofuels. It does not seem to make sense to do the chemistry yourself when it has already been done for you, and there are vast untapped resources of it sitting in the ground. If we ever run out of petroleum, we can always still grow corn and turn it into corn oil or alcohol to burn. But for now, both are economically a bad idea. The economics of bio diesel are far more attactive in tropical countries like India, where non-edible and waste processed vegetable oil is available at a landed cost of Rs. 12- Rs. 20/kg (US $ 0.84 - US $ 1.39/US Gallon assuming Rs. 48 =1 US $ and sp. gravity of oil/ bio diesel at 0.88). With roughly 1:1 (weight to weight ) conversion of the oil to bio diesel, the cost of bio diesel at US $ 0.84 -US $ 1.39/US Gallon is still far cheaper than petro diesel. If you factor in the 10% by weight of glycerine available as a by product of bio diesel manufacture, the economics are even more attractive. Refined glycerine sells for Rs 80/kg or Rs. 8/kg of bio deisel produced. Assuming cost of glycerine extraction/purification @ Rs. 2/kg, this translates into a hefty credit of US $ 0.13/ kg of bio diesel produced or US $ 0.56/ US Gallon, resulting in net cost of which puts it in a different league altogether. This of course does not take taxes on bio diesel inot account. But since the country as a whole is migrating to a VAT system avoiding cascading rates, this may add a maximum of 10% ad valorem to the cost of bio diesel. Petro diesel in India costs Rs. 21/lt or more in various states (US $ 1.66/US Gallon). And this petro diesel is also cross-subsidised by gasoline which hawks at Rs. 34/lt (US $ 2.68/ US Gallon) This price regime is likely to change in the near future with the total dismantling of the Administered Pricing Mechanism, which will make bio diesel eeven more attractive. The issue , therefore, is one of logistics in collection and distribution on which a number of groups here are working and not of economics at least in this neck of the woods. Krishnaswamy Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: Hydrrogen Cars (was: Re: Democracy was [biofuel] Taxed To DEATH)
- Original Message - From: Darryl McMahon [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 12:18 AM Subject: Hydrrogen Cars (was: Re: Democracy was [biofuel] Taxed To DEATH) Presumably he is referring to fuel cells, and not combustion. So we are actually talking about fuel cell electric vehicles (FCEVs). As you stated, hydrogen is not a biofuel, nor is it likely to be produced from biofuels in any significant quantity. Today, most is derived from petroleum production, and the next most likely major source is electrolysis (requiring electricity). Darryl McMahon (snip) I beg to disagree. Gasification of biomass is one of the most promising routes for conversion of solar energy to hydrogen with photosynthetic intermediation. Atmospheric gasification yields about 5% (w/w) per kg of biomass and another 4% (w/w) per kg of biomass can be generaed by steam reforming carbon monoxide in the producer gas. The cost of hydrogen in situ so generated is an order of magnitude cheaper than that from electrolysis. Krishnaswamy o Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] ffa content and titraion
I was hanging around with the owner of the junk food plant that gives us WVO today, and he asked me how to go about setting up in-house ffa testing. Turns out that industrial food production facilities have to control for FFA in their fryer oil (by law), so he spends $50 per test to have ffa testing done 20 times a month by a lab or something like that. OUCH. I had previously told him about crude titration and of course he got really excited about saving themselves some money. Could somebody give me some info on how the results (in ml) of the crude titration that we do for biodiesel making correlate with ffa content (in percent). Obviously in his case the labware would be a lot nicer than what I use. By the way the regulations say that their oil has to be under .8% ffa I believe. When I do a (very crude) titration on the WVO I get from them, it tests to anywhere from 1 to 1.5 ml- and I'm doing this to oil that has sat and gotten old and nasty in drums on the guy's lot for a year and has all kinds of nasty problems, and I'm also using phenol red instead of phenolpthaleine or other indicators so there's some things that are 'off' in my own testing procedure, which is why I keep calling it crude. (I'm of course aware of what the proper way to do it is). thanks, Mark Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Change of Pace
Over here on our west coast, they started increasing the registration fee for honda insights. Why?.. the logic was that they weren't paying 'their share' of road taxes on the fuel. They deemed that since they were using the road when driving, they were not using as much gas as everyone else, and therefore, were not paying as much tax. I can see how the English gov't might see people using fuels to drive around , committing wear and tear on the roads but not paying the tax used to repair those roads, as being a 'problem'. I guess it is how you look at it. I don't see that it should be a big issue. Why doesn't the gov't just install a tax on collecting the waste oil? Use the same per gallon tax as on diesel. Message: 2 Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 12:33:50 -0500 From: studio53 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Change of Pace Regarding the air car, I don't even know why we are talking about a car that doesn't even exist and in my opinion will not exist in our future. Might as well be using the bandwidth to talk about a vehicle that runs on MGP. (Magnetic Gravity Pulse). Very, very far into the future. Germany has an excellent government consciousness about bio-diesel, yet go across over to England, and you are back in the stone age. The English police are actually arresting people and charging fines for innovative and creative alternatives to fossil fuel. That alone tells you how far the English government is up Big Oil's a$$. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] I thought demand was huge and margins were high for GM's SUVs?
http://biz.yahoo.com/rb/030130/autos_gm_incentives_1.html Reuters GM Ratchets Up Incentives on SUVs, Vans Thursday January 30, 10:06 am ET DETROIT (Reuters) - General Motors Corp. (NYSE:GM - News) said on Thursday it was ratcheting up consumer incentives on many of its most popular sport utility vehicles and vans, escalating Detroit's price war. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] GWBush.com -- Good Bumper Stickers
Hi All, Thought I'd pass this site along in case you still have a spot somewhere between your rear window and your bumper for another sticker. I especially like the one that says: Regieme change starts at home and, I wasn't using my civil liberties anyway. www.gwbush.com Happy motoring! Ryan Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] ffa content and titration
Mark writes: Could somebody give me some info on how the results (in ml) of the crude titration that we do for biodiesel making correlate with ffa content (in percent). I depends on the molecular weight of the FFA, which of course depends on the type of oil. One gram of NaOH will neutralize about 7 g of oleic acid, which would be a typical FFA for the oils we use. So if your oil titrates at 1 ml using 0.1% NaOH solution, you have 7 g of oleic acid per liter (say 920 g) of oil, or 0.77% FFA. If you had some rancid rapeseed oil, high in free erucic acid (higher molecular weight), each ml of NaOH solution in your titration would be 0.92% FFA. If coconut with free lauric acid (lower mol wt.), 1 ml equals only 0.54% FFA. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] 1% diesel
I seem to remember a report that Chrysler was going to manufacture a Jeep Liberty with a diesel for 2004. Should get between 25-35 MPG at least? Wait until the US dinodiesel catches up with with the rest of the world and we get the good stuff, in 2006 or 2007 (I can't remember which.) I think everyone will introduce a common rail at that point. -Original Message- From: Crabb, David [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 11:28 AM To: 'biofuel@yahoogroups.com' Subject: RE: [biofuel] 1% diesel I think it is because it is extra stinky here, and no one likes to get that stink on their hands.. because you carry that for a while. People are lazy and dont want to put the gloves on.. heh Also, you cant go to every station and get diesel.. so that limits the ability to go driving about late at night. for those that live near interstates.. it could be a reasonable option. Also the sootiness is a turnoff for many people. I guess it is ok to just pour puke that you cant see in a gas car.. but a little soot on hard acceleration is bad in a more fuel efficient car.. go figure. The fact that you can only get a VW jetta etc.. for the common man.. means that servicing is more difficult. not that many VW dealers.. etc. You could get the Mercedes.. but then.. thats more money than most poeple can spend. You *could* get a pickup if you had to have a local model.. but then you are now getting 18mpg. and you sound like the local trash truck. It would be nice if one of the domestics could get a deal with VW and get the diesel option for a motor in a car. I would think that DiamlerChrysler would now have the expertise to transplant one of their diesels locally. a 50mpg Dodge Neon would be a nice selling point. Tricia Liu wrote I was told that the reason only 1% American drives Diesel car is because the Diesel is $1.67/gallon while gasoline is $1.60/gallon. And not available in all gas stations. But in Europe, Diesel is far more cheaper than Gasoline for about how much cheaper? Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] seperating glyc and FFA
follow-up on my question, see answers below Who can help me on this??? From one of the one-liter batches I'm trying, I tried to split the soap again into FFA. So the deposits of the trans-esterification, I seperated, and mixed with H2SO4. both phases, or just the glycerine phase that had already settled out using an NaOH catalyst? It's not clear (to me at least) if you have even produced biodiesel here. If you already have a biodiesel phase and a glycerine phase, obviously separated, subsequent extraction of FFA should involve acidifying ONLY the glycerine phase. I first separated de Biodiesel from the deposits (glycerine+soap+NaOH+...) Only the lower phase was used to add acid. The oil source was WVO, animal fat based. (French fries) For the BD proces, I used 5g NaOH. Now in advance I calculated I would need 3,5 ml of my 95% h2so4 to get the mixture to ph7. I now already added 10ml of H2SO4, and still no sign of seperating glycerine. Here's where I get confused. If you've successfully made biodiesel, you should have already seen glycerine separation after the NaOH step. Perhaps you're confusing the separation of glycerine with the separation of FFA, which requires acid rather than base.
RE: [biofuel] air car
I am sure the transmission loss factor vs gas formulation cost has been beaten to death in other discussions of EVs. But just to make is more simple. assume your Solar panel is sitting on your roof. there wont be too much of a transmission losses. so all day long, you can compress air in a tank at home. when you get home, you can transfer this to your car slowly overnight, adding more if needed overnight cheaply. I suppose you could add a bank of batteries at home, instead of a an air tank. But then you would lose 10% getting the juice into the batteries and 10% getting it out. I would rather have one powerplant with one pollution source.. than have 1,000 guys at home with generators. New pollution control technology only has to happen once.. not 1,000 times. I also wouldnt have to worry abou Jimbos taking pollution controls *off* their generator,.. to save a few dollars. you know it would happen Also, I don't want a generator running in my garage at night..pyew.. nor out back. I certainly dont want my neighbors running them... i wonder how happy people would be happy when one of the muffers starts to go. Man.. now i have to go bother to fill up gas cans again.. i thought that was a reason to buy this stupid air-car in the first place. Of course.. these vehicle.. if existed.. would not be everything to everyone. No current car is now, why do potential alternatives have to be. EV.. etc.. Someone complained what if i have to drive 100 miles or something.. use a second car.. or rent one. If you have to do it every week.. buy a different car. Message: 4 Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 22:54:13 -0500 From: Martin Klingensmith [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Taxed To DEATH - AirCar You need to take into account the efficiency losses: Hydro/Nuclear/solar/wind/etc Electric generator - transmission lines - electric motor - mechanical air compressor - pipes - air motor - mechanical transmission - rubber wheels I don't know how efficient this would be, but I'm guessing below 4% (if my guess makes a difference) It could be made better if you used an internal combustion generator, but you still have a lot of conversions: Crops - oil/alcohol - IC engine - mechanical air compressor ... etc Crops would include energy used to plant and maintain the crop as well. I guess the above process would be about the same with a hydrocarbon fuel. However if you're going to use an IC engine anyway, what's wrong with an IC/electric hybrid? Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Homemade inverters.
Howdy all, Can anyone tell me where to find a design for an inverter (12V DC to 120V AC 60Hz) that can be built by someone with reasonably good electrical technician skills? Thanks. Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Please help with Yahoo problem
Thanks Keith and MM, It took a while but, your instructions took care of the problem except on one of the 27 lists I belong to, and I'll just rejoin that one. kris --- murdoch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have one or two different profiles, and one or two different email addresses to which mail can be sent. So, is it possible that somehow (if only by yahoo doing this without your knowledge) your profile or associated email address for this group might have been set to something different than it is set to for your other email addresses? I.e.: don't just check to see that the groups are set to individual emails, but also check that the profiles and email addresses are what you have been maintaining all along in those other groups (perhaps the same as this one, perhaps not). I believe all this can be checked under my groups but you may have to dig somewhat deeper, looking at this group first to see what the profile/addresses are, and then checking the other groups. I am skeptical that this will work, but it has come up once or twice for me. MM On Tue, 28 Jan 2003 07:59:42 -0800 (PST), you wrote: I belong to 27 yahoo mailing lists but, for the last 4-5 days this is the only list that is coming through to my mailbox. And every time I try to post to a list my mail bounces back. I've been to Yahoo Groups 3 times to try and find the appropriate link to click on but, I can't find anything about bouncing e-mail. I've also checked every one of the lists at Yahoo Groups and they are a filled out correctly for Individual E-mail. Help! kris __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Please help with Yahoo problem
Hey Kris, long time no see. ;-) Greg H. - Original Message - From: Kris Book [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 10:31 Subject: Re: [biofuel] Please help with Yahoo problem Thanks Keith and MM, It took a while but, your instructions took care of the problem except on one of the 27 lists I belong to, and I'll just rejoin that one. kris --- murdoch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have one or two different profiles, and one or two different email addresses to which mail can be sent. So, is it possible that somehow (if only by yahoo doing this without your knowledge) your profile or associated email address for this group might have been set to something different than it is set to for your other email addresses? I.e.: don't just check to see that the groups are set to individual emails, but also check that the profiles and email addresses are what you have been maintaining all along in those other groups (perhaps the same as this one, perhaps not). I believe all this can be checked under my groups but you may have to dig somewhat deeper, looking at this group first to see what the profile/addresses are, and then checking the other groups. I am skeptical that this will work, but it has come up once or twice for me. MM On Tue, 28 Jan 2003 07:59:42 -0800 (PST), you wrote: I belong to 27 yahoo mailing lists but, for the last 4-5 days this is the only list that is coming through to my mailbox. And every time I try to post to a list my mail bounces back. I've been to Yahoo Groups 3 times to try and find the appropriate link to click on but, I can't find anything about bouncing e-mail. I've also checked every one of the lists at Yahoo Groups and they are a filled out correctly for Individual E-mail. Help! kris __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: Democracy was [biofuel] Taxed To DEATH
I am also very worried by the current trends in the US. I think most of use sense this worrisome trend in USA Democracy which can be listened to using RealPlayer (aka RealAudio) to get a little background that we so seldom here anymore from the dominant privatized US media stations -- Prospects for Democracy by Professor Noam Chomsky Capital Rules by Professor Noam Chomsky available in the Chomsky Archive http://www.zmag.org/chomsky/multimedia.cfm If some are interested in the other side of free speech in USA Democracy you might listen in with RealPlayer (aka RealAudio) January 28, 2003 U.S. Sold Chemical Weapons to Iraq Congressman Jim McDermott - State of the Union - Oil It's The Oil and Nothing But the Oil January 29, 2003 Scott Ritter, former UN weapons inspector ON BUSH'S STATE OF THE UNION POINT COUNTER POINT on Bush's State of the Union address http://www.webactive.com/pacifica/peacewatch/archive.html September 3, 2002 U.S. Blocks All Action On Renewable Energy At Earth Summit In Johannesburg Best-Selling Author Paul Hawken On Renewable Energy, Sustainable Living, And Reigning In Multinational Corporations Alternatives To Global Warming: Vegetable-Based 'Biodiesel' Fuel, And Actor Ed Begley Jr., On Electric Cars http://www.webactive.com/webactive/pacifica/demnow/dn20020903.html Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Democracy
Hakan, What I said was exactly this: If it is a government of the people, by the people, for the people, then it is a democracy. A society in which the people do not have the option to change their government if they don't like it is not a democracy. What democracies are there in the Middle East? I would count Israel and Turkey, but the others are for the most part desert satrapies. For you to suggest that I consider Nazi Germany and Fascist Italy to be democratic is outright dishonest. It seems to me that many European greens are more like watermelons: green on the outside, red on the inside. One of the first things that Hitler did on coming to power was to ensure his position as an absolute ruler, and within six months, had begun the process of building concentration camps. He was more of the variety of one man, one vote, one time. That is not democracy. If the people cannot recall an evil ruler through elections it is not a democracy. One reason that Hitler lost the war was that he ran out of oil to fuel his tanks. Towards the end when General George S. Patton was striking out across Europe to liberate the nations under the tyranny of Hitler, including the concentration camp at Aushwitz, he saw that the Germans had to resort to ox-carts because they had no fuel. To its credit, the USA fought tyranny and defended freedom for the community of civilized nations in several conflicts in the twentieth century: World War I, World War II, Korea, Vietnam, the Cold War, the Gulf War, and so on. It sacrificed blood and treasure for the sake of liberty, the liberty that ensures that you can criticize it today, rather than live under the Gestapo, or the KGB, or the iron fist of one tyrant or another. Was Sweden able or willing to defend itself, or would you be happy to live under Marxist Leninist or Nazi or Fascist totalitarianism? Are you willing to pay the price today for liberty, or are you happy to have someone else pay the bill and you stand on the sidelines and snipe? We have a word for that: cowardice. Whether we like it or not, the availability of oil for fuel for transportation, and petroleum for petrochemicals is a matter of national security and survival for modern society, until such time as we have viable sustainable economical alternatives. Perhaps the reason George Bush did not invest in biofuels research is that he is taking advice from the Department of Energy who suggested hydrogen as a good long term alternative to fossil fuels. It requires energy to produce biofuels. The question one must consider is how much energy does it take to produce a gallon of corn oil, or ethanol. One must analyze the energy requirements to produce these fuels. When ethanol was first produced as a fuel, it required more energy to produce a gallon of ethanol than was contained in a gallon of ethanol. The ratio is better now, on the order of 34% more energy in the fuel than it took to produce it. You can find some interesting facts on the subject at: http://www.ethanol.org/ But make no mistake, whoever provides biofuels will have to be a big business, as you need to create a vast infrastructure to deliver whatever kind of fuel that vehicles run on, unless you are planning on someone else's tax dollars to fund it. If you have to drive 300 miles to the nearest filling station when you have a vehicle with a range of 200 miles, you are out of luck. That is unless you plan to use it as a hippy hobbyist grow-your-own kind of fuel to avoid taxation, and voice your protest to the evil capitalists. ;-) I can't think of a system better than capitalism. Marxism was tried and failed miserably. Free markets of free people seems like the only sensible way to go. And then free trade blocks between free peoples is the next logical step. Even the Chinese and the Russians are becoming capitalists. I came to this group because I saw something online about biofuels and I was curious about it, but it seems to me that for many of you, it is an article of religion, and anyone who questions your dogmas is anathema, and deserves to be shunned. Hence I was called a troll, people ridiculed my name, and your hatred for America and all it stands for shows through. I have stayed on the topic of the group. Thank God for Tony Blair, and the other seven European heads of state who had the courage to stand side by side with George Bush today and say what must be said in his support and of the need to oppose Saddam Hussein before he hands his chemical or biological weapons to Al Qaida. http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,482-559907,00.html Europe and America must stand united The Times, London January 30, 2003 Damian Anderson On Thu, 30 Jan 2003, Hakan Falk wrote: Dear Damian, I see that you are one of the few people that realize that Nazi Germany and Fascist Italy was democracies, until the state of war kicked in some
[biofuel] A joke I had to pass on....
Three Texas surgeons were arguing as to which had the greatest skill. The first began: Three years ago, I reattached seven fingers on a pianist. He went on to give a recital for the Queen of England. The second replied: That's nothing. I attended a man in a car accident. All his arms and legs were severed from his body. Two years after I re-attached them, he won three gold medals for field events in the Olympics. The third said: A few years back, I attended to a cowboy. He was high on cocaine and alcohol when he rode his horse head-on into a Santa Fe freight train traveling at 100 miles per hour. All I had to work with was the horse's ass and a ten-gallon hat. Last year he became president of the United States. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] ffa content and titration
I thought I remember seeing this posted on JTF. On Thu, 30 Jan 2003, Ken Provost wrote: Mark writes: Could somebody give me some info on how the results (in ml) of the crude titration that we do for biodiesel making correlate with ffa content (in percent). I depends on the molecular weight of the FFA, which of course depends on the type of oil. One gram of NaOH will neutralize about 7 g of oleic acid, which would be a typical FFA for the oils we use. So if your oil titrates at 1 ml using 0.1% NaOH solution, you have 7 g of oleic acid per liter (say 920 g) of oil, or 0.77% FFA. If you had some rancid rapeseed oil, high in free erucic acid (higher molecular weight), each ml of NaOH solution in your titration would be 0.92% FFA. If coconut with free lauric acid (lower mol wt.), 1 ml equals only 0.54% FFA. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: Democracy was [biofuel] Taxed To DEATH
I listened to all of them, At 12:14 PM 1/30/2003 -0600, you wrote: I am also very worried by the current trends in the US. I think most of use sense this worrisome trend in USA Democracy which can be listened to using RealPlayer (aka RealAudio) to get a little background that we so seldom here anymore from the dominant privatized US media stations -- Prospects for Democracy by Professor Noam Chomsky Capital Rules by Professor Noam Chomsky available in the Chomsky Archive http://www.zmag.org/chomsky/multimedia.cfm Very interesting, humorous and telling. Recommend it. If some are interested in the other side of free speech in USA Democracy you might listen in with RealPlayer (aka RealAudio) January 28, 2003 U.S. Sold Chemical Weapons to Iraq Congressman Jim McDermott - State of the Union - Oil It's The Oil and Nothing But the Oil January 29, 2003 Scott Ritter, former UN weapons inspector ON BUSH'S STATE OF THE UNION POINT COUNTER POINT on Bush's State of the Union address http://www.webactive.com/pacifica/peacewatch/archive.html Read about it many years ago, was at that time not really a secret. You can imagine Saddam Husseins surprise, that after he helped US against Iran, asked and thought that he got permission to occupy Kuweit, US mounted a war against him. All of this is documented and verified. September 3, 2002 U.S. Blocks All Action On Renewable Energy At Earth Summit In Johannesburg Best-Selling Author Paul Hawken On Renewable Energy, Sustainable Living, And Reigning In Multinational Corporations Alternatives To Global Warming: Vegetable-Based 'Biodiesel' Fuel, And Actor Ed Begley Jr., On Electric Cars http://www.webactive.com/webactive/pacifica/demnow/dn20020903.html Missed this, but are not surprised. Hakan Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] 1% diesel
How is diesel for the environment? My impression is that diesel powered vehicles emit a noxious stench which is not present with gasoline powered vehicles. And in Maryland where I live, we have strict rules about vehicle emissions so that if the car emits too much in hydrocarbons or carbon monoxide, it is not legal to drive. You are required to have the vehicle tested for emissions, now once every two years, in order to be able to drive in on the roads legally. http://mva.state.md.us/MVAProg/VEIP/default.htm There is also emissions testing on diesel vehicles. I guess with biodiesel, you can have the smell of fish and chips, or doughnuts, or some such cooking smell, which beats the smell of hydrogen sulphide. Ethanol burns clean, but gasohol blends tend to be of the higher octane variety and more expensive. And gasoline contains more BTUs per gallon than ethanol. Damian Anderson On Thu, 30 Jan 2003, Ryan Morgan, Aerials Express wrote: I seem to remember a report that Chrysler was going to manufacture a Jeep Liberty with a diesel for 2004. Should get between 25-35 MPG at least? Wait until the US dinodiesel catches up with with the rest of the world and we get the good stuff, in 2006 or 2007 (I can't remember which.) I think everyone will introduce a common rail at that point. -Original Message- From: Crabb, David [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 11:28 AM To: 'biofuel@yahoogroups.com' Subject: RE: [biofuel] 1% diesel I think it is because it is extra stinky here, and no one likes to get that stink on their hands.. because you carry that for a while. People are lazy and dont want to put the gloves on.. heh Also, you cant go to every station and get diesel.. so that limits the ability to go driving about late at night. for those that live near interstates.. it could be a reasonable option. Also the sootiness is a turnoff for many people. I guess it is ok to just pour puke that you cant see in a gas car.. but a little soot on hard acceleration is bad in a more fuel efficient car.. go figure. The fact that you can only get a VW jetta etc.. for the common man.. means that servicing is more difficult. not that many VW dealers.. etc. You could get the Mercedes.. but then.. thats more money than most poeple can spend. You *could* get a pickup if you had to have a local model.. but then you are now getting 18mpg. and you sound like the local trash truck. It would be nice if one of the domestics could get a deal with VW and get the diesel option for a motor in a car. I would think that DiamlerChrysler would now have the expertise to transplant one of their diesels locally. a 50mpg Dodge Neon would be a nice selling point. Tricia Liu wrote I was told that the reason only 1% American drives Diesel car is because the Diesel is $1.67/gallon while gasoline is $1.60/gallon. And not available in all gas stations. But in Europe, Diesel is far more cheaper than Gasoline for about how much cheaper? Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Damian J. Anderson [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.unification.net Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Waste Oil Safety-Rocket Stove
Hi Eddie, What about a fan running off the exhaust Turbo stove? regards, dD biofuel@yahoogroups.com wrote: I am making a Rocket Stove water heater with waste oil kicker.. booster. I am wondering about the safety of the waste oil.. the unseen contimants. I am wondering if vegetable oil would be safer. I've used a crude preheater..just a can at the rocket elbow..dripping a spider web of waste oil into the rocket chamber.. really kicks up the heat..and don't smoke too bad.. but worried about undesirable side effects. Also.. to hit it with a steady stream of air at the Rocket magazine ..compressed air..really kicks up the heat... I was thinking of using a CPU fan for this...running off an old car battery maybe. thanks, David Weddle [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] [OT]Re: Hydrogen Cars
krishnaswamy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I beg to disagree. Gasification of biomass is one of the most promising routes for conversion of solar energy to hydrogen with photosynthetic intermediation. Atmospheric gasification yields about 5% (w/w) per kg of biomass and another 4% (w/w) per kg of biomass can be generaed by steam reforming carbon monoxide in the producer gas. The cost of hydrogen in situ so generated is an order of magnitude cheaper than that from electrolysis. It may be promising (see algal production of hydrogen in previous note), but it is not where we get hydrogen from today, or likely in the foreseeable future. We also have to consider the amount of land being used and whether or not it would be more practical to simply produce biofuels instead to power the vehicles instead of producing, liquifying, transporting and dispensing hydrogen plus the cost of producing the fuel cells to use it. Personally, I would love to see FCEVs, if the economics made any sense. I drive an electric car now. Zero emissions - on the road - today. It's only drawback (other than initial cost due to very low production quantities - in this case, 1) is the limited range between charges inherent in affordable battery technologies. I am addressing that with my next vehicle - a (bio)diesel-electric, grid-chargeable, hybrid. I expect to spend considerably less than US$1,200,000,000.00 dollars developing it. No fossil fuels, independence from imported oil, zero-emissions in pure EV mode (should be most urban trips), and zero net greenhouse gas emissions when using biodiesel. I would still prefer a better, affordable battery, but that is beyond my personal RD budget. Those with a better idea are free to pursue it. When you have your hydrogen-from- non-fossil-fuel sources powered car on the road (and I have mine running), then we can get together and compare notes based on reality. BTW, the electricity for the car will come from a combination of hydro (common base source here), and wind power (funded via green tags). Biodiesel will likely be homebrew from WVO. I expect any claims of fossil-fuel-free hydrogen powered cars will provide substantive proof of its non-fossil source. Darryl McMahon 48 Tarquin Crescent, Econogics, Inc. Nepean, Ontario K2H 8J8 It's your planet. Voice: (613)784-0655 If you won't look Fax: (613)828-3199 after it, who will?http://www.econogics.com/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] [OT] Hydrogen cars (more)
Actually, if we want to pursue theoretical sources of renewable hydrogen, this one is my current favourite. http://www.madison.com/captimes/business/stories/41653.php Please note all caveats and disclaimers in the article, and that it is years from any chance of commercialization. I have no knowledge of the process or its champions beyond this article. Darryl McMahon 48 Tarquin Crescent, Econogics, Inc. Nepean, Ontario K2H 8J8 It's your planet. Voice: (613)784-0655 If you won't look Fax: (613)828-3199 after it, who will?http://www.econogics.com/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] What's wrong with this picture?
I think this symbolizes a pretty powerful message from Ford. (the Model U concept car) Look at what we could produce if we truly were an environmentally responsible organization. But we won't. And now back to our regular programming - the Ex-Files... Explorer Excursion Exxon Extinction Darryl McMahon 48 Tarquin Crescent, Econogics, Inc. Nepean, Ontario K2H 8J8 It's your planet. Voice: (613)784-0655 If you won't look Fax: (613)828-3199 after it, who will?http://www.econogics.com/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Biomass-to-Fuel-Cells-Article
*Great* article, thx for the reference. First time I've ever seen anyone make even any effort to connect biofuels with fuel cells. They seem to be talking not about reforming to H2 and then passing H2 around, but onboard reforming of some fuel, preferably a sustainable one. And I say: *good*. Why are we only talking about putting H2 on board a vehicle or in a power plant? Why not carry the H2 in the form of various liquid or other fuels until the H2 is needed, and then reform the fuel? Any inefficiencies of carrying around H-C-O-whatever combinations have to be somewhat offset by the present difficulties of storing and transporting pure H2. MM On Thu, 30 Jan 2003 19:41:42 -0500, you wrote: Actually, if we want to pursue theoretical sources of renewable hydrogen, this one is my current favourite. http://www.madison.com/captimes/business/stories/41653.php Please note all caveats and disclaimers in the article, and that it is years from any chance of commercialization. I have no knowledge of the process or its champions beyond this article. Darryl McMahon 48 Tarquin Crescent, Econogics, Inc. Nepean, Ontario K2H 8J8 It's your planet. Voice: (613)784-0655 If you won't look Fax: (613)828-3199 after it, who will?http://www.econogics.com/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] What's wrong with this picture?
keep the diesels, though. they work great on biodiesel and vegetable oil. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology: http://www.green-trust.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Darryl McMahon [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 8:06 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] What's wrong with this picture? I think this symbolizes a pretty powerful message from Ford. (the Model U concept car) Look at what we could produce if we truly were an environmentally responsible organization. But we won't. And now back to our regular programming - the Ex-Files... Explorer Excursion Exxon Extinction Darryl McMahon 48 Tarquin Crescent, Econogics, Inc. Nepean, Ontario K2H 8J8 It's your planet. Voice: (613)784-0655 If you won't look Fax: (613)828-3199 after it, who will?http://www.econogics.com/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] What's wrong with this picture?
A hydrogen ICE hybrid? Cripes!!! If these guys are going to go to all the time, trouble and effort, why not just get it right in the first place with existing technologies and infrastructure..perhaps a hybrid diesel/biodiesel that would get 90+ mpg rather than screwing with hydrogen ICE and still only getting 45? Imagine what could be done with something along the lines of a Lupo, already 78 mpg, combined with hybrid electric. But actually, I was thinking about all the fine print...a full volume of hype under the guise of green. Next time someone on this list comes over or back from Europe, would you bring a Lupo along as carry on baggage? Todd - Original Message - From: Greg and April [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 11:23 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] What's wrong with this picture? Besides the fact that it is all plastic and look like it's CG? Greg H. - Original Message - From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 21:11 Subject: [biofuel] What's wrong with this picture? http://www.motorcities.com/contents/03A6E465919257.html Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] What's wrong with this picture?
Darryl, You forgot one And now back to our regular programming - the Ex-Files... Explorer Excursion Exxon Extinction Excrement fred Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] home heating
hi can anyone give me advice on running a home heating system on used cooking oil, the system that i have burns kerosene at the moment , it can also burn diesel,the boiler is an external appliance, it has an output of 150,000 btus? YOURS DAVE DOOLEY _ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] [OT]Re: Hydrogen Cars
Well, I think it is still off-topic, but others are proceeding, so Damian wrote: So I would suppose that fuel cells and hydrogen would come under renewable energy. Only if the hydrogen came from a renewable source. Most comes from petroleum production, not a renewable resource (in any reasonable timeframe anyway). President Bush said A single chemical reaction between hydrogen and oxygen generates energy, which can be used to power a car -- producing only water, not exhaust fumes. That would suggest to me that he is talking about burning hydrogen in oxygen to produce water and heat energy. 2H2 + O2 = 2H2O Perhaps a new design of an internal combustion engine could be made to burn hydrogen. The advantage of a hydrogen powered car would be that it would not pollute, and it would relieve the developed world of our dependency on foreign oil. The engineering challenges would be considerable, but a nation that can send a man to the moon and back again may well be able do this, if it has the will. BMW has been working for years on burning hydrogen in an internal combustion engine. Still have some bugs to work out, including efficiency issues. Key point in their RD so far is that it still produces exhaust fumes. That is because it does not use pure oxygen, but rather atmospheric air. That is approximately 80% nitrogen, so NOx emissions remain significant. Also, the combustion reaction involving atmospheric air is very complex involving many elements, compounds and reactions. So, I maintain that if we are looking for: A single chemical reaction between hydrogen and oxygen generates energy, which can be used to power a car -- producing only water, not exhaust fumes. then that means the fuel cell reaction of pure oxygen and hydrogen to produce water and energy (mostly heat) - no extraneous elements or reactions. Here is a Department of Energy web site on hydrogen and electricity generation in the same plant: http://www.energy.gov/HQPress/releases02/novpr/pr02240_v.htm Yes, but the source of the hydrogen is not stated, so should not be assumed to be renewable. Here is a DOE document on a hydrogen based economy: http://www.eren.doe.gov/hydrogenandfuelcells/pdfs/vision_doc.pdf The document talks about two methods of generating hydrogen from fossil fuels, namely steam reforming and partial oxidation. It can also be produced by electrolysis of water, and also by a pyrolysis process of biomass. Yes, the fossil fuel sources are the typical production methods today. Please note that this document shows that over 95% of hydrogen production in the U.S. currently comes from fossil fuels - not renewable. Electrolysis is less common in commercial quantities. Document also indicates that production from biomass sources, including pyrolysis is still not at commercial stage. Another biological alternative uses the photsynthesis of green algae to produce hydrogen: http://plantbio.berkeley.edu/profiles/newProfiles/melis.html This article shows algal production is still at research stage. Algal production of hydrogen so far appears to have very low efficiencies and would require very large areas for solar collection (to grow the algae) for the amount of energy harvested. I have not seen a comparison of that to growing oil-plant stocks to harvest vegetable oil, but my suspicion is that it would be more efficient to grow canola and use biodiesel as the transport fuel than harvesting hydrogen from algae, liquifying it, transporting it and dispensing hydrogen into vehicles. Certainly algal production of hydrogen is not at a commercial stage. Another way to produce hydrogen would be using nuclear power: http://neri.ne.doe.gov/abstracts/02-160.pdf Also not renewable and not a biofuel. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Fwd: Advance notice of price increases
Note to all list members: Prices on all items will be increasing Feb. 14th on Neoteric G3 SVO kits, VEG-Therm heaters and other items. We wish to give these list members max. opportunity to order before the price increases take effect. Example: current G3 SVO kit price is $199 US (about the same as Euros) and will be increased to $249. VEG-Therm heaters, currently $59, will be increasing to $79. Other items will see similar increases. Also , just a note that I have had a lot of folks emailing wanting quotes - You can generate quotes on line by going to the buy now links, and get a quote with shipping in a number of currencies, and only then do you decide if you want to: - complete the purchase on line, - take a 5% discount for ordering via international money order - or back out of the system without purchasing. (We'll be changing the buy now buttons to get a quote, or purchase now ..something like that) Thank you for your terrific support to date, and we will look forward to serving you in the near future...and thanks to list moderators! (also please feel free to forward to other lists if appropriate) Edward Beggs Neoteric Biofuels Inc. http://www.biofuels.ca Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Homemade inverters.
Go to google.com and type in inverter plans. Good Luck PM -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 9:20 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] Homemade inverters. Howdy all, Can anyone tell me where to find a design for an inverter (12V DC to 120V AC 60Hz) that can be built by someone with reasonably good electrical technician skills? Thanks. Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com Biofuel at Journey to Forever: HYPERLINK http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlhttp://journeytoforever.org/bi ofuel.html Biofuels list archives: HYPERLINK http://archive.nnytech.net/http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the HYPERLINK http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/Yahoo! Terms of Service. --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.419 / Virus Database: 235 - Release Date: 11/13/02 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.419 / Virus Database: 235 - Release Date: 11/13/02 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Democracy
Damian J. Anderson wrote: snip It seems to me that many European greens are more like watermelons: green on the outside, red on the inside. Cute! But don't they have a right to be red on the inside in a democracy? To its credit, the USA fought tyranny and defended freedom for the community of civilized nations in several conflicts in the twentieth century: World War I, World War II, Korea, Vietnam, the Cold War, the Gulf War, and so on. It sacrificed blood and treasure for the sake of liberty, the liberty that ensures that you can criticize it today, rather than live under the Gestapo, or the KGB, or the iron fist of one tyrant or another. Your patriotism is showing. We are not as lily white in all of this as you are making us sound. Was Sweden able or willing to defend itself, or would you be happy to live under Marxist Leninist or Nazi or Fascist totalitarianism? Are you willing to pay the price today for liberty, or are you happy to have someone else pay the bill and you stand on the sidelines and snipe? We have a word for that: cowardice. It is not cowardice for a friend to point out the blindness in another friend's perception. We should be careful not to characterize criticism as mindless anti-Americanism, when it may, in fact, be carefully considered. None of us like to hear other people complain about us, but when our friends complain, we would do well to listen. Whether we like it or not, the availability of oil for fuel for transportation, and petroleum for petrochemicals is a matter of national security and survival for modern society, until such time as we have viable sustainable economical alternatives. We could have had viable, sustainable alternatives many years ago if only we'd had some national leadership in this area. (Starting with conservation, ending depletion allowances and other silly subsidies, taking a hard look at city planning, food production and distribution, as well as investing in renewable resources thirty years ago would have put us way ahead of the game by now.) We are crisis oriented, and we love our cars, so we tend to become complacent when not faced with a direct threat. When we ARE threatened, we tend to lash out with armed forces, and while there is no doubt that our servicemen and women are brave and professional, armed services are a blunt instrument, at best. Perhaps the reason George Bush did not invest in biofuels research is that he is taking advice from the Department of Energy who suggested hydrogen as a good long term alternative to fossil fuels. I think it's a red herring, and I'm a hydrogen enthusiast. It requires energy to produce biofuels. It takes energy to produce hydrogen too, although hydrogen can be produced microbially from sugar in an anaerobic environment, in a process that is much less energy intensive than electrolysis. One has to wonder, however, how smart it is to waste sugar making hydrogen when ethanol is so much easier. (Had to get that biofuel angle in somehow!) Mr. Bush and his advisors are looking for hydrogen from natural gas. We're better off to burn the natural gas directly than to reform it into hydrogen. The question one must consider is how much energy does it take to produce a gallon of corn oil, or ethanol. Go to the Journey to Forever web site and you'll find quite a bit of information on this topic. Much of it debunks Pimental and others of his ilk. Judging from the tone of your post, I'm suspicious you've been reading only one side of the story. But make no mistake, whoever provides biofuels will have to be a big business, as you need to create a vast infrastructure to deliver whatever kind of fuel that vehicles run on, unless you are planning on someone else's tax dollars to fund it. That kind of mentality is part of the problem. Energy issues should be dealt with primarily on a local level. Start learning how to use less, and the problems become much easier to solve. Some things, like car pooling or walking, are ridiculously simple and effective. Some of them will improve health, strength, stamina and longevity, too! If you have to drive 300 miles to the nearest filling station when you have a vehicle with a range of 200 miles, you are out of luck. That is unless you plan to use it as a hippy hobbyist grow-your-own kind of fuel to avoid taxation, and voice your protest to the evil capitalists. ;-) And your point is??? I can't think of a system better than capitalism. Marxism was tried and failed miserably. Free markets of free people seems like the only sensible way to go. And then free trade blocks between free peoples is the next logical step. Even the Chinese and the Russians are becoming capitalists. Live in someone else's country for awhile and see how wonderful and even handed American free trade policy is. You'd be singing a different tune if your job ended because of American
RE: [biofuel] Homemade inverters.
Well, I haven't seen any good plans yet, I've been looking for a long time. I can say, however; that you should definitely not try to use this plan: http://www.i4at.org/lib2/inverter.htm It will probably waste more energy than it converts for you. I would like to try to come up with a good plan for a modified sine wave converter. --- Martin Klingensmith infoarchive.net [archive.nnytech.net] nnytech.net -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 12:20 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] Homemade inverters. Howdy all, Can anyone tell me where to find a design for an inverter (12V DC to 120V AC 60Hz) that can be built by someone with reasonably good electrical technician skills? Thanks. Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
