[biofuel] Re: Engine conversion
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Harmon Seaver wrote: > > >--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Harmon Seaver wrote: > > > > > > >--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, venkat gasn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > HELLOW MR FRIEND, > > > > > YES U CAN CONVERT YOUR PETROL ENGINES TO DIESEL INJECTION MODE, > > > > > BUT LIFE OF PISTON ,RINGS, SLEEVES WILL BE LESS, > > > > > DONT WOREY ABOUT COMPRESION RATIOS AS WOOD GAS WORKES ON > > > >LOWCOMPRESION RATIOS. > > > > > > > > Woodgas does not work well in low-compression engines. Yes, you can > > > >get them to run, but woodgas works best in diesel engines, the higher > > > >compression the better. Even in a spark ignition engine, you really > > > >need to raise the compression to at least 13:1 if you want any sort of > > > >decent power off the woodgas. > > > > > > Other way round actually. > > > > > > >I think if you check the archives of the gasification list, you'll > >find that this has been discussed fairly thoroughly, and so far no one > >has had a problem with knocking when using woodgas in a high > >compression diesel engine. The consensus seems to be that there is no > >problem. Indeed, it would be hard to see why there would be since > >woodgas has so much less inherent engergy than diesel fuel, and burns > >relatively slowly. > >In a gasoline engine you need to both raise the compression *and* > >greatly advance the spark to burn woodgas effectively. Even so you'll > >be lucky to get 50% of the rated power of the engine on gasoline. > > Check the refs I gave you Harmon. I'm also a member of the GAS list > at Crest, in fact I think you asked me for the address when you > wanted to join, didn't you? I read the FAO ref you gave, but I think you need to reread it yourself. They clearly state that a gasoline engine needs to have the compression increased and the spark advanced if you want to efficiently run it on woodgas. And while the intro to that section talks about lowering a diesel engines compression, it also seems pretty clear that the person writing that intro didn't really understand the issues. But as I said, go look thru the gasification list archives, you'll find pretty much a consensus that diesels are the preferred engine for woodgas, and people aren't lowering the CR. You also have to understand that anytime someone starts experimenting with engines/alternative fuels, and the like, the tuning the engine for that fuel is a first step, which usually involves advancing the ignition until it starts to knock (or has trouble starting), then backing off a bit. I'm sure any decent mechanic won't have any trouble getting a diesel to run well on woodgas, but when some group like FAO puts out a blanket statement that you have to lower the compression on a diesel, or it will knock, that's a bit silly. Which diesel? Turboed or non? What was the CR? Did they try adjusting the timing? How about the wastegate on the turbo? Did they have an exhaust gas temp gauge on it? How sure were they that it was actually detonating -- after all, most diesels sound like they knock. There are many other factors -- like how did they feed the woodgas into the engine? Just doing that the wrong way can cause considerable knocking and actual damage to the engine. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Petroleum's Role in Hemp Prohibition
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Harmon Seaver wrote: > > >Kris said: > > > > > Ater doing a little reading, I must adjust my statement > > > slightly but, Harmon you are way off base here. > > > >Hardly. It's pretty clear you have no personal knowledge of this > >stuff and have been reading the wrong stuff. > > > > > > In this country both hemp and marijuana come from the > > > cannabis sativa plant. > > > >Nope, wrong again -- well, partially right, but most of the > >marijuana grown in north america these days is a hybred of cannabis > >sativa and cannabis indica. > > Not a hybrid, just a cross. Cannabis indica and cannabis sativa are > synonyms, the same plant according to different classification > systems. I think there are plenty of botanists who would disagree with that. > > >And a lot of it is pure indica. Forty years > >ago it was all sativa, and that is the species native to this > >hemisphere, but the problem was that the marijuana seeds (sativa) > > Marijuana is just the Mexican name for it, you can't differentiate > between "marijuana" and "hemp", it's all cannabis. > Sorry, I'm just using the term "hemp" as a shorthand for "industrial hemp", and "pot" or "marijuana" to signify the stuff you smoke. I'm well aware that marijuana is the Spanish term for it. > >were > >all from Mexico and further south, and wouldn't mature here, would not > >flower. The hemp plant, OTOH, does mature, flower and go to seed, in the > >northern US and even Canada and Alaska. > > The hemp plant in question, industrial hemp (there are others), is a > variety of cannabis, or many varieties, bred for local adaptation in > various regions, bred initially for yield and for fibre qualities, > and later for low THC content as well. > > Both low- and high-THC hemp (cannabis) covers a wide range: "Native > to Central Asia, and long cultivated in Asia, Europe, and China. Now > a widespread tropical, temperate and subarctic cultivar and waif." > (James Duke) > > > And while hemp is taken from the > > > female stem as well as the male, the male's fibers are much > > > stronger, so are more highly valued. > > "Hemp varieties tested in Ontario to date have all been of European > origin. They come in two types: Dioecious, which have male and female > flower parts on separate plants, and Monoecious, which have male and > female flower parts on the same plant. A third type of cultivar, > known as Female Predominant, has 85 to 90 percent female plants. It > is believed that this type can produce a higher yield of bast fibres." > http://www.gov.on.ca/OMAFRA/english/crops/facts/hempprod.htm > Hemp Production > > >I can't find the link > > > but, I read that high quality Manila rope comes exclusively > > > from male plants. > > Manila hemp is a different species, not cannabis, it's Musa textilis (abaca). > > >You may be right, but that's irrelevant. > > :-) > > > > Like Keith said, there is 0.3% THC in hemp fiber and the > > > drug czar claimed on TV the other day that today's > > > marijuana has up to 30%. > > That's right, industrial varieties have virtually zilch THC, and the > latest psychoactive strains do get that high (sorry!). I think > breeders in the US have achieved similar results to those in Holland > and Europe, but I know less about the US. All the same species > though, just different varieties, purpose-bred. > > >Well, I think he's full of BS, as usual, > > Oh really. That's a bit rich. My "BS" is here: > http://eesc.orst.edu/agcomwebfile/EdMat/SB681/whole2.html > Hold on there Keith, I was talking about the drug czar, not you, and, in fact, I'm saying exactly the same thing, there is no THC to speak of in hemp. (snip) > There is no market for broadleaf, male or female. Maybe not where you live, but I'll guarantee you that there's plenty of people in the northern midwest who smoke mostly leaf. They grow their own, outdoors, and it the season isn't long enough for it to flower. > Mostly what's sold > does contain some leaf, but it's mostly buds, with or without seeds. > Sensimilla (no seeds) consists of the unfertilized flowers of female > plants. Males are identified and removed before the females flower. > This forces the females to produce more resin instead of seeds - the > flowers contain MUCH more THC th
[biofuel] Re: Engine conversion
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Harmon Seaver wrote: > > >--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, venkat gasn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > HELLOW MR FRIEND, > > > YES U CAN CONVERT YOUR PETROL ENGINES TO DIESEL INJECTION MODE, > > > BUT LIFE OF PISTON ,RINGS, SLEEVES WILL BE LESS, > > > DONT WOREY ABOUT COMPRESION RATIOS AS WOOD GAS WORKES ON > >LOWCOMPRESION RATIOS. > > > > Woodgas does not work well in low-compression engines. Yes, you can > >get them to run, but woodgas works best in diesel engines, the higher > >compression the better. Even in a spark ignition engine, you really > >need to raise the compression to at least 13:1 if you want any sort of > >decent power off the woodgas. > > Other way round actually. > I think if you check the archives of the gasification list, you'll find that this has been discussed fairly thoroughly, and so far no one has had a problem with knocking when using woodgas in a high compression diesel engine. The consensus seems to be that there is no problem. Indeed, it would be hard to see why there would be since woodgas has so much less inherent engergy than diesel fuel, and burns relatively slowly. In a gasoline engine you need to both raise the compression *and* greatly advance the spark to burn woodgas effectively. Even so you'll be lucky to get 50% of the rated power of the engine on gasoline. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Petroleum's Role in Hemp Prohibition
Kris said: > Ater doing a little reading, I must adjust my statement > slightly but, Harmon you are way off base here. Hardly. It's pretty clear you have no personal knowledge of this stuff and have been reading the wrong stuff. > > In this country both hemp and marijuana come from the > cannabis sativa plant. Nope, wrong again -- well, partially right, but most of the marijuana grown in north america these days is a hybred of cannabis sativa and cannabis indica. And a lot of it is pure indica. Forty years ago it was all sativa, and that is the species native to this hemisphere, but the problem was that the marijuana seeds (sativa) were all from Mexico and further south, and wouldn't mature here, would not flower. The hemp plant, OTOH, does mature, flower and go to seed, in the northern US and even Canada and Alaska. And while hemp is taken from the > female stem as well as the male, the male's fibers are much > stronger, so are more highly valued. I can't find the link > but, I read that high quality Manila rope comes exclusively > from male plants. You may be right, but that's irrelevant. > > Like Keith said, there is 0.3% THC in hemp fiber and the > drug czar claimed on TV the other day that today's > marijuana has up to 30%. Well, I think he's full of BS, as usual, more like a max of 13% with most being around 5-6%. > How high do you think you'll get > on something that is 90 times weaker that what people are > smoking. You can't sell male plant for any price, only an > idiot would smoke something that will only give you a > headache instead of a high. Now here's where you are getting seriously silly, and I'm having a seriously hard time even following your logic. Where do you get the idea you "can't sell male plant for any price"? Back in the '60's when everybody was planting the seeds they got from the Mexican pot, the Panama Red, the Columbian Gold, etc. that they bought, nobody had ever heard of sinsemilla, and, more importantly, since in the northern US those plants never flowered anyway, so almost all the "homegrown" anybody ever had was just leaf, not bud -- and nobody whatsoever ever discriminated between male and female plants. People smoked and sold male plants the same as the female. Kris, I've smoked a whole lot of male plants -- there is no significant difference, there is probably more difference between top leaves and bottom leaves than between male and female. Furthermore, at one point we were living on a farm in WI, and back at the edge of a neighbor's pig pasture we discovered this absolutely huge patch of 12-15 foot tall *female* cannabis plants -- and, they were even in flower and had the huge buds like you see in the pictures now in High Times. So, of course, thinking we were in hippy heaven, we dried some of the bud and smoked it -- and smoked it, and smoked it. Nada, zilch. You'd have died from carbon monoxide before you got a buzz off that stuff. That's hemp. It used to grow wild all over WI and most other states before these morons in gov't and their scumbag pig goons got going and their sicko "War on Some Drugs" revved up. Hey, don't just take my word for it, check out http://www.erowid.org/plants/cannabis/cannabis_info16.shtml Or, as I suggested before, crank up your usenet newsreader and post your theory to alt.drugs.pot.cultivation and see what kind of response you'll get. Although, as I said previously too, most of those sinsemilla growers claim they throw *all* the leaves away and only smoke the bud, but the truthful ones will tell you they all smoke the male plants they weed out and there ain't nothin a bit wrong with it. Hemp is hemp and pot is pot and male/female has absolutely nothing to do with it. -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Engine conversion
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, "Ozan Tezer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hello, > I produce biodiesel and plan to convert a car engine that works with gas to > diesel. I plan to use diesel injectors, instead of spark plugs. I know the > compression ratio is different, but I wonder if it works or not. Any idea > about it..? > That won't work, but you can try running one as a dual fuel engine, where you start the engine on gasoline, get it warmed up well, then switch to biodiesel. Many older tractors had this ability, although they ran only used kerosene, not diesel. I have a garden tractor which I could have ordered, when I bought it new, this feature, with a dual tank and the other mods, which include a hotter sparkplug (necessay to reduce plug fouling) and a bigger mainjet in the carb. Also the ignition was advanced. If you try this, you would also want to heat the fuel line for the biodiesel so as to thin the viscosity a lot, and it might work with biodiesel as well as kerosene because of the higher cetane rating of the biodiesel. But it also might pollute more. All in all, you'd probably be alot better off to pull the gasoline engine and replace it with a diesel. I was actually going to try running my Toyota pickup on biodiesel, even bought the dual fuel switch and fuel line heater (like people use for running SVO in a diesel) to do it with, then suddenly found myself with two good running diesel vehicles and a Kubota diesel for a stationary genset so gave up on the idea. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Engine conversion
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, venkat gasn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > HELLOW MR FRIEND, > YES U CAN CONVERT YOUR PETROL ENGINES TO DIESEL INJECTION MODE, > BUT LIFE OF PISTON ,RINGS, SLEEVES WILL BE LESS, > DONT WOREY ABOUT COMPRESION RATIOS AS WOOD GAS WORKES ON LOWCOMPRESION RATIOS. Woodgas does not work well in low-compression engines. Yes, you can get them to run, but woodgas works best in diesel engines, the higher compression the better. Even in a spark ignition engine, you really need to raise the compression to at least 13:1 if you want any sort of decent power off the woodgas. And he's talking about diesel fuel, not woodgas. > U CAN DO IT YOURSELF, > REGARDS, > V.GANESAN > INDIA. > OF > Ozan Tezer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:Hello, > I produce biodiesel and plan to convert a car engine that works with gas to > diesel. I plan to use diesel injectors, instead of spark plugs. I know the > compression ratio is different, but I wonder if it works or not. Any idea > about it..? > > also mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > __ > Do You Yahoo!? > Sign up for SBC Yahoo! Dial - First Month Free > http://sbc.yahoo.com > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuels list archives: > http://archive.nnytech.net/ > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > Catch all the cricket action. Download Yahoo! Score tracker > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: cold weather starting
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, "Bryan Fullerton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Geez, if you need ether to start it, you need to rebuild the engine. Or, if you use much ether on a good engine, you *will* be rebuilding it sooner, not later. > kinda worn out. If you intend to use your diesel where the air is really > cold, below 15 degrees F, I would suggest that you double check your > batteries. I think most diesels have two batteries to start. since cranking Neither my '82 diesel vanagon nor my '82 diesel datsun pickup have two batteries, and they start fine. Nor do I use a plug in. heater. Make sure the glow plugs are good and use synthetic oil and you'll be okay. Most diesels *don't* have two batteries, at least not the car diesels. Some Canadian diesel pickups ran 24v systems and they have two batteries, and GM with the total crappola "diesel" engine they put in their cars for a few years had to use two batteries, and even then they wouldn't start, but those were junk design from the word go. Probably if you need all those batteries to start your vehicle, you need to buy a new starter. Just having bad bushing and or brushes in the starter can do you in. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: cold weather starting
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Michael Henry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I've actually just bought my first diesel car, and this is one of my > main concerns (as I said, I don't really know anything!) - If I go > skiing and can't plug my car in, for the day or sometimes even for a few > days, do you have tips on starting it when I want to get home? Switch to synthetic oil and you won't need to plug it in. Also make sure your glow plugs are working properly. > winter with a diesel. When I get that far, I'm also planning to mix > biodiesel with petro diesel to reduce cold weather starting problems. Is > that a good solution? People using biodiesel who live in cold climes need to add some dino-diesel or kerosene into the biodiesel to keep it from solidifying. Or they put a heater on the tank and fuel lines, just as users of SVO need to do. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Petroleum's Role in Hemp Prohibition
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Kris Book <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hemp is the term used for the male and marijuana is the
> term used to describe the female cannabis plant. There are
> many subspecies but, all females are psychoactive and all
> males are not.
Kris, this is total nonsense -- where ever did you get such a
silly idea? The leaves of the male pot plants will stone you just as
much as the leaves of the females. Growers usually kill the males only
because they don't want the females to go to seed, which reduces their
output, and because the males are rather sparsely leaved and don't
have any of the big flowers ("bud") that brings the highest price.
And the females, neither flower nor leaves, of the hemp plants do
nothing at all no matter how much of them you smoke.
If you don't believe me, try posting that comment on
alt.drugs.pot.cultivation once and see how much laughter it produces.
Of course, the purists there will tell you not to bother with the
leaves of either male *or* female, that only the bud is worthwhile,
but there are plenty of people who happily utilize the male leaves
while waiting for the females to mature.
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[biofuel] Re: Petroleum's Role in Hemp Prohibition
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Kris Book <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hemp is the term used for the male and marijuana is the > term used to describe the female cannabis plant. There are > many subspecies but, all females are psychoactive and all > males are not. > Kris, where the heck did you get this nonsense from? Psychoactivity has absolutely nothing to do with sex. Pot growers kill the male plants because they don't want them to pollenate the females, and because the males themselves don't produce any of the highly potent flowers or "bud". The leaves of the male plant will get you just as high as the leaves of the female plant. And neither the leaves nor the flowers of either male or female hemp plants will do anything for you no matter how much you smoke of it. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Stop the War!
http://www.oshkoshbygosh.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: World Peace
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "rpg" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Hope you are joking Harmon. > Thats escapism, lets work on making reality worthwhile. True reality is always worthwhile. Have you ever experienced it? Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: World Peace
Anyone interested in hearing some great indig music, check out http://www.airos.org From traditional and country to native american hip-hop, reggae, and moderne shamanic spirituality, it's all Earth based music. Love Mother Earth? Dance to her voice! Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Common roots Was: Politics
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "kirk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Harmon, my source on the 80% of modern Jewry is not Hebrew is -- > "The Jewish Encyclopaedia" > They ought to know. > Really? In the information reference world, any "encyclopedia" is considered -- at best -- a tertiary souce of information. What is their source for that figure? What is the secondary source? And, most importantly, what is the primary source? Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: World Peace
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "rpg" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > - Original Message - > From: Harmon Seaver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > "All we need is love" -- all we need is to get the UN to promote > > psilocybic mushrooms and cannabis use with all it's might. And have > > all the worlds bombers converted into spray planes to dose combatants > > with a little omniscient LSD/DMSO combo. > > Hope you are joking Harmon. > Thats escapism, lets work on making reality worthwhile. > > Regards Paul Gobert I couldn't possibly be more serious. All religion began with the use of entheobotanicals, one species imparting wisdom to the other. Plant spirits relating to monkey spirtits and visa versa. The further a religion is away from it's entheobotanical beginnings, the less true it is. biomass is the source of all true (clean) energy! biowisdom is the source of all true spirituality! flowers are the language of love! mushrooms are the language of Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] World Peace
Ah, "World Peace" -- "Peace Now" - in your lifetime! "All we need is love" -- all we need is to get the UN to promote psilocybic mushrooms and cannabis use with all it's might. And have all the worlds bombers converted into spray planes to dose combatants with a little omniscient LSD/DMSO combo. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Common roots Was: Politics
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "kirk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Ishmael was the son of Sarah's handmaiden. He is the father of non-Jewish > Semites. Isaac is the father of Jewish Semites or Hebrews. 80% of modern > Jewry is non-Semitic thus the inheritance of Palestine is somewhat a weak > claim. That's not really true. Jews, probably because of the intense persecution and therefore isolation, kept their culture and ethnic purity pretty well intact throughout the Dispora. The population of Israel may have a large portion of Jews from Europe/Russia/whatever, but they are genetically very Jewish. Even here in the US today, among non-religious Jews, there is very little intermarriage with Gentiles. OTOH, the Jews are Semites, as are the Palestinians, Jordanians, etc. Hebrew is just another dialect of the Semetic languages. I don't know what the answer is for peace in that area, unless we could start spraying the whole area with LSD once a week. As much as we dislike the methods, I think we also have to recognize that the Jews are pretty much fighting for their lives - while many Palestians may want peace, there is still a large percentage which is determined to kill all the Jews, destroy Israel, etc. Other than large doses of LSD to all, I don't see much hope for peace there. Probably the best idea the Israelis have come up with is consolidating their territory and building a large fence around it. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> 4 DVDs Free +s&p Join Now http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/jd3IAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Public Support - was Re: [biofuel] Politics
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Jesus certainly did know his politics. But what Bill has been saying > has long since become a thread through all the major religions and > all societies. Of course, just to set the facts straight - Jesus also said: "Let him who is without a sword sell his clothes and buy one." Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Sell a Home with Ease! http://us.click.yahoo.com/SrPZMC/kTmEAA/jd3IAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Our Constitution Was: Politics
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Harmon, I sympathise, but stop it now, this thread is OVER. > Ahh, sorry -- I'm reading down the list, just saw your post, and I've apparantly been responding to other messages long after your finis. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: The impression you are making Was:WHOA!! - Politics
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "fatguy1966" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Looks like that Bush Literacy thing is > working really well down there. We can tell tell how well the Bush Literacy thing is working everytime we hear Dumbass Dubbya speak. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: The impression you are making Was:WHOA!! - Politics
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "TexasTDI" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Texan's don't take no crap and aren't afraid of a fight. 30 dumb Texans > fought and won a battle in San Antonio against 3000 Mexican soldiers that > well better trained and better equipped. Hold on there -- they definitely did not win. Unless the revisionists have be messin' with them Texas schoolbooks again. They got wiped out. > That should tell you a little of a > Texan's personality. Unless you're a Texan, I don't expect you to > understand. Yes, you just told us a good bit about the Tex-ass personality. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Politics
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "TexasTDI" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Now you are really showing your ignorance. (snip) But in > my defense I happened to look at a bottle of vegetable oil in my kitchen. > The ingrediants are 100% SOYBEAN oil. Yeah, well check another brand -- the next will be 100% corn oil. Or canola, or You voted for Dubbya, most people in Iraq voted for Saddam. Flip a coin, boy -- who'se the most evil? I'll bet you there's one helluva lot of men in Iraq willing to die for Saddam -- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: converting a Kubotq
I just bought a little Kubota engine (600cc twin cyl. water-cooled diesel) and am picking it up tomorrow. Plan to use it to generate power, heat my shop, and run a hydraulic pump. Can't imagine why it would have any problem with biodiesel. Or SVO, for that matter. Guess I'll find out shortly. Also am picking up a '81 Nissan 2.2L diesel on Thursday. I'll be diesel rich! --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Kim & Garth Travis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Sorry for cross posting, but I decided to look at converting my tractor > before I look for a diesel truck. If biodiesel is not a good idea for a > fire truck, I don't see it being a good idea for the firefighter to > depend on to get to the truck. > > I have a Kubota M4700F/DT and I would like to set it up to run on WVO, > most of the time. I plan on using it not just for farm work, but to > power a generator, until I can find an appropriate diesel engine. The > tractor has a front end loader on it and I am not able to remove it. > > Has anyone ever converted a Kubota before? > > Bright Blessings, > Kim Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: DaimlerChrysler's headquarters gate barricaded by Greenpeace activists
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "girl_mark_fire" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Yup, the EF! Journal convers environmentalist direct action frontline > stories extensively. Another place to look for radical media is on > the indymedia.org sites. Indymedia was created as a respons to > mainstream media blockout of news about dissent. > There is much more of it in the Unites States than you'd ever know > from reading the regular news. The EarthFirst! Journal site is http://www.earthfirstjournal.org/efj/ and the mail address is on their homepage for subscriptions. Well worth the price. Mother Earth, EarthFirst! Love it or leave it, baby. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Our Constitution Was: Politics
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Have a heart man! Yes, I guess I really have lost heart lately. The situation in the US seems quite hopeless. As our Tex-ass friend said -- the people have spoken -- and that is what is so terribly disheartening. So very many people in the US quite willing to go murder thousands of Iraqi people so they can continue their gluttony unabated. You see all the flags waving, bumber stickers, etc. -- some saying right out, "Nuke their ass and take the gas." Sorry, but I don't think you can put the likes of Hitler out to pasture, and I sure don't see much difference between Dubbya, Asscruft, and Hitler. Sure, they haven't killed as many people yet, but give them time, they will. Even now, the horrendous numbers of people rotting away in jail for doing absolutely nothing wrong. I read in the paper last week of so about a guy here in WI recently let out on parole -- he raped and killed a little girl who came to his house trickertreating on Halloween. And he's out on parole -- while thousands of people are doing life without possibility of parole for possessing marijuana. Bizzare, eh? But that's what these sicko's like Asscruft and Dubbya and all their ilk revel in, doing the work of their god. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Politics
I used to be, unfortunately. I now consider it in many ways one of the most evil periods of my life. I was a fundamentalist, and made my living as a logger and trapper, was well thought of in my church. Better I should have sold cannibis for a living. Now I worship Mother Earth and Father Sky, the religion of my ancestors, or at least most of them, the Indian and the Celtic. --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "William Clark" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Thanks Fred.Waiting for Chris. > > Bill C. > - Original Message - > From: "fatguy1966" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2002 11:31 AM > Subject: [biofuel] Re: Politics > > > > Bill, I realize that the question was not meant for me but to > > clarify, I am Christian, Catholic to be exact. > > > > fred > > > > > > --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "William Clark" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > I was just wondering if you considered yourself to be a christian. > > I am not, > > > but , I spent most of my 45 years in the christian church. I have > > more to > > > say but will wait for clarification on this. > > > > > > Bill C. > > > - Original Message - > > > From: "TexasTDI" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2002 10:26 AM > > > Subject: Re: [biofuel] Politics > > > > > > > > > > The true American people saw the light and realized it's going to > > take a > > > > Republican run government to get anything done, and said so with > > their > > > vote. > > > > Democrats are not patriots. They don't care what happened on > > 9/11. > > > > Dash-hole tried everything he could to stop Bush from protecting > > the > > > > Homeland. Now we can finally move ahead of partisan politics and > > get > > > > something done in this country. > > > > > > > > Chris Thornton > > > > 1991 VW Jetta GL 2 Door 1.6D - 233k miles > > > > 2000 VW Golf GLS 1.9TDI 130hp/229ftlbs - 73k miles > > > > 1998 VW Passat GLS 1.8T -- FOR SALE > > > > Amsoil Synthetic Lubricants Dealer #1098500 > > > > http://texastdi.com/6/ubb.x > > > > > > > > - Original Message - > > > > From: "Ken Provost" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2002 10:17 AM > > > > Subject: Re: [biofuel] Politics > > > > > > > > > > > > > Alex writes: > > > > > > > > > > >Suggest political discussions should be directed to political > > > > > >discussion groups--unless they directly empact on the > > production, > > > > > >distribution, and sale of bidiesel. > > > > > > > > > > Balderdash! In light of the recent elections in the US, which > > gave Bush > > > > > the power to proceed, unrestrained, with his attacks on the > > environment, > > > > > the sovereignty of nations, the rights of women, the US > > Constitution, > > > > etc., > > > > > so-called "political" discussions have moved to the very TOP > > priority. > > > > > > > > > > Politics (in the broadest sense) is what we should ALL be > > discussing, > > > > > at least until some sanity can be restored. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > > > > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > > > > > > > Biofuels list archives: > > > > http://archive.nnytech.net/ > > > > > > > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > > > > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > > > Biofuels list archives: > > http://archive.nnytech.net/ > > > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: DaimlerChrysler's headquarters gate barricaded by Greenpeace activists
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "girl_mark_fire" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Wow, > > just imagine if those German Greenpeacers were in the US!!! > > > > Keith > > > > > Well, this kind of thing DOES happen over here, but you don't hear > aobut it in national media (and usually not abroad). People protest > corporate policies this way more often than you may think, it just > doesn't get news coverage. this kind of direct action protest got > some attention around WTO/Seattle protests time, and it's lost it's > appeal to the media since then, though people certainly continue to > do it, and were doing it before that time too. Bet you didn't hear > about it then either. > Yup -- best place to find out about such actions is the "EarthFirst! Journal". I can post the address and url is anyone is interested. A movement well worth supporting, BTW. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Our Constitution Was: Politics
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "csakima" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I could be wrong ... but I thought that the ORIGINAL purpose of our > Constitution WAS for limiting the extent and powers of our government > > Isn't that right ... or am I mistaken?? > No, that's exactly correct. The Constitution and Bill of Rights is meant to define the limits of government actions. Anything specifically not allowed there for them to do is forbidden. That's one aspect of why Dubbya and Asscruft are so incredibly evil -- they are doing anything and everything they can to destroy the Constitution. As did Klinton and Reno before them. And Bush Sr. Hang them all from the nearest lampost and drag their bodies thru the streets until there is nothing left. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Sell a Home with Ease! http://us.click.yahoo.com/SrPZMC/kTmEAA/jd3IAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Politics
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Kim & Garth Travis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: (snip) > I am an immigrant and not allowed to vote, but would you have actually > preferred I vote for Gore, who stood up during the debates and told > lies? Of course not -- algore is a pathological liar, he even lies about where he grew up. Remember, when you vote for the lessor of two evils, you always have evil. That's why the Goddess sent us Ralph Nader. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Plan to Sell a Home? http://us.click.yahoo.com/J2SnNA/y.lEAA/jd3IAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Politics
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "fatguy1966" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > The True American was blinded by fear of 9/11. John Ass-croft has > insisted that the rights of average Americans are un-thoughtfully > trampled and the average Joe (or more appropraitely Yusef) can be > held unconditionally and for as long as Ass-croft wants. Puh-leeze! The name is Asscruft, get it straight! Asscruft, Asscruft. And I think the first name is actually Judas. The question is: Who'se the most evil man in the world today -- Judas Asscruft or Dimwit Dubbya? Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Politics
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "TexasTDI" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > And you are a prick. > And you are a person of such limited mentality that, on another list, you started arguing that peanut oil was not a vegetable oil because peanuts are not a vegetable. It's not surprising you would vote for Bush... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> 4 DVDs Free +s&p Join Now http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/jd3IAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Politics
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "TexasTDI" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > You are defintely not a lover of this country if you want a nuke to go off > in this country. Sometimes a cancer is so bad the only hope is radical surgery and/or radiation therapy. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> 4 DVDs Free +s&p Join Now http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/jd3IAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Politics
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "TexasTDI" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > The true American people saw the light and realized it's going to take a > Republican run government to get anything done, and said so with their vote. You are so incredibly full of shit. > Democrats are not patriots. They don't care what happened on 9/11. > Dash-hole tried everything he could to stop Bush from protecting the > Homeland. Now we can finally move ahead of partisan politics and get > something done in this country. > Yeah, maybe we can now get on with the 2nd Civil War. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Politics
Right on, brother, right on! Clearly the best thing that could happen to the US at this point would be for Osama to light off one of his suitcase nukes in Washington, DC at the next state of the union address when *all* those scumbags were in town. --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "fatguy1966" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > The True American was blinded by fear of 9/11. John Ass-croft has > insisted that the rights of average Americans are un-thoughtfully > trampled and the average Joe (or more appropraitely Yusef) can be > held unconditionally and for as long as Ass-croft wants. > > Bush got all of the lapdogs he needs in congress. There will be no > partisian politics because the voice of the common man has been > silenced. Now he will do everything to trample the rights of you and > the rest of your bootlicking Republican, head nodding, assholes as > well as the rest of us who actually give a shit about the world and > our place in it. > > There is a difference between the power of government protecting the > populace and squashing some "regime" they don't like. > > Too bad you have bought the lies. The truth sucks. > > Then again, you live in Texas... That says enough, > > fred > > > > > > --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "TexasTDI" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > The true American people saw the light and realized it's going to > take a > > Republican run government to get anything done, and said so with > their vote. > > Democrats are not patriots. They don't care what happened on 9/11. > > Dash-hole tried everything he could to stop Bush from protecting the > > Homeland. Now we can finally move ahead of partisan politics and > get > > something done in this country. > > > > Chris Thornton > > 1991 VW Jetta GL 2 Door 1.6D - 233k miles > > 2000 VW Golf GLS 1.9TDI 130hp/229ftlbs - 73k miles > > 1998 VW Passat GLS 1.8T -- FOR SALE > > Amsoil Synthetic Lubricants Dealer #1098500 > > http://texastdi.com/6/ubb.x > > > > - Original Message - > > From: "Ken Provost" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2002 10:17 AM > > Subject: Re: [biofuel] Politics > > > > > > > Alex writes: > > > > > > >Suggest political discussions should be directed to political > > > >discussion groups--unless they directly empact on the production, > > > >distribution, and sale of bidiesel. > > > > > > Balderdash! In light of the recent elections in the US, which > gave Bush > > > the power to proceed, unrestrained, with his attacks on the > environment, > > > the sovereignty of nations, the rights of women, the US > Constitution, > > etc., > > > so-called "political" discussions have moved to the very TOP > priority. > > > > > > Politics (in the broadest sense) is what we should ALL be > discussing, > > > at least until some sanity can be restored. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Sell a Home with Ease! http://us.click.yahoo.com/SrPZMC/kTmEAA/jd3IAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Pure freedom?? Was: BP chief fears US will carve up Iraqi oil riches
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: (snip) Hey Vern -- can you spell "bigot"? It's pretty clear from what you write here that *you* are exactly what is wrong with this country. Ever hear of a book called "The Ugly American" -- fits you to a tee. > fair amount of freedom. I have seen in my travels many places that do not > have near so much freedom. Most of the dislike for America is simple envy > of what we have and the lack of pride in what they have made for > themselves. > > We enjoy a very high standard of living and yes we do use a lot of energy > to achieve that standard. Is it likely that it can continue with out new > energy sources, no I think not, but then if we did not use the energy we > would not pay the oil producing countries vast sums of money and they would > in turn starve as they have little else to do to make money like that. So I > guess we are bad people because we have found ways to use energy to benefit > ourselves and we spread the wealth to the producing countries to our > eternal shame. If we did not then there would be a lot less of them to hate > us, after they starved. > > Life is not always fair but it is not always the fault of the USA that > people in third world countries can not find the intelligence to deal with > there problems and make a good life for themselves. We get blamed for all > the problems and then get blamed again for not dealing with them, and when > we do try to help we get blamed for that too. It is time that the other > people of the world learn that the fight with their neighbor is there doing > and only they can stop it. If they need clean drinking water then they need > to dig a well instead of cursing the USA because we did not come and do it > for them. I think you can get the drift. > > If the people of a third world country accept tyrants like Sharone, Arafft > and Sadam as their leaders then they will enjoy the war that these leaders > use to control their people. It is not in any of their interests for peace > to break out as they would all be out of work and that is simply not in > their "play book". Then we get all the complaining that America should just > fix it, well the only way we could do that is to take all the war criminals > out and hang them and we would catch hell for that too. > Yes, we should take them all out and hang them, and we need to start right here in the good ol' USA. The last three presidents, including the present one, should be put on trial and hung. I suggest we get the UN to invade the US to depose it's evil war-mongering leader and free it's people, get rid of all it's weapons of mass destruction (including all those stockpiles of biological and chemical agents) and round up all the fundamentalists and Amerika-first types and put them in concentration camps where they won't be a threat to anyone anymore and give them a little re-education. !^> > Have a good day. > > Best regards, > Vern > > > > > "csakima" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > net> cc: >Subject: [biofuel] Pure freedom?? Was: BP chief fears US > 11/03/02 02:58 AM will carve up Iraqi oil riches > Please respond to > biofuel > > > > > > > Just my opinion but I think you and Harmon are talking about two > different types of "moving". > > I've read Harmon's comment of "not moving 'cause of no money" and I > believe he was referring simply about a "conventional" move. You know, one > that is standard without ducking bullets falsifying ID's > sneaking through Airport Security and other so-called > government-labeled "terroristic/criminal" actions. > > Oh, BTW, here in the USA we do not have "pure freedom". Oh yeah, we > profess it. On the surface .. it may even seem like it. And while it's > true, that we in the USA do not have the "conventional" type of oppression > that you see in the news (mass arresting/whipping), we DO live in a sort > of > a weird, un-said, shadow type of oppression. One that critically thinking > people soon figure out after living h
[biofuel] Re: BP chief fears US will carve up Iraqi oil riches
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > At least we agree on good music. Sorry Vern, I'm not a fan of country music -- I guess you didn't catch my drift. Which is not surprising, given your other comments here. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> 4 DVDs Free +s&p Join Now http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/jd3IAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] More evidence that Wellstone was murdered.
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2002/oct2002/well-o29.shtml -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com "War is just a racket ... something that is not what it seems to the majority of people. Only a small group knows what its about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few at the expense of the masses." --- Major General Smedley Butler, 1933 "Our overriding purpose, from the beginning through to the present day, has been world domination - that is, to build and maintain the capacity to coerce everybody else on the planet: nonviolently, if possible, and violently, if necessary. But the purpose of US foreign policy of domination is not just to make the rest of the world jump through hoops; the purpose is to faciliate our exploitation of resources." - Ramsey Clark, former US Attorney General http://www.thesunmagazine.org/bully.html Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] A Good Pre-election Read
http://www.commondreams.org/views02/1025-07.htm -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com "War is just a racket ... something that is not what it seems to the majority of people. Only a small group knows what its about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few at the expense of the masses." --- Major General Smedley Butler, 1933 "Our overriding purpose, from the beginning through to the present day, has been world domination - that is, to build and maintain the capacity to coerce everybody else on the planet: nonviolently, if possible, and violently, if necessary. But the purpose of US foreign policy of domination is not just to make the rest of the world jump through hoops; the purpose is to faciliate our exploitation of resources." - Ramsey Clark, former US Attorney General http://www.thesunmagazine.org/bully.html Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Home Selling? Try Us! http://us.click.yahoo.com/QrPZMC/iTmEAA/jd3IAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: BP chief fears US will carve up Iraqi oil riches
Ah yes, just like back in the '60s -- "love it or leave it". I remember it well. And recall Merle Haggard singing: "If you don't love, leave it, Let this song that I'm singin' Be a warning, If you're running down my country, You're walking on the fightin' side of me!" And then, of course, his wonderful "Okie from Muskogee". Wish you could hear me singing it, I do a pretty fair imitation of Merle -- not quite as good as David Allen Coe's imitation tho. Speaking of David Allen Coe, the Mysterious Rhinestone Cowboy, have you every heard his, "If That Ain't Country, I'll Kiss Your Ass.", more or less the epitome of country music? Well anyway, love it or leave it has always amused me. One of the local city councilmen was giving me the same jive in another forum. He claimed I "was about as far left as you can get." which was pretty amusing since I voted for Reagan twice and used to socialize with some pretty hardcore members of the John Birch Society. *-) As for my "conviction" and "personal responsibilty" I'm pretty sure that I've got a whole lot more of that then 99% of the Amerikan public. How many beatings from the pigs have you gotten, Vern, for your political convictions and activities? Remember those Rodney King videos? What a joke -- I was beaten far, far worse than Rodney King, on two different occasions. The first time about 40 people showed up at the police station who had witnessed it and thought I was dead. The second time it was a lot more private, back in an alley with no one around, except a friend of mine who was hiding behind some garbage cans -- said all he could hear was the thunk of the riot clubs and me screaming. Not to mention the many other nasty little incidents when I just got body slammed into the wall, or caught a flashlight upside the head. Maybe you'd like to tell us --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > No Harmon, I will not be taking up a collection for you so that you can > leave. Money is not something that stands between a man and his freedom. > Many people have migrated with only the cloths on their backs when they > felt that it was the right thing to do. Many in Europe were killed by > repressive governments that would not let them leave, shot going over the > wall as it were. So if you have any strength of conviction you would just > go, find a place that fits you and go there it is not hard because in the > USA you have the pure freedom to leave if you wish it is your right, but it > is up to you to show some strength of conviction and get on with it. No > need to sit and cry about you do not have the money. I am afraid this is a > very good example of why little gets done on the change to better energy > front, the use of cleaner energy or the general conservation of energy as > there is just no conviction or personal responsibility being taken by folks > like your self. > > > > > I'd love to. If I had the money I'd leave in a split second. Next > you'll probably say you'll start up a collection, but nothing will > ever come of it, unfortunately. > > > --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > > Hi Harmon, > > > > Given that this is the way you feel about being an American why > don't you > > move to some other country that you would feel more comfortable in. I do > > not think that there is anyone who would try to stop you and I am > sure that > > you will be welcome where you wish to go. > > > > Best regards, > > Vern > > > > > > > > > > > "Harmon Seaver" > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]To: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > manix.com> cc: > > >Subject: [biofuel] > Re: BP chief fears US will carve up Iraqi oil riches > > 11/01/02 06:18 PM > > > Please respond to > > > biofuel > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You know, the US is so disgustingly sick that I am really, > > seriously, deeply ashamed to be an American. > >Washington, DC is the very epicenter of the Axis of Evil. May the > > Goddess curse it into oblivion. > > > > > > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > > > Biofuels list archives: > > http://archive.nnytech.net/ > > > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > > To unsubscribe
[biofuel] Re: BP chief fears US will carve up Iraqi oil riches
I'd love to. If I had the money I'd leave in a split second. Next
you'll probably say you'll start up a collection, but nothing will
ever come of it, unfortunately.
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> Hi Harmon,
>
> Given that this is the way you feel about being an American why
don't you
> move to some other country that you would feel more comfortable in. I do
> not think that there is anyone who would try to stop you and I am
sure that
> you will be welcome where you wish to go.
>
> Best regards,
> Vern
>
>
>
>
> "Harmon Seaver"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]To:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> manix.com> cc:
>Subject: [biofuel]
Re: BP chief fears US will carve up Iraqi oil riches
> 11/01/02 06:18 PM
> Please respond to
> biofuel
>
>
>
>
>
>
> You know, the US is so disgustingly sick that I am really,
> seriously, deeply ashamed to be an American.
>Washington, DC is the very epicenter of the Axis of Evil. May the
> Goddess curse it into oblivion.
>
>
>
>
> Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
>
> Biofuels list archives:
> http://archive.nnytech.net/
>
> Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address.
> To unsubscribe, send an email to:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
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[biofuel] Re: BP chief fears US will carve up Iraqi oil riches
You know, the US is so disgustingly sick that I am really, seriously, deeply ashamed to be an American. Washington, DC is the very epicenter of the Axis of Evil. May the Goddess curse it into oblivion. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Plan to Sell a Home? http://us.click.yahoo.com/J2SnNA/y.lEAA/jd3IAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Grass for fuel
Yes, sweetgrass (Hierochloe odorata) is a very fragrant native praire grass that is widely used as a sacred, ceremonial plant. It's indeed burned, but usually only as incense and smudges for cleansing. --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Beth Rosen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I think that your friend is probably talking about > Switchgrass. This is a native prairie grass (in the Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Looking for a more powerful website? Try GeoCities for $8.95 per month. Register your domain name (http://your-name.com). More storage! No ads! http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info http://us.click.yahoo.com/auyVXB/KJoEAA/jd3IAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Pro-privacy, pro-environment senator dies in crash
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "motie_d" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Harmon Seaver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >Sounds a lot like somebody put an altimeter device on the planes > controls. > > Dubbya would have excellents motivation to have him killed. > > > I think this is a bit over the line! It is just as likely that the > Democrats had him killed because they were about to lose the seat. > There is absoluely NO evidence to support either theory. > It was cold, with a mixture of snow and freezing rain. Small > airplanes are known to be unsafe in these weather conditions. It was > more likely Paul's decision to keep pressing on that brought about > the crash. In 20/20 hindsight, he should have canceled his appearance > because of the bad weather for flying. > Yeah, well the plane that went looking for him shortly after the crash had no problems with the weather. And the crash investigators so far are mystified as to the cause -- it wasn't the weather, and the plane (after starting in to land, turning on the airstrip lights by radio) is turned around the other way and two miles away. It wasn't *that* small of a plane, it was a turbo fan, had de-icing equipment, etc. The more I hear about the crash investigation, the more I'm sure Dubbya had him killed. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Sell a Home with Ease! http://us.click.yahoo.com/SrPZMC/kTmEAA/jd3IAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] I Went Down to the Demonstration...
uot; Or "No >Weapons of Mass Distraction." Or "If Tim McVeigh caused 911, would we bomb >Michigan?" Or "Chez Panisse for Peace." Or "Stop The Bushit!" Or "Stay >Glued to the TV, You Hysterical, Brainwashed Fool!" One showed a concerned >looking whale with a thought balloon that said, "Save the Humans." > >It seems important to me that this many Just Plain Folks could come to >together on such short notice. It seems important that so many could >gather in indignation without any violent or rude behavior. It seems >important to me. > >But it's not important to the media. Why? > > >>>>> -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com "War is just a racket ... something that is not what it seems to the majority of people. Only a small group knows what its about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few at the expense of the masses." --- Major General Smedley Butler, 1933 "Our overriding purpose, from the beginning through to the present day, has been world domination - that is, to build and maintain the capacity to coerce everybody else on the planet: nonviolently, if possible, and violently, if necessary. But the purpose of US foreign policy of domination is not just to make the rest of the world jump through hoops; the purpose is to faciliate our exploitation of resources." - Ramsey Clark, former US Attorney General http://www.thesunmagazine.org/bully.html Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Sell a Home with Ease! http://us.click.yahoo.com/SrPZMC/kTmEAA/jd3IAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Pro-privacy, pro-environment senator dies in crash
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Steve Spence" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I'm being totally honest here. We don't kill our political adversaries in > this country. Since when? And "your" president is doing his best to get support to go invade Iraq and kill tens of thousands of totally innocent people just so he and the rest of the Enron gang can steal the Iraqi oil -- you really think offing one of his most vocal critics is outside his moral code? Moral code -- Dubbya? That's a sick joke! > > >Enough of the conspiracy theory crap please. Our president > > >has no reason to have anyone killed, and wouldn't even if he > > >had a "reason". > > Right -- dream on. It's really funny that I thought we couldn't possibly have a worse president than Clinton, and now we've got this really scary evil little retard in the Whitehouse. I can't wait to see what we get next. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Home Selling? Try Us! http://us.click.yahoo.com/QrPZMC/iTmEAA/jd3IAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Pro-privacy, pro-environment senator dies in crash
Sounds a lot like somebody put an altimeter device on the planes controls. Dubbya would have excellents motivation to have him killed. http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/Midwest/10/26/wellstone.investigation/index.html Ulman said a radio call was made from the plane -- carrying the Wellstones, three campaign aides and two pilots -- when it was 7 miles from the airport, announcing its approach. Everything appeared normal, and the pilot activated the runway lights, which is the usual procedure, he said. When the pilot didn't call regional air traffic controllers in Duluth after landing, which is the normal procedure, Ulman went up in an airplane to see if he could find the plane. He detected blue smoke about 2 miles southeast of the airport, off the usual approach path. "I flew down to it, saw the tail of the airplane. I saw the main body section on fire," he said. At the time of the crash, visibility was about 2 miles, with snow showers and a cloud ceiling of about 700 feet, he said. Once planes descend to land at Eveleth, they cannot be tracked by radar because the nearest radar station is at Duluth, 45 miles away, he said. Also see: http://news.com.com/2100-1023-963440.html?tag=fd_top -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com "War is just a racket ... something that is not what it seems to the majority of people. Only a small group knows what its about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few at the expense of the masses." --- Major General Smedley Butler, 1933 "Our overriding purpose, from the beginning through to the present day, has been world domination - that is, to build and maintain the capacity to coerce everybody else on the planet: nonviolently, if possible, and violently, if necessary. But the purpose of US foreign policy of domination is not just to make the rest of the world jump through hoops; the purpose is to faciliate our exploitation of resources." - Ramsey Clark, former US Attorney General http://www.thesunmagazine.org/bully.html Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Sell a Home with Ease! http://us.click.yahoo.com/SrPZMC/kTmEAA/jd3IAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Re:Re: [wastewatts] Frying Squad
The whole idea of taxing home made biofuels is just that ridiculous. I wonder when they'll start trying to tax the vegetables people grow in their gardens, or the firewood they cut? If I build a chair will I have to pay a tax on it? If I build a windmill to make electricity should I have to pay a tax on that energy? Also, for those who claim that there *is* a federal tax on biofuels, what is it? The US fed gasoline tax is 18.4 cents per gallon (although ethanol blended gasoline is only 13 cents), the fed diesel tax is 24.4 cents per gallon -- what is the exact tax on biodiesel and on ethanol, and on hydrogen? On Tue, Oct 15, 2002 at 05:58:45PM +1000, Graeme Vagg wrote: > Motie_d, > > OK the feds or fuzz will hunt you down if you try and beat the system by > using untaxed liquid fuels. What are the rules for burning wood chip waste > in a steam car? > > Graeme Vagg > -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com "War is just a racket ... something that is not what it seems to the majority of people. Only a small group knows what its about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few at the expense of the masses." --- Major General Smedley Butler, 1933 "Our overriding purpose, from the beginning through to the present day, has been world domination - that is, to build and maintain the capacity to coerce everybody else on the planet: nonviolently, if possible, and violently, if necessary. But the purpose of US foreign policy of domination is not just to make the rest of the world jump through hoops; the purpose is to faciliate our exploitation of resources." - Ramsey Clark, former US Attorney General http://www.thesunmagazine.org/bully.html Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Plan to Sell a Home? http://us.click.yahoo.com/J2SnNA/y.lEAA/MVfIAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] '82 westy
Ahh, just parked my new (to me) '82 VW diesel westfalia in the driveway. Zero rust, seems to start and run pretty well, although I'll be doing some work. Got a SVO heater and valve from neotric, so I need to figure out some place to mount a tank, and also start making some biodiesel. Life is good. Even the fridge seems to work. -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Save on REALTOR Fees http://us.click.yahoo.com/Xw80LD/h1ZEAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Midwest Renewable Energy Fair
Just got back from the energy fair -- totally awesome. I went up two days in a row, from now on I'll just go up and camp for the whole thing, too fantastic to miss even a minute. Really great people, really fine vibes, so many cool seminars, so many new things I've never seen before. Even the food stands were topnotch. I really learned a lot, got to talk to some very cool people, rather amazing to be talking to someone and suddenly realize you've been on their website, and was impressed by the site -- that happened twice. It's just such a lift to be surrounded for hours and hours by like minded people learning and sharing. My wife and both were just blown away. And more energy than just electric and biofuels too -- last one I went to this afternoon was on building stone circles. And yesterday the last one was a drumming circle. And Solstice and fullmoon practically coinciding. Right on! -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Free $5 Love Reading Risk Free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/3PCXaC/PfREAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Equipment Information
I've got a wheatgrass juicer that would probably work better than a meat grinder. Mines a stainless steel manually cranked, about $80 or so. And it's got a much longer tapered screw than meat grinders -- but I'd always thought you needed much more pressure than that? But it's designed so the juice comes out a hole in the side and the bulk comes out the end. It has a bolt in the end that blocks the stuff, after it builds up you have to open that a bit to allow it to escape -- whereas a meat grinder has a large end opening with plates with various sized holes according to the grind desired, and normally you have to run it thru the big holes first, then the little ones, so maybe you could modify that end plate. Used to grind up a lot of moose and deer with ours, once upon a time. Northern pike too, grind 'em up, bones and all, makes great fish cakes or soup. But anyway, I think the wheatgrass juicer is more what you'd want, if the pressure is sufficient. Somehow I thought you'd need much, much more. On Wed, Jun 12, 2002 at 02:17:51AM +0900, Keith Addison wrote: > Hi Ken > > >Keith writes: > > > > >Why not use a meat grinder? Not the home model, next size up or so, > > >something that a local butchery would use to make mince meat. If > > >there are still such things as local butcheries. that is. You might > > >be able to adapt it without too much hassle. > > > >I think the problem is that a meat grinder, like a nut grinder, is > >designed to chop up everything and push it out all together. There > >are traditional systems used in many places that are similar, but the > >oily mix after grinding is then wrapped up (in cloth, basket mat'l, etc) > >and pressed under rocks or with a car jack to separate the oil. > > They have some very cunning ways of doing that. > > >Definitely a batch process that way. A continuous oil press needs > >two very separate outlets for oil and cake. Not saying the grinders > >couldn't be modified, but that's the nature of the modification you'd > >have to do. > > Yes, I agree. I was thinking the cake could come out the end, like > the mince, and holes or slots or a screen or something or other could > be provided in the body for the oil. It's not a regular screw, the > pitch(?) shortens as it gets to the end to build up the pressure, so > something like that might work. It would need some experimenting, by > a cleverer person than me. > > Regards > > Keith > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuels list archives: > http://archive.nnytech.net/ > > Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Will You Find True Love? Will You Meet the One? Free Love Reading by phone! http://us.click.yahoo.com/Deo18C/zDLEAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Help! Any parts worth scavenging?
Well, there already are numerous companies that import used Japanese engines into the US, supposedly because their is a law in Japan that engines have to be traded out after so many miles. I don't know if it would be worth it for the other parts. If you've spent much time in junkyards, you'll notice that other than engines, tranny's, and wheels, the yard owners don't find it pays to strip out the other stuff and instead wait for someone who wants that specific part to come, and then the buyer does the work. Usually, anyway -- I've seen some exception for places that do a mail order business in some "cult" cars, like VW buses and bugs. I can't think offhand of any Japanese cars that fit the "cult car" definition, but there are people who go to Europe and buy VW buses and Unimogs and haul them back to the US. And I know of someone who goes around the US and buys up Opel GTs and strips them and ships the parts to Europe. Speaking of which -- I lusted for an Opel GT for many years, finally bought one, started working on it, and turned right around and sold it to the first sucker that came along. Ugggh, what a piece of crap. So exquisitly beautiful on the outside, so totally crude underneath. On Wed, Jun 12, 2002 at 11:05:52AM +1000, Gobert wrote: > > - Original Message - > From: "Grahams" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > From a consignment store perspective, this looks like a great new money > > making venture... importing Japan's used cars! Hmm how much to ship one > or > > those things? Also seriously though, what about other parts that may > need > > to be replaced- doors, glass, tires etc. Here of course we use used parts > > for almost everything. > > Caroline > > > Caroline I don't know about where you come from but in Australia there is a > thriving industry based on low mileage imported Japanese vehicles and > vehicle parts. Dropped my Hilux L diesel engine off for reconditioning at > one such place in Cairns this morning. > Shrink wrapped engines,gearboxes and components, all of oriental parentage, > were on display. They also sell what they call half cuts. Literaly the front > half of cars. > Had dreams at one stage of slotting a Nissan FJ20 turbo into the front of a > peugeot 504 I was restoring. Some might say sacrilidge but I think it would > be OK as the FJ20 is DOHC and 4 valve per cylinder a configuration that > Peugeot pioneered nearly a century ago. > > Regards, Paul Gobert. > > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.370 / Virus Database: 205 - Release Date: 5/06/02 > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuels list archives: > http://archive.nnytech.net/ > > Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Will You Find True Love? Will You Meet the One? Free Love Reading by phone! http://us.click.yahoo.com/Deo18C/zDLEAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] First stage foolproof method
in USA are producing biodiesel but none as small as us > > > > > (15,000). Most > > > > > > biodiesel info I have seen is geared either to large > > > capacity > > > > > production or > > > > > > individual and farm production. Once we have coverted > our > > > own > > > > > city, we will > > > > > > try to convince other small communties in Alabama and > > > > > eventually the South > > > > > > East to do the same. > > > > > > > > > > > > Somebody recently made referrence to the EPA and their > > > > > discouragement of > > > > > > small biodiesel prodution in an e-mail on this list. I > am > > > > > unfamiliar with > > > > > > this but don't doubt it. Ron Dodson (neat guy and a > very > > > > > creative thinker) > > > > > > is the head of Audubon International. That is the group > we > > > are > > > > > doing this > > > > > > with. Ron also sits on the National Biodiesel Board. We > can > > > > > probably get > > > > > > some support for this idea through him. > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill C. > > > > > > > > > > > > - Original Message - > > > > > > From: "Ken Provost" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > > To: > > > > > > Sent: Monday, June 10, 2002 6:43 PM > > > > > > Subject: Re: [biofuel] First stage foolproof method > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Next question. What problems might I encounter using > > > > > > > >anhydrous ethanol as opposed to methanol as a > reactant > > > > > > > >in this process? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I believe the first step involves mostly > esterification > > > but > > > > > also > > > > > > > some transesterification. I don't know how much > you're > > > > > > > relying on the glycerine to fall out of the reaction, > but > > > it > > > > > > > won't leave the solution as readily or as completely > when > > > > > > > ethanol is used. Also, you have to use more ethanol, > > > > > > > of course, since the molecular weight is greater than > for > > > > > > > methanol (ratio 46 to 32). If you want to continue > with > > > > > > > ethanol in the 2nd step, which is PURELY > > > transesterification, > > > > > > > the problem with the glycerine failing to separate > from > > > > > > > the biodiesel can become quite bothersome, > particularly > > > > > > > with any water in there, or free fatty acids above > 1%. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > > > > > > > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Biofuels list archives: > > > > > > > http://archive.nnytech.net/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages > to > > > the > > > > > list address. > > > > > > > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > > > > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > > > > > > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > > > > > > > > > > > Biofuels list archives: > > > > > > http://archive.nnytech.net/ > > > > > > > > > > > > Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to > the > > > list > > > > > address. > > > > > > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > > > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! > Terms of > > > > > Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > > > > > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > > > > > > > > > Biofuels list archives: > > > > > http://archive.nnytech.net/ > > > > > > > > > > Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to > the > > > list address. > > > > > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > > > > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > > > > > > > Biofuels list archives: > > > > http://archive.nnytech.net/ > > > > > > > > Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the > list > > > address. > > > > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > > > Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > > > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > > > > > Biofuels list archives: > > > http://archive.nnytech.net/ > > > > > > Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the > list address. > > > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > > > Biofuels list archives: > > http://archive.nnytech.net/ > > > > Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list > address. > > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > Service. > > > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuels list archives: > http://archive.nnytech.net/ > > Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Will You Find True Love? Will You Meet the One? Free Love Reading by phone! http://us.click.yahoo.com/Deo18C/zDLEAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Ethanol Diesel & Lubricity & dirty fuel
On Mon, Jun 10, 2002 at 02:32:04PM -0500, MH wrote: > I have some ignorant questions (I had to ask): > > I'm not sure if I'd deliberately add water to biodiesel > since BD and ethanol absorb moisture from the air. > Anyone know the saturation point of either biofuels? > And wouldn't the filters take care of this? > > A partnership with Chevron mentioned there additive > surrounded the water molecules. Doesn't Biodiesel? > As well as ethanol (although it lacks lubricity on its own)? > > With biodiesel cetane rated in the mid to upper 50 range > and looks like todays US petro-diesel in the low 40 range > how is it the German auto manufactures can technically > engineer higher quality diesel engines then the US since > BD is moisture absorbent potentially lowering cetane rating? > The reason I asked is the prominent production levels their. > > What makes US diesel fuel dirtier then the European Union's? > Sulfur -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Will You Find True Love? Will You Meet the One? Free Love Reading by phone! http://us.click.yahoo.com/Dr_ObB/zDLEAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Equipment Information
Are there plan sets available for these presses? I can't find anything on the website other than the small drawing. On Sun, Jun 09, 2002 at 11:21:00AM +, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Did you think of a manual ram press? > > Carl Bielenberg in Vermont developed one (see address below). They are easy > to build. And very cheap. > > Look into: http://www.jatropha.org/rampresses/biel-ram.htm > > Reinhard Henning > -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: EPA Ruling Backfires, Spurs Sales of Diesel Trucks
On Sun, Jun 09, 2002 at 06:36:53PM -0400, Appal Energy wrote: > Motie, > > How 'bout just makin' it simple for us poor knee jerk > reactionaries whose knees don't work as fast as they used to? > > Exactly where is it that your trucker buds are getting bled dry > and other consumers of road use fuel did not? > > Seems to me that the industry got off really light for half a > century when diesel fuel was being sold for half the price of > gasoline. Sure didn't hear any bitching then. Yes, and fuel cost is just an operating expense anyway, deductable from your income tax, so what's the problem? > > Personally? I'd like to see 9/10ths of the airline industry and > 3/5ths of the trucking industry out of a job as quickly as the > infrastructure can be altered without economic devastation. Which > would also mean one hell of a lot of other alterations around the > global economic for about 30 years. Hear, hear. One thing that really ticks me off is that the trains have been allowed to deteriorate so badly here that they are essentially unusable for commuting anymore. I live exactly 80 miles from both Milwauke and Madison, where the good jobs are -- if I could ride the train to work, I'd not mind at all commuting to either place, but no way can I handle driving that far. My dad used to ride the train 75 miles into Chicago every day. In fact, I'd really like to see private motor vehicles just banned from the city limits of every city, and only electric buses and minibus taxies allowed, plus HPVs. Electric delivery vehicles of some sort, I suppose. -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: EPA Ruling Backfires, Spurs Sales of Diesel Trucks
On Sun, Jun 09, 2002 at 10:09:16PM -, motie_d wrote: > Perhaps Sports Stadiums should be forced to raise ticket prices by > $10 each for a couple of seasons to raise funds to build a new > Stadium, Unfortunately, what seems to be happening more and more is the taxpayer is forced to pay for the new stadium (so the rich owners and rich players can get even richer) even if they detest the sports. It's fun to drive by the stadium and pray curses on the team tho. -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Equipment Information
On Sun, Jun 09, 2002 at 10:08:00AM -0700, Ken Provost wrote: > > No problem with the exercise, but the price is still pretty steep. I'm gonna > try to build a piston, cage and pressure cone after the Bielenberg design > (maybe even try to enlist his help...), and use a hydraulic jack to drive the > piston. I bet a little kit with just those three tricky parts (you supply your > own jack, lever, or whatever, and mounting brackets) could sell a couple > a year to crazy experimenters :-) > It would really be nice to find some sort of screw mechanism tho, that you could get cheaply (maybe some mil-surplus gizmo?) and built a real screw press. I was going on the same track before trying to figure out a way to make pellets from biomass. The ram presses just don't make as good a pellet, don't know how they'd do for oil, maybe it wouldn't make any difference. Anyway, what I was last thinking was building a combo log splitter/pellet press. Engine driven, of course, not just a handpump jack. I need the log splitter anyway, so maybe just build it so you put different ends on the ram, etc. One of those could be for oilseed. -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Equipment Information
On Sun, Jun 09, 2002 at 10:10:48PM +0930, David wrote: > > Perhaps you could use Grandma's old duck press to do the quantities > that you want .. by normal press standards, these are minuscule and totally > impractical. What is *normal*? I can't imagine that I would have any use for any more than 3 gal @ hr. Even [EMAIL PROTECTED] would be great. I'd absolutely love to have an oilpress that size. > > David > > At 05:14 PM 9/06/2002 +0900, you wrote: > > >Oh , actually what you call small, is actually minuscule. > > > > > >David > > > >Uh-huh? Well, if you insist, but I said "small", and that's what I > >meant. Ken's after a kitchen-size press and that might be miniscule, > >but I'd guess a lot of people would like one of those, as he says, > >including me. Not too useful for fuel production, but if you've got > >the seed anyway, nice to be able to crank out some fresh salad oil > >when you want it. > > > Snip > Yada yada yada > End Snip > >So, yes, "small". If you think that's miniscule then you're the one > >who's out of step, you and probably Carlos - savoiapower's 125kg/hr > >"Tiny Oil Mill" is massive overkill for most of our purposes. The > >Sundhara weighs 40kg, the "Tiny" press 500kg, it probably costs 7-8 > >times as much and can't be rigged by a local workshop. Industrial, as > >Jesse said, not small, certainly not "Tiny". > > > >Keith > > > > Snip > The rest of the surplus crap > End snip > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuels list archives: > http://archive.nnytech.net/ > > Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] RE (off topic) Cars+loud music,motorbikes
On Sat, Jun 08, 2002 at 11:44:24PM +0900, Keith Addison wrote: > Glad you're still with us Paul. I'm quite a good rider (I started > when I was 14), but I don't think it makes any difference anymore. I > was relieved to sell my last bike, sad but definitely relieved. It > was a 250 Kwacker twin, light, quick and supple, great for city > riding. That was in London a few years ago. It had been a while but I > quickly got into it again, soon found the despatch riders following > me rather than me them. But, every day I'd set off to work or back > again and think, Will I make it this time? Twice I was off, no > injuries or damage, but if I'd been any slower it would have been a > lot worse. Each time the car driver who did it to me just drove on, > fully aware of it, didn't give a damn. First pull out, then look, > first change lanes, then look, sheesh. It happened all the time, not > just the twice. Something weird happens to some people's > personalities when they get in a car. Bikes are great, I love them, > but not in cities, not these days, the dice are loaded against you. > Lousy way to die, or get vegetabilised. I've taken a few spills on bikes, spent a week in the hospital, 6 weeks in a wheelchair once from a bike crash, can't say that most of them were anyone's fault but my own. Speed kills, eh? I did have a big Caddilac pull out in front of me once in town, I turned to avoid it, almost made it laying the bike down but still hit his tire with my own, got catapulted up and landed on his trunk, then slid off as he drove away. I didn't quit riding them because of safety, just feel that around town especially, bicycles are a better answer (you can take a lot of shortcuts, go down one way streets the wrong way, etc.) and mostly because I need the exercise. But cars are a constant danger. They're not so bad up here, although riding on snow and ice in the Winter out in the traffic can be freaky at times, but down in Mobile I was quite unhappy to learn that I simply couldn't ride my bike to work. Drivers down there are extremely hostile to bicyclists, many give you the finger, blow their horns, try to see how close they can come to you, even on non-busy streets where they have plenty of room. My brother-in-law just made a bicycle trip from CA to FL, and said that was what happened to him all the time in the Deep South. -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: EPA Ruling Backfires, Spurs Sales of Diesel Trucks
On Sat, Jun 08, 2002 at 06:56:20AM -0500, Larry Ruebush wrote: > European countries already have a hand in the US truck market. Freightliner > and Sterling trucks are owned by Mercedes as well as Detroit Diesel. Volvo > owns Volvo trucks and Mack. Volvo makes several diesel engines in Europe that > are used in US trucks. > New Holland-Case IH farm and construction equipment are owned mainly by Fiat. > Looks to me like Europe has their hands in the mess also. Yes, but they won't bring their good stuff over here. There are no Mercedes diesel cars imported anymore, VW only sends their low-end engines (which are still nicer than anything made in the US), etc. -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Kwick Pick opens locked car doors, front doors, drawers, briefcases, padlocks, and more. On sale now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ehaLqB/Fg5DAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: EPA Ruling Backfires, Spurs Sales of Diesel Trucks
On Sat, Jun 08, 2002 at 05:43:38PM +0900, Keith Addison wrote: > Eric wrote: > > >I think I should have to disagree about the loud pipes on bikes though. > > > >We know that 4 out of 5 motorcycle accidents are the cars fault. Cars > >notice bikes with loud pipes. > > ... Yes, and it probably annoys them and makes them more aggressive. Yes, it sure does. I owned bikes most of my adult life, starting with a Harley, then a Norton 600, then a Norton 750, etc. Never thought of myself as anti-bike, but when a Harley with straight pipes is next to me in traffic, I definitely have a real strong urge to just turn the steering wheel rapidly in his direction. I doubt I'd ever hit the brakes to avoid one turning in front of me. For the last 14 years or so the only bike I've had is pretty quiet, except for my puffing and huffing. I know what you mean about these morons and their deliberate noise making, get woken up by them all the time. Same with the stereos -- we've been woken up by car stereos in the dead of Winter, when it was below zero, so I know they had their windows rolled up, yet the noise was making our house windows rattle. -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Kwick Pick opens locked car doors, front doors, drawers, briefcases, padlocks, and more. On sale now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ehaLqB/Fg5DAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: EPA Ruling Backfires, Spurs Sales of Diesel Trucks
On Sat, Jun 08, 2002 at 06:43:09AM -, motie_d wrote: > --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Harmon Seaver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > >That's irrelevant -- the fact is that their exhaust system is > illegal, and > > something needs to be done about it. It's irrelevant what the > riders want or > > what the company wants, they have no right to inflict that noise on > the rest of > > us. > > I don't believe a manufacturer can sell a motor vehicle that doesn't > meet noise limit laws. After market exhaust systems may be louder > than legal, and people are ticketted all the time for it. Check a new Harley at the dealer -- it's excessive noise, totally stock. In fact, Harley had to change it to sell bikes in Europe. Listen to a cop's Harley, quite excessive. And you won't find loud bikes getting tickets around here, that's for sure. Total straight pipes or megaphones are the norm. > > > Same with trucks - there's not the slightest rationality behind > the lack of > > adequate mufflers on trucks. > > That is also a legality issue, and truckers are ticketted often for > exceeding noise limits. Many of them figure it is cheaper to pay the > fines than it is to buy the extra fuel it takes to force the exhaust > through a muffler. I think Paul Gobert's post on the law there for stereo noise would do, impound the vehicle. Make it a point issue, take their CDL. > As a compromise, many trucks have 2 of those heavy > expensive mufflers, so they can be legal and get better mileage. Dual > exhaust systems add 200 pounds easily, and just the mufflers are $800 > each, besides the extra pipes. > > >The big problem has been that cops don't ticket Harleys because > most police > > departments also have Harleys, so somehow, they're "okay". Same > thing with > > trucks and heavy equipment -- there's this attitude that somehow > they're exempt > > from muffler laws and noise ordinances. > > I've never came across this attitude. Most Bikers and Truckers have > the attitude that most noise laws are intended for revenue > enhancement. They get that attitude from personal experience. Well, having lived on MN's Iron Range quite recently, I sure heard plenty of loud Harleys there. I can well recall sitting on a high ridge above the mine at Eveleth watching a Harley miles away, and being annoyed at how loud he was even at that distance. Around here, as I said above, there seems to be no enforcement of muffler laws, and I'm not sure why that is. We've even asked the Chief of Police why they don't, and he lied and claimed they did, as there was a news reporter present, but they couldn't -- many of the bikes don't even have to be running to get a ticket -- no muffler whatsoever. (snip) > > There is much serious discussion going on, whether it will be > cheaper for Trucking companies and engine manufacturers to pay the > fines for NOT complying, than to pay the cost to be in compliance. Make it a point issue, points against the CDL. Or impound the vehicle. > The trucking industry is also concerned about the safety > implications. If new trucks are too expensive to buy and operate, the > average age of trucks on the road will increase. Would you prefer to > share the road with a shiny new truck, or one that has over 1 Million > miles on it? As trucks get older maintainance costs increase. It's > likely that many trucks will not get all the maintainance they need, > as often as they need it, which may well result in an increase in > actual emmissions. There's no reason the emission laws can't be retroactive. BTW, if you want to see some interesting trucks, you should go down to Alabama and check out the logging trucks on the road down there, and I don't mean on the back roads, but right on the freeway, in the city of Mobile, etc. Like 40 year old 5 tons they stick an extra axle under and carrying full treelength, hanging way, way off the back, like at least 1/3 of the length. Real freaky. > > I believe a much better solution would be to raise the fuel quality. > Then even the European technology would be usable here. > Yes, well that's the point, eh? But that's something all the US truck and car industry will fight tooth and nail right along with Big Oil. They don't want to compete. -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Kwick Pick opens locked car doors, front doors, drawers, briefcases, padlocks, and more. On sale now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ehaLqB/Fg5DAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM
Re: [biofuel] Diesel Motorcycles ? the answer
Did a google for that diesel NATO bike, guess what: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_bikes.html gee, fancy that! -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: EPA Ruling Backfires, Spurs Sales of Diesel Trucks
On Fri, Jun 07, 2002 at 10:22:34PM -, motie_d wrote: > > Because that is what consumers will buy. If no one was buying Harleys > because of the noise, they would quiet them down. That's irrelevant -- the fact is that their exhaust system is illegal, and something needs to be done about it. It's irrelevant what the riders want or what the company wants, they have no right to inflict that noise on the rest of us. Same with trucks - there's not the slightest rationality behind the lack of adequate mufflers on trucks. The big problem has been that cops don't ticket Harleys because most police departments also have Harleys, so somehow, they're "okay". Same thing with trucks and heavy equipment -- there's this attitude that somehow they're exempt from muffler laws and noise ordinances. > In the trucking industry, new truck sales are skyrocketing, and so > are newer used trucks. No one wants to buy the less-efficient engines > that will require much more expensive maintainance that are being > mandated. Check out Cummins' > > http://www.cummins.com/na/pages/en/products/trucks/isx.cfm > > website and their ISX engine. I prefer the higher torque of the 600 > Signature Series, but the ISX is still pretty good at 1850 ft/lbs., > and can meet emmissions standards. Mercedes or VW can't compare or > compete. You admitted that European manufacturers can't meet our > emmissions standards using our fuel. Cummins can. > They could, they just apparantly don't want to bother, they're selling all they can build to the rest of the world, so why make a special US model? Maybe you haven't noticed, but an awful lot of the rest of the world isn't overly fond of the US, nor will bother to go out of their way for us. > > I think > > it's more a matter of a cowboy attitude than anything else -- the > macho "I'll do > > what I want and to hell with everybody else" attitude we see so > prevalent in US > > foreign policy and everything else. > > I agree that may be a portion of the problem, but I think it mostly > comes down to economics. I can't afford to pay an extra $5000 for an > engine that gets less mileage, and needs more maintainance. How many > people would buy a Mercedes, if they had to pay $5000 extra for an > engine that has less horsepower and fuel economy? The hi-tech diesels they sell outside the US don't cost $5000 more or anywhere near that, and they get much better horsepower per cc and much better fuel economy than anything built here. -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: EPA Ruling Backfires, Spurs Sales of Diesel Trucks
On Fri, Jun 07, 2002 at 07:55:11PM +, Eric Ruttan wrote: > It seems the whole of US manufacturing is blatantly unintelligent, at times > vigorously so. They seemed focused on partnerships and friend ships like > its a high school popularity contest! > > I think I should have to disagree about the loud pipes on bikes though. > > We know that 4 out of 5 motorcycle accidents are the cars fault. Cars > notice bikes with loud pipes. > I understand that loud pipes save lives. > > Would you say safety would allow loud pipes on bikes? Definitely not, in fact I think we should have open season, shoot on sight on loud bikes. Same with loud car stereos and boomboxes. Or at least an instant $200 ticket -- if you can hear the vehicle or stereo from 10' away, nail 'em. -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: EPA Ruling Backfires, Spurs Sales of Diesel Trucks
Yes, it's definitely part of their market strategy. On Fri, Jun 07, 2002 at 01:25:53PM -0600, kirk wrote: > It also keeps European mfg out of "their backyard" thereby solving the > competition issue. > The Fortune 500 are in business to make money. Any social issues they > involve themselves in go to their making money. > That is the alpha and the omega of it. > > Kirk > > -Original Message- > From: Harmon Seaver [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Friday, June 07, 2002 6:07 AM > To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: EPA Ruling Backfires, Spurs Sales of Diesel > Trucks > > > On Fri, Jun 07, 2002 at 04:26:16AM -, motie_d wrote: > > > > I'm hesitant to jump into the middle of a hot debate, but IMHO the > > reason Cummins doesn't (not can't) build better Diesel engines, is > > the same reason Mercedes VW etc. won't/don't sell them here. Very > > poor fuel! > > Yes -- but it's the US auto industry, working hand and glove with Big > Oil, > who has shot down attempts to clean up diesel fuel. Sort of a > self-fulfilling > prophecy -- because we know if Detroit started demanding cleaner fuel, it > would > be happen quickly, but we also know the incestuous relationship there where > the > oil companies help the auto companies fight off milage requirements and then > they return the favor via the clean fuel issue. > > > > > A provocative thought...Who is really more technically advanced? The > > engine builders that can only use highly refined European fuels, or > > the ones who can run on the junk fuel we have in the US? Are we maybe > > comparing Apples and Oranges? > > It's not only who is more advanced, but who is more responsible. Let's > face > it, the US auto industry has built junk for decades. Think about it -- isn't > it > much easier to build a a low-efficiency engine that burns low quality fuel > and > gets low milage than to design a hi-tech engine that takes advantage of > better > fuel? > > > Would it be a fair comparison to run a European engine on our junk > > fuel, and an American engine on European fuel? Which manufacturers > > will willingly provide warranty service for their engine if such a > > test were to be scheduled? > > > >My understanding is that the European (and Japanese) engines don't have > that > much problem running on our fuel, they just can't meet emission tests when > they > do, and why should they be expected to? Both industry and gov't knew decades > ago > that fuels needed to be cleaned up -- what are they waiting for? It should > have > been mandated 20 years ago. Instead we see the EPA blocking small biodiesel > production -- what a sick joke. High sulfur fuel and coal is responsible for > acid rain, we've known this for at least 40 years -- why is it still being > burned and clean fuels being stonewalled? Pretty sick. >I think we need much tighter controls on the trucking industry all across > the > board -- both in air pollution and noise pollution, why should they be > exempt? Same with tractors and construction equipment and boats and planes. > For > some time now I've been thinking of starting a website to solicit funds for > a > class action lawsuit against Harley-Davidson for building an unsafe > product - > unsafe in that they violate all motor vehcle muffler laws right out of the > showroom. It would be a pretty easy case to win, and the funds generated > could > then be used to hit all the other manufacturers of noisy machines. > Back in '62 a friend of mine bought a brand new BMW motorcycle. It was > so > quiet you literally couldn't tell if it was running unless you put your hand > on > it or looked at the tach. It totally amazed those of us who grew up with > Harley's (my first bike was a '47 Harley, btw). There's just no excuse for > all > those noisy, smoke belching machines -- the technolgy to build better stuff > has > been around for a long time -- why is US industry dragging it's feet? I > think > it's more a matter of a cowboy attitude than anything else -- the macho > "I'll do > what I want and to hell with everybody else" attitude we see so prevalent in > US > foreign policy and everything else. >I was out fishing the other night and some asshole in a *huge* inboard > boat > with dual V8 engines and absolutely no mufflers was cruising up and down the > river. What I would have given for a torpedo! > > > > -- > Harmon Seaver > CyberShamanix > http://www.cybershamanix.com > > B
Re: [biofuel] Diesel Motorcycles ?
The army has one now, built, I think, by Kawasaki. It's part of NATO's new program of having *all* motor vehicles run on jet fuel. I'll see if I can dig up the url. And there are several other diesel bikes, Royal Enfield used to make one, some company in India does it now. On Fri, Jun 07, 2002 at 10:13:03PM -0600, kirk wrote: > Didn't the Army have such a thing? WWII? > > -Original Message- > From: Greg and April [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Friday, June 07, 2002 8:02 PM > To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [biofuel] Diesel Motorcycles ? > > > I just had a thought, does anyone know of a motorcycle that uses diesel, > instead of gas ? > > Greg H. > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuels list archives: > http://archive.nnytech.net/ > > Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > --- > Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.363 / Virus Database: 201 - Release Date: 5/21/2002 > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.363 / Virus Database: 201 - Release Date: 5/21/2002 > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuels list archives: > http://archive.nnytech.net/ > > Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] ignition retarding
On Fri, Jun 07, 2002 at 09:18:41PM +0900, Keith Addison wrote: > > > >Why not leave the timing alone, and add a catalytic converter? > > Yes, you can do that, or both. Catalytic converters aren't too cheap > though, AFAIK. But people say their motors run better on biod with > the injection timing slightly retarded. > Maybe. It might make sense if we had good supplies of BD all over, and I suppose someone who makes their own and only drives that car locally would be okay, but the minute you start burning dinodiesel again on a trip, you'll be putting a lot more pollution than saved before -- and more visible pollution to boot, giving more ammo for the anti-diesel crowd. When BD becomes omnipresent, I'd expect we'll see engines built just for it that will far exceed what we know today in many respects. -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: EPA Ruling Backfires, Spurs Sales of Diesel Trucks
On Fri, Jun 07, 2002 at 04:26:16AM -, motie_d wrote: > > I'm hesitant to jump into the middle of a hot debate, but IMHO the > reason Cummins doesn't (not can't) build better Diesel engines, is > the same reason Mercedes VW etc. won't/don't sell them here. Very > poor fuel! Yes -- but it's the US auto industry, working hand and glove with Big Oil, who has shot down attempts to clean up diesel fuel. Sort of a self-fulfilling prophecy -- because we know if Detroit started demanding cleaner fuel, it would be happen quickly, but we also know the incestuous relationship there where the oil companies help the auto companies fight off milage requirements and then they return the favor via the clean fuel issue. > > A provocative thought...Who is really more technically advanced? The > engine builders that can only use highly refined European fuels, or > the ones who can run on the junk fuel we have in the US? Are we maybe > comparing Apples and Oranges? It's not only who is more advanced, but who is more responsible. Let's face it, the US auto industry has built junk for decades. Think about it -- isn't it much easier to build a a low-efficiency engine that burns low quality fuel and gets low milage than to design a hi-tech engine that takes advantage of better fuel? > Would it be a fair comparison to run a European engine on our junk > fuel, and an American engine on European fuel? Which manufacturers > will willingly provide warranty service for their engine if such a > test were to be scheduled? > My understanding is that the European (and Japanese) engines don't have that much problem running on our fuel, they just can't meet emission tests when they do, and why should they be expected to? Both industry and gov't knew decades ago that fuels needed to be cleaned up -- what are they waiting for? It should have been mandated 20 years ago. Instead we see the EPA blocking small biodiesel production -- what a sick joke. High sulfur fuel and coal is responsible for acid rain, we've known this for at least 40 years -- why is it still being burned and clean fuels being stonewalled? Pretty sick. I think we need much tighter controls on the trucking industry all across the board -- both in air pollution and noise pollution, why should they be exempt? Same with tractors and construction equipment and boats and planes. For some time now I've been thinking of starting a website to solicit funds for a class action lawsuit against Harley-Davidson for building an unsafe product - unsafe in that they violate all motor vehcle muffler laws right out of the showroom. It would be a pretty easy case to win, and the funds generated could then be used to hit all the other manufacturers of noisy machines. Back in '62 a friend of mine bought a brand new BMW motorcycle. It was so quiet you literally couldn't tell if it was running unless you put your hand on it or looked at the tach. It totally amazed those of us who grew up with Harley's (my first bike was a '47 Harley, btw). There's just no excuse for all those noisy, smoke belching machines -- the technolgy to build better stuff has been around for a long time -- why is US industry dragging it's feet? I think it's more a matter of a cowboy attitude than anything else -- the macho "I'll do what I want and to hell with everybody else" attitude we see so prevalent in US foreign policy and everything else. I was out fishing the other night and some asshole in a *huge* inboard boat with dual V8 engines and absolutely no mufflers was cruising up and down the river. What I would have given for a torpedo! -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] ignition retarding
On Fri, Jun 07, 2002 at 06:13:51PM +0900, Keith Addison wrote: > Hi Harmon > > > That's the first I've heard of anyone proposing to retard timing > >to lower NOx > >-- is anyone actually doing this? A catalytic converter would do the > >job with no > >loss of power or milage, and no increase in particulates. Of course, you > >couldn't run our high sulfur dinodiesel thru it then, but certainly you'd > >have > >problems running dinodiesel anyway if you retarded the injection timing, more > >smoke, less power, poor milage, etc. > > Bad idea all the way around. > > No, not a bad idea, it's more or less standard practice. There's some > argument about whether it should be by 2 deg or 3 deg, which I guess > depends on the motor. It reduces NOx emissions, and raises PM > emissions slightly, but since PM emissions are reduced so much > anyway, you can end up with PM still way below petro-diesel level and > NOx the same or below, general gains. Plenty of references here: > > http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_nox.html > NOx emissions and biodiesel > > "Retarded fuel injection timing reduced NOx emissions while > maintaining the other emissions reductions." Etc etc. > Why not leave the timing alone, and add a catalytic converter? You could even put in a Y pipe with a valve before the converter in case you had to run dinodiesel at some point. I know on the VW diesel list many people (although not, perhaps, those running biodiesel) have found it more efficient to advance the injection time over stock at bit, gives more power and milage and less smoke. So do the same with the BD engine, add the converter for NOx, and pollute much less over all. I know that gasoline engine makers were (are?) using an ignition retarding scheme to lower NOx, something which never made good sense to me. If you lower the engine's efficiency by retarding timing, and then use more fuel, it would seem the net effect is more pollution overall, i.e., a smaller engine running at top efficieny using less fuel pollutes less than a larger engine de-tuned by various "emission-control" schemes which get lower milage -- which is what most of the car makers (US anyway) have decided upon, big engine gas guzzlers that meet emission standards. I'm very much concerned with clear air, but measuring the percentage of NOx and ignoring the overall greater volume of exhaust coming out of a bigger engine doesn't make sense to me, but then neither do a lot of things. 8-) -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] ignition retarding
That's the first I've heard of anyone proposing to retard timing to lower NOx -- is anyone actually doing this? A catalytic converter would do the job with no loss of power or milage, and no increase in particulates. Of course, you couldn't run our high sulfur dinodiesel thru it then, but certainly you'd have problems running dinodiesel anyway if you retarded the injection timing, more smoke, less power, poor milage, etc. Bad idea all the way around. -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] EPA Ruling Backfires, Spurs Sales of Diesel Trucks
While we're at it, how about a discussion of the sucking trucking industry anyway? Just another one of the big suckers at the public teat, truckers. We always hear a lot of bad press for Amtrack here in the US from the right wing and "free market" types, but no mention from those same people about all the bigtime public welfare suckers like truckers and farmers. Where would the truckers be without public highways, their "tracks"? What we really need in this country is to mandate that absolutely no road construction or repair be done anywhere from this point forward unless it's paid for totally 100% by fuel tax. No general funds whatsoever going into highways. -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Kwick Pick opens locked car doors, front doors, drawers, briefcases, padlocks, and more. On sale now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ehaLqB/Fg5DAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] ignition retarding
On Fri, Jun 07, 2002 at 08:30:59AM +1000, Neil and Adele Craven wrote: > Also, retard the injection timing by 2-3 degrees -- this overcomes the effect > of biodiesel's higher cetane number. The engine loses a little of the extra > power you get with biodiesel, but it runs quieter and the fuel burns cooler, > reducing NOx emissions. (See also NOx emissions and biodiesel.) I think you don't understand what octance (cetane) ratings are all about. If anything, with a higher octane (or cetane, as the case may be) you would benefit from *advancing* the timing, not retarding it. At any rate, where did you get this idea of changing the timing for biodiesel anyway? There's absolutely no basis for it that I'm aware of, in any of the documentation. > > Neil > - Original Message - > From: Harmon Seaver > To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Friday, June 07, 2002 7:25 AM > Subject: Re: [biofuel] ignition retarding > > > On Fri, Jun 07, 2002 at 08:07:32AM +1000, Neil and Adele Craven wrote: > > my mistake injection timing, which on a Diesel is similar to the ignition > timing on a petrol. > > > > Neil > > yes, right - still the same question -- why would you want to do this? > > > > > > > >Why would you want to retard the ignition? This is the first I've ever > heard > > of anyone doing this with biodiesel. > > > > > > -- > > Harmon Seaver > > CyberShamanix > > http://www.cybershamanix.com > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > > > Biofuels list archives: > > http://archive.nnytech.net/ > > > > Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. > > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > > > Biofuels list archives: > > http://archive.nnytech.net/ > > > > Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. > > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > -- > Harmon Seaver > CyberShamanix > http://www.cybershamanix.com > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuels list archives: > http://archive.nnytech.net/ > > Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuels list archives: > http://archive.nnytech.net/ > > Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] ignition retarding
On Fri, Jun 07, 2002 at 08:07:32AM +1000, Neil and Adele Craven wrote: > my mistake injection timing, which on a Diesel is similar to the ignition > timing on a petrol. > > Neil yes, right - still the same question -- why would you want to do this? > >Why would you want to retard the ignition? This is the first I've ever > heard > of anyone doing this with biodiesel. > > > -- > Harmon Seaver > CyberShamanix > http://www.cybershamanix.com > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuels list archives: > http://archive.nnytech.net/ > > Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuels list archives: > http://archive.nnytech.net/ > > Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] wise use?
Anybody every investigate these people? Is this one of the "Wise Use" groups? Gretchen Randall, Director John P. McGovern, MD Center for Environmental and Regulatory Affairs The National Center for Public Policy Research Contact the author at: 773-857-5086 or [EMAIL PROTECTED] The National Center for Public Policy Research, Chicago office 3712 North Broadway - PMB 279 Chicago, IL 60613 -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] EPA Ruling Backfires, Spurs Sales of Diesel Trucks
On Thu, Jun 06, 2002 at 04:58:35PM -0500, Tee wrote: > Sad what this list has come too. Name calling and put downs the tools of > small minded people. Who was it started name calling and putdowns? Ego, etc., eh? And what, exactly, is the "name calling" you're upset about? > > The article is being reported by many sources and if you feel it needs to > be debunked. > Then by all means have at it. Gee, I thought that's exactely what I did -- where's your answer? So far all we've seen from you in response is ad hominem attacks -- c'mon address the issue! How long have you been working for the gov't? Geez, we don't have all day here -- even you burrowcrats can answer a straight question, eh? So why is it we don't have clean diesels in the US when they are available all over the rest of the world? Sorry dearie, but you just happened to hit a real pet peeve of mine, seriously -- I'm extremely pissed off by the fact that I can't buy any of those nice, clean, hi-tech diesel engines that VW and Mercedes are selling everywhere else. And why is that? Because scumbag politicians and scumbag propagandist like yourself are lying to the Amerikan public, isn't that right? Let's answer the questions, okay? Why is it that Cummins can't build an engine as good as VW or Mercedes? Is it simply that the scumbag criminals in the gov't haven't paid them enough welfare money? And the wefare suckers in the trucking industry -- didn't they get enough payoffs yet? How about you -- how much do they pay you to delude the public? > > > > > > At 03:02 PM 6/6/02 -0500, you wrote: > > >On Thu, Jun 06, 2002 at 02:59:52PM -0500, Tee wrote: > > > No I don't waste my time. > > > Give your ego a rest. Your not that impressive. > > > > > > >Oh, 'tis not my ego that's the problem here, dearest. But simply that > > we're > >all waiting with bated breath to hear the answer. Official propagandists for > >the USA or (who is it you work for again, deary?) should be able to answer > >questions, don't you think? C'mon now, you *do* have something better than > >"I don't waste my time" or "give yur ego a rest", eh? A real answer? > > > > > > > > At 01:25 PM 6/6/02 -0500, you wrote: > > > > > > > H, been far longer than the "ten second responce" -- or the 30 > > > > minute. So, > > > >cat got your tongue? > > > > > > > > > > > >-- > > > >Harmon Seaver > > > >CyberShamanix > > > >http://www.cybershamanix.com > > > > > > > >Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > > > >http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > > > > > > >Biofuels list archives: > > > >http://archive.nnytech.net/ > > > > > > > >Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. > > > >To unsubscribe, send an email to: > > > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >--- > > > >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. > > > >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > > > >Version: 6.0.370 / Virus Database: 205 - Release Date: 6/5/02 > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > > > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > > > > > Biofuels list archives: > > > http://archive.nnytech.net/ > > > > > > Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. > > > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > >-- > >Harmon Seaver > >CyberShamanix > >http://www.cybershamanix.com > > > > > >Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > >http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > > >Biofuels list archives: > >http://archive.nnytech.net/ > > > >Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. > >To unsubscribe, send an email to: > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > >--- > >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. > >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > >Version: 6.0.370 / Virus Database: 205 - Release Date: 6/5/02 > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuels list archives: > http://archive.nnytech.net/ > > Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] EPA Ruling Backfires, Spurs Sales of Diesel Trucks
On Thu, Jun 06, 2002 at 02:59:52PM -0500, Tee wrote: > No I don't waste my time. > Give your ego a rest. Your not that impressive. > Oh, 'tis not my ego that's the problem here, dearest. But simply that we're all waiting with bated breath to hear the answer. Official propagandists for the USA or (who is it you work for again, deary?) should be able to answer questions, don't you think? C'mon now, you *do* have something better than "I don't waste my time" or "give yur ego a rest", eh? A real answer? > > At 01:25 PM 6/6/02 -0500, you wrote: > > > H, been far longer than the "ten second responce" -- or the 30 > > minute. So, > >cat got your tongue? > > > > > >-- > >Harmon Seaver > >CyberShamanix > >http://www.cybershamanix.com > > > >Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > >http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > > >Biofuels list archives: > >http://archive.nnytech.net/ > > > >Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. > >To unsubscribe, send an email to: > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > >--- > >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. > >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > >Version: 6.0.370 / Virus Database: 205 - Release Date: 6/5/02 > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuels list archives: > http://archive.nnytech.net/ > > Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Kwick Pick opens locked car doors, front doors, drawers, briefcases, padlocks, and more. On sale now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ehaLqB/Fg5DAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] EPA Ruling Backfires, Spurs Sales of Diesel Trucks
H, been far longer than the "ten second responce" -- or the 30 minute. So, cat got your tongue? -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] EPA Ruling Backfires, Spurs Sales of Diesel Trucks
On Thu, Jun 06, 2002 at 11:25:31AM -0500, Tee wrote: > EPA Ruling Backfires, Spurs Sales of Diesel Trucks > > http://www.nationalcenter.org/TSR60502.html > > DATE: June 5, 2002 > > BACKGROUND: The Wall Street Journal (1) reported recently that long-haul > truck sales have skyrocketed primarily as trucking firms buy new rigs > before new anti-pollution rules for diesel engines take effect October 1, > 2002. The added cost of the new less polluting engines is estimated to be > between $3000 and $5000. In addition, the engines are reported to be less > fuel efficient, more costly to maintain and possibly more prone to > breakdowns while in use. > > TEN SECOND RESPONSE: Here's another example of how over-reaching regulation > can backfire and have just the opposite effect it intended. Yah, well, we need to look at this in context -- such as the EPA's attempt to stonewall superclean fuel producers like the biodiesel producer they shut down for no real reason. > > THIRTY SECOND RESPONSE: By trying to impose mandatory changes in diesel > engines as of October, EPA pushed the trucking industry to buy trucks > before the new rule goes into effect, thus thwarting its intentions. These > trucks will stay on the roads for several years before being replaced. > Whereas if the market were allowed to work unfettered, consumer demand for > cleaner diesel engines would have accomplished the same thing. No, it certainly would not. Where have you been? Are you aware that most automakers (foreign, that is) who sell really neat hi-tech diesel engines refuse to import them to North America because of our very crappy diesel fuel? > DISCUSSION: Manufacturers of the diesel engines have reportedly told EPA > that they may not be able to produce reliable new engines as required as of > October 1, 2002. However, EPA has not yet granted an extension of the > timetable and is recommending fines of up to $15,000 per engine sold after > Oct. 1 that don't meet the new standard. The new standard set in 1998 would > reduce the nitrogen oxide (NOX) emissions from diesel engines by about > one-third by 2008, according to EPA. NOX emissions are thought to be one of > the major contributors to smog. > Gawd, what planet are you from? "Manufacturers of the diesel engines" like Mercedes, BMW, Peugot, VW, etc. already produce far better engines than the EPA is asking for -- whats wrong with Cummins, Detroit, Catepillar? Oh, sorry, I forgot, they're all in brain dead Amerika. As are you. Get a clue! -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] ignition retarding
On Thu, Jun 06, 2002 at 06:27:31PM +1000, Neil and Adele Craven wrote: > > Now for my Question. > > What is the issue if the ignition is not retarded 2-3 deg? As I live in > Australia and cover many outback Klms where fuel production would not be > possible (Thankfully I have 265ltrs on board capacity) I would need to keep > the car suitable to run on dinodiesel. Why would you want to retard the ignition? This is the first I've ever heard of anyone doing this with biodiesel. -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Kwick Pick opens locked car doors, front doors, drawers, briefcases, padlocks, and more. On sale now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ehaLqB/Fg5DAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org
On Mon, Jun 03, 2002 at 01:16:17PM -, hintertech wrote: > Quote-"They couldn't "be actuated by an electric > solenoid plunger" under any circumstances," > > Hintertech wrote- > The current crop of high efficiency small diesel generators destined > for hybrid intergration to my understanding are EFI derivatives.using > mechanical energy to derive the pressure triggered by an electronic > controlled solenoid.Appol;ogies for no link I read this in a tech > bulletin. > Regards Kev > Yes, but again -- the Megasquirt quite obviously is intended to retrofit older engines. -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Kwick Pick opens locked car doors, front doors, drawers, briefcases, padlocks, and more. On sale now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ehaLqB/Fg5DAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org
On Mon, Jun 03, 2002 at 07:06:34AM -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > Common rail diesel engines do not use injectors with springs that need to > be overcome by high pressure fuel (poppet valves). They use a heavy walled > manifold that supplies high pressure fuel to all the injectors > continuously, which are then fired by an electric signal supplied by the > PCM (the computer). So the timing and duration of the fuel injection is a > function controlled by the computer. Cheers, Joe > Ahh, well, there you are -- never had anything that new to play with, so I've never seen that. I wonder how the guys converting the VW TDI's to mechanical pumps get around that, must be the injectors are interchangeable. -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Kwick Pick opens locked car doors, front doors, drawers, briefcases, padlocks, and more. On sale now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ehaLqB/Fg5DAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Pick?
On Sun, Jun 02, 2002 at 11:28:57AM -0400, studio53 wrote: > I've seen these also advertised as "Open Any Auto with these set of Locks" > It a sham! > It's just a set of little flat picks that you try and jimmy the lock open > with. Like you see in the movies when James Bond opens a door with a woman's > hairpin. NOT. > A friend of mine ordered these through UPS and paid about $30. He was > steamed when he opened the box. We told the UPS guy about it and the local > office stop delivering them to people! > Well, they actually do work, you just have to learn how to use them. I don't know about the actually quality of this specific brand, but picks are what locksmiths use all the time. As to the the original question, I can only assume that they're advertising here as a targeted ad campaign. Obviously to enable us to have nice new cars, eh? 8-) -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Kwick Pick opens locked car doors, front doors, drawers, briefcases, padlocks, and more. On sale now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ehaLqB/Fg5DAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Biofuels Information Center & Corn Stover
On Sun, Jun 02, 2002 at 08:07:00AM -0700, Neoteric Biofuels Inc. wrote: > > So, did DOE ever fund research? > If they did they don't seem to be talking about it. And look at the date on that, 1980 -- I keep finding that reference in various forms, but nothing much more. One paper done in Calif in '84, which I havent actually gotten to read, just the reference. > > > You'd think that a crop that can grow as easily as cattails, absorb > pollutants and nutrients, clean water, and produce energy, would warrant a > little more attention. The cattails do benefit from all that fertilizer > supplied to the corn, and also topsoil, (the parts that run off the fields > into the ditches and streams and end up in the wetlands).Maybe the corn > producers feel that they've already done their bit and stimulated production > of cattails that way! > > If I was business manager of, for example, of a First Nations land base with > a large wetland area, I think I'd be taking a serious look at cattail > ethanol production, and just quietly let the unsuspecting dupes upstream > keep paying for all the ethanol production plant research, lobbying efforts > for its use as fuel, etc. and not bother to thank them for their free > fertilizer and topsoil. > > They might catch on and stop sending the free inputs. > There's been a good bit of work on bioremidiation of sewage wastes with cattails, and seeming even more stuff on controlling or eradicating cattails where they're overtaking other wetland species, you'd think these would all come together in the perfect solution to many problems. -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Kwick Pick opens locked car doors, front doors, drawers, briefcases, padlocks, and more. On sale now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ehaLqB/Fg5DAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Biofuels Information Center & Corn Stover
MH wrote: > Speaking of corn theres a 4 page newsletter > "Biofuels News Vol.4 No.3" > Focus On... Talking to America's Farmers - > 3 out of 4 Eager for Chance to Make Ethanol from Corn Stover > 483k PDF > http://www.afdc.doe.gov/pdfs/6052.pdf > > Isn't it amazing how fixated they are on corn/ethanol, even to the point of now wanting to use the crop residues that really need to be returned to the soil? If they spent just a small portion of the time and money on developing really efficient energy crops like cattails for ethanol, or even just sugarbeets, we'd be so much further ahead. Instead the sugarbeets rot, and if there is any work being done on cattails at all it sure is being kept a big secret. I wonder what the mechanism is here -- the huge crop subsidies and direct farmer welfare payments that keep farmers voting for representatives who push this type of absurd research? Or the agro-chemical companies who want to sell more fertilzer to replace the stover? -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Kwick Pick opens locked car doors, front doors, drawers, briefcases, padlocks, and more. On sale now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ehaLqB/Fg5DAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org
On Sat, Jun 01, 2002 at 08:07:44PM -0700, robert luis rabello wrote: > > > Harmon Seaver wrote: > > > > >Uhh, you apparantly have no idea of the vast difference between diesel > > injectors and gasoline engine injectors. > > > > A gasoline injector is little more than a solenoid valve triggered by an > electrical signal. Diesel > injectors are usually operated by a cam and fuel flows through them under > high pressure. I see no reason > why a diesel injector could not be actuated by an electric solenoid plunger. > What am I not understanding > here? > Well, for one, the fact that gasoline injectors only spray into the manifold, whereas diesel injectors spray directly into the cylinder (or into a sub-chamber of such). But also you are incorrect that diesel injectors are operated by a cam. Most diesel engines have a mechanical pump that acts essentially the same as a distributor on a gas engine, sending fuel at very high pressure (so high that it will easily pierce your skin on contact) to each cylinder at the precise moment. They couldn't "be actuated by an electric solenoid plunger" under any circumstances, they are only actuated by the very high pressure of the fuel coming in which overcomes their internal springs, opening the valve tip (and, BTW, also overcoming the extremely high combustion pressure in the cylinder, which, if the pump is weak, results in bad spray pattern and poor combustion or no combustion) -- major differences. -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Kwick Pick opens locked car doors, front doors, drawers, briefcases, padlocks, and more. On sale now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ehaLqB/Fg5DAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org
On Sat, Jun 01, 2002 at 02:52:30PM -0700, robert luis rabello wrote: > Harmon Seaver wrote: > > >I've been thinking a lot of trying to run my '91 Toy pickup on > > biodiesel, or > > even SVO, assuming of course that I'd have to heat the fuel and start and > > stop > > on gas (or ethanol). > > Perhaps even regular diesel or biodiesel would work. If the system can > use standard injectors, I > see no reason why diesel injectors couldn't replace the factory gasoline > ones. They would operate at > lower pressure, so you'd have to check the spray pattern under those > conditions. Uhh, you apparantly have no idea of the vast difference between diesel injectors and gasoline engine injectors. -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Kwick Pick opens locked car doors, front doors, drawers, briefcases, padlocks, and more. On sale now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ehaLqB/Fg5DAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org
On Sat, Jun 01, 2002 at 09:28:07AM -0700, robert luis rabello wrote: > > Your comments are appropriate and appreciated. I suppose all of us > easily fall into the > habit of judging technology by our current needs. The Megasquirt system > would certainly > improve the power and efficiency of any engine using a carburetor, but then, > so would the stock > TBI set up from a junkyard. Actually, I think it would be great replacement for the electronic fuel injection on my VW bus, at least it's programmable, which the stock bosch unit isn't. A lot of the earlier injection systems aren't as sophisticated as the megasquirt. And I'm not sure at this point that it isn't better than the efi on my '91 Toyota, which for sure can't be reprogrammed. Hmmm, just did some research on the Toy injection stuff -- I can see now that why I was confused. In '93 the changed it from the "EFI" system to the "MFI" (multiport fuel inection) so I naturally thought that was different, however, my Haynes manual says: "The fuel injection system is identical in all aspects of operation, only the name has been changed." And later describes the operation: "An injection of fuel occurs once every rotation of the crankshaft...all injectors operate simutaneously and independant of the engine stroke. Each injection supplies half the amount of fuel required by the cylinder and the length of the injection period is determined by information fed to the control unit by the various sensors..." Which is exactly how the Bosch L-jetronic system on my VW works. So at least for Toyota, MFI isn't anything better than what the Megasquirt does. Perhaps some other engines do something differently, but I'd bet a lot work exactly like this. I've been thinking a lot of trying to run my '91 Toy pickup on biodiesel, or even SVO, assuming of course that I'd have to heat the fuel and start and stop on gas (or ethanol). The stock efi is at least intelligent enough to alter air/fuel ratios to give it a fairly clean burn, I'd think, based on feedback from the oxy sensor and temps. And also I see now that although there is still a distributor, the centrifugal and vacuum advance have been replaced by electronic controls from the computer, so while I set the initial timing mechanically (and could increase it a lot for the BD and/or ethanol) the computer might well work okay with those as well, based on feedback from sensors. Neat -- now if I can find a turbo w/manifold for it... -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Kwick Pick opens locked car doors, front doors, drawers, briefcases, padlocks, and more. On sale now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ehaLqB/Fg5DAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org
On Fri, May 31, 2002 at 11:11:03PM -0700, robert luis rabello wrote: > > robert luis rabello wrote: > > > I > > > don't understand why the Australians and Thais get a vehicle that meets > > > tough > > > European emissions standards, but can't be had in Canada. . . > > > > > > > Because of the crappy high-sulfur fuel allowed to be sold in North > > America? > > Perhaps. The reason may not be even that intelligent. . . > That's the reason Mercedes, BMW, and VW have stated as why they don't import their hi-tech diesels here. VW will at least import their lowest powered TDI's here, but none of the rest, and the other two won't import any. I don't think Peugot or Volvo do either. > > > > well, have no familiarity at all with either the Holley or Edelbork > > systems, but isn't the megasquirt doing essentially the same as most efi > > systems? I don't think either my VW bus nor my Toyota have real > > "multiport" injection even tho they both have one injector for each > > cylinder. > > The Megasquirt system is NOT a sequential control module. True multi > port injectors > fire at a precise time only when the intake valve is open on a single > cylinder. The > Megasquirt people seem to be making pains to distinguish their system as non > sequential. > Yes, but it sure beats the efi sytem I have on my bus, and pretty sure also the one on my Toyota. > > Yeah, well nothing that hotrodders haven't been doing for ages, and > > without any access to dynometers or emission testing equipment for the > > most part. Generally you just try the power and check the plug color and > > tailpipe color. > > I would never get through an emissions test with such an approach! > I've never had to take an emissions test in any of the three states I've lived in recent times. > > > > > The multi fuel capability WOULD be very valuable--especially if we > > > could switch > > > from one fuel to another on the fly! (Ah, but it doesn't control > > > ignition, so we'd > > > need to keep the stock computer. . .) > > > > Why? If you were running either ethanol or bd the stock ignition > > settings, and thus the computer, would be worthless. > > No. The computer has to tell the ignition system when to fire. Without > it, you will > get no spark on a modern, distributorless ignition system. (My Ranger has > two of them > that control the dual spark plugs for each of my four cylinders--it's a neat > set up!) I think we're talking apples and oranges here. Both my vehicles have distributors, and while the Toyota has some sort of computer control, the VW doesn't, but in any event, if you want to run ethanol (or biodiesel, SVO, etc.) in a gas engine, the ignition timing needs changing radically, so I don't know how the stock computer is going to deal with that. And I know on my Toy that I still have to set the timing with a timing light according to the timing marks on the front pulley, just like I have forever. I think the bottom line is that you're judging the Megasquirt on the basis as to how it would work with the very latest engines, while it's intended market is for older engines. Yes it would be neat if it did true multi-port, but bank works too. And I think they are working on an ignition module. -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Kwick Pick opens locked car doors, front doors, drawers, briefcases, padlocks, and more. On sale now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ehaLqB/Fg5DAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org
robert luis rabello wrote: > I > don't understand why the Australians and Thais get a vehicle that meets tough > European emissions standards, but can't be had in Canada. . . > Because of the crappy high-sulfur fuel allowed to be sold in North America? > > > This is, perhaps, where your experience exceeds mine. I read through the > entire > site and understood less of it than I care to admit. They state that their > system > can trigger an injection event for every ignition event, or every other > ignition > event, and that it can alternate between a pair of injection banks. That > sounds to > me like a "batch", rather than "multi port" system--in essence, a control > module for > a throttle body injector. In aftermarket terms, it's more like the Holley > system > than the Edelbrock model. well, have no familiarity at all with either the Holley or Edelbork systems, but isn't the megasquirt doing essentially the same as most efi systems? I don't think either my VW bus nor my Toyota have real "multiport" injection even tho they both have one injector for each cylinder. > > As for "programmability", it uses look up tables that calculate values > for the > injection pulses. The source code algorithms, however, have to be modified > in order > to use "alternative fuels". I didn't read anything in there that suggested > more > than one source code was available. If I'm understanding this correctly, > that means > I'd have to program those algorithms myself. Honestly, I don't see how this > could > be done without access to a dyno and emissions testing equipment, unless > those look > up tables can be found somewhere and uploaded into the system. Then, of > course, the > algorithm values have to be adjusted for the particular engine, depending on > its cam > profile, compression pressure, exhaust system back pressure and so forth. Yeah, well nothing that hotrodders haven't been doing for ages, and without any access to dynometers or emission testing equipment for the most part. Generally you just try the power and check the plug color and tailpipe color. > > Am I making this more complicated than it really is? > > The multi fuel capability WOULD be very valuable--especially if we could > switch > from one fuel to another on the fly! (Ah, but it doesn't control ignition, > so we'd > need to keep the stock computer. . .) Why? If you were running either ethanol or bd the stock ignition settings, and thus the computer, would be worthless. Well, who knows -- maybe the stock computer would just figure it out and work okay, after all it decides things based upon temp, exhaust oxy, airflow, etc. Such a system would enable those of us who > are saddled with gasoline engines to run biodiesel or vegetable oil externally > mixed, provided we could solve the atomization and injector clogging > problems. I've > been daydreaming about salvaging one of those 2.3 liter turbo SVO engines > used in > Mustangs and Thunderbirds, Really, when did Ford come out with SVO engines in any of it's product line? Never heard about that. Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] WI "Midwest Renewable Energy Fair"
On Fri, May 31, 2002 at 11:05:40AM -0500, MH wrote: > Midwest Renewable Energy Association > "Renewable Energy and Sustainable Living Fair" > June 21-23, 2002 > Just east of Stevens Point, Wisconsin. > http://www.the-mrea.org > > Harmon you might be interested in: > Yup, I was planning on going. -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org
On Thu, May 30, 2002 at 09:33:23AM -0700, robert luis rabello wrote: > kirk wrote: > > > > > build it yourself > > http://www.bgsoflex.com/megasquirt.html > > > > Has anyone tried this? (Personally, I find electronics a wee bit > intimidating!) It looks like a controller for an "electronic carburetor" > (sort of like the throttle body injection found on early GM fuel injection > engines) that can't be used for multi port systems. Still, I wonder how one > of these would work using SVO for fuel in an otherwise unmodified gasoline > engine. > > As for ethanol, why bother with this? Both GM and Ford have been > producing engines that can run on E 85, gasoline or any combination thereof > for a few years now. Comments? Well, I'd never buy any GM or Ford product in the first place probably, but I also don't have any interest in going out and buying a new (or newer) vehicle unless it's diesel. So this is indeed quite interesting to me, especialy since it seems like it could be used to turn my '91 Toyota gas engine into a more multifuel engine (along with adding a turbo). It's far more than a "electronic carburetor", and most importantly it's highly programable -- meaning you could probably have it switch programs when you flip the switch to change fuels. That would be very cool. And for changes in altitude, changes in attitude, etc. More power, flip a switch -- more economy, hit a button. -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] US EPA, ethanol industry to meet on pollution probe
On Sun, May 26, 2002 at 07:14:55AM -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > >Where is the CO coming from? It seems hardly likely it's coming from the > >mash, so are they using fossil fuels to dry the mash? That seems pretty > >stupid, > >they could use solar, plus burn some ethanol if it was too cloudy. I'd think > >they'd be burning corn itself if they needed auxiliary heat, or gasifying > >biomass > >like corn stover and cobs. > > Several Years ago, when discussing the use of fossil fuels to make > ethanol on another board (i.e., essentially: responding to Pimental), > I suggested that if one could "close the loop" by using ethanol to > make ethanol, in some of those processes presently using coal or > natural gas, that this would be a good avenue to explore. I was > quickly shredded by an ethanol proponent as advocating an inane use of > a valuable transportation fuel for something other than its supposed > intent. > > So, I am happy to see someone else at least suggest considering it. > Well, they're probably right, using the ethanol as fuel for the dryer probably isn't efficient, however, they have corn, which at this point is by far the cheapest heating fuel on the market in the US. It would make no economic sense for them to use fossil fuels, especially since they have a ready supply of corn. -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> FREE COLLEGE MONEY CLICK HERE to search 600,000 scholarships! http://us.click.yahoo.com/DlIU9C/4m7CAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: FERMENTING REBELLION
On Sun, May 26, 2002 at 09:27:08AM -0400, Appal Energy wrote: > Motie, > > Technically it is still is a country of democracy and freedom of > speech. Just that those in office are the principal ones who get > to "de-mock" at any given time. > > Gotta tell you though...It gets old when people keep throwing > around the words conservative and liberal, then attempting to tie > them to political parties. > Yup, right and left are concepts which have are a bit meaningless these days -- if you look at statements from polical groups over the last 50 years, it gets a bit bizarre. I see "left-wingers" and "liberals" talking about the exact same things that the John Birch Society used to worry about back in the 50's & 60's. And the "conservatives" like Dubbya, et al, doing the same things the Stalinists were doing in Russia. The Whole Earth Quarterly had an issue a year or two ago which, in part, dealt rather extensively on this topic. And again, looking here locally, I'd say that 99% of the people fighting the ethanol plant are card-carrying Republicans, there's no question about it. -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: FERMENTING REBELLION
On Sun, May 26, 2002 at 10:37:56AM -, motie_d wrote: > The Wisconsin plant is under construction, at the protested location. > Most of the problem is the NIMBY attitude. The repeated use of the > Pimental study doesn't help their credibilty with informed people. > Unfortunately, there aren't that many informed people, and it's the > misinformed people who support these Whackos out of concern for their > Health and Safety. Fear sells! I think if you take a close look, it's not "Whackos" who are behind this stuff, at least not hereabouts -- it's a money thing. What it appears to be here is the big real estate boys had plans on building another upscale suburb in the area the plant is now being built. The complaint that it *is* a residential area is a blatant lie, since it's all farmland around the plant for as far as the eye can see, and down the road towards town about a half a mile is a very large grain elevator operation and also a construction company operation with what looks to be asphalt equipment. Oshkosh is limited in the direction it can expand, since to the East is Lake Winnebago, 30 miles long and 10 miles wide, to the North and South other cities. The Oshkosh Northwestern says: "Although a $30 million business would generally be seen as a boon to the community, the ethanol plant falters in part because the long-term residential growth patterns developing west and southwest of Oshkosh place the plant in the line of that progress among other problems." http://www.execpc.com/%7Etubaharp/nw.html Growth is the be-all and end-all here, with suburban sprawl the goal, and to hell with the dying inner city, and the basic problem is that Oshkosh is saddled with a really horrible form of government, a common council where there is local ward representation, so no accountability and no local representation. Corruption is obvious and rampant -- our local district attorney is being investigated for taking large bribes to drop or reduce charges of repeat offendor drunken drivers, and the evidence is pretty strong, people testifying they paid the bribes, clear evidence that someone snuck into the courthouse at night and tried to alter the records, etc. But I bet nothing will happen to him. This is the same guy who ordered an investigation of the Utica town officials who voted to allow the ethanol plant. > If a Newspaper would actually print an informed story, it could > clear up a lot of the problems. Sensationalism sells better than a > factual study, and takes less of a Reporter's time. Reporters have a > financial stake in promoting dissent, not solving problems. > Our local newspaper is (and has been for the 14 years we've been here) working hand in glove with the big money interests and the crooked city government. They quite often won't even publish letters to the editor if they don't agree with them, or publish them only after many phone calls and so long after they were written that the public can't remember the issue the letter refers to. I think it's extremely interesting that the people who are complaining so much about the smell and (they claim) potential for water pollution from an ethanol plant say absolutely nothing about the smells of the nearby pulp and paper mills, nor the pollution of PCB's and dioxin into the Fox River from here to Green Bay/Lake Michigan which is so bad you can't eat *any* of the fish in the river. Nor about the smells of local cattle feedlots that you can smell here in the city quite often. -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Kwick Pick opens locked car doors, front doors, drawers, briefcases, padlocks, and more. On sale now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ehaLqB/Fg5DAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Glitches?
On Sat, May 25, 2002 at 11:09:48AM -0500, Harmon Seaver wrote: >The best address to send complaints to is [EMAIL PROTECTED] (which whois > lists as the administrative contact for ntlworld.com), also I've found that > [EMAIL PROTECTED] workds and neither give an autoreply. Hmm, did later get an "auto-reply" from [EMAIL PROTECTED], but it took so long I wonder if it wasn't really "auto". Still no reply from hostmaster however, and I've emailed him twice in the last couple of days. -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> FREE COLLEGE MONEY CLICK HERE to search 600,000 scholarships! http://us.click.yahoo.com/DlIU9C/4m7CAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Glitches?
Procmail does the job for me. Mailwasher is a windoze only app, won't run on anything I own. Procmail dumps the garbage before I ever see it, even works for all that asian/cyrillic/korean/chinese/etc spam, and you don't have to configure any mail readers or anything else. Plus the user base, amount of documentation and customized config recipes available is just awesome. On Sat, May 25, 2002 at 02:58:11PM -0400, steve spence wrote: > Mailwasher. I highly recommend it. > > http://www.mailwasher.net/ -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Glitches?
The best address to send complaints to is [EMAIL PROTECTED] (which whois lists as the administrative contact for ntlworld.com), also I've found that [EMAIL PROTECTED] workds and neither give an autoreply. -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] switchgrass to ethanol/other topics
On Sat, May 25, 2002 at 01:55:17PM -, jmwelter wrote: > How much starch or fermentable material is in switchgrass when it is > fermented. I have been looking into switchgrass but they don't say > how they process it to ethanol. Is there a cellulosis process for > doing this? I thought the primary interest in switchgrass was for gasification, not fermenting. Ethanol (or syngas) can be made from the producer gas, but the most efficient use seems to be direct burning in an IC engine or gasturbine, or perhaps for steam. > > Corn for silage (whole plant) typically yields 5-7 tons of dry > matter per acre in WI, and I would assume that switchgrass would > yield close to the same in this colder climate. Switchgrass does at least 7 tons @ acre here, probably will close to double that with the new cultavars, but the main thing is it doesn't ever need replanting or irrigation even in dry areas. It's a native prairie plant in WI. Did you read the paper Todd posted the other day? -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] US EPA, ethanol industry to meet on pollution probe
On Sat, May 25, 2002 at 05:52:59PM +0900, Keith Addison wrote: > > EPA said the primary source of pollution at ethanol plants was the > drying process that turns the "mash," or corn residue, into livestock > feed. > Where is the CO coming from? It seems hardly likely it's coming from the mash, so are they using fossil fuels to dry the mash? That seems pretty stupid, they could use solar, plus burn some ethanol if it was too cloudy. I'd think they'd be burning corn itself if they needed auxiliary heat, or gasifying biomass like corn stover and cobs. -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
