On Sat, Jun 08, 2002 at 06:43:09AM -0000, motie_d wrote:
> --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Harmon Seaver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > That's irrelevant -- the fact is that their exhaust system is
> illegal, and
> > something needs to be done about it. It's irrelevant what the
> riders want or
> > what the company wants, they have no right to inflict that noise on
> the rest of
> > us.
>
> I don't believe a manufacturer can sell a motor vehicle that doesn't
> meet noise limit laws. After market exhaust systems may be louder
> than legal, and people are ticketted all the time for it.
Check a new Harley at the dealer -- it's excessive noise, totally stock. In
fact, Harley had to change it to sell bikes in Europe. Listen to a cop's Harley,
quite excessive. And you won't find loud bikes getting tickets around here,
that's for sure. Total straight pipes or megaphones are the norm.
>
> > Same with trucks - there's not the slightest rationality behind
> the lack of
> > adequate mufflers on trucks.
>
> That is also a legality issue, and truckers are ticketted often for
> exceeding noise limits. Many of them figure it is cheaper to pay the
> fines than it is to buy the extra fuel it takes to force the exhaust
> through a muffler.
I think Paul Gobert's post on the law there for stereo noise would do,
impound the vehicle. Make it a point issue, take their CDL.
> As a compromise, many trucks have 2 of those heavy
> expensive mufflers, so they can be legal and get better mileage. Dual
> exhaust systems add 200 pounds easily, and just the mufflers are $800
> each, besides the extra pipes.
>
> > The big problem has been that cops don't ticket Harleys because
> most police
> > departments also have Harleys, so somehow, they're "okay". Same
> thing with
> > trucks and heavy equipment -- there's this attitude that somehow
> they're exempt
> > from muffler laws and noise ordinances.
>
> I've never came across this attitude. Most Bikers and Truckers have
> the attitude that most noise laws are intended for revenue
> enhancement. They get that attitude from personal experience.
Well, having lived on MN's Iron Range quite recently, I sure heard plenty of
loud Harleys there. I can well recall sitting on a high ridge above the mine at
Eveleth watching a Harley miles away, and being annoyed at how loud he was even
at that distance. Around here, as I said above, there seems to be no enforcement
of muffler laws, and I'm not sure why that is. We've even asked the Chief of
Police why they don't, and he lied and claimed they did, as there was a news
reporter present, but they couldn't -- many of the bikes don't even have to be
running to get a ticket -- no muffler whatsoever.
(snip)
>
> There is much serious discussion going on, whether it will be
> cheaper for Trucking companies and engine manufacturers to pay the
> fines for NOT complying, than to pay the cost to be in compliance.
Make it a point issue, points against the CDL. Or impound the vehicle.
> The trucking industry is also concerned about the safety
> implications. If new trucks are too expensive to buy and operate, the
> average age of trucks on the road will increase. Would you prefer to
> share the road with a shiny new truck, or one that has over 1 Million
> miles on it? As trucks get older maintainance costs increase. It's
> likely that many trucks will not get all the maintainance they need,
> as often as they need it, which may well result in an increase in
> actual emmissions.
There's no reason the emission laws can't be retroactive. BTW, if you want
to see some interesting trucks, you should go down to Alabama and check out the
logging trucks on the road down there, and I don't mean on the back roads, but
right on the freeway, in the city of Mobile, etc. Like 40 year old 5 tons they
stick an extra axle under and carrying full treelength, hanging way, way off the
back, like at least 1/3 of the length. Real freaky.
>
> I believe a much better solution would be to raise the fuel quality.
> Then even the European technology would be usable here.
>
Yes, well that's the point, eh? But that's something all the US truck and
car industry will fight tooth and nail right along with Big Oil. They don't want
to compete.
--
Harmon Seaver
CyberShamanix
http://www.cybershamanix.com
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