Re: [Biofuel] Ultimate Pump Wash-Eureka!
Hi all; OK, I believe that, for those with limited headspace, I have the eureka of wash systems. The ring sprinkler crapped on me as I had screwed in the nosel too tight and it split leaving it floating on the BD when I went to do the follow up wash, Ai-yah! s off to get another, but this being October and garden stuff isn't in big demand I had a problem so I snooped around and found a neat device. Not exactly a new product, although for this application it is. I am now using an oscilating lawn sprinkler, but a short version which can have the width of the ascilating spray adjusted. http://www.melnor.com/products/oscillating_sprinklers.asp product 4050 is the one I now set up. Compact Euro design. :-) Sounds perfect for your set-up. I tried it out and it works FANTASTIC ! Covers the entire area via oscilation and after only a few minutes the BD andd water are mixed and coming through like the colour of chicken soup, just like when I do a paint stirrer wash in a pail. So I wait until it does that and then let it set for about 15 minutes or so and then fire it up again and wait until it gets all murky again. Double wash and then settle. I plan to repeat this three times (min) and see what kind of results I get but so far it looks VERY promising. The jet coming down (as I have hanging upside down) is quite strong using only a small Pony Pump from Flotec. I gues thati shwy they call it turbo , HA! Anyway, the wash saga is now terminated (I hope) for my particular set-up. The system is now 100% complete and processes 80 liter batches, drains the glycerine and sends the lot to the wash tank where this wash system take over and does the job. It sounds good. Sorry, I wasn't trying to put it down when I said it sounded like a sort of glorified mist-washer, just not sure how it worked. Mist-washers are no use, but a rain-washer, interesting. I'm glad I asked. Indeed it is coming through mixed with the BD (like chicken soup), and so I guess you could, maybe, just continue after it starts doing that and you will get a degree of pump-mixing, if that's what you want, as well as the initial rain-washing. Perhaps if you just let it run on chicken soup for a while you wouldn't need to rain it the second time after the 15-minute settle. Whatever, this sounds fine. Easier to set up than a stirrer I think, and you won't get any oxidation this way as with bubble-washing. Good work Luc. As usual. Keep it coming! Regards Keith Luc ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
[Biofuel] Ultimate Pump Wash-Eureka!
G'day keith et all; No offence taken on the glorified mist washer thingy. After all, that is in effect what it was :) This thingy, however, has much more potential than the ring thing. Of course it is Euro Design, HA! The Euro's (that would be Old Europe to those who are wondering), I am willing to gander a guess, probably make it better. This one seems to be plastic but theirs is more likely PVC or metal, but it works so far, but still in it's Beta stage. Tomorow will be the defining moment for this idea, although I am holding out high hopes as all the necessary criteria are being met. I agree, mist washing is useless, and can only serve to cover up a poor reaction. better just to make good fyuel and then either stir wash or pump wash using whatever system will get the oil and water together for an intimate party :) Luc ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
[Biofuel] Ultimate Pump Wash-Eureka!
Hi all; OK, I believe that, for those with limited headspace, I have the eureka of wash systems. The ring sprinkler crapped on me as I had screwed in the nosel too tight and it split leaving it floating on the BD when I went to do the follow up wash, s off to get another, but this being October and garden stuff isn't in big demand I had a problem so I snooped around and found a neat device. Not exactly a new product, although for this application it is. I am now using an oscilating lawn sprinkler, but a short version which can have the width of the ascilating spray adjusted. http://www.melnor.com/products/oscillating_sprinklers.asp product 4050 is the one I now set up. I tried it out and it works FANTASTIC ! Covers the entire area via oscilation and after only a few minutes the BD andd water are mixed and coming through like the colour of chicken soup, just like when I do a paint stirrer wash in a pail. So I wait until it does that and then let it set for about 15 minutes or so and then fire it up again and wait until it gets all murky again. Double wash and then settle. I plan to repeat this three times (min) and see what kind of results I get but so far it looks VERY promising. The jet coming down (as I have hanging upside down) is quite strong using only a small Pony Pump from Flotec. I gues thati shwy they call it turbo , HA! Anyway, the wash saga is now terminated (I hope) for my particular set-up. The system is now 100% complete and processes 80 liter batches, drains the glycerine and sends the lot to the wash tank where this wash system take over and does the job. Luc ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
[Biofuel] ultimate pump wash
OK, this time I think I just might have gotten it :) I was re-reading through the 90 liter processor at JtF as I recalled something about a shower head being used. Well, it turned out to be a watering can head, but same idea. I have set up a system where the water is pumped up from the exit pipe in the Standpipe design http://www.veggieavenger.com/avengerboard/viewtopic.php?t=333) to the top of the wash tank and there it is distributed via a T section to fall like rain over the BD. It works, but still not to my satisfaction. Enter the watering can idea. Instead of the T section with perferated hose actiing as a distributor tomorow I am on the hunt for a pair of large, flat shower heads that can be used instead. That should do it once and for all. The water gets pumped up and then falls like rain all over the surface of the BD washing it as it sinks to the bottom and gets pumped back up again and again and again. And that should about do it for the Ultimate Pump Wash :) Other methods might work better but with the very limited head space I have to work with this it is for me. I will post an update (even if it doesn't work... but it will, ha!) I figure that with TWO shower heads the entire area should be suficiently covered so as to do a good job, and that is the only thing I will be satisfied with, a GOOD job. Luc ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] ultimate pump wash
It's no ordinary watering can head: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_processor10.html Journey to Forever 90-litre processor Scroll down to processor lid. But all you need is the principle, of course, then adapt what you can find to do the same job in your set-up. As you're doing. I'm not quite clear on it though. The water gets pumped up and then falls like rain all over the surface of the BD - only the water? Or are you pumping BD as well, or mixed BD and water? If it's only the water, all you have is a sort of glorified mist-washer, with rain rather than mist. Well, maybe that's okay. But I'd've thought a pump would pull liquid out of the bottom faster than the water raining on top will percolate down, isn't it pulling BD as well, and mixing the water and BD? Is the BD getting mixed with water, or just rained on? regards Keith OK, this time I think I just might have gotten it :) I was re-reading through the 90 liter processor at JtF as I recalled something about a shower head being used. Well, it turned out to be a watering can head, but same idea. I have set up a system where the water is pumped up from the exit pipe in the Standpipe design http://www.veggieavenger.com/avengerboard/viewtopic.php?t=333) to the top of the wash tank and there it is distributed via a T section to fall like rain over the BD. It works, but still not to my satisfaction. Enter the watering can idea. Instead of the T section with perferated hose actiing as a distributor tomorow I am on the hunt for a pair of large, flat shower heads that can be used instead. That should do it once and for all. The water gets pumped up and then falls like rain all over the surface of the BD washing it as it sinks to the bottom and gets pumped back up again and again and again. And that should about do it for the Ultimate Pump Wash :) Other methods might work better but with the very limited head space I have to work with this it is for me. I will post an update (even if it doesn't work... but it will, ha!) I figure that with TWO shower heads the entire area should be suficiently covered so as to do a good job, and that is the only thing I will be satisfied with, a GOOD job. Luc ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] ultimate pump wash
- Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, October 01, 2004 12:57 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] ultimate pump wash Hello Luc It's no ordinary watering can head: Yup, I know, I already checked that out and followed the links; neat! http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_processor10.html Journey to Forever 90-litre processor Scroll down to processor lid. But all you need is the principle, of course, then adapt what you can find to do the same job in your set-up. As you're doing. I'm not quite clear on it though. The water gets pumped up and then falls like rain all over the surface of the BD - only the water? Or are you pumping BD as well, or mixed BD and water? If it's only the water, all you have is a sort of glorified mist-washer, with rain rather than mist. Well, maybe that's okay. But I'd've thought a pump would pull liquid out of the bottom faster than the water raining on top will percolate down, isn't it pulling BD as well, and mixing the water and BD? Is the BD getting mixed with water, or just rained on? Unfortunately it is only a glorified mist washer and the pump, a Pony Pump, doesn't quite suck fast and hard enough to get at the BD and water to give it as good a mix as a paint stirrer will. Once this set up installed and functional as is the next part of the set up will include a secondary settling tank for next Spring and this one WILL have a stirring mechanism as it will be outside the box, so-to-speak :) so head space will not be a concern and I can set up an inverted drill press on a stand or whatever with an extended paint stirrer or other makeshift apparatus that will give it the heave ho, but for now I have to make this present system functional without bubbling and this rain thing seems to be the only way to do it. given the space available to work with. Like I said, it does work, howbeit not as well as I would like, and so I am dogedly staying the course until I discover something that does work perfectly well for the application. Sticktoitivenes and perseverance are not things I lack, although they can also be a fault :) if blind. Luc regards Keith OK, this time I think I just might have gotten it :) I was re-reading through the 90 liter processor at JtF as I recalled something about a shower head being used. Well, it turned out to be a watering can head, but same idea. I have set up a system where the water is pumped up from the exit pipe in the Standpipe design http://www.veggieavenger.com/avengerboard/viewtopic.php?t=333) to the top of the wash tank and there it is distributed via a T section to fall like rain over the BD. It works, but still not to my satisfaction. Enter the watering can idea. Instead of the T section with perferated hose actiing as a distributor tomorow I am on the hunt for a pair of large, flat shower heads that can be used instead. That should do it once and for all. The water gets pumped up and then falls like rain all over the surface of the BD washing it as it sinks to the bottom and gets pumped back up again and again and again. And that should about do it for the Ultimate Pump Wash :) Other methods might work better but with the very limited head space I have to work with this it is for me. I will post an update (even if it doesn't work... but it will, ha!) I figure that with TWO shower heads the entire area should be suficiently covered so as to do a good job, and that is the only thing I will be satisfied with, a GOOD job. Luc ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] ultimate pump wash
I would really be concerned with a system like this. If you are not careful on how it is set up, you will mix biodiesel and water as noted. When the water comes through the biodiesel, it may not separate before it is suck up by the pump again. I would be really careful of a system like this unless you have a big water supply for the water wash and it is deep and the pick up point of the water is well below where the biodiesel and water meet. I think you could accomplish the same thing by putting a copper pipe through the biodiesel to the water, at the bottom. The copper pipe could have holes drilled in it at the water line, some above and some below. Then you could drill a bigger hole at the bottom of the copper pipe. Then you could run an air line through the pipe and bring it back around and put it in the hole at the bottom of the pipe and make sure the air hose is looking up. This way you could have the ultimate bubble wash as the air bubbles would bring the water from the bottom of the processor to the top and the water would go out the holes drilled at the top of the pipe and clean the biodiesel as it trickle backs down. As previously stated, you should make sure that the pipe is well below the point were biodiesel and water meet so you won't suck up any biodiesel and start to mix them up. Jeff From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] ultimate pump wash To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii ; format=flowed Hello Luc It's no ordinary watering can head: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_processor10.html Journey to Forever 90-litre processor Scroll down to processor lid. But all you need is the principle, of course, then adapt what you can find to do the same job in your set-up. As you're doing. I'm not quite clear on it though. The water gets pumped up and then falls like rain all over the surface of the BD - only the water? Or are you pumping BD as well, or mixed BD and water? If it's only the water, all you have is a sort of glorified mist-washer, with rain rather than mist. Well, maybe that's okay. But I'd've thought a pump would pull liquid out of the bottom faster than the water raining on top will percolate down, isn't it pulling BD as well, and mixing the water and BD? Is the BD getting mixed with water, or just rained on? regards Keith OK, this time I think I just might have gotten it :) I was re-reading through the 90 liter processor at JtF as I recalled something about a shower head being used. Well, it turned out to be a watering can head, but same idea. I have set up a system where the water is pumped up from the exit pipe in the Standpipe design http://www.veggieavenger.com/avengerboard/viewtopic.php?t=333) to the top of the wash tank and there it is distributed via a T section to fall like rain over the BD. It works, but still not to my satisfaction. Enter the watering can idea. Instead of the T section with perferated hose actiing as a distributor tomorow I am on the hunt for a pair of large, flat shower heads that can be used instead. That should do it once and for all. The water gets pumped up and then falls like rain all over the surface of the BD washing it as it sinks to the bottom and gets pumped back up again and again and again. And that should about do it for the Ultimate Pump Wash :) Other methods might work better but with the very limited head space I have to work with this it is for me. I will post an update (even if it doesn't work... but it will, ha!) I figure that with TWO shower heads the entire area should be suficiently covered so as to do a good job, and that is the only thing I will be satisfied with, a GOOD job. Luc ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] ultimate pump wash
- Original Message - From: Jeff [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, October 01, 2004 10:58 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] ultimate pump wash I would really be concerned with a system like this. If you are not careful on how it is set up, you will mix biodiesel and water as noted. Yes, and that isn't a problem for well made fuel as it will then seperate nicely once the mixing is done. I have done this verything with a drill attached pain stirrer; stuck it in there with the water and BD and gave it the once or twice over for several minutes. As expected, it all seperated as oil and water should and the wash was excellent. When the water comes through the biodiesel, it may not separate before it is suck up by the pump again. I would be really careful of a system like this unless you have a big water supply for the water wash and it is deep and the pick up point of the water is well below where the biodiesel and water meet. Irrelevant, see above. I think you could accomplish the same thing by putting a copper pipe through the biodiesel to the water, at the bottom. The copper pipe could have holes drilled in it at the water line, some above and some below. Then you could drill a bigger hole at the bottom of the copper pipe. Then you could run an air line through the pipe and bring it back around and put it in the hole at the bottom of the pipe and make sure the air hose is looking up. This way you could have the ultimate bubble wash as the air bubbles would bring the water from the bottom of the processor to the top and the water would go out the holes drilled at the top of the pipe and clean the biodiesel as it trickle backs down. I already have a bubble washer set up, I just don't want to do it that way. I have a wall of bubbles tube from the aquarium store that works well, and I have used it and it did work. The challenge is to get a pump to do it within the parameters that are allowed me. See my next post on a success story about that. As previously stated, you should make sure that the pipe is well below the point were biodiesel and water meet so you won't suck up any biodiesel and start to mix them up. Again, well made fuel won't be bothered by water/BD mixing as they will seperate out completely once the mixing stops. Luc Jeff From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] ultimate pump wash To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii ; format=flowed Hello Luc It's no ordinary watering can head: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_processor10.html Journey to Forever 90-litre processor Scroll down to processor lid. But all you need is the principle, of course, then adapt what you can find to do the same job in your set-up. As you're doing. I'm not quite clear on it though. The water gets pumped up and then falls like rain all over the surface of the BD - only the water? Or are you pumping BD as well, or mixed BD and water? If it's only the water, all you have is a sort of glorified mist-washer, with rain rather than mist. Well, maybe that's okay. But I'd've thought a pump would pull liquid out of the bottom faster than the water raining on top will percolate down, isn't it pulling BD as well, and mixing the water and BD? Is the BD getting mixed with water, or just rained on? regards Keith OK, this time I think I just might have gotten it :) I was re-reading through the 90 liter processor at JtF as I recalled something about a shower head being used. Well, it turned out to be a watering can head, but same idea. I have set up a system where the water is pumped up from the exit pipe in the Standpipe design http://www.veggieavenger.com/avengerboard/viewtopic.php?t=333) to the top of the wash tank and there it is distributed via a T section to fall like rain over the BD. It works, but still not to my satisfaction. Enter the watering can idea. Instead of the T section with perferated hose actiing as a distributor tomorow I am on the hunt for a pair of large, flat shower heads that can be used instead. That should do it once and for all. The water gets pumped up and then falls like rain all over the surface of the BD washing it as it sinks to the bottom and gets pumped back up again and again and again. And that should about do it for the Ultimate Pump Wash :) Other methods might work better but with the very limited head space I have to work with this it is for me. I will post an update (even if it doesn't work... but it will, ha!) I figure that with TWO shower heads the entire area should be suficiently covered so as to do a good job, and that is the only thing I will be satisfied with, a GOOD job. Luc ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup
[Biofuel] Ultimate Pump Wash
OK, I finally have something that seems to be doing the job right. It's not a watering can head (even the fancy Chinese kind), it's not a couple of versized shower heads either (although that would also work). I went to the hardware store determined to solve this tghing and found a thing called a ring sprinkler http://www.cornerhardware.com/item_263438/Lawn-Garden/Hoses-Sprinklers/Stationary-Sprinklers/SunMate-Ring-Sprinkler.html used for watering lawns or just for children to play in. I had to drill out the outside holes a bit so that it would point inward a bit more, but it works ! It covers the entire area with a rain and the water sinks quickly enough so that the BD doesn't mix which is somewhat of a bummer. I suppose going the route of a more powerful pump would suck it out at a rate that would also blend the BD with the water, and opening the exit from a 3/4-1/2 (which is what I have now) to a 3/4-1inch would also encourage the blending better. Too much of a royal pain to dismantle the whole thing right now to fiddle with it although winter may prove to be interesting. On a side note, I did contact the Wintron XC30 people and got a nice reply. I will be giving them a go for my B100 trying to stretch it out as long as possible. They already said they can't deal with -25C yet but are working on it :) Now that the pump wash thing is fixed (for the moment) time to make more BD. Luc ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
