on 20/8/01 6:23 AM, Prof. Uri Goldbourt at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Radcliffe, in the meanwhile is also developing into the world's greatest
whiner in atheletics.
Yegorova in particualer, or drug taking in general, had nothing to do with
Paula's failure to medal in the 10,000 M in Sydney or
on 20/8/01 12:21 AM, Alan Shank at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Looking back at Estevez' complaint, I'm coming around to his way of
thinking. To me, it does spoil the beauty of an international
championship to have a runner sacrifice himself to benefit a teammate.
For one thing, I think of track
By the way:
A careful look at Yegorva's achievement last year will demonstarte that her
progress was less enormous than many an athlete in the past, who still bask
in glory - Florence Griffith-Joyner a988 amazing breakthrough first and
foremost, but not only her
The positive EPO examination
Randall,
Some doubt is left after this as to who is one eyed.
But one or two eyes, let's keep an open mind.
Chhers,
UG
At 09:28 20/08/01 +0100, Randall Northam wrote:
on 20/8/01 6:23 AM, Prof. Uri Goldbourt at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Radcliffe, in the meanwhile is also developing into the
on 20/8/01 10:01 AM, Prof. Uri Goldbourt at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
A careful look at Yegorva's achievement last year will demonstarte that her
progress was less enormous than many an athlete in the past, who still bask
in glory - Florence Griffith-Joyner a988 amazing breakthrough first and
Geoff Pietsch schreef:
Yes, the pacing in major championships seems troubling, BUT should World
and Olympic Champions only be those who have the best kick? El G clearly is
the fastest 1500 runner in the world right now. Isn't he a more deserving
World Champion than a 3:31 or 3:32 guy who
I guess if we all weren't so Pro-American, we could
argue that SFH dropping out in Edmonton makes her more
guilty towards drug use. This way she didn't have to
get caught on the world stage.
I'm not accusing anyone here, but we never seem to see
Americans in the same light as the eastern
Message text written by INTERNET:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Though the rules seem to apply only to lapped runners providing pacing
assistance (Bob Hersh?), I feel that El Guerrouj and Kaouch should have
been
disqualified for violating the spirit of fair play, especially since
officials were aware of
And just how would you word that rule?
Buck Jones
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sunday, August 19, 2001 6:59 PM
Subject: Re: t-and-f: Morceli, El Guerrouj and pacing in
Hi!
I quite frankly don't understand what is the fuss about all
this drug/non-drug business.
In a society where everyone is on drugs, from recreational
purposes, medical purposes and even to get through the stresses
of every day life, I don't see any moral to ask these athletes
to behave as if
Amazing consistency indeed! good post.
I guess since the WR was set with a 2:46+ at 1200m split ... then if you are
2:46-high at 1200m it is not hyperbole for the announcer to state that he's
on WR pace ...
Additionally, since nobody has probably EVER run 2:45+ at 1200m and still
carried on to
To begin with... 1200 feet is hardly altitude. I get so frustrated when
people say that Edmonton is at altitude... blah blah blah had to deal with
the altitude, etc. Do you guys know how low 1200 feet is? There is no
conversion factor for 1200 feet and I would have to say that there is NO
You say Yegerova was demonised and singled out among most likely a
non-negligible number of athletes. I assume you mean that a lot of
athletes take EPO or some drugs. Yegerova is demonised because at the
World
Championships she was the only one that the charge can be levelled at with
Perhaps I am as one-eyed as Uri, but I think he has made a very valid point.
Merlene Ottey went on to compete in Sydney after testing positive for
nandrolone, but then being reintstated by IAAF due to technical errors.
The only controversy was whether or not she should be allowed to run
the
Steve Bennett wrote:
If you want to train to run good times over 1500 -1m but never win major
races do the following.
1. Do lots of long slow distance training.160km a week plus.
IIRC, Harald Norpoth, who was a deadly finisher, was coached by a guy
(forget his name) who advocated
In a message dated Mon, 20 Aug 2001 11:36:08 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Ed Dana
Parrot [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Don't get me wrong - if it looks like a duck, sounds like a duck and walks like a
duck, most of us (myself included) will believe that it is. The urine test is not
pretty
And please spare me the effects of a lifetime of drug
taking. Many drugs help us and nobody is thinking twice
about taking them when they need.
I think 3 or 4 times before I take ANY drug, including aspirin or cold
medicine. I know many other people who feel the same way. There is quite a
I guess if we all weren't so Pro-American, we could
argue that SFH dropping out in Edmonton makes her more
guilty towards drug use. This way she didn't have to
get caught on the world stage.
I'm not accusing anyone here, but we never seem to see
Americans in the same light as the eastern
In a message dated Sun, 19 Aug 2001 10:24:13 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Michael
Contopoulos [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Walt, as Bob said, why should El G be disqualified as everyone in that race had the
benefit of Kaouch, not just El G.
While I'm not joining the forces calling for a DQ, I do
B. Kunnath wrote:
Alan,
Great analysis! A little unfair to ElG to use the championship rabbit
excuse as his winning strategy. After all in a rabbited race, anyone can use
the services of the said rabbit. If all the runners know that ElG is the man
to beat, and they use the rabbit as much
Swedish commentator A. Lennart Julin had a watch on Borzakovskiy, and from there I was
able to deduce Czapiewski splits w/ relative certainty. Note that the Pole not only
negative splits the race in a 400/400 sense, he also does the same in the 200s of his
last 400. To run your fastest 200 of
How long will it be until we see a 3:25?
Thoughts?
Once a dependable urine test for EPO is developed, we will not see a 3:25
(or 12:35) for several years after that. Just like the levelling of women's
sprint times and weight event distances in both sexes since random testing
was introduced.
Hey, I wish that El G wouldn't use his countrymen as rabbits as well. BUT,
I don't feel as though it is worthy of disqualification. Lagat should have
gone out ahead of Kaouch and slowed the pace down. Or the Spanish should
have boxed him in. There are many ways to get around it that a true
Robert Hersh wrote:
Message text written by INTERNET:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Though the rules seem to apply only to lapped runners providing pacing
assistance (Bob Hersh?), I feel that El Guerrouj and Kaouch should have
been
disqualified for violating the spirit of fair play, especially since
Message text written by Michael Contopoulos
To begin with... 1200 feet is hardly altitude. I get so frustrated when
people say that Edmonton is at altitude..
I believe Edmonton's altitude is about 2100 feet, not 1200.
Randall Northam wrote:
on 20/8/01 12:21 AM, Alan Shank at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Looking back at Estevez' complaint, I'm coming around to his way of
thinking. To me, it does spoil the beauty of an international
championship to have a runner sacrifice himself to benefit a teammate.
Just so we understand each other Miguel.
You are trying to tell us to let society dictate morality, fairness,
and
righteousness. That simply is irresponsible, and a very immature way
to
conduct yourself. It is the Well everyone else was doing it!
attitude,
that has cost more than a
In my last post I corrected my typo of 1200 feet. My opinion stands, as I
was aware that it was 2200 (2217 to be exact I believe). If any race would
have felt an effect from altitude, it would have been the 5k, not the
1500... and they seemed just fine with it. In addition, IF there is any
In a message dated 8/20/01 9:38:55 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
By this reasoning, the winner should be DQ'ed in the 1500 at every GP meet
where there's a rabbit (which means at just about every GP meet). IAAF
rules, after all, apply to all international competition, not just the
World
One word:
Strides.
IIRC, Harald Norpoth, who was a deadly finisher, was coached by a guy
(forget his name) who advocated long, slow distance and very little
running at race pace or above.
Cheers,
Alan Shank
_
Get your FREE
In addition, IF there is any effect, after being there for a week or more,
one should have adjusted to it
to the point where it would not have effected their performance.
I completely agree that the altutude can not have been much of factor, and
not only that, even if it did have a tiny effect
What's with the concern over altitude at Edmonton? 2100 feet or so?
Recognized need for altitude adjustments according to the NCAA rulebook
begin at 3100.
In a message dated Tue, 14 Aug 2001 7:58:07 PM Eastern Daylight Time, malmo
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes (and subsequent posters have carried on in a different
thread):
That 'altitude' was killing the distance runners wasn't it? 2200' is just a little
higher than that high-altitude Mecca
One coach who may be overlooked at times is Gary Weineke at Illinois. he
has coached 6 or 7 of the top 800m guys in Big Ten history, including WC
and OG finalist Marko Koers and has had a 4 X 880 team set a world best.
Additionally, his record with what most would regard as mediocre and
Americans could have gone to that high altitude mecca we call Spokane (1900')
to prepare. ;)
Message text written by Michael Contopoulos
To begin with... 1200 feet is hardly altitude. I get so frustrated when
people say that Edmonton is at altitude..
I believe Edmonton's altitude is about
Perhaps the confusion over the Edmonton altitude has been a mistaken
assumption that the effects of altitude are linear when, in fact, they are
not. At 5500 ft, the 1500 is about 4-6s slower for MOST people. At 2100
ft someone might concluded then, that it should be 1-2s slower. This is
not
And Bob, please explain why what Kaouch did in 1999 and this year is any
different, in terms of fair play, than when a lapped (or about to be
lapped) runner provides pacing help to a teammate (which is covered in
the
IAAF rules).
Simple - a lapped runner can be at an advantage over the
Miguel Gonçalves wrote:
but in a sport where new training methods,
new shoes, new materials, new surfaces are quickly absorbed
why not the new pharmacological innovations!? Why do we
distrust so much science and all the sudden we want everyone
to be clean!
Many of the perfromancing enhancing
Air is remarkable stuff, particularly when its oxygen content becomes a
factor. The effects may seem so slight as to be inconsequential, but they
quickly add up.
The oxygen content is never a factor for track meets, because it doesn't
vary. The atmosphere is about 20% oxygen at sea level,
Hi everyone,
I have to admit, I'm not exactly in the mood to write
about my running over the past couple weeks. It's
been very frustrating, but Louis, the webmaster
of my website thought it would be a good idea to let
those who care know what's going on these days.
The 10 days or so before
You can partially
compensate for this by flooding the system with oxygen (i.e. breathing pure
O2 through a mask), but overall the problem is not one of availability of
oxygen per se, but of getting it into the blood with any efficiency.
Completely off the subject:
About 10 years ago I
Oleg Shpyrko wrote:
Interesting to note, that the two other morrocans in the final -
Adil Kaouch and Abdelkader Hachlaf - were by far the slowest two runners
in the field - they had PR's of 3:34.38 and 3:36.02, and season's bests
of 3:36.01 and 3:36.01 respectively. In fact, their seasons'
You could, of course, use O2 during training either with a max or a
superoxegenated training room on a treadmill. This might allow one to do
workouts previously not possible. It would be legal too.
On Mon, 20 Aug 2001, Mcewen, Brian T wrote:
You can partially
compensate for this by
I'm simply noting that not long ago Chelimo was an athlete who was in full
health. And today at 29 he is dead, he said.
It's probably much more a case of Chelimo drinking way too much 'home
brewed' alcohol than any drug use. Chelimo was a big time drinker and his
choice of poison'
On that note, let me ask some questions that I have been asking myself
regarding the drug situation in track and field ..
Why are we testing ??
A: Too protect people from themselves and too make the sport fair for those
who don't want to resort to drug use ... so they can theoretically
Neosho County CC is still looking for a field events coach. Please email me
off list. Check out our website for further info.
Yours in track,
Mike Cunningham
Head Track and Field/CC Coach
Neosho County Community College
(620) 431-2820 Ext. 272
www.neosho.cc.ks.us/athletic/track/track.htm
On Mon, 20 Aug 2001, lehane wrote:
Many of the perfromancing enhancing pharmacological innovations have
unacceptable health risks.
Arguably, so does competing clean at an elite level. It isn't healthy
to break bones or tear muscles and ligaments. It isn't healthy to neglact
friends and
LS
Some of the very fierce critics of SFH that are on this list will no doudt
suggest her story is bogus in one way or another.
But if it is even remotely close to how she has experienced the last few
weeks, I think she should be congratulated on a very open and insightful
account of some crucial
On Mon, 20 Aug 2001, P.F.Talbot wrote:
You could, of course, use O2 during training either with a max or a
superoxegenated training room on a treadmill. This might allow one to do
workouts previously not possible. It would be legal too.
Now this is taxing my memory from a class taken 4
I am in no way in favor of drug use .. However, I am definitely against
those things which hurt the sport ..
A: Want to stop things from hurting the sport? Start with the athletes who
cheat. Stop them from cheating ... and no more black eye for the sport. If
it is difficult, that doesn't
you know, Physicians Desk Reference, with thousands of pages of discussion of
pharmacopia. If i'm going to read non-stop drug bullshit, it might as well be written
by people who know what they're talking about.
how about a charter amendment that we set aside one month a year in which people
while catching up on episodes of Arli$$ that aired while we were in Edmonton, found
one where Ms. Jones had a significant speaking role.
Guess what? She's not bad! Already in the 99th percentile of all athletes I've ever
seen trying to display any thespian talents. Very believable delivery.
Garry Two Rs. Your insular life in the South Bay is much different from
that of 90 percent of the worlds population. Disease, crime and poverty
is the norm.
malmo
If i took the same view of everyday life that some of you do
about the sport, I'd see nothing but disease, crime and
poverty and
on 20/8/01 7:51 PM, Louis LeBlanc at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi everyone,
I have to admit, I'm not exactly in the mood to write
about my running over the past couple weeks. It's
Which Suzy is this? I assume Suzy Favor Hamilton but I can't be sure, could
be Suzy Creamcheese (60's
It was reported today on the local NPR radio that long time volunteer
assistant at Penn State University and a member of the 1948 Olympic
team, Herm Goftberg (sp) passed away on Friday. He had been under
medical care for the past 10 or years or so for cancer. Herm was also a
supporter of the
Contact:Tom Surber
Media Information Manager
USA Track Field
(317) 261-0500 x317
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.usatf.org
USATF NEWS NOTES
Volume 2, Number 73 August 20, 2001
Browne Glusac win USA Half-Marathon titles
Dan
Since the same mass of air at 10,000 feet will occupy about 25% more
volume, the same inhalation will have 25% less oxygen molecules it in.
Which is, of course, what causes the lower partial pressure.
My old physiology text book said it best:
This decrease in barometric air pressure (at
Gateshead results can be found at:
http://www.iaaf.org/Results/index.asp?Filename=/gp01/index.html
Kebba Tolbert ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
=
Men's and Women's Jumps Multis Coach
Syracuse University Track Field
_
Get
In a message dated Mon, 20 Aug 2001 7:04:23 PM Eastern Daylight Time, malmo
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Garry Two Rs. Your insular life in the South Bay is much different from that of 90
percent of the worlds population. Disease, crime and poverty is the norm.
and i bet they prefer to talk
from sportserver.com (IAAF website probably has full results and wind
readings)
Monday's Linz GP results
Men
100-1, Aziz Zakari, Ghana, 10.04 seconds. 2, Kim Collins, Saint Kitts-Navis,
10.10. 3, Christopher Williams, Jamaica, 10.11.
200-1, Shawn Crawford, United States, 20.46. 2, Kevin
Couldn't agree more and how many elite athletes would even attempt to let
us know what went down.
- Original Message -
From: Wilmar Kortleever [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: Louis LeBlanc [EMAIL PROTECTED]; TF List
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, August 20, 2001 4:45 PM
Subject: Re: t-and-f:
Dear Listers:
Does anyone have the result of MAI Galan in Malmo, Sweden
held on Monday, 20 August?
Thanks in advance.
Regards,
Yukito
--
MURAKI Yukito, Prof. Coach
Institute of Sport Science, University of Tsukuba
Tel(O):+81-298-532648
Why are we testing ??
A: Too protect people from themselves and too make the sport fair for
those
who don't want to resort to drug use ... so they can theoretically compete
on the oh-so-frequently-mentioned level playing field.
How does one define this level plaing field?? See original
None I hope, this stuff is suited for the Jerry Springer Show.
malmo
Couldn't agree more and how many elite athletes would even
attempt to let us know what went down.
- Original Message -
From: Wilmar Kortleever [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: Louis LeBlanc [EMAIL PROTECTED]; TF List
IAAF Grand Prix Gugl-Meeting
Linz, 20-Aug-2001
RESULTS MEN
100 METRES Heat 1 - MEN Wind: -0.3
1 Zakari Abdul AzizGHA 10.12
2 Emedolu Uchenna NGR 10.29
3 Jensen Jake USA 10.48
4
Netters
This statement:
I believe Edmonton's altitude is about 2100 feet, not 1200.
This is true and is equal to the Highest Point in WIsconsin, Known as Tim's
Hill.
There is NO effect on performance in either the sprints or distances at
2000 feet. The Air pressure is essentialy the same.
Here is the obit for Herm Goffberg from the Centre Daily Times (State
College PA)
http://web.centredaily.com/content/centredaily/2001/08/20/sports_local/psuobit.htm
Herm was a wonderful person and a great friend of athletics at all levels
in our community. He worked the finish line at Penn
Netters
Ed Dana Parrot writes:
However, if a physical adaptation DOES occur, then it stands to reason that even
with adaptation the times will be slower for distance runners.
There is no biological impetus for acclimatization to occur. Nor is a week
enough time for one to occur. Altitude
Monday's Linz GP results
200-1, Shawn Crawford, United States, 20.46. 2, Kevin Little, United
States, 20.57. 3, Jake Jenson, United States, 20.79.
This is getting ridiculous. We may need to send the Texas high schoolers
over there to shake things up!
Dan
=
http://AccountBiller.com -
Randall Northam, presumably not a North American, wrote:
Please don't assume that everyone who receives this list are North
Americans. Very arrogant assumption. Typical.
Cripes Randall, isn't it a bit arrogant to imply that North Americans are
typically arrogant? Couldn't you just have asked
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