[Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - (Ground)

se a last round of consultations, after which I will proceed with the voting. Thanks, Michael Da: mbranco2 Inviato: giovedì 16 luglio 2020 16:06 A: tagging@openstreetmap.org Oggetto: Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - (Ground) natural=bare_soil sounds g

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - (Ground)

nhoefer > *Inviato:* mercoledì 15 luglio 2020 10:08 > *A:* Tag discussion, strategy and related tools > > *Oggetto:* Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - (Ground) > > > > Am Mi., 15. Juli 2020 um 09:45 Uhr schrieb Martin Koppenhoefer < > dieterdre...@gmail.com>:

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - (Ground)

natural=bare_soil sounds good to me, maybe it should be useful to set a maximum vegetation percentage (30% ?) If not, someone could say "Hey, there are two bushes in that area, it's not bare soil" <#m_-8688031786923632378_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

[Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - (Ground)

.ungsc.org<http://www.ungsc.org> Da: Martin Koppenhoefer Inviato: mercoledì 15 luglio 2020 10:08 A: Tag discussion, strategy and related tools Oggetto: Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - (Ground) Am Mi., 15. Juli 2020 um 09:45 Uhr schrieb Martin Koppen

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - (Ground)

Am Mi., 15. Juli 2020 um 09:45 Uhr schrieb Martin Koppenhoefer < dieterdre...@gmail.com>: > If you are interested in reading some interesting thoughts about landcover > classification, there is the FAO landcover classification system, thought > to be useful globally: >

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - (Ground)

Am Di., 14. Juli 2020 um 18:24 Uhr schrieb Volker Schmidt : > I suggested this as a helpful guide when defining tag values. I don't > think it can be used one-to-one for OSM. > Bare ground, BTW, can be found also the area covered by CORINE, as it > includes the Sahara for example) > right, but

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - (Ground)

I found interesting the Corine definition for "3.3.3 Sparsely vegetated areas" [1] : it refers to various scenarios, and specify a percentage (10%-50%, or "less than 50%") for vegetation landcover. In the similar American paper [2] mentioned in a previous post, we find for barren land (page 18):

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - (Ground)

I suggested this as a helpful guide when defining tag values. I don't think it can be used one-to-one for OSM. Bare ground, BTW, can be found also the area covered by CORINE, as it includes the Sahara for example) Volker On Tue, 14 Jul 2020 at 18:01, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: > > > sent from

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - (Ground)

sent from a phone > On 14. Jul 2020, at 17:36, mbranco2 wrote: > > Unluckily it's only about part of Europe (from 62°N to 28°S, from 14°W to > 29°E) > The working scale of the project was 1/10, and the smallest mapping unit > was 25 hectares. thank you for mentioning significant

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - (Ground)

*"...Said this, why not try to use CORINE [1] definitions?"* Thank you Voschix to mention this paper, searching the ISBN code (ISBN 92-826-2578-8) I was able to download it from researchgate.net (it's a pdf with 120 pages). Unluckily it's only about part of Europe (from 62°N to 28°S, from 14°W to

[Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - (Ground)

to:m...@un.org> | www.ungsc.org<http://www.ungsc.org> Da: Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging Inviato: martedì 14 luglio 2020 15:29 A: Tag discussion, strategy and related tools Cc: Mateusz Konieczny ; Tag discussion, strategy and related tools Oggetto: Re: [Tagging] F

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - (Ground)

Maybe. I would be interested in specific proposals. 14 Jul 2020, 14:24 by vosc...@gmail.com: > I am not a land cover expert, but have come across a great number of > obviously wrong land cover tagging in OSM.  > Said this, why not try to use CORINE [1] definitions? > > [1] > >

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - (Ground)

I am not a land cover expert, but have come across a great number of obviously wrong land cover tagging in OSM. Said this, why not try to use CORINE [1] definitions? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coordination_of_Information_on_the_Environment On Tue, 14 Jul 2020, 11:52 Christoph Hormann,

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - (Ground)

> Joseph Eisenberg hat am 13. Juli 2020 um 22:34 > geschrieben: > > https://www.flickr.com/photos/chrishunkeler/32097822997 > I think this is a great example why more specific tags are advisable to use in OSM than a generic bare ground tag. What this picture shows is commonly known as

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - (Ground)

Most Australian deserts cannot be mapped as a consistent land cover but as a patchwork combination of differing land covers. As such mapping the land cover is a time intensive task and given the usefulness of such information compared to other priorities is not something that would be done any

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - (Ground)

Has as an example been found yet?   There are areas that are void of vegetation for most of the year, or even years, that change with the right amount of rain. On 7/13/20 3:47 PM, Joseph Eisenberg wrote: Many desert climates can be mapped as natural=sand (for dunes and other areas of sand),

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - (Ground)

Many desert climates can be mapped as natural=sand (for dunes and other areas of sand), natural=bare_rock (for bedrock and large stones), natural=scree, natural=shingle, or natural=heath (for areas of dwarf shrubs), but we still need a tag for unvegetated areas which are not sand, rock, stones or

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - (Ground)

That's OSM in a nutshell. Mvg Peter Elderson > Op 13 jul. 2020 om 23:24 heeft Martin Koppenhoefer > het volgende geschreven: > >  > > sent from a phone > >> On 13. Jul 2020, at 23:16, Peter Elderson wrote: >> >> As I understand it, it is soil. That is something. > > > sure, you could

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - (Ground)

sent from a phone > On 13. Jul 2020, at 23:16, Peter Elderson wrote: > > As I understand it, it is soil. That is something. sure, you could also spend a lifetime mapping rocks, and when you’re done, you start mapping smaller rocks ;) Cheers Martin

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - (Ground)

As I understand it, it is soil. That is something. Vr gr Peter Elderson Op ma 13 jul. 2020 om 23:09 schreef Martin Koppenhoefer < dieterdre...@gmail.com>: > > > sent from a phone > > > On 13. Jul 2020, at 22:36, Joseph Eisenberg > wrote: > > > > The Atacama desert has many areas of bare sand

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - (Ground)

sent from a phone > On 13. Jul 2020, at 22:36, Joseph Eisenberg > wrote: > > The Atacama desert has many areas of bare sand and rock, but also some places > with mixed stoney soil: how would you map this? Are we going to map the voids? Usually in an area like this I would expect that a

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - (Ground)

rmation and Telecommunications Technologies* > United Nations Global Service Centre > United Nations Department of Operational Support > > Brindisi | Phone: +39 0831 056985 | Mobile: +39 3297193455 | Intermission: > 158 6985 > E-mail: michael.mont...@un.org | www.ungsc.org &

[Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - (Ground)

w.ungsc.org<http://www.ungsc.org> Da: Joseph Eisenberg Inviato: domenica 12 luglio 2020 21:15 A: Tag discussion, strategy and related tools Oggetto: Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - (Ground) The link [2] to https://www.hq.nasa.gov/iwgsdi/Barren_Land.

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - (Ground)

The link [2] to https://www.hq.nasa.gov/iwgsdi/Barren_Land.html has these categories: *1.2.2.2.1 Bare Exposed Rock*: Those ecosystems characterized by areas of bedrock exposure, desert pavement, scarps, talus, slides, volcanic material, rock glaciers, and other accumulations of rock without

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - (Ground)

On Sun, 12 Jul 2020 19:36:10 +0200 mbranco2 wrote: > Maybe images was shot in a particular season, and the soil condition > is not always the same? > Well, if I check several imageries and in all of them I see a > "desertic land", I'm confident I can map that area with the tag we're > talking

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - (Ground)

On Sun, 12 Jul 2020 at 13:36, mbranco2 wrote: > ... > And I think that we could map such characteristic even with only imagery > (without direct survey), because it's a "macro" feature, as is a wood or a > scrub. > ... > Surely it could be useful if botanists and/or geologists could better

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - (Ground)

I hope that this discussion and the related proposal wiki page will lead to a solution, because I found several times, mapping in Africa with HOT projects, "desertic lands" and I didn't find a tag for this. If we search the Internet for "barren soil", we can find a lot of ground-level related

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - (Ground)

On Fri, Jul 10, 2020 at 1:34 PM Matthew Woehlke wrote: > > The car park in town, is that barren? > If it's well maintained, hopefully it is. If it's crumbling, it might > not be! My previous residence had a paved driveway that, strictly > speaking, was not barren. In a wet climate like the one I

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - (Ground)

On Fri, 10 Jul 2020 at 19:19, Michael Montani wrote: > > Tag: natural = bare_ground (but many other options are open to discussion). > Description: "An area covered by soil, without any vegetation" > I agree that we need some way to tag areas like those in Somalia that you posted, but I have

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - (Ground)

On 10/07/2020 11.25, Paul Allen wrote: On Fri, 10 Jul 2020 at 15:41, Matthew Woehlke wrote: On 10/07/2020 09.32, Paul Allen wrote: On Fri, 10 Jul 2020 at 14:10, Mateusz Konieczny wrote: barren is horrible as it can be easily interpreted as including also paved surfaces, Ummm, not really.

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - (Ground)

On Fri, 10 Jul 2020 at 15:41, Matthew Woehlke wrote: > On 10/07/2020 09.32, Paul Allen wrote: > > On Fri, 10 Jul 2020 at 14:10, Mateusz Konieczny wrote: > >> barren is horrible as it can be easily interpreted as including also > paved > >> surfaces, > > > > Ummm, not really. Not in British

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - (Ground)

On 10/07/2020 09.32, Paul Allen wrote: On Fri, 10 Jul 2020 at 14:10, Mateusz Konieczny wrote: barren is horrible as it can be easily interpreted as including also paved surfaces, Ummm, not really. Not in British English. I'd never describe paved surfaces as barren. Technically, I suppose

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - (Ground)

I think bare_soil or barren_soil are ok values for bare/barren soil. I am convinced that these areas exist, bare soil without spontaneous vegetation, whatever causes it to remain bare for many years. Barren sounds to me to imply nothing can grow there.Bare sounds more neutral and factual to me,

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - (Ground)

On Fri, 10 Jul 2020 at 14:10, Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging < tagging@openstreetmap.org> wrote: > > Jul 10, 2020, 15:04 by pla16...@gmail.com: > > I've just realized what prompted the back of my mind into writing the > preceding paragraph. landcover=barren (or natural=barren) seems > to handle

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - (Ground)

Jul 10, 2020, 15:04 by pla16...@gmail.com: > I've just realized what prompted the back of my mind into writing the > preceding paragraph.  landcover=barren (or natural=barren) seems > to handle things nicely without worrying about soil/clay/humus > distinctions. > barren is horrible as it can

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - (Ground)

On Fri, 10 Jul 2020 at 13:19, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote: > On 10/7/20 9:30 pm, Peter Elderson wrote: > > Looks like humus is a component of soil. So I think soil covers it, being > a top layer consisting of mixed organic and mineral matter. > > To me it is hard to imagine an area as

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - (Ground)

sent from a phone > On 10. Jul 2020, at 14:40, Kevin Kenny wrote: > > I'd imagine that pollution and erosion would result in a surface of mineral, > rather than organic soil; lack of water still remains a possibility. For small areas you can also imagine so many people walking or driving

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - (Ground)

On Fri, Jul 10, 2020 at 8:19 AM Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote: > On 10/7/20 9:30 pm, Peter Elderson wrote: > > Looks like humus is a component of soil. So I think soil covers it, being > a top layer consisting of mixed organic and mineral matter. > > To me it is hard to imagine an area as

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - (Ground)

//www.ungsc.org> *Da:* Peter Elderson mailto:pelder...@gmail.com>> *Inviato:* venerdì 10 luglio 2020 12:02 *A:* Tag discussion, strategy and related tools mailto:tagging@openstreetmap.org>> *Oggetto:* Re: [Tagging] Fe

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - (Ground)

sent from a phone > On 10. Jul 2020, at 13:33, Peter Elderson wrote: > > To me it is hard to imagine an area as permanently natural=bare_soil. > Wouldn't there always be some kind of vegetation within a year? not if there isn’t water at all, or if it is heavily contaminated Cheers

[Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - (Ground)

..@un.org> | www.ungsc.org<http://www.ungsc.org> [cid:55088391-3951-4b49-93bf-e38fd2876f34] Da: Christoph Hormann Inviato: venerdì 10 luglio 2020 12:00 A: Tag discussion, strategy and related tools Oggetto: Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - (Ground) Independent

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - (Ground)

-- > *Da:* Peter Elderson > *Inviato:* venerdì 10 luglio 2020 12:02 > *A:* Tag discussion, strategy and related tools > > *Oggetto:* Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - (Ground) > > Organic without any mineral, would you still call that soil? > > Vr gr Peter Elderson >

[Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - (Ground)

g discussion, strategy and related tools Oggetto: Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - (Ground) Organic without any mineral, would you still call that soil? Vr gr Peter Elderson Op vr 10 jul. 2020 om 11:55 schreef Martin Koppenhoefer mailto:dieterdre...@gmail.com>>: sent from a phone

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - (Ground)

sent from a phone > On 10. Jul 2020, at 12:05, Peter Elderson wrote: > > Organic without any mineral, would you still call that soil? I’d call it humus, not sure whether the term soil can apply or not, I am not a native English speaker. Cheers Martin

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - (Ground)

Organic without any mineral, would you still call that soil? Vr gr Peter Elderson Op vr 10 jul. 2020 om 11:55 schreef Martin Koppenhoefer < dieterdre...@gmail.com>: > > > sent from a phone > > > On 10. Jul 2020, at 11:39, Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging < > tagging@openstreetmap.org> wrote: > >

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - (Ground)

Independent of what i already said in https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/tagging/2020-July/053795.html i am always wary of tags lacking any examples for on-the-ground mapping or a practically locally verifiable definition. And defining a tag negatively trough the lack of something

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - (Ground)

sent from a phone > On 10. Jul 2020, at 11:39, Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging > wrote: > > Why it would be natural=bare_ground rather than natural=bare_soil? +1, I also disagree that “soil can be organic or mineral”. It has typically both, organic and mineral components, but organic

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - (Ground)

Why it would be natural=bare_ground rather than natural=bare_soil? Using "ground" and defining it as "soil, not all kinds of ground" will not go well. natural=bare_ground for me is clearly including also natural=bare_rock, while natural=bare_soil would avoid this Jul 10, 2020, 11:16 by

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - (Ground)

"meant any soil area (which can be organic or mineral" - what you mean by that? Soil is mixture of mineral and organic material. See also https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Landcover_Barren It seems that this proposal avoid many mistakes of this very similar one, but

[Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - (Ground)

Dear mappers, after the discussion we had through the tagging ML "Are we mapping ground on OSM?", it has been open a feature proposal to map ground on OSM. Tag: natural = bare_ground (but many other options are open to