Re: [Tagging] Tagging type of ownership of a road

On Apr 16, 2023, at 3:10 PM, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: >> On 16 Apr 2023, at 23:28, Jens Glad Balchen via Tagging >> wrote: >> If the operator tag is missing and the owner tag is present, isn't it the >> general assumption that the owner is also the operator -- i.e. that the >> owner

Re: [Tagging] Tagging type of ownership of a road

sent from a phone > On 16 Apr 2023, at 23:28, Jens Glad Balchen via Tagging > wrote: > > If the operator tag is missing and the owner tag is present, isn't it the > general assumption that the owner is also the operator -- i.e. that the owner > information is a relevant substitute for the

Re: [Tagging] Tagging type of ownership of a road

On Apr 16, 2023, at 2:23 PM, Jens Glad Balchen via Tagging wrote: > > On 16.04.2023 21:40, stevea wrote: >>> Isn't it a general assumption for everything that the owner is the operator >>> by default? I'm not saying "isn't it always true", but isn't that generally >>> the assumption if no

Re: [Tagging] Tagging type of ownership of a road

On 16.04.2023 21:40, stevea wrote: Isn't it a general assumption for everything that the owner is the operator by default? I'm not saying "isn't it always true", but isn't that generally the assumption if no other information is presented? An obviously dangerous slope to slip down here and

Re: [Tagging] Tagging type of ownership of a road

stevea writes: >> What is a point problem? > > Mmm, that IS a good question. Sorry, I meant that the proposal is a point solution, meaning one that applies to a very narrow view of the problem. Basically I meant what stevea just said. ___ Tagging

Re: [Tagging] Tagging type of ownership of a road

I wish to remain restrained in my reply here. > Isn't it a general assumption for everything that the owner is the operator > by default? I'm not saying "isn't it always true", but isn't that generally > the assumption if no other information is presented? An obviously dangerous slope to slip

Re: [Tagging] Tagging type of ownership of a road

On 16.04.2023 16:55, Greg Troxel wrote: If we look at this from a data perspective, the most important information for us to capture /today/ is which public entity type owns the road and put this in the ownership tag. The specific entity can be derived geographically with probably 100%

Re: [Tagging] Tagging type of ownership of a road

Jens Glad Balchen via Tagging writes: > I don't know how this works in other countries. The way it works here > is that the road owner contracts someone to do stuff, that is, to > actually go out and put down asphalt, cut vegetation, sweep debris, > clear snow, fix signage, etc. The road owner

Re: [Tagging] Tagging type of ownership of a road

Tod Fitch writes: > Greg mentions that in his part of the US the government doesn’t own > the land along the highway. I don’t believe that is true for most of > the US. The “right of way” includes a lot more land than just where > the pavement is located. It includes all land that had to be

Re: [Tagging] Tagging type of ownership of a road

We're ocassionally using "operator" around here to mark who is comissioned with the maintenance of parts of roads, it is different from ownership I agree (generally it depends on the country how and on whom public property is registered, and which kind of property is registered how (buildings vs.

Re: [Tagging] Tagging type of ownership of a road

On 14.04.2023 10:13, Volker Schmidt wrote: Ownership is not relevant if you think in terms of fixmystreet.. Just two extreme examples. * The Italian Motorway network is owned by the Italian via a state-majority public company, and operated by several different private or state-owned

Re: [Tagging] Tagging type of ownership of a road

Ownership is not relevant if you think in terms of fixmystreet.. Just two extreme examples. - The Italian Motorway network is owned by the Italian via a state-majority public company, and operated by several different private or state-owned companies that to all effects own specific

Re: [Tagging] Tagging type of ownership of a road

On 14/4/23 08:14, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote: On Fri, 14 Apr 2023 at 03:06, Tod Fitch wrote: the toll roads in my area. They are, I believe, owned by a toll road authority Owned, or leased? Around here, toll roads & bridges are built by the Govt, using public funds, then the

Re: [Tagging] Tagging type of ownership of a road

On 14.04.2023 09:13, Peter Neale wrote: Well, to me, "type of ownership" suggests values such as "freehold"; "leasehold"; "rented", which I _don't_ think is what is intended. I agree that "type of" is ambiguous, but the same applies to "ownership". Neither is fully understood by just

Re: [Tagging] Tagging type of ownership of a road

Well, to me, "type of ownership" suggests values such as "freehold"; "leasehold"; "rented", which I _don't_ think is what is intended. I think we should avoid the word "type" if at all possible.  Regards,Peter(PeterPan99) On Friday, 14 April 2023 at 08:07:44 BST, Jens Glad Balchen via

Re: [Tagging] Tagging type of ownership of a road

On 14.04.2023 00:30, stevea wrote: A search might be able to discern "in which" jurisdiction(s) a road is found, much like a geocoder works with a minimal amount of data "scattered around" (geographically) enough to determine "close enough to a node to be associated with it" (as a place, for

Re: [Tagging] Tagging type of ownership of a road

Thanks fellas, both fair comments! Graeme On Fri, 14 Apr 2023 at 13:15, Andrew Harvey wrote: > > On Fri, 14 Apr 2023 at 08:17, Graeme Fitzpatrick > wrote: > >> On Thu, 13 Apr 2023 at 20:48, Greg Troxel wrote: >> >>> (admin_level 4/6/8, normally). >>> >> >> Would it work to add the

Re: [Tagging] Tagging type of ownership of a road

On Fri, 14 Apr 2023 at 08:17, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote: > On Thu, 13 Apr 2023 at 20:48, Greg Troxel wrote: > >> (admin_level 4/6/8, normally). >> > > Would it work to add the admin_level= to the road to say which level of > Government owns it? > > Then I would think that a search should be

Re: [Tagging] Tagging type of ownership of a road

As a quick addition to my previous post, the "park_level" proto-proposal (circa 2009) had its syntax potentially refined to become park:public_level=*, which is the section immediately below the referenced wiki entry. All ideas and discussion so far, everyone. But if we've spun similar wheels

Re: [Tagging] Tagging type of ownership of a road

On Apr 13, 2023, at 3:11 PM, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote: > On Thu, 13 Apr 2023 at 20:48, Greg Troxel wrote: > (admin_level 4/6/8, normally). > > Would it work to add the admin_level= to the road to say which level of > Government owns it? No, it wouldn't. It would add confusion and ambiguity

Re: [Tagging] Tagging type of ownership of a road

On Fri, 14 Apr 2023 at 03:06, Tod Fitch wrote: > the toll roads in my area. They are, I believe, owned by a toll road > authority > Owned, or leased? Around here, toll roads & bridges are built by the Govt, using public funds, then the actual operation is leased to a private company, who

Re: [Tagging] Tagging type of ownership of a road

On Thu, 13 Apr 2023 at 20:48, Greg Troxel wrote: > (admin_level 4/6/8, normally). > Would it work to add the admin_level= to the road to say which level of Government owns it? Then I would think that a search should be able to say that this is an AL2 highway in the country of Norway, so owned

Re: [Tagging] Tagging type of ownership of a road

I am no expert on the subject but from what I see in my part of California things can get very confusing. Take, for example, the toll roads in my area. They are, I believe, owned by a toll road authority which is a governmental entity specifically created to finance, build and manage the toll

Re: [Tagging] Tagging type of ownership of a road

Hi Greg. Those are valid concerns. I don't know how this works in other countries. The way it works here is that the road owner contracts someone to do stuff, that is, to actually go out and put down asphalt, cut vegetation, sweep debris, clear snow, fix signage, etc. The road owner can

Re: [Tagging] Tagging type of ownership of a road

Jens Glad Balchen via Tagging writes: > That does seem to capture it when used on roads. I see it's mostly > used for private roads. Is this tag use undisputed if used with > national/state/county/municipal? E.g. do people object to it being > redudant? You said you didn't like operator, and I

Re: [Tagging] Tagging type of ownership of a road

On Thu, 2023-04-13 at 09:59 +0200, Jens Glad Balchen via Tagging wrote: > That does seem to capture it when used on roads. I see it's mostly > used > for private roads. Is this tag use undisputed if used with > national/state/county/municipal? E.g. do people object to it being > redudant? I

Re: [Tagging] Tagging type of ownership of a road

Jens Glad Balchen via Tagging : > Thank you Timeo. > > It seems the designation tag was meant for something else, and only used > for this purpose in the Philippines. Do you think this usage would be > beneficial in other countries? > If the owner of the road can be inferred from its

Re: [Tagging] Tagging type of ownership of a road

Thank you Timeo. It seems the designation tag was meant for something else, and only used for this purpose in the Philippines. Do you think this usage would be beneficial in other countries? Jens On 13.04.2023 10:00, Timeo Gut wrote: In the Philippines we use designation

Re: [Tagging] Tagging type of ownership of a road

In the Philippines we use designation to record the legal classification of public roads: designation=national_road/provincial_road/municipal_road/etc. This directly indicates ownership and financial responsibility. But maintenance might

Re: [Tagging] Tagging type of ownership of a road

Thank you Mark. That does seem to capture it when used on roads. I see it's mostly used for private roads. Is this tag use undisputed if used with national/state/county/municipal? E.g. do people object to it being redudant? Jens On 13.04.2023 09:45, Mark Reidel wrote: On Thu, 2023-04-13 at

Re: [Tagging] Tagging type of ownership of a road

On Thu, 2023-04-13 at 08:58 +0200, Jens Glad Balchen via Tagging wrote: > The status quo for "car" roads in Norway seems to be that state roads > are highway=motorway or highway=trunk, county roads are > highway=primary > or highway=secondary, and municipal roads are highway=tertiary and so > on.

Re: [Tagging] Tagging type of ownership of a road

Thanks Martin. The operator tag seems to be concerned with different, but probably sometimes partially overlapping, information. It doesn't seem suited to capture the type of road authority. Jens On 13.04.2023 09:28, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: sent from a phone On 13 Apr 2023, at 09:04,

Re: [Tagging] Tagging type of ownership of a road

sent from a phone > On 13 Apr 2023, at 09:04, Jens Glad Balchen via Tagging > wrote: > > I couldn't find an official way to capture this information in OSM. > Is there one? you could use the operator tag (although it doesn’t relate to ownership, it is about the entity in charge of

[Tagging] Tagging type of ownership of a road

Hi. In Norway, roads are owned by the state, a county, a municipality, or a private entity. Ownership of the road implies general responsibility for maintenance and authority over signage and usage. I assume most countries divide road ownership and authority in a similar way. As an example