date:20181209

Got it, thanks! Those ropes did look strange, didn't they? :-)

Sergio


On 2018-12-10 04:25, Michael Patrick wrote:
>
> ... beside, are you sure those hooks are for hammocks? How can you hang 3 
> hammocks radially from the center point? There doesn't seems to be enough 
> "angle" between them... Have you ever seen an actual hammock hanging from 
> there? Presence of the ropes makes me think they are thought for something 
> else...
>
>
> Oh, he is correct, it's even labeled as such. The 'ropes' are drawn in for 
> illustration.
>
> And I retract my suggestion, to hell with English, this is a case where the 
> non-English term is /vastly/ superior, more specific and expressive 
> .
>  And it is a beautiful sound. 
>
> Michael Patrick
>


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Re: [Tagging] emergency=control_centre

2018-12-09 Thread Daniel Koć

W dniu 10.12.2018 o 00:33, EthnicFood IsGreat pisze:
> That is an unrealistic, pie-in-the-sky goal.  As long as mappers are
> free to use any tag they like, and OSM is a mishmash of tags, how
> could anyone rely on it for anything very important?


Good question. And the answer is - don't underestimate how big OSM
ecosystem is and don't try to limit how is it really used, because you
would be surprised...

In Poland we have a  commercial implementation of GIS system in State
Fire Service using OSM data (not exclusively):

https://translate.google.pl/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fopenstreetmap.org.pl%2F2013%2Fpanstwowa-straz-pozarna-poznaje-osm%2F

Video of presentation from SotM PL 2018 is here (in Polish, maybe some
translation will be available):

https://youtu.be/etFl6e7Ew00?t=3120


-- 
"Excuse me, I have some growing up to do" [P. Gabriel]



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Re: [Tagging] Tagging Digest, Vol 111, Issue 60

2018-12-09 Thread Michael Patrick

> ... beside, are you sure those hooks are for hammocks? How can you hang 3
> hammocks radially from the center point? There doesn't seems to be enough
> "angle" between them... Have you ever seen an actual hammock hanging from
> there? Presence of the ropes makes me think they are thought for something
> else...
>

Oh, he is correct, it's even labeled as such. The 'ropes' are drawn in for
illustration.

And I retract my suggestion, to hell with English, this is a case where the
non-English term is *vastly* superior, more specific and expressive
.
And it is a beautiful sound.

Michael Patrick
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Re: [Tagging] leisure=hammock_hook (Sérgio V.)

2018-12-09 Thread Michael Patrick

>
> Hi, I've found a playground equipment that is made to hang hammocks.
> It's a kind of industrialized urban furniture specially made for it.
> This one consists of a central fixed pole and hook that can hang a limited
> number of hammocks in a radial disposition, each one with its other pole
> and hook (but it might exist other dispositions)
> We have no tag for "places for hammocks" until now.
>
> I was thinking if it could be tagged as:
> leisure=hammock_hook
> since what effectively assures its proper function is that it has hooks to
> hang hammocks.
> What do you think? Thank you in advance.
>

At least in the USA, the term "hammock hangout" (lowercase) appears in the
Hammockish sub-culture vernacular to be a place or event where single, but
far more prevalent, multiple hammocks can be installed on an ad hoc or
permanent basis.

The suspension technique isn't limited to just hooks, there are loops,
eyes, etc. - and the vertical supports are anything from natural trees to
building walls. The park equipment manufacturers use the rather bland
'stand' and the less common 'station'.

My preference would be the hammock_hangout, if you were to use some variant
of leisure=hammock_hook, it maybe should be hammock_hooks (plural), because
just a single hook available entails a less than optimum hammock
experience.

Michael Patrick
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Re: [Tagging] Can OSM become a geospatial database?

2018-12-09 Thread Kevin Kenny

On Sun, Dec 9, 2018 at 6:19 PM EthnicFood IsGreat
 wrote:
> > Most probably you would not want to look for all "brooks", because
> > "brook" is just one of multiple words that mean the same thing. There is
> > no semantic difference between a "brook" and a "stream" in general
> > nowadays. Its just that in different regions of the english speaking
> > world different words were commonly used, and people in America used
> > whatever word they were familiar with.
>
> So true.

Yes, indeed. In my part of the world, common words in the name of a
watercourse include:

river - Usually but not always a major river: the Hutchinson River or
Bronx River are pretty small over most of their length. Can also be a
tidal channel (East River, Harlem River). A major river will usually
keep its name even in the estuarine environment. (Hudson River
salinity varies but is usually still salt in Tarrytown in a dry
season, and the river is tidal as far as Troy.) To the north of me
there are many small streams named 'river' because English conquerors
translated French 'rivière', which refers to the order of a
watercourse and not its size (a 'fleuve' flows to the sea, a 'rivière'
to fresh water).

creek - can be any size from a trickle to a sizable river like the
Schoharie Creek, or can be a tidal estuary.

kill - can be any size from a trickle to a mid-size river (Roeliff
Janssen Kill, Normanskill, Catskill, Kaaterskill, Sawkill, etc.), or
can be a tidal estuary (Arthur Kill, Kill van Kull). Usually named by
Dutch settlers.

brook - Usually small, will sometimes still cross over to 'river' by
OSM's definition. Often named by Dutch settlers, but the English also
used 'brook' to translate French 'ruisseau'.

run - Usually small.

stream - Usually small.

fork - Any size, generally a tributary of a larger watercourse.

branch - Any size, generally a tributary of a larger watercourse.
(Farther south, 'branch' can mean any small stream.)

inlet, outlet - Used for (usually small) watercourses that are short
and connect a lake or pond to another waterbody.

The fact that the name of a watercourse indicates any one of these
words most emphatically does NOT provide any reliable indication about
its type, order, size or variablilty.  The Schoharie Creek is a major
river with several hydroelectric power stations and reservoirs along
its length. The Marble River up in Franklin County is only a few km
long, and I can wade or rock-hop it pretty much anywhere along its
length.

And they are NOT misnamed. Sorry, but English doesn't work that way.
Putting a different word in the 'name' field of any of these
watercourses would be 100% wrong. 'Schoharie Creek' can be called 'the
Schoharie' colloquially when it's unambiguous, but call it 'Schoharie
Brook' and people will look at you as if you have two heads. The
Normanskill isn't the 'Normanskill Creek' or 'Normanskill River', nor
is it the 'Norman Creek' or 'Norman River' - its name is what it is.

You cannot expect English to follow the grammatical rules of Russian.

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[Tagging] iD news - 2.12.0 released 🎉

2018-12-09 Thread Bryan Housel

Last week, after several months of work, we released iD v2.12.0 for editing
OpenStreetMap.
I hope you like it! Here are some of the highlights from the release:

✌️ 2-finger pan and zoom gestures
Mac users can now use 2 finger trackpad gestures to pan and zoom the map.
Try swiping with 2 fingers to pan, or pinching out/in to zoom and unzoom.
You'll be less likely to accidentally drag nodes!

🔻 Directional way markers
iD now draws triangular markers on the "down" side of ways where the direction
matters. Thanks, Huon Wilson for this feature!
Ways with a direction include cliffs, coastlines, retaining walls, kerbs, guard
rails, embankments.

↔️ Resizable sidebar
You can now resize the sidebar, or hide it completely. Shout out to Quincy
Morgan for his work on this!
Try dragging the sidebar to resize it, or click the hide button in the top
toolbar. The top bar buttons can also shrink on narrower screens.

🍔 Brand Name Suggestions
We've released a huge upgrade to the brand name suggestions in iD. Thank you to
everyone who volunteered to match brand names to their proper OpenStreetMap
tags. Follow the brand name suggestion project here:
https://github.com/osmlab/name-suggestion-index

Try adding some branded businesses to the map - `brand`, `brand:wikidata`, and
other tags will be set for you.

📎 More Wikidata integration
iD now displays linked data if a feature has a wikidata tag, and will protect
fields like name and brand from direct editing.
Make sure prominent features have a Wikidata tag, for added protection against
accidental changes.

🔆 More features for working with relations
Hovering over a relation or member in the sidebar will highlight it on the map.
You can also download incomplete sections, and zoom to inspect relation
children. Thanks, Quincy Morgan!
Check out the "All Relations" and "All Members" sections of the sidebar to try
out the new relation editing tools.

👩‍💻 Hacktoberfest happened!
We merged 40 pull requests during the month of October. Thank you to all of our
new contributors!

As always, the update includes many other usability improvements and new
presets - check out the changelog for all the details.
(It’s pretty epic, thanks to the dozens of people who worked on this release!)

Changelog:
v2.12.0 changelog:
https://github.com/openstreetmap/iD/blob/master/CHANGELOG.md#2120

Twitter:
v2.12.0 announcement: https://twitter.com/bhousel/status/1070068684297768960

Quincy shows off the new features:
https://twitter.com/quincylvania/status/1070176229620244481

Reddit:
Thread:
https://www.reddit.com/r/openstreetmap/comments/a39y2b/the_new_features_of_id_2120_in_one_twitter_thread/

Follow and star the iD project on GitHub to show your support:
https://github.com/openstreetmap/iD
And follow me on Twitter https://twitter.com/bhousel
for the latest iD news.

Thank you!
❤️ Bryan, and the rest of the 🆔 team.

P.S.
We are getting together in NYC to hack on iD during the week of Dec 17-21 at
the Facebook office. Space is limited, so please private message me if you
want to attend! We also have started a bi-weekly sync for the core development
team. If you want to work on iD, we’d love your help!

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Re: [Tagging] Can OSM become a geospacial database?

2018-12-09 Thread Michael Patrick

> Can OSM become a geospatial database?
>
>  It currently fits almost any definition of 'GeoSpatial' database. Even if
you ignore any intrinsic properties you might select to define
'GeoSpatial' database, extrinsic properties would define it as such, for
example the UN-HCR, the U.S. National Geospatial Agency, The U.S. National
Park Service, and probably thousands of others use it to perform C.R.U.D.

operations on a continuous basis.

That being said, from a software development perspective, it perhaps more
resembles a set of loosely federated database system
. So
the technical approaches are not as straightforward as an ordinary
database, one probably should treat it as a data lake
 or a nascent data warehouse
  - if one were
unkind, sometimes it can seem like a data swamp
. In practice, this means a
chain of ETL 
operations, rather than a single straight forward database query. And what
makes this even weirder is that, in some ways, OSM is a hybrid of a
relational  and a graph

database.

> Right now OSM is a collection of dots and lines with some generic tags for
> rendering them on a map. They do compile into nice maps but does it really
> work when it comes to searching for objects of real life categories? ...
>
> Superficially, that seems the case, but only because of expectations.
expanding the perspective, IMHO, it is actually fairly robust and
sophisticated considering what it is required to do. It actually permits
use cases which would be intolerable for mundane systems.

> To wrap it up it is hard to impossible to get objects of some real live
> category from OSM database in order for example to highlight them on a
> map or to list them in search results.
>
> I would agree that it is hard, but not impossible. Certainly in a single
step for the entire data space. In the 'stream' example, one has to work
across the basic data type elements
 of nodes, ways, and
relations, then across keys , tags
, and relation types
. And even within those, there
are wildly different purposes, like base geometric meanings like
multipolygon 
alongside high level abstractions like surveillance
. So, if one were
building some sort of generic software utility, one has to inventory the
relative prevalence of the structures above, and bound the problem
accordingly along with leveraging aspects like the geometric bounding box.
Once you get down in the weeds
, like
with 'amenity', you are in the NLP
 realm, and
would have to supplement from an external utility like WordNet
 - for example using synsets

and semantic distance .
... see  OpenStreetMap Semantic Network
 .

There are two workarounds used right now. The first one is to bind some new
> tags to local categories ... The second one is to put category name into 
> "name" tag, e.g. "Liberty
> avenue", "Blue lake", "South park". ...
> I invision the following solution here.
> * First of all, the "name" tag should containt proper name only.
>
> I agree, but people are people, and for ordinary people, if you ask three
people to name something, you'd get three different 'names' at different
levels of abstraction
 (
subordinate, basic, or superordinate). Point and ask three people "What's
that" and you'll get "The Columbia River", "North Channel", or " Knappa,
Knappa Slough", so even the proper names will vary.

> * Secondly, introduce a new tag for the real life language specific
> category name. I know that "name:prefix/postfix" key was originally
> introduced for another purpose but it can be a candidate here as well. Note
> that in some languages the place of category name relative to the proper
> name matters.
>
>  Because of the complexities noted previously, the weight of legacy
information, and maintenance complexity ( occasional refactoring ), a more
or less parallel scheme would be unrealistic inside of OSM

Re: [Tagging] intermittent on wetland

2018-12-09 Thread Graeme Fitzpatrick

Yep intermittent wetland / swamp would seem the best option

Thanks

Graeme
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Re: [Tagging] leisure=hammock_hook

Wow! Either those things are high enough that a would be suicide could make 
good use of them, or sooner or later a kid will loose an eye on one of those 
hooks...  :-/


My advice? Don't map those: you could be held liable...



On 2018-12-10 00:29, Sérgio V. wrote:
> Hi, I've found a playground equipment that is made to hang hammocks. 
> It's a kind of industrialized urban furniture specially made for it.
> This one consists of a central fixed pole and hook that can hang a limited 
> number of hammocks in a radial disposition,
> each one with its other pole and hook (but it might exist other 
> dispositions), as it can be seen here:
> https://i.imgur.com/4faaneS.jpg
> In portuguese it was named "redário" ("a place for hammocks": "rede" meaning 
> the mesh; the suffix "-ario" as the latin for "a place for", like in 
> "orchid-arium").
> It was found here:
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/6127201547
> It would be nice to have a tag to it.
>
> Also considering that the representative image for "key:leisure", as it is in 
> the wiki page of
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:leisure ,
> actually is a hammock:
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:Hammock_-_Polynesia.jpg ,
> and which also represents the wikidata image for "leisure":
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Item:Q379
> We have no tag for "places for hammocks" until now.
>
> I was thinking if it could be tagged as:
> leisure=hammock_hook 
> since what effectively assures its proper function is that it has hooks to 
> hang hammocks.
> What do you think? Thank you in advance. 
>
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>
> Sérgio - http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/smaprs
>
>
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Re: [Tagging] leisure=hammock_hook


On 10/12/18 10:47, Sergio Manzi wrote:


... beside, are you sure those hooks are for hammocks? How can you 
hang 3 hammocks radially from the center point? There doesn't seems to 
be enough "angle" between them... Have you ever seen an actual hammock 
hanging from there? Presence of the ropes makes me think they are 
thought for something else...




A spiders web made out of rope - made for people to climb on?
Possibly removed due to the probability of a fall resulting in serious 
injury.


I too would not map it .. until I saw it in use.



On 2018-12-10 00:40, Sergio Manzi wrote:


Wow! Either those things are high enough that a would be suicide 
could make good use of them, or sooner or later a kid will loose an 
eye on one of those hooks...  :-/



My advice? Don't map those: you could be held liable...



On 2018-12-10 00:29, Sérgio V. wrote:

Hi, I've found a playground equipment that is made to hang hammocks.
It's a kind of industrialized urban furniture specially made for it.
This one consists of a central fixed pole and hook that can hang a 
limited number of hammocks in a radial disposition,
each one with its other pole and hook (but it might exist other 
dispositions), as it can be seen here:

https://i.imgur.com/4faaneS.jpg
In portuguese it was named "redário" ("a place for hammocks": "rede" 
meaning the mesh; the suffix "-ario" as the latin for "a place for", 
like in "orchid-arium").

It was found here:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/6127201547
It would be nice to have a tag to it.

Also considering that the representative image for "key:leisure", as 
it is in the wiki page of

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:leisure ,
actually is a hammock:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:Hammock_-_Polynesia.jpg ,
and which also represents the wikidata image for "leisure":
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Item:Q379
We have no tag for "places for hammocks" until now.

I was thinking if it could be tagged as:
leisure=hammock_hook
since what effectively assures its proper function is that it has 
hooks to hang hammocks.

What do you think? Thank you in advance.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Sérgio - http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/smaprs


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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Railway tracks on highway

2018-12-09 Thread EthnicFood IsGreat

Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2018 22:30:26 +0100
From: Markus 
To: "Tag discussion, strategy and related tools"

Subject: Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Railway tracks on
highway

Markus' original point is well taken.  Some mappers may not know or care 
which type of vehicle runs on the tracks, only that there are embedded 
rails in the roadway.  In this case embedded_rails=yes would be appropriate.

Mark

Thank you, Mateusz and Colin, i haven't thought of curve radii and signalling.

By the way, i deliberately didn't mention the Bordeaux system because
it's uncommon and not a metro (but some kind of tram).

Regards
Markus

On Sun, 9 Dec 2018 at 20:46, Mateusz Konieczny  wrote:

In Kraków, Poland trams and train use the same gauge and in
theory it is  possible to build vehicle that would travel both on
tram tracks and railway tracks.

But railway tracks are build to withstand significantly heavier
vehicles and with massive differences in curve radius:

railway curve with small radius:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/?mlat=50.0433&mlon=19.9617#map=15/50.0433/19.9617

tram tracks curve with small radius:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/?mlat=50.0438&mlon=19.9471#map=15/50.0438/19.9471

So I would expect a difference.

BTW, first tram in Kraków had deliberately narrow gauge to make impossible
to convert it into railway tracks through a city center.

Dec 9, 2018, 5:37 PM by selfishseaho...@gmail.com:

Hi!

I'm still wondering if there is a technical difference between
embedded tram, train and now metro rails (except for a third rail,
which usually can't be embedded in a street). If the only difference
are the vehicles that run on them, then it doesn't seem to be
important to distinguish between embedded_rails=tram/railway/subway
and embedded_rails=yes probably is enough information. (By the way,
why did you leave out light_rail and narrow_gauge?)

On Sun, 9 Dec 2018 at 21:40, Colin Smale  wrote:

On 9 December 2018 17:37:21 CET, Markus  wrote:

Hi!

I'm still wondering if there is a technical difference between
embedded tram, train and now metro rails (except for a third rail,
which usually can't be embedded in a street).

It can and is popular in France.. Check out APS (alimentation par sol).

A major difference between heavy rail and trams is signaling. Rail systems are 
heavy on safety interlocks whereas trams basically rely on the driver as they 
have to interact with city traffic. Points (switches) for trams are controlled 
by the drivers on demand, whereas for trains they are set for centrally 
determined paths. I suspect that point motors for trams are happier at being 
forced open at trailing junctions as well. Big train point motors take a dim 
view of that.

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Re: [Tagging] emergency=control_centre

2018-12-09 Thread EthnicFood IsGreat

Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2018 20:46:48 +
From: Javier Sánchez Portero 
To: "Tag discussion, strategy and related tools"

Subject: Re: [Tagging] emergency=control_centre

I answer inline to Paul and Markus

El dom., 9 dic. 2018 a las 15:12, Paul Allen ()
escribió:

On Sun, Dec 9, 2018 at 3:06 PM dktue  wrote:

I would like to propose a tag for emergency control centers (the place
you reach when you call 112 in Europe).

Why?

As far as I know, these are places one contacts via telephone.  They may
be located far from
the locality they serve, even though calls from that locality may be
routed to one particular
control centre.  Are the ones you are familiar with of a kind where one
must walk in to report
an emergency?  Unless they are, it serves no purpose to mark them on a
map.  Unless, perhaps,
one is a terrorist intent upon damaging infrastructure.

I kindly disagree with you. I think this information is important in the
map as is everything related to emergencies.

[...]

Of course the emergency services should have their own maps
and data bases, but I think that is our goal to offer the best possible
geographic information data base for all kind of user and to serve as a
valid alternative to any government user which want to use it.

That is an unrealistic, pie-in-the-sky goal.  As long as mappers are 
free to use any tag they like, and OSM is a mishmash of tags, how could 
anyone rely on it for anything very important?

Mark

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Re: [Tagging] leisure=hammock_hook

... beside, are you sure those hooks are for hammocks? How can you hang 3 
hammocks radially from the center point? There doesn't seems to be enough 
"angle" between them... Have you ever seen an actual hammock hanging from 
there? Presence of the ropes makes me think they are thought for something 
else...


On 2018-12-10 00:40, Sergio Manzi wrote:
>
> Wow! Either those things are high enough that a would be suicide could make 
> good use of them, or sooner or later a kid will loose an eye on one of those 
> hooks...  :-/
>
>
> My advice? Don't map those: you could be held liable...
>
>
>
> On 2018-12-10 00:29, Sérgio V. wrote:
>> Hi, I've found a playground equipment that is made to hang hammocks. 
>> It's a kind of industrialized urban furniture specially made for it.
>> This one consists of a central fixed pole and hook that can hang a limited 
>> number of hammocks in a radial disposition,
>> each one with its other pole and hook (but it might exist other 
>> dispositions), as it can be seen here:
>> https://i.imgur.com/4faaneS.jpg
>> In portuguese it was named "redário" ("a place for hammocks": "rede" meaning 
>> the mesh; the suffix "-ario" as the latin for "a place for", like in 
>> "orchid-arium").
>> It was found here:
>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/6127201547
>> It would be nice to have a tag to it.
>>
>> Also considering that the representative image for "key:leisure", as it is 
>> in the wiki page of
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:leisure ,
>> actually is a hammock:
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:Hammock_-_Polynesia.jpg ,
>> and which also represents the wikidata image for "leisure":
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Item:Q379
>> We have no tag for "places for hammocks" until now.
>>
>> I was thinking if it could be tagged as:
>> leisure=hammock_hook 
>> since what effectively assures its proper function is that it has hooks to 
>> hang hammocks.
>> What do you think? Thank you in advance. 
>>
>> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>>
>> Sérgio - http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/smaprs
>>
>>
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[Tagging] intermittent on wetland


Hi,

The key intermittent is for water related things .. not just waterways 
but also wetlands.


Just mapping Relation: Goyder's Lagoon (9092118) ...

See wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goyder_Lagoon

The Diamantiana Rv flows into it .. intermittently

and then the Warburton Rv flows out of it ephemerally.

Most of the water is lost in it .. only when there is a lot of flow in 
is there flow out.


Note I have mapped it as a swap having initially mapped it as a lagoon ..
but the water never covers the area .. it flows in dividing up in to smaller 
and smaller channels .. more of a swamp.


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Re: [Tagging] emergency=control_centre

I totally agree on that and, with my limits, I too try doing the same...

Cheers!

Sergio


On 2018-12-10 00:32, Warin wrote:
> On 10/12/18 10:17, Sergio Manzi wrote:
>>
>> I know that there are ones who think that every little detail of the world 
>> should be tagged, but I'm not of that party, and I think that I have the 
>> same right to express my opinion as they do, and no offense should be taken 
>> by neither of the two parties...
>>
>
> While I don't map to that detail, I have no objection to others adding as 
> much as they want.
>
> But... I want them to do it in a though-full ordered structure. Not some mess.
>
> So I would provide a structure they can use ...
>
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Re: [Tagging] emergency=control_centre


On 10/12/18 10:17, Sergio Manzi wrote:


I know that there are ones who think that every little detail of the 
world should be tagged, but I'm not of that party, and I think that I 
have the same right to express my opinion as they do, and no offense 
should be taken by neither of the two parties...




While I don't map to that detail, I have no objection to others adding 
as much as they want.


But... I want them to do it in a though-full ordered structure. Not some 
mess.


So I would provide a structure they can use ...

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[Tagging] leisure=hammock_hook

2018-12-09 Thread Sérgio V .

Hi, I've found a playground equipment that is made to hang hammocks.
It's a kind of industrialized urban furniture specially made for it.
This one consists of a central fixed pole and hook that can hang a limited 
number of hammocks in a radial disposition,
each one with its other pole and hook (but it might exist other dispositions), 
as it can be seen here:
https://i.imgur.com/4faaneS.jpg
In portuguese it was named "redário" ("a place for hammocks": "rede" meaning 
the mesh; the suffix "-ario" as the latin for "a place for", like in 
"orchid-arium").
It was found here:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/6127201547
It would be nice to have a tag to it.

Also considering that the representative image for "key:leisure", as it is in 
the wiki page of
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:leisure ,
actually is a hammock:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:Hammock_-_Polynesia.jpg ,
and which also represents the wikidata image for "leisure":
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Item:Q379
We have no tag for "places for hammocks" until now.

I was thinking if it could be tagged as:
leisure=hammock_hook
since what effectively assures its proper function is that it has hooks to hang 
hammocks.
What do you think? Thank you in advance.


- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Sérgio - http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/smaprs
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Re: [Tagging] Can OSM become a geospatial database?

2018-12-09 Thread EthnicFood IsGreat

Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2018 21:57:14 +0100
From: Wolfgang Zenker 
To: "Tag discussion, strategy and related tools"

Subject: Re: [Tagging] Can OSM become a geospacial database?

* Eugene Podshivalov  [181209 12:34]:

вс, 9 дек. 2018 г. в 14:10, Marc Gemis :

We have tags for that (waterway=stream, ditch, ... / amenity=school,
college, university, kindergarten), I don't understand why we should
change the usage of name for that.

How would you map American "streamlet", "brook", "creek" and "river" to the
two generic "stream" and "river" in OSM?
Currently they are just putting in the name field, so the only ways to fide
all "brooks" is by searching the name fields which is not a proper database
approach.

Most probably you would not want to look for all "brooks", because
"brook" is just one of multiple words that mean the same thing. There is
no semantic difference between a "brook" and a "stream" in general
nowadays. Its just that in different regions of the english speaking
world different words were commonly used, and people in America used
whatever word they were familiar with.

Wolfgang
( lyx @ osm )

So true.

Mark

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Re: [Tagging] emergency=control_centre

Sorry, but I don't think so: office=control_centre could be the control center 
for whatever infrastructure (/unless some more specific tag exists in some 
specific namespace/).

*If* (/and it is a big if of which I'd like to say something later/) we want to 
tag the places where emergency phone calls are handled (/PSAP in north America, 
112 in Europe, etc.../), then we must be specific and define a specific tag for 
those specific places (and /I'm not sure emergency=control_center is a good one 
as it can easily be confounded on a control center handling emergency in case 
of disasters, which is a totally different thing/).

Now about the "big if": I'm sorry if someone will feel touched in its 
sentiments, but I don't think there is any value added in tagging such places, 
beside for the relatively few persons who have a reason, a need, to go there 
(/workers and volunteers, mainly I guess.../).

I know that there are ones who think that every little detail of the world 
should be tagged, but I'm not of that party, and I think that I have the same 
right to express my opinion as they do, and no offense should be taken by 
neither of the two parties...

Cheers,

Sergio

On 2018-12-09 20:56, dktue wrote:
> You're definitely right,
>
>     office=control_centre
>
> seems to be better suited.
>
> Am 09.12.2018 um 20:52 schrieb Mateusz Konieczny:
>> Is there some reason to not use office=* like for other offices?
>>
>>
>> Dec 9, 2018, 4:04 PM by em...@daniel-korn.de:
>>
>> Hello,
>>
>> I would like to propose a tag for emergency control centers (the place 
>> you reach when you call 112 in Europe).
>>
>> My suggestion would be "emergency=control_centre".
>>
>> Cheers,
>> dktue
>>
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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Railway tracks on highway

Thank you, Mateusz and Colin, i haven't thought of curve radii and signalling.

By the way, i deliberately didn't mention the Bordeaux system because
it's uncommon and not a metro (but some kind of tram).

Regards
Markus

On Sun, 9 Dec 2018 at 20:46, Mateusz Konieczny  wrote:
>
> In Kraków, Poland trams and train use the same gauge and in
> theory it is  possible to build vehicle that would travel both on
> tram tracks and railway tracks.
>
> But railway tracks are build to withstand significantly heavier
> vehicles and with massive differences in curve radius:
>
> railway curve with small radius:
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/?mlat=50.0433&mlon=19.9617#map=15/50.0433/19.9617
>
> tram tracks curve with small radius:
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/?mlat=50.0438&mlon=19.9471#map=15/50.0438/19.9471
>
> So I would expect a difference.
>
> BTW, first tram in Kraków had deliberately narrow gauge to make impossible
> to convert it into railway tracks through a city center.
>
> Dec 9, 2018, 5:37 PM by selfishseaho...@gmail.com:
>
> Hi!
>
> I'm still wondering if there is a technical difference between
> embedded tram, train and now metro rails (except for a third rail,
> which usually can't be embedded in a street). If the only difference
> are the vehicles that run on them, then it doesn't seem to be
> important to distinguish between embedded_rails=tram/railway/subway
> and embedded_rails=yes probably is enough information. (By the way,
> why did you leave out light_rail and narrow_gauge?)

On Sun, 9 Dec 2018 at 21:40, Colin Smale  wrote:
>
>
>
> On 9 December 2018 17:37:21 CET, Markus  wrote:
> >Hi!
> >
> >I'm still wondering if there is a technical difference between
> >embedded tram, train and now metro rails (except for a third rail,
> >which usually can't be embedded in a street).
>
> It can and is popular in France.. Check out APS (alimentation par sol).
>
> A major difference between heavy rail and trams is signaling. Rail systems 
> are heavy on safety interlocks whereas trams basically rely on the driver as 
> they have to interact with city traffic. Points (switches) for trams are 
> controlled by the drivers on demand, whereas for trains they are set for 
> centrally determined paths. I suspect that point motors for trams are happier 
> at being forced open at trailing junctions as well. Big train point motors 
> take a dim view of that.

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Re: [Tagging] emergency=control_centre


On 10/12/18 07:46, Javier Sánchez Portero wrote:

I answer inline to Paul and Markus

El dom., 9 dic. 2018 a las 15:12, Paul Allen (>) escribió:


On Sun, Dec 9, 2018 at 3:06 PM dktue mailto:em...@daniel-korn.de>> wrote:


I would like to propose a tag for emergency control centers
(the place
you reach when you call 112 in Europe).


Why?

As far as I know, these are places one contacts via telephone. 
They may be located far from
the locality they serve, even though calls from that locality may
be routed to one particular
control centre.  Are the ones you are familiar with of a kind
where one must walk in to report
an emergency?  Unless they are, it serves no purpose to mark them
on a map.  Unless, perhaps,
one is a terrorist intent upon damaging infrastructure.


I kindly disagree with you. I think this information is important in 
the map as is everything related to emergencies. We can distinguish 
the calling centre and the centre for coordination for emergency 
forces and resources. Usually they are located in the same place.

Well .. that is not the case here.
First the call centre takes calls for the 3 services - ambulance, fire 
(and rescue) and police. The calls are then past to relevant section as 
they are trained in the relevant specialities and have the correct 
contacts.
Of course a ordinary person don't need to know where they are, but for 
a emergency planner these are strategic places into the emergencies 
services that need to be preserved and defended. Of course the 
emergency services should have their own maps and data bases, but I 
think that is our goal to offer the best possible geographic 
information data base for all kind of user and to serve as a valid 
alternative to any government user which want to use it. In addition 
the terrorist, many other people could need to know the location of 
such a place, for example mail and delivery services, taxis, and any 
one who is interested in work in such a place or know how the work 
(school visits). At least in my country these location are publicly 
know through the contact section of their web site. They are also 
verifiable on the on the ground features and as such they have place 
in our database.
Anyone wanting the information can find it and use it  .. even if it is 
under the office key.


Going to a fire or ambo station for assistance is fine. There you find 
people trained in various aspects of emergency assistance and the 
equipment to provide that assistance. It may be quicker to go there than 
call and wait for them to arrive.
Going to a call centre is not so good .. they probably don't have the 
equipment even if they have the training and experience. So I would not 
put them under the key emergency.


Dedicated buildings for ambulances do exist, just as they do for fire 
stations.
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Re: [Tagging] emergency=control_centre

On Sun, 9 Dec 2018 at 19:56, dktue  wrote:
>
> By the way: We're currently using amenity=fire_station und 
> emergency=ambulance_station -- which is confusing in my opinion.

That's probably because the tag amenity=fire_station is older than
emergency=ambulance_station.

(You could double-tag fire stations amenity=fire_station +
emergency=fire_station. If enough people do the same, maybe one day be
don't need amenity=fire_station any more.)

Regards
Markus

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Re: [Tagging] Can OSM become a geospacial database?

2018-12-09 Thread Wolfgang Zenker

* Eugene Podshivalov  [181209 12:34]:
> вс, 9 дек. 2018 г. в 14:10, Marc Gemis :

>> We have tags for that (waterway=stream, ditch, ... / amenity=school,
>> college, university, kindergarten), I don't understand why we should
>> change the usage of name for that.

> How would you map American "streamlet", "brook", "creek" and "river" to the
> two generic "stream" and "river" in OSM?
> Currently they are just putting in the name field, so the only ways to fide
> all "brooks" is by searching the name fields which is not a proper database
> approach.

Most probably you would not want to look for all "brooks", because
"brook" is just one of multiple words that mean the same thing. There is
no semantic difference between a "brook" and a "stream" in general
nowadays. Its just that in different regions of the english speaking
world different words were commonly used, and people in America used
whatever word they were familiar with.

Wolfgang
( lyx @ osm )

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Re: [Tagging] Can OSM become a geospacial database?


On 10/12/18 07:12, Daniel Koć wrote:

W dniu 09.12.2018 o 12:34, Eugene Podshivalov pisze:

How would you map American "streamlet", "brook", "creek" and "river"
to the two generic "stream" and "river" in OSM?
Currently they are just putting in the name field, so the only ways to
fide all "brooks" is by searching the name fields which is not a
proper database approach.


And what is the definition of them? How are they different?

I think these are really not too meaningful names, so searching in names
seems to be proper if you want to find them. The question is - what for,
what will it mean?



Those are in the name field as those are part of their names.

They are not some technical description of the waterway.


Is there a professional differentiation between these terms?


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Re: [Tagging] emergency=control_centre

2018-12-09 Thread Javier Sánchez Portero

I answer inline to Paul and Markus

El dom., 9 dic. 2018 a las 15:12, Paul Allen ()
escribió:

> On Sun, Dec 9, 2018 at 3:06 PM dktue  wrote:
>
>>
>> I would like to propose a tag for emergency control centers (the place
>> you reach when you call 112 in Europe).
>>
>
> Why?
>
> As far as I know, these are places one contacts via telephone.  They may
> be located far from
> the locality they serve, even though calls from that locality may be
> routed to one particular
> control centre.  Are the ones you are familiar with of a kind where one
> must walk in to report
> an emergency?  Unless they are, it serves no purpose to mark them on a
> map.  Unless, perhaps,
> one is a terrorist intent upon damaging infrastructure.
>
>
I kindly disagree with you. I think this information is important in the
map as is everything related to emergencies. We can distinguish the calling
centre and the centre for coordination for emergency forces and resources.
Usually they are located in the same place. Of course a ordinary person
don't need to know where they are, but for a emergency planner these are
strategic places into the emergencies services that need to be preserved
and defended. Of course the emergency services should have their own maps
and data bases, but I think that is our goal to offer the best possible
geographic information data base for all kind of user and to serve as a
valid alternative to any government user which want to use it. In addition
the terrorist, many other people could need to know the location of such a
place, for example mail and delivery services, taxis, and any one who is
interested in work in such a place or know how the work (school visits). At
least in my country these location are publicly know through the contact
section of their web site. They are also verifiable on the on the ground
features and as such they have place in our database.

El dom., 9 dic. 2018 a las 15:51, Markus ()
escribió:

> office=public-safety_answering_point would probably fit better than
> emergency=*. (In an emergency it might not help much to know where the
> public-safety answering point is located.)
>
> Regards
> Markus
>
>
To join together all emergency related stuff into a key seems to me very
logic and important to reach the goal I described previously. It could be
used office=any as main key but emergency = something should be available
to facilitate searchs and grouping.

Regards, Javier
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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Railway tracks on highway

2018-12-09 Thread Colin Smale

On 9 December 2018 17:37:21 CET, Markus  wrote:
>Hi!
>
>I'm still wondering if there is a technical difference between
>embedded tram, train and now metro rails (except for a third rail,
>which usually can't be embedded in a street).

It can and is popular in France.. Check out APS (alimentation par sol). 

A major difference between heavy rail and trams is signaling. Rail systems are 
heavy on safety interlocks whereas trams basically rely on the driver as they 
have to interact with city traffic. Points (switches) for trams are controlled 
by the drivers on demand, whereas for trains they are set for centrally 
determined paths. I suspect that point motors for trams are happier at being 
forced open at trailing junctions as well. Big train point motors take a dim 
view of that. 

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Re: [Tagging] Can OSM become a geospacial database?

2018-12-09 Thread Daniel Koć

W dniu 09.12.2018 o 12:34, Eugene Podshivalov pisze:
> How would you map American "streamlet", "brook", "creek" and "river"
> to the two generic "stream" and "river" in OSM?
> Currently they are just putting in the name field, so the only ways to
> fide all "brooks" is by searching the name fields which is not a
> proper database approach.


And what is the definition of them? How are they different?

I think these are really not too meaningful names, so searching in names
seems to be proper if you want to find them. The question is - what for,
what will it mean?


-- 
"Excuse me, I have some growing up to do" [P. Gabriel]



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Re: [Tagging] emergency=control_centre


You're definitely right,

    office=control_centre

seems to be better suited.

Am 09.12.2018 um 20:52 schrieb Mateusz Konieczny:

Is there some reason to not use office=* like for other offices?


Dec 9, 2018, 4:04 PM by em...@daniel-korn.de:

Hello,

I would like to propose a tag for emergency control centers (the
place you reach when you call 112 in Europe).

My suggestion would be "emergency=control_centre".

Cheers,
dktue

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Re: [Tagging] emergency=control_centre

2018-12-09 Thread Mateusz Konieczny

Is there some reason to not use office=* like for other offices?


Dec 9, 2018, 4:04 PM by em...@daniel-korn.de:

> Hello,
>
> I would like to propose a tag for emergency control centers (the place you 
> reach when you call 112 in Europe).
>
> My suggestion would be "emergency=control_centre".
>
> Cheers,
> dktue
>
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Re: [Tagging] emergency=control_centre

2018-12-09 Thread Mateusz Konieczny

Because building=ambulance_station is for building build as an ambulance 
station, 
no matter what is there now.

Dec 9, 2018, 4:58 PM by em...@daniel-korn.de:

> But why are we using emergency=ambulance_station and not 
> building=ambulance_station?
>
>

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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Railway tracks on highway

2018-12-09 Thread Mateusz Konieczny

In Kraków, Poland trams and train use the same gauge and in 
theory it is  possible to build vehicle that would travel both on 
tram tracks and railway tracks.

But railway tracks are build to withstand significantly heavier
vehicles and with massive differences in curve radius:

railway curve with small radius:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/?mlat=50.0433&mlon=19.9617#map=15/50.0433/19.9617 


tram tracks curve with small radius:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/?mlat=50.0438&mlon=19.9471#map=15/50.0438/19.9471 


So I would expect a difference.

BTW, first tram in Kraków had deliberately narrow gauge to make impossible
to convert it into railway tracks through a city center.

Dec 9, 2018, 5:37 PM by selfishseaho...@gmail.com:

> Hi!
>
> I'm still wondering if there is a technical difference between
> embedded tram, train and now metro rails (except for a third rail,
> which usually can't be embedded in a street). If the only difference
> are the vehicles that run on them, then it doesn't seem to be
> important to distinguish between embedded_rails=tram/railway/subway
> and embedded_rails=yes probably is enough information. (By the way,
> why did you leave out light_rail and narrow_gauge?)
>
>

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Re: [Tagging] emergency=control_centre

2018-12-09 Thread Daniel Koć

W dniu 09.12.2018 o 19:54, dktue pisze:
> By the way: We're currently using amenity=fire_station und
> emergency=ambulance_station -- which is confusing in my opinion.

Maybe it would be good to use emergency=police_station scheme (and maybe
something else for other police-related objects, like headquarter
offices, police schools or vehicle depot).


-- 
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Re: [Tagging] emergency=control_centre

By the way: We're currently using amenity=fire_station und 
emergency=ambulance_station -- which is confusing in my opinion.


Am 09.12.2018 um 18:12 schrieb Stefano Maffulli:
On Sun, Dec 9, 2018 at 8:16 AM Paul Allen > wrote:


Ambulance stations
(like fire stations) are places where people should be aware that
high speed emergency
vehicles may suddenly appear from.


This is a factor but not the main one for using emergency=fire_station 
or ambulance. These amenities and buildings are *resources* that are 
useful during or in the aftermath of disastrous event. The reason why 
I would want to map the building where ambulances and firestations 
with the emergency key, instead of the building or amenities is that 
this information has practical value for disaster preparation and 
response.


This conversation made me realize that the wiki page could use some 
more details on the scope of the emergency key, IMO, to also help mappers.



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Re: [Tagging] emergency=control_centre

2018-12-09 Thread Stefano Maffulli

On Sun, Dec 9, 2018 at 8:16 AM Paul Allen  wrote:

> Ambulance stations
> (like fire stations) are places where people should be aware that high
> speed emergency
> vehicles may suddenly appear from.
>

This is a factor but not the main one for using emergency=fire_station or
ambulance. These amenities and buildings are *resources* that are useful
during or in the aftermath of disastrous event. The reason why I would want
to map the building where ambulances and firestations with the emergency
key, instead of the building or amenities is that this information has
practical value for disaster preparation and response.

This conversation made me realize that the wiki page could use some more
details on the scope of the emergency key, IMO, to also help mappers.
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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Railway tracks on highway

Hi!

I'm still wondering if there is a technical difference between
embedded tram, train and now metro rails (except for a third rail,
which usually can't be embedded in a street). If the only difference
are the vehicles that run on them, then it doesn't seem to be
important to distinguish between embedded_rails=tram/railway/subway
and embedded_rails=yes probably is enough information. (By the way,
why did you leave out light_rail and narrow_gauge?)

Regards
Markus

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Re: [Tagging] emergency=control_centre

Me too!  :-)

But, as others have already pointed out, I'm really unsure if this kind of 
information is relevant/appropriate here...


On 2018-12-09 17:29, Markus wrote:
> On Sun, 9 Dec 2018 at 17:22, dktue  wrote:
>> I've been convinced that the office-key is a suitable place to put the tag.
> On the other hand, i also understand your logic to put everything
> emergency-related under the emergency=* key. ;-)
>
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Re: [Tagging] emergency=control_centre

On Sun, 9 Dec 2018 at 17:22, dktue  wrote:
>
> I've been convinced that the office-key is a suitable place to put the tag.

On the other hand, i also understand your logic to put everything
emergency-related under the emergency=* key. ;-)

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Re: [Tagging] emergency=control_centre


You're definitely right. Good point!

I've been convinced that the office-key is a suitable place to put the tag.

Am 09.12.2018 um 17:15 schrieb Paul Allen:
On Sun, Dec 9, 2018 at 3:59 PM dktue > wrote:


You're right, indeed. Office would definitely suit better.

But why are we using emergency=ambulance_station and not
building=ambulance_station?


In my experience, people don't come roaring out of houses at 70MPH 
with sirens blaring
and lights flashing.  In my experience, people don't come roaring out 
of offices at 70MPH
with sirens blaring and lights flashing.  However, ambulances may come 
roaring out of
ambulance stations at 70MPH with sirens blaring and lights flashing.  
Ambulance stations
(like fire stations) are places where people should be aware that high 
speed emergency

vehicles may suddenly appear from.

So emergency=ambulance_station is a better fit than 
office=ambulance_station or
building=ambulance_station.  Because there may be emergency traffic.  
The same does

not apply to control centres.

--
Paul


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Re: [Tagging] emergency=control_centre

2018-12-09 Thread Paul Allen

On Sun, Dec 9, 2018 at 3:59 PM dktue  wrote:

> You're right, indeed. Office would definitely suit better.
>
> But why are we using emergency=ambulance_station and not
> building=ambulance_station?
>

In my experience, people don't come roaring out of houses at 70MPH with
sirens blaring
and lights flashing.  In my experience, people don't come roaring out of
offices at 70MPH
with sirens blaring and lights flashing.  However, ambulances may come
roaring out of
ambulance stations at 70MPH with sirens blaring and lights flashing.
Ambulance stations
(like fire stations) are places where people should be aware that high
speed emergency
vehicles may suddenly appear from.

So emergency=ambulance_station is a better fit than
office=ambulance_station or
building=ambulance_station.  Because there may be emergency traffic.  The
same does
not apply to control centres.

-- 
Paul
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Re: [Tagging] emergency=control_centre

Knowing where to find an ambulance (/the nearest one.../) is, I think, of more 
general interest than knowing where emergency calls are handled.

About "/amenity/"... please don't get me started on that: I have a profound 
hate for the term and in the particular case when you need an ambulance, I 
don't hink you could consider that an... amenity.

Cheers!


On 2018-12-09 17:06, dktue wrote:
> You're right! But amenity=ambulance_station could be used. The point I tried 
> to make was: Why are we using the emergency-key in that case at all.
>
> Am 09.12.2018 um 17:01 schrieb Sergio Manzi:
>>
>> Maybe because not all (/probably few.../) ambulance stations occupy an 
>> entire building?
>>
>> On 2018-12-09 16:58, dktue wrote:
>>> But why are we using emergency=ambulance_station and not 
>>> building=ambulance_station?
>>
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Re: [Tagging] emergency=control_centre

You're right! But amenity=ambulance_station could be used. The point I 
tried to make was: Why are we using the emergency-key in that case at all.


Am 09.12.2018 um 17:01 schrieb Sergio Manzi:


Maybe because not all (/probably few.../) ambulance stations occupy an 
entire building?


On 2018-12-09 16:58, dktue wrote:
But why are we using emergency=ambulance_station and not 
building=ambulance_station?


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Re: [Tagging] emergency=control_centre

Maybe because not all (/probably few.../) ambulance stations occupy an entire 
building?

On 2018-12-09 16:58, dktue wrote:
> But why are we using emergency=ambulance_station and not 
> building=ambulance_station?


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Re: [Tagging] emergency=control_centre


You're right, indeed. Office would definitely suit better.

But why are we using emergency=ambulance_station and not 
building=ambulance_station?


If we're doing so to make a grouping about emergency-related facilities, 
then we should go with an emergency-tag.


Am 09.12.2018 um 16:50 schrieb Markus:

office=public-safety_answering_point would probably fit better than
emergency=*. (In an emergency it might not help much to know where the
public-safety answering point is located.)

Regards
Markus

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Re: [Tagging] emergency=control_centre

office=public-safety_answering_point would probably fit better than
emergency=*. (In an emergency it might not help much to know where the
public-safety answering point is located.)

Regards
Markus

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Re: [Tagging] emergency=control_centre

2018-12-09 Thread Tod Fitch

> On Dec 9, 2018, at 7:11 AM, Paul Allen  wrote:
> 
> On Sun, Dec 9, 2018 at 3:06 PM dktue  > wrote:
> 
> I would like to propose a tag for emergency control centers (the place
> you reach when you call 112 in Europe).
> 
> Why?
> 
> As far as I know, these are places one contacts via telephone.  They may be 
> located far from
> the locality they serve, even though calls from that locality may be routed 
> to one particular
> control centre.  Are the ones you are familiar with of a kind where one must 
> walk in to report
> an emergency?  Unless they are, it serves no purpose to mark them on a map.  
> Unless, perhaps,
> one is a terrorist intent upon damaging infrastructure.
> 
> --
> Paul
> 

In North America they are called PSAP (Public Safety Answering Point). [1]

But I agree that there does not seem to be a driving reason to map them as the 
physical location is not relevant for their use.

And I don’t believe that they are a “control center”. More of a communication 
center. If it is a “normal” emergency, the police/fire/medical will have their 
own operations center, probably separate from the “answering point” that 
oversees the personnel dispatched, etc. If it becomes a big incident, then 
there will be a “Incident Command Post” (ICP) setup to handle the situation and 
the ICP will vary from incident to incident and could be anywhere.

Cheers!

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_safety_answering_point

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Re: [Tagging] emergency=control_centre

2018-12-09 Thread Paul Allen

On Sun, Dec 9, 2018 at 3:06 PM dktue  wrote:

>
> I would like to propose a tag for emergency control centers (the place
> you reach when you call 112 in Europe).
>

Why?

As far as I know, these are places one contacts via telephone.  They may be
located far from
the locality they serve, even though calls from that locality may be routed
to one particular
control centre.  Are the ones you are familiar with of a kind where one
must walk in to report
an emergency?  Unless they are, it serves no purpose to mark them on a
map.  Unless, perhaps,
one is a terrorist intent upon damaging infrastructure.

-- 
Paul
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[Tagging] emergency=control_centre