Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Emergency=Rescue Stations

[Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging]

How objects tagged now with amenity=lifeboat_station should be tagged after 
this proposal passes?

It deprecates some tags without info about proposed replacements about any of 
them,
and some are actually used.

Also "The area of the Rescue base should render with the same pink colour as 
currently used for
Police & Fire Stations, together with an "SOS" icon." is problematic as 
proposal process has no
power to select any rendering in any map style.

And in many renderers different (or none) styling is used for rendering this 
object anyway.

Dec 20, 2020, 04:31 by graemefi...@gmail.com:

>
>
> On Sun, 6 Dec 2020 at 12:18, Graeme Fitzpatrick <> graemefi...@gmail.com> > 
> wrote:
>
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Rescue_Stations>>  
>>
>
> Moved to voting.
>
> If you still have any comments or concerns, please raise them for discussion, 
> rather than just voting "No, because ..."! 
>
> Thanks
>
> Graeme
>

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Re: [Tagging] sport=shooting_range vs sport=shooting + leisure=pitch

[Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging]

Dec 20, 2020, 00:01 by 61sundow...@gmail.com:

> On 20/12/20 6:45 am, Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging wrote:
>
>> Is there some good use for sport=shooting_range?
>>
>> Or is it always preferable to use sport=shooting + leisure=pitch?
>>
>> This is a request to review this edit
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Tag%3Asport%3Dshooting_range=revision=2074293=125712
>> that ended creating 
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:sport%3Dshooting_range
>>
>
> The sport key should be used to indicate the activity .. not the physical 
> existence. Despite what the OSMwiki says though various edits.
>
Where OSM Wiki claims that sport key alone indicates physical existence of 
something?
As far as I know it only describes that it specifies type/purpose of something 
like
leisure=pitch.

> The physical presence is give by some other key, such as 
> landuse=recreation_ground, pitch, etc...
>
>

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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Tag:traffic_calming=hillocky

[Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging]

Dec 20, 2020, 01:18 by pla16...@gmail.com:

> On Sat, 19 Dec 2020 at 23:58, <> 80hnhtv4a...@bk.ru> > wrote:
>
>> it had the word bump in it.
>>
>
> Yes, it had the word "bump" in it.  "Bump" is an English word.  There
> are traffic-calming devices with the word "bump" in their name.
>
> The proposal talks of "bumbs."  "Bumb" is not an English word.  I
> cannot find any traffic-calming device with "bumb" in their name.
>
> It's bumP versus bumB.  One is a word.  The other is not a word
> but is in the proposal.  Twice.
>
I assumed that it is typo and changed bumb to bump

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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Tag:traffic_calming=hillocky

[Yves via Tagging]

I don't think they can be categorized with the ones designed to make noise.
It looks like they are intended to work as bumps, but cheaper and easier to 
install.
Yves 

Le 19 décembre 2020 23:47:29 GMT+01:00, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> a écrit :
>On 20/12/20 9:24 am, Brian M. Sperlongano wrote:
>> I've seen these in the US also, but I never knew what they were 
>> called.  I understand that the purpose of them is simply to make noise 
>> when a car drives over them, as they don't slow you down in any 
>> appreciable way like a speed bump/hump.
>>
>> We already have a tag for "a traffic calming device that makes noise 
>> when a car drives over it", which is a rumble strip 
>> (see: traffic_calming=rumble_strip).  Note, I am talking about the 
>> kind that go all the way across the road, and not the kind in the 
>> shoulder of the road that make noise when you veer out of your lane.
>>
>> I usually think of rumble strips as grooves in the road, but it 
>> strikes me that these micro-speed-bump things are essentially the same 
>> thing -- they make noise when a car goes over it to alert the driver 
>> of something.
>>
>> I'm uncomfortable with hillock/hillocky as a value. Cursory searches 
>> seem to indicate that this isn't a term in use, in any flavor of English.
>
>
>Rumble strips I am familiar with. They not only cause a noise but a 
>vibration too, felt by the people inside the vehicle but not a large 
>vehicle deflection.
>
>Are the simply a new kind of rumble strip? So 
>traffic_calming=rumble_strip, rumble_strip:structure=circle, 
>rumble_strip:orientation=transverse
>
>Alternatively perhaps a better name would be rumble circles?
>
>
>>
>> On Sat, Dec 19, 2020 at 5:08 PM Martin Koppenhoefer 
>> mailto:dieterdre...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> sent from a phone
>>
>> > On 19. Dec 2020, at 22:53, Jeremy Harris > > wrote:
>> >
>> > traffic_calming=multi_bump  ?
>>
>>
>> or
>> traffic_calming=mini_bumps ?
>>
>> when they come up with something smaller that could still be
>> micro_bumps ;-)
>>
>>
>> Cheers Martin
>>
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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Military=Coast-Guard & Rescue=Marine_Rescue

[Graeme Fitzpatrick]

Following discussions, voting has been postponed until the military=bases
proposal is decided, so this has been returned to Under Way only.

Thanks

Graeme


On Sun, 20 Dec 2020 at 13:26, Graeme Fitzpatrick 
wrote:

>
>
>
> On Sun, 6 Dec 2020 at 12:21, Graeme Fitzpatrick 
> wrote:
>
>>
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Marine_rescue
>>
>
> Voting is now open.
>
> If you still have any comments or concern, please raise them for
> discussion, rather than just voting "No, because ..."!
>
> Thanks
>
> Graeme
>
>
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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Emergency=Rescue Stations

[Graeme Fitzpatrick]

On Sun, 20 Dec 2020 at 13:50, Joseph Eisenberg 
wrote:

> The text of the proposal is still confusing.
>

Sorry about that - maybe it should have been broken into 2 separate things?

Is the tag emergency=rescue_stations being proposed?
>

Currently the Emergency page has the heading "Other Stations" with
emergency=mountain_rescue being the only thing listed under that heading
(until recently, when you have added emergency=water_rescue_station). This
proposal will change that heading to "Rescue Stations", with various tags
to define each type of Emergency Rescue Station.

What are the tags which are proposed and what will be the definition of
> each tag?
>

The existing  emergency =
mountain_rescue
 will
remain unchanged.

The existing emergency =
disaster_response

will get a better definition to cover each countries Emergency Rescue /
Civil Defence service/s

Two new tags

emergency =marine_rescue

for non-military "lifeboat" / Marine Rescue units

emergency =mine_rescue

for dedicated Mine Rescue stations

I did mention that the existing Lifeguard classification could also be
moved to this area, possibly under a new emergency=water_rescue tag, but
that would probably be better done as a separate proposal.

Thanks

Graeme
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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Emergency=Rescue Stations

[Joseph Eisenberg]

The text of the proposal is still confusing.

Is the tag emergency=rescue_stations being proposed?

What are the tags which are proposed and what will be the definition of
each tag?

— Joseph Eisenberg

On Sat, Dec 19, 2020 at 7:33 PM Graeme Fitzpatrick 
wrote:

>
>
>
> On Sun, 6 Dec 2020 at 12:18, Graeme Fitzpatrick 
> wrote:
>
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Rescue_Stations
>>
>
> Moved to voting.
>
> If you still have any comments or concerns, please raise them for
> discussion, rather than just voting "No, because ..."!
>
> Thanks
>
> Graeme
>
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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Emergency=Rescue Stations

[Graeme Fitzpatrick]

On Sun, 6 Dec 2020 at 12:18, Graeme Fitzpatrick 
wrote:

> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Rescue_Stations
>

Moved to voting.

If you still have any comments or concerns, please raise them for
discussion, rather than just voting "No, because ..."!

Thanks

Graeme
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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Military=Coast-Guard & Rescue=Marine_Rescue

[Graeme Fitzpatrick]

On Sun, 6 Dec 2020 at 12:21, Graeme Fitzpatrick 
wrote:

>
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Marine_rescue
>

Voting is now open.

If you still have any comments or concern, please raise them for
discussion, rather than just voting "No, because ..."!

Thanks

Graeme
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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Tag:traffic_calming=hillocky

[80hnhtv4agou--- via Tagging]

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Tag:traffic_calming%3Dhillocky
 
there is traffic calming device often used in Czech republic
 
https://cs.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zpomalovací_práh
 
Zpomalovací polštáře, =  Deceleration pillows
 
  
>Saturday, December 19, 2020 6:18 PM -06:00 from Paul Allen 
>:
> 
>On Sat, 19 Dec 2020 at 23:58, < 80hnhtv4a...@bk.ru > wrote:
>>it had the word bump in it.
> 
>Yes, it had the word "bump" in it.  "Bump" is an English word.  There
>are traffic-calming devices with the word "bump" in their name.
> 
>The proposal talks of "bumbs."  "Bumb" is not an English word.  I
>cannot find any traffic-calming device with "bumb" in their name.
> 
>It's bumP versus bumB.  One is a word.  The other is not a word
>but is in the proposal.  Twice.
> 
>--
>Paul
>  
 
 
 
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Re: [Tagging] sport=shooting_range vs sport=shooting + leisure=pitch

[Graeme Fitzpatrick]

On Sun, 20 Dec 2020 at 09:44, Brian M. Sperlongano 
wrote:

> for a price:
>

You're not wrong!

Thanks

Graeme
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Re: [Tagging] sport=shooting_range vs sport=shooting + leisure=pitch

[Graeme Fitzpatrick]

On Sun, 20 Dec 2020 at 09:26, Martin Koppenhoefer 
wrote:

>
> I have seen some shooting=range but the tag does not make too much sense
> for tagging a shooting range facility.
>

Yes, it does actually, because shooters go to a range to shoot.

We have sport=shooting and the physical nature of the place usually would
> go in a leisure tag, maybe sometimes amenity, man_made or natural.
>

As above, possibly amenity=shooting_range?

I would see more consistency in shooting=* describing the kind of shooting
> rather than the place, e.g. shooting=rifle / pistol / archery or maybe
> biathlon.
>

Together with shooting_range=pistol / rifle / etc?

shooting=range could still be ok, if this is intended to describe the kind
> of shooting, and “range shooting” is a suitable category (e.g. for a sports
> club
>

Possibly "target shooting" would be a better option, as you shoot at
targets located on the range, not at the range itself, which is just open
ground, usually with a mound of dirt at one end.


> , e.g. as opposed to clay pigeon shooting,
>

However, clay pigeon shooting also takes place on a range!

& yes, another topic which I know quite a bit about! :-)

Thanks

Graeme
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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Tag:traffic_calming=hillocky

[Paul Allen]

On Sat, 19 Dec 2020 at 23:58, <80hnhtv4a...@bk.ru> wrote:

> it had the word bump in it.
>

Yes, it had the word "bump" in it.  "Bump" is an English word.  There
are traffic-calming devices with the word "bump" in their name.

The proposal talks of "bumbs."  "Bumb" is not an English word.  I
cannot find any traffic-calming device with "bumb" in their name.

It's bumP versus bumB.  One is a word.  The other is not a word
but is in the proposal.  Twice.

-- 
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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Tag:traffic_calming=hillocky

[Graeme Fitzpatrick]

On Sun, 20 Dec 2020 at 09:32, Paul Allen  wrote:

> It calls them speed bumps.
>

Yep, it seems like these are just a variety of speed bump
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:traffic_calming & =bump.

The existing definition is more or less OK in that it includes

Thanks

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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Tag:traffic_calming=hillocky

[80hnhtv4agou--- via Tagging]

it had the word bump in it.

  
>Saturday, December 19, 2020 5:56 PM -06:00 from Paul Allen 
>:
> 
>On Sat, 19 Dec 2020 at 23:45, 80hnhtv4agou--- via Tagging < 
>tagging@openstreetmap.org > wrote:
>>https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Tag:traffic_calming%3Ddynamic_bump
> 
>It's not a "hillocky."  The proposal doesn't contain the word "bumb."  It's not
>a rumble strip.
> 
>Was there any reason for posting that?
> 
>--
>Paul
>  
 
 
 
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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Tag:traffic_calming=hillocky

[Paul Allen]

On Sat, 19 Dec 2020 at 23:45, 80hnhtv4agou--- via Tagging <
tagging@openstreetmap.org> wrote:

>
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Tag:traffic_calming%3Ddynamic_bump
>

It's not a "hillocky."  The proposal doesn't contain the word "bumb."  It's
not
a rumble strip.

Was there any reason for posting that?

-- 
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Re: [Tagging] Proposed feature - RFC - Military Bases

[Paul Allen]

On Sat, 19 Dec 2020 at 23:50, Martin Koppenhoefer 
wrote:

>
> On 20. Dec 2020, at 00:35, Paul Allen  wrote:
>
> one swallow doesn't make a summer but it makes a great BJ.
>
>
> you must be talking of ice cream?
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_%26_Jerry%27s
>

You got it.  It's not the first thing on that page, but it's the first that
fits
how I used it. :)

-- 
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Re: [Tagging] sport=shooting_range vs sport=shooting + leisure=pitch

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> On 20. Dec 2020, at 00:44, Brian M. Sperlongano  wrote:
> 
> These guys in Texas will let you drive their tank around and shoot things, 
> for a price:
> 
> https://www.oxhuntingranch.com/activities/hunting-shooting/machine-gun-shooting/


they actually mention “ mortars, artillery”

IMHO these could merit an extra tag, eventually, I’m not likely to come into 
the situation of mapping these, so I’ll refrain from detailing more advanced 
tagging in this case...

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Re: [Tagging] Proposed feature - RFC - Military Bases

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> On 20. Dec 2020, at 00:35, Paul Allen  wrote:
> 
> one swallow doesn't make a summer but it makes a great BJ.


you must be talking of ice cream?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_%26_Jerry%27s___
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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Tag:traffic_calming=hillocky

[80hnhtv4agou--- via Tagging]

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Tag:traffic_calming%3Ddynamic_bump
 
 
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Re: [Tagging] sport=shooting_range vs sport=shooting + leisure=pitch

[Brian M. Sperlongano]

These guys in Texas will let you drive their tank around and shoot things,
for a price:

https://www.oxhuntingranch.com/activities/hunting-shooting/machine-gun-shooting/



On Sat, Dec 19, 2020 at 6:16 PM Martin Koppenhoefer 
wrote:

>
>
> sent from a phone
>
> > On 19. Dec 2020, at 23:59, Jeremy Harris  wrote:
> >
> > I think rifle-shooting was a component of a triathlon in a recent
> > Winter Olympic, too.
>
>
>
> if rifles are „ordnance“ my perplexity dissolves, I did not know the word
> ordnance and looking it up referred me to artillery. I bet you refer to
> biathlon rather than triathlon though ;-)
>
> Cheers Martin
>
>
>
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Re: [Tagging] Proposed feature - RFC - Military Bases

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> On 20. Dec 2020, at 00:35, Paul Allen  wrote:
> 
>> one swallow does not make a summer. ;-)
> 
> I don't see many sharing your viewpoint, either.  :p


https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/historic#values

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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Tag:traffic_calming=hillocky

[Paul Allen]

On Sat, 19 Dec 2020 at 23:31, <80hnhtv4a...@bk.ru> wrote:

> Round Circle Speed Humps
> 
>

Indeed.  But you responded with that information to a post of mine which
was solely about the word "bumb" in the proposal.  Your response here
 was a non sequitur.

In a different post somebody suggested these things might act as
rumble strips.  Your response would have been appropriate there.
Assuming they were not misnamed by somebody who couldn't
think up a better name for them.

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Re: [Tagging] Proposed feature - RFC - Military Bases

[Paul Allen]

On Sat, 19 Dec 2020 at 22:57, Martin Koppenhoefer 
wrote:

>
> > On 19. Dec 2020, at 23:44, Graeme Fitzpatrick 
> wrote:
> >
> > (& I can already hear Paul saying just because it's old doesn't
> necessarily make it historic! :-))
>
> yes, but so far I didn’t read from anybody else that they would share this
> particular concern,


Apart from the wiki page, of course.


> one swallow does not make a summer. ;-)
>

I don't see many sharing your viewpoint, either.  :p

Anyway, one swallow doesn't make a summer but it makes a great BJ.

-- 
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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Tag:traffic_calming=hillocky

[80hnhtv4agou--- via Tagging]

Round Circle Speed Humps
>Saturday, December 19, 2020 5:29 PM -06:00 from Paul Allen 
>:
> 
>On Sat, 19 Dec 2020 at 23:19, 80hnhtv4agou--- via Tagging < 
>tagging@openstreetmap.org > wrote:
>>https://streetsolutionsuk.co.uk/collections/speed-ramps/products/round-yellow-circle-speed-humps-50mm?variant=19772633645113
> 
>That didn't take me where you intended.  I had to navigate from where I ended
>up to those things.  Ended up at the URL you gave, but couldn't get there
>directly.  It calls them speed bumps.  Which doesn't answer my original
>question of whether the word "bumb" in the proposal was a typo or yet
>another kind of traffic calming device.
> 
>It also doesn't directly answer if these function in the same way as
>rumble strips or as speed bumps, but from the name I'd guess
>they're not an alternative to rumble strips.
> 
>--
>Paul
>  
 
 
 
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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Tag:traffic_calming=hillocky

[Paul Allen]

On Sat, 19 Dec 2020 at 23:19, 80hnhtv4agou--- via Tagging <
tagging@openstreetmap.org> wrote:

>
> https://streetsolutionsuk.co.uk/collections/speed-ramps/products/round-yellow-circle-speed-humps-50mm?variant=19772633645113
> 
>

That didn't take me where you intended.  I had to navigate from where I
ended
up to those things.  Ended up at the URL you gave, but couldn't get there
directly.  It calls them speed bumps.  Which doesn't answer my original
question of whether the word "bumb" in the proposal was a typo or yet
another kind of traffic calming device.

It also doesn't directly answer if these function in the same way as
rumble strips or as speed bumps, but from the name I'd guess
they're not an alternative to rumble strips.

-- 
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Re: [Tagging] sport=shooting_range vs sport=shooting + leisure=pitch

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> On 20. Dec 2020, at 00:02, Graeme Fitzpatrick  wrote:
> 
> Another comment suggested =recreation_ground for the whole area (car parks, 
> buildings etc) with shooting=range for the actual area that bullets are 
> flying over.


I have seen some shooting=range but the tag does not make too much sense for 
tagging a shooting range facility.

We have sport=shooting and the physical nature of the place usually would go in 
a leisure tag, maybe sometimes amenity, man_made or natural.
I would see more consistency in shooting=* describing the kind of shooting 
rather than the place, e.g. shooting=rifle / pistol / archery or maybe 
biathlon. These are also already present, have a look:

https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/shooting#values

shooting=range could still be ok, if this is intended to describe the kind of 
shooting, and “range shooting” is a suitable category (e.g. for a sports club, 
e.g. as opposed to clay pigeon shooting, or hunting etc.), but not as a tag for 
a shooting range.

Cheers Martin 


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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Tag:traffic_calming=hillocky

[80hnhtv4agou--- via Tagging]

https://streetsolutionsuk.co.uk/collections/speed-ramps/products/round-yellow-circle-speed-humps-50mm?variant=19772633645113
  
>Saturday, December 19, 2020 3:33 PM -06:00 from Paul Allen 
>:
> 
>On Sat, 19 Dec 2020 at 18:25, Tomáš Hurýn < thur...@gmail.com > wrote:
>> 
>>https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Tag:traffic_calming%3Dhillocky
> 
>Are the two mentions of "bumbs" meant to be "bumps" or are bumbs yet
>another undocumented calming device?
> 
>--
>Paul
> 
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Re: [Tagging] sport=shooting_range vs sport=shooting + leisure=pitch

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> On 19. Dec 2020, at 23:59, Jeremy Harris  wrote:
> 
> I think rifle-shooting was a component of a triathlon in a recent
> Winter Olympic, too.



if rifles are „ordnance“ my perplexity dissolves, I did not know the word 
ordnance and looking it up referred me to artillery. I bet you refer to 
biathlon rather than triathlon though ;-)

Cheers Martin 



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Re: [Tagging] sport=shooting_range vs sport=shooting + leisure=pitch

[Graeme Fitzpatrick]

On Sun, 20 Dec 2020 at 08:59, Jeremy Harris  wrote:

>
> I think rifle-shooting was a component of a triathlon in a recent
> Winter Olympic, too.
>

Winter Olympics has the Biathlon - cross-country skiing & very accurate
shooting, while the Summer Olympics has several different shooting events
including the Decathlon - running, swimming, various other athletics plus
pistol shooting!

Thanks

Graeme
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Re: [Tagging] sport=shooting_range vs sport=shooting + leisure=pitch

[Warin]

On 20/12/20 6:45 am, Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging wrote:

Is there some good use for sport=shooting_range?

Or is it always preferable to use sport=shooting + leisure=pitch?

This is a request to review this edit
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Tag%3Asport%3Dshooting_range=revision=2074293=125712
that ended creating 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:sport%3Dshooting_range





The sport key should be used to indicate the activity .. not the 
physical existence. Despite what the OSMwiki says though various edits.


The physical presence is give by some other key, such as 
landuse=recreation_ground, pitch, etc...



-

Tangents.

Sports?

Just as skiing can be either snow or water .. shooting by some can be 
taken as bow and arrow or guns ...



Pitches?

While 'pitch' is good for many playing fields it doe not suit so well 
for some e.g. darts, table tennis, chess.



Leisure?

As some have pointed out some sports are played for money .. and some 
for both leisure and money. It would be good to move away from the 
leisure key to the landuse key .. non specific as to leisure or 
'professional'. Yes it could create overlap of various landuses .. 
nothing new there though.





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Re: [Tagging] sport=shooting_range vs sport=shooting + leisure=pitch

[Graeme Fitzpatrick]

On Sun, 20 Dec 2020 at 08:48, Martin Koppenhoefer 
wrote:

>
> The leisure key is generally silly, because we assign these tags also to
> sports facilities for professional sports people, but for shooting ranges
> it seems even less appropriate to add them under leisure when the operator
> is the military, a pmc or the police, not to speak of bombing ranges.
>

There was a suggestion on one of the "shooting" talk pages of making it
amenity=shooting_range, due to this exact reason - they're often used for
training by police, security & people interested in home defence, rather
than just as a leisure pastime.

Another issue is how to map them?

Another comment suggested =recreation_ground for the whole area (car parks,
buildings etc) with shooting=range for the actual area that bullets are
flying over.

However, I have seen photos of at least one rifle range in Switzerland,
that has the firing point on one side of a valley, wit the targets on the
other side, & a highway running along the valley floor, 50 m below!

Thanks

Graeme
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Re: [Tagging] sport=shooting_range vs sport=shooting + leisure=pitch

[Jeremy Harris]

On 19/12/2020 22:46, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:

is firing ordnance a leisure activity somewhere? Or a sport? leisure=range 
makes me think about golf driving ranges, but there’s already 
golf=driving_range for it.


Certainly.  Clay-pigeon shooting, for one subtype, as an example.

I think rifle-shooting was a component of a triathlon in a recent
Winter Olympic, too.
--
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  Jeremy

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Re: [Tagging] Proposed feature - RFC - Military Bases

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> On 19. Dec 2020, at 23:44, Graeme Fitzpatrick  wrote:
> 
> (& I can already hear Paul saying just because it's old doesn't necessarily 
> make it historic! :-))


yes, but so far I didn’t read from anybody else that they would share this 
particular concern, one swallow does not make a summer. ;-)

Cheers Martin 



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Re: [Tagging] sport=shooting_range vs sport=shooting + leisure=pitch

[Brian M. Sperlongano]

>
> is firing ordnance a leisure activity somewhere? Or a sport?


Hello, let me introduce to you the United States of America.
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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Tag:traffic_calming=hillocky

[Paul Allen]

On Sat, 19 Dec 2020 at 22:45, 80hnhtv4agou--- via Tagging <
tagging@openstreetmap.org> wrote:

> https://roadsafetygb.org.uk/news/is-the-uk-ready-to-rumble/
>

I am not convinced that article pertains to "hillockys."  It is about
rumble strips and does not show these things.  Somebody else
gave a link to dura-bumps which look similar and have the claimed
advantage of low noise.

-- 
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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Tag:traffic_calming=hillocky

[Warin]

On 20/12/20 9:24 am, Brian M. Sperlongano wrote:
I've seen these in the US also, but I never knew what they were 
called.  I understand that the purpose of them is simply to make noise 
when a car drives over them, as they don't slow you down in any 
appreciable way like a speed bump/hump.


We already have a tag for "a traffic calming device that makes noise 
when a car drives over it", which is a rumble strip 
(see: traffic_calming=rumble_strip).  Note, I am talking about the 
kind that go all the way across the road, and not the kind in the 
shoulder of the road that make noise when you veer out of your lane.


I usually think of rumble strips as grooves in the road, but it 
strikes me that these micro-speed-bump things are essentially the same 
thing -- they make noise when a car goes over it to alert the driver 
of something.


I'm uncomfortable with hillock/hillocky as a value. Cursory searches 
seem to indicate that this isn't a term in use, in any flavor of English.



Rumble strips I am familiar with. They not only cause a noise but a 
vibration too, felt by the people inside the vehicle but not a large 
vehicle deflection.


Are the simply a new kind of rumble strip? So 
traffic_calming=rumble_strip, rumble_strip:structure=circle, 
rumble_strip:orientation=transverse


Alternatively perhaps a better name would be rumble circles?




On Sat, Dec 19, 2020 at 5:08 PM Martin Koppenhoefer 
mailto:dieterdre...@gmail.com>> wrote:




sent from a phone

> On 19. Dec 2020, at 22:53, Jeremy Harris mailto:j...@wizmail.org>> wrote:
>
> traffic_calming=multi_bump  ?


or
traffic_calming=mini_bumps ?

when they come up with something smaller that could still be
micro_bumps ;-)


Cheers Martin

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Re: [Tagging] Proposed feature - RFC - Military Bases

[Brian M. Sperlongano]

Historic or abandoned military features, or military ruins, are clearly not
what this proposal is describing.

On Sat, Dec 19, 2020 at 5:44 PM Graeme Fitzpatrick 
wrote:

> On Sun, 20 Dec 2020 at 02:00, St Niklaas  wrote:
>
>>
>> Your text or proposal seems to be focused on modern times.
>>
>
>  Yes, that's right, as it's intended for current, active, military
> establishments only.
>
> Since every town (vesting) or fortress (fort) has its own barracks in the
>> past
>>
>
> Yes, but they are (usually) no longer a military area, so to my mind
> shouldn't be mapped as landuse=military?
>
> I did earlier raise the question of how to deal with historical sites such
> as the ones you pointed out?
>
> "Ex-military bases, now often either historical precincts / tourist
> attractions / possibly ruins only eg Fort Lytton
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=17/-27.41058/153.15263,
> https://fortlytton.org.au/ & many more similar worldwide. They were, but
> are not now military areas, so how should we tag them?
> museum + tourist attraction + was:landuse=military + was:military=base, or
> ignore all reference to "military"?"
>
> We could also include "historic=fort"
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:historic%3Dfort but that also
> says "a military fort: a stand-alone defensive structure which differs from
> a castle in that there is no permanent residence. There may have been
> temporary housing for the crew", which I have some issues with?
>
> (& I can already hear Paul saying just because it's old doesn't
> necessarily make it historic! :-))
>
> Thanks
>
> Graeme
>
>
>
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Re: [Tagging] sport=shooting_range vs sport=shooting + leisure=pitch

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> On 19. Dec 2020, at 23:29, Brian M. Sperlongano  wrote:
> 
> Perhaps simply leisure=range, as this would be generic to any type of 
> facility where one might fire projectiles or ordnance. 


is firing ordnance a leisure activity somewhere? Or a sport? leisure=range 
makes me think about golf driving ranges, but there’s already 
golf=driving_range for it.

The leisure key is generally silly, because we assign these tags also to sports 
facilities for professional sports people, but for shooting ranges it seems 
even less appropriate to add them under leisure when the operator is the 
military, a pmc or the police, not to speak of bombing ranges.

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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Tag:traffic_calming=hillocky

[80hnhtv4agou--- via Tagging]

https://roadsafetygb.org.uk/news/is-the-uk-ready-to-rumble/

Saturday, December 19, 2020 3:43 PM -06:00 from Paul Allen :
 
On Sat, 19 Dec 2020 at 19:45, Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging 
 
>I wonder whatever there is even a British English name for that
>(or is hillocky an UK name?)
 
As far as I can tell we don't use these in the UK.  If we did, though,
we wouldn't call them "hillocky" but we might call them "hillocks."
Calling them "hillocky" would be like calling other calming
measures "bumpy" and "humpy."  "Hillocky" is an
adjective.
 
"Hillocks" (plural) would be correct here as a single
traffic-calming object would be composed of several
hillocks.  Correct English grammar, not necessarily
what we'd actually call them if they were introduced
here.  They might end up being called molehills or
mounds.  Hillock implies something larger than these
are.
 
--
Paul
 
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Re: [Tagging] Proposed feature - RFC - Military Bases

[Graeme Fitzpatrick]

 On Sun, 20 Dec 2020 at 02:00, St Niklaas  wrote:

>
> Your text or proposal seems to be focused on modern times.
>

 Yes, that's right, as it's intended for current, active, military
establishments only.

Since every town (vesting) or fortress (fort) has its own barracks in the
> past
>

Yes, but they are (usually) no longer a military area, so to my mind
shouldn't be mapped as landuse=military?

I did earlier raise the question of how to deal with historical sites such
as the ones you pointed out?

"Ex-military bases, now often either historical precincts / tourist
attractions / possibly ruins only eg Fort Lytton
https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=17/-27.41058/153.15263,
https://fortlytton.org.au/ & many more similar worldwide. They were, but
are not now military areas, so how should we tag them?
museum + tourist attraction + was:landuse=military + was:military=base, or
ignore all reference to "military"?"

We could also include "historic=fort"
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:historic%3Dfort but that also says
"a military fort: a stand-alone defensive structure which differs from a
castle in that there is no permanent residence. There may have been
temporary housing for the crew", which I have some issues with?

(& I can already hear Paul saying just because it's old doesn't necessarily
make it historic! :-))

Thanks

Graeme
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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Tag:traffic_calming=hillocky

[Florimond Berthoux]

Hi,

It's seems "speed bumps" is the way it's called :

http://speedbumps.co.za/Our-Products/
https://www.dreamstime.com/speed-bumps-wenceslas-square-some-yellow-prague-rain-image104614297
https://www.ebay.co.uk/c/2293575914
speed humps here
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Round-Circle-Speed-Humps-75mm-Traffic-Calming-Bumps-BLACK-OR-YELLOW-/113999252188


Le sam. 19 déc. 2020 à 23:27, Brian M. Sperlongano  a
écrit :

> I've seen these in the US also, but I never knew what they were called.  I
> understand that the purpose of them is simply to make noise when a car
> drives over them, as they don't slow you down in any appreciable way like a
> speed bump/hump.
>
> We already have a tag for "a traffic calming device that makes noise when
> a car drives over it", which is a rumble strip
> (see: traffic_calming=rumble_strip).  Note, I am talking about the kind
> that go all the way across the road, and not the kind in the shoulder of
> the road that make noise when you veer out of your lane.
>
> I usually think of rumble strips as grooves in the road, but it strikes me
> that these micro-speed-bump things are essentially the same thing -- they
> make noise when a car goes over it to alert the driver of something.
>
> I'm uncomfortable with hillock/hillocky as a value.  Cursory searches seem
> to indicate that this isn't a term in use, in any flavor of English.
>
> On Sat, Dec 19, 2020 at 5:08 PM Martin Koppenhoefer <
> dieterdre...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> sent from a phone
>>
>> > On 19. Dec 2020, at 22:53, Jeremy Harris  wrote:
>> >
>> > traffic_calming=multi_bump  ?
>>
>>
>> or
>> traffic_calming=mini_bumps ?
>>
>> when they come up with something smaller that could still be micro_bumps
>> ;-)
>>
>>
>> Cheers Martin
>>
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-- 
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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Tag:traffic_calming=hillocky

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> On 19. Dec 2020, at 23:27, Brian M. Sperlongano  wrote:
> 
> I understand that the purpose of them is simply to make noise when a car 
> drives over them, as they don't slow you down in any appreciable way like a 
> speed bump/hump.


I thought they would make people drive slower, while retaining a possibility 
for bicycles to pass in between.
I guess these would be counted in?
https://www.durabump.com/

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Re: [Tagging] sport=shooting_range vs sport=shooting + leisure=pitch

[Brian M. Sperlongano]

Perhaps simply leisure=range, as this would be generic to any type of
facility where one might fire projectiles or ordnance.  You could then
extend that with something like range= to specify what is being fired,
and/or the existing sport= key if it's considered a shooting sport.

On Sat, Dec 19, 2020 at 5:18 PM Martin Koppenhoefer 
wrote:

>
>
> sent from a phone
>
> On 19. Dec 2020, at 21:35, Paul Allen  wrote:
>
> Or is it always preferable to use sport=shooting + leisure=pitch?
>>
>
> That's an improvement.  Not ideal, because it's practised at a
> range, not on a pitch.  Just because we have other sports that
> have been shoe-horned into leisure=pitch I don't see a good
> reason to continue making that error.
>
>
>
> I agree with this, there’s a lot of abuse for “pitch”, and these are not
> arguments for continuing the line, it’s never too late to learn from past
> errors ;-)
>
> leisure=shooting_range might make sense? There are also 4000
> military=range (is this about shooting? bombing? )
>
> Cheers Martin
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Re: [Tagging] Proposed feature - RFC - Military Bases

[Graeme Fitzpatrick]

On Sun, 20 Dec 2020 at 03:59, Martin Koppenhoefer 
wrote:

>
>  when the term is military „base“ I would guess it will always be intended
> for more than a few weeks?


Yes, that's right.

Even if the label is „temporary“ it probably means years and not days?
>

Usually several months, at the very least, but there are military bases at
various sites around the world that have been at that spot for hundreds of
years!

Thanks

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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Tag:traffic_calming=hillocky

[Brian M. Sperlongano]

I've seen these in the US also, but I never knew what they were called.  I
understand that the purpose of them is simply to make noise when a car
drives over them, as they don't slow you down in any appreciable way like a
speed bump/hump.

We already have a tag for "a traffic calming device that makes noise when a
car drives over it", which is a rumble strip
(see: traffic_calming=rumble_strip).  Note, I am talking about the kind
that go all the way across the road, and not the kind in the shoulder of
the road that make noise when you veer out of your lane.

I usually think of rumble strips as grooves in the road, but it strikes me
that these micro-speed-bump things are essentially the same thing -- they
make noise when a car goes over it to alert the driver of something.

I'm uncomfortable with hillock/hillocky as a value.  Cursory searches seem
to indicate that this isn't a term in use, in any flavor of English.

On Sat, Dec 19, 2020 at 5:08 PM Martin Koppenhoefer 
wrote:

>
>
> sent from a phone
>
> > On 19. Dec 2020, at 22:53, Jeremy Harris  wrote:
> >
> > traffic_calming=multi_bump  ?
>
>
> or
> traffic_calming=mini_bumps ?
>
> when they come up with something smaller that could still be micro_bumps
> ;-)
>
>
> Cheers Martin
>
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Re: [Tagging] sport=shooting_range vs sport=shooting + leisure=pitch

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> On 19. Dec 2020, at 21:35, Paul Allen  wrote:
> 
>> Or is it always preferable to use sport=shooting + leisure=pitch?
> 
> That's an improvement.  Not ideal, because it's practised at a
> range, not on a pitch.  Just because we have other sports that
> have been shoe-horned into leisure=pitch I don't see a good
> reason to continue making that error. 


I agree with this, there’s a lot of abuse for “pitch”, and these are not 
arguments for continuing the line, it’s never too late to learn from past 
errors ;-)

leisure=shooting_range might make sense? There are also 4000 military=range (is 
this about shooting? bombing? )

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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Tag:traffic_calming=hillocky

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> On 19. Dec 2020, at 22:53, Jeremy Harris  wrote:
> 
> traffic_calming=multi_bump  ?


or
traffic_calming=mini_bumps ?

when they come up with something smaller that could still be micro_bumps ;-)


Cheers Martin 

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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Tag:traffic_calming=hillocky

[Jeremy Harris]

On 19/12/2020 21:41, Paul Allen wrote:

On Sat, 19 Dec 2020 at 19:45, Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging

I wonder whatever there is even a British English name for that
(or is hillocky an UK name?)



 They might end up being called molehills or
mounds.


traffic_calming=multi_bump  ?
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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Tag:traffic_calming=hillocky

[Paul Allen]

On Sat, 19 Dec 2020 at 19:45, Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging

>
> I wonder whatever there is even a British English name for that
> (or is hillocky an UK name?)
>

As far as I can tell we don't use these in the UK.  If we did, though,
we wouldn't call them "hillocky" but we might call them "hillocks."
Calling them "hillocky" would be like calling other calming
measures "bumpy" and "humpy."  "Hillocky" is an
adjective.

"Hillocks" (plural) would be correct here as a single
traffic-calming object would be composed of several
hillocks.  Correct English grammar, not necessarily
what we'd actually call them if they were introduced
here.  They might end up being called molehills or
mounds.  Hillock implies something larger than these
are.

-- 
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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Tag:traffic_calming=hillocky

[Paul Allen]

On Sat, 19 Dec 2020 at 18:25, Tomáš Hurýn  wrote:

>
>
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Tag:traffic_calming%3Dhillocky
>

Are the two mentions of "bumbs" meant to be "bumps" or are bumbs yet
another undocumented calming device?

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Re: [Tagging] sport=shooting_range vs sport=shooting + leisure=pitch

[Alan Mackie]

On Sat, 19 Dec 2020, 15:49 Brian M. Sperlongano, 
wrote:

> I understand pitch to mean "a playing field" (as "pitch" is not often used
> in US English -- we would say "soccer field" for example.).  I don't know
> if a shooting range is a pitch or not, but it definitely isn't a playing
> field.
>
The wiki recommends leisure=pitch for archery which also seems ill advised.
If anything it might be considered a danger zone of some  kind.

I think we could do with a tag for these sorts of areas. It would probably
be best if it depreciated leisure=pitch for the areas where you would
expect a javelin, discus, "hammer" or shot put to land too. It may also be
an appropriate supplementary tag for driving ranges.

>
> On Sat, Dec 19, 2020 at 3:35 PM Paul Allen  wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 19 Dec 2020 at 19:47, Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging <
>> tagging@openstreetmap.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Is there some good use for sport=shooting_range?
>>>
>>
>> Not in English as she is spoken.  "Shooting range" is not a sport.
>> "Shooting" is a sport.
>>
>>>
>>> Or is it always preferable to use sport=shooting + leisure=pitch?
>>>
>>
>> That's an improvement.  Not ideal, because it's practised at a
>> range, not on a pitch.  Just because we have other sports that
>> have been shoe-horned into leisure=pitch I don't see a good
>> reason to continue making that error.  A few bad ones,
>> but no good one.
>>
>> --
>> Paul
>>
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Re: [Tagging] sport=shooting_range vs sport=shooting + leisure=pitch

[Paul Allen]

On Sat, 19 Dec 2020 at 20:49, Brian M. Sperlongano 
wrote:

> I understand pitch to mean "a playing field" (as "pitch" is not often used
> in US English -- we would say "soccer field" for example.).
>

Pitch and field are almost synonyms.  A lot of overlap, some differences.


>   I don't know if a shooting range is a pitch or not, but it definitely
> isn't a playing field.
>

A shooting pitch or shooting field is wrong.  As is ice hockey pitch, ice
hockey
field, golf pitch, golf field, tennis pitch, and tennis field.

-- 
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Re: [Tagging] sport=shooting_range vs sport=shooting + leisure=pitch

[Brian M. Sperlongano]

I understand pitch to mean "a playing field" (as "pitch" is not often used
in US English -- we would say "soccer field" for example.).  I don't know
if a shooting range is a pitch or not, but it definitely isn't a playing
field.

On Sat, Dec 19, 2020 at 3:35 PM Paul Allen  wrote:

> On Sat, 19 Dec 2020 at 19:47, Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging <
> tagging@openstreetmap.org> wrote:
>
>> Is there some good use for sport=shooting_range?
>>
>
> Not in English as she is spoken.  "Shooting range" is not a sport.
> "Shooting" is a sport.
>
>>
>> Or is it always preferable to use sport=shooting + leisure=pitch?
>>
>
> That's an improvement.  Not ideal, because it's practised at a
> range, not on a pitch.  Just because we have other sports that
> have been shoe-horned into leisure=pitch I don't see a good
> reason to continue making that error.  A few bad ones,
> but no good one.
>
> --
> Paul
>
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Re: [Tagging] sport=shooting_range vs sport=shooting + leisure=pitch

[Paul Allen]

On Sat, 19 Dec 2020 at 19:47, Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging <
tagging@openstreetmap.org> wrote:

> Is there some good use for sport=shooting_range?
>

Not in English as she is spoken.  "Shooting range" is not a sport.
"Shooting" is a sport.

>
> Or is it always preferable to use sport=shooting + leisure=pitch?
>

That's an improvement.  Not ideal, because it's practised at a
range, not on a pitch.  Just because we have other sports that
have been shoe-horned into leisure=pitch I don't see a good
reason to continue making that error.  A few bad ones,
but no good one.

-- 
Paul
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[Tagging] sport=shooting_range vs sport=shooting + leisure=pitch

[Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging]

Is there some good use for sport=shooting_range?

Or is it always preferable to use sport=shooting + leisure=pitch?

This is a request to review this edit
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Tag%3Asport%3Dshooting_range=revision=2074293=125712
that ended creating 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:sport%3Dshooting_range
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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Tag:traffic_calming=hillocky

[Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging]

Thanks for documenting this new value!

I edited page in attempt to provide more specific definition
(based on photos).

To author of a proposal: feel free to revert my edit or change it
or do something else with it

I wonder whatever there is even a British English name for that
(or is hillocky an UK name?)
Dec 19, 2020, 19:23 by thur...@gmail.com:

>
> Hi,
>
>
>   I would like introduce traffic calming device not present in the list of 
> devices.
>
>
>
> Definition: A traffic calming device with specific qualities
>
>
>
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Tag:traffic_calming%3Dhillocky>
>   
>
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
> Tomas Huryn
>
>

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[Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Tag:traffic_calming=hillocky

[Tomáš Hurýn]

Hi,
  I would like introduce traffic calming device not present in the list 
of devices.

Definition: A traffic calming device with specific qualities 

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/
Tag:traffic_calming%3Dhillocky[1] 


Regards,
Tomas Huryn


[1] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/
Tag:traffic_calming%3Dhillocky
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Re: [Tagging] Proposed feature - RFC - Military Bases

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

 

sent from a phone

> On 19. Dec 2020, at 02:02, Graeme Fitzpatrick  wrote:
> 
> As with most things OSM, this tag would really only apply to permanent / 
> long-term sites. "Temporary" locations "in the field" wouldn't be mapped or 
> tagged this way (plus, of course, the challenges of locating & mapping them 
> in a war zone!)


 when the term is military „base“ I would guess it will always be intended for 
more than a few weeks? Even if the label is „temporary“ it probably means years 
and not days?

Cheers Martin 



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