Re: [Tagging] RFC on two proposals: Motorway indication; Expressway indication

2010-07-21 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/7/17 Paul Johnson : > Motorway doesn't (or shouldn't) imply any access restrictions, just that > it doesn't have at-grade intersections (save for emergency vehicle, or > rarely, extremely rural range access). IMHO motorways should indeed imply access restrictions for non- and light-motorized

Re: [Tagging] covered definition in the wiki

2010-07-20 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/7/20 Richard Mann : > So something like this: > > http://www.classiccarports.com/images/galleries/walkways/covered-walkway-2.jpg > > should be rendered the same way as a tunnel? yes. You would map the roof (building=roof) and the way itself will be rendered above (as tunnel) cheers, Martin

Re: [Tagging] covered definition in the wiki

2010-07-20 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/7/20 John Smith : > On 20 July 2010 19:11, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer wrote: >> exactly, there is a lot of application cases and I don't see why our >> definition should be so arbitrarily restrictive. > > It's probably only limited because people didn't think

Re: [Tagging] covered definition in the wiki

2010-07-20 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/7/20 Richard Mann : > How would you like it rendered? Covered-as-in-a-shopping-mall is quite > different to covered-as-in-protected-from-the-rain. The real problem > is that it's scope is too broad. The scope is not the problem. If a way is covered I'd expect it to be rendered dashed, regard

Re: [Tagging] covered definition in the wiki

2010-07-20 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/7/20 Richard Mann : > Layers don't work when there are area/way conflicts, because the norm > for rendering is to draw areas first then ways on top. So you have to > have a flag that says "this way isn't really on top". We have a > perfectly adequate flag for this function (tunnel=yes), but pe

[Tagging] covered definition in the wiki

2010-07-19 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
the covered page lists these use-cases: A. denote that a highway, railway, pedestrian way or waterway passes under a building or other structure, where it is inappropriate to use layering as the differentiator between covered and uncovered. or where "covered" will more clearly define the condition.

Re: [Tagging] paved=yes/no

2010-07-19 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/7/19 John Smith : > On 19 July 2010 23:47, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer wrote: >> No, I didn't miss that. I was replying to Pieren in the cited message. >> You're right, it is not impossible, still it requires a bit of effort >> due to the number of surface values. >

Re: [Tagging] paved=yes/no

2010-07-19 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/7/19 John Smith : > On 19 July 2010 23:33, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer wrote: >> the difference is that surface=paved is preliminary and paved=yes is >> definite. >> What's the difference between surface=paved and surface=cobblestone >> and surface=asphalt? That

Re: [Tagging] paved=yes/no

2010-07-19 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/7/19 Pieren : > I think that's really stupid. Again, just to make 0.5% contributors happy, > we create a dupplicated tag ... Then wait 2 months and a newcomer will ask > "what's the difference between 'surface=paved' and 'paved=yes' ?". the difference is that surface=paved is preliminary and

Re: [Tagging] paved=yes/no

2010-07-19 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/7/16 Richard Welty : > On 7/15/10 5:45 PM, John Smith wrote: >> >> On 16 July 2010 07:42, Richard Mann >>  wrote: >> >>> >>> Can't find it on the wiki - do you have a ref? >>> >> >> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:paved I did that, because of 2 reasons: 1) there is a number of users

Re: [Tagging] Greenery adjacent to roads

2010-07-15 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/7/14 Steve Bennett : > On Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 11:23 AM, Nathan Edgars II wrote: >> Perhaps landuse=highway covering the entire highway right-of-way >> (including sidewalks), and then surface=grass for the green areas? landuse=highway should (other discussions here in the past) comprise the

Re: [Tagging] tagging religious features (abbey, monastery, shrine), probably subtags of place of worship

2010-07-08 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/7/7 Vincent Pottier : > On the community building I put the tags > religion=christian > denomination=catholic > community=NNN  using the abreviation : I used operator, as I thought that it was an already established tag that would describe this as well. cheers, Martin _

Re: [Tagging] tagging religious features (abbey, monastery, shrine), probably subtags of place of worship

2010-07-08 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/7/8 Richard Welty : > that's fine for the part that is a cathedral. a monastery will usually > contain > living and working areas, gardens, etc. > > perhaps an area with > > landuse=monastery I'd prefer something more generic like landuse=religious For the site relation I used site=monaster

[Tagging] tagging religious features (abbey, monastery, shrine), probably subtags of place of worship

2010-07-07 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
Recently I found that we have no documented tags for abbeys, monasteries, shrines. Do you think it would be better to put them into amenity as subtags of place of worship or would it be better to have own tags? If we go for subtags we probably will have to add also one for churches, cathedrals, etc

Re: [Tagging] Zone 30 (maxspeed)

2010-07-07 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/7/7 Colin Smale : > So > IMHO all ways should have their maxspeed indicated individually in the > traditional way +1 , and if someone wants to draw a polygon to indicate the > limits of the zone, well, OSM won't stop them. IMHO a polygon is not right, as the zone applies only to roads, no

Re: [Tagging] Zone 30 (maxspeed)

2010-07-06 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/7/6 Richard Mann : > maxspeed=20 mph+maxspeed:note=Oxford 20 mph zone I'd suggest to use source:maxspeed instead of note, as I think it is already widely used and documented in the wiki: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:source:maxspeed You could adopt the scheme and add your definiti

Re: [Tagging] Zone 30 (maxspeed)

2010-07-06 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/7/6 Sebastian Klein : > -- --- > 944    zone:maxspeed=DE:30 > 631    zone:traffic=DE:30 > 516    source:maxspeed=traffic_zone > 433    source:maxspeed=DE:zone30 > 152    zone:speed=30 > 140    maxspeed:zone=yes >  40    source:maxspeed=zone30 > > So which one to choose? Certainly there is

Re: [Tagging] Tagging churches that use non-church buildings.

2010-07-05 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/7/5 John Smith : > How many uses should we tag, what if it's mostly used for basketball 5 > days of the week? What about school dances? Parent/Teacher meetings? > Scouts? We should map all of them. Please invent a scheme that allows for this ;-) cheers, Martin

Re: [Tagging] Counting lanes: include merging or turn lanes?

2010-07-04 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/7/4 Alan Millar : > How are people using the "lanes" tag on motorways?  Do you count the on/off > ramps that come and go? > On a lot of the freeways near me, they have two main driving lanes on each > direction, so I set it up as a dual carriage way with one-way on each side, > and mark each s

Re: [Tagging] Billboards and other kinds of advert

2010-07-04 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/7/4 y...@o2.pl : > 2010/7/3 Tobias Knerr : >> The information key is currently only defined as a subkey for >> tourism=information, so I'd rather not use it. Amenities tend to be >> something you might actively look for. How about using man_made instead? > > Sounds good. > >> Isn't that simply

Re: [Tagging] football or soccer ?

2010-07-01 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/7/1 Anthony : > The benefit is precisely the removal of the thing you find cool.  People > won't think they understand a key/value simply because they see the name of > the tag. I see your point and it is valid sometimes, but often it is not. E.g. amenity=post_box or oneway=yes. Or landuse

Re: [Tagging] football or soccer ?

2010-07-01 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/7/1 John Smith : >> we already do this with presets, and I don't like the concept either >> ;-), I'm using the english JOSM version because of this. Part of the >> "problem" in this thread derives exactly from this (soccer vs >> football). > > You disagree with the translation someone else mad

Re: [Tagging] football or soccer ?

2010-07-01 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/7/1 John Smith : > Not that I'm advocating this at all, and not that english names can't > be used in the same manner for the purposes of translations, but there > is several ways you could do this and have numbers that didn't > conflict, for example you could use UUIDs, you could do a hierarc

Re: [Tagging] football or soccer ?

2010-06-30 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/6/30 Zeke Farwell : > Wow….  after following the back and forth on this thread I'm really starting > to understand the argument for numeric tagging schemes > sport=305 (american football) > sport=246 (association football, football, soccer, calcio, etc…) > sport=220 (rugby) > Is anyone going t

Re: [Tagging] football or soccer ?

2010-06-30 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/6/30 John Smith : > Not really, or at least not most area shapes I've seen as people tag > stadiums or several fields in the same area, or just do a node. personally I tag them sport=soccer, leisure=pitch for the single field. cheers, Martin ___

Re: [Tagging] football or soccer ?

2010-06-30 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/6/29 Richard Welty : > as a practical matter (mapping football fields), there are only two relevant > ones > in the North America: outdoor fields of 100 yards in length (US college & > pro > games, outdoors), and outdoor fields of 110 yards in length (Canadian). and > i see no compelling reaso

Re: [Tagging] football or soccer ?

2010-06-28 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/6/28 Vincent Pottier : > The discussion is finaly : what to put in the JOSM preset. > > I just drew a square. I have selected "Pré-réglages > Sports > Sports de > balle > football" and the tag I hhave got is "sport=soccer" > > I have drawn an other square. I have selected "Pré-réglages > Sport

Re: [Tagging] football or soccer ?

2010-06-28 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/6/28 Peteris Krisjanis : > Martin, I see alias tags as way to phase out old tag and replace it > with new one. I'd love this to work out but unfortunately in the past this never worked and resulted always in more confusion than before because new tags never managed to completely replace old

Re: [Tagging] football or soccer ?

2010-06-28 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/6/28 John Smith : > On 28 June 2010 20:20, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer wrote: >> or maybe all three versions and some other versions as well that >> weren't thought of right now. Why should using our data be easy? > > highway=path already gave alias tagging a precedent, s

Re: [Tagging] football or soccer ?

2010-06-28 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/6/28 Peteris Krisjanis : > Or there could be third way - just propose sport=association_football > as alias of sport=soccer and use it from now on. I think this would be > best way to deal with it. or maybe all three versions and some other versions as well that weren't thought of right now.

Re: [Tagging] football or soccer ?

2010-06-28 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/6/28 Pieren : > Just note that 'soccer' and 'football' seem to be both present in JOSM > presets... +1, and please note that the icon for "football" shows a handegg. > Anyway, I will not fight for such tags but it seems that in this list, some > people are always agains changes "because it

Re: [Tagging] [OSM-talk] Tsunami warning siren?

2010-06-28 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/6/28 John Smith : > emergency=siren ? > > I'm sure this sort of thing deserves it's own category. +1, and some subtag if the reason/function is specific (siren=tsunami or siren=storm_warning or something similar and more English). cheers, Martin

Re: [Tagging] football or soccer ?

2010-06-28 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/6/28 Jason Cunningham : > Yes, the wiki needs to be changed to tell people not to use the insulting > word 'soccer', especially as we try to use British English to stop tags > getting confusing. -1, no the wiki is documenting the actual usage of tags, it is not an authority to change the com

Re: [Tagging] football or soccer ?

2010-06-28 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/6/28 pavithran : > On 27 June 2010 17:55, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer wrote: >> >> -1, AFAIK we use soccer in Germany, Italy and probably elsewhere, >> while football refers to american football (looking at the icons, >> preset icons, etc.). > > http://de.wikipe

Re: [Tagging] football or soccer ?

2010-06-27 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/6/27 Andre Engels : > In my opinion, football being multi-interpretable, the name should not > be used for either. sport=soccer is 100% clear, > sport=american_football also is. sport=football can be different > things, and therefore is to be avoided except if for whatever reason > you know so

Re: [Tagging] football or soccer ?

2010-06-27 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/6/27 Richard Mann : > In Europe soccer is winning by a factor of about 12:1, but the 2700 > "football"s had probably better be interpreted as soccer in the > absence of other evidence. -1, you can interpret what you like, but please don't change the tags if you don't know the place. There is

Re: [Tagging] football or soccer ?

2010-06-27 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/6/27 Pieren : > On Sun, Jun 27, 2010 at 1:33 PM, pavithran wrote: >> >> As a worldwide project which name should we prefer ? >> > > "soccer" in US and Canada and "football" everywhere else. -1, AFAIK we use soccer in Germany, Italy and probably elsewhere, while football refers to american f

Re: [Tagging] 'name' variation tags standardisation

2010-06-25 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/6/25 Cartinus : > I'm afraid most people don't think "It looks better." is a compelling reason. actually I do think that "looks better" is a good reason. It follows some logics that makes mapping easier for everybody. cheers, Martin ___ Tagging m

Re: [Tagging] 'name' variation tags standardisation

2010-06-25 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/6/25 Craig Wallace : >> int_name ->  name:international >> nat_name ->  name:national >> reg_name ->  name:regional >> loc_name ->  name:local >> old_name ->  name:old >> alt_name ->  name:alt or name:alternative >> official_name ->  name:official >> >> But then we can have structures like th

Re: [Tagging] What's the proper way to map multiple rail tracks in a street?

2010-06-24 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/6/24 Cartinus : > Yes, it does make sense: I told you you had to make a choice between a simple > model or a complex one. Obviously you don't like the simple one. So now you > have to design a complex one for the multi-lane road and convince other > people to map in the same way. Good luck.

Re: [Tagging] What's the proper way to map multiple rail tracks in a street?

2010-06-23 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/6/24 Nathan Edgars II : >> I would use: >> railway=* >> tracks=2 > > Except that then you don't have the individual positions of the tracks. +1, but until you map single lanes you won't have more than one way. cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing l

Re: [Tagging] What classification for a connecting link?

2010-06-18 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/6/18 Richard Mann : > The first one is motorway_link, the second primary (because it's > two-way), the third primary_link, the fourth could be just about > anything from trunk to service. Mapnik makes a mess if a link > intersects a service, but that's cos Mapnik renders a trunk_link under > a

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - Advanced stop line

2010-06-17 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/6/17 Alex Wardle : > Could people please look and vote on this proposal. > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Advanced_stop_line IMHO before voting you should make the actual tags to describe the situation more visible on the proposal page. There were also comments that "as

Re: [Tagging] What classification for a connecting link?

2010-06-17 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/6/17 : > "The highway tag is the primary tag used for highways. It is often the > only tag.  It is a very general and sometimes vague description of the > importance of the highway for the road grid. " > > The term "importance" isn't defined Why shouldn't importance not be defined? It is po

Re: [Tagging] Aeroway=Aerodrome Modifier Tags?

2010-06-17 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/6/17 Zeke Farwell : > On Thu, Jun 17, 2010 at 12:21 AM, John Smith > wrote: >> >> Everything you talked about above is specifically about rendering, not >> about mapping, in terms of mapping airports you really need to base >> things on a 1:1 basis > If you are making > an aviation specific m

Re: [Tagging] [Talk-us] Aeroway=Aerodrome Modifier Tags?

2010-06-16 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/6/16 Zeke Farwell : > Those who think a general importance tag with numeric values would be best ...> I think a general importance=1,2,3,4... tag to serve as a renderer hint has > merit as well.  This could be used by many features in OSM.  ... FYI, there is already a draft for this in the wi

Re: [Tagging] Aeroway=Aerodrome Modifier Tags?

2010-06-16 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/6/16 John Smith : > The problem with using subjective tagging is you can't easily quantify > it, where as things like air traffic is objective. But what you can do is compare it to the surrounding / context / nationwide / worldwide. It's like the highway key for tertiary, secondary, primary.

Re: [Tagging] highway=motorway and motorroad (implies)

2010-06-15 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/6/15 Steve Bennett : > http://www.nearmap.com/?ll=-37.790341,145.039779&z=19&t=k&nmd=20100416 > > You tell me which of those is a highway=motorway and which is a highway=trunk. actually there seems quite some traffic, that's why I would consider it extremely dangerous to use the shoulder by

Re: [Tagging] highway=motorway and motorroad (implies)

2010-06-15 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/6/15 Steve Bennett : > And since > there isn't much difference between a shoulder and a bike lane there is a huge difference IMO. The presence of a bike lane suggests that the road was thought (or later adapted) also for bicycle use, it will usually be convenient to enter and leave the bike

Re: [Tagging] Aeroway=Aerodrome Modifier Tags?

2010-06-15 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/6/15 Zeke Farwell : > Well aeroway=helipad is documented on the wiki.  Doesn't render currently > though. It does render in t...@h, mapnik doesn't show it. What about creating a site-relation for airports, where the runways are entered and the application can then decide how important and

Re: [Tagging] highway=motorway and motorroad (implies)

2010-06-13 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/6/12 Nathan Edgars II : > class than the segments that prohibit bikes. They should be tagged > highway=motorway bicycle=yes or bicycle=designated. +1, that's the point: tag the exception, and not bicycle=no on every other piece of motorway. At least for motorways this should be easiely poss

Re: [Tagging] highway=motorway and motorroad (implies)

2010-06-12 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/6/12 Roy Wallace : >> >> why not just service=motorway? > > To me, service=motorway implies that the feature "is a motorway". How > would you describe the feature? - use that as the value. +1, that's why it is considered appropriate: the service area is indeed part of the motorway zone (e.g.

Re: [Tagging] highway=motorway and motorroad (implies)

2010-06-10 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/6/10 Elena of Valhalla : > On 6/10/10, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer wrote: >> http://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Datei:Zeichen_334.svg&filetimestamp=20060506221325 >> >> everything in between is a motorway. > > In Italy e.g. the end of motorway sign (like the on

Re: [Tagging] highway=motorway and motorroad (implies)

2010-06-10 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/6/10 Pieren : > On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 4:41 PM, fly wrote: >> >> yes, in Germany. If the Road is in/under cronstuction and also some ends >> of >> motorways. They are sign as motorways but the only have one lane and some >> have >> no physical barrier in between. >> >> This situation can som

Re: [Tagging] highway=motorway and motorroad (implies)

2010-06-10 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/6/10 Elena of Valhalla : > On 6/10/10, fly wrote: >> Am 10.06.2010 15:23, schrieb Pieren: >>>     1. I know some motorways which are not oneway. >>> not in Europe >> yes, in Germany. If the Road is in/under cronstuction and also some ends of >> motorways. > > End of motorways that aren't onew

Re: [Tagging] [OSM-talk] Tagging "wide" steps (tribune / terrace)

2010-06-10 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/6/10 fly : >  and what happens with the rest of the steps on the right-hand-side > > You can not see it but the top 2 steps go off shape on the right side. - leads > to one more relation. OK, if outside the foto there is something happening like this, you will need another relation for this.

Re: [Tagging] highway=motorway and motorroad (implies)

2010-06-10 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/6/10 fly : > If access=no is implied, you need motorcycle=yes, cause right no only > motorcar=yes is implied. Better would be to imply motor_vehicle=yes where do you get this from? IMHO access=no is not implied. > from your suggestion lanes=2 should be implied aswell. I'm against implying

Re: [Tagging] [OSM-talk] Tagging "wide" steps (tribune / terrace)

2010-06-10 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/6/10 M∡rtin Koppenhoefer : > 2010/6/10 fly : >> Have a look: >> http://www.fotocommunity.de/pc/pc/display/17927910 >> >> I said it is even more complicated and even on this picture you do not see >> all >> steps ! > > > OK, but the steps o

Re: [Tagging] [OSM-talk] Tagging "wide" steps (tribune / terrace)

2010-06-10 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/6/10 fly : > Have a look: > http://www.fotocommunity.de/pc/pc/display/17927910 > > I said it is even more complicated and even on this picture you do not see all > steps ! OK, but the steps on the picture are not that complicated. You need only 2 relations: one with 11 steps (or 12 if the lo

Re: [Tagging] [OSM-talk] Tagging "wide" steps (tribune / terrace)

2010-06-10 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/6/10 fly : http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/957489 > I still do not know where to put the information that you have to drop steps > from the bottom and not from the top. if you have different amount of steps inside the area, you will currently have to model more than one relati

Re: [Tagging] [OSM-talk] Tagging "wide" steps (tribune / terrace)

2010-06-10 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/6/10 fly : > validator gives warnings about the lower/upper way because these ways do not > have any tag. > Do we need a tag for these ways ? IMHO it shouldn't as the way is part of a relation. It doesn't for mp-relations for instance. cheers, Martin ___

Re: [Tagging] Cable distribution cabinet

2010-06-09 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/6/9 Steve Bennett : > Yes, but this scheme will never work because it's totally at odds with > English. When English is your second language, all tags seem equally > arbitrary, but English speakers will expect power=station to be a > power station, and power=sub_station to be a substation. And

Re: [Tagging] [OSM-talk] Tagging "wide" steps (tribune / terrace)

2010-06-08 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/6/9 M∡rtin Koppenhoefer : > 0 for the lowest way > 1 is at higher elevation than 0 > 2 > 3 sorry, forget about this, it makes things too complicated. cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.opens

Re: [Tagging] [OSM-talk] Tagging "wide" steps (tribune / terrace)

2010-06-08 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/6/9 Roy Wallace : > So just to summarise, you would have a relation: > type=area > highway=steps > step_count=15 (already documented on the wiki) > > with way members: > role=lower, > role=upper, and two > role=lateral (I don't think these values need to be prefixed with steps:) that's fine,

Re: [Tagging] [OSM-talk] Tagging "wide" steps (tribune / terrace)

2010-06-08 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/6/8 fly : > Interesting relation. thanks, it is capable to model a lot more (lanes, road surface without explicit "inner" borders, detailed barriers with less effort, ...), but unfortunately I'm not a programmer to prove it could work. > We need some examples as data to have a look at. May

Re: [Tagging] [OSM-talk] Tagging "wide" steps (tribune / terrace)

2010-06-08 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/6/7 Roy Wallace : > On Mon, Jun 7, 2010 at 10:46 PM, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer > wrote: > Martin, I don't really know what you mean. Perhaps I don't understand > the type=area proposal properly. Can you give us a full example (i.e. > the tags) of how you would map those

Re: [Tagging] Cable distribution cabinet

2010-06-08 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/6/8 John Smith : > power=sub_station > voltage:from=330kV > voltage:to=100kV following recent discussions on Talk-DE, this would be power=station, while the power station (generating station) itself is called power=generator. At least that's what they wrote. > or in this case > > voltage:to

Re: [Tagging] Proposing bazaars

2010-06-07 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/6/7 y...@o2.pl : > I was also thinking about marketplace=street_market rather than > bazaar. But maybe there is a place for both tags, e.g. bazaar IMO > looks like > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Kapali_Carsi-Grand_Bazar-Istanbul-Sep08.jpg, this looks like highway=pedestrian to me (whic

Re: [Tagging] Slag heap

2010-06-07 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/6/7 y...@o2.pl : > Hi, I'm searching for tag for a slag heap (strictly, something that > Germans call Halde): > > http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Salzberg_kaliwerk_wintershall_heringen.jpg > http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Terril_Loos-en-Gohelle_2006-01-14.jpg > http://commons.wi

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - Base transceiver station

2010-06-03 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/6/3 Liz : > On Fri, 4 Jun 2010, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer wrote: >> if you see it in its historical context, it does look much more like a >> tower though: >> http://www.checkpoint-bravo.de/grafik/ausstellung.jpg > > > It isn't a tower, but it functioned as a

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - Base transceiver station

2010-06-03 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/6/3 John Smith : > This thread has gone from communication towers to other towers, in any > case for #1 I'd be hard press to call this a tower, even if it had > elevation due to geographical features, I'd go for command centre or > something similar before I'd ever consider it a tower because

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - Base transceiver station

2010-06-03 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/6/3 John Smith : > #2 is a tower for historical reasons only imho, yes, it might have been higher in the past presuming that the ground level now is higher, and the same as for #1 applies; #1 is just some > shed/building, I wouldn't consider it a tower it isn't substantially > higher than

Re: [Tagging] ID Permanence

2010-06-03 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/6/3 John Smith : > I've penned some initial thoughts on what to do about Object ID Permanence > > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/UUID in tagging you give this example: * building=warehouse * name=The Texas School Book Depository * uuid:building=21d906f1-7a93

Re: [Tagging] Sedimentation tank

2010-06-03 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/6/3 John Smith : > On 3 June 2010 22:59, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer wrote: >> probably I wouldn't tag it as landuse=reservoir. Tag the tanks just as >> sedimentation_tank but use the landuse for the whole area (maybe >> industrial or something more specific for the whol

Re: [Tagging] Sedimentation tank

2010-06-03 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/6/3 M∡rtin Koppenhoefer : > 2010/6/2 y...@o2.pl : >> Hi, >> I'm wondering how to tag sedimentation tank at a sewage treatment. I'm >> thinking about 'landuse=reservoir' + 'man_made=sedimentation_tank'. > > > +1, good suggestion >

Re: [Tagging] Sedimentation tank

2010-06-03 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/6/2 y...@o2.pl : > Hi, > I'm wondering how to tag sedimentation tank at a sewage treatment. I'm > thinking about 'landuse=reservoir' + 'man_made=sedimentation_tank'. +1, good suggestion I don't think it is useful (like suggested from other posters) to tag sedimentation tanks as water storag

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - Base transceiver station

2010-06-03 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/6/2 John Smith : > On 2 June 2010 19:58, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer wrote: >> I don't mind how we differentiate them (1st level or subtags), but > > Sure, there is currently a lack of sub-tags for towers, +1, I will make a proposal for this as soon as there is some time. &g

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - Base transceiver station

2010-06-02 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/6/2 John Smith : > On 2 June 2010 19:26, Liz wrote: >> "John's set" are usually towers - I've seen a fair number of them in my >> travels. > > I'd still consider the mobile phone masts that are about the place are towers. I don't mind how we differentiate them (1st level or subtags), but th

Re: [Tagging] Proposed feature : World wide place=* standardisation only based on population

2010-06-02 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/6/2 Martin Simon : > For example, I've been in a Croatian Island for mapping, er, vacation > last year. The "capital" of this island has half the population of the > village in Germany where I lived in my childhood, but it's a real > town, so simply tag it as place=town, what's the problem?

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - Base transceiver station

2010-06-02 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/6/2 Roy Wallace : > I'm not sure if I should start a new thread for this, but John: > shouldn't the node's role be "tower", not "transponder"? > i.e. the *relation* represents the transponder (hence > type=transponder), but the *node* represents the *tower*, so should > have role=tower. most

Re: [Tagging] Beauty parlour

2010-06-02 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/6/2 John Smith : > On 2 June 2010 17:50, Pieren wrote: >> It is a french word meaning ... 'shop'. >> So, what is suggested is "shop=shop" as a french reader could interpret it. > > Ain't english grand? > > From wikipedia: "A boutique, from the French word for "shop," is a > small shopping out

Re: [Tagging] New Keys?

2010-06-01 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/6/1 Liz : > A large factory may consist of a number of smaller parts, some of which are > workshops. Other areas may be assembly lines / bottling plants / first aid > posts. of course, it might also have its own fire department, police, shops, restaurants, traffic enforcement, railway statio

Re: [Tagging] Proposed feature : World wide place=* standardisation only based on population

2010-06-01 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/6/1 Martin Simon : > 2010/6/1 M∡rtin Koppenhoefer : > >> If you can read German I also suggest this one, which is not >> comparable to the English version: >> http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stadt > > How about this approach? > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cent

Re: [Tagging] Proposed feature : World wide place=* standardisation only based on population

2010-06-01 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/5/28 sly (sylvain letuffe) : > First, I'm aware that full classification of every populated places is not > possible world wide with one tag only, ...The problem I see with actual place > usage is that it is not > standardazided world wide ... IMHO place is a rough estimate where in the loc

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - traffic jam warning

2010-05-31 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/5/31 Pieren : > ...but it's not a reason to accept everything, especially data > changing daily. yes, I totally agree that highly dynamic data like actual traffic jams are not to be put into OSM database, but here the suggestion was to put information about typical locations with frequent tr

Re: [Tagging] religion

2010-05-31 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/5/31 John Smith : > together under a single banner. Buildings/temples and other places of > worship still exist from these religions, like ancient Greek and Roman > temples, pyramids in Egypt and south America, Stone Henge in the UK > and native scared sites in various countries from various p

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - traffic jam warning

2010-05-31 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/5/31 Steve Bennett : > By "permanent" you presumably mean "stable". Nodes and ways have IDs, > so it doesn't seem like a difficult problem to me. if you're talking about static (OSM-)data this is indeed simple, otherwise it requires quite some effort: nodes are deleted, moved, etc., and this

Re: [Tagging] Highway=raceway, leisure=track

2010-05-31 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/5/31 John Smith : > leisure=track is for racing animals like greyhounds/horses, although > the map features page also suggests cycling. Besides cyclists and animals, isn't leisure=track used for tracks for running humans as well (like you can find in a stadium)? http://upload.wikimedia.org/w

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - traffic jam warning

2010-05-31 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/5/31 Steve Bennett : > IMHO, if there is not signage or some sort of official designation to > back it up, this kind of subjective, user-supplied information belongs > somewhere other than the OSM database. > It's certainly valuable, if it is, I believe we should also put it into our data.

Re: [Tagging] religion

2010-05-30 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/5/30 Liz : > If Neopaganism is what is meant, then why wasn't it used? +1 I also think that neopagan is closer to what is probably meant and avoid confusion with the christian point of view of seeing all non-christians as pagans. cheers, Martin

Re: [Tagging] Proposed feature : World wide place=* standardisation only based on population

2010-05-30 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/5/28 sylvain letuffe : >> showed the labels, but we created a list of cities because *those* >> *are* the cities in Italy. > > So every "città" in Italy is tagged place=city ? So you can have a 1 to 1 > città<>city ? > > So all this are tagged place=city : > http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citt%C

Re: [Tagging] Proposed feature : World wide place=* standardisation only based on population

2010-05-30 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/5/29 Roy Wallace : > Please compare this situation to what happened recently with the > meaning of highway=*. Do you think highway=* tags are used to "tag for > the renderer"? In some ways, yes, they are. But more specifically, > highway=* tags are "a very general and sometimes vague descripti

Re: [Tagging] highway=services

2010-05-30 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/5/28 Liz : > would a relation make more sense > to group parking+toilets+bin+fuel+food > in whatever combination was available? site-relation cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinf

Re: [Tagging] Proposed feature : World wide place=* standardisation only based on population

2010-05-28 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/5/28 John Smith : > On 28 May 2010 11:57, Roy Wallace wrote: >> My point is not that we should necessarily even use population=*. My >> point is that this proposal is redundant. There is no reason to use >> place=* to indicate the population. IF you want to indicate the >> population, use pop

Re: [Tagging] What is a marina?

2010-05-28 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/5/28 Steve Bennett : > When tagging an area leisure=marina, do you include: > - just the area on water > - the water and the immediate area around it (ie, slipways, mooring points > etc) > - facilities like boat storage I would include all of these. Probably this is a use case for the site

Re: [Tagging] wine roads in openstreetmap

2010-05-23 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/5/23 John Smith : > On 23 May 2010 08:24, Liz wrote: >> If so, then a relation would be a sensible suggestion >> I think we have used relation for "Tourist Route" in Australia. > > Tourist routes aren't only used for winery tours, maybe there needs to > be a note or some other tag to indicate

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - (Garden specification)

2010-05-22 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/5/19 "Petr Morávek [Xificurk]" : > I see your point... I think the wiki definition of > landuse=recreation_ground is a bit in conflict with common sense (like > the leisure=garden was) and it should be changed. I don't think so. Recreation ground is a term that is refering to sports, even th

Re: [Tagging] Fixed position GPS receivers

2010-05-21 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/5/19 John Smith : >> yes, I guess it helps more to speak German ;-). In German highway=ford >> translates to "Furt" and this is the definition in OSM. Mostly you can >> guess the meaning of tags by typing them into an >> English-German-dictionary and look up the various meanings in German. > >

Re: [Tagging] FW: FW: Parking for businesses..

2010-05-20 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/5/20 Tyler Gunn : > Lol, now just think if we micro-mapped each tree in the parking lot you > could get your GPS to determine the spot that is likely to be in shade for > a large part of the day, keeping your car nice and cool! :)  Ok, too far > perhaps. height and diameter are still missing

Re: [Tagging] FW: Parking for businesses..

2010-05-20 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/5/19 Anthony : > One problem I have with the concept of "access=destination", even beyond the > fact that it says "right of access", is that parking lots quite often aren't > connected to the places they serve.  Something like access=customer is > therefore *more general*.  The parking lot mig

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