Re: [Tagging] Aeroway=Aerodrome Modifier Tags?
2010/6/17 Zeke Farwell ezeki...@gmail.com: On Thu, Jun 17, 2010 at 12:21 AM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: Everything you talked about above is specifically about rendering, not about mapping, in terms of mapping airports you really need to base things on a 1:1 basis If you are making an aviation specific map you may want to render airports on a 1:1 basis to show their worldwide significance. If you are making a general purpose map you may want to show some but not all airports based on relative importance. OSM data should allow for both possible renderings. that's fine. John also cares for importance but thinks that this importance (also relative importance) is based on facts. When mapping these facts you can render all kind of maps, also generic ones. You won't have to evaluate all criteria, you could simply decide that one of them is the most important one and look just at this. cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Aeroway=Aerodrome Modifier Tags?
Le 16/06/2010 07:17, Stephen Hope a écrit : I'm a little bit worried about using admin_level, as it has connotations of control, not just level. It could be misinterpreted as who controls an airfield, rather than how important it is. What you're trying to do here is give a renderer explicit hints on how important something is, and what zoom level it should be on. This concept can be used for many things other than airfields. I'd prefer to see a generic importance tag of some sort (render_level, or render_importance) than can be used in many places, rather than an airfield specific one. You can still have specific rules for deciding how to apply the level, but if we can use the hinting for other things, and renderers can implement it only once, it's more likely to be accepted. Maybe something like Render_hint = 3, hint type=aerodrome if we do need to differentiate between the hint types. I'm a little bit worried about using render_hint ;-) We don't map for renderring. I understant what you meen. We just need to be clearer on the concept. I will try to re-say it. We have to find a way to tag a concept (for airport and other stuff) that is : - based on objective data and (lenght and number of runways, trafic...) - based on surrounding (is it the only place...) We need to say a geographical importance of something, that should be a hint for renderers, but also that should be handfull for routing, for nominatim... A similar discussion went on renderring fuel stations. In a big city, we can get a lot of station. But between Alger and Niamey it is interresting to see them at lower zoom. If the tag suggest 'rendering' someone would tag 'my bakery' at render_hint=1 for probably very good reasons (the best organic authentic bred since 1850) If the tag suggest 'geographical importance', maybe we will avoid misuses. As other said, we are able to do this for highways... -- FrViPofm ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Aeroway=Aerodrome Modifier Tags?
2010/6/16 John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com: The problem with using subjective tagging is you can't easily quantify it, where as things like air traffic is objective. But what you can do is compare it to the surrounding / context / nationwide / worldwide. It's like the highway key for tertiary, secondary, primary. Maybe you can't tell initially but with more progress of the map it becomes almost obvious, which level a street is to put in. For airports there are other criteria (like international airport meaning that scheduled international flights exist (and not simply that you can take your cessna, lift off and fly to another country). Of course the fact whether there is a paved runway, how long it is (can big airplanes take off?) etc. are also to be concerned. Which of these criteria are to be applied in which context / decision will turn out when you start mapping it. Beeing a crowdsourced map I guess that subjective judgement will arrive at a similar result than objective criteria. cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Aeroway=Aerodrome Modifier Tags?
On 17 June 2010 02:12, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: But what you can do is compare it to the surrounding / context / nationwide / worldwide. It's like the highway key for tertiary, In terms of airports, you really can only compare them on a world wide basis, it doesn't matter where a small airport is, it will never have the same level of importance as a major international hub like LAX. secondary, primary. Maybe you can't tell initially but with more progress of the map it becomes almost obvious, which level a street is That doesn't make things less subjective, roads are generally judged based on similar basis are airports, eg traffic flow, the amount of lanes/runways, is the road/runway paved, major airports nearby etc. While highway judgments may be deemed slightly subjective there would be ways to quantify things objectively as well, but humans tend to do this without breaking things down, ie show all working out. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Aeroway=Aerodrome Modifier Tags?
John Smith wrote: On 15 June 2010 13:33, Zeke Farwell ezeki...@gmail.com wrote: Steve, I like this as a possible solution as well. Perhaps the admin_level tag could be used? Same as for boundaries. The challenges in my eyes are not making the tagging scheme overly complicated, and making if verifiable based on physical characteristics. In my opinion OSM only needs three levels max, and maybe two would do it. so to avoid naming confusion you could do... aerodrome=major aerodrome=minor aerodrome=small These are adjectives therefore subjective; How small is your small compared to my small. Is it bigger than my small? etc,etc. Also to me small doesn't fit too well with major/minor. The reason I mentioned the official classifications is that they would be verifiable. Cheers Dave F. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Aeroway=Aerodrome Modifier Tags?
On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 12:20 PM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.comwrote: In terms of airports, you really can only compare them on a world wide basis, it doesn't matter where a small airport is, it will never have the same level of importance as a major international hub like LAX. I disagree a bit here. You can choose to compare airports on a world wide basis (may be useful for an aviation specific map), or you can choose to compare them based on relative, regional importance (more useful for a general purpose map). If a country only has one small airport it's not going to have the worldwide importance of LAX, but that small airport is certainly just as important to the residents of that small country as LAX is to a resident of Los Angeles. Relative importance makes sense, because feature density varies from place to place. Zeke ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Aeroway=Aerodrome Modifier Tags?
On 17 June 2010 14:10, Zeke Farwell ezeki...@gmail.com wrote: I disagree a bit here. You can choose to compare airports on a world wide basis (may be useful for an aviation specific map), or you can choose to compare them based on relative, regional importance (more useful for a general purpose map). If a country only has one small airport it's not going to have the worldwide importance of LAX, but that small airport is certainly just as important to the residents of that small country as LAX is to a resident of Los Angeles. Relative importance makes sense, because feature density varies from place to place. Everything you talked about above is specifically about rendering, not about mapping, in terms of mapping airports you really need to base things on a 1:1 basis, rather than start thinking about pre-processing before rendering, maybe it's the same thing, but it would reduce the usefulness of information on airport specific mapping imho. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Aeroway=Aerodrome Modifier Tags?
On Thu, Jun 17, 2010 at 12:21 AM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.comwrote: Everything you talked about above is specifically about rendering, not about mapping, in terms of mapping airports you really need to base things on a 1:1 basis, rather than start thinking about pre-processing before rendering, maybe it's the same thing, but it would reduce the usefulness of information on airport specific mapping imho. Well without rendering there is no map, just a database. If you are making an aviation specific map you may want to render airports on a 1:1 basis to show their worldwide significance. If you are making a general purpose map you may want to show some but not all airports based on relative importance. OSM data should allow for both possible renderings. There's too much data in the OSM database for general purpose maps to show all of a given feature at low zoom levels, but showing the most import is desirable. What's most important in one area may be very different from what's important in another area. That's all I'm saying. Zeke ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Aeroway=Aerodrome Modifier Tags?
On 17 June 2010 14:40, Zeke Farwell ezeki...@gmail.com wrote: at low zoom levels, but showing the most import is desirable. What's most important in one area may be very different from what's important in another area. That's all I'm saying. I know what you are saying, but this is outstanding on a lot of things, as a result people tend to fudge things for the general rendering than actual, when it really should be dealt with as a pre-processing issue. eg airport density could be calculated and values going into a database could be altered as a result ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Aeroway=Aerodrome Modifier Tags?
On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 1:49 PM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: On 15 June 2010 13:33, Zeke Farwell ezeki...@gmail.com wrote: Steve, I like this as a possible solution as well. Perhaps the admin_level tag could be used? Same as for boundaries. The challenges in my eyes are not making the tagging scheme overly complicated, and making if verifiable based on physical characteristics. In my opinion OSM only needs three levels max, and maybe two would do it. so to avoid naming confusion you could do... aerodrome=major aerodrome=minor aerodrome=small I can't see any benefit in using words to describe what is essentially a numeric scale. Again, issues with connotation: What do you mean, X isn't 'major' - it's different to, What do you mean, X isn't 4 out of 5? Having to re-define ordinary English words sucks. While 3 levels might be enough currently, it might also be better to leave room for more levels. Perhaps make it a scale out of 10, with only numbers 3, 5 and 7 used at the moment. Btw don't forget that on certain render styles, the levels at which stuff appear will be totally different: public transport maps, air traffic maps, military maps... Steve ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Aeroway=Aerodrome Modifier Tags?
On 15 June 2010 16:05, Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com wrote: While 3 levels might be enough currently, it might also be better to leave room for more levels. Perhaps make it a scale out of 10, with only numbers 3, 5 and 7 used at the moment. Numbers can be just as bad, what does 10 mean? is 1 the highest or lowest? If it were possible to find out air traffic levels this might be a good way to quantify things, eg LAX and other major major airports get a lot of traffic, yet other airports deemed such and such international airport is like towns calling themselves the city of such and such... ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Aeroway=Aerodrome Modifier Tags?
On Tue, 15 Jun 2010, Liz wrote: On Tue, 15 Jun 2010, John Smith wrote: I think we would be better classifying things based on approximate air traffic per day, the number of run ways, and so no, alternatively we could just tag these things individually: air_traffic=1000 runways=10 as i recall, Cloncurry actually has 7 runways, a legacy of being a major WW2 base. not sure how i obtain figures on air traffic movements I forgot that this list isn't the au list so Cloncurry is a small place with about 3000 people at most ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Aeroway=Aerodrome Modifier Tags?
On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 4:31 PM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: Numbers can be just as bad, what does 10 mean? is 1 the highest or lowest? Whatever it says in the wiki. See the difference? The more arbitrary the labelling system, the less likely people are to misuse their own intuition. (Ideally, it wouldn't just be in the wiki - there would be a stock definition that all editors would show the user at appropriate times). If it were possible to find out air traffic levels this might be a good way to quantify things, eg LAX and other major major airports get a lot of traffic, yet other airports deemed such and such international airport is like towns calling themselves the city of such and such... Yep, that might be a useful way of deciding which classification an airport falls into - I don't like the idea of tagging aerodrome:traffic=18530 though. Steve ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Aeroway=Aerodrome Modifier Tags?
2010/6/15 Zeke Farwell ezeki...@gmail.com: Well aeroway=helipad is documented on the wiki. Doesn't render currently though. It does render in t...@h, mapnik doesn't show it. What about creating a site-relation for airports, where the runways are entered and the application can then decide how important and airport might be by judging the surface size of the runways, their surface (paved or not), the amount of runways, the overall size of buildings part of the airport, ... cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Aeroway=Aerodrome Modifier Tags?
On 15 June 2010 18:26, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: What about creating a site-relation for airports, where the runways Speaking of runways, what's the correct way to tag the runway designations? ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Aeroway=Aerodrome Modifier Tags?
Martins example that the Faroe Islands have 1 small airport/aerodrome with 1 short runway (1250m) with few small buildings in the whole country shows that just because an airport is small doesn't mean it isn't important. Compare the number of airports rendered at Mapnik zoom 10 in the greater Chicago areahttp://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=42.032lon=-88.238zoom=10layers=B000FTF to the number of airports at the same zoom when looking at the Faroe Islandshttp://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=62.159lon=-6.902zoom=10layers=B000FTF both at zoom 10. In my opinion the Faroe Islands map is very user friendly, showing the one airport in the area. The Chicago map on the other hand is very cluttered with more airports than I can count, and two most important ones (Midway O'Hare) are drowned out by all the others. Ideally I would say that the Vagar Airport in Farhoe should render with the same prominence as Midway and O'Hare in Chicago. O'Hare is much, much bigger but Vagar is the only airport in the entire country. To a person looking at a map of each area, they should have the same importance -- they are each the biggest airport in their respective areas. Many of the other airports in the Chicago area may be of a similar size to Vagar Airport, but they should render with much less prominence since there are much bigger, more important airports near by. This is similar to the concept that the definition of highway=primary can vary greatly depending on the area of the world you are looking at. I'm not sure how we can use things like runway length, size of airport polygon, or annual air traffic to calculate this kind of relative importance. In my opinion it really requires the input of a local mapper. Thoughts? Zeke On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 12:07 AM, Martin Fossdal Guttesen mgutte...@hotmail.com wrote: What about this example 62.06, -7.27 (sorry cant get the link, openstreetmap.org is down) it is in Faroe Islands, we only have 1 small airport/aerodrome with 1 short runway (1250m) with few small buildings in the hole country *From:* Zeke Farwell ezeki...@gmail.com *Sent:* Tuesday, June 15, 2010 4:33 AM *To:* Tag discussion, strategy and related toolstagging@openstreetmap.org; talk-us talk...@openstreetmap.org *Subject:* Re: [Tagging] Aeroway=Aerodrome Modifier Tags? Steve, I like this as a possible solution as well. Perhaps the admin_level tag could be used? Same as for boundaries. The challenges in my eyes are not making the tagging scheme overly complicated, and making if verifiable based on physical characteristics. In my opinion OSM only needs three levels max, and maybe two would do it. - One would encompass all commercial passenger airports from small to gigantic. Generally even smaller airports are fairly well spaced out, except in very large metropolitan areas where there may be more than one (Chicago has O'Hare and Midway), so these could be rendered at a high zoom level. - Another level would encompass minor aerodromes and airfields that don't serve commercial passenger flights but are more than a simple landing strip. They have some buildings and are still sizeable. These could probably be rendered at one or two levels lower. - A third level would be only for the most basic aerodromes. Basic runways or landing strips with only very small buildings if any. These would only be of local interest and should be rendered at a relatively low zoom only. We could certainly call these levels 1, 2, and 3 instead of Airport, Airfield, and Landing Strip. I'm just sick of seeing lots of extremely minor landing strips rendered at the same importance as O'Hare International Airport at zoom 15 on the map. Do you think more than three levels are needed? Maybe just two: Large and Small. Zeke On Mon, Jun 14, 2010 at 10:56 PM, Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.comwrote: IMHO, if the only distinction between them is size/importance/hierarchy, then it just creates pain and confusion to create all these extra words, particularly for non-english speakers. Why not: aeroway=aerodrome importance=1 importance=2 etc. Make 5 intercontinental airports and 1 tiny amateur airfields. This also avoids the problem when Podunck Airfield is actually an international airport (yet aerodrome=airfield seems more intuitive), and removes a whole bunch of subjective issues to do with the connotations of each name. Steve ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging -- ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Aeroway=Aerodrome Modifier Tags?
On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 10:48 PM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.comwrote: Welcome to the wonderful world of cartography, it's as much of an art as anything else… I quite agree. Creating a database that can be used to render a cartographically pleasing map of any area of the world is a tall order :-D ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Aeroway=Aerodrome Modifier Tags?
On 16 June 2010 14:05, Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com wrote: Absolutely. I think it's important to have clear definitions like importance 3 is given to airports with X runways *within* geographic regions (countries?), but not *across* them. This can be managed effectively through wiki pages for each country, describing the local rules, like http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Australian_Tagging_Guidelines Actually this would be a better list to base things on: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:boundary%3Dadministrative#10_admin_level_values_for_specific_countries ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Aeroway=Aerodrome Modifier Tags?
Does anyone see a problem with simply using the same admin_level tag currently in use with boundary=administrative, in combination with aeroway=aerodrome? A new aerodrome_importance tag could be created, but admin_level is already in use so why not make it multi-purpose. All we'd have to do is come up with the appropriate zoom levels for each admin_level, request that this combination be added to the Mapnik stylesheet, and then we'd need a chart on the wiki similar to the admin_level chart for boundaries to be filled in by mappers in each country. Seems reasonable to me…. Zeke On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 12:19 AM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.comwrote: On 16 June 2010 14:05, Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com wrote: Absolutely. I think it's important to have clear definitions like importance 3 is given to airports with X runways *within* geographic regions (countries?), but not *across* them. This can be managed effectively through wiki pages for each country, describing the local rules, like http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Australian_Tagging_Guidelines Actually this would be a better list to base things on: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:boundary%3Dadministrative#10_admin_level_values_for_specific_countries ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Aeroway=Aerodrome Modifier Tags?
I'm a little bit worried about using admin_level, as it has connotations of control, not just level. It could be misinterpreted as who controls an airfield, rather than how important it is. What you're trying to do here is give a renderer explicit hints on how important something is, and what zoom level it should be on. This concept can be used for many things other than airfields. I'd prefer to see a generic importance tag of some sort (render_level, or render_importance) than can be used in many places, rather than an airfield specific one. You can still have specific rules for deciding how to apply the level, but if we can use the hinting for other things, and renderers can implement it only once, it's more likely to be accepted. Maybe something like Render_hint = 3, hint type=aerodrome if we do need to differentiate between the hint types. I think this concept is important. People can come up with all sorts of algorithms for ranking things according to all sorts of rules, and none of them will work on every occasion. We need some explicit method of hinting to a renderer that a certain object is more or less important than it might otherwise appear. Or that this one of the six or seven nearly identical objects in a certain area is the one that should be rendered if you don't have room to label them all. The renderer can always ignore the hint if it likes. This kind of prioritisation is exactly the sort of thing that people can do really well, and machines suck at. Stephen On 16 June 2010 14:52, Zeke Farwell ezeki...@gmail.com wrote: Does anyone see a problem with simply using the same admin_level tag currently in use with boundary=administrative, in combination with aeroway=aerodrome? A new aerodrome_importance tag could be created, but admin_level is already in use so why not make it multi-purpose. All we'd have to do is come up with the appropriate zoom levels for each admin_level, request that this combination be added to the Mapnik stylesheet, and then we'd need a chart on the wiki similar to the admin_level chart for boundaries to be filled in by mappers in each country. Seems reasonable to me…. Zeke ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Aeroway=Aerodrome Modifier Tags?
I'm no expert but wouldn't there be some official definition between sizes? This is what I found on a quick search: http://www.answers.com/topic/airport-classification Cheers Dave F. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Aeroway=Aerodrome Modifier Tags?
On Sun, Jun 13, 2010 at 6:47 AM, Zeke Farwell ezeki...@gmail.com wrote: Hi everyone, You may or may not know that currently in OSM there is only one [rendered] tag to describe the many different types of places where planes can take off and land (aeroway=aerodrome). I'm trying to figure out how we can tag tiny airstrips and gigantic international airports differently so that renders can decide to show important aerodromes at high zoom levels and tiny, unimportant ones only at low zoom levels. Here are some tag ideas I'm toying with. These would all be modifiers for aeroway=aerodrome: aerodrome=airport (large aerodrome. many buildings. commercial flights. international flights) aerodrome=airfield (smaller aerodrome. few buildings) aerodrome=airstrip (tiny aerodrome. basically just a runway, often just a grass one) IMHO, if the only distinction between them is size/importance/hierarchy, then it just creates pain and confusion to create all these extra words, particularly for non-english speakers. Why not: aeroway=aerodrome importance=1 importance=2 etc. Make 5 intercontinental airports and 1 tiny amateur airfields. This also avoids the problem when Podunck Airfield is actually an international airport (yet aerodrome=airfield seems more intuitive), and removes a whole bunch of subjective issues to do with the connotations of each name. Steve ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Aeroway=Aerodrome Modifier Tags?
On 15 June 2010 13:02, Zeke Farwell ezeki...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks for the link, Dave. I've though about similar classification schemes to what's listed there. Something like this in decreasing importance: aerodrome = international aerodrome = regional aerodrome = local The problem I see with this terminology is that it's more subjective, and it's harder to define based on physical characteristics. A very small airfield may in fact classified as an international airport because it receives the occasional international flight. This doesn't mean it has the same level of importance as Heathrow in london or JFK in the US. Exactly, tagging things as international doesn't help. I think we would be better classifying things based on approximate air traffic per day, the number of run ways, and so no, alternatively we could just tag these things individually: air_traffic=1000 runways=10 ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Aeroway=Aerodrome Modifier Tags?
Steve, I like this as a possible solution as well. Perhaps the admin_level tag could be used? Same as for boundaries. The challenges in my eyes are not making the tagging scheme overly complicated, and making if verifiable based on physical characteristics. In my opinion OSM only needs three levels max, and maybe two would do it. - One would encompass all commercial passenger airports from small to gigantic. Generally even smaller airports are fairly well spaced out, except in very large metropolitan areas where there may be more than one (Chicago has O'Hare and Midway), so these could be rendered at a high zoom level. - Another level would encompass minor aerodromes and airfields that don't serve commercial passenger flights but are more than a simple landing strip. They have some buildings and are still sizeable. These could probably be rendered at one or two levels lower. - A third level would be only for the most basic aerodromes. Basic runways or landing strips with only very small buildings if any. These would only be of local interest and should be rendered at a relatively low zoom only. We could certainly call these levels 1, 2, and 3 instead of Airport, Airfield, and Landing Strip. I'm just sick of seeing lots of extremely minor landing strips rendered at the same importance as O'Hare International Airport at zoom 15 on the map. Do you think more than three levels are needed? Maybe just two: Large and Small. Zeke On Mon, Jun 14, 2010 at 10:56 PM, Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com wrote: IMHO, if the only distinction between them is size/importance/hierarchy, then it just creates pain and confusion to create all these extra words, particularly for non-english speakers. Why not: aeroway=aerodrome importance=1 importance=2 etc. Make 5 intercontinental airports and 1 tiny amateur airfields. This also avoids the problem when Podunck Airfield is actually an international airport (yet aerodrome=airfield seems more intuitive), and removes a whole bunch of subjective issues to do with the connotations of each name. Steve ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Aeroway=Aerodrome Modifier Tags?
Also, how would you tag facilities that have one or more helipads (landing pads for helicopters), but no runways for fixed-wing aircraft? -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria -Original Message- From: Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2010 12:56:27 To: Tag discussion, strategy and related toolstagging@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [Tagging] Aeroway=Aerodrome Modifier Tags? On Sun, Jun 13, 2010 at 6:47 AM, Zeke Farwell ezeki...@gmail.com wrote: Hi everyone, You may or may not know that currently in OSM there is only one [rendered] tag to describe the many different types of places where planes can take off and land (aeroway=aerodrome). I'm trying to figure out how we can tag tiny airstrips and gigantic international airports differently so that renders can decide to show important aerodromes at high zoom levels and tiny, unimportant ones only at low zoom levels. Here are some tag ideas I'm toying with. These would all be modifiers for aeroway=aerodrome: aerodrome=airport (large aerodrome. many buildings. commercial flights. international flights) aerodrome=airfield (smaller aerodrome. few buildings) aerodrome=airstrip (tiny aerodrome. basically just a runway, often just a grass one) IMHO, if the only distinction between them is size/importance/hierarchy, then it just creates pain and confusion to create all these extra words, particularly for non-english speakers. Why not: aeroway=aerodrome importance=1 importance=2 etc. Make 5 intercontinental airports and 1 tiny amateur airfields. This also avoids the problem when Podunck Airfield is actually an international airport (yet aerodrome=airfield seems more intuitive), and removes a whole bunch of subjective issues to do with the connotations of each name. Steve ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Aeroway=Aerodrome Modifier Tags?
On 15 June 2010 13:40, John F. Eldredge j...@jfeldredge.com wrote: Also, how would you tag facilities that have one or more helipads (landing pads for helicopters), but no runways for fixed-wing aircraft? aerodrome=heliport? ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
[Tagging] Aeroway=Aerodrome Modifier Tags?
Hi everyone, You may or may not know that currently in OSM there is only one [rendered] tag to describe the many different types of places where planes can take off and land (aeroway=aerodrome). I'm trying to figure out how we can tag tiny airstrips and gigantic international airports differently so that renders can decide to show important aerodromes at high zoom levels and tiny, unimportant ones only at low zoom levels. Here are some tag ideas I'm toying with. These would all be modifiers for aeroway=aerodrome: aerodrome=airport(large aerodrome. many buildings. commercial flights. international flights) aerodrome=airfield(smaller aerodrome. few buildings) aerodrome=airstrip(tiny aerodrome. basically just a runway, often just a grass one) aerodrome=water (a place where seaplanes take off and land in the water. same rendering importance as airstrip) Please have a look at the Airports:Talk pagehttp://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Airports#What_about_small_airstrips_that_shouldn.27t_be_given_the_same_prominence_on_the_map_as_major_airports.3Fon the wiki if you are interested in this subject. I've also posted this there. Zeke Burlington, VT, USA ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
