Re: [Tagging] [OSM-talk] Google has dual carriage way where it's not built yet

2009-10-11 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
2009/10/10 OJ W ojwli...@googlemail.com: multiple plans would overlap each other and look weird? look weird where? I guess these would not be rendered in standard maps (or just in advanced planning phases and for main plans like motorways, airports, etc.). I made a proposal:

Re: [Tagging] Housenumber interpolation with regularlyskippednumbers

2009-10-13 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
actually I think that instead of discussing interpolation with regularlyskipped numbers you could map explicitly the nodes of the real numbers, thus getting a high-precision map instead of this interpolation-crab, that is much less useful then an actual accurate position ;-) just my 2 cents.

Re: [Tagging] tagging the multipolygon model (was landuse and military)

2009-10-15 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
2009/10/14 sly (sylvain letuffe) li...@letuffe.org: In the holes continuity, it as been proposed that an area representing something inside another area would still be part of a multipolygon relation but with it's own tags. no, this is not the case. Multipolygon says: the inner part is NOT

Re: [Tagging] tagging the multipolygon model (was landuse and military)

2009-10-16 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
2009/10/15 sly (sylvain letuffe) li...@letuffe.org: On jeudi 15 octobre 2009, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: For the lake in the forest: do you agree that someone would say: the lake (pond) is in the forest? Like a way in the forest, which doesn't have trees growing on it, but still

Re: [Tagging] The current problem with tagging

2009-10-19 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
2009/10/19 John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com: 2009/10/19 Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com: 1. mapfeatures Only covers a very limited subset of tags. the most used ones. 2. wiki-search Due to the wiki being used for everything this is very ineffective at times, do a search

Re: [Tagging] [OSM-talk] [tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - (man_made=mineshaft)

2009-10-27 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
2009/10/24 Lesi l...@lesi.is-a-geek.net: - In the forum somebody has suggested to add a tag for the name of the mine the mineshaft belongs to. At first I thought this would be the same as operator, but actually it is not. So which tag would be appropriate? mine=...? to associate the

Re: [Tagging] Highway property proposal covered=yes

2009-10-30 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
2009/10/30 Pieren pier...@gmail.com On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 11:02 PM, Randy rwtnospam-new...@yahoo.com wrote: Possibly just building=roof would work (not my idea, someone else suggested it). I have a much bigger preference to building=roof or building=cover on the element on the top

Re: [Tagging] [OSM-dev] Proposition: Toll amount - roads, tunells, ferry routes, bridges, etc...

2009-11-01 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
2009/10/31 Marjan Vrban mvr...@gmail.com I have an idea, but i'm no programmer :-) How about implemeting toll amount into ways that require payment, so routing engines could calculate toll cost for some route. It would be in local currency and convertable to other (e.g. 100HRK=13,83 EUR).

Re: [Tagging] Are tunnels only below ground? (Was

2009-11-04 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
2009/11/4 Richard Bullock rb...@cantab.net We don't *have* to stick to dictionary definitions here when tagging, as long as the meaning is clear; exactly, this is not generally about dictionary definitions but about the meaning of words. Dictionaries can give you hints if you're unsure. If

Re: [Tagging] Are tunnels only below ground? (Was

2009-11-04 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
2009/11/4 Peter Childs pchi...@bcs.org Its a Way under a building where the building is either on legs or exists above and on both sides on the way. The way not blocked by a door (to enter the building). However other barrier (eg Staggered Fence or Gate) may exist to limit access to the way.

Re: [Tagging] shared driveways (was How to tag un-named roundabout?)

2009-11-24 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
2009/11/21 Richard Mann richard.mann.westoxf...@googlemail.com You maybe ain't going to like this, but the usual distinction in the UK is that residentials are (typically) 6m+ wide and have pavements/sidewalks, whereas service is for urban roads which don't have pavements/sidewalks. Richrd

Re: [Tagging] Implied oneway tag for highway=*_link, wiki edits

2009-11-27 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
2009/11/27 Pieren pier...@gmail.com no, IMHO we shouldn't generally imply but tag explicitly, otherwise consistency is at risk. no, if we don't have defaults, we will have to populate 20, 30 or 50 attributs on each highway in the future. come on, I wonder where those 50 attributes should

Re: [Tagging] Implied oneway tag for highway=*_link, wiki edits

2009-11-27 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
2009/11/27 Jonathan Bennett openstreet...@jonno.cix.co.uk Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: no, IMHO we shouldn't generally imply but tag explicitly, otherwise consistency is at risk. If the tags implied by another tag were documented in a standard form, in a central place (so any application

Re: [Tagging] Implied oneway tag for highway=*_link, wiki edits

2009-11-28 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
2009/11/28 Jonathan Bennett openstreet...@jonno.cix.co.uk My point was about newcomers to the project, who haven't sat in on endless tedious tagging discussions (and may have no wish to do so) assuming that because every instance of a type of road they know is one way that it's an inherent

Re: [Tagging] [OSM-talk] connection between 2 islands

2009-11-30 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
2009/11/30 Martin Fossdal Guttesen mgutte...@hotmail.com how do i tag/draw a connection between 2 islands, it is not a bridge as i understand a bridge take a look at the pictures on this page if you dont know what i mean http://landsverk.fo/default.asp?sida=718bolkaid=6projectid=299 yes,

Re: [Tagging] How to tag Plaza / Courtyard

2009-11-30 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
2009/11/30 Mike N. nice...@att.net I keep running into small uncovered areas by one or more building walls that may have flowers / grass / or small bushes , but can be all brick / stone. We refer to them as plaza or courtyard here, and many of them are named. I can't find a tag that fits

Re: [Tagging] [OSM-talk] connection between 2 islands

2009-11-30 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
2009/11/30 Martin Fossdal Guttesen mgutte...@hotmail.com if you look at the description of embankment on the map features page An embankment is an artificial bank raised above the immediately-surrounding land to redirect or prevent flooding by a river, lake or sea then i don't think it

Re: [Tagging] [OSM-talk] How to tag properties

2009-11-30 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
2009/11/30 Ed Avis e...@waniasset.com A house would be building=yes or perhaps building=house. But for a block or a larger area, yes, tagging the landuse is fine. I'd suggest to tag detached house differently from terraced houses and other typologies, e.g. building=detached (currently 1425

Re: [Tagging] [OSM-talk] connection between 2 islands

2009-11-30 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
2009/11/30 Cartinus carti...@xs4all.nl On Monday 30 November 2009 22:09:10 Martin Fossdal Guttesen wrote: I would agree that it is more like a Causeway jugding from the wikipedia article and images, but i cant find any tag for that, and i dont think it would render on the map so what?

Re: [Tagging] [OSM-talk] Path vs footway vs cycleway vs...

2009-11-30 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
2009/12/1 Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com I've referred to Jurisdictions a few times for this reason. I imagine US states are possibly even more individual. Would we go as far as councils/municipalities? Probably not. (Although, as I mentioned somewhere earlier, the City of Melbourne

Re: [Tagging] Non-parking car lots

2009-12-03 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
2009/12/3 Simone Saviolo simone.savi...@gmail.com Wouldn't those be simply commercial or industrial areas? I think there's no need to record what kind of product is stocked there, and cars (in that case) are just another kind of product. Yes, they would be an industrial area (not

Re: [Tagging] Adding housnumber the lazy way.

2009-12-21 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
2009/12/21 Erik Johansson erjo...@gmail.com Hi I've slowly started using addr:housenumbers, I'm not really interested in doing it according to the way the addr:* scheme work atm though.. Because of the amount of work to enter data in that scheme. are you aware of JOSM-Presets and

Re: [Tagging] Adding housnumber the lazy way.

2009-12-21 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
2009/12/21 Erik Johansson erjo...@gmail.com On Mon, Dec 21, 2009 at 4:25 PM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: Then why don't you use place=locality, name=45-29 if that's all you want. Thanks, that's a good idea (if it works), what do you mean by: if it works? All alternative ways

Re: [Tagging] Adding housnumber the lazy way.

2009-12-21 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
2009/12/21 Erik Johansson erjo...@gmail.com But it is retrieved in the only way I care about namely the rendered map. It could be retrieved by geocoders as well, with small changes, it was this change I wanted help with. Note, place=locality seems even better after what you said, or do you

Re: [Tagging] Should 'highway=incline[_steep]' be discouraged?

2009-12-28 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
2009/12/28 Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org Unless there are exactly two, of which one ends and the other begins at the node. In Germany, less than 2% of highway=incline nodes are used in an ambiguous fashion (i.e. more than 2 ways, or 2 ways of which one is not beginning/ending at that

Re: [Tagging] Proposed definition for cycleways (was Re: bicycle=no)

2010-01-04 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
2010/1/4 Liz ed...@billiau.net I don't see a mountain bike track as equivalent to a cycleway. I would specifically exclude a MTB track from cycleway +1, still I agree with most of the comments above that the proposed change of the definition would not improve the situation. cheers, Martin

Re: [Tagging] Proposed definition for cycleways (was Re: bicycle=no)

2010-01-05 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
2010/1/5 Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com Right, I'm not confusing the terms. Some people have used the word designed in definitions, as in designed for bicycles. That's all. btw: is there a difference between dedicated and designated? Legally. Although general practice (I believe) is that

Re: [Tagging] Proposed definition for cycleways

2010-01-05 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
2010/1/5 Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com Well, I*M*HO, it's close to perfect. If you (well, a reasonable person with some common sense when it comes to bike paths - not something Roy would admit to :)) looked through a map, and every time you saw something mapped as a bike path, it

Re: [Tagging] Proposed definition for cycleways

2010-01-05 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
2010/1/6 Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 11:13 PM, Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: maybe you missed NOP's contribution in one of the parallel threads, so again: your point of view is bike-focused, so you think every way or path suitable

Re: [Tagging] Love Hotel

2010-01-06 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
2010/1/7 Arlindo Pereira openstreet...@arlindopereira.com 1: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Love_Hotel I like your request and I think this is useful in Brazil. Did you mean you wanted to start voting? cheers, Martin ___

Re: [Tagging] Proposed definition for cycleways (was Re: bicycle=no)

2010-01-08 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
2010/1/8 Richard Mann richard.mann.westoxf...@googlemail.com So the 22,000 highway=cycleway in the UK all need to be changed. Unfortunately, UK mappers don't seem to agree with this. well, I'm pretty sure if you'd start today you would have changed them within some weeks, but still mainly

Re: [Tagging] What's a power=station?

2010-01-19 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
2010/1/19 Liz ed...@billiau.net currently the general scheme would be to design a new set of tagging which does not reuse the same tags and deprecate the tags which are decided to be in error so that over time the happy editors can retag features with new ones from better set +1 cheers,

Re: [Tagging] Dutch cafes (was: What's a power=station?)

2010-01-20 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
2010/1/20 Peter Childs pchi...@bcs.org In my book its easy. Cafe - Place to buy and consume light snacks and NON-Alcoholic Drinks (Tea, Coffee, Coke etc) on site. Usually Unlicensed. in many countries you will find alcohol in cafés as well. In a café I would before all expect a

Re: [Tagging] Dutch cafes (was: What's a power=station?)

2010-01-20 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
2010/1/20 David Earl da...@frankieandshadow.com I still think the most important criterion is what the owner of the establishment says it is, not on the subjective judgement of the surveyor. +1, might work well in English-speaking countries (and where it applies, sometimes establishments

Re: [Tagging] What's a power=station?

2010-01-20 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
2010/1/20 Anthony o...@inbox.org On Wed, Jan 20, 2010 at 10:18 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: 2010/1/20 Anthony o...@inbox.org On Wed, Jan 20, 2010 at 9:55 AM, Peteris Krisjanis pec...@gmail.comwrote: We map everything we can. What in the world is that supposed

Re: [Tagging] Dutch cafes (was: What's a power=station?)

2010-01-20 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
2010/1/20 Peter Childs pchi...@bcs.org In my book its easy. Cafe Usually Unlicensed. Definitely I would not put licenses and other legal stuff into the definition. They differ almost certainly in different countries, are of no importance to the client and hard to research. They might

Re: [Tagging] Dutch cafes (was: What's a power=station?)

2010-01-20 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
2010/1/21 Roy Wallace waldo000...@gmail.com On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 9:17 AM, Erik Johansson erjo...@gmail.com wrote: ... To meet both problems you can only do this: alcohol=yes coffee=no pastries=yes egg chips=yes I like this approach. yes, it's OK, just it doesn't tell you

Re: [Tagging] Dutch cafes

2010-01-20 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
2010/1/21 Alan Mintz alan_mintz+...@earthlink.netalan_mintz%2b...@earthlink.net - cannabis=yes (bringing it back around to the subject of the thread :) ) if that's the question I would tag it amenity=coffeeshop and not amenity=cafe, cannabis=yes. IMHO the difference between a cafe and a

Re: [Tagging] DE: telephone and 'Standortnummer' and the tag 'phone'

2010-01-29 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
2010/1/29 Jonas Stein n...@jonasstein.de: in Germany most public telephones belong to the 'Deutsche Telekom'. They have usually a label with a field 'Standortnummer 2211234' I was told until year 2003 you could call +49 for the country +Standortnummer without the '0's and the phone was

Re: [Tagging] Islands in Parking Lots

2010-01-30 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
2010/1/30 Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com: Sounds like the right solution is a generalised highway=traffic_island or something. Can't see that a carpark island is any different from any other traffic island or raised section of kerb. -1, please don't use the highway-tag for barriers.

Re: [Tagging] Race track

2010-02-01 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
2010/1/31 Roy Wallace waldo000...@gmail.com: On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 3:13 AM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: ... Obviously if someone wants to spend a lot of time areas would be more accurate, but in that case it might as well be left as a raster image. No, because with a raster

Re: [Tagging] ref tags and reference routes

2010-02-03 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
2010/2/3 Richard Welty rwe...@averillpark.net: by way of context, New York State and some NY counties have cases where there are roads maintained by the state or county that do not have numberedsigned route designations. these roads have numbers assigned administratively (reference routes)

Re: [Tagging] [OSM-talk] Proposed feature: Gated Communities

2010-02-03 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
2010/2/3 Chango640 chango...@gmail.com: Hi people. I'm sending this mail in order to propose a new feature for the tag landuse: gated communities. These are a type of private neighbourhoods that are very common in Argentina, Brazil and many other countries, and have a notorious difference

Re: [Tagging] [OSM-talk] Proposed feature: Gated Communities

2010-02-03 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
2010/2/3 Chango640 chango...@gmail.com: I thought about using landuse=residential (which I'm already using in cities and towns), but here in Argentina there is a strong difference between ordinary neighbourhoods and gated communities. Yes, that's what you are expressing with the subtags

Re: [Tagging] [OSM-talk] Proposed feature: Gated Communities

2010-02-03 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
2010/2/3 John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com: On 4 February 2010 08:50, Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: AFAIR the barrier=fence should not be applied to an area, what means in pratical to draw a second way atop the area limits (not really elegant). Another approach is to tag

Re: [Tagging] adjacent buildings

2010-02-07 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
2010/2/8 Roy Wallace waldo000...@gmail.com: On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 9:44 AM, Eugene Alvin Villar sea...@gmail.com wrote: Are these buildings conceptually separate (e.g., different building management or construction dates)? If yes, map as separate areas sharing boundaries. I don't know -

Re: [Tagging] opening hours

2010-02-21 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
2010/2/21 John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com: Also can anyone think of any other cases that opening_hours can't describe at the moment? there is various possibilities: - the last Sunday in the month - the first / last / third... wednesday of one specific month - one hour after sunset - every

Re: [Tagging] source:geolocation?

2010-02-21 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
2010/2/19 Cartinus carti...@xs4all.nl: To give an example: There is this convention centre where the building is drawn from source=whatever_aerial_image. Then they build an extention on the south side. So someone changes *part* of the shape of the building from

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Narrow width

2010-02-26 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
2010/2/23 Pieren pier...@gmail.com: wide truck. But if it is tagged est_width=3.5, you will not... And let say I have a bigger truck than yours and is 5 meters wide. How can I find a way if none of the highways have a width tag ? are we talking about boats or trucks? If you drive a big truck

Re: [Tagging] [OSM-talk] [tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - (amenity=ice_cream)

2010-03-14 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
2010/3/10 Giacomo Boschi gwil...@email.it: Greg Troxel ha scritto:   amenity=fast_food has a lot of baggage.  In the US, that means   factory-produced not-really-food of mediocre quality that is fast and   consistent.  A family ice cream shop is definitely not fast food even if   they can

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Tower

2010-03-23 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
2010/3/24 Chris Hunter chunter...@gmail.com: Hi all, According to Tagwatch, the man_made=tower tag is used over 20,000 times in North America alone. I'd like to move the tag from the proposed state to the ratified state if possible. It is already on the mapfeatures list. cheers, Martin

Re: [Tagging] [josm-dev] self-intersecting ways

2010-03-26 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
2010/3/26 Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org: I think we've heard all possible sides of this argument. You have three options: 1. Draw areas using same nodes as road - wrong because it suggests the area is larger than it really is. good for the database because you need less nodes. 2. Let

Re: [Tagging] Utility overcrossings?

2010-04-03 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
2010/4/3 John F. Eldredge j...@jfeldredge.com: Is there any alternate tag, other than highway, that would tag such an overhead structure?  If not, what would be a suitable tag? I have also seen over-street bridges that support conveyor belts used to move materials between industrial

Re: [Tagging] [OSM-talk] Combined bicycle footway

2011-08-23 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
2011/8/23 Richard Fairhurst rich...@systemed.net: You mean like this? http://homepage.ntlworld.com/pete.meg/wcc/facility-of-the-month/September2007.htm Yes :D Similarly exists in other parts of the world as well: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:Radeln_oder_doch_nicht.JPG The whole

Re: [Tagging] Request for comments on proposed tags for amenity=drinking_water

2011-08-23 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
The proposed example value for the historic key does not seem reasonable. (nrhp:1231313) I suggest you have a look how the world heritage proposal suggests to handle reference numbers: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/heritage heritage:operator=* see below.

Re: [Tagging] Request for comments on proposed tags for amenity=drinking_water

2011-08-26 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
2011/8/26 Mihkel Rämmel r...@hot.ee: repair=working/needs_repair/broken probably a better key would be something like state/condition because repair is currently used to indicate whether facility offers repairs for whatever they deal with (condition is also not good as it is used with roads

Re: [Tagging] [Imports] Bus data for Fairfax Connector, Fairfax County, Virginia, USA

2011-08-27 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
there is also the tag network that might be interesting to look at in this context: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:network http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Public_Transport cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list

[Tagging] landuse=residential and named residential areas which belong together (neighbourhoods/subdivisions?)

2011-08-29 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
We have been recently discussing on the German ML about landuse=residential. In Germany many mappers were mapping subdivisions / neighbourhoods [1] with landuse=residential. This led to very rough landuse information, because in order to keep the (sometimes quite big) area as a whole they are

Re: [Tagging] landuse=residential and named residential areas which belong together (neighbourhoods/subdivisions?)

2011-08-31 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
2011/8/31 Bryce Nesbitt bry...@obviously.com: I'm a city dweller. We have some (and will soon have some very prominent) rooftop parks. That's fine, you can tag them with leisure=park (or maybe leisure=garden, and garden:type) http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:leisure%3Dgarden

Re: [Tagging] RFC: place=neighbourhood

2011-08-31 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
2011/8/31 Brad Neuhauser brad.neuhau...@gmail.com: First off, I like this proposal too and think it's a long time coming. But, some references made me go and read the place=suburb wiki page again, and that tag seems very similar, so can that distinction be clarified?  That is, why would one

Re: [Tagging] landuse=residential and named residential areas which belong together (neighbourhoods/subdivisions?)

2011-08-31 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
2011/8/31 Greg Troxel g...@ir.bbn.com: I thought the issue was that there are two distinct concepts:  boundaries, where there is some legal distinction and a precise edge +1  place names, which have more or less indistinct boundaries. just because they have no legal status does not mean

Re: [Tagging] Use of place=suburb (was Re: RFC: place=neighbourhood)

2011-08-31 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
2011/8/31 Phil! Gold phi...@pobox.com: * Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com [2011-08-31 14:33 +0200]: No, suburb is actually not necessarily outside the city (in OSM), it is used for central districts as well. I've often been confused by the suburb tag and maybe someone can clear

Re: [Tagging] landuse=residential and named residential areas which belong together (neighbourhoods/subdivisions?)

2011-09-01 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
2011/8/31 Bryce Nesbitt bry...@obviously.com: On 08/31/2011 02:40 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: 2011/8/31 Bryce Nesbitt bry...@obviously.com: I'm a city dweller. We have some (and will soon have some very prominent) rooftop parks. That's fine, you can tag them with leisure=park (or maybe

Re: [Tagging] A name for stony ground?

2011-09-01 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
2011/9/1 Nathan Edgars II nerou...@gmail.com: On 8/31/2011 1:50 PM, Johan Jönsson wrote: A name to use for tagging stony ground. I am looking for a denomination to use for an area that have little or no vegetation so that the stony ground shows. Could there be a tag describing everything

[Tagging] [VOTING] New barrier types

2011-09-01 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
The proposal New barrier types is open for voting now. It formally introduces a series of barrier values most of which are already in active use, and suggests tags for additional measures like RFID-, biometric, magnetic-strip-card and other access-controll devices. See the proposal for the

Re: [Tagging] landuse=residential and named residential areas which belong together (neighbourhoods/subdivisions?)

2011-09-02 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
2011/9/2 Nathan Edgars II nerou...@gmail.com: On 9/2/2011 3:40 AM, Bryce Nesbitt wrote: The rendering seems cool with this, and it makes sense. If I draw a forest, then draw a landuse=reservoir on top of it, those interested in the forest's true area can subtract out the reservoir. No

Re: [Tagging] landuse=residential and named residential areas which belong together (neighbourhoods/subdivisions?)

2011-09-02 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
2011/9/2 Nathan Edgars II nerou...@gmail.com: On 9/2/2011 7:36 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: +1, I also disagree. I see landuse=forest as the effective area covered by trees. Hence I would subtract all other entities within. Disagree with this. landuse=forest should be the area that is used

Re: [Tagging] landuse=residential and named residential areas which belong together (neighbourhoods/subdivisions?)

2011-09-03 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
2011/9/3 Johan Jönsson joha...@goteborg.cc: +1 for using one tag for the whole forested area. Maybe something along the scheme of natural=wetland, wetland= {more detailed desc.} Maybe natural=woodland? no, woodland is an area with less dense trees then in a forest (it is a special ecological

Re: [Tagging] A name for stony ground?

2011-09-03 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
I started a new thread for this to reopen the general discussion about refining landcover (or natural landuses). cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

[Tagging] Refining landcover/natual landuse WAS Re: A name for stony ground?

2011-09-03 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
2011/9/2 Johan Jönsson joha...@goteborg.cc: It is an ambitious project and it would be nice if we could try to do something similar. +1 By there scheme bare_rock goes like this: Vegetation=no Wetland=no man_made_cover=no yes, in the first phase Further differentiating could be

Re: [Tagging] Mechanism for linking to a traffic_sign object in the source tag?

2011-09-04 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
2011/9/4 Nathan Edgars II nerou...@gmail.com: I'm wondering if there's an accepted way of specifying that the sign being used as a source has been mapped. For example: maxspeed=45 mph source:maxspeed=sign (node 43920231) where node 43920231 is traffic_sign=maxspeed maxspeed=45 mph As far as

Re: [Tagging] traffic lights

2011-09-05 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
2011/9/5 Bryce Nesbitt bry...@obviously.com: On 09/03/2011 07:30 AM, sergio sevillano wrote: are we mapping reality or for the router ? The question is at what resolution are we mapping? IMHO we should try to map at the highest possible resolution (our db has a ~1cm limit for coordinate

Re: [Tagging] A name for stony ground?

2011-09-05 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
2011/9/5 Johan Jönsson joha...@goteborg.cc: They have shown a distinct movement from land use-like classes to more physical definitions. The old Bare_Rock/Sand/Clay have been replaced by the simpler barren_land. !!This could be an alternative approach to the tag-name. Use vegetated or

Re: [Tagging] traffic lights

2011-09-06 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
2011/9/6 Bryce Nesbitt bry...@obviously.com: In the case of traffic lights if the intersection node is marked as having the proper control (e.g. none, stop light, stop sign, yield, TOUCAN, PELICAN, PUFFIN, Pegasus, etc), then additional detail is harmless.  A future simple router can route.  A

Re: [Tagging] traffic lights

2011-09-06 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
2011/9/6 John F. Eldredge j...@jfeldredge.com: If the traffic signals in Europe are directly above where you are supposed to stop, rather than ahead of that point, then how do you tell when it is OK to resume moving? First of all it is not everywhere the same in Europe, it really depends on

Re: [Tagging] water=*

2011-09-06 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
2011/9/6 Petr Morávek [Xificurk] xific...@gmail.com: as I've stated during voting, I don't think water=* is much of an improvement in tagging scheme of water bodies. I'm still curious - how do you tag natural lake that is used as a reservoir of water? I'd go with landuse=reservoir,

Re: [Tagging] traffic lights

2011-09-07 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
2011/9/6 sergio sevillano sergiosevillano.m...@gmail.com: the present tagging schema means this crossing is regulated by traffic lights (highway=traffic_lights in the intersection node) the relation proposal connects all traffic lights of an intersection meaning the same thing this crossing

Re: [Tagging] [OSM-talk] Roundabouts and routing

2011-09-09 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
2011/9/9 Graham Stewart (GrahamS) gra...@dalmuti.net: David Earl wrote: The reason I needed such a tag was to avoid one way arrows cluttering up the map on those little Y-shaped approaches to roundabouts This seems like a bad approach to me. (pardon the pun) If the road flares like that then

Re: [Tagging] water=*

2011-09-09 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
2011/9/8 Nathan Edgars II nerou...@gmail.com: On 9/8/2011 10:09 AM, Petr Morávek [Xificurk] wrote: Well, that's my point - the water key suggest deprecation of landuse=reservoir in favor of natural=water + water=reservoir, which imho pretty much messes up the distinction between physical

Re: [Tagging] water=*

2011-09-09 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
2011/9/8 Petr Morávek [Xificurk] xific...@gmail.com: the water key suggest deprecation of landuse=reservoir in favor of natural=water + water=reservoir, which imho pretty much messes up the distinction between physical object and its usage. which landuse-value does the water key suggest for

Re: [Tagging] Roundabouts and routing

2011-09-09 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
2011/9/9 Nathan Edgars II nerou...@gmail.com: On 9/9/2011 7:14 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: I also agree with others that those links shouldn't be tagged junction=roundabout. I'd tag the links into the roundabout in the example highway=trunk_link, oneway=yes (and maybe even lanes=1

Re: [Tagging] admin_level in EU NUTS/LAU

2011-09-15 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
2011/9/14 Petr Morávek [Xificurk] xific...@gmail.com: Hello, I would like to open the discussion about determining the admin_level of administrative boundaries in Europe according to NUTS/LAU division. Though this probably of interest only for people from EU, I don't think there is any better

Re: [Tagging] lanes tag dispute

2011-09-18 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
2011/9/18 Erik Johansson erjo...@gmail.com: On Sun, Sep 18, 2011 at 1:47 PM, Nathan Edgars II nerou...@gmail.com wrote: Currently user Alv is trying to redefine the lanes tag to say that it must include all turn lanes: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Key:lanesaction=history

Re: [Tagging] lanes tag dispute

2011-09-18 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
2011/9/18 Erik Johansson erjo...@gmail.com: Btw the current wiki page seems to say that you should count cycle lanes in the lanes tag, something I don't really agree with. +1, maybe we should specify that lanes is about car-lanes (restricted lanes like bus-lanes or cycle-lanes should IMHO be

Re: [Tagging] RFC: place=quarter, Parts of settlements, proposed hierarchy: suburb - quarter - neighbourhood

2011-09-27 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
2011/9/27 Nathan Edgars II nerou...@gmail.com: On 9/27/2011 12:40 PM, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: After more discussions on the German ML it looks as if one subdivision for suburbs (the proposed neighbourhood) was not enough, so we invented another level in the hierarchy of settlement parts

Re: [Tagging] RFC: place=quarter, Parts of settlements, proposed hierarchy: suburb - quarter - neighbourhood

2011-09-27 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
2011/9/27 Brad Neuhauser brad.neuhau...@gmail.com: Based on earlier discussions of place=suburb [1], I think it's good to start from an understanding that suburb as used in OSM does not match the common understanding of suburb in the US. [2] +1, yes, place=suburb is not a suburb. I also tried

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - bike safety

2011-09-27 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
2011/9/27 Nathan Edgars II nerou...@gmail.com: On 9/27/2011 4:57 PM, Gérard wrote: Given that studies disagree about what makes a street safe for cyclists, any tagging would be based not on safety but on how comfortable the mapper feels while riding in his or her preferred style. Use

Re: [Tagging] RFC: place=quarter, Parts of settlements, proposed hierarchy: suburb - quarter - neighbourhood

2011-09-27 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
2011/9/28 Nathan Edgars II nerou...@gmail.com: On 9/27/2011 7:15 PM, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: There's no consistent same level here. If you split Manhattan into three strips, Upper Manhattan is on the same level as Midtown. But if you go into slightly finer divisions, Harlem and Midtown

Re: [Tagging] RFC: place=quarter, Parts of settlements, proposed hierarchy: suburb - quarter - neighbourhood

2011-09-28 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
2011/9/28 Nathan Edgars II nerou...@gmail.com: On 9/27/2011 8:26 PM, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: How? What's wrong with all of the sub-Manhattan entities being place=neighborhood? not sure if there is something wrong there, so you could (as local mapper) decide to do it like this. In other

Re: [Tagging] RFC: place=quarter, Parts of settlements, proposed hierarchy: suburb - quarter - neighbourhood

2011-09-29 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
2011/9/28 Brad Neuhauser brad.neuhau...@gmail.com: Martin, I'm not sure the NYC example is helping.  You mentioned this was discussed on the German mailing list--can you give some other examples from Germany (or whereever) about how this might be used?  Thanks, Brad You might have a look at

Re: [Tagging] RFC: place=quarter, Parts of settlements, proposed hierarchy: suburb - quarter - neighbourhood

2011-09-30 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
2011/9/30 Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org: I am very much against using place=... for areas; if one wants to describe areas then one should use a boundary tag. place was from the beginning defined for nodes as well as for areas. Currently we (mapnik-OSM) are using external data (natural

Re: [Tagging] Exterior sprial staircase

2011-09-30 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
2011/9/30 David Earl da...@frankieandshadow.com: On 23/09/2011 21:44, David Earl wrote: Any existing examples of tagging an exterior spiral staircase? No one got excited by this, so I used  highway=spiral_staircase on a node (though in principle it could have a circular area for its

Re: [Tagging] Wheelchair lift

2011-09-30 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
2011/9/30 David Earl da...@frankieandshadow.com: On 23/09/2011 21:01, David Earl wrote: I can't immediately see reference to structures like I have ringed here: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:Wheelchair_lift.jpg It is a small platform to lift a wheelchair, usually as an alternative

Re: [Tagging] Commuter Rail

2011-10-05 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
2011/10/4 dan...@web.de: Hello list! In the German speaking forum we have been discussing about tagging commuter or suburban rail: http://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?id=13907 I really think it is a necessary tag to distinguish it from different rail transport systems. Today, I

Re: [Tagging] Wide steps

2011-10-09 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
I also have a proposal running for this kind of feature: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Relations/Proposed/Area#area-steps According to this proposal you'd draw at least the lower and the upper border of the steps as ways (possibly with an equal amount of nodes each) Then make a relation

Re: [Tagging] Wide steps

2011-10-09 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
2011/10/10 Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com: I also have a proposal running for this kind of feature: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Relations/Proposed/Area#area-steps Not sure how we should proceed to keep routing working. a) Either we'd expect software that prepares OSM-data

[Tagging] places and landuse=residential WAS Re: [OSM-talk] Jerusalem name tag - Mediation

2011-10-09 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
pulled this from talk because it was OT there 2011/10/8 Paul Norman penor...@mac.com: See also http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/131585141 with a creation date of 2011-09-28. Should the entire city be tagged with landuse=residential like it currently is? IMHO it shouldn't. You might

Re: [Tagging] Wide steps

2011-10-10 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
2011/10/10 John Sturdy jcg.stu...@gmail.com: On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 3:50 PM, David Earl da...@frankieandshadow.com wrote: Any suggestions as to how to represent some steps... These steps aren't that unusual I guess, but they aren't a staircase. They form the edges of a piazza-like platform,

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Turn Lanes

2011-10-11 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
Hi, I wonder if in this case: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/images/6/69/Simpleuklanes.jpg it would not be better to draw 2 ways (and add a relation to say that you could - against the traffic rules or maybe as a pedestrian - cross the street from one way to another? Otherwise there should be

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Turn Lanes

2011-10-11 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
2011/10/11 Ilya Zverev zve...@textual.ru: Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: There was a proposal for tagging type of divider, but it has been abandoned for several years: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Divider There is also a proposal for a relation to unify dual carriageways

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