Re: [GTALUG] ThinkPad T14s Gen 2 Intel (14”) -- good deal?

[William Park via talk]

I decided against buying it.  It doesn't have builtin ethernet port, and 
power port is not the square plug like other (older) ThinkPads.


My company upgraded to ThinkPad P1 (64GB ram, 1TB ssd), and it's crap. 
First laptop didn't recognize AC power plug, forcing me to charge via 
USB-C.  Second (current) laptop crashes everyday, especially during Zoom 
but not always.


I'm looking to upgrade my desktop.  Hopefully with a laptop, but another 
desktop is okay too.  I was going to buy the same laptop as work laptop, 
and I'm glad I waited.



On 2023-02-28 12:12, D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk wrote:

| From: William Park via talk 
|
| I just received email promo from Lenovo:
|
| ThinkPad T14s Gen 2 Intel (14”) - Black
| https://s.bluecore.com/Utrkeyg72dZq_0DQf820_NrJxD
|
| Is this a good deal?

The more precise question would "is this a good deal for me?"
Unfortunately we don't really know what you need or want.

My current ideas about Lenovo:

- they have horribly high list prices

- they often put stuff on sale.  Usually 40-50+ percent off.

- (all brands) expandability of notebooks is being reduced.  Different
   models are different.  Pro Tip: apparently no LPDDR4 DRAM is in sockets.
   Many machines have no RAM sockets -- all soldered.
   Some have soldered RAM + 1 socket (a lifeline but annoying because
   two matched SODIMMs perform better).
   
- they have a changing array of coupons to give you additional discounts.

   They are not secret but they are sometimes hard to find.

- sometimes you can get significant cash-back by going through rakuten.ca
   10% yesterday and today but that is higher than normal.  I've seen it at
   14% a couple of weeks ago.
   Note: rakuten does not combine with some coupons (hard to figure out
   which)

- there is an educational / first responders discount through id.me
   I know little about it because I don't qualify.

About this particular computer:

- for that much money, I'd demand perfection.

- I'd prefer a better screen (more pixels, more nits, better colour
   perhaps, maybe touch)

- I'd prefer a later generation Intel CPU.  They really seem to be getting
   better in each recent generation.  I also prefer AMD but I think that
   Intel is now getting close and has some advantages (Thunderbolt,
   "efficiency cores").

   (AMD Ryzen CPU naming is a misleading mess.  You have to look up the
   particular chip to find out the microarchitecture generation.)

- I have not bought ThinkPads recently because the price premium has been
   too high.  I certainly liked much about my ancient ones.
   Exception: I bought ThinkPad C13 ChromeBooks but they were less than
   $200.

- 16G RAM is much better that 8G but is it enough for the long
   amortization period of such an expensive notebook? (Three years ago I
   threw 32G in my main notebook because it was so cheap; I don't know if I
   need it)  For most people, 16G is comfortable.  For you: I have no way
   of knowing; probably you don't either.

- I find interesting deals on redflagdeals.com, in the Hot Deals Forum.
   Deals come and go.

- Randomly, this is cheaper and has better features but is a ThinkBook
   rather than a ThinkPad (not the same quality).  Note: I'm not
   recommending it (I haven't looked closely at it)



- if still available, this is a little more than half the cost of the
   ThinkPad and better in some ways.  You may detest the format: touch
   screen, can be folded into a tablet.



If you don't mind a barely used ThinkPad, this guy bought one at a very
good price from Lenovo, decided he didn't need it, instead of returning it
offered it to the community at cost, got stiffed, and is probably stuck
with it.  So: he might accept a bit less than his asking price:



Somewhere in the forums he mentioned why he didn't like it as much as
other choices.

Note: his price will not be subject to HST.  He might be able to give
you a copy of his original invoice which will show the HST he paid.

Note: I haven't talked to him about this so much is guess-work on my part.


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Re: [GTALUG] ThinkPad T14s Gen 2 Intel (14”) -- good deal?

[D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk]

| From: D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk 

| If you don't mind a barely used ThinkPad, this guy bought one at a very 
| good price from Lenovo, decided he didn't need it, instead of returning it 
| offered it to the community at cost, got stiffed, and is probably stuck 
| with it.

Wrong.  He's going to return it soon if nobody wants it.


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Re: [GTALUG] ppp inside private network, but no DNS returned?

[William Park via talk]

I don't do dialup anymore.  But, looking at my old PPP setup (I'm 
surprised I still have it), 'dns-addr' is assigned in /etc/ppp/options.


On 2023-02-28 14:50, Stewart Russell via talk wrote:

Hey - we've got a fun little problem happening right now.

We're connecting a Linux box via LTE to a client's private network. They 
want us to connect to a host on that network and upload files via sftp. 
We've demonstrated that all of this works with every other LTE network, 
but in their walled garden LTE network, they're not returning any DNS 
server, so we can't find the host at all. This network does not have 
access to public DNS.


Does one usually have to poke a ppp connection a little more to get 
useful routing information, or should we have "just got" all the gateway 
and DNS details on first connection?


  Stewart
(as you can tell, I'm not a network person, but we might appreciate 
finding one and paying for support)



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Re: [GTALUG] ppp inside private network, but no DNS returned?

[Stewart C. Russell via talk]

On 28/02/2023 16.22, James Knott via talk wrote:

On 2023-02-28 16:21, Stewart Russell via talk wrote:
Also, these are devices that are on a network that couldn't reach 
OneDrive.


Maybe you could try sneakernet.  
They're in sealed boxes, up high, possibly near high-voltage equipment. 
You go first, I'll wait ...

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Re: [GTALUG] ppp inside private network, but no DNS returned?

[James Knott via talk]

On 2023-02-28 16:21, Stewart Russell via talk wrote:
Also, these are devices that are on a network that couldn't reach 
OneDrive.


Maybe you could try sneakernet.  
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Re: [GTALUG] ppp inside private network, but no DNS returned?

[Stewart Russell via talk]

On Tue, Feb 28, 2023 at 4:13 PM William Park via talk 
wrote:

> Ah, they want you to debug for them for free.
>

This is absolutely not the case. Never attribute to malice that which can
be more easily explained by massive bureaucracy. Also, these are devices
that are on a network that couldn't reach OneDrive.

 Stewart
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Re: [GTALUG] ppp inside private network, but no DNS returned?

[William Park via talk]

Ah, they want you to debug for them for free.  If the client is big 
enough, then, yes, do complimentary service.  If not, then just upload 
an encrypted zipfile to OneDrive (or whatever), and tell them to download.


On 2023-02-28 15:28, Stewart Russell via talk wrote:

Thanks, all. Yes, there has to be a DNS, but there's a chance that

 1. we haven't been told what it is;
 2. our connection/hardware hasn't been authorized to connect to it or
know what it is
(yes, it's that kind of place)

There is no other internet connection. We've been given a host name, not 
an internal IP address to connect to. We're also hearing that we're the 
first folks connecting via this ultra-locked down LTE network for IOT 
devices, so maybe they forgot to provision some services


On Tue, Feb 28, 2023 at 3:11 PM Alvin Starr via talk > wrote:


PPP does not require a dns server address to be provided.
But most folks do provide one because it would make for LOTS of support
calls to not hand out your DNS servers.

Is there a DNS on the network that your connecting to at all?
If not then you wll likely be forecd to use the /etc/hosts file to add
in the IP addresses of the target systems.



On 2023-02-28 14:50, Stewart Russell via talk wrote:
 > Hey - we've got a fun little problem happening right now.
 >
 > We're connecting a Linux box via LTE to a client's private network.
 > They want us to connect to a host on that network and upload
files via
 > sftp. We've demonstrated that all of this works with every other LTE
 > network, but in their walled garden LTE network, they're not
returning
 > any DNS server, so we can't find the host at all. This network does
 > not have access to public DNS.
 >
 > Does one usually have to poke a ppp connection a little more to get
 > useful routing information, or should we have "just got" all the
 > gateway and DNS details on first connection?
 >
 >  Stewart
 > (as you can tell, I'm not a network person, but we might appreciate
 > finding one and paying for support)
 >
 >
 > ---
 > Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org 
 > Unsubscribe from this mailing list
https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk


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Re: [GTALUG] ppp inside private network, but no DNS returned?

[Dave Collier-Brown via talk]

If the externally-reachable network is intended for the IOT devices to connect to, they may well be 
using IP addresses only.  Call it the "DMZ network" or "external network".

They probably have a "management network" that goes to different interfaces, 
and which has DNS services for their own convenience. I've seen setups like this

internet --> DMZ network --> host <- management network <- firewall <- office 
network

--dave



On 2/28/23 15:28, Stewart Russell via talk wrote:
Thanks, all. Yes, there has to be a DNS, but there's a chance that

 1.  we haven't been told what it is;
 2.  our connection/hardware hasn't been authorized to connect to it or know 
what it is
(yes, it's that kind of place)

There is no other internet connection. We've been given a host name, not an 
internal IP address to connect to. We're also hearing that we're the first 
folks connecting via this ultra-locked down LTE network for IOT devices, so 
maybe they forgot to provision some services

On Tue, Feb 28, 2023 at 3:11 PM Alvin Starr via talk 
mailto:talk@gtalug.org>> wrote:
PPP does not require a dns server address to be provided.
But most folks do provide one because it would make for LOTS of support
calls to not hand out your DNS servers.

Is there a DNS on the network that your connecting to at all?
If not then you wll likely be forecd to use the /etc/hosts file to add
in the IP addresses of the target systems.



On 2023-02-28 14:50, Stewart Russell via talk wrote:

Hey - we've got a fun little problem happening right now.

We're connecting a Linux box via LTE to a client's private network.
They want us to connect to a host on that network and upload files via
sftp. We've demonstrated that all of this works with every other LTE
network, but in their walled garden LTE network, they're not returning
any DNS server, so we can't find the host at all. This network does
not have access to public DNS.

Does one usually have to poke a ppp connection a little more to get
useful routing information, or should we have "just got" all the
gateway and DNS details on first connection?

 Stewart
(as you can tell, I'm not a network person, but we might appreciate
finding one and paying for support)


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Re: [GTALUG] ppp inside private network, but no DNS returned?

[Alvin Starr via talk]

You can enable debugging in your pppd config which may help.
There is also a "usepeerdns" pppd option that may give you some joy.

I have a client who has a prison as a customer and they have lots of 
unusual requirements for computers inside the wire.
I have debugged hundreds of PPP clients/servers over the years so if you 
want some help feel free to reach out and contact me.




On 2023-02-28 15:28, Stewart Russell via talk wrote:

Thanks, all. Yes, there has to be a DNS, but there's a chance that

 1. we haven't been told what it is;
 2. our connection/hardware hasn't been authorized to connect to it or
know what it is
(yes, it's that kind of place)

There is no other internet connection. We've been given a host name, 
not an internal IP address to connect to. We're also hearing that 
we're the first folks connecting via this ultra-locked down LTE 
network for IOT devices, so maybe they forgot to provision some services


On Tue, Feb 28, 2023 at 3:11 PM Alvin Starr via talk  
wrote:


PPP does not require a dns server address to be provided.
But most folks do provide one because it would make for LOTS of
support
calls to not hand out your DNS servers.

Is there a DNS on the network that your connecting to at all?
If not then you wll likely be forecd to use the /etc/hosts file to
add
in the IP addresses of the target systems.



On 2023-02-28 14:50, Stewart Russell via talk wrote:
> Hey - we've got a fun little problem happening right now.
>
> We're connecting a Linux box via LTE to a client's private network.
> They want us to connect to a host on that network and upload
files via
> sftp. We've demonstrated that all of this works with every other
LTE
> network, but in their walled garden LTE network, they're not
returning
> any DNS server, so we can't find the host at all. This network does
> not have access to public DNS.
>
> Does one usually have to poke a ppp connection a little more to get
> useful routing information, or should we have "just got" all the
> gateway and DNS details on first connection?
>
>  Stewart
> (as you can tell, I'm not a network person, but we might appreciate
> finding one and paying for support)
>
>
> ---
> Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org
> Unsubscribe from this mailing list
https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk

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Re: [GTALUG] ppp inside private network, but no DNS returned?

[Stewart Russell via talk]

Thanks, all. Yes, there has to be a DNS, but there's a chance that

   1. we haven't been told what it is;
   2. our connection/hardware hasn't been authorized to connect to it or
   know what it is
   (yes, it's that kind of place)

There is no other internet connection. We've been given a host name, not an
internal IP address to connect to. We're also hearing that we're the first
folks connecting via this ultra-locked down LTE network for IOT devices, so
maybe they forgot to provision some services

On Tue, Feb 28, 2023 at 3:11 PM Alvin Starr via talk 
wrote:

> PPP does not require a dns server address to be provided.
> But most folks do provide one because it would make for LOTS of support
> calls to not hand out your DNS servers.
>
> Is there a DNS on the network that your connecting to at all?
> If not then you wll likely be forecd to use the /etc/hosts file to add
> in the IP addresses of the target systems.
>
>
>
> On 2023-02-28 14:50, Stewart Russell via talk wrote:
> > Hey - we've got a fun little problem happening right now.
> >
> > We're connecting a Linux box via LTE to a client's private network.
> > They want us to connect to a host on that network and upload files via
> > sftp. We've demonstrated that all of this works with every other LTE
> > network, but in their walled garden LTE network, they're not returning
> > any DNS server, so we can't find the host at all. This network does
> > not have access to public DNS.
> >
> > Does one usually have to poke a ppp connection a little more to get
> > useful routing information, or should we have "just got" all the
> > gateway and DNS details on first connection?
> >
> >  Stewart
> > (as you can tell, I'm not a network person, but we might appreciate
> > finding one and paying for support)
> >
> >
> > ---
> > Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org
> > Unsubscribe from this mailing list
> https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> --
> Alvin Starr   ||   land:  (647)478-6285
> Netvel Inc.   ||   Cell:  (416)806-0133
> al...@netvel.net  ||
>
> ---
> Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org
> Unsubscribe from this mailing list
> https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>


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Re: [GTALUG] ppp inside private network, but no DNS returned?

[Alvin Starr via talk]

PPP does not require a dns server address to be provided.
But most folks do provide one because it would make for LOTS of support 
calls to not hand out your DNS servers.


Is there a DNS on the network that your connecting to at all?
If not then you wll likely be forecd to use the /etc/hosts file to add 
in the IP addresses of the target systems.




On 2023-02-28 14:50, Stewart Russell via talk wrote:

Hey - we've got a fun little problem happening right now.

We're connecting a Linux box via LTE to a client's private network. 
They want us to connect to a host on that network and upload files via 
sftp. We've demonstrated that all of this works with every other LTE 
network, but in their walled garden LTE network, they're not returning 
any DNS server, so we can't find the host at all. This network does 
not have access to public DNS.


Does one usually have to poke a ppp connection a little more to get 
useful routing information, or should we have "just got" all the 
gateway and DNS details on first connection?


 Stewart
(as you can tell, I'm not a network person, but we might appreciate 
finding one and paying for support)



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Re: [GTALUG] ppp inside private network, but no DNS returned?

[D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk]

How do they want you to find things on their net?

Do they have a DNS server?  Surely yes.

They should put it into the PPP negotiation.  Why would they not?

If they won't put it into PPP, maybe you have to monkey with 
/etc/resolv.conf (systemd will argue with you).

If they don't have a DNS, what do they use?
Perhaps you can use mDNS / bonjour / whatever?

Does the device have another internet connection at the same time?  At 
other times?  If so, it might need a DNS solution that works for that 
connection.
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Re: [GTALUG] ppp inside private network, but no DNS returned?

[Dave Collier-Brown via talk]

I wonder if

 1.  they decided to not use DNS, in which case they would have given you an IP 
address, or
 2.  they decided to not tell outsiders where the DNS server was, so that the 
outsider would have to be given an IP address, or
 3.  they didn't tell outsiders where the DNS server was because they didn't 
know they needed to, and just took the default (;-))

--dave


On 2/28/23 14:58, Stewart Russell via talk wrote:


On Tue, Feb 28, 2023 at 2:55 PM James Knott via talk 
mailto:talk@gtalug.org>> wrote:



Doesn't the PPP server normally provide the DNS address?
https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc1877.html#section-1.1

I'd have expected so, but that RFC says "By default, no primary DNS address is 
provided."

thanks




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Re: [GTALUG] ppp inside private network, but no DNS returned?

[James Knott via talk]

On 2023-02-28 14:58, Stewart Russell via talk wrote:



On Tue, Feb 28, 2023 at 2:55 PM James Knott via talk  
wrote:


>
Doesn't the PPP server normally provide the DNS address?
https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc1877.html#section-1.1


I'd have expected so, but that RFC says "By default, no primary DNS 
address is provided."



Can you reach hosts by IP address?
PPP does not work the same way as a LAN does.  On a LAN, DNS would 
normally be provided by the DHCP server.  However, since PPP links 
provide the IP address, no DHCP server is used.  Also, I believe there's 
a slightly different DNS provided for Windows clients.  How is that 
network set up?  Perhaps for Windows clients and you're using Linux?



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Re: [GTALUG] ppp inside private network, but no DNS returned?

[Stewart Russell via talk]

On Tue, Feb 28, 2023 at 2:55 PM James Knott via talk 
wrote:

> >
> Doesn't the PPP server normally provide the DNS address?
> https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc1877.html#section-1.1


I'd have expected so, but that RFC says "By default, no primary DNS address
is provided."

thanks
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Re: [GTALUG] ppp inside private network, but no DNS returned?

[James Knott via talk]

On 2023-02-28 14:50, Stewart Russell via talk wrote:

Hey - we've got a fun little problem happening right now.

We're connecting a Linux box via LTE to a client's private network. 
They want us to connect to a host on that network and upload files via 
sftp. We've demonstrated that all of this works with every other LTE 
network, but in their walled garden LTE network, they're not returning 
any DNS server, so we can't find the host at all. This network does 
not have access to public DNS.


Does one usually have to poke a ppp connection a little more to get 
useful routing information, or should we have "just got" all the 
gateway and DNS details on first connection?


 Stewart
(as you can tell, I'm not a network person, but we might appreciate 
finding one and paying for support)




Doesn't the PPP server normally provide the DNS address?
https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc1877.html#section-1.1

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[GTALUG] ppp inside private network, but no DNS returned?

[Stewart Russell via talk]

Hey - we've got a fun little problem happening right now.

We're connecting a Linux box via LTE to a client's private network. They
want us to connect to a host on that network and upload files via sftp.
We've demonstrated that all of this works with every other LTE network, but
in their walled garden LTE network, they're not returning any DNS server,
so we can't find the host at all. This network does not have access to
public DNS.

Does one usually have to poke a ppp connection a little more to get useful
routing information, or should we have "just got" all the gateway and DNS
details on first connection?

 Stewart
(as you can tell, I'm not a network person, but we might appreciate finding
one and paying for support)
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Re: [GTALUG] ThinkPad T14s Gen 2 Intel (14”) -- good deal?

[D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk]

| From: William Park via talk 
| 
| I just received email promo from Lenovo:
| 
| ThinkPad T14s Gen 2 Intel (14”) - Black
| https://s.bluecore.com/Utrkeyg72dZq_0DQf820_NrJxD
| 
| Is this a good deal?

The more precise question would "is this a good deal for me?"
Unfortunately we don't really know what you need or want.

My current ideas about Lenovo:

- they have horribly high list prices

- they often put stuff on sale.  Usually 40-50+ percent off.

- (all brands) expandability of notebooks is being reduced.  Different 
  models are different.  Pro Tip: apparently no LPDDR4 DRAM is in sockets.
  Many machines have no RAM sockets -- all soldered.
  Some have soldered RAM + 1 socket (a lifeline but annoying because
  two matched SODIMMs perform better).
  
- they have a changing array of coupons to give you additional discounts.
  They are not secret but they are sometimes hard to find.

- sometimes you can get significant cash-back by going through rakuten.ca
  10% yesterday and today but that is higher than normal.  I've seen it at
  14% a couple of weeks ago.
  Note: rakuten does not combine with some coupons (hard to figure out 
  which)

- there is an educational / first responders discount through id.me
  I know little about it because I don't qualify.

About this particular computer:

- for that much money, I'd demand perfection.

- I'd prefer a better screen (more pixels, more nits, better colour 
  perhaps, maybe touch)

- I'd prefer a later generation Intel CPU.  They really seem to be getting 
  better in each recent generation.  I also prefer AMD but I think that 
  Intel is now getting close and has some advantages (Thunderbolt, 
  "efficiency cores").

  (AMD Ryzen CPU naming is a misleading mess.  You have to look up the 
  particular chip to find out the microarchitecture generation.)

- I have not bought ThinkPads recently because the price premium has been 
  too high.  I certainly liked much about my ancient ones.
  Exception: I bought ThinkPad C13 ChromeBooks but they were less than 
  $200.

- 16G RAM is much better that 8G but is it enough for the long 
  amortization period of such an expensive notebook? (Three years ago I 
  threw 32G in my main notebook because it was so cheap; I don't know if I 
  need it)  For most people, 16G is comfortable.  For you: I have no way 
  of knowing; probably you don't either.

- I find interesting deals on redflagdeals.com, in the Hot Deals Forum.  
  Deals come and go.

- Randomly, this is cheaper and has better features but is a ThinkBook 
  rather than a ThinkPad (not the same quality).  Note: I'm not 
  recommending it (I haven't looked closely at it)



- if still available, this is a little more than half the cost of the 
  ThinkPad and better in some ways.  You may detest the format: touch 
  screen, can be folded into a tablet.



If you don't mind a barely used ThinkPad, this guy bought one at a very 
good price from Lenovo, decided he didn't need it, instead of returning it 
offered it to the community at cost, got stiffed, and is probably stuck 
with it.  So: he might accept a bit less than his asking price:



Somewhere in the forums he mentioned why he didn't like it as much as 
other choices.

Note: his price will not be subject to HST.  He might be able to give 
you a copy of his original invoice which will show the HST he paid.

Note: I haven't talked to him about this so much is guess-work on my part.---
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Re: [GTALUG] war story in progress: NVMe drive

[Lennart Sorensen via talk]

On Mon, Feb 27, 2023 at 01:24:41PM -0500, Jason Shaw via talk wrote:
> You may be able to use virtualbox and a Windows image to run the upgrade.
> 
> Here's a nice list of where you can find images:
> https://github.com/SheepKid12/msft-modern.ie-images#available-images

Well certainly PCIe passthrough should be able to pass through NVMe
drives to a VM, but that means you can't be using that NVMe drive from
the host at all, so you need another drive to be running your OS from
while running the VM with windows to update the NVMe.

Do bootable USB versions of windows exist?
https://www.pcmag.com/how-to/how-to-run-windows-10-from-a-usb-drive seems
to say it's possible.

That might be simpler for just running a firmware update if needed.

-- 
Len Sorensen
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Re: [GTALUG] ThinkPad T14s Gen 2 Intel (14”) -- good deal?

[Lennart Sorensen via talk]

On Mon, Feb 27, 2023 at 06:40:16PM -0500, Michael Hill via talk wrote:
> It seems like a good deal but I couldn't find any evidence that it was
> possible to increase the RAM.

You can not upgrade the ram.  That model (like most of the slim s
versions) is not upgradable.  You have what you bought and that's it.

-- 
Len Sorensen
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