Re: [talk-au] Common or not??

2009-12-20 Thread Steve Bennett
On Mon, Dec 21, 2009 at 4:52 PM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.comwrote: 2009/12/21 Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com: information=guidepost? mobile_library_stop=Tu 10:00-12:30 ? That's extremely specific. The chance of any renderer ever supporting that is very low. Better to go

Re: [talk-au] Common or not??

2009-12-20 Thread Steve Bennett
On Mon, Dec 21, 2009 at 5:22 PM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.comwrote: Compared to atm=yes rendering? :) It's not a bus stop and I wouldn't tag it as such as they could be incorrectly rendered. In fact some mobile libraries aren't buses, the only ones I've ever seen in recent times

[OSM-talk] Cross-renderer tag support, now with OSMdoc!

2009-12-19 Thread Steve Bennett
Hi all, Thanks to Lars' help, my table of cross-renderer tag support now includes stats from OSMdoc. This is a huge step forward in understanding not only which tags are recognised by the various renderers and editors, but how much they're actually used in the database. A count of distinct

Re: [OSM-talk] Cross-renderer tag support, now with OSMdoc!

2009-12-19 Thread Steve Bennett
On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 11:53 PM, Ulf Lamping ulf.lamp...@googlemail.comwrote: There seems to be a bug, e.g.: shop=tailor is existing 62 times in the DB: http://www.informationfreeway.org/api/0.6/node[shop=tailor] but the corresponding row in your table shows no value. Whoops, forgot to

Re: [OSM-talk] Cross-renderer tag support, now with OSMdoc!

2009-12-19 Thread Steve Bennett
On Sun, Dec 20, 2009 at 12:28 AM, Cartinus carti...@xs4all.nl wrote: What this is also very good for, is pointing out all the broken stuff in the default Osmarender rules. Like the values for shop tags under amenity and the values for religion tags under denomination. They are redlinked,

Re: [OSM-talk] Cross-renderer tag support, now with OSMdoc!

2009-12-19 Thread Steve Bennett
Incidentally, I'm keen to get this information included in the map features table. I did a mockup of what it would look like for one group of features: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Stevage/cycleway I picked cycleway because it was short :) It would be more interesting for other

Re: [OSM-talk] Cross-renderer tag support, now with OSMdoc!

2009-12-19 Thread Steve Bennett
On Sun, Dec 20, 2009 at 2:56 AM, Lars Francke lars.fran...@gmail.comwrote: Another limitation is that the data is from sometime in August 2009. I'm currently rewriting OSMdoc to be continuously updated and to include historical data. Cool, what do you mean by historical data though? Do you

Re: [OSM-talk] Cross-renderer tag support, now with OSMdoc!

2009-12-19 Thread Steve Bennett
On Sun, Dec 20, 2009 at 4:41 AM, Dave F. dave...@madasafish.com wrote: This is looking useful. One thing it doesn't pick up on ( I'm not sure if it's possible) is to distinguish how a particular renderer deals with rendering areas. For instance pubs in Mapnik are rendered as POI's even if

[OSM-talk] ClosedCycleMap (was: Re: Cross-renderer tag support, now with OSMdoc!)

2009-12-19 Thread Steve Bennett
On Sun, Dec 20, 2009 at 10:46 AM, Lennard l...@xs4all.nl wrote: This is completely separate from the rendering of nodes, where it will (as mentioned before) only render barrier=gate, nor of the completely Also barrier=bollard. Probably - I'll have a look. It's just a different stylesheet

Re: [OSM-talk] Cross-renderer tag support, now with OSMdoc!

2009-12-19 Thread Steve Bennett
On Sun, Dec 20, 2009 at 11:49 AM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: There are no deprecated tags in OSM because that would require an authority to deprecate them and we neither have nor want that. There are tags being used less in favour of other tags; there are tags slowly being

Re: [OSM-talk] ClosedCycleMap (was: Re: Cross-renderer tag support, now with OSMdoc!)

2009-12-19 Thread Steve Bennett
On Sun, Dec 20, 2009 at 1:41 PM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.comwrote: You're not the first to notice this either, came up a feww weeks/month ago. Yeah, I see that one post on the mailing list, but no followup. Where are the keen cyclists of OSM clamouring for an *open* cyclemap? Steve

Re: [OSM-talk] ClosedCycleMap (was: Re: Cross-renderer tag support, now with OSMdoc!)

2009-12-19 Thread Steve Bennett
On Sun, Dec 20, 2009 at 1:58 PM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.comwrote: Most of them might not have the technical skills or the inclination since someone else has already made something good enough Of course. I think very few users have the technical skills. But I want those who do, to be

Re: [OSM-talk] Cross-renderer tag support, now with OSMdoc!

2009-12-19 Thread Steve Bennett
On Sun, Dec 20, 2009 at 1:54 PM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.comwrote: In a way that probably happens to an extent, the renderers stop rendering a tag(s) so people start tagging differently as a result so their data continues to render. But whatever they do, they never tag for the

Re: [talk-au] Stimulus funding locations

2009-12-19 Thread Steve Bennett
On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 6:46 PM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.comwrote: I thought you meant for the stimulus import, I upload all the data to a work server: I was thinking of just a list of URLs and descriptions: police stations come from ..., status: ... That server also serves tiles,

Re: [talk-au] Stimulus funding locations

2009-12-19 Thread Steve Bennett
On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 11:34 PM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.comwrote: 2009/12/19 Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com: I was thinking of just a list of URLs and descriptions: police stations come from ..., status: ... We'd be better importing the data ourself and telling people

Re: [talk-au] Stimulus funding locations

2009-12-19 Thread Steve Bennett
On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 11:45 PM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.comwrote: Well you can see all sources of available government data on the .au gov's website: http://data.australia.gov.au Yeah but if we have our own list, it becomes a project, with status, where we can take notes etc. If

Re: [OSM-talk] openmaps.eu

2009-12-18 Thread Steve Bennett
On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 4:29 PM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.comwrote: While it's a noble pursuit to help a specific demographic I think it's important not to exclude others in the process, most areas I've lived in in the last 12 months have no NearMap coverage, there is some coverage

Re: [OSM-talk] Countering Google's propaganda

2009-12-18 Thread Steve Bennett
On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 3:57 PM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.comwrote: The reduce the map frame size and put the ad along the bottom of the map, also when taking a screen shot of this they also add ads on the left hand pane. http://img193.imageshack.us/i/googleadsc.png/ Hmm, I can't

Re: [OSM-talk] revert changesets??

2009-12-18 Thread Steve Bennett
On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 2:13 PM, Apollinaris Schoell ascho...@gmail.comwrote: We map what is on ground ( with some exceptions like boundaries) And powerlines, and opening hours, and bus/tram/bike routes, and proposed/planned/demolished buildings/roads, and ski runs, and culturally interesting

Re: [OSM-talk] openmaps.eu

2009-12-18 Thread Steve Bennett
On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 7:34 PM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.comwrote: This is a documentation issue, not a viewing issue, Buh? the OSM website is a bit disjointed, once a local entity is sorted out I'm planning to get a localised a website setup and from there we can start to

Re: [talk-au] Roundabouts and routing

2009-12-18 Thread Steve Bennett
On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 4:31 PM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.comwrote: Technically all it does is introduce it to the map features page, but that doesn't mean you can't use it anyway, it doesn't mean you can't document it's usage on other pages, although some people say that map features

Re: [talk-au] Roundabouts and routing

2009-12-18 Thread Steve Bennett
On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 7:12 PM, Ross Scanlon i...@4x4falcon.com wrote: Likewise it's not necessary to have multiple nodes on a straight section of road (unless it's really long). As an example I just came across one straight road that was 150m long. It had 6 nodes on it where it could have

Re: [talk-au] Roundabouts and routing

2009-12-18 Thread Steve Bennett
On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 11:43 PM, Ross Scanlon i...@4x4falcon.com wrote: Better way to do it is zoomed out so you can see the whole section you want to trace. Mark an end point then mark the other end. Then zoom and accurately adjust the end points, once they are in the correct place then

Re: [talk-au] Roundabouts and routing

2009-12-18 Thread Steve Bennett
On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 8:31 AM, Roy Wallace waldo000...@gmail.com wrote: The real issue here is what are we mapping - and with the intersection example, the issue seems to be whether the ways should accurately correspond to geographic reality (_messy), or not (_simple). IMHO, it's quite

Re: [talk-au] Stimulus funding locations

2009-12-18 Thread Steve Bennett
On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 2:22 AM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.comwrote: Another document with lat/lon data, but this one will need to be dealt with manually, contains locations and types of projects money is being spent on, seems to be useful for extracting school and park locations, and

Re: [talk-au] Centrelink locations

2009-12-18 Thread Steve Bennett
Yeah, good work. Should the name be Bairnsdale Centrelink or just Centrelink? ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au

Re: [talk-au] Roundabouts and routing

2009-12-18 Thread Steve Bennett
On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 11:54 AM, Roy Wallace waldo000...@gmail.com wrote: Sure, and I see the logic - but the fact you needed to think long and hard means it's probably better if the routing can be fixed to cope with either kind of mapping. Yes. Although if we're trying to make our map data

Re: [talk-au] Centrelink locations

2009-12-18 Thread Steve Bennett
On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 12:00 PM, Roy Wallace waldo000...@gmail.com wrote: But isn't this a problem with the user i.e. the GPS unit software? I.e. shouldn't the suburb be retrieved from an admin boundary if required? IMHO the name=* value should be the name. If it's actually called Bairnsdale

Re: [talk-au] Centrelink locations

2009-12-18 Thread Steve Bennett
On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 12:19 PM, Roy Wallace waldo000...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 11:07 AM, Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com wrote: I feel weird tagging name=Bowls Club - that's clearly not the name I would feel weird too! If you don't know the name, PLEASE don't enter

Re: [talk-au] Centrelink locations

2009-12-18 Thread Steve Bennett
On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 6:15 PM, Roy Wallace waldo000...@gmail.com wrote: People tag A=B when they know A does not equal B. Do you really want me to explain why this isn't a good idea? You want steak. I only have chicken. I want you to explain why you prefer to starve. More prosaically, many

Re: [OSM-talk] Countering Google's propaganda

2009-12-17 Thread Steve Bennett
On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 11:24 PM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.comwrote: What a pity the whole basis for Copenhagen is a complete and utter sham, it's true global warming is man made, the moment some men started fudging the figures and lying about anything that disagreed with political

Re: [OSM-talk] openmaps.eu

2009-12-17 Thread Steve Bennett
Hmm, no one thought of registering Open Maps as a trademark as well as OpenStreetMap? On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 6:33 PM, Andreas Labres l...@lab.at wrote: Patrick from talk-at found this by chance: http://openmaps.eu/ They seem to be reinventing the wheel, somehow... /al

[OSM-talk] Suggestion: fallback tag

2009-12-17 Thread Steve Bennett
Hi all, As we all know, you don't tag for the renderer. However, you want your map data to render nicely now, and you want correct map data in the long term. Suggestion: introduce a fallback tag. For example, around my city there are little reserves - patches of grass reserved by the

Re: [OSM-talk] Suggestion: fallback tag

2009-12-17 Thread Steve Bennett
On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 11:55 PM, Shalabh shalab...@gmail.com wrote: 1. And what if even the 'fallback tag' is not rendered by the renderer? That's the current situation. So, the worst case scenario, with this tag, is...what we have now. Every other case is an improvement. 2. Some things

Re: [OSM-talk] Suggestion: fallback tag

2009-12-17 Thread Steve Bennett
On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 12:03 AM, Peter Körner osm-li...@mazdermind.dewrote: Tagging for and only or the renderer is a bad idea. Better sind in a patch to the mapnik xml, With respect, fix the renderer is not a solution to how do I tag in such a way that current and future renderers will

Re: [OSM-talk] Suggestion: fallback tag

2009-12-17 Thread Steve Bennett
On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 12:12 AM, Shalabh shalab...@gmail.com wrote: Anyway, for this approach to even start making sense, there has to be TAG FAMILY TREE covering each known tag such that each has fallback options going up to a certain level. And then each renderer should follow the TAG

Re: [OSM-talk] Suggestion: fallback tag

2009-12-17 Thread Steve Bennett
On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 12:11 AM, Joseph Reeves iknowjos...@gmail.comwrote: This seems like a confusing proposal to ensure that a tiny fraction of a percentage of the whitespace on OSM.org gets *something* rendered in it. No, it's a proposal to encourage people to tag for the future and to

Re: [OSM-talk] Suggestion: fallback tag

2009-12-17 Thread Steve Bennett
On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 12:15 AM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.comwrote: Don't tag it until your feature request to update mapnik's style sheet is put into production... That's completely at odds with standard OSM advice: tag however you want. So file a feature request against mapnik's

Re: [OSM-talk] Suggestion: fallback tag

2009-12-17 Thread Steve Bennett
On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 12:47 AM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.comwrote: You only want to tag stuff that renders, so update the render style sheet then tag it, if you don't care about it rendering first just tag it but your comments are specifically about wanting them to render first.

Re: [OSM-talk] Suggestion: fallback tag

2009-12-17 Thread Steve Bennett
On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 1:47 AM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.comwrote: Or if he were really serious about this he'd come up with a suitable Was this mailing list always like this? I don't get it. I make a sincere suggestion for a tag that I think would be useful, and just look at the

Re: [OSM-talk] openmaps.eu

2009-12-17 Thread Steve Bennett
On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 12:35 AM, Nick Whitelegg nick.whitel...@solent.ac.uk wrote: In any case, we are supposed to be open. Trying to trademark names merely similar to our own is one of the most closed, monopolistic actions that it's possible to take. The idea of OSM is to collect and make

Re: [OSM-talk] Suggestion: fallback tag

2009-12-17 Thread Steve Bennett
First, thanks for the thoughtful replies, everyone. I'll reply to all in one email. It is just that I dont see your solution as a scalable one What's not scalable about it - presumably that you have to tag a fall back every time you use the tag? What's an alternative that's more scalable, for

Re: [OSM-talk] Suggestion: fallback tag

2009-12-17 Thread Steve Bennett
On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 6:16 AM, Tobias Knerr o...@tobias-knerr.de wrote: that, and that would be appropriate for reserves, too. But some other renderer might write park all over the area or do something else that makes the rendering completely inappropriate for the feature. What if I use

Re: [OSM-talk] Countering Google's propaganda

2009-12-17 Thread Steve Bennett
On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 4:53 AM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.comwrote: 2009/12/18 Kevin Peat ke...@kevinpeat.com: If it is because of the license then we should take the opportunity to make sure our new license is friendly to these kind of applications and uses as what is the point

Re: [OSM-talk] Countering Google's propaganda

2009-12-17 Thread Steve Bennett
On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 2:43 PM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.comwrote: That is one aspect of maps, but not the only aspect. The real worth is in the data, by hoarding they limit what you can do with the information underlying the tiles. Uh...you're preaching to the choir, dude. Of

Re: [OSM-talk] openmaps.eu

2009-12-17 Thread Steve Bennett
On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 1:06 PM, Erik Lundin e...@lists.lun.nu wrote: Yeah! Maybe we have to increase our efforts to announce that we exist? I joined OSM in May 2008, but would have done it earlier if I had found out about it before. I would have joined a long time ago if I had known that

Re: [OSM-talk] Countering Google's propaganda

2009-12-17 Thread Steve Bennett
On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 3:00 PM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.comwrote: You said they gave it away for free, but in the process your privacy is being eroded, mind you people give their passwords away for pens so most people probably will never understand or care about the consequences

Re: [OSM-talk] Countering Google's propaganda

2009-12-17 Thread Steve Bennett
On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 3:34 PM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.comwrote: list of break through technologies. If I had to put a number on it it'd be about a 2 or 3 out of 10, the map data itself is obviously a 10 because once you have that you can do many many more things with Ok, that

Re: [OSM-talk] Contribution graph

2009-12-17 Thread Steve Bennett
On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 12:58 PM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.comwrote: I've pondered about this before but I came to the conclusion that mapping is a little different than adding knowledge to a wiki. You can always add map details by travelling about, or based on new sets of data

Re: [OSM-talk] openmaps.eu

2009-12-17 Thread Steve Bennett
On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 3:04 PM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.comwrote: since working this out have you tried to improve the documentation that would have made it easier for you? I think I made one or two tiny changes. Wasn't game to make any major changes at that stage, though I have

Re: [OSM-talk] Contribution graph

2009-12-17 Thread Steve Bennett
On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 4:02 PM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.comwrote: There would come a point where you will run out of things to learn/care about, or are you planning to become so knowledgable on subjects that you would specilise in things to write out information to the nth degree?

Re: [talk-au] Roundabouts and routing

2009-12-17 Thread Steve Bennett
On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 7:59 AM, morb@beagle.com.au wrote: In the first case I have edited the entry, exit and roundabout as meeting at exactly one node. IMHO this represents reality and if the router can't handle it then the router should be upgraded to suit (or its

Re: [talk-au] Roundabouts and routing

2009-12-17 Thread Steve Bennett
On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 2:44 PM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.comwrote: 2009/12/18 Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com: I'm sorry, but this just doesn't even look close to me. I can imagine ambiguous circumstances, but this isn't one. This is analogous to the We aren't making perfect

Re: [talk-au] Roundabouts and routing

2009-12-17 Thread Steve Bennett
On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 3:06 PM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.comwrote: personally I don't see anything wrong with mapping roundabouts how I have in the past even though it's implied by the wiki to do it that way. Do you personally see anything wrong with different people mapping the

Re: [talk-au] Roundabouts and routing

2009-12-17 Thread Steve Bennett
On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 3:37 PM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.comwrote: That's the problem in this case, I didn't think what I was doing was wrong, still don't really because the issue isn't with the map data it's with how the routing software is interpreting it. Ok, so pretty much as

Re: [talk-au] Roundabouts and routing

2009-12-17 Thread Steve Bennett
On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 3:52 PM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.comwrote: I missed the comment about voting, it's mostly a pointless exercise, current estimates claim almost 200,000 users, and the current voting system suggest about 15 votes for a proposal, does seem like a very good

Re: [OSM-talk] OSM Wiki Search does not work

2009-12-16 Thread Steve Bennett
On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 2:22 PM, Tirkon tirko...@yahoo.de wrote: Hello, the OSM-Wiki Search does not work. E.g. a search (all options activated) for ostfriesland does not find this page: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Andre68 allthough the word Ostfriesland is present there.

Re: [talk-au] Australia BP service station dataset - suitable for bulk import?

2009-12-16 Thread Steve Bennett
On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 10:57 PM, Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com wrote: To be a complete hypocrit, I could check it out on my way to work tomorrow. If driving, I drive straight past it, if riding, I pass within a few blocks. Then again, had a quick look with streetview, looks like BPs

Re: [talk-au] Intro video to OSM in Australia

2009-12-16 Thread Steve Bennett
On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 7:46 PM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.comwrote: 2009/12/16 John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com: Well the first part is mostly off-road type enthusiests that could help improve the amount of GPX data available to make maps. Actual another demographic that might

Re: [talk-au] Intro video to OSM in Australia

2009-12-16 Thread Steve Bennett
On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 1:21 PM, Chris Barham cbar...@pobox.com wrote: On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 12:00 PM, Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.comwrote: Has anyone on this list had any success approaching groups to encourage them to join? Their club magazine, Checkpoint, is also looking

Re: [OSM-talk] Ditches

2009-12-15 Thread Steve Bennett
On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 8:07 PM, Mike Harris mik...@googlemail.com wrote: Layers are only there to explain the relative heights of things when they meet. No harm will result from marking the ditch as layer -1. See my separate reply - I disagree - what happens when the level=-1 ditch runs

Re: [OSM-talk] Ditches

2009-12-15 Thread Steve Bennett
On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 11:16 PM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: It's not a hack, it's an easy way to order some elements when rendering so things look right. A hack would be using the layer tag to alter the rendering order to make things look better if the rendering config is

Re: [OSM-talk] Ditches

2009-12-15 Thread Steve Bennett
On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 11:36 PM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: Without layer information you'd be guessing if the road goes over the water or the water goes over the road, or the water and road are at the same level. You could come up with sane defaults, That's the right thing

Re: [OSM-talk] Ditches

2009-12-15 Thread Steve Bennett
On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 11:36 PM, Jukka Rahkonen jukka.rahko...@mmmtike.fi wrote: Of course I do not place nodes at the road-ditch intersections. But we have this kind of intersections where a ditch is goind under a road through a concrete or plastic pipe approximately every fine hundred

Re: [OSM-talk] Ditches

2009-12-15 Thread Steve Bennett
On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 12:10 AM, Ian Dees ian.d...@gmail.com wrote: Although nothing is required in OSM, the layer tag always helps on a bridge because you could have multiple bridges passing each other (as in a highway interchange). In that case, the layer tag specifies at what layer in the

Re: [OSM-talk] Ditches

2009-12-15 Thread Steve Bennett
On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 12:25 AM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: 2009/12/15 Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com: You could come up with sane defaults, That's the right thing to do. Right is a preconceived notion, in this case it's the lazy thing to do, not nessicarily the right

Re: [OSM-talk] Ditches

2009-12-15 Thread Steve Bennett
On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 12:25 AM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: 2009/12/15 Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com: Um, the layer tag helps specifically *only* in cases with bridges over bridges...which are exceedingly rare. So I would dispute your premise that the layer tag always

Re: [OSM-talk] Ditches

2009-12-15 Thread Steve Bennett
On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 12:54 AM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: 2009/12/15 Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com: Carefully talking out what these sane defaults are, documenting, and using them is not the lazy thing to do. You are assuming people are going to go to lengths to read

Re: [OSM-talk] Ditches

2009-12-15 Thread Steve Bennett
Alight, I've had enough of this. Let's try and resolve the should layer tags be required at the right place: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Key:layer#Is_layer_required_for_bridges.2C_tunnels.2C_and_waterways.3F Steve ___ talk mailing list

Re: [OSM-talk] Ditches

2009-12-15 Thread Steve Bennett
On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 2:11 AM, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote: On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 10:03 AM, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote: barrier=drainpipe (as an access node), access=yes? I guess barrier=culvert would be the more general and international term? Um, a culvert isn't a barrier, by

Re: [OSM-talk] Ditches

2009-12-15 Thread Steve Bennett
On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 2:03 AM, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote: which I don't see as a bridge.  I could go with tunnel=yes on the ditch, but it's really not a ditch at all at the point it passes under the road. Before the road: waterway=drain, barrier=ditch Under the road: waterway=drain,

Re: [OSM-talk] Ditches

2009-12-15 Thread Steve Bennett
On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 2:53 AM, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote: Well, my only other alternatives are to screw up the geometry (there's no gap between the edge of the road and the edge of the tunnel) or to map the road as an area. Not seeing the problem. --):=|==:(--- -

Re: [talk-au] Sports Clubs

2009-12-15 Thread Steve Bennett
Ok, so who's going to write up a description of licensed_club, so we can ram through a proposal? Steve ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au

Re: [talk-au] Australia BP service station dataset - suitable for bulk import?

2009-12-15 Thread Steve Bennett
On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 7:19 PM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: BP have this location on their site: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/585128133 Except when you view it with NearMap the site has been leveled, not sure if BP is rebuilding it or what To be a complete

Re: [talk-au] Sports Clubs

2009-12-15 Thread Steve Bennett
On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 11:12 PM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: 2009/12/15 Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com: Ok, so who's going to write up a description of licensed_club, so we can ram through a proposal? Which is mostly a pointless exercise in game theory. Just document

Re: [OSM-talk] Dual/Multiple licencing

2009-12-14 Thread Steve Bennett
On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 10:45 PM, Peter Childs pchi...@bcs.org wrote: CCbySA says you must attribute where it came from, ODbl make no such demand. So by following ODbl you break CCbySA. and the law is about black and white not shades of grey. Well, it's a bit more subtle than that, really.

Re: [OSM-talk] Why the BSD vs GPL debate is irrelevant to OSM

2009-12-14 Thread Steve Bennett
On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 11:37 PM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: What is being lost though? When Google sucks up data what's being lost is supporting the greater good, Google just sucks up all the data they can for their own good. To be fair to google, I've had a lot of fun with

Re: [OSM-talk] Ditches

2009-12-14 Thread Steve Bennett
On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 1:31 PM, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote: In a park is a ditch.  There is a very small bridge going over the ditch. I've tagged the ditch with barrier=ditch.  Should the ditch be layer=-1? Even though the park is layer=0? Layers are only there to explain the relative

Re: [OSM-talk] Dual/Multiple licencing

2009-12-14 Thread Steve Bennett
On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 1:39 PM, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote: Well, this particular thread was asking Why can't we run both [CC-BY-SA and the ODbL] indefinitely?  I gave one answer.  Because the terms of CC-BY-SA disallow it. Aren't you misreading the terms? Say there is user A, with work W,

Re: [OSM-talk] Dual/Multiple licencing

2009-12-14 Thread Steve Bennett
On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 2:12 PM, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote: Read Jacobsen v. Katzer, and the commentary on it, and then get back to us. Wasn't there some case where one company sued another for not making source code available as required? Also, what jurisdiction are you referring to there?

Re: [OSM-talk] Ditches

2009-12-14 Thread Steve Bennett
On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 2:36 PM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: I tend to mark bridges as layer=1 and anything at ground level I don't set a layer tag, which seems the most logical to me since ditches aren't under the ground etc. The one benefit of marking waterways layer=-1

Re: [OSM-talk] Ditches

2009-12-14 Thread Steve Bennett
On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 2:47 PM, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote: I tend to agree with you, but: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Image:IMG_6783.JPG Are both of those bridges layer=1?  At least the road one, and arguably both, are effectively at ground level. Right now I have the ditch with

Re: [talk-au] Sports Clubs

2009-12-14 Thread Steve Bennett
On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 7:20 PM, James Livingston doc...@mac.com wrote: They're definitely not a QLD thing, but I think they are a very Australian thing. As well as sports clubs, you have the Surf Life Saving Clubs, RSLs and so on. Although a lot only have one bar and restaurant, there are a

Re: [talk-au] Sports Clubs

2009-12-14 Thread Steve Bennett
On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 8:03 PM, James Livingston doc...@mac.com wrote: I'm sure that there was a tag for the first, although I can't find it now. Something like leisure=club_rooms or similar, which related to a sporting group but wasn't necessarily where the sports themselves were played,

Re: [talk-au] Sports Clubs

2009-12-14 Thread Steve Bennett
On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 9:42 PM, Sam Couter s...@couter.id.au wrote: Pub is short for public house and is a hotel, a place where anyone can get a meal, a drink and a room. Bars don't have rooms. That's a historical definition that I doubt many people would appreciate these days. In the ACT, a

Re: [talk-au] Sports Clubs

2009-12-14 Thread Steve Bennett
On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 10:44 PM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: Dunno about metro areas, but most pubs in rural areas will still rent rooms. Yep, but we're concerned with the wiki definition of the pub tag, not what pub means in general. And secondly, we're not concerned with the

Re: [talk-au] Sports Clubs

2009-12-14 Thread Steve Bennett
On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 10:58 PM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: As for tag naming amenity=member_club Which is also a little vague, but it is a valid description, would just need to be documented properly. Checking on wikipedia there is a similar notion in NZ, at least in

Re: [talk-au] Sports Clubs

2009-12-14 Thread Steve Bennett
On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 11:05 PM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: 2009/12/14 Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com: Similar organisations exist in many countries, you might as well have a specific tag for them, like servicemens_club or something. The definition could be A venue

Re: [talk-au] Sports Clubs

2009-12-14 Thread Steve Bennett
On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 7:36 AM, Roy Wallace waldo000...@gmail.com wrote: For example, take a close look at the proposed definition of member_club - is it in the form of if A and B and C, it's a member_club? If so, isn't it a better solution to *tag* A and B and C? There's no need to create

Re: [talk-au] Sports Clubs

2009-12-14 Thread Steve Bennett
On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 8:19 AM, Elizabeth Dodd ed...@billiau.net wrote: Well now it's morning, I'm sure the correct term is licensed club eg http://www.clubssa.com.au/ so amenity=licensed_club seems like a good idea to me then add in the pokies, restaurants, etc in sub tags I support this.

Re: [talk-au] Using Nearmap with JOSM

2009-12-14 Thread Steve Bennett
On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 1:55 AM, Dieter diete...@makemetheking.com wrote: On 09/12/2009, Steve Bennet wrote: Does the validator plugin let you flag mistakes as ok, so that other people don't stumble upon them? You don't need to, as the checks are performed on live data. In the keep right!

Re: [talk-au] Sports Clubs

2009-12-14 Thread Steve Bennett
On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 11:50 AM, Liz ed...@billiau.net wrote: I favour licenced_club because of the word association with liquor licence and I am looking for another tag to replace amenity=pub that I have been using and isn't the best descriptor I like it too. I wouldn't worry about trying to

Re: [talk-au] Sports Clubs

2009-12-14 Thread Steve Bennett
On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 1:46 PM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: Or particular ethnic background etc etc etc. Example? Steve ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au

Re: [talk-au] Using Nearmap with JOSM

2009-12-14 Thread Steve Bennett
On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 1:11 PM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: 2009/12/15 Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com: I meant, if the error is not actually an error (ie, a false positive), can you flag it like you can in KeepRight? You can tell the plugin to ignore anything from a single

Re: [talk-au] Sports Clubs

2009-12-14 Thread Steve Bennett
On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 2:04 PM, John Henderson snow...@gmx.com wrote: www.irishclub.com.au Yep, cool, it says it's run by an incorporated association. (10,000 members of the canberra irish club...whee!) Steve ___ Talk-au mailing list

Re: [talk-au] Sports Clubs

2009-12-14 Thread Steve Bennett
On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 2:25 PM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: 2009/12/15 Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com: Yep, cool, it says it's run by an incorporated association. That usually means not-for-profit organisation... Um, exactly. Steve

Re: [OSM-talk] When will the next mapnik coastline update be?

2009-12-13 Thread Steve Bennett
On Sun, Dec 13, 2009 at 11:08 PM, Jon Burgess jburgess...@googlemail.com wrote: I ran the coastcheck utility last night to update the coastline shapefiles on the main Mapnik layer. Sweet, thanks. The updates will not automatically appear on the map unless the tiles is re-rendered due to

Re: [talk-au] [Tagging] Tagging highway=cycleway without explicit knowledge of the law?

2009-12-13 Thread Steve Bennett
On Sun, Dec 13, 2009 at 9:37 AM, Roy Wallace waldo000...@gmail.com wrote: One question, though, for Australian shared path, shouldn't this be: highway=cycleway, bicycle=designated, foot=designated rather than highway=footway, foot=yes, bicycle=yes I've updated the wiki page to this. I

Re: [talk-au] Australian Cycleways

2009-12-13 Thread Steve Bennett
On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 8:44 AM, Roy Wallace waldo000...@gmail.com wrote: And can I again please direct you to: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Consolidation_footway_cycleway_path If you want to find a resolution to the footway/cycleway/path thing, please contribute your thoughts there.

Re: [talk-au] [Tagging] Tagging highway=cycleway without explicit knowledge of the law?

2009-12-13 Thread Steve Bennett
On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 6:59 AM, Elizabeth Dodd ed...@billiau.net wrote: I'm thinking that a cycleway is a place *designed* to ride bikes Yep. Regardless of whether it has signage. Look at this example:

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