[talk-ph] Micro Mapping Party in Ortigas-Mandaluyong on May 22
Hi guys, I really don't think we could push through with the Corregidor Mapping Party. Planning was mostly nonexistent and I don't think many people are willing to spend a large amount of money for the ferry trip and the possible overnight stay in the hotel on Corregidor. Let's postpone that island for a while. In the meantime, I suggest we tackle parts of Metro Manila that are still incomplete: 1. Mandaluyong-Shaw area: http://sautter.com/map/?zoom=17lat=14.58246lon=121.04721layers=B0TF This area of Mandaluyong is still missing a lot of streets because they are covered by clouds in the Yahoo satellite imagery. 2. Ortigas CBD: http://sautter.com/map/?zoom=17lat=14.58448lon=121.05964layers=B0TF In contrast to the Makati CBD, Ortigas is still pretty blank in its building coverage. 3. Metrowalk-Ortigas Home Depot: http://sautter.com/map/?zoom=17lat=14.58647lon=121.06578layers=B0TF Yahoo's satellite imagery in this area predates the large retail construction here so it would be nice if we can map this new development. One nice thing about this is that these three areas are near each other and since this is Ortigas, meeting up would be easier. And after the on-the-field surveying, let's meet up after and have that newbies tutorial session that Carlos suggested. What do you guys think? :-) Eugene ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] Proposed human readable contributor terms
Hi, Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason wrote: I've created a proposed version of the human readable contributor terms on the wiki: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Open_Database_License/Contributor_Terms/Human_readable The wording can doubtless be improved (please do so!), and maybe there's something more to cover. Let's try to keep it short though. I think the wording is ok, but I would advise against translating it. I believe that presenting a crowdsource-translated summary above an English legalese could be interpreted as misleading the users. Personally, I think that translations are a problem in many places in OSM. Stuff is translated and then starts to rot because whoever did the translation goes hunting for the next non-translated bit. This is just the same as with imports; the translations create documents that nobody cares about, that do not have a community to support them. There seem to be some areas where it works, but I have the impression that triumphantly adding a 23rd language to some page on the Wiki does not, overall, improve quality. Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Proposed human readable contributor terms
On Fri, May 14, 2010 at 4:19 PM, Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason ava...@gmail.comwrote: I've created a proposed version of the human readable contributor terms on the wiki: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Open_Database_License/Contributor_Terms/Human_readable Interesting. I just noticed the contents are going to be DbCL (effectively, public domain). I guess that means the entire database will be public domain in places (like the US) which don't have a separate database right. Cool. ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Proposed human readable contributor terms
On Fri, May 14, 2010 at 21:36, Tom Hughes t...@compton.nu wrote: On 14/05/10 21:19, Ęvar Arnfjörš Bjarmason wrote: I've created a proposed version of the human readable contributor terms on the wiki: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Open_Database_License/Contributor_Terms/Human_readable The wording can doubtless be improved (please do so!), and maybe there's something more to cover. Let's try to keep it short though. The current wording appears to have been written in a way that is aimed at existing contributors rathera than new contributors, who are the only people being shown the terms currently. Patches welcome! Seriously, I'm not a native speaker and the text can be improved in lots of little (and big) ways. The intent with the OpenStreetMap is now moving away part was to provide some summary, but maybe that's not necessary. New users don't need to know that [...] that attribution is handled differently [...]. The attribution part is there because of section #4 of the contributor terms: 4. At Your or the copyright holder’s option, OSMF agrees to attribute You or the copyright holder. A mechanism will be provided, currently a web page http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Attribution They apply whether you're a new user or not. I don't see any reason why new users would care less about attribution than users that have signed up in the past. ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Custom paper map templates
Hi thanks, On Thu, May 13, 2010 at 10:10 PM, Graham Jones grahamjones...@googlemail.com wrote: Sam, It is probably worth a look at http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM_on_Paper if you haven't seen it. http://www.ancalime.de/gutau.html Seems to be a little closer, but it would just need an OpenOffice Draw file. (so then i can easily move the boxes around), edit icons and change labels. This is more of the creative side, where software cant make that happen. (the reason why, is that today i passed somone who was looking at a map, and it 'could' have used OSM, only the city outline was missing, (hopefully we'll get that in this year), but it was just the page layout that was different. Many different printable maps can be made with the same basic layout. (ie. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Compass_Rose#compass-rose-basic-thin-letters) having them all in 1 Oo Draw template file. MapOsMatic http://www.maposmatic.org produces very nice output with a street index, but you can not alter the output from the default style. Townguidehttp://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/TownGuideis similar but adds selectable points of interest, but its output resolution is not as high, so the maps do not look as nice. However one of this year's Google Summer of Code projectshttp://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/2010/AcceptedProjectsis looking at taking the best aspects of these projects to improve it and add more features. (ie,. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/2010/AcceptedProjects/EasyPrintableMaps) http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OpenPaperMaps Good luck on those projects, i hope they chose to share what they make :) Regards Cool, That gives me some ideas, and looks like http://www.ancalime.de/gutau.html is ccBYsa, so that helps too. Thanks, Sam Graham On 13 May 2010 22:53, Sam Vekemans acrosscanadatra...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all, I'm just wondering who all is working on making custom map templates? Walking-papers.org are great, but is only 1 style. I'm making Oo Draw files that just have the page layout, and all the basic map info, (legend, scale, title, directory, copyright line, border. # markers) The Mapgen.pl is for getting the osm map details out into SVG. So the ideas is that Oo is simpler to use than Inkscape, where simple 'prntScrn' can be done, where the monitor resolution is greater or equal to the actual page size. The purpose is to be able to print out free maps and give to any place that will make it available. So im looking for/making templates for cyclists passing through town/ walkers looking for tourist attractions / pub 'inspectors' looking for pubs. And many other templates, were its easy to move the legend around and draw arrows add in custom place markers. Is there a wiki page that organizes this info around? Thanks, Sam -- Twitter: @Acrosscanada Blogs: http://acrosscanadatrails.posterous.com/ http://Acrosscanadatrails.blogspot.com Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/sam.vekemans Skype: samvekemans OpenStreetMap IRC: http://irc.openstreetmap.org @Acrosscanadatrails ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- Dr. Graham Jones Hartlepool, UK email: grahamjones...@gmail.com ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Custom paper map templates
Hi Sam, Sorry, I think I missed the point of your question - I thought you wanted something automatic to save having to move things manually. When I have just wanted a quick map with a few additions I have just used osmarender and inkscape (I actually use the perl version of osmrender because it seems to work more quickly for me). I think I turned the osmarender SVG file into a png 'canvas' to draw on. Can OpenOffice not read the SVG files to let you do the same? Graham. On 14 May 2010 07:09, Sam Vekemans acrosscanadatra...@gmail.com wrote: Hi thanks, On Thu, May 13, 2010 at 10:10 PM, Graham Jones grahamjones...@googlemail.com wrote: Sam, It is probably worth a look at http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM_on_Paper if you haven't seen it. http://www.ancalime.de/gutau.html Seems to be a little closer, but it would just need an OpenOffice Draw file. (so then i can easily move the boxes around), edit icons and change labels. This is more of the creative side, where software cant make that happen. (the reason why, is that today i passed somone who was looking at a map, and it 'could' have used OSM, only the city outline was missing, (hopefully we'll get that in this year), but it was just the page layout that was different. Many different printable maps can be made with the same basic layout. (ie. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Compass_Rose#compass-rose-basic-thin-letters) having them all in 1 Oo Draw template file. MapOsMatic http://www.maposmatic.org produces very nice output with a street index, but you can not alter the output from the default style. Townguidehttp://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/TownGuideis similar but adds selectable points of interest, but its output resolution is not as high, so the maps do not look as nice. However one of this year's Google Summer of Code projectshttp://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/2010/AcceptedProjectsis looking at taking the best aspects of these projects to improve it and add more features. (ie,. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/2010/AcceptedProjects/EasyPrintableMaps) http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OpenPaperMaps Good luck on those projects, i hope they chose to share what they make :) Regards Cool, That gives me some ideas, and looks like http://www.ancalime.de/gutau.html is ccBYsa, so that helps too. Thanks, Sam Graham On 13 May 2010 22:53, Sam Vekemans acrosscanadatra...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all, I'm just wondering who all is working on making custom map templates? Walking-papers.org are great, but is only 1 style. I'm making Oo Draw files that just have the page layout, and all the basic map info, (legend, scale, title, directory, copyright line, border. # markers) The Mapgen.pl is for getting the osm map details out into SVG. So the ideas is that Oo is simpler to use than Inkscape, where simple 'prntScrn' can be done, where the monitor resolution is greater or equal to the actual page size. The purpose is to be able to print out free maps and give to any place that will make it available. So im looking for/making templates for cyclists passing through town/ walkers looking for tourist attractions / pub 'inspectors' looking for pubs. And many other templates, were its easy to move the legend around and draw arrows add in custom place markers. Is there a wiki page that organizes this info around? Thanks, Sam -- Twitter: @Acrosscanada Blogs: http://acrosscanadatrails.posterous.com/ http://Acrosscanadatrails.blogspot.com Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/sam.vekemans Skype: samvekemans OpenStreetMap IRC: http://irc.openstreetmap.org @Acrosscanadatrails ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- Dr. Graham Jones Hartlepool, UK email: grahamjones...@gmail.com -- Dr. Graham Jones Hartlepool, UK email: grahamjones...@gmail.com ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Help to import Rio de Janeiro city data to OSM - misaligned shapefiles
El 14/05/2010 5:30, Arlindo Pereira escribió: [...] using Iván's ogr2osm.py [1] and it worked out pretty well. Oi! I'm glad my software is useful. Remember that ogr2osm is beerware, though :-) However, the tracks are misaligned with the tracks I already have collected with GPS Yeah, it usually happens with mid-1900s datums. Here in Spain, data is shifted 60 to 150 meters when reprojecting from European Datum 1950 (A.K.A. ED50). Your data is based on the 1969 South American ellipsoid, so I'd expect a similar shift. Any ideas? I don't think that the government data is misaligned like that. You're wrong: it is. It all comes down to which reference system you use. Unfortunately, you'll need two years of geodetics classes in a university to have a full understanding of the issue. I thought about creating a shell script to add/subtract the lat/lon numbers on all nodes, but maybe someone would come out with a magical conversion that would work out perfectly :) That magical conversion is called a Proj.4 string. Instead of letting ogr2osm guess the projection, you can specify all of its parameters, including a manual shift on the x, y and z axis. I do suggest you get in touch with some local expert in geodesy. They will probably have faced this problem before (SAD69 - WGS84), and will tell you the best course of action (a fixed shift, a grid shift based on a nadgrids file, etc). BTW, try ogr2osm -e 29183 - or ask someone about reprojecting from EPSG:29183 to EPSG:4326. 29183 means SAD69 in UTM 23S, 4326 means WGS84 in lat-lon. A gente se ve, -- Iván Sánchez Ortega i...@sanchezortega.es ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] new logo
Matt Amos wrote: as a preface, some thoughts i had a while ago on the OSM logo http://www.asklater.com/matt/wordpress/2006/05/infamy/ On Thu, May 13, 2010 at 6:14 PM, Robert Martinez m...@mray.de wrote: having a real map as part of the logo offers some nice opportunities indeed! But there is a number of inherent problems with actual map data inside the logo, which is why I discarded any of my designs containing it: indeed, but i'm of the opinion that a logo should try to represent what the project is about. maps are surely the most commonly recognised output of geodata, although they do have problems. I absolutely agree here. I chose to avoid geodata as part of the logo for various reasons, but not because I want to avoid representation. It just does not work inside a logo - that's my conclusion. In my opinion a logo has to reduce the amount of representation to the absolute essence in order to work right. If you are missing the geodata - what about the community aspect to the project? is it less impoprtant? There are tons of things that should be represented, too (maybe even harder to integrate than geodata). I chose to stick to the basic aspect of marking things on a map - in order to find what you want, and don't expect from every designer to go for the same approach. - as Steve said already - there is too much going on inside there. which (and i've pointed this out several times to steve, but he seems to have forgotten) can be elided at lower levels of detail. You always want to avoid having different logos for different scales. When necessary you sometimes have to do so - but it is a hard decision, and if some meaningful content of your logo gets lost that way you really have a problem: If the details in question can dissapear there is no good reason to have them in the first place. - then there is the issue with recognition, almost nobody would recognize certain elements clearly (as well as a certain outline) - scaling makes it impossible to retain the nice details you want to apply to the logo this is a problem for any logo and, as above, it's easy to remove the fine details and enhance the large-scale details when down-scaling. it's also easy to reduce the colour depth and introduce colour themes while keeping the recognisable source elements intact. e.g: http://www.asklater.com/matt/mag_map_unbusy_reallylowcolour.png in my opinion OSM doesn't need a new logo, so much as it needs an improved logo! :-) cheers, matt In my eyes improving means remaking. OSM needs a new logo! I guess we just disagree here :P cheers, Robert ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] new logo
John Smith wrote: don't mind the current logo, it incorporates the fact that there is bits behind the rendering... Isn't that kind of lame in the digital age we live in? :P ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] new logo
Robert, In my opinion a logo has to reduce the amount of representation to the absolute essence in order to work right. [...] I chose to stick to the basic aspect of marking things on a map Marking things on a map is the absolute essence of trivial POI collection projects. There are *lots* of them and your logo would probably work very well for them. OSM however is not about marking things on a map, but rather about making the map in the first place. I don't like your logo because it suggests that we do nothing more than the millions of people who produce Google mashups. It fails to capture the essence of OSM. Bye Frederik ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] new logo
Frederik Ramm wrote: Robert, In my opinion a logo has to reduce the amount of representation to the absolute essence in order to work right. [...] I chose to stick to the basic aspect of marking things on a map Marking things on a map is the absolute essence of trivial POI collection projects. There are *lots* of them and your logo would probably work very well for them. OSM however is not about marking things on a map, but rather about making the map in the first place. I don't like your logo because it suggests that we do nothing more than the millions of people who produce Google mashups. It fails to capture the essence of OSM. Bye Frederik I don't reduce the project I reduce the logo. If only there was a decent way to visualize the process of making a map! Didn't work out for me. Unluckily I don't see how putting a magnifier on 1s and 0s on a map shows any kind of making anything either. Bye Robert ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Quarry or construction?
On Fri, 14 May 2010, Steve Bennett wrote: Can someone offer some tips on how to distinguish a quarry from a construction site? They seem to look pretty similar from the air - lots of dirt and vehicle tracks, sometimes piles of dirt. Eg: http://www.nearmap.com/?ll=-37.946025,145.093174z=16t=hnmd=20100416 (Note, I'm looking for general tips, not a determination on that single instance) Steve curved vehicle tracks suggest quarry presence of straight lines which suggest buildings under construction area with large pooled water with copper-ish discolouration suggests quarry i'd check council minutes for the area and see if you can use a search engine to find what this land is used for Even if you get he street names off another map. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Help to import Rio de Janeiro city data to O SM - misaligned shapefiles
Iván Sánchez Ortega ivan at sanchezortega.es writes: That magical conversion is called a Proj.4 string. Instead of letting ogr2osm guess the projection, you can specify all of its parameters, including a manual shift on the x, y and z axis. Try with +proj=utm +zone=23 +south +ellps=GRS67+towgs84=-66.87,4.37,-38.52 Somebody in the internet has used it before http://www.mundogeo.com.br/forum_mensagem.php?topico=1105 -Jukka Rahkonen- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Help to import Rio de Janeiro city data to OSM - misaligned shapefiles
El 14/05/2010 12:06, Jukka Rahkonen escribió: Try with +proj=utm +zone=23 +south +ellps=GRS67+towgs84=-66.87,4.37,-38.52 Somebody in the internet has used it before http://www.mundogeo.com.br/forum_mensagem.php?topico=1105 And the way to use it in ogr2osm should be something like: python ogr2osm -p +proj=utm +zone=23 +south +ellps=GRS67 +towgs84=-66.87,4.37,-38.52 ciclovias.shp That will override the projection information contained in the shapefile's .prj file. -- Iván Sánchez Ortega i...@sanchezortega.es ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] new logo
Hi, Robert Martinez wrote: Unluckily I don't see how putting a magnifier on 1s and 0s on a map shows any kind of making anything either. Yes but the existing logo is cryptic enough not to make people think yeah, flagging POIs on a map, lots of people do that. Plus, the old logo didn't claim that it was reducing the amount of representation to the absolute essence in order to work right and then choose the wrong essence. If the logo is to be changed then it would have to be for something which is a big improvement. Your logo may work from a graphic designer's point of view put it has no heart nor soul. For me, using your logo would not be any different from simply downloading something that looks somewhat like a map from a clipart gallery and use that. Bye Frederik ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] new logo
On Fri, 14 May 2010, Robert Martinez wrote: John Smith wrote: don't mind the current logo, it incorporates the fact that there is bits behind the rendering... Isn't that kind of lame in the digital age we live in? :P looks better than those flag things on the golf course, which is what i thought the new proposal resembled ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Villain?
Hello, I came to the OSM project to help create a better map of the world, not to be insulted. Please remove the page http://matt.dev.openstreetmap.org/dupe_nodes/heroes.html immediately. Thanks in advance, N. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] new logo
I would be interested to do so! Looks like I'll be near Barcelona at that time but the deadline for submitting talks is over. Maybe there are still free slots for a lighting Talk SteveC wrote: On May 13, 2010, at 1:50 PM, Robert Martinez wrote: What exactly would you expect to be the talk about? Explain in detail why you feel the logo needs help using examples, and show how you think it can be improved / replaced. On 05/13/2010 05:46 PM, SteveC wrote: this could be a good SOTM talk too? On May 13, 2010, at 9:32 AM, Robert Martinez wrote: Hello OpenStreetMappers, I would love to offer a special contribution to the project: a new logo! I hope the community (you) will give me some feedback and possibly help me to get the launch done. If there is any hoop to jump through let me know. If there has to be a competition, consider this my contribution. If I don't reach the right people via this mail, let me know. Here is my blogpost: http://freegital.de/osm-logo-proposal Here is the presentation: http://mray.de/sites/default/files/logoproposal_big.html Keep up the great work on this amazing project, and thank you very much for any feedback. Greetings from Ulm, Germany Robert Martinez ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk Yoursc. Steve Yours c. Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Villain?
I came to the OSM project to help create a better map of the world, not to be insulted. Please remove the page http://matt.dev.openstreetmap.org/dupe_nodes/heroes.html immediately. Not only that, but more than one 'hero' belongs in the 'villain' category for blind and ill-considered duplicate elimination, causing a hopeless tangle of map elements which makes proper editing difficult to impossible. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Villain?
El 14/05/2010 14:25, Mike N. escribió: I came to the OSM project to help create a better map of the world, not to be insulted. Please remove the page http://matt.dev.openstreetmap.org/dupe_nodes/heroes.html immediately. Not only that, but more than one 'hero' belongs in the 'villain' category for blind and ill-considered duplicate elimination, causing a hopeless tangle of map elements which makes proper editing difficult to impossible. So what about creating a new, better dupe node count tool? You could use whatever dupe deletion method you'd like, and use fancy wording that doesn't offend anyone. -- Iván Sánchez Ortega i...@sanchezortega.es ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Villain?
Nakor, Nakor wrote: I came to the OSM project to help create a better map of the world, not to be insulted. Please remove the page http://matt.dev.openstreetmap.org/dupe_nodes/heroes.html immediately. The page is helpful and should not be removed. To be less offensive, one could replace the phrase Villains: Users who have created the most duplicate nodes, since the count was started. Boo! by The following users have created the most duplicate nodes since the count was started. If you are on this list, something is seriously wrong with either your software or your workflow, and you should talk to other mappers to help you fix it. Bye Frederik ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Villain?
On 14 May 2010 14:25, Mike N. nice...@att.net wrote: Not only that, but more than one 'hero' belongs in the 'villain' category for blind and ill-considered duplicate elimination, causing a hopeless tangle of map elements which makes proper editing difficult to impossible. At least there are no duplicates on the heroes / villains lists individually :) I like the list to be there. I wonder though if your hero points can subtract from your villain points. Cheers, a villain ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Quarry or construction?
Of course, a large water-filled hole, without vehicles around it, describes both an inactive quarry and an inactive large-scale building site. Given the current state of the world's economy, there are a certain number of the latter around, because the developer went broke. --Original Message-- From: Liz Sender: talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org To: OpenStreetMap talk mailing list Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Quarry or construction? Sent: May 14, 2010 4:58 AM On Fri, 14 May 2010, Steve Bennett wrote: Can someone offer some tips on how to distinguish a quarry from a construction site? They seem to look pretty similar from the air - lots of dirt and vehicle tracks, sometimes piles of dirt. Eg: http://www.nearmap.com/?ll=-37.946025,145.093174z=16t=hnmd=20100416 (Note, I'm looking for general tips, not a determination on that single instance) Steve curved vehicle tracks suggest quarry presence of straight lines which suggest buildings under construction area with large pooled water with copper-ish discolouration suggests quarry i'd check council minutes for the area and see if you can use a search engine to find what this land is used for Even if you get he street names off another map. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Villain?
On 5/14/2010 8:31 AM, Frederik Ramm wrote: The following users have created the most duplicate nodes since the count was started. If you are on this list, something is seriously wrong with either your software or your workflow, and you should talk to other mappers to help you fix it. I take you to the word. Can you please help me finding out what in the software I use (JOSM) and/or my workflow is seriously wrong? Thanks in advance, N. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Villain?
Frederik Ramm wrote: Nakor wrote: I came to the OSM project to help create a better map of the world, not to be insulted. Please remove the page http://matt.dev.openstreetmap.org/dupe_nodes/heroes.html immediately. The page is helpful and should not be removed. To be less offensive, one could replace the phrase Villains: Users who have created the most duplicate nodes, since the count was started. Boo! by The following users have created the most duplicate nodes since the count was started. If you are on this list, something is seriously wrong with either your software or your workflow, and you should talk to other mappers to help you fix it. It's not so simple. This changeset: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/4300452 made me a villain when I selectively undid a so-called hero's indiscriminate joining of highways to boundaries, power lines, and pipelines: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/4175719 . Of course it was useless, since another hero later came along and screwed it up again: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/4385668 (Apparently I'm now a hero - maybe I should do another unjoining so I can be on both lists.) ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Villain?
It seems I'm a villain too although it's news to me. Thinking about it, it must be from copying and pasting some OS VectorMap polygons between .osm layers in JOSM over the last couple of weeks. JOSM seems to create the nodes for the polygon and then create them again with the way if that makes any sense. If that is the case then maybe the JOSM guys could look into it as it wasn't obvious to me at least that this was happening. Kevin On 14 May 2010 14:18, Nathan Edgars II nerou...@gmail.com wrote: Frederik Ramm wrote: Nakor wrote: I came to the OSM project to help create a better map of the world, not to be insulted. Please remove the page http://matt.dev.openstreetmap.org/dupe_nodes/heroes.html immediately. The page is helpful and should not be removed. To be less offensive, one could replace the phrase Villains: Users who have created the most duplicate nodes, since the count was started. Boo! by The following users have created the most duplicate nodes since the count was started. If you are on this list, something is seriously wrong with either your software or your workflow, and you should talk to other mappers to help you fix it. It's not so simple. This changeset: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/4300452 made me a villain when I selectively undid a so-called hero's indiscriminate joining of highways to boundaries, power lines, and pipelines: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/4175719 . Of course it was useless, since another hero later came along and screwed it up again: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/4385668 (Apparently I'm now a hero - maybe I should do another unjoining so I can be on both lists.) ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Villain?
On Friday 14 May 2010 15:03:25 Nakor wrote: I take you to the word. Can you please help me finding out what in the software I use (JOSM) and/or my workflow is seriously wrong? Not running the Validator plugin frequently enough. It detects, warns, and helps fix duplicated nodes. -- -- Iván Sánchez Ortega i...@sanchezortega.es Aviso: Este e-mail es confidencial y no debería ser usado por nadie que no sea el destinatario original. No se permite la reproducción mediante fotocopia, walkie-talkie, emisora de radioaficionado, satélite, televisión por cable, proyector, señales de humo, código morse, braille, lenguaje de signos, taquigrafía o cualquier otro medio. Bajo ningún concepto debe traducirse al francés este e-mail. Este e-mail no puede ser ridiculizado, parodiado, juzgado en una competición, o leído en voz alta con un acento gracioso llevando un bigote falso y/o cualquier tipo de sombrero, incluyendo pero no limitándose a pañuelos. No inciten ni provoquen a este e-mail. Si está medicándose, puede experimentar nauseas, desorientación, histeria, vómitos, pérdida temporal de la memoria a corto plazo y malestar general al leer este e-mail. Consulte a su médico o farmacéutico antes de leer este e-mail. Todas las modelos descritas en este e-mail son mayores de 18 años. Este e-mail se reserva el derecho de admisión. Si ha recibido este e-mail por error es probablemente porque estaba borracho cuando escribí la dirección del destinatario. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Quarry or construction?
On 14 May 2010 05:32, Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com wrote: Can someone offer some tips on how to distinguish a quarry from a construction site? They seem to look pretty similar from the air - lots of dirt and vehicle tracks, sometimes piles of dirt. Eg: http://www.nearmap.com/?ll=-37.946025,145.093174z=16t=hnmd=20100416 (Note, I'm looking for general tips, not a determination on that single instance) Steve Go down the road to the entrance and read what the signs on the gate say? If that doesn't help, ask the guy in the hard hat who thinks you want directions and are lost. -- Gregory o...@livingwithdragons.com http://www.livingwithdragons.com ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Villain?
Am 14.05.2010 16:02, Kevin Peat: It seems I'm a villain too although it's news to me. Thinking about it, it must be from copying and pasting some OS VectorMap polygons between .osm layers in JOSM over the last couple of weeks. JOSM seems to create the nodes for the polygon and then create them again with the way if that makes any sense. If that is the case then maybe the JOSM guys could look into it as it wasn't obvious to me at least that this was happening. Did you download all existing data in that area and run the validator before uploading your data? This should have told you with a red No entry sign in it's report that you were about to upload duplicate nodes. Claudius ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Flash and open source
Occasionally the subject of Flash and free software comes up here in relation to Potlatch. I would encourage people to sign the petition at http://openplayer.net/ encouraging Adobe to make the Flash Player open source. cheers Richard ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Villain?
Did you download all existing data in that area and run the validator before uploading your data? This should have told you with a red No entry sign in it's report that you were about to upload duplicate nodes. Claudius Most of the time I use the feature to download around my GPS tracks and expect it to download everything. The thing is unfortunately the validator gives a lot of false positives (at least here in the US) and if you blindly merge all nodes you end up stiching together a bridge and the road/river/train track going underneath to name a few. This is due to the way the data imports coming from TIGER use nodes at the same position for a lot of different things. I have effectively being fixing some of those blind merges, as part of other edits, and I do not see why I should be called a villain for this where I actually FIXED data. Thanks, N. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Flash and open source
+1 On 14 May 2010 18:10, Richard Fairhurst rich...@systemed.net wrote: Occasionally the subject of Flash and free software comes up here in relation to Potlatch. I would encourage people to sign the petition at http://openplayer.net/ encouraging Adobe to make the Flash Player open source. cheers Richard ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Help to import Rio de Janeiro city data to OSM - misaligned shapefiles
2010/5/14 Iván Sánchez Ortega i...@sanchezortega.es: Any ideas? I don't think that the government data is misaligned like that. You're wrong: it is. It all comes down to which reference system you use. Unfortunately, you'll need two years of geodetics classes in a university to have a full understanding of the issue. Maybe a full understanding, but the basic understanding is this, originally governments used the centre of the earth as the basis, although not always some mines in Australia used the direction of the vein of ore as north/south even if it ran east/west. Since the advent of satellites spinning round the globe, and more specifically the GPS cluster of satellites, they now use the centre of the mass of the earth. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Villain?
Iván Sánchez Ortega i...@sanchezortega.es writes: On Friday 14 May 2010 15:03:25 Nakor wrote: I take you to the word. Can you please help me finding out what in the software I use (JOSM) and/or my workflow is seriously wrong? Not running the Validator plugin frequently enough. It detects, warns, and helps fix duplicated nodes. And not updating the area first before running the Validator and uploading. An easy way to create duplicate objects with JOSM is to create new objects, save the layer to disk, upload to API and then close JOSM without saving the layer again (because I just saved it and didn't change anything, silly JOSM!). When loading the file again JOSM treats these objects still as new and happily uploads them again at the next opportunity. Aborted uploads can have similar effects when the data was accepted by the server but the server response did not make it back to JOSM. The reason behind all this is that the API server is assigning the IDs for new objects and returns them to the software which in turn needs to update its local data. Matthias ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Villain?
Nathan Edgars II nerou...@gmail.com writes: It's not so simple. This changeset: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/4300452 made me a villain when I selectively undid a so-called hero's indiscriminate joining of highways to boundaries, power lines, and pipelines: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/4175719 . Of course it was useless, since another hero later came along and screwed it up again: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/4385668 (Apparently I'm now a hero - maybe I should do another unjoining so I can be on both lists.) It is probably good practice when disjoining two ways to move one node off to the side a little bit in order to not create duplicate nodes. Matthias ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Help to import Rio de Janeiro city data to OSM - misaligned shapefiles
El día Friday 14 May 2010 19:14:35, John Smith dijo: Since the advent of satellites spinning round the globe, and more specifically the GPS cluster of satellites, they now use the centre of the mass of the earth. Problem is, the center of mass moves along with the continental drift. Have you heard of gravimetrics? You can have lots of fun with it. -- Iván Sánchez Ortega i...@sanchezortega.es Un ordenador no es una televisión ni un microondas: es una herramienta compleja. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Flash and open source
Yes but a problem with Flash is it is a major security hole. It's probably the major source of Malware in Windows at the moment so we should probably promote other alternative methods. Cheerio John On 14 May 2010 13:08, Richard Fairhurst rich...@systemed.net wrote: Occasionally the subject of Flash and free software comes up here in relation to Potlatch. I would encourage people to sign the petition at http://openplayer.net/ encouraging Adobe to make the Flash Player open source. cheers Richard ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Flash and open source
On Fri, May 14, 2010 at 17:08, Richard Fairhurst rich...@systemed.net wrote: Occasionally the subject of Flash and free software comes up here in relation to Potlatch. I would encourage people to sign the petition at http://openplayer.net/ encouraging Adobe to make the Flash Player open source. Making their player open source would be nice. But what's mainly stopping players like Gnash is that their protocols are closed, and that anyone working on opening them up is subject to Adobe's legal team [1]. Adobe is obviously aware of these issues, but chooses to keep their platform closed. An online petition is unlikely to change their mind. 1. http://www.chillingeffects.org/anticircumvention/notice.cgi?NoticeID=25159 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Flash and open source
On Fri, May 14, 2010 at 9:51 PM, Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason ava...@gmail.comwrote: On Fri, May 14, 2010 at 17:08, Richard Fairhurst rich...@systemed.net wrote: Occasionally the subject of Flash and free software comes up here in relation to Potlatch. I would encourage people to sign the petition at http://openplayer.net/ encouraging Adobe to make the Flash Player open source. Making their player open source would be nice. But what's mainly stopping players like Gnash is that their protocols are closed, and that anyone working on opening them up is subject to Adobe's legal team [1]. Adobe is obviously aware of these issues, but chooses to keep their platform closed. An online petition is unlikely to change their mind. 1. http://www.chillingeffects.org/anticircumvention/notice.cgi?NoticeID=25159 I agree totally, we dont need the dirty source code, just some specs or even the permission to reverse engineer. mike ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Proposed human readable contributor terms
I've created a proposed version of the human readable contributor terms on the wiki: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Open_Database_License/Contributor_Terms/Human_readable The wording can doubtless be improved (please do so!), and maybe there's something more to cover. Let's try to keep it short though. If the legal cabal doesn't disapprove of this (and hopefully, approves) I can submit patches against the website to include this in the relevant signup form. The proposed terms would appear where the Please read the agreement below and press the agree button to create your account text does on the current signup form. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Proposed human readable contributor terms
awesome On May 14, 2010, at 2:19 PM, Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason wrote: I've created a proposed version of the human readable contributor terms on the wiki: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Open_Database_License/Contributor_Terms/Human_readable The wording can doubtless be improved (please do so!), and maybe there's something more to cover. Let's try to keep it short though. If the legal cabal doesn't disapprove of this (and hopefully, approves) I can submit patches against the website to include this in the relevant signup form. The proposed terms would appear where the Please read the agreement below and press the agree button to create your account text does on the current signup form. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk Yours c. Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Proposed human readable contributor terms
Hi, Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason wrote: I've created a proposed version of the human readable contributor terms on the wiki: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Open_Database_License/Contributor_Terms/Human_readable The wording can doubtless be improved (please do so!), and maybe there's something more to cover. Let's try to keep it short though. I think the wording is ok, but I would advise against translating it. I believe that presenting a crowdsource-translated summary above an English legalese could be interpreted as misleading the users. Personally, I think that translations are a problem in many places in OSM. Stuff is translated and then starts to rot because whoever did the translation goes hunting for the next non-translated bit. This is just the same as with imports; the translations create documents that nobody cares about, that do not have a community to support them. There seem to be some areas where it works, but I have the impression that triumphantly adding a 23rd language to some page on the Wiki does not, overall, improve quality. Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Proposed human readable contributor terms
On Fri, May 14, 2010 at 20:44, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason wrote: The wording can doubtless be improved (please do so!), and maybe there's something more to cover. Let's try to keep it short though. I think the wording is ok, but I would advise against translating it. I believe that presenting a crowdsource-translated summary above an English legalese could be interpreted as misleading the users. Personally, I think that translations are a problem in many places in OSM. Stuff is translated and then starts to rot because whoever did the translation goes hunting for the next non-translated bit. This is just the same as with imports; the translations create documents that nobody cares about, that do not have a community to support them. It's not misleading if you make sure to note that the summary or the translation isn't canonical. See what I did with the copyright page[1] for an example (only works if you don't view it in English). I'm also talking about translating it on Translatewiki not the OpenStreetMap wiki. The former doesn't suffer from bitrotted translations because out of date translations are automatically marked as obsolete. They'll be removed in time if they're not updated. There seem to be some areas where it works, but I have the impression that triumphantly adding a 23rd language to some page on the Wiki does not, overall, improve quality. The website is now available in just under 70 languages. You have to consider that a lot of the people speaking those languages don't understand English *at all*. The English-only terms might as well be in Klingon as far as their understanding of them goes. Of course you have to be careful when translating texts in legalese (or their summaries). I think the copyright page does a good job of this, allowing translations while explicitly declaring the English version to be canonical. A summary also helps native English speakers. Users are very prone to completely ignore long legal texts and blindly click Agree. They're much more likely to read and understand a short summary intended for the layman. 1. http://www.openstreetmap.org/copyright ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Proposed human readable contributor terms
On 14/05/10 21:19, Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason wrote: I've created a proposed version of the human readable contributor terms on the wiki: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Open_Database_License/Contributor_Terms/Human_readable The wording can doubtless be improved (please do so!), and maybe there's something more to cover. Let's try to keep it short though. The current wording appears to have been written in a way that is aimed at existing contributors rathera than new contributors, who are the only people being shown the terms currently. New users don't need to know that we're making a change, or that attribution is handled differently - they just need to know how things work now, not how they used to work. Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Proposed human readable contributor terms
On Fri, May 14, 2010 at 21:36, Tom Hughes t...@compton.nu wrote: On 14/05/10 21:19, Ęvar Arnfjörš Bjarmason wrote: I've created a proposed version of the human readable contributor terms on the wiki: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Open_Database_License/Contributor_Terms/Human_readable The wording can doubtless be improved (please do so!), and maybe there's something more to cover. Let's try to keep it short though. The current wording appears to have been written in a way that is aimed at existing contributors rathera than new contributors, who are the only people being shown the terms currently. Patches welcome! Seriously, I'm not a native speaker and the text can be improved in lots of little (and big) ways. The intent with the OpenStreetMap is now moving away part was to provide some summary, but maybe that's not necessary. New users don't need to know that [...] that attribution is handled differently [...]. The attribution part is there because of section #4 of the contributor terms: 4. At Your or the copyright holder’s option, OSMF agrees to attribute You or the copyright holder. A mechanism will be provided, currently a web page http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Attribution They apply whether you're a new user or not. I don't see any reason why new users would care less about attribution than users that have signed up in the past. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Proposed human readable contributor terms
On Fri, May 14, 2010 at 20:19, Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason ava...@gmail.com wrote: If the legal cabal doesn't disapprove of this (and hopefully, approves) I can submit patches against the website to include this in the relevant signup form. I've now changed[1] the signup form in my branch: before: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/images/6/6c/Contributor-terms.png after: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/images/f/fd/New-contributor-terms.png The wording in the patch is just a snapshot from the wiki. The patch will obviously have to be updated to incorporate any changes in the summary. 1. http://github.com/avar/openstreetmap-website/compare/master...topic/human-readable-contributor-terms ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Proposed human readable contributor terms
On 14/05/10 22:53, Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason wrote: The attribution part is there because of section #4 of the contributor terms: 4. At Your or the copyright holder’s option, OSMF agrees to attribute You or the copyright holder. A mechanism will be provided, currently a web page http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Attribution They apply whether you're a new user or not. I don't see any reason why new users would care less about attribution than users that have signed up in the past. The point is not that we don't need to explain how attribution is handled but rather that we don't need to mention that it's a change because a new user has no knowledge of previous arrangements. In other words the first sentence of the last paragraph is not needed for a new user. Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Proposed human readable contributor terms
On Fri, May 14, 2010 at 21:57, Tom Hughes t...@compton.nu wrote: The point is not that we don't need to explain how attribution is handled but rather that we don't need to mention that it's a change because a new user has no knowledge of previous arrangements. In other words the first sentence of the last paragraph is not needed for a new user. Agreed. I misunderstood your post. I've changed the wording of the last paragraph: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Open_Database_License/Contributor_Terms/Human_readablediff=473831oldid=473827 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Flash and open source
john whelan wrote: Yes but a problem with Flash is it is a major security hole. My considered opinion on that theory is bollocks. It's a frickin' browser plugin, if the browser is letting it access your l337 credit card details then the browser probably ought to address its plugin architecture. Badly written Flash may crash my browser but it has not yet sent my credit card details to Tajikistan. And even Potlatch doesn't crash it, so it must have to be _really_ badly written to cause a problem. ;) It's probably the major source of Malware in Windows Yeah. The major source of drowning in the Atlantic Ocean is water. BAN water!!11!11o...@wtflolccbysa Aevar Arnfjorth Bjarmason wrote: Making their player open source would be nice. But what's mainly stopping players like Gnash is that their protocols are closed The SWF and RTMP formats are published. The codecs aren't, but that's the whole Ogg Theora/H264 argument for HTML5 and Firefox so not at all exclusive to Flash. And unless your translation code is cleverer than I thought, they're irrelevant to Potlatch (which is kinda the reason I posted here). The main thing stopping Gnash from supporting AVM2 (and strk can correct me if I'm wrong) is that it's a whole big lot of work and there's largely only one developer working on it - even though he's basically a genius and Potlatch 1 would never have happened without his work on Ming. If you threw 100 programmers at Gnash for three months then you'd have an open source (non-audio/video) AVM2 player. strk shouldn't have to spend his time rewriting code that Adobe has already written. Sun made Java open-source. Flash is a direct parallel. I would encourage people not to get hung up on codecs (because Flash has already lost the video battle, all video will be HTML5 in two years) and encourage Adobe to Do The Right Thing, for the benefit of apps like Potlatch and a million others. cheers Richard ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Flash and open source
www.zdnet.com/blog/bott/how-secure-is-flash-heres-what-adobe-wont-tell-you/2152 There are other web sites such as Symantec's site. Symantec's advice corporate advice: In order to reduce the threat of successful exploitation of Web browsers, administrators should maintain a restrictive policy regarding which applications are allowed within the organization. […] Browser security features and add-ons should be employed wherever possible to *disable JavaScript™, Adobe Flash Player, and other content that may present a risk to the user* when visiting untrusted sites Simply going to a web site these days is the most common way to get infected, once infected then you lose your credit card details, and Flash is a very weak link no matter which web browser it is run from. Cheerio John On 14 May 2010 18:51, Richard Fairhurst rich...@systemed.net wrote: john whelan wrote: Yes but a problem with Flash is it is a major security hole. My considered opinion on that theory is bollocks. It's a frickin' browser plugin, if the browser is letting it access your l337 credit card details then the browser probably ought to address its plugin architecture. Badly written Flash may crash my browser but it has not yet sent my credit card details to Tajikistan. And even Potlatch doesn't crash it, so it must have to be _really_ badly written to cause a problem. ;) It's probably the major source of Malware in Windows Yeah. The major source of drowning in the Atlantic Ocean is water. BAN water!!11!11o...@wtflolccbysa Aevar Arnfjorth Bjarmason wrote: Making their player open source would be nice. But what's mainly stopping players like Gnash is that their protocols are closed The SWF and RTMP formats are published. The codecs aren't, but that's the whole Ogg Theora/H264 argument for HTML5 and Firefox so not at all exclusive to Flash. And unless your translation code is cleverer than I thought, they're irrelevant to Potlatch (which is kinda the reason I posted here). The main thing stopping Gnash from supporting AVM2 (and strk can correct me if I'm wrong) is that it's a whole big lot of work and there's largely only one developer working on it - even though he's basically a genius and Potlatch 1 would never have happened without his work on Ming. If you threw 100 programmers at Gnash for three months then you'd have an open source (non-audio/video) AVM2 player. strk shouldn't have to spend his time rewriting code that Adobe has already written. Sun made Java open-source. Flash is a direct parallel. I would encourage people not to get hung up on codecs (because Flash has already lost the video battle, all video will be HTML5 in two years) and encourage Adobe to Do The Right Thing, for the benefit of apps like Potlatch and a million others. cheers Richard ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Flash and open source
On Fri, May 14, 2010 at 22:51, Richard Fairhurst rich...@systemed.net wrote: Aevar Arnfjorth Bjarmason wrote: Making their player open source would be nice. But what's mainly stopping players like Gnash is that their protocols are closed The SWF and RTMP formats are published. The codecs aren't, but that's the whole Ogg Theora/H264 argument for HTML5 and Firefox so not at all exclusive to Flash. And unless your translation code is cleverer than I thought, they're irrelevant to Potlatch (which is kinda the reason I posted here). At least in 2009 the state of those specs was that they were unusable for the Gnash project, see e.g.: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3s-mG5yUjY#t=31m30s they released the specs, but the licensing agreement forbids you from using the specification to write your own implementation. Maybe that's changed since then. The main thing stopping Gnash from supporting AVM2 (and strk can correct me if I'm wrong) is that it's a whole big lot of work and there's largely only one developer working on it - even though he's basically a genius and Potlatch 1 would never have happened without his work on Ming. If you threw 100 programmers at Gnash for three months then you'd have an open source (non-audio/video) AVM2 player. I think you need to read The Mythical Man-Month :) strk shouldn't have to spend his time rewriting code that Adobe has already written. Sun made Java open-source. Flash is a direct parallel. I would encourage people not to get hung up on codecs (because Flash has already lost the video battle, all video will be HTML5 in two years) and encourage Adobe to Do The Right Thing, for the benefit of apps like Potlatch and a million others. Adobe has explicitly said in the past that they can't open source it because they've used a lot of parts in in that they've licensed from somewhere else. Anyway. Good luck with the petition. Personally I think it's about as likely to succeed as an equivalent petition asking Microsoft to open source Windows. I'd love to be proven wrong, though. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Help to import Rio de Janeiro city data to OSM - misaligned shapefiles
And if you really going to do this complicated, than add that the earth really is a liquid ball with hard shell pieces, some seismic events can make the earth wobble which might result in these drifts to accelerate or delay a few years each, sometimes in different directions, making these predictable movements somewhat unpredictable. But all of this is really drifting off topic from the original questions, how to solve the datum differences in importing data sources 2010/5/14 John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com: 2010/5/15 Iván Sánchez Ortega i...@sanchezortega.es: Problem is, the center of mass moves along with the continental drift. Have you heard of gravimetrics? You can have lots of fun with it. Yes I know, but I was outlining the basic reason why most co-ords on most plates shifted 50-200m (or more) when governments started shifting to mass centric models. Also, even though most countries shifted to mass centric based systems, they still using plate fixed models that drift from the GPS system, in the case of DGA94, by about 7cm NNE on average per year, but the plate isn't moving that much, since GPS uses the equator and the 0 degree longitude as fixed reference points which also move, although different parts of different plates move at different speeds and in different directions. So as you said lots of fun to be had by all if you want to get into it :) ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Flash and open source
On 15 May 2010 08:51, Richard Fairhurst rich...@systemed.net wrote: It's a frickin' browser plugin, if the browser is letting it access your l337 credit card details then the browser probably ought to address its plugin architecture. Badly written Flash may crash my browser but it has not yet sent my credit card details to Tajikistan. And even Potlatch doesn't crash it, so it must have to be _really_ badly written to cause a problem. ;) Browser plugin security is a joke and has been for a very long time, and as far as I'm aware nothing has been reported publicly that anything is being done to fix the situation. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Flash and open source
On Sat, 15 May 2010, Richard Fairhurst wrote: It's probably the major source of Malware in Windows Yeah. The major source of drowning in the Atlantic Ocean is water. BAN water!!11!11o...@wtflolccbysa don't forget oxygen is not only poisonous in some forms but promotes explosions so ban it too ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Nieuwe gebruikers moeten zich registreren voor ODbL (naast CC-BY-SA)
Kunnen we weer terug naar de kaart ? Die licentie troubles gaan helemaal nergens over. Of we nu ODBL of CCBYSA zijn is volstrekt irrelevant zolang we geen rechtspersoon van betekenis (in euros) hebben. Is alleen maar nuttig voor mensen die liever lullen dan mappen. Oh ja Stefan, kan jij de PD versie forken ?? Regards, Ing. Gert Gremmen g.grem...@cetest.nl www.cetest.nl Kiotoweg 363 3047 BG Rotterdam T 31(0)104152426 F 31(0)104154953 Before printing, think about the environment. -Oorspronkelijk bericht- Van: talk-nl-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk-nl-boun...@openstreetmap.org] Namens Stefan de Konink Verzonden: Friday, May 14, 2010 3:18 AM Aan: talk-nl@openstreetmap.org Onderwerp: Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Nieuwe gebruikers moeten zich registreren voor ODbL (naast CC-BY-SA) -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 Op 14-05-10 03:09, Cartinus schreef: On Friday 14 May 2010 00:09:35 Roeland Douma wrote: Voor zover ik heb begrepen wordt het opt-out dus als ik niks doe worden mijn edits ODbL. Nee, het wordt opt-in. M.a.w. edits van iedereen die niet te reageert blijven cc-by-sa en komen dus niet in de ODbL database/planets terecht. Hoe cool! Dus we zouden dan dus ook een opt-in PD kunnen krijgen? Stefan -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.15 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEAREKAAYFAkvspMsACgkQYH1+F2Rqwn3K3gCdF4e73s31DDXYdFS3zKmrYCT9 im0An0UwnO/ct/0vt5iIxJ/+0bWFgD4p =UaIh -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Nieuwe gebruikers moeten zich registreren voor ODbL (naast CC-BY-SA)
ik heb ooit wel eens een enquete of poll ingevuld waar werd gevraagd waar je vond dat het heen moest. PD was toen ook een optie maar daar heb ik in ieder geval niet voor gekozen. groet, floris Stefan de Konink wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 Op 14-05-10 03:09, Cartinus schreef: On Friday 14 May 2010 00:09:35 Roeland Douma wrote: Voor zover ik heb begrepen wordt het opt-out dus als ik niks doe worden mijn edits ODbL. Nee, het wordt opt-in. M.a.w. edits van iedereen die niet te reageert blijven cc-by-sa en komen dus niet in de ODbL database/planets terecht. Hoe cool! Dus we zouden dan dus ook een opt-in PD kunnen krijgen? Stefan -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.15 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEAREKAAYFAkvspMsACgkQYH1+F2Rqwn3K3gCdF4e73s31DDXYdFS3zKmrYCT9 im0An0UwnO/ct/0vt5iIxJ/+0bWFgD4p =UaIh -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Nieuwe gebruikers moeten zich registreren voor ODbL (naast CC-BY-SA)
Het is wel degelijk relevant! Ik vind het namelijk een stuk fijner dat ik de baas blijf over mijn edits dan dat ik dat allemaal overgeef aan de OSM foundation. Daar zeg ik ook dat ik geen zin het om de legal list te volgen maar zo nu en dan even op de hoogte gehouden worden wat en hoe er met ijn data wordt om gegaan vind ik toch wel fijn. Als het je enkel om het mappen gaat kan je net zo goed mailtjes aan google gaan sturen met op plek x klopt de kaart niet. Groet, --Roeland On Friday 14 May 2010 09:05:52 ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen wrote: Kunnen we weer terug naar de kaart ? Die licentie troubles gaan helemaal nergens over. Of we nu ODBL of CCBYSA zijn is volstrekt irrelevant zolang we geen rechtspersoon van betekenis (in euros) hebben. Is alleen maar nuttig voor mensen die liever lullen dan mappen. Oh ja Stefan, kan jij de PD versie forken ?? Regards, Ing. Gert Gremmen g.grem...@cetest.nl www.cetest.nl Kiotoweg 363 3047 BG Rotterdam T 31(0)104152426 F 31(0)104154953 Before printing, think about the environment. -Oorspronkelijk bericht- Van: talk-nl-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk-nl-boun...@openstreetmap.org] Namens Stefan de Konink Verzonden: Friday, May 14, 2010 3:18 AM Aan: talk-nl@openstreetmap.org Onderwerp: Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Nieuwe gebruikers moeten zich registreren voor ODbL (naast CC-BY-SA) Op 14-05-10 03:09, Cartinus schreef: On Friday 14 May 2010 00:09:35 Roeland Douma wrote: Voor zover ik heb begrepen wordt het opt-out dus als ik niks doe worden mijn edits ODbL. Nee, het wordt opt-in. M.a.w. edits van iedereen die niet te reageert blijven cc-by-sa en komen dus niet in de ODbL database/planets terecht. Hoe cool! Dus we zouden dan dus ook een opt-in PD kunnen krijgen? Stefan ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Nieuwe gebruikers moeten zich registreren voor ODbL (naast CC-BY-SA)
Had je dan wel voor ODbL gekozen? Groet, --Roeland On Friday 14 May 2010 09:41:02 Floris Looijesteijn wrote: ik heb ooit wel eens een enquete of poll ingevuld waar werd gevraagd waar je vond dat het heen moest. PD was toen ook een optie maar daar heb ik in ieder geval niet voor gekozen. groet, floris Stefan de Konink wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 Op 14-05-10 03:09, Cartinus schreef: On Friday 14 May 2010 00:09:35 Roeland Douma wrote: Voor zover ik heb begrepen wordt het opt-out dus als ik niks doe worden mijn edits ODbL. Nee, het wordt opt-in. M.a.w. edits van iedereen die niet te reageert blijven cc-by-sa en komen dus niet in de ODbL database/planets terecht. Hoe cool! Dus we zouden dan dus ook een opt-in PD kunnen krijgen? Stefan -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.15 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEAREKAAYFAkvspMsACgkQYH1+F2Rqwn3K3gCdF4e73s31DDXYdFS3zKmrYCT9 im0An0UwnO/ct/0vt5iIxJ/+0bWFgD4p =UaIh -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Nieuwe gebruikers moeten zich registreren voor ODbL (naast CC-BY-SA)
Dat is dan beter dan wat ik de laatste keer had begrepen. Wel slechter voor de kwaliteit van de kaart dan natuurlijk. Groet, --Roeland On Friday 14 May 2010 03:09:03 Cartinus wrote: On Friday 14 May 2010 00:09:35 Roeland Douma wrote: Voor zover ik heb begrepen wordt het opt-out dus als ik niks doe worden mijn edits ODbL. Nee, het wordt opt-in. M.a.w. edits van iedereen die niet te reageert blijven cc-by-sa en komen dus niet in de ODbL database/planets terecht. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Nieuwe gebruikers moeten zich registreren voor ODbL (naast CC-BY-SA)
ja, the lesser of two evils zeg maar :) ik wil niet pd omdat ik toch wel op z'n minst iets van credit voor m'n werk wil krijgen maar het zal me eigenlijk een worst wezen, ik wil gewoon kaartjes maken! gr, floris Roeland Douma wrote: Had je dan wel voor ODbL gekozen? Groet, --Roeland On Friday 14 May 2010 09:41:02 Floris Looijesteijn wrote: ik heb ooit wel eens een enquete of poll ingevuld waar werd gevraagd waar je vond dat het heen moest. PD was toen ook een optie maar daar heb ik in ieder geval niet voor gekozen. groet, floris Stefan de Konink wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 Op 14-05-10 03:09, Cartinus schreef: On Friday 14 May 2010 00:09:35 Roeland Douma wrote: Voor zover ik heb begrepen wordt het opt-out dus als ik niks doe worden mijn edits ODbL. Nee, het wordt opt-in. M.a.w. edits van iedereen die niet te reageert blijven cc-by-sa en komen dus niet in de ODbL database/planets terecht. Hoe cool! Dus we zouden dan dus ook een opt-in PD kunnen krijgen? Stefan -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.15 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEAREKAAYFAkvspMsACgkQYH1+F2Rqwn3K3gCdF4e73s31DDXYdFS3zKmrYCT9 im0An0UwnO/ct/0vt5iIxJ/+0bWFgD4p =UaIh -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Nieuwe gebruikers moeten zich registreren voor ODbL (naast CC-BY-SA)
Klinkt als een schitterende motivatie zeg :P Aan de ene kant bent ik voor credits maar aan de andere kant baal ik er nog veel meer van dat vanuit osm geen data richting 6pp kan, omdat de licentie van 6pp nog vrijer is (CC-0). Ik vind toch het argument ik wil gewoon kaartjes maken niet zo heel sterk. We willen allemaal kaartjes maken maar de licentie is voor ons wel degelijk van belang. We zijn er juist allemaal zo trots op dat onze dataset vrij is (hoe vrij is dus een punt van discussie). Als een niet nader te noemen grote internet gigant opeens zegt van je mag bij ons best edits maken en je krijgt credit voor je werk maar de data wordt van ons. Denk niet dat er veel actieve OSM leden daar aan bij zouden gaan dragen. Ik denk liever ook zo min mogelijk na over licenties maar omdat het er nu een licentie wijziging komt zullen we er toch allemaal over na moeten denken. Of allemaal blindelings mee gaan met de slogan de OSM-F weet wel wat goed voor ons is. (Drukt er iemand shirtjes hiervoor?) Zover ik begrepen heb zitten er toch wel enige fundamentele verschillen in de ODbL (maar misschien moet ik hem toch eens helemaal gaan lezen). Als er namelijk geen verschil was zouden we ook niet over hoeven ;) Groet, --Roeland On Friday 14 May 2010 10:31:06 Floris Looijesteijn wrote: ja, the lesser of two evils zeg maar :) ik wil niet pd omdat ik toch wel op z'n minst iets van credit voor m'n werk wil krijgen maar het zal me eigenlijk een worst wezen, ik wil gewoon kaartjes maken! gr, floris Roeland Douma wrote: Had je dan wel voor ODbL gekozen? Groet, --Roeland On Friday 14 May 2010 09:41:02 Floris Looijesteijn wrote: ik heb ooit wel eens een enquete of poll ingevuld waar werd gevraagd waar je vond dat het heen moest. PD was toen ook een optie maar daar heb ik in ieder geval niet voor gekozen. groet, floris Stefan de Konink wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 Op 14-05-10 03:09, Cartinus schreef: On Friday 14 May 2010 00:09:35 Roeland Douma wrote: Voor zover ik heb begrepen wordt het opt-out dus als ik niks doe worden mijn edits ODbL. Nee, het wordt opt-in. M.a.w. edits van iedereen die niet te reageert blijven cc-by-sa en komen dus niet in de ODbL database/planets terecht. Hoe cool! Dus we zouden dan dus ook een opt-in PD kunnen krijgen? Stefan -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.15 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEAREKAAYFAkvspMsACgkQYH1+F2Rqwn3K3gCdF4e73s31DDXYdFS3zKmrYCT9 im0An0UwnO/ct/0vt5iIxJ/+0bWFgD4p =UaIh -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Nieuwe gebruikers moeten zich registreren voor ODbL (naast CC-BY-SA)
Roeland Douma wrote: ... (hoe vrij is dus een punt van discussie). Als een niet nader te noemen grote internet gigant opeens zegt van je mag bij ons best edits maken en je krijgt credit voor je werk maar de data wordt van ons. Denk niet dat er veel actieve OSM leden daar aan bij zouden gaan dragen. ik heb ook wel eens een paar uurtjes aan google mapmaker besteed hoor. op curacao zelfs, omdat daar nog zo weinig goede kaarten van zijn. zoals ik al zei: ik wil gewoon kaartjes maken en me het liefst niet bezig houden met de licentie. maar ik voel me inderdaad wel verplicht om een beetje op de hoogte te blijven en heb ook wel eens wat odbl voorstellen doorgeploegd. maar ik kan toch niets nuttigs zeggen over de juridische geldigheid... en ik vind dat er haast mee gemaakt moet worden, er zijn steeds meer bedrijven die hierdoor geen osm gebruiken. er zijn ook een paar papers over gesubmit voor de sotm10. groet, floris ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Nieuwe gebruikers moeten zich registreren voor ODbL (naast CC-BY-SA)
Als we zo graag willen dat iedereen onze kaart kan gebruiken dan lijkt PD me toch de beste oplossing. Probleem met het hele ODbL vraagstuk is dat je direct dagen bezig bent om alles erover te lezen alle discussie door te ploegen etc. Terwijl ik vaak simpele berichtgeving overzichten van wat we nu mogen/moeten en straks mogen/moeten etc. Dus een transparant geheel zonder dat ik alle converence calls moet gaan terug luisteren etc. Ik weet ook niet hoe alles juridisch in elkaar steekt maar dat wil nog niet zeggen dat ik niet wil weten wat er met mijn data gebeurt ;) Groet, --Roeland On Friday 14 May 2010 11:08:42 Floris Looijesteijn wrote: Roeland Douma wrote: ... (hoe vrij is dus een punt van discussie). Als een niet nader te noemen grote internet gigant opeens zegt van je mag bij ons best edits maken en je krijgt credit voor je werk maar de data wordt van ons. Denk niet dat er veel actieve OSM leden daar aan bij zouden gaan dragen. ik heb ook wel eens een paar uurtjes aan google mapmaker besteed hoor. op curacao zelfs, omdat daar nog zo weinig goede kaarten van zijn. zoals ik al zei: ik wil gewoon kaartjes maken en me het liefst niet bezig houden met de licentie. maar ik voel me inderdaad wel verplicht om een beetje op de hoogte te blijven en heb ook wel eens wat odbl voorstellen doorgeploegd. maar ik kan toch niets nuttigs zeggen over de juridische geldigheid... en ik vind dat er haast mee gemaakt moet worden, er zijn steeds meer bedrijven die hierdoor geen osm gebruiken. er zijn ook een paar papers over gesubmit voor de sotm10. groet, floris ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Nieuwe gebruikers moeten zich registreren voor ODbL (naast CC-BY-SA)
On Thursday 13 May 2010 23:27:18 Henk Hoff wrote: We moeten nu het stadium van mijmeren over scenario's achter ons laten. Tijd om te zien wat de daadwerkelijke cijfers zullen zijn. Dan kunnen we over die echte cijfers gaan praten. Precies, we moeten weten waar we aan toe zijn. Dat kun je doen door te wachten tot iemand in Engeland weer een stukje van het uitrollen van de nieuwe licentie geïmplementeerd heeft. Dan duurt het waarschijnlijk nog wel even voor we wat weten. Of je kunt _nu_ aan de top twintig editors in Nederland te vragen hoe ze erover denken en uit proberen te zoeken hoeveel impact dat heeft. Aangezien de mensen die dat in Nederland waarschijnlijk zouden doen, helemaal niet bezig zijn met wat er in Engeland (technisch) gedaan wordt, zal dat het uitrollen van de nieuwe licentie niet ophouden. Sterker nog als blijkt dat er een probleem is, dan kunnen we daar _nu_ al oplossingen voor gaan zoeken. -- Hoe die nieuwe licentie eruit ziet zal me langzamerhand een worst wezen. Uitrollen die handel of de nek omdraaien, maar dit in limbo hangen is m.i. erg slecht voor het project. -- m.v.g., Cartinus ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Nieuwe gebruikers moeten zich registreren voorODbL (naast CC-BY-SA)
Roeland, Ste: Ik heb zojuist alle edits van jouw naam gekopieerd en ga ze publiceren onder PD licentie: wat ga je nu doen behalve niet fijn vinden ?? Gert Gremmen - Openstreetmap.nl (alias: cetest) Before printing, think about the environment. -Oorspronkelijk bericht- Van: talk-nl-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk-nl-boun...@openstreetmap.org] Namens Roeland Douma Verzonden: Friday, May 14, 2010 10:17 AM Aan: OpenStreetMap NL discussion list Onderwerp: Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Nieuwe gebruikers moeten zich registreren voorODbL (naast CC-BY-SA) Het is wel degelijk relevant! Ik vind het namelijk een stuk fijner dat ik de baas blijf over mijn edits dan dat ik dat allemaal overgeef aan de OSM foundation. Daar zeg ik ook dat ik geen zin het om de legal list te volgen maar zo nu en dan even op de hoogte gehouden worden wat en hoe er met ijn data wordt om gegaan vind ik toch wel fijn. Als het je enkel om het mappen gaat kan je net zo goed mailtjes aan google gaan sturen met op plek x klopt de kaart niet. Groet, --Roeland On Friday 14 May 2010 09:05:52 ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen wrote: Kunnen we weer terug naar de kaart ? Die licentie troubles gaan helemaal nergens over. Of we nu ODBL of CCBYSA zijn is volstrekt irrelevant zolang we geen rechtspersoon van betekenis (in euros) hebben. Is alleen maar nuttig voor mensen die liever lullen dan mappen. Oh ja Stefan, kan jij de PD versie forken ?? Regards, Ing. Gert Gremmen g.grem...@cetest.nl www.cetest.nl Kiotoweg 363 3047 BG Rotterdam T 31(0)104152426 F 31(0)104154953 P Before printing, think about the environment. -Oorspronkelijk bericht- Van: talk-nl-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk-nl-boun...@openstreetmap.org] Namens Stefan de Konink Verzonden: Friday, May 14, 2010 3:18 AM Aan: talk-nl@openstreetmap.org Onderwerp: Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Nieuwe gebruikers moeten zich registreren voor ODbL (naast CC-BY-SA) Op 14-05-10 03:09, Cartinus schreef: On Friday 14 May 2010 00:09:35 Roeland Douma wrote: Voor zover ik heb begrepen wordt het opt-out dus als ik niks doe worden mijn edits ODbL. Nee, het wordt opt-in. M.a.w. edits van iedereen die niet te reageert blijven cc-by-sa en komen dus niet in de ODbL database/planets terecht. Hoe cool! Dus we zouden dan dus ook een opt-in PD kunnen krijgen? Stefan ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Nieuwe gebruikers moeten zich registreren voor ODbL (naast CC-BY-SA)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 Op 14-05-10 14:10, Cartinus schreef: Of je kunt _nu_ aan de top twintig editors in Nederland te vragen hoe ze erover denken en uit proberen te zoeken hoeveel impact dat heeft. Dat is dus de issue ;) Die top twintig hoeft niet de historische eigenaar te zijn van de data. Je zou zelfs terug moeten naar de eerste versie van het materiaal, en dat is zelfs met alle 'upgrades' niet meer direct toegankelijk in de huidige database. Stefan -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.15 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEAREKAAYFAkvtRJ4ACgkQYH1+F2Rqwn38BACeO3SpmuKpknbyKd2vW1+GD1iG uLgAnjZ6//otmP9sfLSlPrbEwNRfARW6 =1mH3 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Nieuwe gebruikers moeten zich registreren voorODbL (naast CC-BY-SA)
Het gaat er toch niet om wat ik ga doen? Het gaat erom wat ik kan doen. Veel fanatieke OSM-ers roepen juist dat onze kaart vrij is (discutabel punt maar dat is voor een andere keer). Echter je moet je aan de licentie houden. Er zijn al genoeg recht zaken omtrent GPL geweest en nog vele meer voor inbreuk op commerciële licenties. Nu ben ik een groot PD voorstander dus ik zou het enkel toe juigen als we een PD planet hebben en geen licentie gezeik meer hebben, maar tot die tijd wil ik toch graag af en toe wat info als de licentie wijzigt. --Roeland On Friday 14 May 2010 14:33:39 ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen wrote: Roeland, Ste: Ik heb zojuist alle edits van jouw naam gekopieerd en ga ze publiceren onder PD licentie: wat ga je nu doen behalve niet fijn vinden ?? Gert Gremmen - Openstreetmap.nl (alias: cetest) Before printing, think about the environment. -Oorspronkelijk bericht- Van: talk-nl-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk-nl-boun...@openstreetmap.org] Namens Roeland Douma Verzonden: Friday, May 14, 2010 10:17 AM Aan: OpenStreetMap NL discussion list Onderwerp: Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Nieuwe gebruikers moeten zich registreren voorODbL (naast CC-BY-SA) Het is wel degelijk relevant! Ik vind het namelijk een stuk fijner dat ik de baas blijf over mijn edits dan dat ik dat allemaal overgeef aan de OSM foundation. Daar zeg ik ook dat ik geen zin het om de legal list te volgen maar zo nu en dan even op de hoogte gehouden worden wat en hoe er met ijn data wordt om gegaan vind ik toch wel fijn. Als het je enkel om het mappen gaat kan je net zo goed mailtjes aan google gaan sturen met op plek x klopt de kaart niet. Groet, --Roeland On Friday 14 May 2010 09:05:52 ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen wrote: Kunnen we weer terug naar de kaart ? Die licentie troubles gaan helemaal nergens over. Of we nu ODBL of CCBYSA zijn is volstrekt irrelevant zolang we geen rechtspersoon van betekenis (in euros) hebben. Is alleen maar nuttig voor mensen die liever lullen dan mappen. Oh ja Stefan, kan jij de PD versie forken ?? Regards, Ing. Gert Gremmen g.grem...@cetest.nl www.cetest.nl Kiotoweg 363 3047 BG Rotterdam T 31(0)104152426 F 31(0)104154953 P Before printing, think about the environment. -Oorspronkelijk bericht- Van: talk-nl-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk-nl-boun...@openstreetmap.org] Namens Stefan de Konink Verzonden: Friday, May 14, 2010 3:18 AM Aan: talk-nl@openstreetmap.org Onderwerp: Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Nieuwe gebruikers moeten zich registreren voor ODbL (naast CC-BY-SA) Op 14-05-10 03:09, Cartinus schreef: On Friday 14 May 2010 00:09:35 Roeland Douma wrote: Voor zover ik heb begrepen wordt het opt-out dus als ik niks doe worden mijn edits ODbL. Nee, het wordt opt-in. M.a.w. edits van iedereen die niet te reageert blijven cc-by-sa en komen dus niet in de ODbL database/planets terecht. Hoe cool! Dus we zouden dan dus ook een opt-in PD kunnen krijgen? Stefan ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Nieuwe gebruikers moeten zich registreren voor ODbL (naast CC-BY-SA)
het is vast niet zo heel moeilijk om een kaartje te maken met alle ways die nog versie 1 zijn... dat geeft misschien al een aardig beeld... Stefan de Konink wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 Op 14-05-10 14:10, Cartinus schreef: Of je kunt _nu_ aan de top twintig editors in Nederland te vragen hoe ze erover denken en uit proberen te zoeken hoeveel impact dat heeft. Dat is dus de issue ;) Die top twintig hoeft niet de historische eigenaar te zijn van de data. Je zou zelfs terug moeten naar de eerste versie van het materiaal, en dat is zelfs met alle 'upgrades' niet meer direct toegankelijk in de huidige database. Stefan -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.15 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEAREKAAYFAkvtRJ4ACgkQYH1+F2Rqwn38BACeO3SpmuKpknbyKd2vW1+GD1iG uLgAnjZ6//otmP9sfLSlPrbEwNRfARW6 =1mH3 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Nieuwe gebruikers moeten zich registreren voor ODbL (naast CC-BY-SA)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 Op 14-05-10 15:03, Floris Looijesteijn schreef: het is vast niet zo heel moeilijk om een kaartje te maken met alle ways die nog versie 1 zijn... dat geeft misschien al een aardig beeld... Versie 1 in de full dump is niet de 'eerste' versie 1. Stefan -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.15 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEAREKAAYFAkvtTEkACgkQYH1+F2Rqwn1RDgCfbJwYDMymC+1v3Jb5rp1H3CuA vfAAnRR5WnXDHDMS9+PYZLZtKWgsWPr9 =mvBK -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Nieuwe gebruikers moeten zich registreren voor ODbL (naast CC-BY-SA)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 Op 14-05-10 15:47, Floris Looijesteijn schreef: Huh? Weet je dat zeker? Meer info ergens? De hele history is op een zeker moment geditched. Ik weet niet meer of dat was van 0.5 = 0.6 of van in een van de vorige versies. Maakt niet uit natuurlijk, maar je kunt beter recursief van versie 1 om hoog gaan dan naar beneden. Stefan -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.15 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEAREKAAYFAkvtaYUACgkQYH1+F2Rqwn3qSwCdGOp62ItXCPjFY2LPfgCpTavg YrIAnjTJCNZQ8Z9qNKN9DuZPRCerAxd8 =ygOB -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Nieuwe gebruikers moeten zich registreren voor ODbL (naast CC-BY-SA)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 Op 14-05-10 17:02, Henk Hoff schreef: Einde vorig jaar is er een stemmingsronde geweest onder de leden van de OSM Foundation over dit proces. Deze hebben met overgrote meerderheid voor continuatie van het proces gestemd. De leden (270) vertegenwoordigen helaas niet de overgrote meerderheid van de active contributors. Dus je kunt het zelfs niet eens een statisch relevante steekproef noemen door te stellen dat 132 ervan voor licentie wijziging hebben gestemd. Steker nog als we toch met een poll gaan smijten. Dan is de pol waar PD wordt aangehouden met een overweldige meerderheid (177) gekozen(!) over selectief informatie geven. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Open_Database_License Trouwens: je geeft het eigendom van de bijdrage niet over aan de OpenStreetMap Foundation. Je geeft enkel de OSMF het recht om jouw bijdragen als onderdeel van een groter geheel onder een bepaalde licentie te publiceren. Dat is nu zo, en dat is straks ook zo. Halve waarheid natuurlijk. Je kunt je bijdrage ook niet meer onttrekken. You hereby grant to OSMF a worldwide, royalty-free, non-exclusive, perpetual, irrevocable license to do any act that is restricted by copyright over anything within the Contents, whether in the original medium or any other. Het bovenstaande impliceert dat je geen aanspraak meer kan maken op jouw persoonlijkheids rechten. En wat krijg je er voor terug? OSMF agrees to use or sub-license Your Contents as part of a database and only under the terms of one of the following licenses: ODbL 1.0 for the database and DbCL 1.0 for the individual contents of the database; CC-BY-SA 2.0; or another free and open license. Which other free and open license is chosen by a vote of the OSMF membership and approved by at least a 2/3 majority vote of active contributors. Concreet dus; levert Google 400 nieuwe leden aan, die stemmen voor PD, wordt het materiaal wat aan de OSMF is gelicenseerd PD. Oh boy, oh boy, wat een vooruitgang. Terwijl momenteel aan de individuele contributor moet worden gevraagd of hij het eens is. Van actieve democratie gaan we dus naar contributie gebasseerde democratie. Wat misschien wel in de toekomst passieve democratie gaat worden. Stefan -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.15 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEAREKAAYFAkvta/0ACgkQYH1+F2Rqwn1dowCcCqQKUIdYOT22F/QfOPH2hV2F dmgAn2K/mAA994Kw6oTmXm3ysSepEsQu =vUIW -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Nieuwe gebruikers moeten zich registreren voor ODbL (naast CC-BY-SA)
Op 14 mei 2010 17:27 schreef Stefan de Konink ste...@konink.de het volgende: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 Op 14-05-10 17:02, Henk Hoff schreef: Einde vorig jaar is er een stemmingsronde geweest onder de leden van de OSM Foundation over dit proces. Deze hebben met overgrote meerderheid voor continuatie van het proces gestemd. De leden (270) vertegenwoordigen helaas niet de overgrote meerderheid van de active contributors. Dus je kunt het zelfs niet eens een statisch relevante steekproef noemen door te stellen dat 132 ervan voor licentie wijziging hebben gestemd. Dat mag je vinden. Echter, dit is een heel gebruikelijke gang van zaken bij verenigingen. Hetzelfde geldt voor bv politieke partijen. De leden bepalen het partijprogramma en de kieslijst, vervolgens kunnen andere mensen daarop stemmen. Maar ook de voetbalvereniging werkt zo Ik zou zeggen: wordt lid! http://www.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Join Steker nog als we toch met een poll gaan smijten. Dan is de pol waar PD wordt aangehouden met een overweldige meerderheid (177) gekozen(!) over selectief informatie geven. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Open_Database_License Van de mensen die voor ODbL hebben gestemd vinden 58% dat zij PD prevaleren. 42% dus niet. Anders gesteld: van iedereen die Ja of Nee hebben gestemd waren 49% voor PD. Dat kan ik echt geen overweldige meerderheid noemen. Wanneer je mij beschuldigd van selectieve informatie geven, doe het dan zelf ook niet. Wel zo netjes. Trouwens: je geeft het eigendom van de bijdrage niet over aan de OpenStreetMap Foundation. Je geeft enkel de OSMF het recht om jouw bijdragen als onderdeel van een groter geheel onder een bepaalde licentie te publiceren. Dat is nu zo, en dat is straks ook zo. Halve waarheid natuurlijk. Je kunt je bijdrage ook niet meer onttrekken. Dat zou pas echt raar zijn! Vandaag iets toevoegen en vervolgens over een jaar dat weer terugtrekken? You hereby grant to OSMF a worldwide, royalty-free, non-exclusive, perpetual, irrevocable license to do any act that is restricted by copyright over anything within the Contents, whether in the original medium or any other. Het bovenstaande impliceert dat je geen aanspraak meer kan maken op jouw persoonlijkheids rechten. En wat krijg je er voor terug? Een collectieve geo-database ... Dat is toch het idee achter community generated content? OSMF agrees to use or sub-license Your Contents as part of a database and only under the terms of one of the following licenses: ODbL 1.0 for the database and DbCL 1.0 for the individual contents of the database; CC-BY-SA 2.0; or another free and open license. Which other free and open license is chosen by a vote of the OSMF membership and approved by at least a 2/3 majority vote of active contributors. Let er even op dat hier WEL gesproken wordt over active contributors. (De definitie van een active contributor staat er trouwens onder) Concreet dus; levert Google 400 nieuwe leden aan, die stemmen voor PD, wordt het materiaal wat aan de OSMF is gelicenseerd PD. Oh boy, oh boy, wat een vooruitgang. Terwijl momenteel aan de individuele contributor moet worden gevraagd of hij het eens is. De Foundation heeft het recht om lidmaatschap aanvragen te weigeren. Van actieve democratie gaan we dus naar contributie gebasseerde democratie. Wat misschien wel in de toekomst passieve democratie gaat worden. Hoezo? Met ingang van deze set aan Contributor Terms wordt ook geregeld dat toekomstige licentiewijzigingen wordt bepaald door active contributors (ipv de leden). Ik had verwacht dat je blij zou zijn ;-) Gr, Henk ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Nieuwe gebruikers moeten zich registreren voor ODbL (naast CC-BY-SA)
On Friday 14 May 2010 17:17:25 Stefan de Konink wrote: De hele history is op een zeker moment geditched. Ik weet niet meer of dat was van 0.5 = 0.6 of van in een van de vorige versies. Dat was tussen 0.4 en 0.5. -- m.v.g., Cartinus ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Nieuwe gebruikers moeten zich registreren voor ODbL (naast CC-BY-SA)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 Hey Henk, Op 14-05-10 18:53, Henk Hoff schreef: Dat mag je vinden. Echter, dit is een heel gebruikelijke gang van zaken bij verenigingen. We zijn geen vereniging. Sterker nog de meeste mensen zijn betrokken geraakt bij OSM toen het nog gewoon een website was met user generated content, en de OSMF niet eens bestond. Daarbij was de doelstelling van het OSMF om te faciliteren, niet het project te leiden. Ik zou zeggen: wordt lid! http://www.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Join Zoals veel mensen al hebben aangegeven; betalen voor iets waar je actief voor aan het werk bent in je vrije tijd is een keurige motivatie om geen 'lid' te worden. En met zaken als deze (licentie wijziging) kan ik me juist goed voorstellen dat je niet met zo'n 'club' geassocieerd wil worden. Steker nog als we toch met een poll gaan smijten. Dan is de pol waar PD wordt aangehouden met een overweldige meerderheid (177) gekozen(!) over selectief informatie geven. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Open_Database_License Van de mensen die voor ODbL hebben gestemd vinden 58% dat zij PD prevaleren. 42% dus niet. Anders gesteld: van iedereen die Ja of Nee hebben gestemd waren 49% voor PD. Dat kan ik echt geen overweldige meerderheid noemen. Wanneer je mij beschuldigd van selectieve informatie geven, doe het dan zelf ook niet. Wel zo netjes. Er zijn meer mensen die PD willen, dan je ODbL stemmers(!) hebt gehad. Trouwens: je geeft het eigendom van de bijdrage niet over aan de OpenStreetMap Foundation. Je geeft enkel de OSMF het recht om jouw bijdragen als onderdeel van een groter geheel onder een bepaalde licentie te publiceren. Dat is nu zo, en dat is straks ook zo. Halve waarheid natuurlijk. Je kunt je bijdrage ook niet meer onttrekken. Dat zou pas echt raar zijn! Vandaag iets toevoegen en vervolgens over een jaar dat weer terugtrekken? Dat is toch effectief wat er nu gebeurd als je NEE zegt tegen ODbL, het wordt niet geïmporteerd in de nieuwe dataset. You hereby grant to OSMF a worldwide, royalty-free, non-exclusive, perpetual, irrevocable license to do any act that is restricted by copyright over anything within the Contents, whether in the original medium or any other. Het bovenstaande impliceert dat je geen aanspraak meer kan maken op jouw persoonlijkheids rechten. En wat krijg je er voor terug? Een collectieve geo-database ... Dat is toch het idee achter community generated content? Is het nu ook, weinig meerwaarde. OSMF agrees to use or sub-license Your Contents as part of a database and only under the terms of one of the following licenses: ODbL 1.0 for the database and DbCL 1.0 for the individual contents of the database; CC-BY-SA 2.0; or another free and open license. Which other free and open license is chosen by a vote of the OSMF membership and approved by at least a 2/3 majority vote of active contributors. Let er even op dat hier WEL gesproken wordt over active contributors. (De definitie van een active contributor staat er trouwens onder) Ik zou eerst wel de majority vote voor de ODbL eens willen zien ;) Concreet dus; levert Google 400 nieuwe leden aan, die stemmen voor PD, wordt het materiaal wat aan de OSMF is gelicenseerd PD. Oh boy, oh boy, wat een vooruitgang. Terwijl momenteel aan de individuele contributor moet worden gevraagd of hij het eens is. De Foundation heeft het recht om lidmaatschap aanvragen te weigeren. Oh dus ik mag niet eens lidworden als ik tegen ODbL wil stemmen en voor PD ben. Wow, Henk wat een clubje! Zijn er verder nog eisen? Van actieve democratie gaan we dus naar contributie gebasseerde democratie. Wat misschien wel in de toekomst passieve democratie gaat worden. Hoezo? Met ingang van deze set aan Contributor Terms wordt ook geregeld dat toekomstige licentiewijzigingen wordt bepaald door active contributors (ipv de leden). Ik had verwacht dat je blij zou zijn ;-) Nee hoor, nu kan er ook niet worden gewijzigd zonder de contributors te raadplegen, ik zie geen enkele verbetering voor een contributor ;) Stefan -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.15 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEAREKAAYFAkvtgvIACgkQYH1+F2Rqwn0fswCdG+g/+GlAEv+xWb6etgt/F236 TuwAnjbNN2M3lRdXSWYdxRU5+Yq8I9iD =j1PT -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Nieuwe gebruikers moeten zich registreren voor ODbL (naast CC-BY-SA)
On Friday 14 May 2010 18:54:55 Cartinus wrote: On Friday 14 May 2010 17:17:25 Stefan de Konink wrote: De hele history is op een zeker moment geditched. Ik weet niet meer of dat was van 0.5 = 0.6 of van in een van de vorige versies. Dat was tussen 0.4 en 0.5. Overigens is de ontwikkelaar van osmdoc bezig met een interface om de historie van objecten te ontsluiten. Hierin zit alles vanaf de 0.4 - 0.5 en een benadering van wat daarvoor is gebeurt aan de hand van planet files. Dat laatste is voor Nederland overigens grotendeels irrelevant want de AND import was vlak voor de 0.4 - 0.5 overgang en ik hoop dat iedereen (die er toen bij was) zich nog kan herinneren hoe weinig er is aangepast in het eerste jaar na de import. -- m.v.g., Cartinus ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Nieuwe gebruikers moeten zich registreren voor ODbL (naast CC-BY-SA)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 Op 14-05-10 19:20, Cartinus schreef: Dat laatste is voor Nederland overigens grotendeels irrelevant want de AND import was vlak voor de 0.4 - 0.5 overgang en ik hoop dat iedereen (die er toen bij was) zich nog kan herinneren hoe weinig er is aangepast in het eerste jaar na de import. Speak for yourself ;) Stefan -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.15 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEAREKAAYFAkvth2IACgkQYH1+F2Rqwn0k+QCbBTirkP5883cmJeW7ribO0fiA xH0AnRGz10XLcwqVILeZg8r+yQIsDSRL =TBy8 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Nieuwe gebruikers moeten zich registreren voor ODbL (naast CC-BY-SA)
Maw wachten totdat iedereen gestemd heeft en zien wat er van de OSM DB overblijft En wat was ook alweer de reden om *echt* principieel tegen ODbL te zijn? Ik ben het met Henk eens. Er is maar één manier in iedergeval om dit goed te regelen en dat is als 1 orgaan bepaald (democratisch) onder welke licentie het project valt. Anders krijg je dit en daarmee *kan * het project ten dode opgeschreven zijn, wat nu ook kan gebeuren als er een groot aantal mensen (vooral mensen/donateurs die veel en lang bij OSM zijn) nee stemmen en dus hiermee het OSM project verlaten en *al hun data, dat van anderen na hun en hun hobby in de prullebak gooien! * Ik ben en blijf voor. Ook al zijn er misschien wel betere licenties. Just my 2 cents ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Nieuwe gebruikers moeten zich registreren voor ODbL (naast CC-BY-SA)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 Op 14-05-10 20:42, F. Heinen schreef: En wat was ook alweer de reden om _echt_ principieel tegen ODbL te zijn? Principele reden is het afgeven van rechten aan de OSMF die er dan in principe alles mee kan doen wat men goed dunkt. Daarbij zijn voor veel mensen: if it aint broken van belang. En daarbij zien anderen dat de mensen die OSM nu niet voor juridische redenen gebruiken, dat ook niet gebeuren als van licentie wordt veranderd. Er is gewoon geen enkele toezegging. Daarbij is natuurlijk de onduidelijkheid rond de juridische status van de ODbL onduidelijk (nooit getest). En zijn veel mensen gewoon voor een VRIJE kaart en niet voor een of ander businessmodel met viral licensing. Stefan -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.15 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEAREKAAYFAkvtnDQACgkQYH1+F2Rqwn2j8ACfSyXWgiXJZnp2WC1TBCuQsOnw WqoAoIaXi4812VbZWFa3vYEn4QwF7D7P =GPqh -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
[talk-au] Border dispute answers erased in time - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/05/14/2899710.htm -- Advancement in position. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Ways incorrectly tagged as admin boundaries?
On 14 May 2010 14:14, Balram Ramanathan balram.ramanat...@nearmap.com wrote: Hi, I've come across a handful of Ways with ABS data attributions that are (probably incorrectly) marked as administrative boundaries. They are: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/14191309 http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/13807736 http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/14192887 http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/16420310 http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/28262742 All of them are in southern WA and were edited by the same user. Given the au.gov.abs tags, could this be the result of a misfiring script? Have you attempted to contact the user to find out more details from them? http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Australian_Vandalism ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [Talk-br] Virada Hacker com OSM
Gostaria de estar presente. Vamo que vamo! []s 2010/5/14 Diogo diogownunes2...@yahoo.com.br On 5/14/2010 8:00 AM, talk-br-requ...@openstreetmap.org wrote: Date: Fri, 14 May 2010 07:14:57 -0300 From: Claudomiro Nascimento Juniorclaudom...@claudomiro.com Subject: Re: [Talk-br] Virada Hacker com OSM To: OSM talk-brtalk-br@openstreetmap.org Message-ID: aanlktikrujpbjocr-ppmwtsf4u6d88pjzbg0mbuh1...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Opa, legal! Estamos confirmados. Mais alguem de SP na escuta? Ola pessoal, Infelizmente esse FDS eu nao consigo. Boa virada pra voces ! Um abraço, Diogo ___ Talk-br mailing list Talk-br@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-br ___ Talk-br mailing list Talk-br@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-br
[Talk-br] Relatório Semanal: 14/05/2010
*Status dos Projetos OSM-br* * B250C - Brasil 250 Cidades* Página do Projeto: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Brazil/Brasil_250_Cidades *2a. fase* Conectividade em *72,42%* *(+6,15%)* Grid Atualizado (html): http://mapaslivres.org/cidades-distancias.html (13 Mb) Grid Atualizado (zip): http://mapaslivres.org/cidades-distancias.zip (2 Mb) *JOSM - Tradução ao português* Página do Projeto: https://translations.launchpad.net/josm/trunk/+pots/josm Indicador: Percentual de strings traduzidas em *70.13% **(-0.62%)* Tradução do Texto de Notícias do JOSM:http://josm.openstreetmap.de/wiki/StartupPageSource *Merkaator - Tradução ao português* Página do Projeto: https://translations.launchpad.net/merkaartor Indicador: Percentual de strings traduzidas em *73.27% **(+0,00%)* *Site osm.org - Tradução ao português * Página do Projeto: http://translatewiki.net/wiki/Translating:OpenStreetMap/stats/trunk/site Indicador: String Traduzidas em *99.07% **(-0,93%)* *Potlach* - *Tradução ao português* Página do Projeto: http://translatewiki.net/wiki/Translating:OpenStreetMap/stats/trunk/potlatch Indicador: String Traduzidas em *100%* ___ Talk-br mailing list Talk-br@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-br
[Talk-br] Imagens de Satélite do CBERS 2B
Olá Pessoal, Acabei de baixar uma imagem de satélite do CBERS 2B. As imagens são monocromáticas e com resolução de 2.5 metros. A imagem é um pouco pior que a do yahoo, mas a vantagem é que cobre todo Brasil. Eu acho que a gente pode usar estas imagens principalmente para mapear cidades menores. Aqui está um tutorial de como baixar imagens: http://www.scribd.com/doc/13432732/Como-baixar-imagens-LANDSAT-e-CBERS-do-INPE Ainda não li com calma a licença de uso, mas não creio que seja dificil conseguirmos autorização. Abs, Vitor ___ Talk-br mailing list Talk-br@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-br
Re: [Talk-br] Imagens de Satélite do CBERS 2B
2010/5/14 Vitor George vitor.geo...@gmail.com: Olá Pessoal, Acabei de baixar uma imagem de satélite do CBERS 2B. As imagens são monocromáticas e com resolução de 2.5 metros. A imagem é um pouco pior que a do yahoo, mas a vantagem é que cobre todo Brasil. Eu acho que a gente pode usar estas imagens principalmente para mapear cidades menores. Aqui está um tutorial de como baixar imagens: http://www.scribd.com/doc/13432732/Como-baixar-imagens-LANDSAT-e-CBERS-do-INPE Ainda não li com calma a licença de uso, mas não creio que seja dificil conseguirmos autorização. Se eu me lembro direto, você não pode criar imagems derivados (eg, mapas) baseados nas imagems satélite CBERS. -- Johan Dahlin ___ Talk-br mailing list Talk-br@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-br
Re: [Talk-br] Imagens de Satélite do CBERS 2B
As rodovias menores (de duas pistas) são identificáveis na imagem? Se for, seria uma ótima para melhorar o traçado das importanções do IBGE... 2010/5/14 Vitor George vitor.geo...@gmail.com: Olá Pessoal, Acabei de baixar uma imagem de satélite do CBERS 2B. As imagens são monocromáticas e com resolução de 2.5 metros. A imagem é um pouco pior que a do yahoo, mas a vantagem é que cobre todo Brasil. Eu acho que a gente pode usar estas imagens principalmente para mapear cidades menores. Aqui está um tutorial de como baixar imagens: http://www.scribd.com/doc/13432732/Como-baixar-imagens-LANDSAT-e-CBERS-do-INPE Ainda não li com calma a licença de uso, mas não creio que seja dificil conseguirmos autorização. Abs, Vitor ___ Talk-br mailing list Talk-br@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-br ___ Talk-br mailing list Talk-br@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-br
Re: [Talk-br] Imagens de Satélite do CBERS 2B
2010/5/14 Johan Dahlin jdah...@gmail.com: 2010/5/14 Vitor George vitor.geo...@gmail.com: Olá Pessoal, Acabei de baixar uma imagem de satélite do CBERS 2B. As imagens são monocromáticas e com resolução de 2.5 metros. A imagem é um pouco pior que a do yahoo, mas a vantagem é que cobre todo Brasil. Eu acho que a gente pode usar estas imagens principalmente para mapear cidades menores. Aqui está um tutorial de como baixar imagens: http://www.scribd.com/doc/13432732/Como-baixar-imagens-LANDSAT-e-CBERS-do-INPE Ainda não li com calma a licença de uso, mas não creio que seja dificil conseguirmos autorização. Se eu me lembro direto, você não pode criar imagems derivados (eg, mapas) baseados nas imagems satélite CBERS. http://www.dgi.inpe.br/pedidos_CBERS/licenca-CBERS.htm diz: 2.9 Em qualquer caso de uso de imagens CBERS, inclusive imagens derivadas ou imagens classificadas, o usuário deverá indicar de forma clara e legível a natureza do produto original CBERS, e mencionar expressamente o INPE como o detentor do direito autoral das imagens. Talvez um source:CBERS tag seria sufficiente? -- Johan Dahlin ___ Talk-br mailing list Talk-br@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-br
Re: [Talk-br] Imagens de Satélite do CBERS 2B
2010/5/14 Arlindo Pereira arli...@clavis.com.br: Eu acho muito louco essas licenças limitarem cidadãos brasileiros. Quer dizer que se tivermos uma força tarefa para traçar as cidades com essas imagens o Aun (por exemplo) não poderá ajudar? Meio esquisito isso... Eu acho que o grande problema de usar as imagens CBERS é que o satelite não é só brasileiro, ele também é da china. Deve ter algum acordo entre os dois paises para o uso dessas imagens. Talvez fosse o caso de entrar em contato com o INPE pedindo liberação das imagens para contribuir com o projeto, tipo o que o pessoal do OSM fez com a Yahoo!. Também acho uma boa idéia. Deixando esses pormenores de lado, sim, acredito que uma source:CBERS ou source:CBERS;INPE seja suficiente. Pelo que eu entendi da licença do INPE, e de acordo com o FAQ [1] do osm, o INPE considera imagens derivadas como sendo copyright deles, e o osm não permite isso. Mas acho que seria interessante confirmar com o inpe, ou mesmo escrever uma proposta, mostrando os benefícios do osm e pedindo permissão de uso. [1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/FAQ#I_have_geo-referenced_photography.2Fshapefiles.2Fwaypoints_for_my_area.2C_how_can_I_upload_them.3F []s -- Arlindo Pereira Analista de Segurança Grupo Clavis Segurança da Informação http://www.clavis.com.br +55 21 2210-6061 +55 21 2561-0867 Em 14 de maio de 2010 13:33, Johan Dahlin jdah...@gmail.com escreveu: 2010/5/14 Johan Dahlin jdah...@gmail.com: 2010/5/14 Vitor George vitor.geo...@gmail.com: Olá Pessoal, Acabei de baixar uma imagem de satélite do CBERS 2B. As imagens são monocromáticas e com resolução de 2.5 metros. A imagem é um pouco pior que a do yahoo, mas a vantagem é que cobre todo Brasil. Eu acho que a gente pode usar estas imagens principalmente para mapear cidades menores. Aqui está um tutorial de como baixar imagens: http://www.scribd.com/doc/13432732/Como-baixar-imagens-LANDSAT-e-CBERS-do-INPE Ainda não li com calma a licença de uso, mas não creio que seja dificil conseguirmos autorização. Se eu me lembro direto, você não pode criar imagems derivados (eg, mapas) baseados nas imagems satélite CBERS. http://www.dgi.inpe.br/pedidos_CBERS/licenca-CBERS.htm diz: 2.9 Em qualquer caso de uso de imagens CBERS, inclusive imagens derivadas ou imagens classificadas, o usuário deverá indicar de forma clara e legível a natureza do produto original CBERS, e mencionar expressamente o INPE como o detentor do direito autoral das imagens. Talvez um source:CBERS tag seria sufficiente? -- Johan Dahlin ___ Talk-br mailing list Talk-br@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-br ___ Talk-br mailing list Talk-br@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-br -- Ronaldo Maia ___ Talk-br mailing list Talk-br@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-br
[Talk-de] OSM in Sachsen verbessern
Hallo, um es kurz zu machen, würde ich gerne OSM in Sachsen verbessern. Vielleicht möchte ja jemand mit anpacken? Hintergründe,Details+Diskussion gibts dazu hier: http://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?id=7495 (kommt ihr mit eurem normalen OSM Login rein) Bitte lasst uns erstmal im Forum diskutieren, da ist die Einstiegshürde geringer und nicht jeder muss auf Talk-DE sein. Gruß Matthias ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] source:maxspeed=DE:urban
Johannes Huesing johan...@huesing.name wrote: So erspart man sich explizit anzugeben ob eine Straße innerhalb oder außerhalb einer Stadt ist (weil Polygon umlegen nicht (zuverlaessig) funktioniert). Aber das ist doch von hinten durch die Brust ins Auge, Habe ich richtig verstanden, dass Du damit sagen willst, dass es für nicht funktionierende Polygone keine Ersatzlösungen zu geben hat, sondern die Polygone funktionstüchtig gemacht werden sollen? Nein, das Zugehörigkeitstag sollte nur nicht maxspeed heißen, sondern geschlossene_ortschaft=yes oder was weiß ich. Aha! Damit ist auch der von Dir nicht verstande Rest gegegenstandslos. Denn der ging davon aus, dass Du ein funktionierendes Ortschaft-Polygon hättest haben wollen. ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] source:maxspeed=DE:urban
Nein, das Zugehörigkeitstag sollte nur nicht maxspeed heißen, sondern geschlossene_ortschaft=yes oder was weiß ich. Hallo, ich fände ein unabhängiges Tag auch sinnvoller. Das würde auch gleich den maxspeed-Krieg mit lösen. Über solch ein Tag kann man sich ein maxspeed ableiten, wenn keines eingetragen ist. Ist es innerhalb der Ortschaft, dann 50, ansonsten 100 oder bei Autobahn unbeschränkt. Durch das extra Tag bleibt aber maxspeed davon unbeeinflusst. Weiterhin kann man es fürs Routing nutzen, etc. Der Vorteil gegenüber einem source:maxspeed ist der, dass die Höchstgeschwindigkeit Innerorts auch durch ein Schild geregelt sein kann. Dann müsste man source:maxspeed=sign eintragen. Dies trifft aber auf alle Straßen zu und charakterisiert damit keine innerortige Straße. Auch das Eintragen eines unabhängigen Tags ist deutlich einfacher. Man muss nicht erst schauen, ob dort eine Höchstgeschwindigkeit ausgeschildert ist, sondern kann jeder Straße innerhalb des Ortes das Tag geben. Daraus ergibt sich eine deutlich schnellere Verbreitung. Bei all den Vorteilen sehe ich derzeit noch keine Nachteile gegenüber einem source:maxspeed, lasse mich aber auch gerne eines besseren belehren. Viele Grüße, aighes -- View this message in context: http://gis.638310.n2.nabble.com/source-maxspeed-DE-urban-tp5045156p5050685.html Sent from the Germany mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] source:maxspeed=DE:urban
Am 14. Mai 2010 14:17 schrieb aighes h.scholl...@googlemail.com: Hallo, ich fände ein unabhängiges Tag auch sinnvoller. Das würde auch gleich den maxspeed-Krieg mit lösen. ach so? Weil man dann gar nicht mehr weiss, wie die Höchstgeschwindigkeit ist? Weil man eine Tabelle bräuchte, um weltweit die default-maxspeeds umzusetzen? Damit wäre die Berücksichtigung der maxspeeds beim routing erstmal wieder nicht funktionieren, bis jemand eine Lösung (programmseitig) implementiert. Die jetzige Lösung ist nicht unbedingt geeignet, um innerorts global festzustellen. Wozu braucht man das eigentlich? Interessiert nicht die Höchstgeschwindigkeit viel mehr als der innerorts Fakt? Über solch ein Tag kann man sich ein maxspeed ableiten, wenn keines eingetragen ist. Ist es innerhalb der Ortschaft, dann 50, ansonsten 100 oder bei Autobahn unbeschränkt. Durch das extra Tag bleibt aber maxspeed davon unbeeinflusst. Weiterhin kann man es fürs Routing nutzen, etc. Sehr deutschlandzentrierte Denkweise. Was bringt einem ein innerorts-Tag beim Routing nochmal? Auch das Eintragen eines unabhängigen Tags ist deutlich einfacher. Man muss nicht erst schauen, ob dort eine Höchstgeschwindigkeit ausgeschildert ist, sondern kann jeder Straße innerhalb des Ortes das Tag geben. Daraus ergibt sich eine deutlich schnellere Verbreitung. nur los. Das innerorts-tag kannst Du ja gerne zusätzlich zum source:maxspeed eintragen. Letzteres hat aber z.B. den Vorteil, dass es bereits verbreitet _ist_. Und in allen Anwendungen ohne Zusatzaufwand funktioniert. Gruß Martin ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] source:maxspeed=DE:urban
Hallo, Tirkon schrieb: Irgendwann kam jemand auf die Idee, dass diese Höchstgeschwindigkeit durch ein explizites Schild angekündigt werden kann oder durch eine geschlossene Ortschaft bedingt werden kann. Daher erfand er: maxspeed=DE:urban Der Vorteil liegt darin, dass man nichts ändern muss, wenn der Gesetztgeber mal auf die Idee kommt die Höchstgeschwindigkeit in geschlossenen Ortschaften zu verändern oder für verschiedene Fahrzeugkategorien unterschiedlich festzulegen. Dass das nicht ganz abwegig ist, zeigt ein Blick auf andere Länder, wo die Höchstgeschwindigkeit innerorts in der Vergangenheit von 60 auf 50 herunter gesetzt wurde. Bei maxspeed=50 müssten in diesem Fall alle Elemente mit diesem Tag überprüft und ggf. angepasst werden. Nur dort, wo das Straßenstück in einer geschlossen Ortschaft liegt, dürfte geändert werden. Solange es nicht möglich ist, Straßen als in geschlossener Ortschaft zu taggen, halte ich das DE:urban für die sinnvollere, weil zukunftsträchtigere Lösung. Gruß Rainer ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] source:maxspeed=DE:urban
Am 14. Mai 2010 14:42 schrieb Rainer Kluge rklug...@web.de: geschlossene Ortschaft bedingt werden kann. Daher erfand er: maxspeed=DE:urban Der Vorteil liegt darin, dass man nichts ändern muss, wenn der Gesetztgeber mal auf die Idee kommt die Höchstgeschwindigkeit in geschlossenen Ortschaften zu verändern oder für verschiedene Fahrzeugkategorien unterschiedlich festzulegen. Dass das nicht ganz abwegig ist, zeigt ein Blick auf andere Länder, wo die Höchstgeschwindigkeit innerorts in der Vergangenheit von 60 auf 50 herunter gesetzt wurde. der Nachteil ist, das es gegenwärtig nicht funktioniert. Die angesprochene Änderung lässt sich ja (im extrem seltenen Fall einer Änderung der Default-Höchstgeschwindigkeiten) mihilfe der source-tags automatisch durchführen, und ist daher problemlos möglich. Bei maxspeed=50 müssten in diesem Fall alle Elemente mit diesem Tag überprüft und ggf. angepasst werden. Nur dort, wo das Straßenstück in einer geschlossen Ortschaft liegt, dürfte geändert werden. Solange es nicht möglich ist, Straßen als in geschlossener Ortschaft zu taggen, halte ich das DE:urban für die sinnvollere, weil zukunftsträchtigere Lösung. ließ am besten nochmal den Thread durch, da steht das gegenwärtige Prinzip beschrieben, Gruß Martin ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] source:maxspeed=DE:urban
Hallo, es gibt Leute die lieber die maxspeed aus dem urban, etc. ziehen möchten und Leute die sie aus dem maxspeed holen wollen. Jeder kann sich frei aussuchen woher er diese Daten bezieht. Das maxspeed bleibt ja vom innerorts-TAG unberührt. Bei den Zahlenwerten ging ich von Deutschland aus, wenn du die maxspeed darüber ermitteln möchtest, musst du dir gedanken machen, wie man das umsetzt, ich jedenfalls würde den Weg über maxspeed gehen. Das alles ist aber nicht Kern meines Vorschlags. Es ging darum, dass über source:maxspeed=urban nicht alle innortigen Straßen getaggt werden können und das source:maxspeed=sign dies auch nicht beheben kann. Was nützt es, wenn ein Notbehelf zwar implementiert ist und ohne mehraufwand arbeitet, aber es nicht alles erfasst. Es ist ja auch nicht so, dass es nu wenige Straßen betrifft. Es macht schon einen Unterschied, ob eine Bundesstraße innerorts ist oder nicht, zumindest wenn mal mit dem Fahrrad unterwegs ist. -- View this message in context: http://gis.638310.n2.nabble.com/source-maxspeed-DE-urban-tp5045156p5050826.html Sent from the Germany mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] source:maxspeed=DE:urban
aighes schrieb: Der Vorteil gegenüber einem source:maxspeed ist der, dass die Höchstgeschwindigkeit Innerorts auch durch ein Schild geregelt sein kann. Dann müsste man source:maxspeed=sign eintragen. Dies trifft aber auf alle Straßen zu und charakterisiert damit keine innerortige Straße. Warum kompliziert, wenn es auch einfach geht? Wenn einStraßenabschnitt mit einer Geschwindigkeit getaggt ist, kann man davon ausgehen, dass da ein Schild stehen. Was soll da noch extra ein tag für ein Verkehrszeichen? Gruß Volker ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
[Talk-de] Diskussion über Geotagging in Leipzig am Dienstag
Hallo, die Leipzig School of Media lädt am Dienstag zu einer Diskussionsveranstaltung über Geotagging im Mediencampus in Leipzig http://osm.org/go/0MGgzJaxS- ein. Fabian. -- Forwarded message -- Date: Tue, 11 May 2010 14:55:11 +0200 From: Leipzig School of Media gGmbH i...@leipzigschoolofmedia.de To: fschm...@informatik.uni-leipzig.de Subject: Einladung zur Diskussion über Geotagging und die Folgen Sehr geehrte Damen und Herren, hiermit laden wir Sie herzlich ein zu einer Diskussion über Geotagging und ihre Folgen: Die Vermessung der Welt - Graswurzel-Initiative contra Google-Monopol. Geotagging – die ortsbezogene Zuordnung von Informationen – ist für die einen willkommene Hilfe im Marketingprozess, für die anderen der endgültige Schritt in den Überwachungsstaat. Google ist drauf und dran, mit Hilfe von Google maps, Google Earth, Google Street View sowie mit der Erfassung von W-LAN-Daten ein vollständiges Bild unserer Welt zu erstellen – zur Freude von Marketingleuten, zum Entsetzen von Datenschützern. Die Open-Street-Maps-Bewegung hält dagegen. Ziel der Graswurzel-Initiative: Durch die Zusammenarbeit der Projektmitglieder soll eine freie Geodatenbank entstehen, die weltweit allen Menschen ohne Einschränkungen zur Verfügung steht. Experten beleuchten die technischen Grundlagen und die Chancen des Geotagging, zeigen mögliche Gefahren auf und diskutieren die Konsequenzen mit den Gästen. Diskutanten: · Dr. Sören Auer, Studiengangsverantwortlicher des Masterstudiengangs Content Media Engineering an der Leipzig School of Media · Markus Beckedahl, Betreiber von netzpolitik.org (angefragt) · Peter Schink, Geschäftsführer der Agentur Mediati · Falk Zscheile von OpenStreetMap Moderation: · Michael Geffken, Geschäftsführer der Leipzig School of Media. Dienstag, 18. Mai 2010 | 19:00 Uhr - 21:00 Uhr Die Teilnahme ist kostenlos. Weitere Informationen und die Möglichkeit der Anmeldung finden Sie auf der Website der Leipzig School of Media. Gern können Sie sich auch per E-Mail (i...@leipzigschoolofmedia)bei uns anmelden. Wir freuen uns auf Ihr Kommen. Ihr Team der Leipzig School of Media -- Leipzig School of Media gemeinnützige Gesellschaft für akademische Weiterbildung mbH Mediencampus | Poetenweg 28 | 04155 Leipzig Telefon: +49 341 56296-701 Telefax: +49 341 56296-791 E-Mail:i...@leipzigschoolofmedia.de Internet: www.leipzigschoolofmedia.de Amtsgericht Leipzig HRB 24298 Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: Prof. Dr. Gerhard Heyer Geschäftsführer: Michael Geffken Sparkasse Leipzig | Konto-Nr. 110 088 2010 | BLZ 860 555 92 ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] source:maxspeed=DE:urban
Am 14. Mai 2010 15:44 schrieb Volker aeon...@gmx.de: Warum kompliziert, wenn es auch einfach geht? Wenn einStraßenabschnitt mit einer Geschwindigkeit getaggt ist, kann man davon ausgehen, dass da ein Schild stehen. Was soll da noch extra ein tag für ein Verkehrszeichen? das steht lang und breit im Wiki und im Talk-Archiv. Gruß Martin ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Lastenseilbahn
Karl Eichwalder k...@gnu.franken.de wrote: Gerne :) -- wegen des nebeldunsts ist die person aber nur schwer zu erkennen: http://www.flickr.com/photos/keichwa/3900592310/in/set-72157622081037621/ Diese Personenbeförderung sieht aber eher illegal aus. Allerdings ist das wohl häufig. Von Personal in Alpenvereinshütten hatte ich das auch schon gehört und das war eine Lastenseilbahn in die ich nicht freiwillig eingestiegen wäre. Gleichwohl sollte man darauf achten, dass diese nicht-öffentlichen materialseilbahnen grundsätzlich anders dargestellt werden als die normalen touristischen seilbahnen. Mein Vorschlag war ja bereits das durch zusätzliche Tags zu machen. Gruss Sven -- Trotz der zunehmenden Verbreitung von Linux erfreut sich der Bär, und - dank Knut - insbesondere der Eisbär, deutlich größerer Beliebtheit als der Pinguin. (Gefunden bei http://telepolis.de/) /me is gig...@ircnet, http://sven.gegg.us/ on the Web ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] OSM in Sachsen verbessern
Matthias Meißer wrote: Bitte lasst uns erstmal im Forum diskutieren, da ist die Einstiegshürde geringer und nicht jeder muss auf Talk-DE sein. Muss auch so keiner. Kennst du gmane schon? Gruß Manuel ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Relationsdarstellung auf OSM-Karte
habe mapgen.pl 1.05 veröffentlicht. die neue version kann das. On Sun, 2010-05-09 at 16:18 +0200, Stephan Wolff wrote: Moin, ich suche ein Tool, dass die Elemente einer Relation mit ihrer Rolle auf dem Hintergrund einer OSM-Karte darstellt. Die Darstellung könnte sehr ähnlich der des OSM Relation Analyzer (http://betaplace.emaitie.de/webapps.relation-analyzer/) sein, nur sollte die Farbkodierung vom Element role der Relation abhängen und die zur Relation gehörenden POIs sollten ebenfalls erscheinen. Gibt es so etwas schon? Das Tool muss dazu nicht jede Relation verstehen, sondern kann einfach für jedes verschiedene Element als role eine andere Farbe nehmen. Für Wanderwege könnte der Hauptweg mit leerem role-Element in einer Farbe, Wege mit role=alternative in einer anderen Farbe, Punkte mit role=map als ein Symbol und Punkte mit role=bus_stop als ein anderes Symbol erscheinen. Viele Grüße Stephan ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
