On 28 Sep 2017 2:57 am, "Andy Townsend" wrote:
It depends - if you want to do a "quick search for something" then an
equivalent to overpass turbo might be an option, but in the real world what
you'd _actually_ want to do is a local database query. Unfortunately that
side of things seems to be c
On 26/09/2017 18:08, Yuri Astrakhan wrote:
When data consumers want to get a link to corresponding wikipedia
article, doing that with wikipedia[:xx] tags is straightforward. Doing
the same with wikidata requires additional pointless and time
consuming abrakadabra.
no, you cl
On 27/09/2017 19:47, Marc Gemis wrote:
Is "the same geographical area" relevant ? Why should a data consumer
use a separate datebase to identify the brand of an item ?
Simply because some people had suggested that "brand:wikidata" was
unnecessary because you could always work out what brand a
sent from a phone
> On 27. Sep 2017, at 23:09, Yuri Astrakhan wrote:
>
> Martin, that specific Wikidata item may have some, possibly incomplete data,
> that can be easily fixed, but that's irrelevant. As I keep saying - the
> wikidata and wikipedia tags are no different - both point to the s
I have been fixing nodes that have wikipedia but no wikidata tags [1], and
even the first two randomly picked nodes had identical problem - article
was renamed (twice!) without leaving redirects - node 1136510320
Try it yourself - run the query and see what the it points to.
[1]
https://wiki.open
> I hope everyone realizes that there are Wikidata items for which there
> is no Wikipedia article.
> So you cannot always find it via Wikipedia tags.
> And at least JOSM shows a human readable name of a Wikidata item
> besides the Q-number. I think iD does this as well.
> m. (who manually adds W
Unlikely, I'm sure, but you could have two brands with the same name on
the same high street. Being antipodean doesn't define their differences.
DaveF.
On 27/09/2017 15:35, John F. Eldredge wrote:
The spatial information will tell you where each business location is;
it is not sufficient to t
>
> > Specifying Q125054 is the same as specifying "Aldi". If needed/wanted,
> it could be replaced with the more specific wikidata entry like Aldi Nord.
>
> no, it’s not the same, because this wikidata object suggests that there is
> one company, Aldi GmbH & Co. KG, with 2 seats, and one logo.
> S
sent from a phone
> On 27. Sep 2017, at 22:04, Yuri Astrakhan wrote:
>
> Martin, you cannot make a general claim based on a single value.
I didn’t make a general claim based on this, I said it’s another example.
> Specifying Q125054 is the same as specifying "Aldi". If needed/wanted, it
sent from a phone
On 27. Sep 2017, at 21:58, Andy Mabbett wrote:
>>> the only wikidata example I can
>>> find is https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/25716765
>
>> which btw. is another good example of misleading and wrong information via
>> wikidata.
>
> No, it's an example of wrong data in OS
On 27/09/17 20:56, Yuri Astrakhan wrote:
> That formed no part of the early discussions on how wikidata should
> work? I bowed out when the discussions were going down a path I did not
> find to be at all useful. The current offering is certainly a lot more
> 'organised' than those
That's exactly what we are trying to do. Add another tag --
brand:wikidata=Q550258
On Wed, Sep 27, 2017 at 4:10 PM, yvecai wrote:
> Excuse me, but what does wikidata do in this discussion ?
> If brand=wendy is different tham brand=wendy, and if somebody has a
> problem with is it, why not chang
Excuse me, but what does wikidata do in this discussion ?
If brand=wendy is different tham brand=wendy, and if somebody has a
problem with is it, why not change the key, values or add another tag,
document it and voila ?
Yves
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Martin, you cannot make a general claim based on a single value. Users can
enter "Aldi", or "Aldi Nord" or "Aldi Sud". With different capitalization
and dashes, and with or without dots, and god knows what other creative
ways to misspell it. Specifying Q125054 is the same as specifying "Aldi".
If
On 27 September 2017 at 20:50, Martin Koppenhoefer
wrote:
> On 27. Sep 2017, at 17:57, Andy Townsend wrote:
>> the only wikidata example I can
>> find is https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/25716765
> which btw. is another good example of misleading and wrong information via
> wikidata.
No, it'
>
> That formed no part of the early discussions on how wikidata should
> work? I bowed out when the discussions were going down a path I did not
> find to be at all useful. The current offering is certainly a lot more
> 'organised' than those original discussions.
Getting the initial points acros
sent from a phone
> On 27. Sep 2017, at 17:57, Andy Townsend wrote:
>
> In Germany both Aldi Nord and Aldi Sud operate, but these tend to be tagged
> in OSM as operator rather than brand, and the only wikidata example I can
> find is https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/25716765
which btw. i
Hi Frederik,
That is helpful. Let us know when you have re-executed the analysis and
posted the results.
A list of IDs per county would be helpful. We can work together as US
community to identify viable sources for re-assessing the correct names, as
well as organizing mapping efforts for surveyi
On 27/09/17 19:46, Yuri Astrakhan wrote:
> Lester, first and foremost, Wikidata is a system to connect the same
> Wikipedia articles in different languages. The "read this article in
> another language" links on the left side comes from Wikidata. Wikidata
> has developed beyond this initial goal,
Marc, I think you are confusing the goal and the means to get there. I
agree - the goal is to be able to globally find all Wendy's, so that when I
travel, I still can search for familiar brands. So the same brand should
have the same ID everywhere. That ID can be either textual or numeric.
Both
Am 27.09.2017 um 20:47 schrieb Marc Gemis:
>> Can anyone think of an example where two unrelated brands share the same
>> name and category of business in the same geographical area?
> Is "the same geographical area" relevant ? Why should a data consumer
> use a separate datebase to identify the
So you do not agree with the Automated Edits code of conduct ?
If an automated edit takes place in a country, why do you expect that
that community follows the talk mailing list or even speak English ?
People has the right to know that some stranger starts making changes
in their area without being
Yves, see above - I listed 3 problems that I would like to solve. Do you
agree with them?
-- Dr. Yuri :)
On Wed, Sep 27, 2017 at 2:44 PM, Yves wrote:
> I add a look at http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:brand:wikidata
> Wow.
> So, this tag is about adding an external reference that explains
>
> Can anyone think of an example where two unrelated brands share the same
> name and category of business in the same geographical area?
Is "the same geographical area" relevant ? Why should a data consumer
use a separate datebase to identify the brand of an item ?
Suppose I want to find all "
Lester, first and foremost, Wikidata is a system to connect the same
Wikipedia articles in different languages. The "read this article in
another language" links on the left side comes from Wikidata. Wikidata has
developed beyond this initial goal, but it remains the only way to identify
Wikipedia
I add a look at http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:brand:wikidata
Wow.
So, this tag is about adding an external reference that explains what the tag
is? Really? This is not a joke?
OSM is sick, please somebody call a doctor.
Yves
Le 27 septembre 2017 19:14:53 GMT+02:00, Mark Wagner a
é
On 27/09/17 17:40, Andy Mabbett wrote:
>> Not on a number of articles I've recently been looking at while checking
>> out the CURRENT wikidata offering. I've not found wikidata id's on the
>> wikipedia articles I looked at ... but wikidata does seem something I
>> should perhaps reassess.
> You not
On Wed, 27 Sep 2017 06:49:40 -0500 (CDT)
Richard Fairhurst wrote:
> Andy Mabbett wrote:
> > in different parts of the world
>
> IIRC OSM stores spatial information. I might be wrong.
>
Two examples that can't be resolved by a spatial query:
1) There is a business near me named "Maxwell Hous
On 27 September 2017 at 17:31, Lester Caine wrote:
> On 27/09/17 16:48, Andy Mabbett wrote:
>> On 27 September 2017 at 16:06, Lester Caine wrote:
>>> critically I'd prefer to see the wikipedia pages containing a link to
>>> the wikidata entry!
>>
>> They do.
>
> Not on a number of articles I've
On 27/09/17 16:48, Andy Mabbett wrote:
> On 27 September 2017 at 16:06, Lester Caine wrote:
>
>>> While it is not yet complete, in what way is Wikdiata failing to be
>>> sufficiently reliable?
>>
>> Much of the work I did on wikipedia was stripped for all sorts of
>> reasons.
>
> My question was
I think we should re-start with the definition of the problems we are
(hopefully) trying to solve, or else we might end up too far in the
existential realm, which is fun to discuss, but should be left for another
thread.
* Problem #1: In my analysis of OSM data, wikipedia tags quickly go stale
be
On 27/09/2017 15:35, John F. Eldredge wrote:
The spatial information will tell you where each business location is;
it is not sufficient to tell you whether these are multiple locations
of the same brand, or two unrelated brands that share the same name
and category of business.
Can anyone th
2017-09-27 17:45 GMT+02:00 Andy Mabbett :
> On 27 September 2017 at 16:00, Christoph Hormann wrote:
> > On Wednesday 27 September 2017, Frederik Ramm wrote:
> means that by
> >> extension I also have to welcome "amenity:wikidata=Q123456" on
> >> something that is, say, an ice cream parlour beca
On 27 September 2017 at 16:06, Lester Caine wrote:
>> While it is not yet complete, in what way is Wikdiata failing to be
>> sufficiently reliable?
>
> Much of the work I did on wikipedia was stripped for all sorts of
> reasons.
My question was about Wikidata's reliability, not yours ;-)
> crit
On 27 September 2017 at 16:00, Christoph Hormann wrote:
> On Wednesday 27 September 2017, Frederik Ramm wrote:
>>
>> In theory, almost everything we map could be expressed by a Wikidata
>> ID. If welcoming a Wikidata link on a city place node means that by
>> extension I also have to welcome "amen
2017-09-27 16:56 GMT+02:00 Andy Mabbett :
> On 26 September 2017 at 21:39, Martin Koppenhoefer
> wrote:
>
> >> This might also mean that
> >> you have to discuss it via Telegram, Facebook, email, IRC, etc.
> >> depending on where that local community is.
> >>
> >> The talk mailing list is not suf
On 27/09/17 14:40, Andy Mabbett wrote:
> On 27 September 2017 at 14:28, Lester Caine wrote:
>
>> wikidata provides a section which documents a range of LINKS which
>> identify the same object on other databases. It would be nice if there
>> was a stable identity on OSM that would populate an entr
On Wednesday 27 September 2017, Frederik Ramm wrote:
>
> In theory, almost everything we map could be expressed by a Wikidata
> ID. If welcoming a Wikidata link on a city place node means that by
> extension I also have to welcome "amenity:wikidata=Q123456" on
> something that is, say, an ice cream
On 26 September 2017 at 21:39, Martin Koppenhoefer
wrote:
>> This might also mean that
>> you have to discuss it via Telegram, Facebook, email, IRC, etc.
>> depending on where that local community is.
>>
>> The talk mailing list is not sufficient.
> I think this is problematic. If the local comm
The spatial information will tell you where each business location is; it
is not sufficient to tell you whether these are multiple locations of the
same brand, or two unrelated brands that share the same name and category
of business.
On September 27, 2017 6:51:32 AM Richard Fairhurst
wrote
On Wed, 27 Sep 2017 15:59:34 +0200
Frederik Ramm wrote:
>
> "amenity:wikidata=Q123456" on something that is, say, an ice cream
> parlour because Q123456 is the generic Wikidata category for ice
> cream parlours
I thought wikidata tags were for unique objets, which usage I believe
is welcome... If
On 27 September 2017 at 14:59, Frederik Ramm wrote:
> We generally discourage foreign keys
We do? Citation please.
> If welcoming a Wikidata link on a city place node means that by
> extension I also have to welcome "amenity:wikidata=Q123456" on something
> that is, say, an ice cream parlour be
I fail to understand how an external database can link to an OSM
location in case we do not allow foreign keys.
I know there is some vague "find something with a name similar to X in
some area Y" kind of strategy, but did somebody ever implemented such
a thing ?
I doubt that "area Y" is always know
2017-09-27 15:59 GMT+02:00 Frederik Ramm :
> Hi,
>
> On 27.09.2017 15:37, Simon Poole wrote:
> > My take is that it adds a nearly impossible to maintain (consider your
> > own Woolworth's example), non-speaking, foreign key
>
> We generally discourage foreign keys (that are only usable together wi
On 27 September 2017 at 14:37, Simon Poole wrote:
> Am 27.09.2017 um 15:00 schrieb Andy Mabbett:
>> Tim Berners Lee coined the "Five Stars of Open Data"
>>
>> http://5stardata.info/en/
> You are assuming
> a) that an arbitrary best practice definition is relevant for OSM
It's not "arbitrar
Hi,
On 27.09.2017 15:37, Simon Poole wrote:
> My take is that it adds a nearly impossible to maintain (consider your
> own Woolworth's example), non-speaking, foreign key
We generally discourage foreign keys (that are only usable together with
a different data set and that are not signposted loca
On 27 September 2017 at 14:28, Lester Caine wrote:
> wikidata provides a section which documents a range of LINKS which
> identify the same object on other databases. It would be nice if there
> was a stable identity on OSM that would populate an entry in THAT list.
Indeed so, but OSM does not,
Am 27.09.2017 um 15:00 schrieb Andy Mabbett:
> ...
>> Why would that matter to OSM?
> It may not, It certainly matters to OSM's users.
>
> Tim Berners Lee coined the "Five Stars of Open Data"
>
> http://5stardata.info/en/
>
> defining best practice in publishing open data. OSM already meets t
( Thought I hit 'reply list' :) )
On 26/09/17 23:47, Yuri Astrakhan wrote:
> Here is a query that finds all wikidata IDs frequently used in
> "brand:wikidata", and shows OSM objects whose "wikidata" points to the
> same. I would like to replace all such wikidata/wikipedia tags with the
> correspon
On Wed, 2017-09-27 at 09:18 +0200, Jo wrote:
> 2017-09-27 8:30 GMT+02:00 Safwat Halaby :
>
> > On Tue, 2017-09-26 at 11:46 +0200, Jo wrote:
> >
> > > Then load that in PostGIS and create scripts to read GTFS into
> > > PostGIS.
> > >
> > > Then compare the data in the DB and produce output and i
On 27 September 2017 at 12:49, Richard Fairhurst wrote:
> Andy Mabbett wrote:
>> in different parts of the world
>
> IIRC OSM stores spatial information. I might be wrong.
For some reason I can't determine, you quote me out-of-context; the
context was that we were discussing the assertion that
On 27 September 2017 at 12:57, Simon Poole wrote:
>> For example, until the UK version went titsup a few years back, there
>> were chains of stores in the UK and in Australia, each called
>> "Woolworths". Though they had common roots, they were not the same.
> Why would that matter to OSM?
It m
I think my last two replies never got through and were sent privately
instead. Here's a rephrasing. (which is possibly better anyways).
__
On Wed, 2017-09-27 at 10:53 +0200, Marc Gemis wrote:
> isn't it possible that the 2017 contains data from e.g. 2014, which
Hi,
On 27.09.2017 06:43, Martijn van Exel wrote:
> In your email from Aug 28 you proposed to wait a while as a first step
> to gather some feedback on your assessment. Did you receive any? When do
> you think you want to proceed with the redaction? Anything we can do to
> help?
I haven't received
Am 27.09.2017 um 13:30 schrieb Andy Mabbett:
>
> For example, until the UK version went titsup a few years back, there
> were chains of stores in the UK and in Australia, each called
> "Woolworths". Though they had common roots, they were not the same.
>
>
Why would that matter to OSM?
Given tha
Andy Mabbett wrote:
> in different parts of the world
IIRC OSM stores spatial information. I might be wrong.
Richard
--
Sent from: http://gis.19327.n8.nabble.com/General-Discussion-f5171242.html
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On 27 September 2017 at 10:07, Simon Poole wrote:
> While I can understand adding WP and WD tags to objects of note, why on
> earth would we want to add all this redundancy to OSM objects at all?
The question incudes the false premise that this is redundancy: It is
not, it adds disambiguation.
On 26 September 2017 at 23:47, Yuri Astrakhan wrote:
> Here is a query that finds all wikidata IDs frequently used in
> "brand:wikidata", and shows OSM objects whose "wikidata" points to the same.
> I would like to replace all such wikidata/wikipedia tags with the
> corresponding brand:wikidata/b
+1
Until there is a (vector) map that allows you to change the preferred
language dynamically or match against a priority list of languages from
the user, the current principle of local language = display language is
simply the best option.
On 2017년 09월 26일 23:00, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:
While I can understand adding WP and WD tags to objects of note, why on
earth would we want to add all this redundancy to OSM objects at all?
Particularly given that object type + brand(s) should essentially always
be unique, anybody that wants to look up WD keys could do so via a
simple external t
If there is a conflict regarding position or tags, they should be resolved
by a human mapper. If I were to apply the newer is better approach, we
would constantly be reverting back to the positions the operators think
their stops are at.
It's important to respect the mappers work, because without
Note: I'm replying to an old mail. If you don't have it. You can find
it here:
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2017-June/078181.html
"The real face of MAPS.ME edits and notes - a short analysis"
>The price to reproduce all the on-the-ground mappers'
> contributions
we have is
> like
On Wed, 2017-09-27 at 09:12 +0200, Jo wrote:
> Deleting data on OpenStreetMap and replacing it by imported data is
> obviously never the acceptable approach.
>
> What I don't understand is why you don't create something that
> compares the
> latest version of all the bus stops in OSM with the late
2017-09-27 8:30 GMT+02:00 Safwat Halaby :
> On Tue, 2017-09-26 at 11:46 +0200, Jo wrote:
>
> > Then load that in PostGIS and create scripts to read GTFS into
> > PostGIS.
> >
> > Then compare the data in the DB and produce output and ideally a UI.
> >
> > I started doing something like that here:
Hello,
Thank you for this query, which will be very useful for detecting these
issues. I'm not sure if this is possible in the current state of
Wikidata, but can't we retrieve all shop chains brands, and then query
OSM to find object having wikidata tag pointing to one of the brands ?
If data
Deleting data on OpenStreetMap and replacing it by imported data is
obviously never the acceptable approach.
What I don't understand is why you don't create something that compares the
latest version of all the bus stops in OSM with the latest version of the
GTFS data from upstream.
Why compare w
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