[OSM-talk] Should roads be connected to all types of crossing ways?

2010-02-14 Thread Nathan Edgars II
I was told at http://trac.openstreetmap.org/ticket/2708 to take this here. Basically, the TIGER import has put a lot of duplicate nodes where highways cross railways, power and pipe lines, and administrative boundaries. The former should definitely be connected, but it seems that power lines,

[OSM-talk] Help! Changeset reverted without explanation

2010-02-26 Thread Nathan Edgars II
http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/lkrevert has reverted one of my changesets. I contacted this user, but doubt I'll get a response, since this is obviously not the primary account. I don't have the tools to undo this revert, and that's probably not a good idea anyway without some sort of

Re: [OSM-talk] Help! Changeset reverted without explanation

2010-02-26 Thread Nathan Edgars II
Oops - forgot to choose 'reply to all'. Sorry Fred for the duplicate. On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 4:03 AM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: Nathan, Nathan Edgars II wrote: http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/lkrevert has reverted one of my changesets. I contacted this user, but doubt I'll

Re: [OSM-talk] Help! Changeset reverted without explanation

2010-02-26 Thread Nathan Edgars II
Frederik Ramm wrote: However, Nathan, I see that for example in this way http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/12515816/history you had removed *all* the tags from the way. I haven't investigated further but maybe the reverter had to assume that there was some editing error? I deleted that

Re: [OSM-talk] Help! Changeset reverted without explanation

2010-02-26 Thread Nathan Edgars II
It's been a day with no response from lkrevert. Can somebody please take care of this? On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 3:56 AM, Nathan Edgars II nerou...@gmail.com wrote: http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/lkrevert has reverted one of my changesets. I contacted this user, but doubt I'll get a response

Re: [OSM-talk] Help! Changeset reverted without explanation

2010-02-27 Thread Nathan Edgars II
Anyone? On Sat, Feb 27, 2010 at 12:37 AM, Nathan Edgars II nerou...@gmail.com wrote: It's been a day with no response from lkrevert. Can somebody please take care of this? On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 3:56 AM, Nathan Edgars II nerou...@gmail.com wrote: http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/lkrevert

Re: [OSM-talk] Help! Changeset reverted without explanation

2010-02-27 Thread Nathan Edgars II
Richard Weait wrote: On Sat, Feb 27, 2010 at 12:37 AM, Nathan Edgars II neroute2 at gmail.com wrote: It's been a day with no response from lkrevert. Can somebody please take care of this? I generally allow other mappers a week to respond to site-mail before I send another note. They might

Re: [OSM-talk] Help! Changeset reverted without explanation

2010-02-27 Thread Nathan Edgars II
Richard Weait wrote: What is in this (big) changeset that ikrevert reverted? I fixed up the numbered routes in Columbia. You'll see that currently some of the primary highways just dead-end, because TIGER often doesn't have the correct routings for numbered routes. Restore the changeset and you

Re: [OSM-talk] Help! Changeset reverted without explanation

2010-02-27 Thread Nathan Edgars II
On Sat, Feb 27, 2010 at 6:05 PM, Apollinaris Schoell ascho...@gmail.com wrote: On 27 Feb 2010, at 14:33 , Nathan Edgars II wrote: And a week from now half the ways in the changeset will probably have been edited, making a restoration very complicated. Is it the intent here that those

[OSM-talk] USGS has no problem using information from copyrighted maps

2010-04-08 Thread Nathan Edgars II
First, I'm not trying to start an argument or even a civilized discussion about our policies in this matter. I just found this interesting. http://geonames.usgs.gov/pls/gnispublic/f?p=gnispq:3:::NO::P3_FID:1196597 is Rosslyn Station, a former railway station in Pennsylvania. The source cited for

[OSM-talk] Months-old vandalism needs to be taken care of

2010-05-04 Thread Nathan Edgars II
In southern Illinois - http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=37.777lon=-88.689zoom=10layers=B000FTF - user bhj867 has added a number of new highways, most notably the motorways at Murphysboro, Carbondale, Marion, and Harrisburg, and the trunk from Eldorado to New Haven. But it appears that these are

Re: [OSM-talk] Months-old vandalism needs to be taken care of

2010-05-05 Thread Nathan Edgars II
Response from bhj867: Delete everything except the bypass, which is finished except the Interchanges, and the Rollie Moore Drive. south of town. Also Route 45 IS 4 lane through the city all the way to ELdorado, everything else is not real. Just A few proposed roads and crap that was added on.

Re: [OSM-talk] [Talk-us] Months-old vandalism needs to be taken care of

2010-05-05 Thread Nathan Edgars II
On Wed, May 5, 2010 at 11:42 AM, Tyler Ritchie tyler.ritc...@gmail.com wrote: If someone is going going to truly vandalize a map I wouldn't expect them to make the detailed map that is West Harrisburg. I would expect giant words spelled out using streets, and changes to existing names and towns

Re: [OSM-talk] [Talk-us] Months-old vandalism needs to be taken care of

2010-05-05 Thread Nathan Edgars II
On Wed, May 5, 2010 at 1:20 PM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: Nathan, Nathan Edgars II wrote: Anyway, could someone please help me revert? I lack the coding skills to do the automated part, but can do the resulting cleanup. If you can try to give a slightly more algorithmic

Re: [OSM-talk] [Talk-us] Months-old vandalism needs to be taken care of

2010-05-06 Thread Nathan Edgars II
On Wed, May 5, 2010 at 6:57 PM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: Just to be safe - this user has been active on 10 days between 13 September 09 and 22 April 10, uploading over 100 changesets altogether. All these edits are to be removed, regardless of whether someone else touched the

Re: [OSM-talk] Villain?

2010-05-14 Thread Nathan Edgars II
Frederik Ramm wrote: Nakor wrote: I came to the OSM project to help create a better map of the world, not to be insulted. Please remove the page http://matt.dev.openstreetmap.org/dupe_nodes/heroes.html immediately. The page is helpful and should not be removed. To be less offensive,

[OSM-talk] Any way to recover these Potlatch changes?

2010-05-20 Thread Nathan Edgars II
A couple hours ago I made a bunch of edits in Potlatch and saved. While editing the loading from the API was intermittent, and this continued during the saving. I canceled the save and tried again, and now it refuses to save or load anything. I also can't access any pages on openstreetmap.org.

Re: [OSM-talk] Any way to recover these Potlatch changes?

2010-05-21 Thread Nathan Edgars II
On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 3:36 AM, Peter Körner osm-li...@mazdermind.de wrote: Nathan Edgars II schrieb: A couple hours ago I made a bunch of edits in Potlatch and saved. While editing the loading from the API was intermittent, and this continued during the saving. I canceled the save and tried

[OSM-talk] On the ground rule on the wiki

2010-05-29 Thread Nathan Edgars II
Right now, the only mention of the on the ground rule on the wiki is here: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Disputes#On_the_Ground_Rule Should a separate page be created about how it applies more generally? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org

[OSM-talk] Cloudmade routing issue

2010-05-30 Thread Nathan Edgars II
I know this isn't the Cloudmade list, but a recent thread here got some results. I used the feedback link but never got a response. If you go to

Re: [OSM-talk] On the ground rule on the wiki

2010-05-30 Thread Nathan Edgars II
On Sun, May 30, 2010 at 9:28 AM, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote: In any case, more important than the etymology of the phrase map what's on the ground is what it means and whether or not it's good advice. In terms of its use in excluding verifiable information I think it is quite problematic.

[OSM-talk] On the ground rule on the wiki

2010-05-30 Thread Nathan Edgars II
John F. Eldredge wrote: From: Nathan Edgars II In other words, if we know for sure that Long Street is officially the A1889, it might make sense as a separate ref_unmarked=A1889 tag, like old_ref=A1, but using the same tagging for signed and unsigned routes helps nobody. It is not unusual

Re: [OSM-talk] On the ground rule on the wiki

2010-05-30 Thread Nathan Edgars II
(sorry about the duplicate, Anthony; I forgot to send to all) On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 12:11 AM, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote: On Sun, May 30, 2010 at 6:48 PM, Nathan Edgars II nerou...@gmail.com wrote: In other words, if we know for sure that Long Street is officially the A1889, it might make

[OSM-talk] Software goes on, brain goes off...

2010-06-02 Thread Nathan Edgars II
John Smith wrote: If you wanted something more definite, police injury records could provide alternative verifiability, if as John pointed out 5 people were hurt or killed trying to cross a road than it's obviously not safe. Only if you do the same for other vehicles - highway with lots of crashes

Re: [OSM-talk] Software goes on, brain goes off...

2010-06-02 Thread Nathan Edgars II
On Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at 7:27 AM, Nic Roets nro...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at 10:49 AM, Nathan Edgars II nerou...@gmail.com wrote: As others have said, foot=no when pedestrians are legally allowed is a bad idea. As long as you walk against traffic, drivers will usually see you

[OSM-talk] Tagging wide steps (tribune / terrace)

2010-06-05 Thread Nathan Edgars II
Alexander Menk wrote: is there any better way for mapping very wide steps (100 m, half circle) instead of putting lots of steps next to each other. highway=steps area=yes? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org

[OSM-talk] How do you tag a traffic signal that's also a motorway junction?

2010-06-10 Thread Nathan Edgars II
highway=motorway_junction with ref=[number] is used whenever there's an exit/junction number, whether or not it's actually on a motorway. But there are some numbered exits that are right at traffic signals, which should be tagged highway=traffic_signals. Examples include

Re: [OSM-talk] How do you tag a traffic signal that's also a motorway junction?

2010-06-10 Thread Nathan Edgars II
On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 6:45 PM, Richard Weait rich...@weait.com wrote: Well it can't be highway=motorway_junction because motorways don't have level crossings, right? If this were a motorway_junction (it isn't) the exit number would be in the ref tag on the exit node, so go with that. In

[OSM-talk] Changed highway=*_link meaning?!

2010-06-22 Thread Nathan Edgars II
David Paleino wrote: Hello people, does someone know the reasoning behind: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Map_Features:highwaydiff=490719oldid=485601 ? Looking through his recent edits, I see

[OSM-talk] How is it that a way is deleted but doesn't show up for undeletion? (horribly screwed up area in northern Pennsylvania)

2010-06-25 Thread Nathan Edgars II
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=41.73928lon=-79.88822zoom=15layers=B000FTF All around here there are missing ways. I can't tell exactly what happened, but edits such as http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/3128411 and http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/3125973 (done at about

Re: [OSM-talk] [Talk-us] How is it that a way is deleted but doesn't show up for undeletion? (horribly screwed up area in northern Pennsylvania)

2010-06-25 Thread Nathan Edgars II
On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 11:33 AM, Apollinaris Schoell ascho...@gmail.com wrote: Maybe better to revert these whole changesets. No can do - I don't have the programming skills to handle a revert, and JOSM's changeset manager doesn't seem to be able to do it. This can be tricky if people have

Re: [OSM-talk] wiki down ?

2010-06-28 Thread Nathan Edgars II
colliar wrote: I can not get onto any wiki page. Any problems ? It's down, and there also seems to be a problem with generating new Mapnik tiles, for instance here: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=40.3454lon=-75.9435zoom=12layers=B000FTF This also affects downloading in JOSM - you can download

Re: [OSM-talk] wiki down ?

2010-06-28 Thread Nathan Edgars II
On Tue, Jun 29, 2010 at 12:50 AM, Nathan Edgars II nerou...@gmail.com wrote: colliar wrote: I can not get onto any wiki page. Any problems ? It's down, and there also seems to be a problem with generating new Mapnik tiles, for instance here: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=40.3454lon

[OSM-talk] Rendering street names across several ways

2010-07-01 Thread Nathan Edgars II
Steve Bennett wrote: Definitely. I would go so far as to say that two connected ways should render identically to if they were a single way, except for the actual differences in tags between them. Not quite. Where a dual carriageway becomes a single carriageway, this would wrap the name around

[OSM-talk] Wiki page on links

2010-07-02 Thread Nathan Edgars II
I've written a summary of the recent mailing list discussions on links: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Link Please discuss on its talk page. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

[OSM-talk] correcting/helping inexperienced mappers

2010-07-02 Thread Nathan Edgars II
Joseph Reeves wrote: On 2 July 2010 12:41, Maarten Deen mdeen at xs4all.nl wrote: - show them keepright.ipax.at And http://matt.dev.openstreetmap.org/dupe_nodes/ God no. Not until it distinguishes between bad dupes (highway-highway at county lines, to use a US example) and OK dupes

Re: [OSM-talk] correcting/helping inexperienced mappers

2010-07-02 Thread Nathan Edgars II
On Fri, Jul 2, 2010 at 4:06 PM, Pieren pier...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Jul 2, 2010 at 1:51 PM, Nathan Edgars II nerou...@gmail.com wrote: God no. Not until it distinguishes between bad dupes (highway-highway at county lines, to use a US example) and OK dupes (highway-boundary). Ok dupes do

[OSM-talk] correcting/helping inexperienced mappers

2010-07-03 Thread Nathan Edgars II
Pieren wrote: I don't understand you. If they don't follow and don't cross, then you don't have duplicate nodes anyway... The TIGER import has numerous topological errors, including many highways crossing boundaries when they really don't (due to one or both being in the wrong position). TIGER

[OSM-talk] Area-type objects and ways along its boundaries

2010-07-05 Thread Nathan Edgars II
Ed Avis wrote: Nathan Edgars II neroute2 at gmail.com writes: Depends what the way is. If it's a street, the area most likely stops at the right-of-way line, and does not extend to the middle of the street, so it would be incorrect to extend the area into the street. On the other hand, if it's

[OSM-talk] Area-type objects and ways along its boundaries

2010-07-06 Thread Nathan Edgars II
Pieren wrote: You missunderstood : the definition of the border IS the middle of the road It may be the middle of the road *as it existed when the border was defined*. It's usually not the middle of the road as it exists now, unless there have been no changes, however slight, to the road

[OSM-talk] Divided/Non-Divided Intersection

2010-07-11 Thread Nathan Edgars II
Maarten Deen wrote: John Smith wrote: On 11 July 2010 06:43, Chris Dombroski cdombroski+osm at icanttype.org wrote: I ask because I think this is the cause of stupid GPS directions at times make a left, followed by a slight right Isn't that a problem with the routing software, not the data?

[OSM-talk] Error loading Yahoo-Images in Potlatch

2010-07-12 Thread Nathan Edgars II
Peter Herison wrote: Does anyone encounter errors loading Yahoo-Images in Potlatch? I'm not getting them at all; I reopened http://trac.openstreetmap.org/ticket/2950. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org

[OSM-talk] help.osm.org still buggy

2010-07-13 Thread Nathan Edgars II
I posted a question: http://help.openstreetmap.org/questions/153/how-do-you-tell-if-a-minor-service-road-is-accessprivate-destination-or-permissive But I can't view it. Apparently others have been able to respond and downvote it, but when I go to the above URL I get: 500 Server Error sorry,

Re: [OSM-talk] What could we do to make this licences discussion more inclusive?

2010-07-16 Thread Nathan Edgars II
Heiko Jacobs-2 wrote: But I don't will accept any data loss because only of legal reasons. Wikipedia and other projects changed licence without any loss of data. Unfortunately Wikipedia took advantage of a loophole: contributors agreed to the current GFDL or any later version, and they

Re: [OSM-talk] What could we do to make this licences discussion more inclusive?

2010-07-18 Thread Nathan Edgars II
SteveC-2 wrote: And I'll try to imagine your parents basement where you toil endlessly on such counts. Steve stevecoast.com If this is how the OSMF board conducts themselves, perhaps it's best to give them as little power as possible over the data and its license. -- View this

Re: [OSM-talk] What could we do to make this licences discussion more inclusive?

2010-07-18 Thread Nathan Edgars II
On Sun, Jul 18, 2010 at 10:22 PM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: On 19 July 2010 12:07, Nathan Edgars II nerou...@gmail.com wrote: If this is how the OSMF board conducts themselves, perhaps it's best to give them as little power as possible over the data and its license. Just

[OSM-talk] How do I turn JOSM's tiger:reviewed=no highlight off?

2010-08-02 Thread Nathan Edgars II
If a way is tagged tiger:reviewed=no, JOSM puts a highlight behind it, and when you select it the red is a lot fatter. How do I disable this? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] How do I turn JOSM's tiger:reviewed=no highlight off?

2010-08-02 Thread Nathan Edgars II
On Mon, Aug 2, 2010 at 4:37 AM, maning sambale emmanuel.samb...@gmail.com wrote: Use the wireframe mode Ctrl-R That's ctrl-W, and I don't want all that, just disabling the highlight. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org

Re: [OSM-talk] How do I turn JOSM's tiger:reviewed=no highlight off?

2010-08-02 Thread Nathan Edgars II
On Mon, Aug 2, 2010 at 4:49 AM, Peteris Krisjanis pec...@gmail.com wrote: 2010/8/2 Nathan Edgars II nerou...@gmail.com: If a way is tagged tiger:reviewed=no, JOSM puts a highlight behind it, and when you select it the red is a lot fatter. How do I disable this? Use new JOSM filter feature

Re: [OSM-talk] How do I turn JOSM's tiger:reviewed=no highlight off?

2010-08-02 Thread Nathan Edgars II
Sebastian Klein wrote: Nathan Edgars II wrote: If a way is tagged tiger:reviewed=no, JOSM puts a highlight behind it, and when you select it the red is a lot fatter. How do I disable this? You can put color.mappaint.standard.tiger_data=#80808000 in your advanced preferences

Re: [OSM-talk] How do I turn JOSM's tiger:reviewed=no highlight off?

2010-08-02 Thread Nathan Edgars II
Sebastian Klein wrote: There seems to be a general user interface problem here, as you are not the first having trouble with loading custom styles. To avoid noise on this list, we can try to resolve it on josm trac. Please add Help-status report to the ticket. I created a ticket -

Re: [OSM-talk] Bing

2010-08-03 Thread Nathan Edgars II
Anthony-6 wrote: http://www.bing.com/community/blogs/maps/archive/2010/08/02/bing-maps-adds-open-street-maps-layer.aspx I may be wrong, but it looks like they've taken a static dump of the tiles from earlier today, rather than a dump of the data. Some changes I just made today

Re: [OSM-talk] How do I turn JOSM's tiger:reviewed=no highlight off?

2010-08-08 Thread Nathan Edgars II
On Sun, Aug 8, 2010 at 3:18 AM, Russ Nelson nel...@crynwr.com wrote: Nathan Edgars II writes: If a way is tagged tiger:reviewed=no, JOSM puts a highlight behind it, and when you select it the red is a lot fatter. How do I disable this? Delete tiger:reviewed=no after you've reviewed a road

Re: [OSM-talk] Enough is enough: disinfecting OSM from poisonous people

2010-08-10 Thread Nathan Edgars II
SteveC-2 wrote: One quote from the talk in particular comes to mind: it's a technique that poisonous people can use to derail a consensus-based community from actually achieving consensus. You have this noisy minority make a lot of noise and people look and say 'oh wow there is no

Re: [OSM-talk] BDFL Moderation

2010-08-11 Thread Nathan Edgars II
I think I figured out what's been specifically bugging me about this. When I joined OSM about eight months ago, I knew vaguely that there was a license change process going on, and assumed the OSMF knew what they were doing. (I still think they know, but I now have concerns about what they're

Re: [OSM-talk] BDFL Moderation

2010-08-11 Thread Nathan Edgars II
On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 4:14 PM, Peter Körner osm-li...@mazdermind.de wrote: So the newbies have chosen to join this mailing list, so they at least have seen the list of mailinglists. Why didn't they join legal? or dev= because they're not interested in those topics, they have enough to do with

Re: [OSM-talk] Moderating / Quality checking OSM contributions -- was: Re: OSmosa.net run now.., contribution model

2011-12-07 Thread Nathan Edgars II
On 12/7/2011 6:47 PM, Kate Chapman wrote: There are a lot of road classifications already in the wiki for example here is the one for the US: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/United_States_Road_Classification This has a number of problems:

Re: [OSM-talk] Moderating / Quality checking OSM contributions -- was: Re: OSmosa.net run now.., contribution model

2011-12-07 Thread Nathan Edgars II
On 12/7/2011 7:42 PM, Nathan Edgars II wrote: On 12/7/2011 6:47 PM, Kate Chapman wrote: There are a lot of road classifications already in the wiki for example here is the one for the US: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/United_States_Road_Classification This has a number of problems: http

Re: [OSM-talk] Moderating / Quality checking OSM contributions -- was: Re: OSmosa.net run now.., contribution model

2011-12-07 Thread Nathan Edgars II
On 12/7/2011 7:31 PM, Kate Chapman wrote: But if the road classification matches to the actual utility of the road why not use it. It doesn't in the U.S. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Moderating / Quality checking OSM contributions -- was: Re: OSmosa.net run now.., contribution model

2011-12-07 Thread Nathan Edgars II
On 12/7/2011 7:08 PM, Andrew Errington wrote: I don't know for sure, but I expect that the initial list of road classifications were derived from UK Ordnance Survey classifications: Motorway - motorway A road - primary B road - secondary 'yellow' road - tertiary 'white' road - unclassified

Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-legal-talk] License Change View on OSM Inspector

2011-12-13 Thread Nathan Edgars II
What will happen to buildings that were drawn by a CT-agreeing mapper but with tags copied from a red node? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-legal-talk] License Change View on OSM Inspector

2011-12-13 Thread Nathan Edgars II
On 12/13/2011 11:57 AM, Nathan Edgars II wrote: What will happen to buildings that were drawn by a CT-agreeing mapper but with tags copied from a red node? Presumably nothing will happen, since there is no easy way of identifying these. So this is an easy loophole - if you see any red nodes

Re: [OSM-talk] Editing of content that will be deleted on April 1st

2011-12-13 Thread Nathan Edgars II
On 12/13/2011 2:02 PM, Richard Fairhurst wrote: People are increasingly deleting such content and replacing with new content, often using the new sources which were not available when the content was first input (e.g. Bing imagery and OS OpenData) and that's good. Disagree. It's only good if

Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-legal-talk] License Change View on OSM Inspector

2011-12-13 Thread Nathan Edgars II
On 12/13/2011 2:30 PM, Frederik Ramm wrote: Hi, On 12/13/2011 08:02 PM, Nathan Edgars II wrote: Presumably nothing will happen, since there is no easy way of identifying these. So this is an easy loophole - if you see any red nodes that represent points of interest, replace them with building

Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-legal-talk] License Change View on OSM Inspector

2011-12-13 Thread Nathan Edgars II
On 12/13/2011 2:57 PM, Frederik Ramm wrote: Hi, On 12/13/2011 08:47 PM, Nathan Edgars II wrote: I have done many edits of this sort over the years. It has been standard practice for a long time. Any tainting has already happened. I am not talking about any tainting that has happened

Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-legal-talk] License Change View on OSM Inspector

2011-12-13 Thread Nathan Edgars II
It would be useful to have an idea of how many objects have been edited by a red user *and then edited by someone else*. These are the biggest problem in terms of damage. It's also important to keep in mind that relations are the most vulnerable of all, and do not show up on this view.

Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-legal-talk] License Change View on OSM Inspector

2011-12-13 Thread Nathan Edgars II
On 12/13/2011 4:03 PM, Graham Jones wrote: I see there are three potential reasons for someone neither accepting nor declining the terms: * They really do not agree with them, but for some reason that I can not think of they decide not to click the 'decline' button - These are an

Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-legal-talk] License Change View on OSM Inspector

2011-12-13 Thread Nathan Edgars II
How does the OSMF plan to handle split or combined ways? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-legal-talk] License Change View on OSM Inspector

2011-12-13 Thread Nathan Edgars II
On 12/13/2011 4:25 PM, john whelan wrote: The intentions don't matter here, its to be able to defend the new licensing / copyright in court you need to show all the content has come from people who have accepted the new license. Which is impossible because of the common practice of copying

Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-legal-talk] License Change View on OSM Inspector

2011-12-13 Thread Nathan Edgars II
On 12/13/2011 4:46 PM, Peter Wendorff wrote: Even in law exists the distinction between crimes done willingly and those done unwillingly or without knowledge. You don't get necessarily out of the case without any harm if you didn't know or didn't want it, but often you have to do/pay/be

Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-legal-talk] License Change View on OSM Inspector

2011-12-13 Thread Nathan Edgars II
On 12/13/2011 5:03 PM, Frederik Ramm wrote: No. The only thing I was talking about was that if you should have the audacity to publicly proclaim loopholes in the process and that you intend to use them, I will block your account. I have already used them many times as part of normal editing,

Re: [OSM-talk] Editing of content that will be deleted on April 1st

2011-12-13 Thread Nathan Edgars II
How about before we start attempting to rescue anything from the OSMF, we make sure we know what we're doing? What is the proper way to edit an object that has been modified by a decliner? What is the proper way to do this to a relation, especially one with many members and many revisions? How

Re: [OSM-talk] Editing of content that will be deleted on April 1st

2011-12-13 Thread Nathan Edgars II
On 12/13/2011 6:38 PM, Frederik Ramm wrote: Because we gain nothing from major contributors holding out until the very last day and then, smilingly, tell us you know what, I've decided to disagree after all. That's four winter months wasted when they could have been perfectly well used for

Re: [OSM-talk] tools for the transition (was: Editing of content that will be deleted on April 1st)

2011-12-14 Thread Nathan Edgars II
The other thing that's needed is a way to mark an object as clean. For example, if a red mapper added name=Citgo to an existing gas station, and I verify that it's Citgo (and maybe add other tags such as address), how do I prevent the OSMF from reverting it?

[OSM-talk] JOSM error in downloading?

2011-12-14 Thread Nathan Edgars II
I recently updated JOSM to the latest tested (though it still has the sluggishness issues I reported a few months ago) and can no longer download from the Overpass API. When I try to download

Re: [OSM-talk] Transition to CC-4 instead of destroying data

2011-12-14 Thread Nathan Edgars II
On 12/14/2011 4:13 PM, Stefan de Konink wrote: Could you point on the wiki which problems will arise by not changing at all - or posing a future transition to a next version of the Creative Commons license? I've read through many discussions, and the only reasons I've seen for changing the

[OSM-talk] An example of the complications inherent in determining tainted ways

2011-12-14 Thread Nathan Edgars II
I will look at a single suburban roadway: Westwood Boulevard in the International Drive tourist area south of Orlando. This started out as a TIGER way: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/11197961/history 80n (orange) and kyrbyboy (red) have made some improvements to alignment, but have

Re: [OSM-talk] An example of the complications inherent in determining tainted ways

2011-12-14 Thread Nathan Edgars II
On 12/14/2011 9:45 PM, Frederik Ramm wrote: It has been explained already but I'll repeat it - OSMF/LWG has not yet decided what they will do with regards to the finer points of complex object relicensing. This means that none of your questions above has an answer. And OSMF is not going to

Re: [OSM-talk] Harming the community

2011-12-14 Thread Nathan Edgars II
On 12/14/2011 11:56 PM, Serge Wroclawski wrote: 3. The list moderators need to step up and do their jobs. This nonsense is disruptive and it needs to end. Discussion is fine, but inflammatory language and lies are not. Could you have made a more inflammatory post? (Well, sure, you could have,

Re: [OSM-talk] An example of the complications inherent in determining tainted ways

2011-12-15 Thread Nathan Edgars II
On 12/15/2011 8:21 AM, Mikel Maron wrote: Please continue any detailed discussion of this topic to legal-talk ... that's what it's for. The question is not what's legally true, but what conditions the OSMF will require an object to satisfy to not be reverted. So it actually belongs on

[OSM-talk] Relations and the license change

2011-12-17 Thread Nathan Edgars II
Has there been any information as to how the OSMF will handle relations when deleting or reverting tainted objects? It is much easier for a relation to be tainted than a way; all that needs to be done is the splitting of a single member to ruin the entire relation. For example, 31 of the

Re: [OSM-talk] Relations and the license change

2011-12-18 Thread Nathan Edgars II
On 12/18/2011 8:45 AM, Frederik Ramm wrote: Hi, On 12/18/2011 04:34 AM, Nathan Edgars II wrote: Has there been any information as to how the OSMF will handle relations when deleting or reverting tainted objects? No. I'll write something on legal-talk. I'll reply here because (a) I'm

Re: [OSM-talk] Splitting a way may completely hide a taint

2011-12-21 Thread Nathan Edgars II
On 12/21/2011 8:01 PM, Frederik Ramm wrote: Sounds like a policy decision to me - you can either be too cautious or too careful but probably never do it exactly right. And we really need to know how the OSMF is treating these common cases before we start the process of minimizing damage.

Re: [OSM-talk] New rules for OSMI license change view

2011-12-26 Thread Nathan Edgars II
On 12/26/2011 6:50 PM, Frederik Ramm wrote: Hi, I've updated the license change view on OSMI with new rules. It will now * treat untagged nodes as clean if moved by an agreeing mapper * treat any tags contributed by a non-agreeing mapper as harmless if these tags are not present any more in

Re: [OSM-talk] New rules for OSMI license change view

2011-12-26 Thread Nathan Edgars II
On 12/26/2011 9:09 PM, Frederik Ramm wrote: Dear unknown person using the pseudonym Nathan Edgars II, Does this mean that the OSMF has decided that these cases will not be reverted, or do we still have no idea? I will not cave in to your childish refusal to read osmf-talk by repeating what

Re: [OSM-talk] New rules for OSMI license change view

2011-12-26 Thread Nathan Edgars II
On 12/26/2011 9:21 PM, Frederik Ramm wrote: Hi, On 12/27/2011 03:09 AM, Frederik Ramm wrote: I will not cave in to your childish refusal to read osmf-talk Or legal-talk, rather. I do read legal-talk, and have seen no such decision by the OSMF.

Re: [OSM-talk] Things People Say

2011-12-31 Thread Nathan Edgars II
On 12/31/2011 1:48 AM, Michal Migurski wrote: In the bottom-right corner is the wiki Image Of The Week, which is so often the home of solid gold output from the OSM community, whether it's new renders or photos of mappers. I beg to differ. Pulling a few examples:

Re: [OSM-talk] Request for Romano-British features

2012-01-03 Thread Nathan Edgars II
On 1/3/2012 4:25 AM, Pieren wrote: On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 7:23 AM, Lester Caineles...@lsces.co.uk wrote: This is the area that we still need to get some agreement on :( Current rendering does not take any notice of start and stop dates ... These tags have been created for periodic events,

Re: [OSM-talk] Request for Romano-British features

2012-01-03 Thread Nathan Edgars II
On 1/3/2012 5:04 AM, Pieren wrote: On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 10:42 AM, Nathan Edgars II If someone does this in my area, I'll revert the deletion as vandalism. Funny. I also consider adding non-existing stuff as vandalism. I hope we will never contribute on the same areas... Live and let live

Re: [OSM-talk] Request for Romano-British features

2012-01-03 Thread Nathan Edgars II
On 1/3/2012 7:08 AM, Pieren wrote: On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 11:29 AM, Nathan Edgars IInerou...@gmail.com wrote: So don't remove legitimate data (which includes historic features) in the name of reverting vandalism, or you too will eventually get burned. Then many, many people will be burned.

Re: [OSM-talk] [talk-au] [sharedmapau] Re: Mass revert now??

2012-01-10 Thread Nathan Edgars II
On 1/10/2012 10:24 AM, Toby Murray wrote: Some of these ways haven't been touched since Bing imagery became available. I'm guessing improvements are probably more the norm than reductions in quality. What probably gets lost most often is various improvements made such as number of lanes,

Re: [OSM-talk] [talk-au] [sharedmapau] Re: Mass revert now??

2012-01-10 Thread Nathan Edgars II
On 1/10/2012 12:16 PM, Eugene Alvin Villar wrote: In short, this remapping exercise I'm doing actually leads to better data quality. So I disagree with your assertion that the license change is a disruptive change for little or no benefit. So what you're saying is that you're only improving

Re: [OSM-talk] CLEANMAP global version

2012-01-12 Thread Nathan Edgars II
On 1/11/2012 10:30 PM, Nick Hocking wrote: OSM inspector gives a pessimistic view at a distance because red is so bright and (in Australia) one could be forgiven for thinking... Oh dear, Sydney and Adelaide are goners. However your CleanMap shows that there is a lot of hope for both although

[OSM-talk] odbl=clean usage

2012-01-13 Thread Nathan Edgars II
It's my view that odbl=clean is essentially a loophole - that is, if the OSMF actually pays attention to it when mass-reverting. But given that it seems to be accepted, I'm wondering about the following case: A non-agreeing mapper changes a bunch of roads from residential to secondary, using

Re: [OSM-talk] odbl=clean usage

2012-01-15 Thread Nathan Edgars II
Since there's been no response, I plan to start doing this. On 1/13/2012 6:49 AM, Nathan Edgars II wrote: It's my view that odbl=clean is essentially a loophole - that is, if the OSMF actually pays attention to it when mass-reverting. But given that it seems to be accepted, I'm wondering about

Re: [OSM-talk] odbl=clean usage

2012-01-15 Thread Nathan Edgars II
On 1/15/2012 11:09 AM, Frederik Ramm wrote: Hi, On 01/15/2012 05:03 PM, Floris Looijesteijn wrote: in my opinion, obdl=clean is the ugliest thing in the whole license change so far... i can't believe this would be automatically accepted on april 1st. I'm happy to debate the issue on

Re: [OSM-talk] Mixing OSM and FOSM data

2012-01-15 Thread Nathan Edgars II
On 1/15/2012 3:00 PM, Russ Nelson wrote: Frederik Ramm writes: I am amazed at the constant disregard of legal-talk, a list that was created *precisely* for license questions. These questions have nothing to do with the law, and everything to do with how the community edits. Actually

Re: [OSM-talk] odbl=clean usage

2012-01-15 Thread Nathan Edgars II
On 1/15/2012 12:34 PM, Toby Murray wrote: According to this, deletions will not be reverted: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Open_Data_License/What_is_clean%3F#Deletions_are_not_tainted Now that's just stupid. Can you imagine what a random town where an ungood mapper has done some joining

[OSM-talk] OSMF's tainting decisions (Re: Mixing OSM and FOSM data)

2012-01-16 Thread Nathan Edgars II
On 1/15/2012 9:38 PM, Russ Nelson wrote: The OSMF seems determined to avoid any edge cases by being very conservative. Maybe in some cases, but with respect to splitting and joining ways, they're being extremely liberal and assuming that a new way ID is a new way wrt licensing. That is,

Re: [OSM-talk] Mapping guidelines

2012-01-18 Thread Nathan Edgars II
On 1/17/2012 6:28 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: 2012/1/17 Maarten Deenmd...@xs4all.nl: On 2012-01-16 23:27, Robin Paulson wrote: http://www.openstreetmap.org/edit?lat=-36.878407lon=174.741523zoom=19 the landuse polygon has an orange highlight on it, why does it do that? Just a hint on

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