Re: [OSM-talk] Is it time to redevelop JOSM?

[Matthijs Melissen]

On Sun, 7 Oct 2018 at 23:11, john whelan  wrote:

> JAVA has a number of problems.  Many corporations ban its installation
> citing security issues which restricts the machines that can use JOSM with
> all its nice tools.
>

Is this an actual problem you, or people you know, encounter? If so, is
this a policy or a technical measure? In any case, banning Java but
allowing arbitrary other executables is silly (a good policy would ban Java
Applet plug-ins from browsers instead, this is what might have caused the
confusion).

Would offering a version of JOSM somehow wrapped in a .exe help?

-- Matthijs
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Re: [OSM-talk] Strava Cycling and Running Heatmap not working

[Matthijs Melissen]

On 15 March 2018 at 19:57, Mike Thompson  wrote:
> I am trying to use the "Strava Cycling and Running Heatmap" in JOSM but I am 
> getting a "Error HTTP error 403 when loading tiles."

According to the Dutch forum, the following URLs should work:

tms[3,17]:http://globalheat.strava.com/tiles/cycling/color2/{zoom}/{x}/{y}.png
tms[3,17]:http://globalheat.strava.com/tiles/running/color2/{zoom}/{x}/{y}.png

-- Matthijs

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Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap 2008

[Matthijs Melissen]

On 19 February 2018 at 16:46, Ilya Zverev  wrote:
> Checked out the latest OSM Carto 3.x style

Cool work! If you run osm2pgsql with '--hstore' and
'--tag-transform-script openstreetmap-carto.lua', I'd expect that the
4.0 branch of OSM carto will also work.

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[OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap Carto release v4.6.0

[Matthijs Melissen]

Dear all,

Today, v4.6.0 of the openstreetmap-carto stylesheet (the default
stylesheet on the OSM website) has been released. Once changes are deployed
on the openstreetmap.org it will take couple of days before all tiles
show the new rendering.

Changes include
- Change sports_centre and stadium color to light green
- Change shades of green for landuse/leisure=recreation_ground and garden
- Do not render glaciers and icesheets on z6 and z7
- Do not render very small water areas on low zoom
- Do not render small national parks and nature reserves
- Do not render ferries on z7
- Improve rendering for bus guideways
- For built-up areas, replace the external data on z8 and z9 by OSM data
- Do not render bicycle/motorbike parking icons to z17
- Render community_centre and social_facility areas in light yellow

Thanks to all the contributors for this release, including Andy
Townsend, a new contributor.

For a full list of commits, see
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/compare/v4.5.0...v4.6.0 .

As always, we welcome any bug reports at
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues .

Kind regards,
Matthijs Melissen

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Re: [OSM-talk] Spam/Report user

[Matthijs Melissen]

On 26 November 2017 at 20:26, Simon Poole  wrote:
> Exactly the other way around: people love to create wiki pages and put
> some outlandish claims on them that have nothing to do with reality,
> leading to people that actually believe the nonsense to be frustrated
> (in this case people believing that the page in question was set up and
> is read by the admins).

Actually it was Grant Slater who added the text 'Admins do read this
page, but please be patient it may take a few days'.

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Spam=631300=631279

Did you cross-check your edit with Grant?

-- Matthijs

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Re: [OSM-talk] Effecting change in OpenStreetMap

[Matthijs Melissen]

On 21 November 2017 at 14:47, Darafei "Komяpa" Praliaskouski
 wrote:
> "I'm worried about this. I have not performed a technical review." as a
> blocker for PR merge:
> https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/pull/2939
>
> Basically, most of wide ~2011 dev community was hired away, and core is in
> hands of those who weren't hired away by Map* for whatever reason, be that
> lack of social skills or lack of technical skills. You've got no fresh
> blood, and there's no road map for it to improve.

I can't speak for the other projects, but at least towards
openstreetmap-carto this is very unfair criticism. In fact, what
you're describing is something I've been actively trying to combat
with openstreetmap-carto. Our project has added 8 maintainers, 4 of
which have been added over the past two years. Also in the last two
years, 22 people have contributed code through pull requests. So it's
certainly not true that it's impossible to get something merged into
the project.

Your criticism of the comment on your PR is not fair either, the
comment 'I'm worried about this' was referring to an earlier, more
detailed response, by me:
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/pull/2939#issuecomment-343258037

> Basically, most of wide ~2011 dev community was hired away, and core is in 
> hands of those who weren't hired away by Map* for whatever reason, be that 
> lack of social skills or lack of technical skills.

Either that, or they like to fiddle with maps at night time, and have
a day job in a more lucrative industry.

-- Matthijs

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Re: [OSM-talk] Label language on the Default stylesheet

[Matthijs Melissen]

On 24 September 2017 at 23:01, Matthijs Melissen
<i...@matthijsmelissen.nl> wrote:
> I would like to ask for your opinion on the choice of language used in
> the Default map on openstreetmap.org.

Thank you all for your contributions to the discussion. It seems that
the current choice, rendering local names only, is the preferred
option for most of you. We'll therefore leave the rendering unchanged.

-- Matthijs

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Re: [OSM-talk] Label language on the Default stylesheet

[Matthijs Melissen]

On 25 September 2017 at 13:21, Richard Fairhurst  wrote:
> Frederik Ramm wrote:
>> I'd invest the available brainpower in steps needed to achieve
>> this goal, even if it's a year or two in the future.
>
> Which means vector tiles... which we should be looking at anyway.
>
> But that needs to be a separate project really, rather than a facet of
> openstreetmap-carto.

Yes, to re-iterate: my question is about things we can do now. Vector
tiles are on the horizon, but are likely to take a year or more from
now. Changing some of the labels is something we could do with one
line of code and roll out tomorrow, if we wanted to.

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[OSM-talk] Label language on the Default stylesheet

[Matthijs Melissen]

Hi all,

I would like to ask for your opinion on the choice of language used in
the Default map on openstreetmap.org.

This map (based on the openstreetmap-carto style) currently displays
all labels in their native language (as defined in the 'name' tag).
For example, we have a label 北京市 for Beijing, a label موريتانيا for
Mauritania, and a label Magyarország for Hungary.

The openstreetmap-carto team quite frequently receives requests to
(additionally) display labels in English (or in any case the
Latin-alphabet). The people making these requests state that the map
is currently not very usable for an international audience, as many
people are not able to read labels in for example Arabic or Mandarin.
Some areas where this problem is particularly visible:
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues/803#issuecomment-330782700
A prominent case of such a request is from the Gnome Maps team, who
decided not to use the Default style for this reason:
https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=764841#c35

From an ideologic viewpoint, I am very much in favour of not giving
preferential treatment to any particular language. Using the local
language seems fair in this respect. On the other hand, from a
pragmatic point of view I can also see that using English (in
addition) would significantly increase the usefulness of the map to
many people.

I would be interested to know what others think about this. An option,
for example, would be to display countries names, and perhaps the
names of big cities, in English as well as in the local language.

Note: making the map available in multiple language versions is
something we like to do in the future, however, this requires quite
significant technical changes. Therefore, this is out of scope for
now.

More information on this issue can be found on Github:
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues/803

I'm looking forward to your opinions.

Kind regards,
Matthijs Melissen

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Re: [OSM-talk] Draft Trademark Policy

[Matthijs Melissen]

On 3 August 2017 at 23:07, Simon Poole  wrote:
> The LWG would like to start a period of public review and consultation on
> our draft trademark policy, that we intend to bring forward to the OSMF
> board for adoption as a formal policy, please see the text here:

The proposed policy would discourage people from using 'OpenStreetMap'
in their project names. To be honest, I don't think this policy is
going the right way.

This policy seems to protect against applications using OpenStreetMap
in the name without using OpenStreetMap data. I don't think that's a
serious problem, while the opposite 'problem' occurs quite often:
projects using OpenStreetMap data without making it clear that they
are doing so (except in some small attribution).

For example, I would much rather have that people would call their app
'OpenStreetMap.me' rather than 'Maps.me'. This policy seems to
discourage that.

-- Matthijs

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[OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap Carto release v3.3.1

[Matthijs Melissen]

Dear all,

Today, v3.3.1 of the openstreetmap-carto stylesheet (the default
stylesheet on openstreetmap.org) has been released.

This version includes a single change:
* Fix a regression in intermittent waterways

For a full list of commits, see
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/compare/v3.3.0...v3.3.1

As always, we welcome any bug reports at
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues.

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Re: [OSM-talk] Old-style multipolygon cleanup is done!

[Matthijs Melissen]

On 4 May 2017 at 16:30, Jochen Topf  wrote:
> The old-style multipolygon relations are history! In not even two months
> the OSM community cleaned up all of the nearly a quarter million
> relations. You can see the it here:
> http://area.jochentopf.com/stats/#old_style_multipolygons

Thanks for the great work to Jochen and everyone else involved! On the
data consumption site, this will make things significantly easier.

-- Matthijs

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Re: [Talk-GB] Import Progress

[Matthijs Melissen]

On 19 March 2017 at 20:55, Richard Fairhurst  wrote:
> However, just because I no longer spend my time batting back and forth to
> every post on the lists, that does not mean I have the right to ignore the
> same community guidelines which everyone else follows.

Can you show where you have sought community support when making the
following change to the Import Guidelines?

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Import/Guidelines=702968=687101

Or is your post simply a request for all people to follow *your* rules?

-- Matthijs

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Notes pollutie

[Matthijs Melissen]

2017-02-18 15:33 GMT+01:00 Philippe Casteleyn :
> Iedereen spreekt altijd over lokale kennis, maar verkiest toch
buitenlandse
> inmenging.

Een kleine opheldering, met 'lokale kennis' wordt bedoeld kennis van iemand
die ter plaatse is geweest om te kijken hoe de situatie er aldaar uit ziet
(in tegenstelling tot bijvoorbeeld imports of intekenen van Bing-beelden).
De woonplaats van de mapper staat hier geheel los van.

-- Matthijs
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Re: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] TfWM NaPTAN refresh

[Matthijs Melissen]

On 15 February 2017 at 23:10, Brian Prangle  wrote:
> I don't understand what there is to sort out. We don't want to delete the
> node and its naptan data just the bus_stop tag which the naptan:Status=DEL
> indicates. If we delete the node entirely it's difficult to recover if there
> any errors in the status and we actually survey one of these on the ground
> and find a bus stop actually there.

I mean it would be good to find out on the ground which of these bus
stops are still there. If they're still there, the highway=bus_stop
should be re-added, if not the node can be removed. It would be good
to have a bit of community attention on that: if we just leave them in
the database, I'm afraid nobody will look at them.

-- Matthijs

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Re: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] TfWM NaPTAN refresh

[Matthijs Melissen]

On 15 February 2017 at 17:58, Brian Prangle  wrote:
> I've just removed the highway=bus_stop tag from any NaPTAN node that after
> yesterdays' refresh carried the tag naptan:Status=DEL. There were 237 cases.
> The nodes are still there, just not rendered so if there are any errors in
> TfWM's NaPTAN data, a quick adding of a bus_stop tag is all that's needed

Overpass link:
http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/mMn

It would be good to sort these out, already in Birmingham City Centre
there are quite some.

-- Matthijs

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Notes pollutie in Brussel

[Matthijs Melissen]

2017-02-13 13:49 GMT+01:00 joost schouppe :
> Ik had bij de laatste meetup in Brussel bij drie van die Notes info
> toegevoegd om ze te kunnen sluiten.

Sorry, die waren er tussendoor geglipt, dat doe ik normaal inderdaad
wel. Ik heb ze nu alsnog verwerkt.

-- Matthijs

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Notes pollutie in Brussel

[Matthijs Melissen]

Beste Philippe,

Allereerst zou ik je willen vragen je toon aan te passen. Je komt erg
onbeleefd en agressief over, dat lijkt me niet nuttig voor een
productieve discussie. Ik snap ook niet niet wat mijn woonplaats met
de rest van de discussie te maken heeft; die is in elk geval zeker
niet geheim, je bent altijd welkom in Den Haag om samen te mappen.

Ik heb tijdens SOTM inderdaad een groot aantal POI in Brussel
toegevoegd. In totaal heb ik meer dan 500 winkels en
horecagelegenheden ingetekend. Hierdoor is het winkel- en horecaaanbod
in de Brusselse binnenstad nu (vrijwel) volledig in kaart gebracht.
Het is trouwens bizar om te zien hoeveel toeristische chocoladewinkels
er in Brussel zijn!

Een klein aantal stukken (<10%) heb ik niet kunnen doen, ofwel omdat
ik niet genoeg tijd had, ofwel omdat ik ter plekke niet meteen kon
zien of een winkel nog steeds bestond. Ik weet uit ervaring dat als er
90% van een stad gemapt is het heel lastig te zien is wat er nog moet
gebeuren. Daarom heb ik voor de paar stukjes waar ik niet aan toe
gekomen notes aangemaakt zodat het voor de locale community in elk
geval duidelijk is wat er wel en niet gedaan is.

Het is overigens niet waar dat er al 5 maanden niemand naar deze notes
heeft gekeken: een aantal hiervan zijn al opgelost, onder andere door
gebruiker bxl-forever. Gesloten notes zijn echter maar 2 weken
zichtbaar, dus het aantal notes dat wel opgelost is niet meteen in te
zien. Ik ga er van uit dat de notes die nog open staan in de loop der
tijd ook gewoon opgelost worden (misschien zelfs wel door mij zelf,
mocht ik weer eens een keer in Brussel zijn).

Ik hoop dat ik hiermee voldoende toelichting heb kunnen geven.

-- Matthijs

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Re: [Talk-GB] Propose automated edit to update NAPTAN data in the west mids

[Matthijs Melissen]

On 3 February 2017 at 19:29, Stuart Reynolds <
stu...@travelinesoutheast.org.uk> wrote:

> Also, there is often some confusion about what name goes into which fields
> - people will insist on compounding names, for example, because that’s what
> their consuming system wants, rather than getting the consumer to read the
> data properly. But that’s too much to go into here, and if reviewing the
> names is in scope then I would be happy to offer to help. One of my other
> “hats" is as the Public Transport Data Standards Advisor / Expert for DfT,
> which includes advising on NAPTAN.
>
> Hi Stuart,

Great to have your support. I noticed that there are a few stops in the
West Midlands where the name in Naptan doesn't match the name on the flag
(unfortunately I don't remember by heart which ones). This means the visual
announcement in the announcement in the bus (and the information in online
timetables) is different from the name on the flag, so from a usability
perspective it would make sense to fix this. Is there any process of
reporting situations like that?

-- Matthijs
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Re: [Talk-GB] Propose automated edit to update NAPTAN data in the west mids

[Matthijs Melissen]

Hi Brian,

Great to see this going forward! Some technicalities:

> Process overview

This is not very clear to me. I think this section either needs more
detail, or less (with the detail moved to the individual steps). Also, what
do you mean with opening a csv in JOSM?

> Each chunk will create a separate changeset in OSM

This is not correct, all chunks will be uploaded within one changeset. See
https://josm.openstreetmap.de/wiki/Help/Action/Upload for how uploading in
chunks in JOSM work.

On the process detail: what will happen with current bus stops in OSM that
do not have Naptan tags? Perhaps it would be best to add the NaptanCode (or
AtcoCode) manually for these stops first? Can't be too many of them.

"Use a proximity script to determine presence of duplicates. How to handle
duplicates?" I don't think we need a proximity script or anything like
that, we can just do matching on NaptanCode or AtcoCode. So: for all bus
stops, if there is a bus stop with a matching NaptanCode already in OSM,
update that bus stop; if not, create a new bus stop.

The Naptan database contains abbreviations like Rd, Ln, St. Will we leave
those, or are we going to expand them into Road, Lane, Street etc, as is
usually done in OSM? The bus stops in West Midlands have the abbreviations
written out as well.

In general, I think it would be good to have some more information in the
process detail before going ahead - but I'm sure this will sort itself out
over the next weeks.

Good luck with the import, it's a great step forward!

-- Matthijs

On 3 February 2017 at 18:52, Brian Prangle  wrote:

> Hi everyone
>
> We have an opportunity to work with the regional transport authority TfWM
> to update this data which is 8 years old and partially edited by OSM users.
> They have assigned 2 developers to work on this and I'm spending a half day
> each week working with them.
>
> We've agreed and discussed this in our mappa mercia group and also
> contacted a prolific local public transport OSM editor who's not part of
> our group.
>
> In line with the automated edits policy there's a wikipage
> 
> with full details
>
> Comments welcome as this exercise might be useful elswhere as the state of
> NAPTAN data will be in a similar state
>
> regards
>
> Brian
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Mozambique's living streets

[Matthijs Melissen]

On 11 December 2016 at 01:15, Jean-Marc Liotier  wrote:
> But participants
> in the thread were mostly experienced with French-speaking Africa - so I
> cannot rule out the existence of a living street legal classification in
> other locales.

At least South Africa seems to have legal living_streets:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Road_signs_in_South_Africa#/media/File:SADC_road_sign_R403.svg

-- Matthijs

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Re: [OSM-talk] Taglists support for rendering examples

[Matthijs Melissen]

On 14 November 2016 at 02:22, Matthijs Melissen
<i...@matthijsmelissen.nl> wrote:
> I have now added support to taginfo for showing an example rendering in
> the taglists on the wiki.

I have included some TagList templates now on the main Map Features
page, as well on the individual pages.

See for example:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Map_Features
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:man_made
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:craft

The templates that have been converted so far are craft, man_made,
natural, office, geological, and emergency. Help is still appreciated
with converting the other templates.

-- Matthijs

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Re: [OSM-talk] Taglists support for rendering examples

[Matthijs Melissen]

On 6 November 2016 at 12:52, Jochen Topf  wrote:
> I have now added support to taginfo for showing an example rendering in
> the taglists on the wiki.

I enabled this functionality now on
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Template:Map_Features/man_made .

We now have TagList templates for the following keys.
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Template:Map_Features/natural
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Template:Map_Features/geological
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Template:Map_Features/man_made
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Template:Map_Features/emergency
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Template:Map_Features/office

I could use some help with creating TagList templates for the other
keys. Is anybody interested?

To repeat my message of last time:
| Creating the template page itself is easy. Just create a page name
| Template:Map_Features/XXX where XXX is the key; have a look at one of
| the existing pages for more information.
|
| Now we need to check if the TagList is correct and complete. To do so,
| check if all entries on the old map features page have an entry on the
| TagList page (this should be the case if they have wiki entries).
| Also, check if the definition and photo on the new page is not worse
| than the definition on the old page.
|
| (Note: by convention, definitions typically start with 'a' or 'an',
| and avoid repeating the name of the object itself. For example for
natural=wetland, do not use "the wetland tag is used for natural areas
| subject to inundation or with waterlogged ground" but "a natural area
| subject to inundation or with waterlogged ground".)

The other thing that needs to be done is fixing the svg width/height
parameters in the svg's in openstreetmap-carto (see the other messages
in this thread).

-- Matthijs

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Re: [OSM-talk] Taglists support for rendering examples

[Matthijs Melissen]

On 6 November 2016 at 12:52, Jochen Topf  wrote:
> I have now added support to taginfo for showing an example rendering in
> the taglists on the wiki.

Thanks, that's great!

> Note that the "osmcarto-rendering-size" setting in the infobox is not used.
> That setting is really not neccesary if the icons have been written in
> the right way.

I didn't know about that, as far as I'm concerned we should fix these
at source (but I can imagine nebulon42 sees problems of which I'm not
aware).

> (And yes, it would make sense if we didn't have to copy the images into
> the wiki, but there are more issues with that. I am trying to do the
> next step here, not change everything in one go.)

Yes, I agree going in small steps is the best way to go. I haven't had
any time to work on a solution that doesn't require copying.

-- Matthijs

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Re: [OSM-talk] Map features page on wiki

[Matthijs Melissen]

On 21 September 2016 at 09:25, Jochen Topf <joc...@remote.org> wrote:
> On Mi, Sep 21, 2016 at 01:33:28 +0200, Matthijs Melissen wrote:
>> On 1 September 2016 at 15:04, Jochen Topf <joc...@remote.org> wrote:
>> > So, if somebody adds the rendering to the infobox (and tells me about it),
>> > I'll pull that data from taginfo and can put it in the taglist tables.
>>
>> I added it to the infobox as osmcarto-rendering.
>
> Just looked at this and it isn't the greatest format for parsing by
> taginfo due to the wiki-specific syntax:
>
> osmcarto-rendering=[[File:Supermarket-14.svg|14px]]
>
> Could we make it like the "image" attribute instead, just the name of
> the image file?
>
> image=Image:Sainsbury'sGlos.jpg
>
> Or a real URL?

Sure, I fixed this now.

> The size shouldn't be something you have to supply with it, the user
> should decide on the size, using whatever size fits into whatever the
> user is doing.

In this case I think the size is actually valuable data. It would be
nice if the wiki could display the icons real size. For example, shop
icons should be displayed small, while pieces of landuse rendering
should be displayed bigger. I therefore added an extra field to the
InfoBox, specifying the rendering size in openstreetmap-carto. Feel
free to either user this field or ignore it in your application.

-- Matthijs

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Re: [OSM-talk] Map features page on wiki

[Matthijs Melissen]

On 21 September 2016 at 09:53, François Lacombe
 wrote:
> You deal with pages like Template:Map_Features/XXX but power template is
> currently known as Template:Map_Features:power
> Have we to rename the template to Template:Map_Features/Power ?

Yes, for the moment it is necessary to create a new page under a
different name. If you move over the current template to TagList,
non-English language wiki pages will break.

-- Matthijs

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Re: [OSM-talk] Map features page on wiki

[Matthijs Melissen]

On 1 September 2016 at 10:01, Matthijs Melissen
<i...@matthijsmelissen.nl> wrote:
> As a firs step, I included the list here on the Geological map features page:
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Geological
> it seems to work well there.

We now have TagList templates for the following keys:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Template:Map_Features/natural
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Template:Map_Features/geological
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Template:Map_Features/man_made
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Template:Map_Features/emergency
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Template:Map_Features/office

I could use some help with creating TagList templates for the other
keys. Is anybody interested?

Creating the template page itself is easy. Just create a page name
Template:Map_Features/XXX where XXX is the key; have a look at one of
the existing pages for more information.

Now we need to check if the TagList is correct and complete. To do so,
check if all entries on the old map features page have an entry on the
TagList page (this should be the case if they have wiki entries).
Also, check if the definition and photo on the new page is not worse
than the definition on the old page.

(Note: by convention, definitions typically start with 'a' or 'an',
and avoid repeating the name of the object itself. For example for
natural=wetland, do not use "the wetland tag is used for natural areas
subject to inundation or with waterlogged ground" but "a natural area
subject to inundation or with waterlogged ground".)

It would be great if other people would be interested in working on
this as well.

-- Matthijs

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Re: [OSM-talk] Map features page on wiki

[Matthijs Melissen]

On 1 September 2016 at 15:04, Jochen Topf  wrote:
> So, if somebody adds the rendering to the infobox (and tells me about it),
> I'll pull that data from taginfo and can put it in the taglist tables.

I added it to the infobox as osmcarto-rendering.

It is currently only used in the supermarket page:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:shop%3Dsupermarket

I could use some help of others to add the entry to other pages too.

-- Matthijs

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Re: [OSM-talk] Map features page on wiki

[Matthijs Melissen]

On 1 September 2016 at 15:05, Jochen Topf  wrote:
> What are the problems with translations?

I didn't realise the non-English Map Features templates include the
English Map Features template. Nothing we can't fix, but simply
putting TagLists in the English Template:Map_Features:XXX pages won't
work and will break the non-English pages.

-- Matthijs

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Re: [OSM-talk] Map features page on wiki

[Matthijs Melissen]

On 1 September 2016 at 10:01, Matthijs Melissen
<i...@matthijsmelissen.nl> wrote:
> As a firs step, I included the list here on the Geological map features page:
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Geological
> it seems to work well there.

As there are some problems with the translations of the pages, this
has now been reverted.

However, a demo can be found here:

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Math1985/Test

-- Matthijs

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Re: [OSM-talk] Map features page on wiki

[Matthijs Melissen]

On 1 September 2016 at 09:01, Jochen Topf  wrote:
> And feel free to tell me if you need anything more or different. What it
> does at the moment is what I thought might be useful and doable. That
> doesn't mean this is the best solution.

As a firs step, I included the list here on the Geological map features page:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Geological
it seems to work well there.

The only thing not working are the image links, which are currently broken.

On a bit longer term, would it be an idea to add a field for
'rendering' (in the default stylesheet) to the infobox, and include it
on taginfo? I know the 'default' stylesheet is just one of the
stylesheets, and therefore the choice a bit arbitrary, but if the list
has icons, like on http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Shop, it does
make it easier to browse through for me.

-- Matthijs

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Re: [OSM-talk] Map features page on wiki

[Matthijs Melissen]

On Thursday, 1 September 2016, Jochen Topf <joc...@remote.org> wrote:

> On Do, Sep 01, 2016 at 12:42:10 +0200, Matthijs Melissen wrote:
> > We have currently a Map Features page on the wiki:
> > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Map_Features
> >
> > The page also contains definitions for all features. We therefore
> > store the definitions now in two places: in the map features tables
> > and in the infoboxes on the pages themselves.
> >
>
> See https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Taginfo/Taglists . This "just"
> needs some people going through every tag list in the wiki and replacing
> it by the special syntax. The problem ist, as you say, the differing
> descriptions and such, which need to be consolidated in the process.


Great, that's exactly what I needed. Will see what we can do with that.

-- Matthijs
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[OSM-talk] Map features page on wiki

[Matthijs Melissen]

Hi,

We have currently a Map Features page on the wiki:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Map_Features

The page also contains definitions for all features. We therefore
store the definitions now in two places: in the map features tables
and in the infoboxes on the pages themselves.

Duplication of definitions seems not ideal to me. Even though a lot of
people try to update this, there are still quite a lot differences
between the definitions on the map feature pages and the definitions
in the infoboxes.

Do we want to keep the Map Features page? If yes, do we have technical
means to keep the definitions synchronised? Could we perhaps generate
it from Taginfo, or somehow include the definition from the Infobox on
the Map Features page?

-- Matthijs

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[OSM-talk] Analysis of usage of similar tags over time

[Matthijs Melissen]

Hi all,

Recently, a new tool was created by Martin Raifer (@tyrasd) to
generate graphs of the usage of tags over time. This is a great tool
that gives us more insight in what drives the choice of tags by
mappers. The tool can be found at http://taghistory.raifer.tech/.

I wrote an OSM diary to discuss some results:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Math1985/diary/39404#comment35887

-- Matthijs

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Re: [OSM-talk] Mailing lists archive not in Google

[Matthijs Melissen]

On 31 August 2016 at 18:32, Andy Townsend  wrote:
> Maybe I'm missing something, but a web search of e.g. "something
> site:https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/; finds relevant posts?
> Is there something I'm not understanding here?

You're right, something must have gone wrong on my side.

-- Matthijs

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[OSM-talk] Mailing lists archive not in Google

[Matthijs Melissen]

Hi,

The mailing list archives at
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/ are currently not indexed
by Google. I suppose this is caused by the  tag that is included in every page of the
archive.

Would it be possible to remove this tag? I think it would be very
useful if the mailing list archives were searchable.

-- Matthijs

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[OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap Carto release v2.42.0

[Matthijs Melissen]

Dear all,

Today, v2.42.0 of the openstreetmap-carto stylesheet (the default
stylesheet on openstreetmap.org) has been released.

Changes include:
* Add rendering of amenity=charging_station and tourism=artwork
* Change icon of shop=department_store
* Increase font size for various labels
* Change playground color
* Various bug fixes

Thanks to all the contributors for this release, including David
Gianforte, a new contributor.

For a full list of commits, see
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/compare/v2.41.0...v2.42.0

As always, we welcome any bug reports at
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues.

Kind regards,
Matthijs Melissen

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Re: [OSM-talk] Go Map!: Mobile mapping on iOS

[Matthijs Melissen]

On 26 July 2016 at 01:51, Frederik Ramm  wrote:
> I can't speak to the qualities of Go Map! but I think your review should
> also mention the fact that this is proprietary software - it doesn't
> cost anything but you can't look at the source. In that, it is different
> from almost every other OSM editor widely used.

Good point, thank you for the addition.

There doesn't seem to be a (future) business model behind it. I wonder
if this keeping the source closed was a deliberate choice of the
author?

-- Matthijs

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[OSM-talk] Go Map!: Mobile mapping on iOS

[Matthijs Melissen]

Hi all,

I always used to be quite sceptical about mobile mapping applications.
Due to the small screen size and lack of a mouse pointer, mobile
mapping seemed clumsy and error-prone. For me, collecting data in the
field and then adding it on a personal computer with JOSM was the way
to go.

However, my mind has changed completely since I discovered Go Map!, an
application for iOS written by Bryce Cogswell. Nowadays, I'm doing
almost all my mapping in the field straight in Go Map!, and only
rarely do I still resort to JOSM.

Go Map! is designed with a light-weight UI, making mapping easy and
intuitive. In particular, a lot of attention was paid to minimize the
chance of user errors. Some examples:
- Objects are moved by dragging a handle next to the object, rather
than the object itself. This way, you're not obscuring the placement
of the object.
- When drawing a new line, a subtle animation is shown whenever you're
about to connect a node to another node or line.
- The application does not permit the manipulation (such as
straightening) of objects (partially) outside of the view.

I found that entering the results of my surveys straight in Go Map!
saves me a lot of time, and additionally improves the quality of my
data (since one data manipulation step is cut out, and I can verify
results immediately).

Of course, even with Go Map!, accidental data errors might be
possible. And repetitive actions, or manipulation of large areas with
many notes, is perhaps still easier on a desktop computer. But
overall, I find Go Map! a large improvement.

And an additional bonus: whenever passers-by ask you when this map
you're creating can be viewed online, you now can tell them: "in about
two minutes".

I'd recommend every iOS user to give the application at least a try.

The application can be downloaded here:
https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/go-map!!/id592990211?mt=8

-- Matthijs

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Re: [OSM-talk] Viewing pre-redaction OSM tiles?

[Matthijs Melissen]

On 14 July 2016 at 21:16, Pierre Béland  wrote:
> Michal, you might have seen my OSMCompare slider map where I use the FOSM
> layer for comparison.
>
> http://pierzen.dev.openstreetmap.org/hot/leaflet/OSM-Compare-before-after.html#10/27.9083/85.5286

Nice work, inspired on this I just created an alternative view of these maps:
http://bl.ocks.org/math1985/raw/328d6a95a431996813ece839aaf9ff7b/

-- Matthijs

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Re: [OSM-talk] Automated edits code of conduct

[Matthijs Melissen]

On 11 July 2016 at 01:08, Frederik Ramm  wrote:
> The automated edits code of conduct is there for a reason; had user
> Test360 complied with it, then his edit would likely not have been
> faulty

My main issue with the AEcoc is that it is nearly impossible to comply
with, especially the part that says that community consensus is
necessary (or rather, "said", because this requirement seems to have
been silently removed).

Could you point me to a single worldwide mechanical edit that
satisfies the AEcoc guidelines?

-- Matthijs

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Re: [OSM-talk] Automated edits code of conduct

[Matthijs Melissen]

On 10 July 2016 at 23:26, Éric Gillet  wrote:
> What are your thoughts ?

I fully agree with all your points. I think a wider community
discussion on the current guidelines is necessary.

-- Matthijs

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[OSM-talk] Release openstreetmap-carto v2.40.0

[Matthijs Melissen]

Dear all,

Today, v2.40.0 of the openstreetmap-carto stylesheet (the default
stylesheet on openstreetmap.org) has been released and rolled out to
the openstreetmap.org servers. It might take a couple of days before
all tiles show the new rendering.

Changes include:

* More consistent size of icon labels (bigger labels in most cases).
* Changed rendering of power lines on low zoom levels.
* Changed rendering of turning circles.
* Changed icon for libraries and book shops.
* Larger labels for place names.
* Various bug fixes.

For a full list of commits, see
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/compare/v2.39.0...v2.40.0

As always, we welcome any bug reports at
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues.

-- Matthijs

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[OSM-talk] Release openstreetmap-carto v2.38.0

[Matthijs Melissen]

Dear all,

Yesterday, v2.38.0 of the openstreetmap-carto stylesheet has been
released and rolled out to the openstreetmap.org servers. It might
still take a couple of days before all tiles show the new rendering.

Changes include:

* Add rendering for natural=shoal, and natural=reef.
* Change of rendering of linear barriers: keep rendering of barrier
types chain, city_wall, embankment, ditch, fence, guard_rail,
handrail, hedge, kerb, retaining_wall, and wall, and drop rendering of
all other barrier types.
* Add rendering for social facilities.
* New icon for sports shops.
* Changed rendering of cutlines.
* Changed rendering for beach surfaces: add rendering for
surface=fine_gravel, surface=pebbles, and surface=pebblestone; drop
rendering for surface=peeples
* Various other bug fixes and minor improvements.

For a full list of commits, see
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/compare/v2.37.0...v2.38.0

As always, we welcome any bug reports at
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues.

-- Matthijs

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Re: [OSM-talk] Applicability of wiki tagging and votes: may, should or must

[Matthijs Melissen]

On 29 January 2016 at 17:37, Mateusz Konieczny  wrote:
> "but that's not much to do with tagging diversity" - I would dispute
> it, from my personal experience. Tagging diversity IS one of real
> problems in using OSM data.

+1.

-- Matthijs

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Re: [OSM-talk] Applicability of wiki tagging and votes: may, should or must

[Matthijs Melissen]

On 28 January 2016 at 20:16, David Marchal  wrote:
> On a GitHub issue
> (https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues/2027#issuecomment-174443685),
> I've been told that Wiki tagging votes are only advisory and that the
> community is only invited, neither required nor recommended, to follow them.
> As I understand this comment, the community MAY follow the Wiki tagging or
> votes, it does not SHOULD nor MUST follow them. I was under the impression
> that the community at least SHOULD apply the votes results, MUST looking
> unenforceable due to the free tagging principle. Am I wrong on that? What is
> the applicability of the Wiki content?

I don't think this has ever been formally decided.

Personally I am of the opinion that the editor software, and to a
lesser extent the main data consumer software such as
openstreetmap-carto, has way to much power over tagging standards. I
would be in favour of giving more power to the community, and I think
editor/data consumer software should be encouraged to follow the
standards agreed by the community.

Often the counterargument is given that only a handful of people vote
on proposals, but I don't think that's a good argument. Everybody
*can* join in the discussion and the votes if they want to. Apparently
the people who don't are not interested, or perhaps they trust the
regular crowd to make decisions for them. Having the power only in the
hands of the few people that control the major editors and renderers
is no good idea, in my opinion. I therefore think that we as a
community should ask that everybody involved SHOULD follow the voting
results.

-- Matthijs

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[OSM-talk] Release openstreetmap-carto v2.37.0

[Matthijs Melissen]

Dear all,

Today, v2.37.0 of the openstreetmap-carto stylesheet has been
released and rolled out to the openstreetmap.org servers. It might
still take a couple of days before all tiles show the new rendering.

Changes include:

* Improved admin boundaries and labels on low zoom levels
* New farmland colour, making farmland less prominent
* New icons for shop=copyshop and shop=beverages
* Some refinements to the road rendering, based on the feedback we
received on this topic. In particular, roads are now rendered slightly
narrower on z13, z18 and z19.
* Various other bug fixes and minor improvements.

For a full list of commits, see
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/compare/v2.35.0...v2.36.0

As always, we welcome any bug reports at
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues.

-- Matthijs

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Re: [Talk-GB] Restoring a usable map service!

[Matthijs Melissen]

On 31 October 2015 at 03:09, Lester Caine  wrote:
> new indistinguishable rendering primary routes and motorways

For my information, could you take the test on
http://enchroma.com/test/instructions/ and tell me what it says? It's
ok if you prefer to respond off-list.

-- Matthijs

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[OSM-talk] Release openstreetmap-carto v2.36.0

[Matthijs Melissen]

Dear all,

Today, v2.36.0 of the openstreetmap-carto stylesheet has been
released and rolled out to the openstreetmap.org servers. It might
still take a couple of days before all tiles show the new rendering.

Changes include:

* Major rewrite of road and railway rendering, as part of Mateusz
Konieczny's Google Summer of Code project. See
https://blog.openstreetmap.org/2015/10/30/openstreetmap-org-map-changing/
for more information.
* Added rendering of the following tags:
  - amenity=fountain
  - amenity=car_wash
  - historic=wayside_cross and man_made=cross
  - shop=bag
  - shop=outdoor
  - power=plant (labels)
* Changed rendering of the following objects:
  - Placenames (new algorithm for deciding what placenames to render
on low zoomlevels)
  - Road shields
  - Oneway arrows
  - Glaciers
  - Marina labels
  - Station labels
* Dropped rendering of the following tags:
  - amenity=car_sharing (not relevant for the general public)
  - shop=antique (use shop=antiques)
  - shop=betting (use shop=lottery or shop=bookmaker)
  - shop=delicatessen (use shop=deli)
  - shop=dive (use shop=scuba_diving)
  - shop=fish (use shop=seafood, shop=pet, shop=angling or amenity=fast_food)
  - shop=gambling (use shop=lottery, shop=bookmaker, or
leisure=adult_gaming_centre)
  - shop=insurance (use office=insurance)
  - shop=pharmacy (use office=pharmacy)
  - shop=bags (use shop=bag)
* Various other bug fixes and minor improvements.

For a full list of commits, see
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/compare/v2.35.0...v2.36.0

As always, we welcome any bug reports at
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues.

-- Matthijs

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Re: [OSM-talk] Release openstreetmap-carto v2.36.0

[Matthijs Melissen]

On 30 October 2015 at 22:01, Matthijs Melissen <i...@matthijsmelissen.nl> wrote:
>   - shop=pharmacy (use office=pharmacy)

This should be amenity=pharmacy instead of office=pharmacy, of course.

-- Matthijs

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Re: [OSM-talk] Map key

[Matthijs Melissen]

On 17 October 2015 at 10:45, Lester Caine  wrote:
> On 17/10/15 09:03, nebulon42 wrote:
>> I don't know an ETA of this change on the tile servers yet as it is a
>> quite major change. Others may be able to comment on that.
>
> Is this ACTUALLY a 'done deal'? I though there was a going to be at
> least some option to ask if there was a more general agreement for the
> change.

The code is ready for release at the moment. We're just holding back
for a moment to allow the maintainers of iD and the map key to
synchronise.

Of course nothing in the free/open software world is ever a 'done
deal' in the sense that no further changes are possible. The
stylesheet is an ongoing project, so we allow, and in fact we expect,
that there will be further changes to the road colours after we roll
out the current version. At the moment, also taking the comments we
received from the community into account, we find that the changes are
a sufficient improvement to roll out the new colour scheme.

> But I have no doubt other sources will become live if the change goes
> ahead with their own style of map key ...

Yes, as I mentioned before, I agree it'd be useful if the UK community
would come up with their own rendering scheme (or perhaps keep the
current scheme) for people used to the UK colour style, just like
there are regional styles for the French and German colour schemes.

-- Matthijs

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Re: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] Plamts Brook, North Birmingham

[Matthijs Melissen]

Hi Andy,

I hope you and everyone in Birmingham are doing fine.

There seems to be a little ditch here:
https://www.google.nl/maps/@52.5295575,-1.7850049,3a,65.9y,127.32h,61.97t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s1KvjUmlAex9LK-Faj3LTxw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Could that be related?

-- Matthijs

On 11 October 2015 at 19:20, Andy Mabbett  wrote:
> Unless I'm mistaken, we haven't mapped the progress of Plants Brook
> downstream from Plantsbrook Nature Reserve to its confluence with the
> Tame.
>
> The Wikipedia article:
>
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plants_Brook
>
> which I'm trying to expand, is of no help, either.
>
> Is it perhaps culverted?  Where exactly is the confluence?
>
> --
> Andy Mabbett
> @pigsonthewing
> http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] [Talk-gb-westmidlands] New St station platform alignments

[Matthijs Melissen]

On 25 September 2015 at 14:56, Brian Prangle  wrote:
> Does anyone know whether the alignment of the platforms under the concourse
> is based on anything other than pure guesswork? The alignment at either end
> where they can be seen in Bing doesn't look right either. I'm trying to get
> the concourse layout to match the platforms for lifts and escalators and
> they're not quite matching currently.

I'm not sure about the platforms, but I do know that the track
alignment on the Wolverhampton side is not fully correct, and possibly
copied from Bing without a field survey. It would be nice if somebody
could fix this as well.

-- Matthijs

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Re: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] New St station platform alignments

[Matthijs Melissen]

On 25 September 2015 at 14:56, Brian Prangle  wrote:
> Does anyone know whether the alignment of the platforms under the concourse
> is based on anything other than pure guesswork? The alignment at either end
> where they can be seen in Bing doesn't look right either. I'm trying to get
> the concourse layout to match the platforms for lifts and escalators and
> they're not quite matching currently.

I'm not sure about the platforms, but I do know that the track
alignment on the Wolverhampton side is not fully correct, and possibly
copied from Bing without a field survey. It would be nice if somebody
could fix this as well.

-- Matthijs

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Re: [OSM-talk] recent changes in rendering the map make it worse

[Matthijs Melissen]

Hi Henk,

On 22 September 2015 at 12:43, henk van der laan  wrote:
> Over the past couple of month some big changes in the rendering of the
> map have been made.
> These changes do not improve the readabillity of the map, and despite
> it's good intentions do not seem to take into account the basics of map
> rendering, but rather look at tagging and decide on that.

To aid the discussion, here you can compare the old and new rendering
(Netherlands/Belgium/Luxembourg only):
http://bl.ocks.org/tyrasd/raw/67a00dbb869456094373/#9.00/52.3535/5.0572

What mobile device are you using? We received this complaint more
often, but I don't seem to have the same problems on my own device.

> - the map lost it's contrast and colour-opposition. The total map is
> dimmed, and looks flat. This is not an improvement: with the current
> generation of mobile screens it is nearly impossible to read the map in
> bright conditions, let alone in direct sunlight.

Could you be a bit more specific about which objects and zoomlevels
you are referring to?

> - several highway-types have gotten a smaller line-width, up to a point
> where the lines are impossible to see even on a high resolution screen.
> In particular footway/path/cycleway are lost.

This was done (only on low zoomlevels) to prevent clutter of footways
in dense areas, which also caused serious readability problems. See
for example Vondelpark on zoom level 13. We realise it makes it harder
to read footways in less dense areas on zoom levels 13 and 14 (and
only on these), but that's a trade-off we had to make.

> - The combining of footway/path ( apart from beeing wrong to start with )
> led to little red dots. These do not stand out , especially against some
> landuse colours. And again: especially on mobile device in bright
> light they are invisible.

Are there any specific landuse areas where the problem is most severe?

> - dimmed colours seem to make the difference between highways less
> visible: secundary, tertiary and unclassified do not stand out as
> different as they used to.

I agree. We are rolling out a chance soon that will make the highways
much brighter.

> Apart from this the underlying thoughts for the changes are a point of
> concern: reading through the different threads I detect an alarming
> trend to favor roads for motorized traffic over pedestrians/cyclist etc.

This is certainly not a deliberate choice by the team that maintains
the style. Interesting enough, I don't think any of the people who
have been working on the changes you mention even own a car...

> I even read one comment that suggests to get rid of bridleways in
> rendering because there are no bridleways in his aerea ...
> Others doubt the use of different colours for cycleways, because they
> do not form a special roadtype ..  only a legal distinction.
> Following the last thought there would not be any reason to have a
> distinction between primary/secundary/trunk etc. either.

Everyone is free to comment whatever they like, of course... I don't
think any of these arguments were considered as serious reasons to
change the style by the style maintainers.

> Imo OSM is a general map, that is: no particular feature should be left
> out or favored over another. I'm not really interested in powerlines,
> but do not oppose rendering them on the map.

The problem is that we're at a point where we have so many features,
that we need to make choices. For ex
Also, we simply have so many different features now, that we have no
longer enough colours to render them all...

> So the conclusions:
> - Currently the new rendering favors motorized traffic over others.
> If the goal of OSM is to become a road-map like Google that would mean
> the loss of thousands of mappers who use OSM as the only complete map.

No, that's not the goal of OSM or the default rendering.

> - Colourscheme does not adhere to even the basic cartographic rules.

Could you expand on that?

> - Readabillity is rapidly becoming worse. In the past I directed many
> to OSM, praising it's very complete and readable map over Google/Bing.
> That is no longer true.

You're always free to help us improving the style sheet at
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto

> - The new rendering omits the hard work of many contributers who
> walked/cycled miles to give OSM more than just highways.

The stylesheet maintainers are amongst this group, so that's not
really fair criticism.

> I vote to re-enstate the old rendering, honouring the work of many and
> getting a readable map that is supports all users and contributers.

We're always happy to consider improvements to the map, but simply
reverting changes is not the way to go in this case, as that would
also reintroduce the problems solved by these changes in the first
place.

> I wonder how many users would back me up on this.

OSM is not a democracy. :) In particular, concrete proposals on how to
do something are more likely to be considered than 

[OSM-talk] Release openstreetmap-carto v2.35.0

[Matthijs Melissen]

Dear all,

Today, v2.35.0 of the openstreetmap-carto stylesheet has been
released and rolled out to the openstreetmap.org servers. It might
still take a couple of days before all tiles show the new rendering.

Changes include:

* Add new icon for ford
* Stop rendering of landuse=conservation
* Restore rendering of
amenity=kindergarten/school/college/university/grave_yard names
* Various other bug fixes.

For a full list of commits, see
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/compare/v2.34.0...v2.35.0.

As always, we welcome any bug reports at
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues.

-- Matthijs

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Re: [OSM-talk] Release openstreetmap-carto v2.35.0

[Matthijs Melissen]

On 16 September 2015 at 23:30, Tom Hughes <t...@compton.nu> wrote:
> On 16/09/15 21:59, Matthijs Melissen wrote:
>
>> Today, v2.35.0 of the openstreetmap-carto stylesheet has been
>> released and rolled out to the openstreetmap.org servers. It might
>> still take a couple of days before all tiles show the new rendering.
>
>
> No, it has not been rolled out (yet).

Thanks for the correction, I didn't look well... No hurry...

-- Matthijs

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Re: [OSM-talk] [Tagging] Proposed mechanical edit: surface=soil to surface=dirt

[Matthijs Melissen]

On 31 August 2015 at 11:00, Mateusz Konieczny  wrote:
> See
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Mechanical_Edits/Mateusz_Konieczny/surface%3Dsoil_to_surface%3Ddirt
>
> I plan to change surface=soil to surface=dirt. surface=soil is a clear
> duplicate of surface=dirt. It is also less popular and undocumented on
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:surface . surface=soil usage is
> slowly increasing and recently passed threshold of 400 entries
> worldwide. It would be a good idea to retag it to already documented
> tag before this duplicate gets more popular.

Totally agree, I support this edit.

-- Matthijs

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Re: [Talk-GB] Paths and Footways

[Matthijs Melissen]

On 18 Aug 2015 03:56, Andy Townsend ajt1...@gmail.com wrote:
 There's no interest to do this in the OSM standard style because it is
abundantly clear that any new attempts at changes that make rural
navigation possible* in OSM-carto would be rejected based on the ones that
already have been over the last year.

This is not true, a different rendering based on hiking routes or public
rights of way is something we could certainly consider.

Please stop antagonizing the default rendering as if it is on a mission to
make your life as hard as possible, it comes across very childish and is a
counterproductive way of discussing.

 Although it hasn't been explicitly stated, the direction of travel of
that style is clear - some people want a map style that's useful for
navigation, others want something that looks nice; based on comments on
the issues raised it's clear that the people maintaining the style are in
the latter group rather than the former.

Not true either - our main criterium for the recent changes is
readability, and that definitely includes being able to use the map for
navigation.

-- Matthijs
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Re: [Talk-GB] Paths and Footways

[Matthijs Melissen]

On 18 August 2015 at 10:20, Andy Townsend ajt1...@gmail.com wrote:
 On 18/08/2015 07:43, Matthijs Melissen wrote:

 On 18 Aug 2015 03:56, Andy Townsend ajt1...@gmail.com wrote:
 There's no interest to do this in the OSM standard style because it is
 abundantly clear that any new attempts at changes that make rural navigation
 possible* in OSM-carto would be rejected based on the ones that already have
 been over the last year.

 This is not true, a different rendering based on hiking routes or public
 rights of way is something we could certainly consider.


 As I said previously, changes such as this aren't really relevant if you
 can't see the paths themselves at all at a zoom level you'd use for planning
 a route over them..

 However, now you're saying ... a different rendering 

I meant that we could consider changing the current Default rendering.

 In the
 immediately previous message you said:

 So far there is little interest to do this on the OSM default render style
 which seems odd to me given how much fuss there has been on this list to
 recent changes to the footway/path style (over the last year)!

I didn't write that (or anything you address in the rest of your
message) - I am not Rob Nickerson.

-- Matthijs

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Re: [Talk-GB] Paths and Footways

[Matthijs Melissen]

On 16 August 2015 at 21:06, ajt1...@gmail.com ajt1...@gmail.com
 That makes some sense, but OSM-Carto's biggest problem is that a number of
 the changes over the last year have been dedicated to making well-mapped
 central European urban areas look nice at the expense of the rest of the
 planet.

I would like to point out that this statement is incorrect. For all
change requests, we always evaluate the consequences for both rural
and urban settings, and changes are always tested on multiple
countries.  Also, only one out of the four maintainers of the
stylesheet is located in central Europe.

-- Matthijs

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Re: [Talk-GB] Paths and Footways

[Matthijs Melissen]

On 16 August 2015 at 22:57, ajt1...@gmail.com ajt1...@gmail.com wrote:
 Until I provided a counter-example there, the only example on
 https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/pull/747 was of a
 well-mapped central European city.  If there is evaluation of the results in
 both rural and urban settings in multiple countries, it's not getting posted
 to Github.

This is the PR only, other areas were discussed in the corresponding
issue: https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues/211

Also, Luxembourg is not in central Europe.

-- Matthijs

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Re: [OSM-talk] Best base to build on ...

[Matthijs Melissen]

On 15 August 2015 at 17:14, Lester Caine les...@lsces.co.uk wrote:
 The obvious question is that given tilemill is not longer being
 maintained, what are the preferred alternatives?

Depending on what you need exactly, Kosmtik might be an alternative:
https://github.com/kosmtik/kosmtik


-- Matthijs

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Re: [Talk-GB] Retain existing style sheets for UK server

[Matthijs Melissen]

On 8 August 2015 at 22:55, Lester Caine les...@lsces.co.uk wrote:
 What is the best way of cloning the existing style setup for a UK tile
 server?

Some useful resources:

https://switch2osm.org/serving-tiles/manually-building-a-tile-server-14-04/
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues/657#issuecomment-56023323
https://git.openstreetmap.org/chef.git/

Let me know if you have any specific questions.

-- Matthijs

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Re: [Talk-GB] UK style rendering port ...

[Matthijs Melissen]

On 27 July 2015 at 09:06, Lester Caine les...@lsces.co.uk wrote:
 With the discussion on a more self contained 'UK' group I'd like to
 highlight one area that is becoming perhaps more urgent for some of us,
 the idea of a UK style tile set.

I also think it's a good idea for the UK to create there own rendering
server, just like German/France/the Netherlands have their own
rendering servers. I agree this is getting even more urgent now the
default rendering is becoming less UK-centric.

If you would like any technical help with this, please let me know and
I'll try to assist where I can.

One thing I'd like to warn for is not to underestimate the time it
takes to create a rendering, or even to make changes to an existing
rendering.

I hope this project will be a success, and indeed I look forward to
the moment the default style can start borrowing idea from the UK
style! In the past - in the past we have already been borrowing ideas
from the French rendering.

-- Matthijs

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Re: [OSM-talk] Issue-Tracker for http[s]://www.openstreetmap.org

[Matthijs Melissen]

On 16 July 2015 at 15:22, Karl-Philipp Richter rich...@richtercloud.de wrote:
 Is there an issue tracker for http[s]://www.openstreetmap.org or have
 there ever been any plans for such a useful and straightforward way of
 introducing improvements (it'd be not exposed in a mail list archive
 reachable by a search engine, then).

There are actually three thing you see on www.openstreetmap.org: the
map data, the map tiles (rendering style), and the website itself.

To report bugs in the map data, use the 'Add a note to the map'
button. Issues in the rendering style can be reported on
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues. Issues in
the website can be reported on
https://github.com/openstreetmap/openstreetmap-website/.

-- Matthijs

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Re: [Talk-GB] Thrapston viaduct

[Matthijs Melissen]

On 13 July 2015 at 14:13, Philip Barnes p...@trigpoint.me.uk wrote:
 I think this, and blue motorways, is a good argument for why we need a
 UK render of the map.

I agree a UK-specific rendering would be very useful, especially now
the Default style is getting less and less UK-centric.

-- Matthijs

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Re: [Talk-GB] Thrapston viaduct

[Matthijs Melissen]

On 13 July 2015 at 09:53, Andy Mabbett a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk wrote:
 I don't want fudge things to just tag for the renderer, but is there
 a relevant tag missing, or should we change the rendering styles to
 show such objects?

You might be interested in this PR which is currently under review:

https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/pull/1633

-- Matthijs

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Re: [OSM-talk] Release openstreetmap-carto v2.30.0

[Matthijs Melissen]

On 14 May 2015 at 00:34, pmailkeey . pmailk...@googlemail.com wrote:
 On 13 May 2015 at 21:32, Dave F. dave...@madasafish.com wrote:
 There already is an icon for shop=bicycle.

 There's already an icon for amenity=courthouse


Thanks for the corrections Dave and Mike, shop=bicycle and
amenity=court_house are indeed redesigned icons, not new ones

-- Matthijs

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[OSM-talk] Release openstreetmap-carto v2.30.0

[Matthijs Melissen]

Dear all,

Today, v2.30.0 of the openstreetmap-carto stylesheet has been rolled
out to the openstreetmap.org servers.

This version includes the following changes:
* New wetland rendering, including differentiation based on the wetland key.
* Added rendering for amenity=bicycle_parking.
* Added icons for historic=monument, amenity=court_house,
amenity=bench, amenity=waste_basket, man_made=hunting_stand,
shop=alcohol, shop=electronics, shop=furniture, shop=gift,
shop=jewelry/jewellery, shop=mobile_phone, shop=optician, shop=shoes,
shop=diy, shop=hardware, and shop=bicycle.
* Changed icon for shop=clothes, historic=archaeological_site,
highway=bus_stop, tourism=caravan_site, tourism=motel, power=generator
with generator:source=wind, and man_made=lighthouse.
* Added rendering for landuse=greenhouse_horticulture (rendered as
landuse=farmland).
* Changed rendering for man_made=cutline
* Added name labels to tourism=viewpoint, amenity=post_office,
natural=tree, amenity=bicycle_rental,  man_made=mast,
amenity=recycling, amenity=drinking_water, man_made=water_tower,
tourism=picnic_site, leisure=picnic_table, and leisure=slipway,
amenity=car_sharing (operator label) and amenity=atm (operator label).
* Added name labels to natural=cliff and man_made=embankment.
* Better water halos.
* Various bug fixes.

For a full list of commits, see
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/compare/v2.29.0...v2.30.0 .

As always, we welcome any bug reports at
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues.

-- Matthijs

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Re: [Talk-GB] Ref names on Residential roads

[Matthijs Melissen]

On 12 May 2015 10:57, Bob Kerr openstreetmapcraigmil...@yahoo.co.uk
wrote:

 On residential roads where there has been a ref= added is being
rendered on Mapnik. Is this something new since I have not been checking
recently.

No, rendering has not changed in this respect.

Maybe the tag unsigned_ref is an outcome?

-- Matthijs
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Re: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] May Meeting (Disabilty Kurb Project)

[Matthijs Melissen]

Hi all,

I added my Bromsgrove survey to the map.

I surveyed the High Street:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=17/52.33483/-2.05912

and the businesses in the industrial estates at Aston Fields:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=17/52.31863/-2.05871

-- Matthijs

On 5 May 2015 at 11:19, Andy Robinson ajrli...@gmail.com wrote:
 I was planning to do a bit in the Blackwell / Burcot areas, assuming I get
 around to doing some tracing before Thursday.



 Cheers

 Andy



 From: Rob Nickerson [mailto:rob.j.nicker...@gmail.com]
 Sent: 02 May 2015 19:15
 To: Mark Croft
 Cc: talk-gb-westmidlands
 Subject: Re: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] May Meeting (Disabilty Kurb Project)



 Sounds like an interesting project. Hopefully we'll see you in Bromsgrove on
 Thursday to discuss this in more detail. Speaking of which does anyone know
 what the plan is for Bromsgrove. Is there any priority areas that we should
 focus on or shall I just pick something and meet you in the pub afterwards?

 Rob



 On 1 May 2015 at 18:01, Mark Croft mark.croft@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi

 The group has been out to bewdley and did a test run of finding curbs.
 I was not able to join in cos of health problems felling worn out with
 weather n hayfever.


 I should really have a go on my own here around my town in redditch.

 got a stack of photos and a spreadsheet of gps points where there good
 curbs and so reasonable ones that either steep and hard work to push a
 manual wheelchair up and others with a reasonable size drop down to
 the path/road etc etc

 I need to get some clarification on all the different issues with
 curbs and come up with some form of coding and label system.

 first beta version of the map attached (not sure its openstreetmap)

 i want to know to make a seperate layer of points on top of
 openstreetmap? does this need to done on custom webpage and having a
 host etc? I not done any internet programming yet would like the
 challange but also very time limited too get some sort of beat/demo
 copy of at least a paper copy of the map of bewdley.

 Maybe we have a go around bromsgrove on thursday?

 Is taking photos with embedded gps position enough?

 I have a friend that can offer me some free website space? ( i am
 involved in another project called Disability Action Redditch and need
 to redo there website and i am hoping to put this Curb/Kurb project on
 there for now - so that should be up soon or at least a frontpage
 saying that DAR website going live in june/july 2015)

 mark croft redditch


 On 15 April 2015 at 19:42, Brian Prangle bpran...@gmail.com wrote:
 A quick reminder that we're due to meet on Thurs 7 May (Election Night!).
 Thise of us who were at the April meeting decided from our list on
 Bromsgrove ( mainly to support mark a new mapper). Pub is the Golden Cross
 (
 A Wetherspoons ) which might be a challenge as it wasn't on the map when
 we
 decided

 Regards

 Brian

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Re: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] May Meeting (Disabilty Kurb Project)

[Matthijs Melissen]

Ok, I'll include the High Street then.

-- Matthijs
On 7 May 2015 09:38, Andy Robinson ajrli...@gmail.com wrote:

 Matthijs,

 Brian responded to me with  I'll survey the footpath between Lickey End
 and Bromsgrove to get some pics of Crows Mill listed bdgs then I'll drive
 around surveying the OS Locator name issues.  
 He also reminded me about postboxes.

 Cheers
 Andy

 -Original Message-
 From: Matthijs Melissen [mailto:i...@matthijsmelissen.nl]
 Sent: 07 May 2015 01:43
 To: talk-gb-westmidlands
 Subject: Re: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] May Meeting (Disabilty Kurb Project)

 Brian, will you be there? Which area are you planning to map?

 By the way, I don't think it has been mentioned on the list yet, but we'll
 meet today at the Golden Cross Hotel in Bromsgrove:
 http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/443655057#map=18/52.33379/-2.06168

 -- Matthijs

 On 6 May 2015 at 11:20, Matthijs Melissen i...@matthijsmelissen.nl
 wrote:
  Is anyone planning to map the shops in the high street? I think it
  would be useful if they were added, but personally I'd prefer to come
  by bike and do some of the suburbs and the industrial estate.
 
  I'll also do some tracing in advance.
 
  -- Matthijs
 
  On 5 May 2015 at 11:19, Andy Robinson ajrli...@gmail.com wrote:
  I was planning to do a bit in the Blackwell / Burcot areas, assuming
  I get around to doing some tracing before Thursday.
 
 
 
  Cheers
 
  Andy
 
 
 
  From: Rob Nickerson [mailto:rob.j.nicker...@gmail.com]
  Sent: 02 May 2015 19:15
  To: Mark Croft
  Cc: talk-gb-westmidlands
  Subject: Re: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] May Meeting (Disabilty Kurb
  Project)
 
 
 
  Sounds like an interesting project. Hopefully we'll see you in
  Bromsgrove on Thursday to discuss this in more detail. Speaking of
  which does anyone know what the plan is for Bromsgrove. Is there any
  priority areas that we should focus on or shall I just pick something
 and meet you in the pub afterwards?
 
  Rob
 
 
 
  On 1 May 2015 at 18:01, Mark Croft mark.croft@gmail.com wrote:
 
  Hi
 
  The group has been out to bewdley and did a test run of finding curbs.
  I was not able to join in cos of health problems felling worn out
  with weather n hayfever.
 
 
  I should really have a go on my own here around my town in redditch.
 
  got a stack of photos and a spreadsheet of gps points where there
  good curbs and so reasonable ones that either steep and hard work to
  push a manual wheelchair up and others with a reasonable size drop
  down to the path/road etc etc
 
  I need to get some clarification on all the different issues with
  curbs and come up with some form of coding and label system.
 
  first beta version of the map attached (not sure its openstreetmap)
 
  i want to know to make a seperate layer of points on top of
  openstreetmap? does this need to done on custom webpage and having a
  host etc? I not done any internet programming yet would like the
  challange but also very time limited too get some sort of beat/demo
  copy of at least a paper copy of the map of bewdley.
 
  Maybe we have a go around bromsgrove on thursday?
 
  Is taking photos with embedded gps position enough?
 
  I have a friend that can offer me some free website space? ( i am
  involved in another project called Disability Action Redditch and
  need to redo there website and i am hoping to put this Curb/Kurb
  project on there for now - so that should be up soon or at least a
  frontpage saying that DAR website going live in june/july 2015)
 
  mark croft redditch
 
 
  On 15 April 2015 at 19:42, Brian Prangle bpran...@gmail.com wrote:
  A quick reminder that we're due to meet on Thurs 7 May (Election
 Night!).
  Thise of us who were at the April meeting decided from our list on
  Bromsgrove ( mainly to support mark a new mapper). Pub is the Golden
  Cross ( A Wetherspoons ) which might be a challenge as it wasn't on
  the map when we decided
 
  Regards
 
  Brian
 
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Re: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] May Meeting (Disabilty Kurb Project)

[Matthijs Melissen]

Is anyone planning to map the shops in the high street? I think it
would be useful if they were added, but personally I'd prefer to come
by bike and do some of the suburbs and the industrial estate.

I'll also do some tracing in advance.

-- Matthijs

On 5 May 2015 at 11:19, Andy Robinson ajrli...@gmail.com wrote:
 I was planning to do a bit in the Blackwell / Burcot areas, assuming I get
 around to doing some tracing before Thursday.



 Cheers

 Andy



 From: Rob Nickerson [mailto:rob.j.nicker...@gmail.com]
 Sent: 02 May 2015 19:15
 To: Mark Croft
 Cc: talk-gb-westmidlands
 Subject: Re: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] May Meeting (Disabilty Kurb Project)



 Sounds like an interesting project. Hopefully we'll see you in Bromsgrove on
 Thursday to discuss this in more detail. Speaking of which does anyone know
 what the plan is for Bromsgrove. Is there any priority areas that we should
 focus on or shall I just pick something and meet you in the pub afterwards?

 Rob



 On 1 May 2015 at 18:01, Mark Croft mark.croft@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi

 The group has been out to bewdley and did a test run of finding curbs.
 I was not able to join in cos of health problems felling worn out with
 weather n hayfever.


 I should really have a go on my own here around my town in redditch.

 got a stack of photos and a spreadsheet of gps points where there good
 curbs and so reasonable ones that either steep and hard work to push a
 manual wheelchair up and others with a reasonable size drop down to
 the path/road etc etc

 I need to get some clarification on all the different issues with
 curbs and come up with some form of coding and label system.

 first beta version of the map attached (not sure its openstreetmap)

 i want to know to make a seperate layer of points on top of
 openstreetmap? does this need to done on custom webpage and having a
 host etc? I not done any internet programming yet would like the
 challange but also very time limited too get some sort of beat/demo
 copy of at least a paper copy of the map of bewdley.

 Maybe we have a go around bromsgrove on thursday?

 Is taking photos with embedded gps position enough?

 I have a friend that can offer me some free website space? ( i am
 involved in another project called Disability Action Redditch and need
 to redo there website and i am hoping to put this Curb/Kurb project on
 there for now - so that should be up soon or at least a frontpage
 saying that DAR website going live in june/july 2015)

 mark croft redditch


 On 15 April 2015 at 19:42, Brian Prangle bpran...@gmail.com wrote:
 A quick reminder that we're due to meet on Thurs 7 May (Election Night!).
 Thise of us who were at the April meeting decided from our list on
 Bromsgrove ( mainly to support mark a new mapper). Pub is the Golden Cross
 (
 A Wetherspoons ) which might be a challenge as it wasn't on the map when
 we
 decided

 Regards

 Brian

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Re: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] May Meeting (Disabilty Kurb Project)

[Matthijs Melissen]

Brian, will you be there? Which area are you planning to map?

By the way, I don't think it has been mentioned on the list yet, but
we'll meet today at the Golden Cross Hotel in Bromsgrove:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/443655057#map=18/52.33379/-2.06168

-- Matthijs

On 6 May 2015 at 11:20, Matthijs Melissen i...@matthijsmelissen.nl wrote:
 Is anyone planning to map the shops in the high street? I think it
 would be useful if they were added, but personally I'd prefer to come
 by bike and do some of the suburbs and the industrial estate.

 I'll also do some tracing in advance.

 -- Matthijs

 On 5 May 2015 at 11:19, Andy Robinson ajrli...@gmail.com wrote:
 I was planning to do a bit in the Blackwell / Burcot areas, assuming I get
 around to doing some tracing before Thursday.



 Cheers

 Andy



 From: Rob Nickerson [mailto:rob.j.nicker...@gmail.com]
 Sent: 02 May 2015 19:15
 To: Mark Croft
 Cc: talk-gb-westmidlands
 Subject: Re: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] May Meeting (Disabilty Kurb Project)



 Sounds like an interesting project. Hopefully we'll see you in Bromsgrove on
 Thursday to discuss this in more detail. Speaking of which does anyone know
 what the plan is for Bromsgrove. Is there any priority areas that we should
 focus on or shall I just pick something and meet you in the pub afterwards?

 Rob



 On 1 May 2015 at 18:01, Mark Croft mark.croft@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi

 The group has been out to bewdley and did a test run of finding curbs.
 I was not able to join in cos of health problems felling worn out with
 weather n hayfever.


 I should really have a go on my own here around my town in redditch.

 got a stack of photos and a spreadsheet of gps points where there good
 curbs and so reasonable ones that either steep and hard work to push a
 manual wheelchair up and others with a reasonable size drop down to
 the path/road etc etc

 I need to get some clarification on all the different issues with
 curbs and come up with some form of coding and label system.

 first beta version of the map attached (not sure its openstreetmap)

 i want to know to make a seperate layer of points on top of
 openstreetmap? does this need to done on custom webpage and having a
 host etc? I not done any internet programming yet would like the
 challange but also very time limited too get some sort of beat/demo
 copy of at least a paper copy of the map of bewdley.

 Maybe we have a go around bromsgrove on thursday?

 Is taking photos with embedded gps position enough?

 I have a friend that can offer me some free website space? ( i am
 involved in another project called Disability Action Redditch and need
 to redo there website and i am hoping to put this Curb/Kurb project on
 there for now - so that should be up soon or at least a frontpage
 saying that DAR website going live in june/july 2015)

 mark croft redditch


 On 15 April 2015 at 19:42, Brian Prangle bpran...@gmail.com wrote:
 A quick reminder that we're due to meet on Thurs 7 May (Election Night!).
 Thise of us who were at the April meeting decided from our list on
 Bromsgrove ( mainly to support mark a new mapper). Pub is the Golden Cross
 (
 A Wetherspoons ) which might be a challenge as it wasn't on the map when
 we
 decided

 Regards

 Brian

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Re: [OSM-talk] Wiki project: Article about the standard layer, with key

[Matthijs Melissen]

On 26 April 2015 at 16:11, colliar colliar4e...@aol.com wrote:
 Nice work so far, but are the any plans on carto side and on the wiki
 side to support the taginfo feature projects ?

From the carto side not at the moment, see
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues/961 .

It is currently not possible to generate the list of supported tags
automatically, and nobody has volunteered to maintain the list
manually.

-- Matthijs

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Re: [OSM-talk] Wiki project: Article about the standard layer, with key

[Matthijs Melissen]

On 20 April 2015 at 13:27, Wuzzy wuz...@mail.ru wrote:
 I have created a wiki page about the Standard layer found on
 www.openstreetmap.org

 Here it is:
 https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Standard_tile_layer

Thanks for that!

I think Andy was also trying to create an updated map key, but I'm not
sure if he's still working on it. He used software he created for that
himself:
https://github.com/gravitystorm/mapnik-legendary

 Here are two goals of this wiki page:
 1) Concentrate on user's view, not mapper's view
 2) Give a brief description of the Standard layer and other information
 of intererest.
 3) Document all the map colors, symbols and lines. Also known as “key”.

You might also be interested in
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/blob/master/README.md
and
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/blob/master/CARTOGRAPHY.md .

I think it would be good not to duplicate too much information.

 There are the following challenges:
 - I want to have the pure, unaltered icons in their original size. Many
   icons I found in the wiki are pretty outdated.

Everything you need is in
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/tree/master/symbols
.

 - If possible, the icons should be stored as uniform as possible in the
   wiki. It looks ugly if all the icons are displayed in different sizes

I'm not sure what you mean by that, do the icons above help?

 - Documenting all the non-obvious stuff about the layer, such as that
   private access things are drawn semi-transparent, etc.

Would be useful indeed, I'm afraid you'd need to read the source code for that.

 - Keeping this whole thing up to date

Yes, that would be the largest challenge. Perhaps a pseudo-automated
solution, such as legendary, would be the easiest to keep things up to
date.

 You can help by:
 - Extending the key
 - Give advice if you know more about the inner workings of the Standard
   layer
 - Uploading missing icons into the wiki
 - Updating outdated icons in the wiki
 - Adding more general information about this layer

I don't really have time to actively contribute to updating the page,
but I'm happy to help with any questions you might have (I'm one of
the maintainers of the Standard style).

-- Matthijs

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Re: [OSM-talk] Proposed Semi Mechanical Edit : recycling:excrement

[Matthijs Melissen]

Good idea, I support this proposal.

-- Matthijs
On 17 Apr 2015 02:14, Bryce Nesbitt bry...@obviously.com wrote:

 See http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Mechanical_Edits/Bryce_C_Nesbitt

 The tag recycling:excrement is used 55 times, and has at least four
 distinct meanings.
 I propose to use context to determine the meaning, and retag according to
 current conventions. For example recycling:excrement at a marina dock
 will be assume as a marine sewage pumpout station.  The same tag in a city
 park will be a dog waste bin.  Usually it's quite clear.

 This is not a true mechanical edit per
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Automated_Edits_code_of_conduct
 as I will examine each node by hand, and exit by hand.  Regardless, I am
 writing to solicit comments or concerns.  I will not visit the locations,
 but may reference official websites.

 Given the state of the tag, I expect zero data consumer impact.

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Re: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] April Meeting Thursday 2nd April

[Matthijs Melissen]

Hi Brian,

I will be abroad, so I won't be able to make it.

-- Matthijs

On 26 March 2015 at 14:18, Brian Prangle bpran...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hi everyone

 Just a reminder that we're meeting in the Black Eagle Factory Road (nearest
 Metro Stop Soho Benson Road) probably from about 8 pm onwards so as to allow
 mapping beforehand. Can you let me know if you're planning to come as I've
 got to arrange logistics with a video crew who are wanting to film mapping
 on the ground and will want to conduct some interviews (apologies if it
 eats into mapping time) Might be a good idea to have everyone's mobile nos
 for the night

 Regards

 Brian

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Re: [OSM-talk] Voting on voting system for proposals

[Matthijs Melissen]

On 18 March 2015 at 21:43, Clifford Snow cliff...@snowandsnow.us wrote:
 Paul,
 Since you are involved with updating the rendering, can you tell us the
 process to decide what should be rendered? I realize that part of it must be
 stylistic, but what outside influences cause you to include a tag as part of
 the standard rendered OSM tile? Would you render a tag without a wiki entry,
 or with just a proposal?

I'm not Paul, but I can give you my view:
As far as I know, we don't have a policy on which tags to include in
the rendering, and there is currently no consensus within the
development team on what the best policy would be. Personally I'm
trying to steer towards requiring an accepted proposal plus
documentation on the wiki before rendering a new tag, but I know not
all of the developers share this point of view. Currently, proposals
for newly rendered tags are currently discussed on a case by case
base.

 How does the fact that it may be useful to specific groups, ie, cyclists
 which has its own style impact your decisions?

Objects aimed at specific user groups are less likely to be rendered,
and if they are rendered they will appear at higher zoomlevels. For
example, we don't render fire hydrants because they are of little
interest to the general public.

-- Matthijs

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Re: [OSM-talk] Formal proposal: mechanically reverting fixme=set␣better␣denotation / denotation=cluster

[Matthijs Melissen]

On 1 March 2015 at 21:04, Bryce Nesbitt bry...@obviously.com wrote:
 This is now a formal proposal to mechanically remove:

 denotation=cluster
 fixme=set␣better␣denotation


 From 200,000+ nodes.  See
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Mechanical_Edits/Bryce_C_Nesbitt


I support this proposal.

-- Matthijs

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Re: [OSM-talk] Mechanically Cleaning Up FIXME Tags

[Matthijs Melissen]

On 27 February 2015 at 14:30, JB jb...@mailoo.org wrote:
 On http://resultmaps.neis-one.org/osm-notes-overview, I prefer the first
 graph, showing how the notes db is already getting clustered

I find the page in fact a bit hard to read (but apart from that very
useful). What is the difference between the first and fourth graph?

In my opinion, the main performance indicator should be the monthly
number of notes closed. As long as the monthly number of closed notes is
increasing, I think it doesn't really matter if the proportion of
close-to-open actions is increasing too. Is there any way in which I
can read the monthly number of close actions from the graphs?

-- Matthijs

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Re: [OSM-talk] Standard rendering totally fuzzy for countries boundaries

[Matthijs Melissen]

On 26 February 2015 at 12:39, Severin Menard severin.men...@gmail.com wrote:
 I would like to know where is the good door to knock on to report an issue
 with the OSM standard rendering. For a few months, it became totally fuzzy
 regarding the countries boundaries, almost preventing to distinguish the
 countries from each other. Eg in Westerm Africa from zoom 4, then zoom in on
 Senegal and Gambia down to zoom 9:
 http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=4/15.88/-6.37
 I suggest to use the great improvements made on the osmfr rendering.


This is a known problem, see the following issue:

https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues/907

-- Matthijs

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Re: [OSM-talk] Standard rendering totally fuzzy for countries boundaries

[Matthijs Melissen]

On 26 February 2015 at 13:56, Severin Menard severin.men...@gmail.com wrote:
 Do the people in charge of the rendering plan to solve this? The UI is
 improving more and more, would be great if the standard map becomes fully
 understandable.

Yes, we're planning to solve this (it is bothering me too). However,
there are still 333 other open issues, and the people in charge are
volunteers with a limited amount of time. If you would like to speed
things up, you're more than welcome to join us and write a pull
request on Github.

-- Matthijs

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Re: [OSM-talk] Routing on osm.org

[Matthijs Melissen]

On 16 February 2015 at 19:20, Rob Nickerson rob.j.nicker...@gmail.com wrote:
 Congratulations to all those who were involved in getting directions/routing
 on openstreetmap.org :-)

A large step forward, thanks to Richard Fairhurst and all others who
made this possible!

-- Matthijs

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Re: [OSM-talk] How We Map

[Matthijs Melissen]

On 10 February 2015 at 12:19, Jo Walsh metaz...@fastmail.net wrote:
 I wish to float this draft page for discussion and possibly future
 approval!

 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/How_We_Map

I welcome this page, I think it is very useful.

One small comment - I oppose the following sentence:

| OpenStreetMap has very few rules on tagging. There are tagging
| standards but they evolve instead of being pushed through.

There is no consensus on this point, and including it in official 'How
we map' guidelines would falsely suggest that there exists such a
consensus. It is also not true that we map in this way: many tags that
we are using have been proposed before they were used, see
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Category:Proposed_features_%22Approved%22.

Also, the meaning of this sentence is not clear: what does it mean for
a tagging standard to 'evolve', and what does it mean for a tagging
standard to be 'pushed through'?

In any case, I would like to thank you for drafting this document.

-- Matthijs

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[OSM-talk] Release openstreetmap-carto v2.28.0

[Matthijs Melissen]

Dear all,

Yesterday, v2.28.0 of the openstreetmap-carto stylesheet has been released
and rolled out to the openstreetmap.org servers.

This version includes the following changes:
* The tags amenity=dentist and amenity=townhall are now rendered.
* The tag natural=lake, which has fallen in disuse, is no longer rendered.
* New icons for amenity=fast_food, amenity=police,
amenity=fire_station, amenity=bier_garden, amenity=theatre,
amenity=drinking_water.
* Slightly improved icons for amenity=restaurant, amenity=bar,
amenity=cafe, amenity=embassy, tourism=picnic_site,
tourism=picnic_table, amenity=prison, historic=memorial.
* Waterways with intermittent=yes are now rendered dashed.
* The tag highway=proposed is rendered less prominently.
* Slightly change building colour and outline.
* Labels for natural=glacier,sand,scree,shingle,bare_rock are now
rendered from lower zoomlevels.

For a full list of commits, see
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/compare/v2.27.0...v2.28.0 .

As always, we welcome any bug reports at
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues.

-- Matthijs

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Re: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] Social this Thursday

[Matthijs Melissen]

I will be there this Thursday (hopefully not on my own).

-- Matthijs

On 3 February 2015 at 09:24, Andy Robinson ajrli...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hi folks, its first Thursday of the month this week. Unfortunately I have a
 prior engagement but hope you all have a good meet up. At the Bull??

 Cheers
 Andy


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[OSM-talk] Release openstreetmap-carto v2.27.0

[Matthijs Melissen]

Dear all,

Today, v2.27.0 of the openstreetmap-carto stylesheet has been
released and rolled out to the openstreetmap.org servers.

Changes include:

* The following tags are now rendered: amenity=food_court,
amenity=doctors, natural=scree, natural=shingle, natural=bare_rock,
leisure=water_park, leisure=miniature_golf.
* The tags leisure=golf_course is now rendered with an icon.
* The following tags are no longer rendered: natural=desert,
military=barracks, and landuse=field are no longer rendered. The tags
natural=sand, landuse=military, and landuse=farmland might in some
cases be replacements.
* New icons for amenity=pharmacy, amenity=atm, amenity=bank,
shop=bakery, and amenity=cinema.
* Slightly improved icon for amenity=hospital, tourism=museum,
amenity=recycling, tourism=camping, leisure=playground, places of
worship.
* Private leisure=playground and amenity=recycling are now rendered transparent
* Prison areas are now rendered.
* Various bug fixes.

For a full list of commits, see
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/compare/v2.26.1...v2.27.0

As always, we welcome any bug reports at
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues.

-- Matthijs

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Re: [Talk-GB] Unsigned road names (was Fix the road name!)

[Matthijs Melissen]

On 24 January 2015 at 20:33, SomeoneElse li...@atownsend.org.uk wrote:
 However, there are names where the name in OSM is what the local authority
 uses, and what local people would agree that it is called, but there's no
 sign on the ground.  How do we reflect that?

I just wanted to add that this does not necessarily only concern small
rural tracks, which you might expect to be unsigned. An example of a
major road that is unsigned is Paradise Street in Birmingham city
centre.

-- Matthijs

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Re: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] Mappa Mercia events

[Matthijs Melissen]

Hi all,

Some suggestions:

- In Coventry there's always a lot to do, and there are not so many
local mappers, so I'd suggest to revisit Coventry.
- The Black Country also has gotten less attention than other places.
It's probably best to meet somewhere along the railway or tramway.
Would Tipton be suitable?
- Stourbridge
- Within Birmingham there are also some areas that are mapped less
densely, such as around Small Heath and Handsworth. Perhaps not the
nicest areas, but I'm sure we'd be able to find a pub somewhere around
there. The advantage of staying in the city is of course that we don't
have too much travel time.

I have the impression that Saturday meetings seem to have a higher
turnout than evening meetings, as they also allow people from a bit
further afield to join. Maybe we could also plan again one or two
Saturday meetings in the Summer?

Best regards,
Matthijs

On 19 January 2015 at 21:54, Rob Nickerson rob.j.nicker...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hi All,

 I've sketched out a blank template of upcoming Mappa Mercia events so that
 everyone knows the dates of our future meets. April's is on the day before
 Good Friday so we may want to consider moving that one closer to the date if
 it is apparent that attendance will be low.

 SUGGESTIONS: Please suggest mapping locations. We had a lot of success
 mapping Shenstone [1] last year as this turned out to be a perfect size for
 us to map in one evening.

 Best,
 Rob

 [1] http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=14/52.6364/-1.8386

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Re: [OSM-talk] Release openstreetmap-carto v2.26.1

[Matthijs Melissen]

Dear all,

Today, v2.26.1 of the openstreetmap-carto stylesheet has been released
and rolled out to the openstreetmap.org servers.

This version only includes one change:
* Areas tagged with amenity=place_of_worship and no building tag are
rendered again.

For a full list of commits, see
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/compare/v2.26.0...v2.26.1.

As always, we welcome any bug reports at
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues.

-- Matthijs

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Re: [OSM-talk] Request for feedback: new building colours in openstreetmap-carto

[Matthijs Melissen]

Dear all,

A couple or comments:

- We are aware that not everyone likes the new colours, but the
comments we received (both here and on Github) indicates that a
majority prefers lighter colours.

- Can anyone who dislikes the new building colours please indicate
which hardware you are using when looking at the map? It would be
interesting to see if the problems are worse on certain types of
hardware. It would be even better if you could compare multiple
devices (e.g. desktop and mobile, or desktop and laptop).

- I'd be happy with more customisation of the style.  One of the
explicit design goals of osm-carto is to make the style easily
customizable. I agree it would be nice to have easy customisation
available through osm.org, but I have my hands full on the current
stylesheet already, so it won't be me who will be implementing that.

- Lester, the discussion was not a couple of days over the holiday
season. My initial request for feedback was at 27 November.

Also I'm sorry if I don't respond to every comment individually. I am
trying to balance the time spend on communicating with the community
and writing code - if I would go into individual discussions with
everyone on the list, I wouldn't be able to write a single line of
code. I hope I'm striking the right balance.

Kind regards,
Matthijs

On 27 November 2014 at 01:16, Matthijs Melissen
i...@matthijsmelissen.nl wrote:
 Dear all,

 We are considering to change the colour of buildings in
 openstreetmap-carto, the default rendering on openstreetmap.org.
 Because this change has a significant effect on the looks of the map,
 we would like to consult the community before going ahead with this
 change.

 A rendering demo can be found here (left the current rendering, right
 the proposal):
 http://bl.ocks.org/pnorman/raw/c61d6b11193081910866/#15.00/50.0611/19.9393
 http://bl.ocks.org/pnorman/raw/c61d6b11193081910866/#14.00/40.7048/-74.0040
 Please note that only selected regions have been loaded into the demo server.

 As can be seen, the new building colour is much lighter. This should
 make the map more pleasant to the eye, as well as make it easier to
 see the road network in areas with many buildings.

 More info can be found in the Github issue:
 https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/pull/565. I would
 like to thank Paul Norman and Mateusz Konieczny, who have done the
 majority of the work.

 Please let us know what you think of the new rendering, either on
 Github or as a reply to this message.

 Kind regards,
 Matthijs

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Re: [OSM-talk] Request for feedback: new building colours in openstreetmap-carto

[Matthijs Melissen]

On 27 November 2014 at 01:16, Matthijs Melissen
i...@matthijsmelissen.nl wrote:
 We are considering to change the colour of buildings in
 openstreetmap-carto, the default rendering on openstreetmap.org.
 Because this change has a significant effect on the looks of the map,
 we would like to consult the community before going ahead with this
 change.

I would like to thank everyone for their feedback, either here or on
Github. The new style has been accepted with some improvements, and is
about to be deployed.

We have changed some aspects of the rendering as the result of your
suggestions. In particular, we made the buildings a bit darker on zoom
levels up to zoom 14, and we shifted the colour to colour that is more
gray rather than brownish.

There are still a couple of minor issues of which we are aware, such
as the rendering of buildings on top of barracks. We will keep working
on solving these.

We also haven't taken a definite decision on whether to render
churches darker or not. It is clear that opinions diverge on this
topic. We might reconsider the decision to render churches darker in
the future.

-- Matthijs

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[OSM-talk] Release openstreetmap-carto v2.26.0

[Matthijs Melissen]

Dear all,

Today, v2.26.0 of the openstreetmap-carto stylesheet has been
released. It will be rolled out to the openstreetmap.org servers soon.

Changes include:

* Buildings are now rendered in a much lighter colour
* Airport labels are rendered in a different colour
* The tag natural=mud is rendered from z10 instead of z13
* City names no longer hide country and state names on low zoom levels
* The tag natural=saddle is now rendered
* Areas tagged as tourism=attraction are no longer rendered in a special way
* Various bug fixes

For a full list of commits, see
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/compare/v2.25.0...v2.26.0.

As always, we welcome any bug reports at
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues.

-- Matthijs

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[Talk-gb-westmidlands] Monthly meeting?

[Matthijs Melissen]

Dear all,

Happy new year to all of you!

I'm not sure if we decided anything about the monthly meeting in the Bull
tonight? I suppose because of the New Year and our meeting this Saturday we
won't meet tonight, but just wanted to verify.

-- Matthijs
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Re: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] Monthly meeting?

[Matthijs Melissen]

On 1 January 2015 at 16:50, Rob Nickerson rob.j.nicker...@gmail.com wrote:
 Are you sorted for Saturday or do you need a lift?

I arranged for Jerry to pick me up from Burton.

-- Matthijs

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Re: [Talk-GB] Totesport

[Matthijs Melissen]

On 21 December 2014 at 12:33, SomeoneElse li...@atownsend.org.uk wrote:
 I'd be tempted to add OSM notes for these containing a link to the problem
 node or way since http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/1117527074 hasn't been
 touched for four years; it's likely that other shops have changed hands too.

I don't want to paralyze the notes system by adding too many notes, so
for the time being I'm not adding more notes related to shop tagging
than are being resolved. In the meanwhile, 8 notes added by me have
been resolved, so I added now 8 new notes for the Totesport shops.

-- Matthijs

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Re: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] Fwd: Post-Christmas Midlands OSM Meet-up

[Matthijs Melissen]

On 29 December 2014 at 17:42, Rob Nickerson rob.j.nicker...@gmail.com wrote:
 Also if anyone wants to do some mapping from home before we head out there's
 quite a bit to be done aligning roads, mapping landuse and/or tracing
 buildings.

I have traced the buildings in Hanbury.

-- Matthijs

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Re: [Talk-GB] [Talk-gb-westmidlands] Fwd: Post-Christmas Midlands OSM Meet-up

[Matthijs Melissen]

On 29 December 2014 at 17:42, Rob Nickerson rob.j.nicker...@gmail.com wrote:
 Also if anyone wants to do some mapping from home before we head out there's
 quite a bit to be done aligning roads, mapping landuse and/or tracing
 buildings.

I have traced the buildings in Hanbury.

-- Matthijs

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