Re: [Talk-GB] UPRN Locations Map

That is a good point and if the councils agree to publish under OGL, that would be ideal. Perhaps need to consider what data should be requested as a standard submission? For example, apart from the UPRN related data (i.e. whether parent/child, historic, provisional) the request could perhaps

Re: [Talk-GB] UPRN Locations Map

On 26/09/2020 13:46, David Woolley wrote: OS are in a funny position, in that they are in the public sector, but are expected to be self funding.  To the extent that they succeed in the latter, they don't owe a duty to the taxpayer. But since the vast majority of the UPRN data is actually

Re: [Talk-GB] UPRN Locations Map

On 26/09/2020 13:06, Russ Garrett wrote: There is no legal obligation for FoI responses to be openly licensed. The point of FoI is to make information available for inspection, but not (necessarily) for reuse. To expand on that. Larger UK companies tend to be very intellectual property based,

Re: [Talk-GB] UPRN Locations Map

Are there grounds to appeal that decision? I don't know for sure, but I would have thought the point of FOI is to make info generally accessible. If payment allows you to do nothing useful with the data because it's wrapped in restrictive licence conditions (which I'm sure it would be), then

Re: [Talk-GB] UPRN Locations Map

The update on the FOIA request https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/lists_of_historic_and_parent_upr is worth a read!! Makes you wonder at the value of releasing open data that has limited value to the public? On 01/08/2020 20:24, Nick wrote: As a follow up, Robert Whittaker also

Re: [Talk-GB] UPRN Locations Map

On 02/08/2020 11:58, Jez Nicholson wrote: My initial thought was also "conspiracy!". Licence problem is more likely, or perhaps they were concerned that someone might poll the URL with every available UPRN. I'm certain that it's been done to prevent people using the EA site as a means of

Re: [Talk-GB] UPRN Locations Map

Hi Jez You can limit the number of requests to a specific URL (or set of URLs) by IP address - so polling "every available UPRN" would not be an issue (e.g. can limit the number of requests from a given IP over a given time period). Cheers Nick On 02/08/2020 11:58, Jez Nicholson wrote:

Re: [Talk-GB] UPRN Locations Map

On Sun, 2 Aug 2020 at 11:58, Jez Nicholson wrote: >>> the Environment Agency flood risk website no longer >>> allows you to link directly to a property by UPRN > perhaps they were concerned that someone might poll the URL with every > available UPRN. If that were the case, I'm confident the

Re: [Talk-GB] UPRN Locations Map

My initial thought was also "conspiracy!". Licence problem is more likely, or perhaps they were concerned that someone might poll the URL with every available UPRN. On Sun, 2 Aug 2020, 11:38 Nick, wrote: > I have no problem with licencing but the UPRN and related data is > managed by Authority

Re: [Talk-GB] UPRN Locations Map

I have no problem with licencing but the UPRN and related data is managed by Authority custodians - do they not retain ownership of that data? If the authorities sell it to OS, then should this be raised with The Rt Hon Alok Sharma MP (he owns 100% of the shares of OS)? N.B. there are some

Re: [Talk-GB] UPRN Locations Map

On Sun, 2 Aug 2020 at 10:20, Andy Mabbett wrote: > Do you have a plausible hypothesis to explain the removal of UPRNs > from the flood warning pages, that also gives us a reason to trust the > organisation that enacted that change? It's almost certainly because some lawyer or other spotted that

Re: [Talk-GB] UPRN Locations Map

On Sun, 2 Aug 2020 at 09:41, Nick wrote: > On 01/08/2020 21:19, Mark Goodge wrote: > > I'm pretty certain this is deliberate, in order to stop people using > > their site as a way to look up addresses from a UPRN. And I suspect > > it's part of the same attempts by GeoPlace to deliberately

Re: [Talk-GB] UPRN Locations Map

Personally, I don't think that classifying UPRNs (e.g. historic, parent, non-addressable etc.) nor publishing dynamically the allocations to the custodians of batches of UPRNs would detract from the commercial value derived by Ordnance Survey (OS). I fully understand that as a limited company,

Re: [Talk-GB] UPRN Locations Map

On 01/08/2020 20:24, Nick wrote: As a follow up, Robert Whittaker also submitted an FOI asking for "... a list of all UPRNs that are classified as 'historic', and a separate list of all those classified as a 'parent' ". the logicto me was that this would help users of Open Data to then

Re: [Talk-GB] UPRN Locations Map

As a follow up, Robert Whittaker also submitted an FOI asking for "... a list of all UPRNs that are classified as 'historic', and a separate list of all those classified as a 'parent' ". the logicto me was that this would help users of Open Data to then filter these out. The response that

Re: [Talk-GB] UPRN Locations Map

On Sunday, 5 July 2020 18:42:43 BST Mark Goodge wrote: > On 05/07/2020 18:35, Robert Skedgell wrote: > > On 05/07/2020 17:58, Mark Goodge wrote: > >> Just out of interest, is there any simple way to export data from > >> GeoPackage (eg, to GML or GeoJSON) via the command line on Linux? I've > >>

Re: [Talk-GB] UPRN Locations Map

On 05/07/2020 18:42, I wrote: On 05/07/2020 18:35, Robert Skedgell wrote: Is it possible that your installation of GDAL doesn't include support for the GPKG vector driver? Yes, I get the error Unable to open datasource `osopenusrn_202007.gpkg' with the following drivers Just as a

Re: [Talk-GB] UPRN Locations Map

On 02/07/2020 17:38, Robert Whittaker (OSM lists) wrote: I'm not completely sure if/how we can best make use of the new OS OpenData (UPRNs, USRNs and related links) in OpenStreetMap, but as a first step I've set up a quick slippy map with the UPRN locations shown:

Re: [Talk-GB] UPRN Locations Map

Hi Jez To clarify, what I did was to find a 'suspicious' UPRN (two pins on one building with different address details). I then looked up the address on an online system (e.g. OneScotlandGazetteer or the local authority online Planning system) to check the details (UPRN and address). That

Re: [Talk-GB] UPRN Locations Map

Sorry, i mean 'findmyaddress'. Also, from this Twitter thread https://twitter.com/jnicho02/status/1279821108783579139?s=20 I note that some streets have a UPRN. Existing services filter them out. On Mon, 6 Jul 2020, 12:29 Jez Nicholson, wrote: > Do you mean that you looked up the UPRN on

Re: [Talk-GB] UPRN Locations Map

Do you mean that you looked up the UPRN on findmystreet and it's supposedly in a different location to the latlon in the file? On Mon, 6 Jul 2020, 12:26 Nick, wrote: > So I have just started with my crude system and already found one UPRN > that looks as if it is in the wrong location (wrong

Re: [Talk-GB] UPRN Locations Map

So I have just started with my crude system and already found one UPRN that looks as if it is in the wrong location (wrong postcode 6BT > 6ST ~ and wrong county). If I am correct, then this demonstrates the value of opening up data to more 'eyes'. Not sure how we could collate all lists of

Re: [Talk-GB] UPRN Locations Map

I went for the crude approach as my computer is not that powerful, so I split the CSV into chunks and imported batches into QGIS with county/postcode boundaries as my interest is trying to understand how the UPRNs have been batched. Not elegant but means that I now can focus on our area and

Re: [Talk-GB] UPRN Locations Map

On 05.07.2020 18:45, Kai Michael Poppe - OSM wrote: > On 05.07.2020 17:51, Andy Mabbett wrote: >> Naive question - can that be added as a layer in JOSM? If so, how? > I'll have to check whether I can manage that anyway with the new server > now. Will come back to this. Meh. 3 hours in, every

Re: [Talk-GB] UPRN Locations Map

On 05/07/2020 17:58, Mark Goodge wrote: > > > On 05/07/2020 17:45, Kai Michael Poppe - OSM wrote: >> On 05.07.2020 17:51, Andy Mabbett wrote: >> I've set up a quick slippy map with the UPRN locations shown: https://osm.mathmos.net/addresses/uprn/ (zoom in to level 16 to show

Re: [Talk-GB] UPRN Locations Map

On 05/07/2020 17:45, Kai Michael Poppe - OSM wrote: On 05.07.2020 17:51, Andy Mabbett wrote: I've set up a quick slippy map with the UPRN locations shown: https://osm.mathmos.net/addresses/uprn/ (zoom in to level 16 to show the data) Naive question - can that be added as a layer in JOSM?

Re: [Talk-GB] UPRN Locations Map

On Thu, 2 Jul 2020 at 17:38, Robert Whittaker (OSM lists) wrote: > I've set up a quick slippy map with the UPRN locations shown: > > https://osm.mathmos.net/addresses/uprn/ (zoom in to level 16 to show the data) Naive question - can that be added as a layer in JOSM? If so, how? -- Andy

Re: [Talk-GB] UPRN Locations Map

On 04/07/2020 23:14, Cj Malone wrote: On Sat, 2020-07-04 at 22:24 +0100, Lester Caine wrote: What is needed is a means of adding LAYERS of data which can be managed either via third party data sets, or manual edited using existing tools to add data that is missing from the narrow view confined

Re: [Talk-GB] UPRN Locations Map

On Sat, 2020-07-04 at 22:24 +0100, Lester Caine wrote: > What is needed is a means of adding LAYERS of data which can be > managed either via third party data sets, or manual edited using > existing tools to add data that is missing from the narrow view > confined to 'current' objects ... If I

Re: [Talk-GB] UPRN Locations Map

On 04/07/2020 20:33, David Woolley wrote: On 04/07/2020 18:24, Lester Caine wrote: The current 'OHM' is not a layer that can be easily combined with the current 'OSM' layer. Large sections of the current data are simply cloned into OHM I'm not referring to OHM; I'm referring to the main OSM

Re: [Talk-GB] UPRN Locations Map

On 04/07/2020 18:24, Lester Caine wrote: The current 'OHM' is not a layer that can be easily combined with the current 'OSM' layer. Large sections of the current data are simply cloned into OHM I'm not referring to OHM; I'm referring to the main OSM map. At least since September 2012, OSM

Re: [Talk-GB] UPRN Locations Map

On 04/07/2020 12:54, David Woolley wrote: At the very least data currently live in on a 'current' view should be automatically filed to an historic layer when it is replaced How does this differ from how OSM already works?  You can already create versions of the map at any point in its

Re: [Talk-GB] UPRN Locations Map

Hi Mark I was wondering in the future if street names etc. could be derived from Mapillary (attribution source=Mapillary) where images exist? Cheers Nick On 04/07/2020 12:02, Mark Goodge wrote: On 04/07/2020 06:16, Kai Michael Poppe - OSM wrote: So, a few months ago I stumbled upon a

Re: [Talk-GB] UPRN Locations Map

Hi Marc, Thanks for the reply. I'll make it my task to find an out of date copyright map that brings the full name, wherever I might find it :) Have a great weekend! Kai Am 4. Juli 2020 13:02:59 MESZ schrieb Mark Goodge : > > >On 04/07/2020 06:16, Kai Michael Poppe - OSM wrote: >> >> So, a

Re: [Talk-GB] UPRN Locations Map

I've tried to match UPRNs to buildings 1:1 in Nottingham and therefore provide an address lookup. Here's the first stab of 35 k objects: https://raw.githubusercontent.com/SK53/osm_uprn/master/ng_osm_uprn_lu.csv Jerry On Sat, 4 Jul 2020 at 12:28, Mark Goodge wrote: > > > On 04/07/2020 12:16,

Re: [Talk-GB] UPRN Locations Map

On 04/07/2020 11:45, Lester Caine wrote: At the very least data currently live in on a 'current' view should be automatically filed to an historic layer when it is replaced How does this differ from how OSM already works? You can already create versions of the map at any point in its

Re: [Talk-GB] UPRN Locations Map

July 4, 2020 12:16:38 PM To: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org Subject: [Talk-GB] UPRN Locations Map On 04/07/2020 08:51, Stephen Colebourne wrote: > I'm not convinced this data should be pulled into OSM. It would add a > lot of clutter that users would be tempted to move around or delete. In >

Re: [Talk-GB] UPRN Locations Map

On 04/07/2020 12:16, Stephen Knox wrote: I don't think there is value in bringing in the points themselves but I think there definitely is value in tagging existing buildings / locations with the UPRN where it is incontrovertible - e.g. a single unit house. This is the vast majority of the

[Talk-GB] UPRN Locations Map

On 04/07/2020 08:51, Stephen Colebourne wrote: >* I'm not convinced this data should be pulled into OSM. It would add a *>* lot of clutter that users would be tempted to move around or delete. In *>* areas like mine where I've added thousands of buildings and addresses *>* from surveys, it would

Re: [Talk-GB] UPRN Locations Map

On 04/07/2020 06:16, Kai Michael Poppe - OSM wrote: So, a few months ago I stumbled upon a note (https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/2158104#map=19/51.49829/-0.32762) that StreetComplete left saying, that the street couldn't be given a name because there's none shown. Back then, I used

Re: [Talk-GB] UPRN Locations Map

On 04/07/2020 08:51, Stephen Colebourne wrote: I'm not convinced this data should be pulled into OSM. It would add a lot of clutter that users would be tempted to move around or delete. In areas like mine where I've added thousands of buildings and addresses from surveys, it would be making

Re: [Talk-GB] UPRN Locations Map

The new Leicester Coronavirus Regulations provide some interesting test data, ostensibly under a Open Government Licence, of 24 pages of postcodes and what are obviously individual properties where postcodes are split by the

Re: [Talk-GB] UPRN Locations Map

>From Wikidata, https://m.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P8399 if you query the UK Flood service with the UPRN you can see more detail on the property On Sat, 4 Jul 2020, 08:52 Stephen Colebourne, wrote: > I'm not convinced this data should be pulled into OSM. It would add a lot > of clutter that

Re: [Talk-GB] UPRN Locations Map

I'm not convinced this data should be pulled into OSM. It would add a lot of clutter that users would be tempted to move around or delete. In areas like mine where I've added thousands of buildings and addresses from surveys, it would be making matters worse not better. It would be a disincentive

Re: [Talk-GB] UPRN Locations Map

On 03.07.2020 12:57, Andy Mabbett wrote: >> https://osm.mathmos.net/addresses/uprn/ (zoom in to level 16 to show the >> data) > > Thank you. Great tool! So, a few months ago I stumbled upon a note (https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/2158104#map=19/51.49829/-0.32762) that StreetComplete left

Re: [Talk-GB] UPRN Locations Map

On 03/07/2020 20:37, I wrote: You could probably also match the names from OS OpenMap using the same principle. That doesn't include USRNs, but the LineStrings are likely to match the Open USRN geometry pretty closely. Either way, it should be possible to assign names to Open USRNs simply

Re: [Talk-GB] UPRN Locations Map

On 03/07/2020 11:23, Tony OSM wrote: I spent part of yesterday navigating the relevant OS and LandRegistry sites and trying to figure out what we can do. We can basically put UPRN and USRN into OSM freely - the license is written to enable that.  OS have also separated out the ability to

Re: [Talk-GB] UPRN Locations Map

The £1000 data rules are at https://osdatahub.os.uk/ and the pricing tab https://osdatahub.os.uk/plans States::: What is the difference between an OS OpenData plan and a Premium plan? *Our OS OpenData plan* ensures you only consume OS OpenData. It locks down calls to our APIs so that

Re: [Talk-GB] UPRN Locations Map

On 03/07/2020 11:23, Tony OSM wrote: There was a reference to £1000 worth of data being made free each month to individual users - can't find out how this works yet. This may allow us as individuals to populate OSM and OSM essentially aggregates the data - rather like postcode data.

Re: [Talk-GB] UPRN Locations Map

On Thu, 2 Jul 2020 at 17:38, Robert Whittaker (OSM lists) wrote: > > I've set up a quick slippy map with the UPRN locations shown: > > https://osm.mathmos.net/addresses/uprn/ (zoom in to level 16 to show the data) Thank you. > The UPRN dataset literally just contains the UPRN number and its >

Re: [Talk-GB] UPRN Locations Map

Thanks Russ - didn't know about https://os.openstreetmap.org/ Free beer or free speech -  I'm looking at. T On 03/07/2020 11:35, Russ Garrett wrote: On Fri, 3 Jul 2020 at 11:24, Tony OSM wrote: There was a reference to £1000 worth of data being made free each month to individual users -

Re: [Talk-GB] UPRN Locations Map

Hi Tony Thanks for that - my thinking have been that when I run my query on a single UPRN, I am retrieving the contents of the page as text on my personal computer and then processing the data for non-commercial use. If I then use that data to create or verify the address on a property

Re: [Talk-GB] UPRN Locations Map

On Fri, 3 Jul 2020 at 11:24, Tony OSM wrote: > There was a reference to £1000 worth of data being made free each month > to individual users - can't find out how this works yet. This may allow > us as individuals to populate OSM and OSM essentially aggregates the > data - rather like postcode

Re: [Talk-GB] UPRN Locations Map

I spent part of yesterday navigating the relevant OS and LandRegistry sites and trying to figure out what we can do. We can basically put UPRN and USRN into OSM freely - the license is written to enable that.  OS have also separated out the ability to match UPRN and USRN to address and street

Re: [Talk-GB] UPRN Locations Map

On Fri, 3 Jul 2020 at 10:26, Nick wrote: > I was wondering about that - I checked on https://osg.scot/portal/ to > check licensing and could not see anything relevant when searching for > individual UPRNs. Even if you ignore the bit about OS copyright, it says "You may retrieve and display

Re: [Talk-GB] UPRN Locations Map

Hi Russ I was wondering about that - I checked on https://osg.scot/portal/ to check licensing and could not see anything relevant when searching for individual UPRNs. This introduces an interesting debate regarding addresses. As far as I know the PostCode is under license from Royal Mail -

Re: [Talk-GB] UPRN Locations Map

Just to emphasise that the output from your script is not suitable for use in OSM - the osg.scot license forbids it. Russ On Thu, 2 Jul 2020 at 23:17, Nick wrote: > > Hi Peter > > re: "I am still not clear how best to use the data available" - I have > written a simple bit of VBA that enables

Re: [Talk-GB] UPRN Locations Map

: [Talk-GB] UPRN Locations Map Hi Nick, Thanks for that. I regret that my VBA and Python are about as good as my Swahili and Martian. (i.e. NOT) Many years ago, I did a bit (sic) of coding in Basic, Fortran and Algol (look them up in the history books) and I used Prolog for my AI project

Re: [Talk-GB] UPRN Locations Map

Hi Nick, Thanks for that. I regret that my VBA and Python are about as good as my Swahili and Martian.  (i.e. NOT) Many years ago, I did a bit (sic) of coding in Basic, Fortran and Algol (look them up in the history books) and I used Prolog for my AI project in 1984, but since then, I've been

Re: [Talk-GB] UPRN Locations Map

As always Robert you have provided a useful tool and analysis. Thanks & cheers Andy -Original Message- From: Robert Whittaker (OSM lists) [mailto:robert.whittaker+...@gmail.com] Sent: 02 July 2020 17:38 To: talk-gb Subject: [Talk-GB] UPRN Locations Map I'm not completely sure if/ho

Re: [Talk-GB] UPRN Locations Map

On Thu, Jul 2, 2020, at 5:38 PM, Robert Whittaker (OSM lists) wrote: > I'm not completely sure if/how we can best make use of the new OS > OpenData (UPRNs, USRNs and related links) in OpenStreetMap, but as a > first step I've set up a quick slippy map with the UPRN locations > shown... > Thanks

Re: [Talk-GB] UPRN Locations Map

/online-applications/propertyDetails.do?keyVal=JQS696QB03B01=summary Ed Get Outlook for Android<https://aka.ms/ghei36> From: Robert Whittaker (OSM lists) Sent: Thursday, July 2, 2020 5:38:03 PM To: talk-gb Subject: [Talk-GB] UPRN Locations Map I'm not completely su

Re: [Talk-GB] UPRN Locations Map

Hi Peter re: "I am still not clear how best to use the data available" - I have written a simple bit of VBA that enables address data to be retrieved for a given UPRN (I attach the VBA used in a form for Excel) - this only works for Scotland but may be available elsewhere. Using the concept

Re: [Talk-GB] UPRN Locations Map

On 2020-07-02 19:52, SK53 wrote: I've also had a quick look, and your hints are quite useful. Very much agreed, thanks Robert. One thing I've noticed is UPRNs which I suspect are for building shells. So there's a house which has recently been converted into student housing with a hair

Re: [Talk-GB] UPRN Locations Map

On 02/07/2020 19:52, SK53 wrote: Post boxes, substations, patches of grass (I presume), and bus stops are things I've spotted. The oddity is a great forest of UPRNs over a hospital building . They may possibly be multiple postal

Re: [Talk-GB] UPRN Locations Map

On 02/07/2020 18:38, Peter Neale via Talk-GB wrote: Hi Robert, Many thanks for producing that map. I was able to look at my street and see a blue pin in each of the building outlines that I had mapped from aerial imagery, so that gave me a warm, smug feeling :) I too noticed some

Re: [Talk-GB] UPRN Locations Map

I've also had a quick look, and your hints are quite useful. One thing I've noticed is UPRNs which I suspect are for building shells. So there's a house which has recently been converted into student housing with a hair transplant surgery on the ground floor. This has 3 UPRNs. The next property

Re: [Talk-GB] UPRN Locations Map

Hi Robert, Many thanks for producing that map. I was able to look at my street and see a blue pin in each of the building outlines that I had mapped from aerial imagery, so that gave me a warm, smug feeling :) I too noticed some not-yet-there properties in a nearby development that had UPRNs

[Talk-GB] UPRN Locations Map

I'm not completely sure if/how we can best make use of the new OS OpenData (UPRNs, USRNs and related links) in OpenStreetMap, but as a first step I've set up a quick slippy map with the UPRN locations shown: https://osm.mathmos.net/addresses/uprn/ (zoom in to level 16 to show the data) The UPRN