Might be cool to set up a Saturday mapping party and social combined
somewhere easy to reach and needing some mapping between London and
Birmingham. We could thrash out the bones of a UK chapter and see who's
interested in working on it over a beer or two.
Anyone want to look and suggest a
We had a discussion about this point during the Kidderminster mapping
party
on Saturday. Our decision (relating to the Black Country in our case) was
that we would use OS OpenData StreetView, especially in partly mapped
areas,
but we would record some info on the wiki for each area covered so
Hello everyone,
Just a reminder that the Three Counties mapping party is taking place this
Saturday 17th April at Haslemere, Surrey meeting 9.30am in the Costa
Coffee on Haslemere High Street.
Background: Surrey, West Sussex and Hampshire is increasingly well mapped
in OpenStreetMap with good
As was the case last year to some degree, the venue of SOTM has decided my
holiday plans for me this year and I'm thinking of staying on for about a week
to see more of Catalonia. I'm quite keen to see the mountain scenery of the
Pyrenees and to do some walking, and looking at the cycle map,
Despite being disappointed at the lack of public right of way/field boundary
info in the OS releases, I have to admit that VectorMap District does *look*
very nice, kind of like Landranger minus contours and footpaths.
So I'm wondering, would it be possible to create maps which combine the
Google, Waze and OSMF have partnered on a common initiative to explore
crowd-sourced mapping solutions. Yes, this is real. See:
www.closedstreetmap.org
for the full press release. Contact me if you want to be involved
It's (well) after 12:00 here and in most of the world! ;-)
Does that mean there's nothing at all for countryside users in the OS
data being released? Or does Meridian have it?
Sorry to follow up my own post - it would appear not.
A real shame about the lack of countryside data in this free OS dataset.
The Meridian data doesn't really contain anything
Hi Andy,
I'm not sure the OS has reliable footpath data for the countryside
anyway.
Last time I chatted with the OS about this they were interested in
whether
OSM could work with them to update rural ROW footpaths because they don't
survey them anymore.
Really? - that's interesting. Do you
Just a quick follow up: apologies for the downtime overnight, when
changing around the locations of files on the server to prepare for
committing to SVN, I messed up one or two paths. Anyway it should work
again now.
Nick
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Hi,
(*posted to talk in case of interest, but all follow ups will be on the
Photos list*)
Having been, I have to admit, just a little impressed with the current
state of Google Street View in the UK (i.e. it's now complete), my
interest in developing StreetView for footpaths has been
Nice,
Will the source code be available in one of the svn repositories?
Yes, I've just added it (and the whole of Freemap) to the OSM SVN
repository
at
sites/www.free-map.org.uk/otv/
It is intended to gather panoramas by the way. Thanks for the suggestions.
Nick
This is certainly a nice project and a challenge to
do, but it would take out the fun of actually
walking /trailing if you are not surprised anymore
by the lovely view around that corner.
Though seeing the view for real is a bit different than seeing it on the
internet! ;-)
Also there are other
To follow on from my earlier email, I'd like to now confirm the date of
the Three Counties mini mapping party (Haslemere, Surrey) as Saturday
April 17th. Aim will be to complete a number of the villages and small
towns in the Haslemere area.
Details on the wiki at
Hello everyone,
Would like to propose a mini mapping party for Sat April 17th to cover
the Surrey/W Sussex/Hampshire borderlands. This area is generally well
mapped but there are a number of missing streets in several of the
villages / small towns in the area - e.g. Hindhead, Midhurst, Witley,
I wouldn?t take PRoW refs from any source unless I was completely
confident that it?s compatible with OSM?s license
Sorry, meant to raise this point in my last reply.
Would any source also include footpath signs with the number on? This is
common practice on the Isle of Wight, and I myself
Walking isn't just about long-distance stuff.
Being able to say: x is my starting point and I have [10|30|60mins|...]
and I am [slow as a snail|average|running from mad mappers], please take
me on a circular route that avoids busy roads, goes through nice parks,
maybe goes to places people
(PS I used the S.O.S (Spawn of Satan) tag 'path' , so I'm not sure
how
many of my trails will work with other stylesheets)
path isn't Spawn of Satan! ;-)
What is Spawn of Satan, here in the UK at least, is foot=yes. ;-) This
is completely ambiguous, either use designated for a designated
Hello everyone,
Thanks for the responses on this. What I would like to do this year is
really try to bring together everyone on the list who is interested in
developing OSM software (both web and mobile) for walkers (hikers) so that
we can make a good go of exchanging ideas and developing
Hello everyone,
After a year or so of server memory issues causing problems with Freemap
(www.free-map.org.uk; currently maps are temporarily unavailable as I'm
testing one or two things; will be available from later this evening) I'm
aiming to re-vamp the site this year to use tiles generated
Anyone want to arrange something an April? hint hint
;-)
Yes, I can still do but due to likely work pressure it will now have to be
April 10/11 or 17/18 - I'm probably going to have to work until about
1pm-2pm on the weekend of 24/25 and May 1/2/3.
I'll see how Haslemere's doing and if it
No idea whether c-class road references are nationally unique. It seems
both plausible and implausible at the same time.
The C-numbers seem to low (1000) for them to be national.
You'd probably end up with 6-figure C roads if they were nationally
numbered...
Also Kent isn't in region 3 for
When I originally signed up I found the whole thing a tad daunting and
overwhelming originally, nothing was very clear about what it was I
was supposed to be doing, beyond fixing simple mistakes, or how to use
GPS traces to enter data that wasn't available from imagery.
I'd just like to make a
Firstly thanks for the replies regarding a tile generator using the Mapnik
OSM plugin - looks like there's a little bit of interest so I might start
work on it.
The other thing I have in mind to do is a POI collector for Android
devices. I seem to remember there being an interest in this
Not sure if talk's the best place for this, rather than dev, but I would
guess so as it doesn't relate to OSM development itself.
Anyway, some time ago I developed the OSM plugin for Mapnik, but due to
other things haven't worked on it for a while. However I always thought
that it would be
Do people think this is a good idea? It's one of several possibilities
that I'd like to work on, though I'd probably only do so if there's
sufficient interest and/or I can't resolve the memory issues on my own
site in other ways.
Sorry to follow up my own post - but I forgot to say, this would
The residential areas and suburbs of *any* town aren't places you'd
normally go unless you had to, but we do to map them. Mapping Berry Hill
or Ladybrook wouldn't be any different to mapping a suburb in any other
town in the UK.
To be fair it can be quite pleasant mapping the nicer residential
Hi Andy,
Had a couple in mind, firstly a mini-party for Haslemere (surrey) which is
partly complete but not totally.
I could also do Andover from the priority list as it's quite local to me.
Thirdly I'd like to do a larger-scale countryside event in the summer down
here in the south somewhere,
Not sure whether this is vandalism or just a bit of 'fun' (I suspect
the latter). I would go through and just remove all the names but I
don't have sufficient local knowledge to determine which are genuine (I
know The Devil's Highway is right, and I'm pretty sure that Poo Alley is
wrong, but
Hello everyone,
I'm having problems loading in a slab of OSM data for the Oxford/Cotswolds area
for the UK extract for 19/12/09 downloaded from geofabrik.de.
osm2pgsql stops with the error Error allocating ways (no other info is
produced)
The relevant file is
Perhaps that's southern Spain in the Sunny Florida sense, all of it
being a tad southern.
Now I'm getting more confused about your abilities in geography
All of those locations are North
North compared to where? ;-)
Nick
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talk mailing list
Technical skills and inclination are not enough. You also need
considerable server side muscle to create a dedicated map.
You don't *necessarily* need this if you're prepared to only update your
map once a week (which, it should be said, is still much, much more
frequently than the OS and
The standards for acceptance by the casual user have grown enourmously.
A year ago, the main maps were re-rendered once a week and that was
cool. Now they are updated daily/minutely and somehow people expect that
from _every_ map. Weekly updates are now considered lame. And less than
full
All of Spain is further north than Tennessee, the US state where I live.
Tennessee is on about the same latitude as Algeria.
That's another example of the anticlockwise axis tilt of perceptions of
places versus where they actually are.
I've noticed that several places in the world are tilted
OK, so if we tilt Spain enough then Girona is in southern Spain. Cool...
I don't think anyone will sniff at the 30C average max for Girona in July
though (source: Wikipedia) :-)
Nick
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talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
Hmm, no one thought of registering Open Maps as a trademark as well
as
OpenStreetMap?
What makes you think that if OpenStreetMap is a term deemed to general
to work as a trademark, Open Maps would somehow work?
In any case, we are supposed to be open. Trying to trademark names merely
A call to get only points is certainly something we could add and it
would certainly save quite a bit of work on the server over the normal
map call and hence hopefully speed things up.
What would be really good, I think, to avoid conflicts is to add some API
code which refuses to add a POI if
It's both, a rendering issue when the names are duplicated and a
mapping issue about representing the turn restrictions. Note that It's
a very old definition in OSM to say that we duplicate the ways when
there is a physical division between the two ways (it's physically
impossible to cross the
I'm doing a lot of mapping of pedestrian and bike paths around my
area, and am having trouble deciding when to use path, when footway,
and when cycleway. I'm particularly troubled by the way Potlatch
describes path as unofficial path - making it sound like an
unpaved line of footprints carved
Should be this:
or should I put in a node e and tag that with barrier = stile:
c
|
|
a---e-b
|
|
d
or, better
c
.
.
.
a..e.b
.
d
because the path has to actually join the road. b is the node
Does anyone from Surrey (and Hants, Sussex or Berks) fancy a social in
Guildford during the first week in December? I'm thinking of Wednesday
2nd or Thursday 3rd.
Yes, definitely.
Nick
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Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
Hello everyone,
A reminder that the Fareham mapping party takes place tomorrow meeting
Fareham station 10am.
See
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Fareham_Mapping_Party
for more details.
The weather's maybe a bit iffy in the morning, but hopefully will clear by
12.00 giving a few
Hello Andy,
Couple of comments on that. Quite a lot of PROW within the urban
sprawl.
These being ways that have had to be adjusted and realigned when
housing
development extended, but at least were maintained as a route.
True, though perhaps these aren't so important to show as most people
Hello everyone,
Following on from the unintentional rights-of-way coverage map generated
by zooming out from the OSM/First Edition mashup that I mentioned the
other day, I've now done a script to generate a real one.
It's available at
http://www.free-map.org.uk/freemap/stats/statsmap.php
Hello Andy,
Couple of comments on that. Quite a lot of PROW within the urban sprawl.
These being ways that have had to be adjusted and realigned when housing
development extended, but at least were maintained as a route.
True, though perhaps these aren't so important to show as most people
It's a bit more sophisticated than that; see the URL for what I consider
a right of way. Note that I tried a version with highway=footway,foot=yes
added in, and got the same sort of pattern.
Nick
In fact, it's possible to add highway=footway, foot=yes to the definition
of a right of way by
Hello everyone,
Brief details of the Fareham mapping event are now available on the wiki
at
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Fareham_Mapping_Party
Fareham is one of the few south Hampshire towns with a relatively small
number of street names, so come along and finish the job! There
An unintended consequence of the First Edition/OSM mashup (see earlier
post) is that I have an image of rights of way coverage of the UK in OSM.
See
http://www.free-map.org.uk/images/tiles2/firsted/5/15/10.png
Clearly shows we need more countryside mappers in the east, southwest and
Wales!
Hello everyone,
After a long period of being down, largely due to being too busy with
other things, the Freemap blog, which focuses on UK countryside mapping
and my own development projects in this area, is now up again at:
http://www.free-map.org.uk/wordpress/
If you're following the Footnav
Hello everyone,
After a long hiatus in mapping parties in the south of England, I'd like
to announce one on Sunday November 1st in Fareham, Hants, near Portsmouth.
This is being partly run as an OSM taster session with the local branch of
the British Computer Society, though experienced OSMers
Hello everyone,
TBH I thought I had announced this in June but a quick search of the
mailing lists suggest I didn't, must have been too distracted with
organising my holiday.
Anyway, an updated version (3) of Freemap Mobile, a Java ME based mobile
mapping application orientated towards
TBH I thought I had announced this in June but a quick search of the
mailing lists suggest I didn't, must have been too distracted with
organising my holiday.
Anyway, an updated version (3) of Freemap Mobile, a Java ME based mobile
mapping application orientated towards countryside users is
TBH I thought I had announced this in June but a quick search of the
mailing lists suggest I didn't, must have been too distracted with
organising my holiday.
Anyway, an updated version (3) of Freemap Mobile, a Java ME based mobile
mapping application orientated towards countryside users is
A few updates to footnav, the 3D OSM visualisation tool aimed at
countryside (and eventually mobile, in the field) use.
The main development is that it will now read in OSM data and overlay it
on the SRTM data, using bilinear interpolation. This mostly works, but
there are issues to do with
The downside of J2ME (at least in the UK, where it rains a lot) is that
the phones that it runs on tend not to be waterproof. There are various
cases available, but they're not cheap. Maybe a complementary approach
would be to have something that could work with GPX file from a handheld
GPS
And as I said before I am 99.9% certain that this is not breach of
copyright in the UK either. As I said before this is identical to the case
where someone plans a route using an atlas then uploads their traces to
OSM, using their own observations to tag the roads, not the atlas.
Hello everyone,
With all the talk of countryside surveying issues recently (placement of
hedges etc) I'm wondering if it would be a good idea to develop some sort
of mobile countryside surveying tool where people could note down, in the
field, the placement of hedges relative to paths and the
Why JavaME exactly?
It's kind of getting long in the tooth compared to JVMs running on
modern smart phones
Not to mention smart phones usually have a soft or hard keyboard,
rather than twiddling about with 12 keys to type things out
To try and support as many as possible - Qt is another
This sounds interesting, but could you describe a bit more what you had
in mind? I would particularly be interested to know how it would differ
to the already existing mobile tools and if it is not possible to add
this functionality to them, given that you can do a fair amount with
them
Lawds, I wish the English could speak English. Who decided it would
be a good idea to fork off American into a whole 'nother language?
Well if it's any consolation I seem to have learnt the American meaning of
public domain before any English meaning ;-)
Nick
Problem is that you create expectations that are difficult to fulfil by
hobbyists with the haphazard setup that we have. If you want a reliable
tile server, you need a proper computing centre with fallback hardware
and all that, and admins paid for being woken up at 3am if something
goes
Incidentally, as well as the possible OS contamination, the Council will
itself have database and content copyright in the data, so explicit
permission would be needed from them to incorporate and release it under
our CCBySA license. In obtaining that permission you could ask them to
assert
Bear in mind that public domain meaning free of copyright is a US
term.
The traditional UK meaning is quite different.
In the UK, if you say the map is now in the public domain, that means
that
the map is now available to the public - i.e. it's not solely an internal
publication. It does not
I believe Andy R is. Field boundaries would also be a great help in the
3D
navigation stuff I'm working on.
I think most people who map the countryside do map gates and stiles
btw.
Nick
We do,
I know, because I'm one of them ;-)
but sometimes that's not quite enough. I had a path that
You bring up a point that I think needs expanding on for clarification.
I decide where I'm going to go for a walk by looking at a combination of
my OS and OSM maps.
I look for /indications /of rights of way on my OS map. Initially this
is the only evidence I have.
If I see it's not indicated in
Hi Mike,
OS one-inch (or 1:50k) mapping does not show field boundaries. But is
anyone working on out-of-copyright 1:25k (or larger scale) mapping?
Mike Harris
I believe Andy R is. Field boundaries would also be a great help in the 3D
navigation stuff I'm working on.
I think most people who
[snip mostly PL2303 recommendations]
Thanks for the replies on this.
My converter is a PL2303 based one, the kernel module detects it when it's
plugged in, but... I can't get data out of it using gpsbabel, it reports
Timeout - no data read or similar.
Maybe I just got a cheap-and-nasty
Hello everyone,
I have a MacBook Pro dual-booting Mac OS X 10.5 and Linux (Ubuntu 9.04,
kernel 2.6.28). Can use it for most things I need to do but the one thing
lacking is a serial port. I got hold of a USB Serial converter and drivers
but it didn't work well, sometimes it read data,
I'm glad to see that this project is moving on and especially that
it's using Qt :) However, I get a compile error with revision 2:
Me too.
In SRTM.h there is:
#include GL.h
But in maths.h I see this instead:
#ifdef __APPLE__
#include gl.h
#else
#include GL/gl.h
#endif
Quite
We seem unable to contact Liam123 via normal channels. This means we
have to think of other ways of contacting members who continually put
mistakes into the dataset.
Is it not possible to put a flag on his account, so when he logs in he
is told what he has been doing and asked to explain himself?
Hello everyone,
A quick update on the Footnav project, which I've hinted at once or twice
on here. Footnav aims to be a 3D mobile navigation application for
countryside users e.g. hikers, off road cyclists, showing OSM data (paths,
3D models of stiles, gates etc, and hills using SRTM data).
How do you then tag roads that are smaller than unclassified, are
narrower or have lesser importance?
If they're a residential street, residential.
If they're a service road (drive, road into industrial estate), service.
All other minor roads would be unclassified. These could be country lanes
Hello Matt,
Hello everyone,
A quick update on the Footnav project, which I've hinted at once or
twice
on here. Footnav aims to be a 3D mobile navigation application for
countryside users e.g. hikers, off road cyclists, showing OSM data
(paths,
3D models of stiles, gates etc, and hills
Hi,
My understanding is that rural roads (country lanes as they are called
in the UK) should be highway=unclassified. However if there is a small
housing estate or residential road in a village, it should be
highway=residential.
Cue long debate on this ;-)
Nick
Valent Turkovic
To be clear, how would you map this street that goes from Podravlje:
http://bit.ly/DesFh
That looks like an unclassified to me. These sorts of things are common in
the UK: dead-end rural roads which have footpaths or bridleways coming off
the end.
Nick
My understanding was that Unclassified roads went somewhere and did
not have a road number but were not up to Tertiary Standard (What ever
that means) where as Residential Streets did not go anywhere and only
had houses on them. bit like a living_street but where cars have
priority really.
Peter.
I suppose this brings up all the stuff about path tagging again, but, how
do people in general tag vague, ill-defined countryside paths?
The sort of things I'm talking about are either very narrow and
occasionally hard to follow paths through woods, or, firebreaks in forests
where there is
here, whatever the local council decides to put up
often reflective silverish background, black letters
may be black on yellow
may be white on blue
may be green on white
Where's here?
The UK seems to be rather variable, black on white is most common but I've
seen white on green, white on black,
My main comment was that the proposal didn't 'sit' well with the
government regional structures.
I do have to make the comment though that the government regional
structures are rather arbitrary and do not reflect real cultural regions.
Where I am in Southampton, I'm supposedly in the same
What is the point of local chapters in England? We don't have language
conversion issues, currency issues or time zone issues.
Cheers, Chris
One need would be to organise and coordinate local mapping. For instance,
in my area (the Solent area or central southern England for want of a
better
Also, the definitive map/statement is not even definitive! The
Countryside and Rights of Way Act 2000 set a cut off date of 2026 for
all rights of way to be recorded on definitive statements or be lost,
Going off the OSM subject, but: would presence on an NPE map as a black
dashed line but
Chris Hill chillly...@yahoo.co.uk
18/08/2009 17:08
To
Nick Whitelegg nick.whitel...@solent.ac.uk
cc
talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
Subject
Re: [Talk-GB] English chapter
Nick Whitelegg wrote:
What is the point of local chapters in England? We don't have
language
conversion issues
Whiteleggnick.whitel...@solent.ac.uk wrote:
In the UK I would tag such a path as
foot=designated;bicycle=permissive;
and pragmatically highway=footway for the moment, using the
generally-accepted definition of footway as urban surfaced path
(though would prefer highway=path; surface=paved)
... but, rightly or wrongly, I do not think I am alone in using
highway=footway for all paths intended primarily for pedestrians whether
urban or rural, designated or not, designation=anything - the only real
exception I make is (mostly) in rural areas where the path is clearly
informal and of
Following on from this, am I correct in assuming that the only
definitive source of mapping information about public rights of way is
the OS? It seems ludicrous that *public* rights of way are effectively
copyrighted in this manner. I suppose it's analagous to the issue with
council boundaries.
So a public footpath which the council has converted into a cycleway
(part of a future cycle network if the council ever commit funds to
complete their decade old plan) which is segregated in some sections and
unsegregated in others is possibly a footway with bicycle=permissive?
I think I?ve
Martin Koppenhoefer schrieb:
highway=footway (not suitable)
bicycle=dedicated (signed)
A footway for cycling is not a valid combination to me.
why not? In Germany: sign footway + additional sign: Fahrräder frei
That's yes, not designated.
Silly question, maybe: but, what does yes actually
I would prefer that designated does not infer exclusively
designated, so that it's possible to have bicycle=designated as well
as foot=designated on a shared pathway (signed with a picture of a
person and a picture of a bicycle).
Agree here. UK bridleways for instance should have foot=designated;
So hopefully you can see where I'm going with this. I want to represent
ways with a legitimate ?foot=yes? tag. In the absence of signposts, in
practice the guide for UK walkers is the OS map, but if I walk a route
which I believe follows the OS map for the purposes of a GPS trace, is
this not
And just a quick reminder that the NPE edition map is available as on
overlay in both JOSM and Potlatch editors
David
Caution is needed here though. I have an NPE map of the local area which I
sometimes use to locate possible rights of way in an area with which I am
unfamiliar. In about 80%
This is a rather lenient definition that is unsuitable to depict the
German use case. That is exactly the reason for the confusion we are
having. If something is tagged as a cycleway and I am planning to walk
on foot, I need to know whether it is an unsigned way assumed to be
suitable for
In my opinion, suitability is a whole new topic that should'nt be
represented by *mode_of_transport*=yes/no, as it's highly subjective.
yes/no should solely describe the legal status.
Agreed. One can use the surface tag to do this together with SAC_scale
etc (with which I'm not 100% familiar but
[waymarked paths in Schwarzwald, Germany]
If you use designated for the waymarked ways without legal impact, then
you need yet another tag (e.g. official) for the real cycleways with
roadsigns and legal impact.
Thanks! In that case I'll just use permissive. Are there any
Germany-specific tags
The highway=footway is IMHO an alias for the more complex highway=path
foot=yes surface=paved etc. construction. I think aliases are
perfectly legitimate constructs when dealing with very common
situations, and furthermore, much easier for newbies to remember and
deal with.
Perhaps, but I
Hello Tom,
So for example Nick Whitelegg and Martin Simon might lead a group to work
out how best to tag paths of all kinds. If their proposal was accepted at
SOTM 2010, somebody would create a map highlighting all the ways that
probably need to be corrected and a massive effort to bring things
Roy Wallace waldo000...@gmail.com
Sent by: talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org
10/08/2009 23:2
To
Martin Simon grenzde...@gmail.com
cc
talk talk@openstreetmap.org
Subject
Re: [OSM-talk] Proliferation of path vs. footway
On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 8:52 PM, Martin Simongrenzde...@gmail.com wrote:
Hello everyone,
Is the plan for tomorrow (Friday) still to meet here?
http://www.stateofthemap.org/2009/07/06/pre-conference-drinks-nieuwmarkt/
Will be unable to read the list from approx 07:30 BST tomorrow. Can get
the internet on my phone but obviously in NL it's going to be rather
Hello everyone,
I'm arriving (all being well!) in Amsterdam Friday evening at either 17:03
or 18:03, depending on train connections from London. Are there any plans
for any people / groups to look round the city on Friday evening? My hotel
is fairly central I think so should be ready by 18:00
Hello Mike,
Just catching up on my talk-GB email and was looking at Nick's nice new
free-map. Ilkley Moor is on, so it is clearly Ideologically Sound.
:-)
Thanks Nick.
The Yorkshire moors look very empty though. There is a whole wealth of
detail that can be added from NPE and local
When the A3 bypass[0] was constructed the route crossed several existing
rights of way. Rather than building bridges or underpasses it appears
that the planners struck on the novel idea of asking pedestrians to walk
across four lanes of heavy traffic moving at 70-80 mph.
I'd like to include these
Quick update on Freemap - a countryside orientated OSM renderer covering
England and Wales
Nick Whitelegg/FT/Solent
09/06/2009 13:42
To
talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
cc
Subject
Freemap (OSM for walkers) - increased coverage
Hello everyone,
Quick update on Freemap - a countryside
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