Re: [talk-ph] adding place reference to a POI
At 10:43 AM 21/05/2009, maning sambale wrote: Hi, Some GPS/data contributor (not osm contributor), suggested I add place reference to POI like in the name tag Jollibee (Morato) or Jollibee-Morato something. Adding this should allow referencing of POI names in GPS units. However, we have an is_in tag in OSM. I feel it's the gps map compiler (mkgmap) who should do the work for this. Any ideas? I agree. Me, I strictly name stores according to what the store itself says in its sign. It should not be difficult to write code to look at the is_in tag or addr:street tag and add it to the name. Mike ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [talk-ph] 1st OpenStreetMap Philippines Mapping Party Success!
Here's my post-party blog report http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/2009/05/21/post-party-report-tagaytay-osm-ph-mapping/ And since the party was so last week, where do we go next? On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 12:49 PM, Eugene Alvin Villar sea...@gmail.com wrote: Napansin ninyo ba, ambilis mag-update ng Mapnik layer! Talo pa ang OSMARender (t...@h). I just entered some roads awhile ago and it's now rendered in OSM! On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 9:41 AM, Ed Garcia eppgar...@gmail.com wrote: Very nice work Eugene! Bow ako. Yes, I believe there are no other maps out there yet that has such detail of Picnic Grove. Was nice to meet you in person. ed On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 9:18 AM, Eugene Alvin Villar sea...@gmail.com wrote: Here's the initial mapping for Tagaytay Picnic Grove: http://openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/1226711 I don't think there's any other online map out there (and maybe even a paper-based map) that shows such details. :-) On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 12:13 PM, Eugene Alvin Villar sea...@gmail.com wrote: I had fun guys! And it was really nice finally meeting the faces behind the edits. Hehehe. I can't count the number of times I did the mane obra during the mapping. :-P On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 12:34 AM, Andre Marcelo-Tanner an...@enthropia.com wrote: Hi all, I want to congratulate everyone on a job well done today as we went around Tagaytay and mapped the place out. It was a pleasure meeting all of you: Maning, Eugene, Ian, Rally, Neil, Ed, and the photographer guy from the Inquirer whose name I forgot (sorry!) and the family members who were there. It was fun, exciting, and also a great learning experience. This is only the beginning and I know we'll be able to do more events to bring OSM Philippines to a wider audience and map more of the Philippines than anyone else could have imagined. Best Regards, Andre P.S. Pa post ng pics sa Facebook or somewhere :) ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph -- http://vaes9.codedgraphic.com -- http://vaes9.codedgraphic.com ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph -- website administrator: - www.waypoints.ph - reeflife.eppgarcia.com PADI Divemaster #491048 -- http://vaes9.codedgraphic.com ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph -- cheers, maning -- Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [talk-ph] adding place reference to a POI
I was thinking of having a branch=* tag for these things. That way, the tools/renderers can have freedom to use this info however they want (add them in parentheses, use smaller fonts, etc.). Practically every company that has branches have names for their branches. It's not necessarily the city/district/street they are on. On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 6:01 PM, Mike Collinson m...@ayeltd.biz wrote: At 10:43 AM 21/05/2009, maning sambale wrote: Hi, Some GPS/data contributor (not osm contributor), suggested I add place reference to POI like in the name tag Jollibee (Morato) or Jollibee-Morato something. Adding this should allow referencing of POI names in GPS units. However, we have an is_in tag in OSM. I feel it's the gps map compiler (mkgmap) who should do the work for this. Any ideas? I agree. Me, I strictly name stores according to what the store itself says in its sign. It should not be difficult to write code to look at the is_in tag or addr:street tag and add it to the name. Mike ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph -- http://vaes9.codedgraphic.com ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [talk-ph] 1st OpenStreetMap Philippines Mapping Party
Thanks On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 12:10 PM, Andre Marcelo-Tanner an...@enthropia.com wrote: Awesome post, will spread the word. Would be cool too if the video had some quick music :) Sorry, no time right now. The render is just a python script. I can send the file for anyone who wants to do more pimping or you can download via flickr (pwede ata) Do others have pictures, please post :) Yes please do. ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph -- cheers, maning -- Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [talk-ph] 1st OpenStreetMap Philippines Mapping Party Success!
Yup, we use the GT-31 GPS (other GPS unit will do as long as it sends raw NMEA data). You can use two laptop and 1 GPS unit the laptop where the GPS is connected can share the GPS data to the other laptop using ad-hoc connection (not road tested yet). You will now have a GPS server for the other laptop (all running on Ubuntu 9.04) using the tangoGPS. Nice. Here's the video, its a bit shaky http://www.flickr.com/photos/37115...@n06/3553501790/ Yes we did the Rally style mapping its effective and efficient. The dry run seems good next the mapping party. murlwe -Original Message- From: maning sambale [emmanuel.samb...@gmail.com] Sent: 5/22/2009 11:12:37 AM To: talk-ph@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [talk-ph] 1st OpenStreetMap Philippines Mapping Party Success! Did I get you right? TangoGPS on a laptop hooked to the GT-31 (gpstogo unit)? From the screenshot it shows the mapnik layer. Nice! Mught be what ronny is looking for. May I suggest you add what Rally does by encoding which side of the street the POI is located (left or right based on the driving direction). On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 12:42 AM, Marloue Pidor mur...@mail2engineer.com wrote: We just had a dry run for our plans here for a mapping party (selos talaga kami). We use tangoGPS (http://www.flickr.com/photos/37115...@n06/3551186301/) for mapping and POI insertion interfacing GPStogo. George (smackcode) will be releasing an application specifically for OSM mapping. And George will have another talk for OSM applications (http://www.ideacampdavao.com/). murlwe -Original Message- From: maning sambale [emmanuel.samb...@gmail.com] Sent: 5/21/2009 11:07:52 PM To: talk-ph@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [talk-ph] 1st OpenStreetMap Philippines Mapping Party Success! Here's my post-party blog report http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/2009/05/21/post-party-report-tagaytay-o sm-ph-mapping/ And since the party was so last week, where do we go next? On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 12:49 PM, Eugene Alvin Villar sea...@gmail.com wrote: Napansin ninyo ba, ambilis mag-update ng Mapnik layer! Talo pa ang OSMARender (t...@h). I just entered some roads awhile ago and it's now rendered in OSM! On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 9:41 AM, Ed Garcia eppgar...@gmail.com wrote: Very nice work Eugene! Bow ako. Yes, I believe there are no other maps out there yet that has such detail of Picnic Grove. Was nice to meet you in person. ed On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 9:18 AM, Eugene Alvin Villar sea...@gmail.com wrote: Here's the initial mapping for Tagaytay Picnic Grove: http://openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/1226711 I don't think there's any other online map out there (and maybe even a paper-based map) that shows such details. :-) On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 12:13 PM, Eugene Alvin Villar sea...@gmail.com wrote: I had fun guys! And it was really nice finally meeting the faces behind the edits. Hehehe. I can't count the number of times I did the mane obra during the mapping. :-P On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 12:34 AM, Andre Marcelo-Tanner an...@enthropia.com wrote: Hi all, I want to congratulate everyone on a job well done today as we went around Tagaytay and mapped the place out. It was a pleasure meeting all of you: Maning, Eugene, Ian, Rally, Neil, Ed, and the photographer guy from the Inquirer whose name I forgot (sorry!) and the family members who were there. It was fun, exciting, and also a great learning experience. This is only the beginning and I know we'll be able to do more events to bring OSM Philippines to a wider audience and map more of the Philippines than anyone else could have imagined. Best Regards, Andre P.S. Pa post ng pics sa Facebook or somewhere :) ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph -- http://vaes9.codedgraphic.com -- http://vaes9.codedgraphic.com ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph -- website administrator: - www.waypoints.ph - reeflife.eppgarcia.com PADI Divemaster #491048 -- http://vaes9.codedgraphic.com ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph -- cheers, maning -- Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph ___ Get the Free email that has everyone talking at http://www.mail2world.com Unlimited Email Storage - POP3 - Calendar - SMS - Translator -
Re: [OSM-talk] zones for motorway/in town/outof town?
( CHANGE THE EMAIL ADDRESS :( These odd sites that don't return list posts to the list ARE a pain! ) Guenther Meyer wrote: Am Wednesday 20 May 2009 schrieb Greg Troxel: we in germany have the three base zones I mentioned, but it's no problem tom extend these for countries with more basic settings... For routing purposes, the speed for each segment of a route is important, and for speed I am sure that the ideal situation is that ALL highway segments have their speeds assigned ( ADDING VARIABLE for those motorway flyover routes which pass over and under the lower speed local roads and have traffic flow management ) While a discussion on ADDING the speed zones applied by other means is possibly useful, having to process that data to provide all of the options for the routing software seems pointless to me, and so the roads within those areas SHOULD simply have their maxspeed set - even if that is applied by some blanket area rule initially. Things like residential - with a lower limit, or school zone which applies a lower limit during certain hours and internal 'bypasses' with different speeds all along them all need to be set manually on the route, so do we really need another level of complexity when simply adding the speed to each road, and segmenting the road correctly at a speed change sign, will get around ALL the problems and also help people writing route finding software to identify the minimum time each section will take. People will claim that the application of area information via SQL queries on a database is fast, but it still takes a lot more processing power than doing the exercise once and being able to simply search for routes from a list of highway segments? So while discussing HOW the default speed for roads are calculated is important, can we not simply apply that speed without adding another layer of complexity? A default of the speed of a previous road section should be all that is needed where a maxspeed is not defined rather than THEN having to go to check some higher level rule. -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk// Firebird - http://www.firebirdsql.org/index.php ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] zones for motorway/in town/outof town?
So as long as exception roads have speed tags, what's the problem? None as far as I can see, but by the time you've checked every road in the zone to see whether it is an exception, and presumably tagged it as checked so other mappers know it has been checked so they don't also need to go and check, you may as well tag it with the maxspeed. Ed ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] zones for motorway/in town/outof town?
Am Thursday 21 May 2009 schrieb Lester Caine: For routing purposes, the speed for each segment of a route is important, and for speed I am sure that the ideal situation is that ALL highway segments have their speeds assigned ( ADDING VARIABLE for those motorway flyover routes which pass over and under the lower speed local roads and have traffic flow management ) I would propose exactly that, but with zone:traffic, not with maxspeed. why? when the maxspeed is tagged directly, I would assume that the limit is signposted. when I find a zone:traffic-tag and a different maxspeed-tag on the same way, I would assume that the way lies in that zone, but is has an explicitly signposted different limit, which then would be used in a routing application. that would be an easy understandable and defined way of tagging and using those tags. While a discussion on ADDING the speed zones applied by other means is possibly useful, having to process that data to provide all of the options for the routing software seems pointless to me, and so the roads within those areas SHOULD simply have their maxspeed set - even if that is applied by some blanket area rule initially. right, but the maxspeed should be derived from the zone-tag. if you use only the maxspeed-tag, than you can't distinguish, if the limit comes from a traffic sign or the zone/type of street... So while discussing HOW the default speed for roads are calculated is important, can we not simply apply that speed without adding another layer of complexity? I wouldn't do that, because it's a derived value depending on a lot of things like road type, time of day, weekday, construction sites, ... ok, you might add this value additionally with a special tag, to give a hint to routing applications. but there are more applications than just routing, to which that data may be useless. on the other hand the speed limits are defined values (at least in every country I have been so far...). signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Fwd: Re: zones for motorway/in town/outof town?]
Am Thursday 21 May 2009 schrieb Radomir Cernoch: Guenther Meyer píše v Čt 21. 05. 2009 v 00:49 +0200: Am Wednesday 20 May 2009 schrieb Radomir Cernoch: ...but you would need some kind of gis database/functions to evaluate the polygon data. the easy way of reading just keys and values like with most of the other features in the osm database would not be possible. I have read somewhere (a few weeks ago) that querying whether a point lies in a country can be done quickly. I was assuming that the same should be possible for any polygon. However I am not aware of technical details. yes - if you can make use of a database with geospatial extension like postgis. there you have functions to find out easily if a point or a line (which streets are) lies inside a given polygon. I you don't have those functions, I don't know if this is possible. It may be, but this would be a very complex thing... signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] zones for motorway/in town/outof town?
Am Thursday 21 May 2009 schrieb Radomir Cernoch: Guenther Meyer píše v Čt 21. 05. 2009 v 00:51 +0200: Am Wednesday 20 May 2009 schrieb Jacek Konieczny: That would not work very well in Poland. Town/city/village administrative border usually differ from the built up zone borders. right. the same in germany. that's why we nedd to different zones: one like zone:traffic=... for speed limits and other legalities, and one, let's call it zone:administrative=... for the administrative border. Hi, this sounds reasonable. But is there a difference between boundary=administrative and zone:administrative=*? it's exactly the same, just the name is a different one. I would propose to tag these all with a generic key called zone, to unify the tagging. but of course I know that the boundary key is widely known and used... signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] zones for motorway/in town/outof town?
On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 10:57:52PM +0100, Radomir Cernoch wrote: The problem with the polygon is that you set a default without checking every individual street. Yes, but there are other people as well. What if they add a new street to the area you have carefully checked and then forget to add the zone info. Speedlimit is not like a missing name - Speed kills and we need to be pretty shure its accurate - Better no speed information at all than a sever broken one. I dont care if the name is missing but i care whether the speed is correct. I'd want my navi to either show me the correct speed or that it doesnt know instead of showing me wrong information 30% of the time. Id rather check all the individiual streets and tag them one by one when i am shure i have the correct fact. And if JOSM could understand the speed-polygon and told you: This road has speed limit 50 km/h because of way 2387567. Would it be a suitable solution? First josm needs to learn to put polygons into a seperate layer before we start adding even more ... When someone more knowledgeable about the town comes after me, he can easily set 'maxspeed=*' tag to roads, which have such regulation. If I had put 'zone-50' tag there? What would you do if you find that someone else had put a tag you consider suspicious? Probably double-check that place... spending more time checking someone else's mistake. There is no solution other than local survey - everything else is guessing - and IMHO openstreetmap is a collection of facts not guesses. So better have no fact than wrong guesses - at least thats true for maxspeed. I know its frustrating to see the map grow slowly but better than having a pile of bullshit nobody cares to look after. My experience is that once a street is in OSM nobody cares whether the name, maxspeed or something is correct. So better you be accurate right from the beginning. Lastly I must say that I really do feel for a perfect, detailed map. But I try not to forget about other people, especially newbies and also about those people, who do not spend hours studying wiki. No worry - just ignore maxspeed for the moment - its not that important. Flo -- Florian Lohoff f...@rfc822.org +49-171-2280134 Those who would give up a little freedom to get a little security shall soon have neither - Benjamin Franklin signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] zones for motorway/in town/outof town?
I would suggest: motorway, urban, rural. Mike Harris -Original Message- From: Guenther Meyer [mailto:d@sordidmusic.com] Sent: 20 May 2009 06:44 To: Talk Openstreetmap Subject: [OSM-talk] zones for motorway/in town/outof town? hi, currently there is a discussion on the german list about tagging speed limits respectively different zones. as there are implied also other things than maxspeed there are proposed three default zones, derived from the signs standing at every border crossing point: a) motorway: that's very clear, therea are no or very high limits. b) city areas with limited speed and some restrictions c) everything else, mostly out of town. so this questions goes primarily to the native english speakers: what would be the right term for a value for these zones? a) motorway? this one would be very clear I think. b) in_town? place? urban? it's the thing we call geschlossene ortschaft in germany, which inludes everything from very small villages to really large cities (bounded by yellow squared signs in germany). c) out_of_town? rural? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Satellite for OSM
2009/5/20 Joe Richards joefis...@yahoo.com: Where did this idea go in the end? It seems the talk about it petered-out, or was some action agreed (along with who was going to undertake it)? Given the US have forgotten to keep the GPS system up to date, maybe we need a few satelites of our own to replace it... Or maybe we can use Galileo once its up instead. Peter. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] zones for motorway/in town/outof town?
On Thursday 21 May 2009 01:24:36 Radomir Cernoch wrote: Cartinus píše v Čt 21. 05. 2009 v 01:01 +0200: It is completely possible for a village ringroad on a bridge (highway=primary or secondary) to have a maxspeed of 80 km/h due to being outside the build-up zone, not because there is a sign on it that says 80 km/h. It is also possible at the same time for the road under that bridge to have a maxspeed of 50 km/h due to being inside the build-up zone. The point of the bridge has one lat/lon, but the roads are vertically separated. This will never fit in any 2D model. I do not think I am missing the point. Your situation would be handled like this: 1) There is 1 polygon with a tag zone-50. 2) The road under the bridge has only 1 tag highway=residental. 3) The ringroad over the zone-50 has 2 tags: highway=primary and maxspeed=80. [There is _no_ polygon with zone-80!] If you ask for the limit on residental road, the answer is: 50, because it lies within the zone-50 region. If you ask for the limit on the ringroad, the answer is: 80, because it has the tag maxspeed=80, which has greater importance than the zone-50. If you ask for the limit of the lat/lon, where the roads have intersection on the map, the answer is: Ambiguous. You must specify the road, you are asking for! Did I explain it clearly this time? The ringroad does not have the tag maxspeed=80 !!! It has a maxspeed of 80 km/h because that is the default maxspeed of roads out of town in that country. Out of town was one of the three zones in the initial idea. It is defined by the country polygon. The whole idea behind tagging zones is that you wouldn't have to tag maxspeed on the road where it is not explicitly signed. By forcing the 3D reality into a 2D model you have to tag both the explicit signs and anyplace the model breaks down. Ergo: You need a better model. You say (in an earlier mail) that the point in network model won't work, because missing points cause the zone to leak all over the whole world. In the next sentence you say polygons don't have that problem. The second is wrong. There are plenty of broken polygons in the database. They get fixed as soon as somebody notices them. Since traffic zones will not be rendered by the main renders, you will need some special purpose renderer/tool to highlight any breakage, before any widespread use of whatever model you choose will work. Even for the simple model of tagging maxspeed at all roads there are currently special renderers to find what is still missing. -- m.v.g., Cartinus ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] zones for motorway/in town/outof town?
Guenther Meyer wrote: So while discussing HOW the default speed for roads are calculated is important, can we not simply apply that speed without adding another layer of complexity? I wouldn't do that, because it's a derived value depending on a lot of things like road type, time of day, weekday, construction sites, ... ok, you might add this value additionally with a special tag, to give a hint to routing applications. Why? maxspeed IS that tag The fact that some roads may not be suitable for DOING the maxspeed is another matter, and would benefit from an additional tag, but maxspeed is legally defined in most countries - and you do not need to have signs up to tell you what it is - that is if you have passed a driving test ;) but there are more applications than just routing, to which that data may be useless. Does that matter? maxspeed is already defined and exists Additionally there is a page for speed limits against highway tag and I remember a discussion about low speed limits in traffic calming areas which proposed an alternative to highway=residential for those areas, so the type of road is already included in defining the default maxspeed. on the other hand the speed limits are defined values (at least in every country I have been so far...). What I'm failing to see here is the REASON we need to add another set of area definitions simply to do with speed when that information is already well covered in existing tags - if they are used properly? -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk// Firebird - http://www.firebirdsql.org/index.php ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Potlatch 1.0
Hi all, It's been an important 24 hours for the webmapping world. At last - and after many months of expectation - UK cycle charity Sustrans released their new online slippy map. Oh yeah, and some irritating US outfit did some data API or something. But never mind any of that, because it's also Potlatch's second birthday! And that means: it's time for Potlatch 1.0. What's new? Online help. Offline editing. Conflict management. A new way of showing junction nodes. Better changeset handling. And some other stuff. Bugs and comments? Trac, of course, but there's also a new potlatch- dev mailing list - both for current Potlatch and exciting future stuff. Subscribe: http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/potlatch- dev/ . Enjoy! cheers Richard ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] zones for motorway/in town/outof town?
Am Thursday 21 May 2009 schrieb Cartinus: The ringroad does not have the tag maxspeed=80 !!! It has a maxspeed of 80 km/h because that is the default maxspeed of roads out of town in that country. Out of town was one of the three zones in the initial idea. It is defined by the country polygon. The whole idea behind tagging zones is that you wouldn't have to tag maxspeed on the road where it is not explicitly signed. exactly this. By forcing the 3D reality into a 2D model you have to tag both the explicit signs and anyplace the model breaks down. Ergo: You need a better model. it's easily doable with the current model, if you tag the ways directly with the zone-tags, and not via inside a polygon. if you also add the country to the tag, which i recommend, there is no need to evaluate any polygons, only the ways, to get the information needed. the tag then would be something like zone:traffic = CZ:out_of_town. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] zones for motorway/in town/outof town?
On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 9:42 AM, Cartinus carti...@xs4all.nl wrote: If you ask for the limit on the ringroad, the answer is: 80, because it has the tag maxspeed=80, which has greater importance than the zone-50.[...] The ringroad does not have the tag maxspeed=80 !!! It has a maxspeed of 80 km/h because that is the default maxspeed of roads out of town in that country. Out of town was one of the three zones in the initial idea. It is defined by the country polygon. what about adding a few interpreted values to the maxspeed tag, instead? that way one can be sure that the data comes from either local survey or some other safe source, and there is no local default value added to new roads without some human intervention in italy we would need the following: italian name | proposted value | current speed limit urbano | built_area | 50 km/h extraurbano| rural | 90 km/h extraurbano principale | half_motorway ? | 110 km/h autostrada | motorway| 130 km/h -- Elena ``of Valhalla'' homepage: http://www.trueelena.org email: elena.valha...@gmail.com ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Potlatch 1.0
Offline editing. Whoa! Gotta try this one. Congrats for all your work. -- cheers, maning -- Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] (no subject)
Most websites will give the terms under which content can be used, and these are no exception - they can't! At least not with negotiation with the vendors to permit CCbySA licensing. For example, under Important Notices the first two sites say: The material on this site is covered by the provisions of the Copyright Act, by Canadian laws, policies, regulations and international agreements. Such provisions serve to identify the information source and, in specific instances, to prohibit reproduction of materials without written permission. and in the second two, the user guides contain highly restrictive licence agreements. It is very unusual to find a source of map data that is not copyright and can just be used. Doesn't mean its not worth exploring with the authorities to see it an agreement can be reached, but just grabbing someone else's data is almost never going to work. There's also already an ongoing project to import data for Canada which has been agreed after negotiation. David On 20/05/2009 23:37, Ben Dauphinee wrote: I have found a lot of sources of map data after having a chat with the GIS guy at my workplace. I am curious if anyone can offer some suggestions or help me determine if this data can be imported to OSM. If so, can anyone help out getting this done? DNRE http://ess.nrcan.gc.ca/mapcar/index_e.php http://geogratis.cgdi.gc.ca/geogratis/en/product/search.do?id=8147 SNB http://www.snb.ca/gdam-igec/e/2900e_1.asp http://www.snb.ca/gdam-igec/e/2900e_1c.asp Internet Explorer 8 makes surfing easier. Get it now! http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9655264 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Satellite for OSM
Where did this idea go in the end? It seems the talk about it petered-out, or was some action agreed (along with who was going to undertake it)? Given the US have forgotten to keep the GPS system up to date, maybe we need a few satelites of our own to replace it... Or maybe we can use Galileo once its up instead. This was more about high-resolution aerial photography suitable for deriving traces. As for geopositioning satellites, I doubt the US military-industrial complex (or its adherents in places like Europe) will allow such a key technology to fall into real disrepair. Plus with future civilian receivers combining signals from Galileo and GPS, alongside radio signals, the future is actually looking brighter than ever... ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] zones for motorway/in town/outof town?
Guenther Meyer wrote: Am Thursday 21 May 2009 schrieb Lester Caine: Guenther Meyer wrote: So while discussing HOW the default speed for roads are calculated is important, can we not simply apply that speed without adding another layer of complexity? I wouldn't do that, because it's a derived value depending on a lot of things like road type, time of day, weekday, construction sites, ... ok, you might add this value additionally with a special tag, to give a hint to routing applications. Why? maxspeed IS that tag no! maxspeed is the tag, that specifies a given speed limit, and is legally defined. it is NOT some average speed value for a specific road. ALL roads have a defined maximum speed limit ... is this just a matter of 'conversion to english'? The fact that a road does not have a specific sign is not something that maxspeed is concerned with? At least in my reading of the guide lines on maxspeed. but there are more applications than just routing, to which that data may be useless. Does that matter? maxspeed is already defined and exists Additionally there is a page for speed limits against highway tag and I remember a discussion about low speed limits in traffic calming areas which proposed an alternative to highway=residential for those areas, so the type of road is already included in defining the default maxspeed. on the other hand the speed limits are defined values (at least in every country I have been so far...). What I'm failing to see here is the REASON we need to add another set of area definitions simply to do with speed when that information is already well covered in existing tags - if they are used properly? my first suggestion was exactly this: why not use and extend the already existing tags for that, like maxspeed = DE:in_town. but after some discussion it was clear that such a tag would imply more than just certain speed limits, as I already mentioned. that's why the idea of using a more generic key was coming up. A key on a road segment is a lot more practical than defining another layer of complexity. And I can understand that maxspeed=DE:in_town makes a lot of sense since a global change to that limit does not require every way to be updated. There is a debate on changing the UK 60 limit to 50 which will need a lot of changes to these tags, but at present every road I go down seems to have had it's default limit lowered to 50 or even 40 anyway. Nearly got caught out with a new limit and speed camera last week :( So the next question has to be - because I'm not SEEING the reason - why is 'maxspeed=DE:in_town' a problem? What is it implying other than a fact of law? I would also point out that maxspeed needs a tidy up anyway since it does not have any provision for my previous note about VARIABLE speed limits. These are being applied more and more to UK motorways to cope with the congestion, and are changed based on traffic conditions. Roads in residential areas my also have lower limits during school days at start end end times. -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk// Firebird - http://www.firebirdsql.org/index.php ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Google satellite maps updates
I haven't seen this anywhere, but it seems that Google is updating its satellite maps with even higher resolution data. Compare what I previously knew as best resolution: http://maps.google.nl/maps?f=qsource=s_qhl=nlgeocode=ie=UTF8ll=51.835292,5.859522spn=0.001566,0.003272t=kz=19 with this: http://maps.google.nl/maps?f=qsource=s_qhl=nlgeocode=ie=UTF8ll=51.973234,4.253047spn=0.000781,0.001636t=kz=20 That's pretty impressive (and will get everyone looking at the beaches to see some skin). Regards, Maarten ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Google satellite maps updates
On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 11:14 AM, Maarten Deen md...@xs4all.nl wrote: with this: http://maps.google.nl/maps?f=qsource=s_qhl=nlgeocode=ie=UTF8ll=51.973234,4.253047spn=0.000781,0.001636t=kz=20 AFAIK Milano has been like this detailed for at least a year now: http://tinyurl.com/plusxg -- -S ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] zones for motorway/in town/outof town?
Am Thursday 21 May 2009 schrieb Lester Caine: ALL roads have a defined maximum speed limit ... is this just a matter of 'conversion to english'? The fact that a road does not have a specific sign is not something that maxspeed is concerned with? At least in my reading of the guide lines on maxspeed. right, all roads have a defined limit. the proposal is: if there is a sign for a speed limit: use maxspeed = ... if not: use zone:traffic = ... the maxspeed here can be derived from the zone tag. my first suggestion was exactly this: why not use and extend the already existing tags for that, like maxspeed = DE:in_town. but after some discussion it was clear that such a tag would imply more than just certain speed limits, as I already mentioned. that's why the idea of using a more generic key was coming up. A key on a road segment is a lot more practical than defining another layer of complexity. I agree with you. I would set those zone tags on the roads, not on a polygon. And I can understand that maxspeed=DE:in_town makes a lot of sense since a global change to that limit does not require every way to be updated. There is a debate on changing the UK 60 limit to 50 which will need a lot of changes to these tags, but at present every road I go down seems to have had it's default limit lowered to 50 or even 40 anyway. Nearly got caught out with a new limit and speed camera last week :( So the next question has to be - because I'm not SEEING the reason - why is 'maxspeed=DE:in_town' a problem? What is it implying other than a fact of law? if you are in-town there are the following things implied (I hope I can translate them right...): - maxspeed = 50 - motor vehicles up to 3.5t can freely choose the lane on which they want to drive on streets with more tahn one lane for the driving direction. also they can drive faster on the right lane as other cars on the left lane. - parking is allowed up to 5m before a railroad crossing sign (St. Andrew's cross?) - steady parking for trucks with more that 7.5t is not allowed in residential and clinic areas - for parking in the dark parking lights are enough - if you like to overtake another vehicle you must not signalize this with horn or flasher I know, that not all of these are currently relevant for osm. but if the day comes, when such data will be important, it's easier to alter the central definiton of DE:in_town than to add new tags for that to every single road. I would also point out that maxspeed needs a tidy up anyway since it does not have any provision for my previous note about VARIABLE speed limits. These are being applied more and more to UK motorways to cope with the congestion, and are changed based on traffic conditions. Roads in residential areas my also have lower limits during school days at start end end times. variable depending only on? or other things? I have writtena proposal on the german list some time ago to allow the tagging of time-dependant resctrictions in an easy way, that would be also machine- and human-readable. but I don't know if it is used by someone... signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Potlatch 1.0
And that means: it's time for Potlatch 1.0. Just had a play - both offline and live editing and wow - it's lovely. Seems to be lots quicker too... Great job Regards Phil ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] zones for motorway/in town/outof town?
Guenther Meyer píše v Čt 21. 05. 2009 v 09:20 +0200: Am Thursday 21 May 2009 schrieb Radomir Cernoch: Hi, this sounds reasonable. But is there a difference between boundary=administrative and zone:administrative=*? it's exactly the same, just the name is a different one. I would propose to tag these all with a generic key called zone, to unify the tagging. but of course I know that the boundary key is widely known and used... Hi, could you expand a bit more what is generally meant as a zone in Germany, please? Currently boundary=administrative is used for areas as small as a suburb to whole countries. Would zone:administrative do the same? The reason why I'm asking is that in Czech it would be counter-intuitive to use the word zóna for anything bigger than a town. Meanwhile boundary sounds more general. Regards, Radek ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Potlatch 1.0
And that means: it's time for Potlatch 1.0. Just had a play - both offline and live editing and wow - it's lovely. Seems to be lots quicker too... Great job Regards Phil ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] GPS Future Was Re: Satellite for OSM
2009/5/21 Joe Richards joefis...@yahoo.com: Where did this idea go in the end? It seems the talk about it petered-out, or was some action agreed (along with who was going to undertake it)? Given the US have forgotten to keep the GPS system up to date, maybe we need a few satelites of our own to replace it... Or maybe we can use Galileo once its up instead. This was more about high-resolution aerial photography suitable for deriving traces. As for geopositioning satellites, I doubt the US military-industrial complex (or its adherents in places like Europe) will allow such a key technology to fall into real disrepair. Plus with future civilian receivers combining signals from Galileo and GPS, alongside radio signals, the future is actually looking brighter than ever... I agreed but the newspapers here in the UK are saying here, that the updates to GPS are running two years late and its highly unlike that there will be no interruptions. around the 2020 date unless the US Airforce find some more satellites quickly. Of course we never believe what they put in the Press.. Apparently this could all play into Galileos hands. I'm a computer programmer but I always find you need to know how to work without them just in case they stop working which they are hmm prone to doing. Out of a matter of principle we ought to have a section on the website to mapping without a GPS. Peter. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Fwd: Re: zones for motorway/in town/outof town?]
Guenther Meyer píše v Čt 21. 05. 2009 v 09:02 +0200: yes - if you can make use of a database with geospatial extension like postgis. there you have functions to find out easily if a point or a line (which streets are) lies inside a given polygon. I you don't have those functions, I don't know if this is possible. It may be, but this would be a very complex thing... Thank you for your explanation. Would it be then possible to ask questions like: Is the point at (x,y) inside any polygon, which has tag 'z'? Or even something like a JOIN of the point itself with the polygon: Give me all points in bbox (a,b,c,d) and the value of 'zone:xxx' of an encompassing polygon, if they lie in some? Sorry for many questions, but I do not want to promote an idea without knowing that it's feasible... Thanks in advance, Radek Černoch ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] zones for motorway/in town/outof town?
Guenther Meyer wrote: Am Thursday 21 May 2009 schrieb Lester Caine: ALL roads have a defined maximum speed limit ... is this just a matter of 'conversion to english'? The fact that a road does not have a specific sign is not something that maxspeed is concerned with? At least in my reading of the guide lines on maxspeed. right, all roads have a defined limit. the proposal is: if there is a sign for a speed limit: use maxspeed = ... if not: use zone:traffic = ... the maxspeed here can be derived from the zone tag. For routing purposes ... building the time for a route ... If maxspeed is set - use maxspeed, otherwise use the default for the highway= type for your country which would imply that zone:traffic= is equivalent to highway=(residential/in_town) based on country again. my first suggestion was exactly this: why not use and extend the already existing tags for that, like maxspeed = DE:in_town. but after some discussion it was clear that such a tag would imply more than just certain speed limits, as I already mentioned. that's why the idea of using a more generic key was coming up. A key on a road segment is a lot more practical than defining another layer of complexity. I agree with you. I would set those zone tags on the roads, not on a polygon. And I can understand that maxspeed=DE:in_town makes a lot of sense since a global change to that limit does not require every way to be updated. There is a debate on changing the UK 60 limit to 50 which will need a lot of changes to these tags, but at present every road I go down seems to have had it's default limit lowered to 50 or even 40 anyway. Nearly got caught out with a new limit and speed camera last week :( So the next question has to be - because I'm not SEEING the reason - why is 'maxspeed=DE:in_town' a problem? What is it implying other than a fact of law? if you are in-town there are the following things implied (I hope I can translate them right...): - maxspeed = 50 - motor vehicles up to 3.5t can freely choose the lane on which they want to drive on streets with more tahn one lane for the driving direction. also they can drive faster on the right lane as other cars on the left lane. - parking is allowed up to 5m before a railroad crossing sign (St. Andrew's cross?) - steady parking for trucks with more that 7.5t is not allowed in residential and clinic areas - for parking in the dark parking lights are enough - if you like to overtake another vehicle you must not signalize this with horn or flasher I know, that not all of these are currently relevant for osm. but if the day comes, when such data will be important, it's easier to alter the central definiton of DE:in_town than to add new tags for that to every single road. All of that needs adding to http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/trafficzone ( now that I've found it ... ) but rule one is 'highway=' should exist for every road so if that highway=motorway takes priority and should define any other motorway conditions that apply, and maxspeed then adjusts the motorway limit if required. Rendering and routing use the highway= tag to identify roads, and can add speed limits based on the existing rules. Additional traffic restrictions would be linked to highway=DE:residential rather than creating yet another minefield? I've made a case in the past for replacing a lot of this with simple numeric tags that display text using your local country code, but having something like highway=residential pulling up the local set of default rules - such as the above for DE located roads - looks a lot more practical than adding yet another set of 'rules' that need tags adding? I would also point out that maxspeed needs a tidy up anyway since it does not have any provision for my previous note about VARIABLE speed limits. These are being applied more and more to UK motorways to cope with the congestion, and are changed based on traffic conditions. Roads in residential areas my also have lower limits during school days at start end end times. variable depending only on? or other things? I have writtena proposal on the german list some time ago to allow the tagging of time-dependant resctrictions in an easy way, that would be also machine- and human-readable. but I don't know if it is used by someone... The motorway restrictions are FULLY variable, in that the traffic management centre will apply them as need demands, and the hard shoulder of motorways can be introduced as an extra lane in some areas to reduce conjestion - at any time. School restrictions tend to apply when a locally activated warning is displayed, so while this is basically a timed event, the times can vary depending on the local situation. Now if we had a website that gives the current status of each of these situations then things would be easier, but if you are not going to reach an area for some time, then even
Re: [OSM-talk] Revert changes/bug in changeset?
On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 4:27 AM, Aun Yngve Johnsen skipp...@gimnechiske.org wrote: Can somebody look into reverting way 33136730 and 33136657. They seem to have been buggy (only 3 nodes visible out of many) and whan I did an update of relations connected to these roads, they was updated with the version I had on my computer (no changes should have been done to the ways). Original of the two ways are version 1, from changeset 503897 by user Nighto, while my changeset 1270407 should never have updated these two ways and therefor version 2 should be reverted. Done. -- Regards, EddyP = Imagination is more important than knowledge A.Einstein ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] [tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - place=sea, ocean, archipelago
Here are three proposals for identifying high level marine features that I already use. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Ocean http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Sea http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Archipelago Comments on each discussion page welcome. Mike ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] GPS Future Was Re: Satellite for OSM
2009/5/21 Peter Childs pchi...@bcs.org 2009/5/21 Joe Richards joefis...@yahoo.com: Where did this idea go in the end? It seems the talk about it petered-out, or was some action agreed (along with who was going to undertake it)? Given the US have forgotten to keep the GPS system up to date, maybe we need a few satelites of our own to replace it... Or maybe we can use Galileo once its up instead. This was more about high-resolution aerial photography suitable for deriving traces. As for geopositioning satellites, I doubt the US military-industrial complex (or its adherents in places like Europe) will allow such a key technology to fall into real disrepair. Plus with future civilian receivers combining signals from Galileo and GPS, alongside radio signals, the future is actually looking brighter than ever... I agreed but the newspapers here in the UK are saying here, that the updates to GPS are running two years late and its highly unlike that there will be no interruptions. around the 2020 date unless the US Airforce find some more satellites quickly. Of course we never believe what they put in the Press.. Apparently this could all play into Galileos hands. Isn't it the plan that Galileo will operate on the same frequencies as the current US GPS using the same protocol, just with offset satellite IDs such that even current GPSrs should be able to use both? Also if I recall correctly there were talks about the russian/indian GLONASS system being modified to also work with the same frequencies etc as the existing US GPS... If this all comes to fruit and GPSrs are able to cope with all of these additional signals, there will be an additional 60 satellites providing signals by 2020, so even in the unlikely event that the US GPS happens to be running a bit low on satellites, it shouldn't be enough for anyone to notice much should it? d ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Fwd: Re: zones for motorway/in town/outof town?]
Am Thursday 21 May 2009 schrieb Radomir Cernoch: Guenther Meyer píše v Čt 21. 05. 2009 v 09:02 +0200: yes - if you can make use of a database with geospatial extension like postgis. there you have functions to find out easily if a point or a line (which streets are) lies inside a given polygon. I you don't have those functions, I don't know if this is possible. It may be, but this would be a very complex thing... Thank you for your explanation. Would it be then possible to ask questions like: Is the point at (x,y) inside any polygon, which has tag 'z'? Or even something like a JOIN of the point itself with the polygon: Give me all points in bbox (a,b,c,d) and the value of 'zone:xxx' of an encompassing polygon, if they lie in some? with or without gis functions? with those functions this all is possible. without, searching for points inside a bbox or circle is relatively easy, finding a point inside a polygon is maybe also doable with some more effort. Sorry for many questions, but I do not want to promote an idea without knowing that it's feasible... I'm not a gis expert, maybe here are people who know this better... what is your idea? signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] zones for motorway/in town/outof town?
Am Thursday 21 May 2009 schrieb Lester Caine: right, all roads have a defined limit. the proposal is: if there is a sign for a speed limit: use maxspeed = ... if not: use zone:traffic = ... the maxspeed here can be derived from the zone tag. For routing purposes ... building the time for a route ... If maxspeed is set - use maxspeed, otherwise use the default for the highway= type for your country which would imply that zone:traffic= is equivalent to highway=(residential/in_town) based on country again. the zones don't have to be equivalent to the highway-types! maybe most time they are, but not everywhere; an example: I see it very often, that the place sign stand some hundred meters before the buildings begin. the residential highway would be where the buildings are, but the zone starts these som hundred meters earlier. you will also have different highway-types like primary/secondary/residential/... inside the same zone:traffic. All of that needs adding to http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/trafficzone ( now that I've found it ... ) but rule one is 'highway=' should exist for every road so if that highway=motorway takes priority and should define any other motorway conditions that apply, and maxspeed then adjusts the motorway limit if required. right. the primary default is the zone. if a highway type implies some other attributes, those will be used. if there are signs tagged somehow, they will override evereything else. Rendering and routing use the highway= tag to identify roads, and can add speed limits based on the existing rules. Additional traffic restrictions would be linked to highway=DE:residential rather than creating yet another minefield? right. I've made a case in the past for replacing a lot of this with simple numeric tags that display text using your local country code, but having something like highway=residential pulling up the local set of default rules - such as the above for DE located roads - looks a lot more practical than adding yet another set of 'rules' that need tags adding? I think, we will need new tags for all kinds of restrictions that may occur some day. The motorway restrictions are FULLY variable, in that the traffic management centre will apply them as need demands, and the hard shoulder of motorways can be introduced as an extra lane in some areas to reduce conjestion - at any time. the thing with the extra lane is also done in germany. but I wouldn't know how to tag this, because there's no certain time or other base when this is active. maybe as an extension of the lanes-key... Now if we had a website that gives the current status of each of these situations then things would be easier, but if you are not going to reach an area for some time, then even that is not a lot of help :( But these are basically variable rules applied to maxspeed= and overiding the default normally applied. I think those dynamic maxspeeds based on the traffic can't be mapped in a useful way. a router would have to use TMC or other realtime sources to know the current state. what we could do as a hint for routers and drivers, is adding the information that the road is equipped with a traffic guidance system. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] zones for motorway/in town/outof town?
Am Thursday 21 May 2009 schrieb Radomir Cernoch: Guenther Meyer píše v Čt 21. 05. 2009 v 09:20 +0200: Am Thursday 21 May 2009 schrieb Radomir Cernoch: Hi, this sounds reasonable. But is there a difference between boundary=administrative and zone:administrative=*? it's exactly the same, just the name is a different one. I would propose to tag these all with a generic key called zone, to unify the tagging. but of course I know that the boundary key is widely known and used... Hi, could you expand a bit more what is generally meant as a zone in Germany, please? Currently boundary=administrative is used for areas as small as a suburb to whole countries. Would zone:administrative do the same? zone:traffic or boundary:traffic? zone:administrative or boundary:administrative? or something else? zone is just a word, I don't care how the key is called in the end as long it reflects its meaning... boundary let's me always think of some kind of borderline with some kind of barrier, but if it is the best english term for what we want to do, it's ok for me. The reason why I'm asking is that in Czech it would be counter-intuitive to use the word zóna for anything bigger than a town. Meanwhile boundary sounds more general. I think, that zone sound more general ;-) but I'm no native english speaker; maybe we have someone here who can clarify this? signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Potlatch 1.0
Richard, Sustrans online continues to disappoint this user. Potlatch continues to satisfy requirements of this user. Thanks for all time you have put in to develop these new features. Cheers STEVE -Original Message- From: talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of Richard Fairhurst Sent: 21 May 2009 09:09 To: OpenStreetMap generic wibble Subject: [OSM-talk] Potlatch 1.0 Hi all, It's been an important 24 hours for the webmapping world. At last - and after many months of expectation - UK cycle charity Sustrans released their new online slippy map. Oh yeah, and some irritating US outfit did some data API or something. But never mind any of that, because it's also Potlatch's second birthday! And that means: it's time for Potlatch 1.0. What's new? Online help. Offline editing. Conflict management. A new way of showing junction nodes. Better changeset handling. And some other stuff. Bugs and comments? Trac, of course, but there's also a new potlatch- dev mailing list - both for current Potlatch and exciting future stuff. Subscribe: http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/potlatch- dev/ . Enjoy! cheers Richard ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] zones for motorway/in town/outof town?
Florian Lohoff píše v Čt 21. 05. 2009 v 09:21 +0200: There is no solution other than local survey - everything else is guessing - and IMHO openstreetmap is a collection of facts not guesses. So better have no fact than wrong guesses - at least thats true for maxspeed. Than why do we have tags like access=unknown? It's not a guess, it's just missing information. The legislation says following: Inside built-up area the speed limit is 50 km/h if not specified otherwise. Creating an area zone:traffic=XX:in_town is an exact mirror of this law. Speedlimit is not like a missing name - Speed kills and we need to be pretty shure its accurate - Better no speed information at all than a sever broken one. I dont care if the name is missing but i care whether the speed is correct. I'd want my navi to either show me the correct speed or that it doesnt know instead of showing me wrong information 30% of the time. My GPS works different way. If I'm in a town, it does not check the default 50 km/h limit. It only checks those roads, which have a sign regulating the speed. In my proposed model, there must be a maxspeed tag on that particular road or a polygon zone:traffic=XX:residental, which would allow the GPS to start beeping. A polygon zone:traffic=XX:in_town does not cause my GPS to check the speed, because the driver must be aware of such regulation anyway. If not, he should not be driving a car at all. But maybe your GPS works different way... I know its frustrating to see the map grow slowly but better than having a pile of bullshit nobody cares to look after. My experience is that once a street is in OSM nobody cares whether the name, maxspeed or something is correct. So better you be accurate right from the beginning. But this would mean, that GPS units using OSM will be navigating people through 30 km/h residental areas for about... let's guess 10 more years? At least in Czech Republic. This does not seem to me like a big security. Controlling maxspeed limit and doing navigation through cities are anyway two distinct things based on different information. Yours, Radomir Cernoch ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] zones for motorway/in town/outof town?
Radomir Cernoch schrieb: ... Sorry, I maybe didn't make myself clear. Polygon rules do not apply for motorways. Is there any country, where a highway inside a city has different speed limit from the highway outside of the city? Even if yes, this can be specified in the set of country-specific rules... I can imagine a situation, where a normal 50 km/h road goes through the middle of a zone-30. Then there are two options: 1) You split the zone-30 polygon into 2 polygons. 2) You tag the 50 km/h road with maxspeed=50. Yours, Radek Hi Radek, instead of using a complicated polygon-struction (which is btw not as correct as just giving the road a tag) you simple can give any oficial roads (e.g. no tracks oder private service-ways) of the town a trafficzone=in_city and giving the zone-30-roads a maxspeed=30. Finished ;) Regards Mario ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] zones for motorway/in town/outof town?
On Thursday 21 May 2009 16:26:04 Guenther Meyer wrote: what we could do as a hint for routers and drivers, is adding the information that the road is equipped with a traffic guidance system. Looking at tagwatch, you can find maxspeed=signals in use already. -- m.v.g., Cartinus ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] zones for motorway/in town/outof town?
Hi, your mail suggests it's time for recapitulation. Firstly let's describe the without-polygon model: 1) Road has tag maxspeed. = I have the answer based purely on maxspeed tag. = Stop any further reasoning. 2) Road has tag zone:traffic = I have the answer based on the combination of tags zone:traffic and highway. = Stop any further reasoning. 3) The answer is unknown. Now the proposal of polygon model, which emerged through discussion and which I do support. It removes point 3 and adds: 3) Road lies within a polygon tagged zone:traffic = I have the answer based on the combination of polygon's tag zone:traffic and road's tag highway. = Stop any further reasoning. 4) The answer is unknown. Please notice the important point: If we adopt polygon model and you want to use the without-polygon model, no problem. It's just enough to make sure that your road does not lie within any zone:traffic polygon. The freedom is yours. Ok, then why should we have the polygons? * It models the law more accurately. * Therefore you can infer more information. * You can refine the details of the map gradually over time. At the same it allows a truthful interpretation of the OSM data all the time. * If someone forgets to add the maxspeed or zone:traffic tag to a road, this model is closer to reality. (Please note that this may happen in a very well made map, see my previous Helsinki mail). * Therefore it's friendlier to newbies. The most serious flaw so far: * The question of querying node within a polygon or line withing a polygon. So far it seems that such query is doable using PostGis. Nevertheless this needs to be confirmed. If you want any details of the points here, please feel free to ask even if they have probably been posted before. I do not have any other arguments and unless anyone else does... take it or leave it. Yours, Radek Černoch Mario Salvini píše v Čt 21. 05. 2009 v 14:53 +0200: Hi Radek, instead of using a complicated polygon-struction (which is btw not as correct as just giving the road a tag) you simple can give any oficial roads (e.g. no tracks oder private service-ways) of the town a trafficzone=in_city and giving the zone-30-roads a maxspeed=30. Finished ;) Regards Mario ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] zones for motorway/in town/outof town?
Am Thursday 21 May 2009 schrieb Cartinus: On Thursday 21 May 2009 16:26:04 Guenther Meyer wrote: what we could do as a hint for routers and drivers, is adding the information that the road is equipped with a traffic guidance system. Looking at tagwatch, you can find maxspeed=signals in use already. is this tag used for such things also, not only traffic lights? fine! signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] reverse changeset #1268604, which moved nodes across continents
Please reverse the changeset #1268604: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/1268604 Chris ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] zones for motorway/in town/outof town?
Radomir Cernoch schrieb: ... Ok, then why should we have the polygons? ** It models the law more accurately.* ... this assumption is not correct. Indeed it more incorrect than tagging trafficzone=* on the Ways itself, becasue nether private property nor public parcs, nor anykind of other tracks are part of the official traffic-zone, but with a polygon you implies this, and thats a big incorrectness. So tagging it on each way is: - much more accurate - easier for beginners, becasue the only need to know 3 Tags: highway, trafficzone, and maxspeed (for explicit restriction) - easier for applications because they do not need polygons at all (e.g. for routing or speed-controlling) Regards Mario ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] zones for motorway/in town/outof town?
On Thursday 21 May 2009 17:21:18 Guenther Meyer wrote: Looking at tagwatch, you can find maxspeed=signals in use already. is this tag used for such things also, not only traffic lights? fine! AFAIK a traffic light is a node object with a highway=traffic_signals. AFAIK a way with maxspeed=signals is used for those portals with the electronic speed signs you see over the motorway. But I don't do that much motorway mapping on my bicycle or by public transport ;) -- m.v.g., Cartinus ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] zones for motorway/in town/outof town?
Am Thursday 21 May 2009 schrieb Radomir Cernoch: Ok, then why should we have the polygons? we are talking here about the mentioned tags for the traffic, not administrative or other boundaries, right? ok,. let's see: * It models the law more accurately. false. the traffic laws apply to streets only, not to buildings, areas, other polygons, footways, ... which are also inside the given polygon. * Therefore you can infer more information. * You can refine the details of the map gradually over time. At the same it allows a truthful interpretation of the OSM data all the time. * If someone forgets to add the maxspeed or zone:traffic tag to a road, this model is closer to reality. (Please note that this may happen in a very well made map, see my previous Helsinki mail). how about roads crossing the polygon but that aren't part of the zone? if there are things not tagged, then the result is NOT closer to reality. * Therefore it's friendlier to newbies. I don't think so. not for traffic specific tagging. The most serious flaw so far: * The question of querying node within a polygon or line withing a polygon. So far it seems that such query is doable using PostGis. Nevertheless this needs to be confirmed. postgis or other similar software. a lot of overhead that could be avoided. not good for developing software running on small devices with limited resources. a very complex for developers who can't rely on gis systems. instead of using a complicated polygon-struction (which is btw not as correct as just giving the road a tag) you simple can give any oficial roads (e.g. no tracks oder private service-ways) of the town a trafficzone=in_city and giving the zone-30-roads a maxspeed=30. Finished ;) I woud go the same... signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] zones for motorway/in town/outof town?
Radomír Černoch schrieb: 2009/5/21 Mario Salvini salv...@t-online.de: Radomir Cernoch schrieb: ... Ok, then why should we have the polygons? ** It models the law more accurately.* ... this assumption is not correct. Indeed it more incorrect than tagging trafficzone=* on the Ways itself, becasue nether private property nor public parcs, nor anykind of other tracks are part of the official traffic-zone, but with a polygon you implies this, and thats a big incorrectness. Maybe I should have emphasize that you can (and should) use multi-polygons. Radek And where is the benefit using a totally mess of several multi-polygons, instead of simply setting highway=* trafficzone=* and if explicit needed maxspeed=* ? Using Polygon is much more complicated and much more incorrect. So it doesn't help anyone. Regards Mario ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Map rendering
Am 20.05.2009 um 17:11 schrieb Mike Ryan: At the end, it says that you can remove features, by removing the rules from osm-map-features-z17.xml file. However, when I took out pubs, for example, they're still there when I render the map. (I'm trying to generate a simple map with just street names) Probably there is more than just one rule for pubs in osm-map-features- z17.xml. I had this situation for example with hotels. IIRC there were at least 3 rules for them: amenity:hotel -- caption amenity:hotel -- symbol tourism:hotel -- symbol And may be more. HTH, Ingo -- Ingo Lantschner 1060 Vienna-Austria Mobil +43-664-143 84 18 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] zones for motorway/in town/outof town?
* The question of querying node within a polygon or line withing a polygon. So far it seems that such query is doable using PostGis. Nevertheless this needs to be confirmed. postgis or other similar software. a lot of overhead that could be avoided. not good for developing software running on small devices with limited resources. a very complex for developers who can't rely on gis systems. I think that maxspeed is a property of a way, not an area, but to run on limited resource devices, you could always pre-process the data by looking at all the eligible ways within that polygon and add the maxspeed tag. I guess you might also have to split the way on the area boundary too. Andy ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] zones for motorway/in town/outof town?
Cartinus wrote: AFAIK a way with maxspeed=signals is used for those portals with the electronic speed signs you see over the motorway. I actually hope mappers only use maxspeed=signals for those motorway sections where the speed routinely changes based on congestion or time of day. Not to note the fact whether those portals are just merely present. And also not for the dutch system where portals signal a decreasing lower speed, just to alert arriving traffic that traffic in front of them is slowing down. -- Lennard ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] zones for motorway/in town/outof town?
So while it seems to be a polygon vs tags on ways discussion: I wonder what people have against using relations to combine all roads in one built-up area, or one maxspeed zone, or some other kind of zone. It's really the cleanest option and allows for additional tags like a name, and it allows everything to be more clearly defined, and allows for a method which is much more flexible and allows for extended properties. I guess these arguments will come up: * it's not newbie friendly relations are one of only three basic structures in OSM (node - way - relation), can we please assume that someone mapping with OSM can grasp three concepts? He already should be able to deal with them now anyway. * relations will become huge in some cities some relations are already huge, just look out for some cross continental E roads, or some long walking or cycling routes. * you'll forget to add some roads to the relation and you'll also forget to add tags to roads if you do it that way -- it's entirely the same issue you have to deal with. And that's what error checkers are for. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] zones for motorway/in town/outof town?
Am Thursday 21 May 2009 schrieb Ben Laenen: So while it seems to be a polygon vs tags on ways discussion: I wonder what people have against using relations to combine all roads in one built-up area, or one maxspeed zone, or some other kind of zone. It's really the cleanest option and allows for additional tags like a name, and it allows everything to be more clearly defined, and allows for a method which is much more flexible and allows for extended properties. I guess these arguments will come up: * it's not newbie friendly right ;-) relations are one of only three basic structures in OSM (node - way - relation), can we please assume that someone mapping with OSM can grasp three concepts? He already should be able to deal with them now anyway. they are, but at least for me relations really add some kind of complexity. yes, some things aren't possible with the other structures, but using relations as an answer for everything is not a good way... * relations will become huge in some cities some relations are already huge, just look out for some cross continental E roads, or some long walking or cycling routes. you have to get the whole relation, just to check, if some streets are part of it. size does matter here... with the tag-on-street approach you only need the street, nothing more. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] How to contribute new tag and symbol?
Hi all, I created a symbol and some rules for the key/value tourism/ apartment. How can I contribute this symbol (svg) and the rules to the official osm-map-features-z17.xml? A description for this node is here: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tags#References Thanks in advance, Ingo -- Ingo Lantschner 1060 Vienna-Austria Mobil +43-664-143 84 18 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] zones for motorway/in town/outof town?
Ben Laenen píše v Čt 21. 05. 2009 v 17:54 +0200: So while it seems to be a polygon vs tags on ways discussion: I wonder what people have against using relations to combine all roads in one built-up area, or one maxspeed zone, or some other kind of zone. It's really the cleanest option and allows for additional tags like a name, and it allows everything to be more clearly defined, and allows for a method which is much more flexible and allows for extended properties. How would a typical city look like? All 80 km/h roads in one relation and all 50 km/h roads in another relation? Or one relation per suburb? And what about while countries: all rural 90 km/h roads in one relation? Thanks, Radek ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] How to contribute new tag and symbol?
On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 12:31 PM, Ingo Lantschner listen2...@lantschner.name wrote: Hi all, I created a symbol and some rules for the key/value tourism/ apartment. How can I contribute this symbol (svg) and the rules to the official osm-map-features-z17.xml? I think you need to find a different key than apartment. It seems you want to tag an extended stay hotel from the description: Rental (business) suites; aimed toward medium- or long-stay guests. Also called extended stay hotels, serviced apartment, Ferienwohnung, self-catering-apartment , but in the US apartment is used to describe any rental unit in a building with other rental units whether they are flats, townhomes, or a mixture of the two. The wikipedia article you linked in the description uses apartment as I indicated and not as you described. A description for this node is here: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tags#References This is the incorrect link. Cheers, Adam ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] zones for motorway/in town/outof town?
On 21 May 2009, at 17:33, Radomir Cernoch wrote: Ben Laenen píše v Čt 21. 05. 2009 v 17:54 +0200: So while it seems to be a polygon vs tags on ways discussion: I wonder what people have against using relations to combine all roads in one built-up area, or one maxspeed zone, or some other kind of zone. It's really the cleanest option and allows for additional tags like a name, and it allows everything to be more clearly defined, and allows for a method which is much more flexible and allows for extended properties. How would a typical city look like? All 80 km/h roads in one relation and all 50 km/h roads in another relation? Or one relation per suburb? And what about while countries: all rural 90 km/h roads in one relation? This is using relations as categories, which is wrong. The speed is what tags are for, as it is an attribute of the way, there is nothing special about them. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Relations/Relations_are_not_Categories Shaun smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] zones for motorway/in town/outof town?
Ben Laenen wrote: It's really the cleanest option and allows for additional tags like a name, and it allows everything to be more clearly defined, I don't see why that would be the case. For every way with tag X, Y applies isn't any less clearly defined than For every way in a relation with tag X, Y applies. What you probably mean is that we wouldn't need to define new tags with a set of implications, but could instead create a relation that directly contains all tags that would otherwise be implied. I'd still prefer a standardized tag for use in relations, though. Adding all relevant tags (the proposal page lists several suggestions here) to the relation for every single city is very error-prone and doesn't allow easy changes of those sets. and allows for a method which is much more flexible and allows for extended properties. This is correct, using relations for restrictions does allow for more flexible tagging, especially with stuff like proper conditional restrictions. However, these advantages aren't limited to what we are talking about here (standardized sets of default restrictions). Instead, they are even _more_ useful for explicit signage (whether zonal or otherwise). The standardized restriction sets can easily be expressed with a single tag, simply because there aren't many of them. So while there are reasons for using relations as a means of expressing restrictions on ways, I don't see why this relates to this proposal. The shortcut tags for commonly implied sets of restrictions could be used in relation-based mapping as well. Tobias Knerr ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] zones for motorway/in town/outof town?
Radomir Cernoch schrieb: Ben Laenen píše v Čt 21. 05. 2009 v 17:54 +0200: So while it seems to be a polygon vs tags on ways discussion: I wonder what people have against using relations to combine all roads in one built-up area, or one maxspeed zone, or some other kind of zone. It's really the cleanest option and allows for additional tags like a name, and it allows everything to be more clearly defined, and allows for a method which is much more flexible and allows for extended properties. How would a typical city look like? All 80 km/h roads in one relation and all 50 km/h roads in another relation? Or one relation per suburb? And what about while countries: all rural 90 km/h roads in one relation? Thanks, Radek Even every relevant road for _ONE_ city in one relation won't work, because the membercount of a relation is limited since API 0.6. This methode won't create any benefit. Regards Mario ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] zones for motorway/in town/outof town?
We already have default speed limits within urban zones defined by a polygone. No relation here. Now, you are talking about an exception to the default speed limit and I hope, it is a minority of streets in this case. Then just simply add the tag maxspeed to these ways, thus overriding any default values. Why are you making you life so complicated ? Are you going to create a relation or a polygone for all oneway streets or streets with bicycle lanes in your town ? A speed limit is nothing else than a property of a street. Pieren ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] zones for motorway/in town/outof town?
On Thursday 21 May 2009, Guenther Meyer wrote: relations are one of only three basic structures in OSM (node - way - relation), can we please assume that someone mapping with OSM can grasp three concepts? He already should be able to deal with them now anyway. they are, but at least for me relations really add some kind of complexity. yes, some things aren't possible with the other structures, but using relations as an answer for everything is not a good way... I'm not proposing it for everything, I'm only proposing it for something where other structures have obvious setbacks. But from some reason using relations for something else than routes is immediately regarded as some obfuscated mapping method. you have to get the whole relation, just to check, if some streets are part of it. size does matter here... with the tag-on-street approach you only need the street, nothing more. The exact same argument would apply to store routes as tags on ways from now on. But that has its limitations, so we handle them with relations now. So this is another area where tags on ways are insufficient, so use relations instead. And it's an API limitation, which tries to handle relations just like ways. Relations are so different from ways that it just needs another method, yet for some reason that's not seen by the people creating the API. It's should be a method where each node, way or relation tells which relation it belongs to (without the need to download all member id's from that relation), and then there should be upload functions that just tell add/delete node, way or relation X as member of relation Y. Ben ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] zones for motorway/in town/outof town?
On Thursday 21 May 2009, Mario Salvini wrote: Even every relevant road for _ONE_ city in one relation won't work, because the membercount of a relation is limited since API 0.6. This methode won't create any benefit. Well, apparently it isn't limited, and luckily it isn't. It would be an incredibly stupid idea to limit the member count of relations. Ben ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] zones for motorway/in town/outof town?
On Thursday 21 May 2009, Radomir Cernoch wrote: Ben Laenen píše v Čt 21. 05. 2009 v 17:54 +0200: So while it seems to be a polygon vs tags on ways discussion: I wonder what people have against using relations to combine all roads in one built-up area, or one maxspeed zone, or some other kind of zone. It's really the cleanest option and allows for additional tags like a name, and it allows everything to be more clearly defined, and allows for a method which is much more flexible and allows for extended properties. How would a typical city look like? All 80 km/h roads in one relation and all 50 km/h roads in another relation? Or one relation per suburb? A typical city here would look like all roads inside the built-up area inside one relation, and when there are roads inside it with another speed limit, tag those ways with maxspeed. And for zone 30's inside built-up areas: each zone 30 will have its relation as well, and due to a simple precedence rule (a relation with zone=built-up area has less precedence than other relations) the speed limits are known there as well. And what about while countries: all rural 90 km/h roads in one relation? No, because there's no special property on those roads. Those wouldn't be tagged with anything or wouldn't be a member of any relation if there are no speed limits signed on that road. Ben ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] zones for motorway/in town/outof town?
On 21 May 2009, at 18:17, Ben Laenen wrote: On Thursday 21 May 2009, Mario Salvini wrote: Even every relevant road for _ONE_ city in one relation won't work, because the membercount of a relation is limited since API 0.6. This methode won't create any benefit. Well, apparently it isn't limited, and luckily it isn't. It would be an incredibly stupid idea to limit the member count of relations. And it would also be an incredibly stupid idea to group things that are related by their lat and lon only. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Relations/Relations_are_not_Categories Shaun smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] zones for motorway/in town/outof town?
Ed Loach e...@loach.me.uk writes: So as long as exception roads have speed tags, what's the problem? None as far as I can see, but by the time you've checked every road in the zone to see whether it is an exception, and presumably tagged it as checked so other mappers know it has been checked so they don't also need to go and check, you may as well tag it with the maxspeed. I see your point. I was thinking that by drawing a polygon around a city with 30, then the roads that you have no clue about within that will be treated by routing as 30, even though we don't know. The notion that by drawing a region one is obligated to check signs on all roads doesn't make sense to me, because the polygon/default improves the data quality from the totally untagged state. That said, I don't really care what happens, because around where I am the notion that roads without speed tags are 30 mph is a very good approximation to reality. pgpExJ95vE9Mf.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] zones for motorway/in town/outof town?
On Thursday 21 May 2009, you wrote: On 21 May 2009, at 18:17, Ben Laenen wrote: On Thursday 21 May 2009, Mario Salvini wrote: Even every relevant road for _ONE_ city in one relation won't work, because the membercount of a relation is limited since API 0.6. This methode won't create any benefit. Well, apparently it isn't limited, and luckily it isn't. It would be an incredibly stupid idea to limit the member count of relations. And it would also be an incredibly stupid idea to group things that are related by their lat and lon only. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Relations/Relations_are_not_Catego ries Again, this is not relations as categories in any way. People suggesting that really didn't think enough about it. It's combining roads that are connected to *each other*, with a special property, and the non-category like feature here is that they form one *entity*: a zone if you wish, or a built-up area. If you think this is using relations as categories, then route relations are that as well. So let's be clear here: I'm *not* proposing to add all roads with maxspeed=50 into one relation (that's a category), nor do I want all roads inside all built-up areas of one country inside one relation (that's a category as well). I want one built-up area represented as one entity: a relation (as that's how traffic legislation handles it: a single entity) (that's not a category), or all roads inside one zone 30 into one relation (that's not a category), or all roads inside a parking zone into one relation (that's not a category) More clear now? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] reverse changeset #1268604, which moved nodes across continents
Hi, Christian Kögler wrote: Please reverse the changeset #1268604: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/1268604 Done, and emailed the user to find out what he did and if we can somehow improve JOSM so that it doesn't happen more often... Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] zones for motorway/in town/out of town?
Am Thursday 21 May 2009 schrieb Ben Laenen: I'm not proposing it for everything, I'm only proposing it for something where other structures have obvious setbacks. fine. there seem to be people that are doing that. But from some reason using relations for something else than routes is immediately regarded as some obfuscated mapping method. IMO relations add a lot of complexity that's not necessary for many things. you have to get the whole relation, just to check, if some streets are part of it. size does matter here... with the tag-on-street approach you only need the street, nothing more. The exact same argument would apply to store routes as tags on ways from now on. But that has its limitations, so we handle them with relations now. So this is another area where tags on ways are insufficient, so use relations instead. you can't compare this! routes combine many different otherwise unrelated ways, they don't have to have any relations to the streets themselves. but the tagging that is discussed here describes attributes of the streets, and therefore belongs to the streets, even more when it can be done in such a simple way. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Revert changes/bug in changeset?
Thanks for the help Aun On 21/05/2009, at 08:12, Eddy Petrișor wrote: On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 4:27 AM, Aun Yngve Johnsen skipp...@gimnechiske.org wrote: Can somebody look into reverting way 33136730 and 33136657. They seem to have been buggy (only 3 nodes visible out of many) and whan I did an update of relations connected to these roads, they was updated with the version I had on my computer (no changes should have been done to the ways). Original of the two ways are version 1, from changeset 503897 by user Nighto, while my changeset 1270407 should never have updated these two ways and therefor version 2 should be reverted. Done. -- Regards, EddyP = Imagination is more important than knowledge A.Einstein ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] rendering some large maps, e.g. whole world
Holger, Great script for modifying mapnik symbology for higher/print resolution, and awesome to hear that you are using Cascadenik. Just a note that I've started to work in Mapnik core for supporting scaling based on variable resolution output: http://trac.mapnik.org/ticket/343 - Dane On Apr 18, 2009, at 3:18 AM, Holger Schöner wrote: Hello, 2009/4/18 Torsten Mohr tm...@s.netic.de I'd like to print a map of Germany as a poster. My understanding is that osm.xml is configured to create maps that look fine on a screen. But the Pixels per Inch on a computer monitor are different compared to the PPI on a printed poster. So e.g. text size, symbol size and others may not look optimal when printed. That is correct. I wrote a small script (in Ruby, BSD license) to modify an existing mapnik style by scaling all text sizes, line widths, min/maxscaledenominators etc. It worked quite well for me (using the standard openstreetmap mapnik style) when I tried it some months ago. Link to script: http://www.ancalime.de/images/scalestyle.rb One caveat, though: As the icons are included as pixel graphics, and I do not know of any possiblity to scale them using style file syntax, they are not modified. Thus they will appear much too small on a printed map. If you have better icons, you might be able to adapt the script such that it exchanges yours for the standard ones ... For an own map (which also uses cascadenic style preprocessor to produce the mapnik styles), I created a set of icons in different pixel sizes (converted by inkscape from SVG templates mainly from the OSM SVN), where the size is included as suffix in the filename. With another script (much more complex, so I cannot publish it right away; but if you are interested, I might be able to produce an excerpt of the relevant parts in about two or three weeks) I can parse these filenames, and look for appropriately sized icons in their directory. Hope this helps ... Yours, -- Holger Schoener nume...@ancalime.de ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Highways tagging vs Polygon
Am I missing something, or can we not just assume that e.g. each highway=residential has a speed limit consistent with urban areas in that country - unless explicitly tagged otherwise e.g. in the UK, highway=residential would be 30mph (48.28032km/h), unless tagged as something else. each highway=trunk, primary, secondary etc. has a default speed limit consistent with rural areas in that country - unless tagged otherwise. each highway=motorway has a default motorway speed consistent for that country. That way, we only need to tag major through routes in cities, and rural roads which do not have the usual national speed limit. The same thing applies for access restrictions. We don't need to tag that roads are accessible for cars - that should be assumed unless tagged otherwise ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Live Data - all new Data in OSM
To put OSM data live to xmpp ist very simple and I don't think it's expensive. Coming back to this a bit older topic. XMPP is server-based solution, so you will overload some server. Why not use good old and free Kazaa network, in its Skype groupchat re-incarnation, so the delivery channel would be nicely distributed? There could be be traffic limitations in Skype, so it needs checked out and tested. Also creation of skype plugin for generating and loading the feed would be maybe even easier than with xmpp. /Jaak ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Highways tagging vs Polygon
My opinion is that all defaults should be global. We should not have any country or urban / rural specific defaults. It will mean most ways will need a lot of extra tags. So we may need to improve the editors to make it easier to add all those tags. For example give the editors modes like Rural UK where they apply the defaults when new ways are created. But it will make it a lot simpler for mappers. If you see a No Cycling sign on a trunk road and want to compare it to the DB, then you don't need to think about where the country border polygon ends. None of the arguments against it (e.g. countries frequently changing the speed limit, larger planet file etc) hold any water. But my views may no be shared by the community. On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 8:43 PM, Richard Bullock rb...@cantab.net wrote: Am I missing something, or can we not just assume that e.g. each highway=residential has a speed limit consistent with urban areas in that country - unless explicitly tagged otherwise e.g. in the UK, highway=residential would be 30mph (48.28032km/h), unless tagged as something else. each highway=trunk, primary, secondary etc. has a default speed limit consistent with rural areas in that country - unless tagged otherwise. each highway=motorway has a default motorway speed consistent for that country. That way, we only need to tag major through routes in cities, and rural roads which do not have the usual national speed limit. The same thing applies for access restrictions. We don't need to tag that roads are accessible for cars - that should be assumed unless tagged otherwise ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Highways tagging vs Polygon
Richard Bullock schrieb: Am I missing something, or can we not just assume that e.g. each highway=residential has a speed limit consistent with urban areas in that country - unless explicitly tagged otherwise e.g. in the UK, highway=residential would be 30mph (48.28032km/h), unless tagged as something else. each highway=trunk, primary, secondary etc. has a default speed limit consistent with rural areas in that country - unless tagged otherwise. each highway=motorway has a default motorway speed consistent for that country. That way, we only need to tag major through routes in cities, and rural roads which do not have the usual national speed limit. The same thing applies for access restrictions. We don't need to tag that roads are accessible for cars - that should be assumed unless tagged otherwise highway=residental _isnot_ the same as build-up-area in the meaning of traffic laws. E.g. commercial- or industry-areas which are in town by traffic law/signs don't have residential roads. And thats just one example. Regards Mario ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Which software for SonyEricsson phones?
Hi, I have lots of friends with SonyEricsson phones and I have one bluetooth GPS dongle that I can give to them for making GPS logs. I have stumbled upon a rock - that is which software works on SonyEricsson phones without problems. Mainly I'm looking for software that mainly for SE K510 and SE K750 but on all other SE phones. I found some that work, but on some I can't find how to create logs, some create logs but can't save them (crash on saving), etc... Please if you have a tested software that works 100% with SonyEricsson please share it. Thank you in advance, Valent. -- http://kernelreloaded.blog385.com/ linux, blog, anime, spirituality, windsurf, wireless registered as user #367004 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org. ICQ: 2125241, Skype: valent.turkovic ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] How to contribute new tag and symbol?
Am 21.05.2009 um 18:42 schrieb Adam Schreiber: I created a symbol and some rules for the key/value tourism/ apartment. I think you need to find a different key than apartment. It seems you want to tag an extended stay hotel from the description: ... , but in the US apartment is used to describe any rental unit in a building with other rental units whether they are flats, townhomes, or a mixture of the two. That could start an endless discussion since there is practically no term which is both generic (including holiday-flat, business- apartment, serviced-apartment but excluding large-scale aparthotels and all forms of BB) without being ambiguous in a transcultural context. So I think at least for the tagging we must just choose something semi-optimal. May be that apartment was not the best compromise. Any idea of what we can use instead if it? A description for this node is here: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tags#References This is the incorrect link. oops - here is the correct one: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tags#Tourism Cheers, ingo -- Ingo Lantschner 1060 Vienna-Austria Mobil +43-664-143 84 18 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Highways tagging vs Polygon
Mario Salvini wrote: Richard Bullock schrieb: Am I missing something, or can we not just assume that e.g. each highway=residential has a speed limit consistent with urban areas in that country - unless explicitly tagged otherwise e.g. in the UK, highway=residential would be 30mph (48.28032km/h), unless tagged as something else. each highway=trunk, primary, secondary etc. has a default speed limit consistent with rural areas in that country - unless tagged otherwise. each highway=motorway has a default motorway speed consistent for that country. That way, we only need to tag major through routes in cities, and rural roads which do not have the usual national speed limit. The same thing applies for access restrictions. We don't need to tag that roads are accessible for cars - that should be assumed unless tagged otherwise highway=residental _isnot_ the same as build-up-area in the meaning of traffic laws. E.g. commercial- or industry-areas which are in town by traffic law/signs don't have residential roads. And thats just one example. BUT highway=xxx does define the type of road, and if residential is maxspeed=30 and safe_residential is maxspeed=20 by default that makes perfect sense. service roads may well have a lower speed limit, even within an 'in_town' area. It's not unusual to have a 15 mph limit on these roads because of activity such as unloading taking place on them. I think the polygon idea HAS been kicked into touch now, but there IS possibly a need for additional tag to cover the other traffic regulation information so far put forward, and using that to REPLACE highway tags ( as currently suggested on the wiki page ) is a no no! SPEED information should be handled using the existing maxspeed + defaults relating to the road type, which MAY have a country related element to them as again listed on the relevent wiki page ( Links were posted earlier ) -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk// Firebird - http://www.firebirdsql.org/index.php ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] How to contribute new tag and symbol?
On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 5:33 PM, Ingo Lantschner listen2...@lantschner.name wrote: Am 21.05.2009 um 18:42 schrieb Adam Schreiber: I created a symbol and some rules for the key/value tourism/ apartment. I think you need to find a different key than apartment. It seems you want to tag an extended stay hotel from the description: ... , but in the US apartment is used to describe any rental unit in a building with other rental units whether they are flats, townhomes, or a mixture of the two. That could start an endless discussion since there is practically no term which is both generic (including holiday-flat, business- apartment, serviced-apartment but excluding large-scale aparthotels and all forms of BB) without being ambiguous in a transcultural context. So I think at least for the tagging we must just choose something semi-optimal. May be that apartment was not the best compromise. Any idea of what we can use instead if it? I'd just call it a hotel. A description for this node is here: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tags#References This is the incorrect link. oops - here is the correct one: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tags#Tourism Cheers, ingo -- Ingo Lantschner 1060 Vienna-Austria Mobil +43-664-143 84 18 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Which software for SonyEricsson phones?
I use TrackMyJourney, which has OSM Maps, and you can use OSM based routing and search online, with live updating. I use TMJ for all my mapping at the moment. If you are happy if small amounts of data, you may want to look at GPSMid. See http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Software/Mobilephones for more information. Shaun On 21 May 2009, at 22:19, Valent Turkovic wrote: Hi, I have lots of friends with SonyEricsson phones and I have one bluetooth GPS dongle that I can give to them for making GPS logs. I have stumbled upon a rock - that is which software works on SonyEricsson phones without problems. Mainly I'm looking for software that mainly for SE K510 and SE K750 but on all other SE phones. I found some that work, but on some I can't find how to create logs, some create logs but can't save them (crash on saving), etc... Please if you have a tested software that works 100% with SonyEricsson please share it. Thank you in advance, Valent. -- http://kernelreloaded.blog385.com/ linux, blog, anime, spirituality, windsurf, wireless registered as user #367004 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org . ICQ: 2125241, Skype: valent.turkovic ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] zones for motorway/in town/outof town?
On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 6:13 PM, Ben Laenen benlae...@gmail.com wrote: A typical city here would look like all roads inside the built-up area inside one relation, and when there are roads inside it with another speed limit, tag those ways with maxspeed. Jesus. * Anyone who doesn't know what ST_Intersects means should go find out. And I mean by writing an application, not by using google * Anyone who thinks that processing relations is magically wonderful should go reimplement the translucent colouring on the cyclemap without any overlap artifacts. * Anyone who thinks that GIS Stuff is too complex for portable devices should think long and carefully about the word pre-processing and c.f. osm2pgsql, mkgmap, XAPI and every other tool we have for that already. Oh, and write an application that uses them, not just read the wiki. This has to be one of the absolute worst discussions for people asserting things they actually have no experience of doing. It's cringe-worthily painful to read. Cheers, Andy ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Highways tagging vs Polygon
On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 7:43 PM, Richard Bullock rb...@cantab.net wrote: Am I missing something, No, you're not. Cheers, Andy ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Which software for SonyEricsson phones?
I should have also said that I use a Sony Ericsson K850i. The K750i will work, though it may run slowly when using the maps as well as the logging. Shaun On 21 May 2009, at 23:00, Shaun McDonald wrote: I use TrackMyJourney, which has OSM Maps, and you can use OSM based routing and search online, with live updating. I use TMJ for all my mapping at the moment. If you are happy if small amounts of data, you may want to look at GPSMid. See http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Software/Mobilephones for more information. Shaun On 21 May 2009, at 22:19, Valent Turkovic wrote: Hi, I have lots of friends with SonyEricsson phones and I have one bluetooth GPS dongle that I can give to them for making GPS logs. I have stumbled upon a rock - that is which software works on SonyEricsson phones without problems. Mainly I'm looking for software that mainly for SE K510 and SE K750 but on all other SE phones. I found some that work, but on some I can't find how to create logs, some create logs but can't save them (crash on saving), etc... Please if you have a tested software that works 100% with SonyEricsson please share it. Thank you in advance, Valent. -- http://kernelreloaded.blog385.com/ linux, blog, anime, spirituality, windsurf, wireless registered as user #367004 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org . ICQ: 2125241, Skype: valent.turkovic ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Highways tagging vs Polygon
On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 11:08 PM, Andy Allan gravityst...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 7:43 PM, Richard Bullock rb...@cantab.net wrote: Am I missing something, No, you're not. I should expand that statement. No, you're not missing something, it's a fairly straightforward problem and your solution is fairly straightforward and practical. However, there are some people who don't know how they would process the osm data, and instead of thinking that their knowledge, skills or experience in geo-data is insufficient, they automatically think that because they can't figure it out then there's something wrong with the way that everyone else is doing things. And so we start inventing new ideas with sufficient buzzwords (I hereby patent the semantic-relation) and talk about them to death. I guess that's why it's the talk@ mailing list and not the do@ ? Cheers, Andy ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] How to contribute new tag and symbol?
Am 21.05.2009 23:37, Adam Schreiber: On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 5:33 PM, Ingo Lantschner listen2...@lantschner.name wrote: Am 21.05.2009 um 18:42 schrieb Adam Schreiber: I created a symbol and some rules for the key/value tourism/ apartment. I think you need to find a different key than apartment. It seems you want to tag an extended stay hotel from the description: ... , but in the US apartment is used to describe any rental unit in a building with other rental units whether they are flats, townhomes, or a mixture of the two. That could start an endless discussion since there is practically no term which is both generic (including holiday-flat, business- apartment, serviced-apartment but excluding large-scale aparthotels and all forms of BB) without being ambiguous in a transcultural context. So I think at least for the tagging we must just choose something semi-optimal. May be that apartment was not the best compromise. Any idea of what we can use instead if it? I'd just call it a hotel. IT don't think it qualifies as a hotel at all because you can and have to do most of the housework yourself there. What about http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vacation_rental Claudius ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Which software for SonyEricsson phones?
I am using GPSMid (http://gpsmid.sourceforge.net/) on SE W200i - I don't have bluetooth GPS, so I use it only for displaying the map (which it does quite fine), but it is also capable of using GPS (should work with bluetooth and integrated cellphine GPSes), logging tracks and making waypoints (making and exporting wayponts is something that I am using frequently, so I can confirm this surely works) Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Highways tagging vs Polygon
Nic Roets wrote: My opinion is that all defaults should be global. We should not have any country or urban / rural specific defaults. It will mean most ways will need a lot of extra tags. So we may need to improve the editors to make it easier to add all those tags. For example give the editors modes like Rural UK where they apply the defaults when new ways are created. What's the advantage over adding a Rural UK tag to the way? If we can teach it to the editor, we can define a tag for it. But it will make it a lot simpler for mappers. If you see a No Cycling sign on a trunk road and want to compare it to the DB, then you don't need to think about where the country border polygon ends. So when I see that there is _no_ no cycling sign, but a bicycle=no in the DB, what should I do? Remove it? But it might be part of the country's traffic laws (and was therefore added by someone's editor in Motorway Germany mode). How should I know? What I would consider simple is my editor displaying the following information when selecting a way: * the set of defaults applying (Rural UK) * all additional rules coming from signs etc. I don't need to know what the defaults are! If there is a sign, I add the restriction. It might or might not overwrite any defaults, Why should a mapper care? Tobias Knerr ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Canadian Triangle?
Unless aliens have started using Canada to teach their children geometry, this seems like someone uploaded something that they shouldn't have: http://openstreetmap.org/browse/way/34892338 -- Jeff Ollie ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Which software for SonyEricsson phones?
I have a W760 (has an internal GPS) and TrekBuddy works for me for logging purposes. On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 5:19 AM, Valent Turkovic valent.turko...@gmail.comwrote: Hi, I have lots of friends with SonyEricsson phones and I have one bluetooth GPS dongle that I can give to them for making GPS logs. I have stumbled upon a rock - that is which software works on SonyEricsson phones without problems. Mainly I'm looking for software that mainly for SE K510 and SE K750 but on all other SE phones. I found some that work, but on some I can't find how to create logs, some create logs but can't save them (crash on saving), etc... Please if you have a tested software that works 100% with SonyEricsson please share it. Thank you in advance, Valent. -- http://kernelreloaded.blog385.com/ linux, blog, anime, spirituality, windsurf, wireless registered as user #367004 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org. ICQ: 2125241, Skype: valent.turkovic ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- http://vaes9.codedgraphic.com ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Highways tagging vs Polygon
2009/5/22 Richard Bullock rb...@cantab.net: Am I missing something, or can we not just assume that e.g. each highway=residential has a speed limit consistent with urban areas in that country - unless explicitly tagged otherwise Actually, that wouldn't work where I live in Australia. Each state can have it's own 'default' speed limit, not the country as a whole. And in fact, different areas in the same state can have different default speed limits. For example, Queensland traffic law says that on any unsigned, built up road, the speed limit is 60 kph. Except for the SE corner, where they decided a few years ago to make it 50 kph instead. (this is about a 150 by 100 km rectangle). All the main roads leading into this area have signs pointing this out, but otherwise 50kph signs are few, you're just supposed to know. They may decide to make it cover the whole state at some point, but not yet. Stephen ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Highways tagging vs Polygon
On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 8:34 PM, Nic Roets nro...@gmail.com wrote: My opinion is that all defaults should be global. We should not have any country or urban / rural specific defaults. It will mean most ways will need a lot of extra tags. So we may need to improve the editors to make it easier to add all those tags. For example give the editors modes like Rural UK where they apply the defaults when new ways are created. and the editor should make it easier for the mapper by choosing the mode based on the area being edited. there should be something in the DB to help the editor choose whether an area is rural or urban and which country and state the user is looking at. something like... polygons and admin boundaries? But it will make it a lot simpler for mappers. If you see a No Cycling sign on a trunk road and want to compare it to the DB, then you don't need to think about where the country border polygon ends. what would be even simpler is not to have to worry about it at all, safe in the knowledge that wherever i put a road a sensible default will be chosen by whatever routing software wants to know. None of the arguments against it (e.g. countries frequently changing the speed limit, larger planet file etc) hold any water. so... frequently running bots over entire countries to change the speed limit, or adding (by my count) about 20 million new tags to the DB, or dealing with inconsistencies between different editors, etc... that doesn't hold any water? But my views may no be shared by the community. i hope they are not ;-) cheers, matt ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] How to contribute new tag and symbol?
On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 6:59 PM, Claudius claudiu...@gmx.de wrote: Am 21.05.2009 23:37, Adam Schreiber: On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 5:33 PM, Ingo Lantschner listen2...@lantschner.name wrote: Am 21.05.2009 um 18:42 schrieb Adam Schreiber: I created a symbol and some rules for the key/value tourism/ apartment. I think you need to find a different key than apartment. It seems you want to tag an extended stay hotel from the description: ... , but in the US apartment is used to describe any rental unit in a building with other rental units whether they are flats, townhomes, or a mixture of the two. That could start an endless discussion since there is practically no term which is both generic (including holiday-flat, business- apartment, serviced-apartment but excluding large-scale aparthotels and all forms of BB) without being ambiguous in a transcultural context. So I think at least for the tagging we must just choose something semi-optimal. May be that apartment was not the best compromise. Any idea of what we can use instead if it? I'd just call it a hotel. IT don't think it qualifies as a hotel at all because you can and have to do most of the housework yourself there. What about http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vacation_rental I'm not sure that fits either. I think he's desscribing someplace like: http://www.extendedstayamerica.com/ Cheers, Adam ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk-nl] Garmin op ibood
http://ibood.com/nl/nl Ik neem aan dat je hier ook de Openstreetmap kaarten op kunt gebruiken? Sander ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] http://maximumsnelheid.openstreetmap.nl/
On Wednesday 20 May 2009, Maarten Deen wrote: Ben Laenen wrote: Het feit dat er nog geen goeie manier is om te zeggen hoe de bebouwde kom of snelheidszones juist liggen is een tijdelijk probleem, want het zal eens moeten opgelost geraken. Goh, en het wordt steeds gezegd dat de snelheid op de way taggen geen oplossing is. Maar wel dat een andere methode die er niet is de oplossing is. Ik snap het niet. Bah, ik heb al lang de oplossing voor het taggen van zone 30's en gelijkaardige zones, aangezien het een vanzelfsprekende uitbreiding was op wat ik hier probeerde op te lossen: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Access_restrictions Als we relaties zullen nodig hebben voor ingewikkeldere restricties, dan kan je dat bij uitbreiding ook voor eenvoudigere maxspeed=30 restricties, samen met dan een zone=yes tag. En hokus pokus, het beheren van zones in een stad als Antwerpen wordt opeens een stuk overzichtelijker, en ik heb het al een paar keer uitgetest: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Antwerpen/Zones (waarbij je merkt dat zones een naam en soms een nummer hebben -- informatie die waardevol is om het te onderhouden later maar die verdwijnt bij tags op ways). (*) En ten slotte is het mij daarom te doen: het makkelijk beheerbaar houden van de data. We zijn in de eerste plaats mappers, en we moeten zorgen dat die data makkelijk te bewerken blijft naar de toekomst toe wanneer situaties onvermijdelijk veranderen: nieuwe verkeersborden die her en der geplaatst worden, of nieuwe verkeersregels die een heel land kunnen beïnvloeden (in Vlaanderen wordt bv. gesproken over het verlagen van de snelheid op wegen buiten de bebouwde kom van 90 naar 70 en dat kan over een paar jaar een feit zijn, dus zo exotisch is het echt niet). En dan kan je in dat geval alle wegen die getagd waren met maxspeed=90 opnieuw afgaan om te zien of ze impliciet waren, of dat er werkelijk een bord 90 stond (en moet je dat dan ook weer ergens bijhouden om ervoor te zorgen dat meerdere mappers niet dezelfde wegen gaan controleren). En ik denk dat er in België nog wel genoeg ander werk is, dat het beter is geen tijd daaraan te verspillen als het niet nodig is. Ben (*) En ik heb nog nooit een goed argument gehoord tegen het gebruik van relaties voor dingen als zone 30's en bij uitbreiding bebouwde kommen. De enige die worden gebruikt zijn: dat gaan grote relaties worden (so what? enig idee hoeveel members bepaalde routes tegenwoordig al niet hebben?) en relaties zijn te moeilijk voor beginners (maar relaties zijn gewoon één van de drie basisstructuren in OSM, kunnen we er eindelijk van uitgaan dat de tijd dat relaties nieuw waren voorbij is en dat een mapper tenminste de moeite doet om het principe van relatie te begrijpen?), en de laatste is je gaat een way vergeten, maar dat valt dan weer op te lossen met nodige tools of probleemcheckers, ook net zoals dat geburt voor routes op dit moment. ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] XAPI maar dan beter
En we zijn live :) http://xapi.openstreet.nl:8000/ De 'echte' XAPI code is nog niet geladen, maar ik weet dat mensen al zitten te springen om het volgende te proberen. Dit is Cherokee/DBSlayer voor een MonetDB5 database. Voorlopig nog geen limieten... de eerste die een kruisproduct gaat maken zonder constraints weet ik te vinden. Dat is geen loos dreigement :) Voor diegenen die in Python werken heb ik een voorbeeld bijgevoegd. Javascript gebruikers: http://xapi.openstreet.nl:8000/json/QUERY Wil je direct met MAPI of ODBC werken kun je even contact opnemen voor een persoonlijke gebruikersnaam/wachtwoord. Er draait momenteel geen update script, dat komt er wel in de loop van de dag aan. Stefan #!/usr/bin/env python import urllib sql=SELECT lat, long FROM nodes_legacy, node_tags WHERE id = node AND k = 'amenity' and v = 'atm'; query = urllib.quote(sql) print 'Original:', sql print 'Encoded:', query url = 'http://xapi.openstreet.nl:8000/python/%s'%(query) response = urllib.urlopen(url) print 'RESPONSE:', response print 'URL :', response.geturl() headers = response.info() print 'DATE:', headers['date'] print 'HEADERS :' print '-' print headers data = response.read() print 'LENGTH :', len(data) print 'DATA:' print '-' obj = eval(data) print obj ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] XAPI maar dan beter
Stefan de Konink wrote: Voorlopig nog geen limieten... de eerste die een kruisproduct gaat maken zonder constraints weet ik te vinden. Dat is geen loos dreigement :) Omdat ik me realiseerde dat niet ik maar Milo van Dogodigi de kosten draagt voor dit fantastische project. En Cherokee supereenvoudig requests kan herschrijven... word je gratis tegen jezelf beschermd, en krijg je standaard 10 resultaten terug. Aan echte SQL mensen is ook gedacht, als je de syntax kunt raden kun je hem vergroten ;) ...als dat geen service is :) Stefan ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [talk-au] Rivers
I have a nokia n810 which I have used on foot to edit a map in the middle of the day. I used osm2go: http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/osm2go/ Which is actively developed, and lets you pick an area, download the osm data for it, make offline changes (with the gps on) and then upload it later. While you walk around, it draws your current position, and a trace. If you are the sort of person who likes buying toys, then you might want to consider it (though I suspect it will be superseded soon, as the sdk for the next version is being distributed now - so if you wait a bit, then either you can get it cheaper, or get a newer shinier thing). The gps in it isn't great, but it does the job (it can take a while to get a lock). The screen is awesome (800x480, but fits in your pocket, and is transflective, so instead of washing out the screen, some of the sunlight is reflected back to work like a backlight. If you are a programmer, then you probably want one of these, otherwise, take my enthusiasm for it and halve it :) Andy On Wed, 2009-05-20 at 15:07 -0700, delta_foxt...@yahoo.com wrote: --- On Wed, 20/5/09, ed...@billiau.net ed...@billiau.net wrote: I've tried something like this in the car but daylight is too bright to see anything on the computer screen, and my sunglasses don't have a reading correction built in. You could get something like the Panasonic Toughbook which is designed to be used outdoors and in coal mines, but I'm trying to do everything on a smart phone. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [Talk-de] Über Webformular Hausnummern von POI ändern
Hallo Adrian. Am Mittwoch 20 Mai 2009 23:16:20 schrieb Adrian Stabiszewski: das Projekt ist schon in Arbeit und heißt Amenity Editor. Wir testen gerade noch die letzten Feinheiten und geben es wahrscheinlich im Laufe der nächsten Woche frei. Ich finde den Namen etwas abschreckend. Vielleicht geht es anderen anders, aber hier bei OSM habe ich den Begriff amenity überhaupt zum allerersten Mal gehört. Für einen deutschsprachigen Neueinsteiger ist der Begriff IMHO sehr wenig selbsterklärend. Zudem man ja (hoffentlich) nicht nur amenities damit bearbeiten kann sondern auch z.B. shop. Einen definitiv besseren Vorschlag hab ich zwar auch nicht, aber wenn man es wenigstens irgendwie POI-Editor oder sowas nennen könnte... Und natürlich das schon angesprochene verstecken der elementaren Tags (amenity, shop) zu Gunsten einer Drop-Down-Box, in der ein typisches Mitglied der Zielgruppe dann das richtige Element auswählen kann. Halt so ähnlich wie die JOSM-Vorlagen. Aber die Intention und der Rest des Screenshots gefällt mir gut! Gruß, Bernd -- I believe in making the world safe for our children, but not our children's children, because I don't think children should be having sex. - Jack Handey signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Artikel in Der Freitag
Ist Google Maps ein Anbieter von Geodaten? Abgesehen von MapMaker haben die doch ihre Daten nicht selbst erfasst? Auch wenn sie sie nicht selbst erfasst haben, bieten sie den Zugang zu diesen Daten (bzw. den daraus entstehenden Kacheln) für den privaten und kommerziellen Gebrauch an. ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
[Talk-de] Potlatch 1.0
Hallo, Potlatch hat jetzt eine Save-Funktion und damit einhergehend eine Moeglichkeit zur Konfliktloesung, falls jemand anders die gleichen Daten schon geaendert hat. Auch die Nutzung von Changesets soll besser geloest sein, und Kreuzungsnodes werden anders gezeichnet, damit man schnell sieht, ob man irgendwo unverbundene Strassenenden hat. Es gibt eine neue Mailingliste (englisch) fuer die Potlatch-Entwicklung: http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/potlatch-dev/ . Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Wanderwetter
Also, ich habe Schwierigkeiten, die folgenden Dinge so umzusetzen, dass sich der Relation Analyzer nicht beschwert. Ich bearbeite den lokalen Rundweg durch die Altstadt. Da die Altstadt klein ist, muss man den Weg verwinkelt anlegen, damit das nicht so auffällt. In diesem Rundweg sind auch zwei Stichstrecken, die vor- und zurückzulaufen sind. Denen habe ich bislang keine Role zuerkannt. Soll ich für diese role=forward;backward angeben? Dann führt der Rundweg über einen Platz. Hier hat das Analyseprogramm sich beschwert, dass der Weg in sich geschlossen ist. Ich hatte bisher vergessen, den Platz mit area=yes zu versehen, dass habe ich jetzt nachgeholt. Hilft das? Außerdem bin ich im Gegensatz zu Deinem Tool der Meinung, dass sich die Wege http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/25990252 und http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/28715855 treffen, und zwar im Knoten http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/281101411 -- Johannes Hüsing There is something fascinating about science. One gets such wholesale returns of conjecture mailto:johan...@huesing.name from such a trifling investment of fact. http://derwisch.wikidot.com (Mark Twain, Life on the Mississippi) ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
