Re: [Tango-L] Lead an invitation that can be ignored or faught.

2008-09-30 Thread Alexis Cousein
Sergio Vandekier wrote: The point is: if the woman decides not to blink despite Gavito's lead, [...] What do you do with a woman that does not follow the lead? Ah, but you're missing the entire point (that following the lead is not a binary proposition) - and also miss the obvious irony

[Tango-L] Lead an invitation that can be ignored or faught.

2008-09-29 Thread Sergio Vandekier
The point is: if the woman decides not to blink despite Gavito's lead, what doeshe *then* do? Run away screaming? And is she ever wrong if she decides not toblink, even if she's *not* dancing with Gavito? What do you do with a woman that does not follow the lead? It is a personal matter:

Re: [Tango-L] Lead an invitation that can be ignored or faught

2008-09-28 Thread Jack Dylan
Wow, some of you guys are tough. It seems that Sean will not only not dance with women who are not good dancers but with women who agree to dance with men who are not good dancers. It makes meĀ feel a little sorry for the nice ladies who agree to dance with me :-). Does it mean they will miss

Re: [Tango-L] Lead an invitation that can be ignored or faught

2008-09-28 Thread Ilene Marder
p.s. in tango, you have to earn the right to be on the floor and to dance with good dancers. It's just the way it is. Jack Dylan wrote: Wow, some of you guys are tough. It seems that Sean will not only not dance with women who are not good dancers but with women who agree to dance with men

Re: [Tango-L] Lead an invitation that can be ignored or faught

2008-09-28 Thread Ilene Marder
I once asked a very good, very well known dancer who had asked me to dance several times and was very complimentary, why he didn't dance with me anymore. he said... basically... look at who you are dancing with...some of them are not very good and they don't make you look very good. If I dance

Re: [Tango-L] Lead an invitation that can be ignored or faught

2008-09-28 Thread Trini y Sean (PATangoS)
--- On Wed, 9/24/08, Jack Dylan wrote: Wow, some of you guys are tough. It seems that Sean will not only not dance with women who are not good dancers but with women who agree to dance with men who are not good dancers. Hi Jack, I don't mean to be tough, punative, or to prevent other guys

Re: [Tango-L] Lead an invitation that can be ignored or faught

2008-09-24 Thread Trini y Sean (PATangoS)
--- On Tue, 9/23/08, Alexis Cousein [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Whether resist is an appropriate word is a matter of semantics. And I disagree that it's totally unkosher for her to force room or take over, at least if you understand the context (i.e. don't take the words as if they came from

Re: [Tango-L] Lead an invitation that can be ignored or faught

2008-09-24 Thread Alexis Cousein
Trini y Sean (PATangoS) wrote: Fusion and Synergy come closer to the mark. The way some are slanted against follower initiative on this list, why not propose the word assimilation? As in Resistance [pun intended] is futile; you will be assimilated. I'm all for synergy - but not dominance and

Re: [Tango-L] Lead an invitation that can be ignored or faught

2008-09-24 Thread Alexis Cousein
Trini y Sean (PATangoS) wrote: --- On Tue, 9/23/08, Alexis Cousein [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Whether resist is an appropriate word is a matter of semantics. And I disagree that it's totally unkosher for her to force room or take over, at least if you understand the context (i.e. don't take

Re: [Tango-L] Lead an invitation that can be ignored or faught

2008-09-23 Thread Trini y Sean (PATangoS)
--- On Tue, 9/23/08, Alexis Cousein [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But given a lead is an invitation, she can certainly *resist* a lead, i.e. change the timing. She can even take over the lead momentarily (which is no problem with me, but bruises the ego of some other leaders) . Given that the

Re: [Tango-L] Lead an invitation that can be ignored or faught

2008-09-23 Thread Alexis Cousein
Trini y Sean (PATangoS) wrote: No, no, no. These aren't the right words either. A follower can suggest things but she shouldn't resist or force room or take over. Whether resist is an appropriate word is a matter of semantics. And I disagree that it's totally unkosher for her to force room

[Tango-L] Lead an invitation that can be ignored or faught

2008-09-23 Thread David
In a lot of ways, this debate reminds me of the salon (or viejo) vs nuevo argument. It seems to me that people sometime forget that Tango is an art, and not something like physics, where you can possibly solve a differential equation or conduct a lab experiment to prove your point and declare

Re: [Tango-L] Lead an invitation that can be ignored or faught

2008-09-23 Thread Trini y Sean (PATangoS)
--- On Tue, 9/23/08, Anne wrote: - but the resistance is more often the ONLY response to a poor lead...the only physical means to let the leader know he is inviting a poor lead that is impossible to follow... Sean here. 1. Hi Anne, would you reconsider that position? I think ONLY is a limit

Re: [Tango-L] Lead an invitation that can be ignored or faught

2008-09-19 Thread [EMAIL PROTECTED]
My reaction to Laurie's statement was different than that of some on this list. I simply took it as a statement of fact, acknowledging that women are active participants in a dance, not puppets. Most of the time they seek to relax into the direction the leader supplies, but IN AN EMERGENCY it

Re: [Tango-L] Lead an invitation that can be ignored or faught

2008-09-18 Thread Jack Dylan
I agree with Sergio that it sounds like a joke. I've always understood and been taught that tango is all about 'lead and follow', as is every other partner dance. Surely, leading is the man's major responsibility in tango. How can the lady ignore or fight his lead unless, of course, she

[Tango-L] Lead an invitation that can be ignored or faught

2008-09-16 Thread Sergio Vandekier
Of course, the indication is just that. Like every other lead in Tango, it is an invitation, not a command. The lady may ignore it if she wishes, or even fight it. One hopes that the latter will be rare. This has to be a joke. Sergio