Re: 5.0.9.6 - Virtual folders
On Fri, 29 Apr 2011 14:17:35 -0400, Rick wrote: I am curious. You complain a lot about the Bat. No, I don't. Are you reporting the issues that bother you, I did report the rather outdated Help file more than 2 years ago, without any hope of RL taking care of it. Now, out of curiosity, I installed v5 and indeed, the Help file hasn't changed a bit. After that I wiped it of my hard disk. getting confirmations and entering them in the bug tracker? I don't use the program anymore, because I learned my lesson many years ago. From time to time I do check a new release version to check what is wrong with it now, and I'm never disappointed. It just wonders me why some people still defend it so vehemently, despite its worsening state of maintenance and development. That's all. Arjan -- I am here to lose control Current beta is 5.0.9.7 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: 5.0.9.6 - Virtual folders
On Fri, 29 Apr 2011 11:33:31 -0500, Dwight wrote: Some of their implementations are superior to anything else out there Yes, we've all heard that before. More than once... and it continues to be true. Yes. Over the years I've learned that Beta! Fanboy's reactions fall into 3 rather stereotypical categories: 1) They announce it's up and running 2) They thank the developers for their hard work and wish them a good night's sleep / happy weekend with lots of rest / a well deserved vacation. 3) When they feel TB! is being unfairly criticized they invariably argue that their beloved toy can do things that no other mail client can do. The 3d argument is, of course, true. In more than one sense. Arjan -- I am here to lose control Current beta is 5.0.9.7 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: 5.0.9.6 - Virtual folders
Hello Arjan, Saturday, April 30, 2011, 12:29:05 PM, you wrote: AdG Over the years I've learned that Beta! Fanboy's reactions fall into 3 AdG rather stereotypical categories: Let's conclude that part of this thread by adding that these reactions invariably are given in answer to postings made by what in (y)our language is called an azijnpisser, a translation from the French pisse-vinaigre. -- Best Wishes, Mark using The Bat! Version 4.2.44.2 MyMacros 1.11a zOmbie's Macros Version 0.7 Windows XP Professional/5.1 build 2600 Service Pack 3 (1 days 6:39:10) on Dual Intel Pentium III Current beta is 5.0.9.7 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: 5.0.9.6 - Virtual folders
On Sat, 30 Apr 2011 13:41:56 +0200, Mark wrote: Let's conclude that part of this thread by adding that these reactions invariably are given in answer to postings made by what in (y)our language is called an azijnpisser, a translation from the French pisse-vinaigre. 5) The best method to defend yourself against what is in yout eyes unjust or unfair criticism is to put the motives of the critic in question. Which reminds me of standard sect defense behaviour. Arjan -- I am here to lose control Current beta is 5.0.9.7 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: 5.0.9.6 - Virtual folders
Hello Arjan, Saturday, April 30, 2011, 2:02:50 PM, you wrote: AdG 5) The best method to defend yourself against what is in yout eyes AdG unjust or unfair criticism is to put the motives of the critic in AdG question. Why should I defend myself for something I am not responsible for? It is not me who wrote: ,--/ \ | I don't use the program anymore, because I learned my lesson many | years ago. From time to time I do check a new release version to | check what is wrong with it now, and I'm never disappointed. `-8--- That is typical behaviour for what I have described. Now you can call me whatever you want, I won't react anymore: someone has to stop this pointless conversation. -- Best Wishes, Mark using The Bat! Version 4.2.44.2 MyMacros 1.11a zOmbie's Macros Version 0.7 Windows XP Professional/5.1 build 2600 Service Pack 3 (1 days 7:49:38) on Dual Intel Pentium III Current beta is 5.0.9.7 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: 5.0.9.6 - Virtual folders
On Sat, 30 Apr 2011 14:37:23 +0200, Mark Partous wrote: Now you can call me whatever you want, I won't react anymore: someone has to stop this pointless conversation. 6) If you're starting to suspect you have no longer control over the conversation or feel you're are in danger of losing the plot, just make one last killer statement and announce your retirement from the discussion. Now remember this? |To: tbbeta@thebat.dutaint.com |Subject: Re: Nice new Features of Filters |From: Arjan de Groot ale...@.x.nl |Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 00:57:05 +0200 | |On Tue, 28 Jul 2009 11:03:17 +0200, Mark Partous wrote: | |[Code Rot] | |Daar geloof ik nu eens niks van! :-) | |Translated: I do not believe any of this! :-). | |OK. Read this: | |http://www.objectmentor.com/resources/articles/Principles_and_Patterns.pdf | |I'll quote just a very small part of this very interessing |document: | |Fragility. Closely related to rigidity is fragility. Fragility is |the tendency of the software to break in many places every time it |is changed. Often the breakage occurs in areas that have no |conceptual relationship with the area that was changed. Such |errors fill the hearts of managers with foreboding. Every time they |authorize a fix, they fear that the software will break in some |unexpected way. | |Now does that sound familiar? You didn't answer that message either. Arjan -- I am here to lose control Current beta is 5.0.9.7 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: 5.0.9.6 - Virtual folders
Hello Arjan, On Sat, 30 Apr 2011 12:29:05 +0200 GMT (30/Apr/11, 17:29 PM +0700 GMT), Arjan de Groot wrote: AdG 3) When they feel TB! is being unfairly criticized they invariably AdG argue that their beloved toy can do things that no other mail client AdG can do. AdG The 3d argument is, of course, true. In more than one sense. TheBat! has superior filtering, and the virtual folders are just great! - That's my favourite argument for TB!. This argument doesn't appear to be true for v5 any more, though. The main reason I came to TB! in 1999 was that it could handle different accounts seperately. Nowadays, every email client can do that. People ask me why I still use this product from the last century, and I am running out of reasons... Please help! -- Cheers, Thomas. http://thomas.fernandez.hat-gar-keine-homepage.de/ Message reply created with The Bat! 4.2.44 under Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 3 Current beta is 5.0.9.7 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: 5.0.9.6 - Virtual folders
On Thu, 28 Apr 2011 15:36:27 -0400, Rick wrote: They rewrote the program and are fixing bugs as fast as they can Yes, it's just the same old story with a long grey beard. They are reworking the program, they are trying hard to fix bugs and while they do that are introducing new bugs at at least the same rate as the fixing. They did it in v2 (with lots of unhappy customers), they repeated it in v3 (with less lots of unhappy customers), they did it again it in v4 (not so many customers were unhappy now, because lots of them had become aware of the reoccurring pattern and choose another email solution) and now they are doing it all over again in v5 (the few die-hards who still use it are still unhappy, save a handful of uncurable optimistics). Some of their implementations are superior to anything else out there Yes, we've all heard that before. More than once... Arjan -- I am here to lose control Current beta is 5.0.9.6 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: 5.0.9.6 - Virtual folders
On Friday, April 29, 2011, 7:40:54 AM, Arjan de Groot wrote: Some of their implementations are superior to anything else out there Yes, we've all heard that before. More than once... and it continues to be true. -- Dwight A. Corrin 316.303.9385 phone ahead to fax dcorrin at fastmail.fm photo galleries at http://dcorrin.smugmug.com photo blog at http://dcorrin.aminus3.com http://photos.vfxy.com/photoblogs/5882 Using IMAP with The Bat! 5.0.9.6 (BETA) on Windows Vista version 6,0 (Service Pack 2) Current beta is 5.0.9.6 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: 5.0.9.6 - Virtual folders
Hello Arjan, Friday, April 29, 2011, 2:40:54 PM, you wrote: AdG Yes, we've all heard that before. More than once... Alas, that too! And it didn't help anything or anyone (except perhaps yourself) then either. -- Best Wishes, Mark using The Bat! Version 4.2.44.2 MyMacros 1.11a zOmbie's Macros Version 0.7 Windows XP Professional/5.1 build 2600 Service Pack 3 (0 days 12:15:20) on Dual Intel Pentium III Current beta is 5.0.9.6 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: 5.0.9.6 - Virtual folders
Some of their implementations are superior to anything else out there Yes, we've all heard that before. More than once... I am curious. You complain a lot about the Bat. Are you reporting the issues that bother you, getting confirmations and entering them in the bug tracker? -- Rick When you're caffeinated, all is right with the world v5.0.9.6 (BETA) on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 3 Current beta is 5.0.9.6 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: 5.0.9.6 - Virtual folders
Friday, April 29, 2011, 2:17:35 PM, you wrote: Some of their implementations are superior to anything else out there Yes, we've all heard that before. More than once... I am curious. You complain a lot about the Bat. Are you reporting the issues that bother you, getting confirmations and entering them in the bug tracker? I use many products, and I usually never complain. I have used TB since ver 2. I never experienced major issues from one release to the next and I have never complained before. I love the product and have said so on many occasions. The filtering and virtual folders are superior to any other client. However, this release is really bad. Yes, of course we are reporting the issues. It's just that all my reported issues were found in the 5 Beta. I never thought they would put out for general release a product that had so many bugs reported in the Beta against Basic, already working functions. They basically broke so many things, all reported, that if I were a first time user of the bat and just purchased release 5, I would ask for my money back. Let's see, it have been over a month now and still no fixes for AV, hangs, virtual folders and filter bugs, all reported in the beta. I will give this release 7 more days. If they can't fix the basic things that I purchased the product for, I will be forced to leave. That's a challenge to the development team. But, I don't think they really care about one user leaving -- Best regards, Joe 5.0.9.6 (BETA) Current beta is 5.0.9.6 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: 5.0.9.6 - Virtual folders
Hi, J If they can't fix the basic things that I purchased the product J for, I will be forced to leave. That's a challenge to the J development team. But, I don't think they really care about one J user leaving They ought to. There aren't so many left. -- MfG, Altomailto:a...@treadstone79.de The Bat! 4.2.18 Christmas Edition Windows 7 6.1 build 7601 Service Pack 1 pgp25qiomtcG0.pgp Description: PGP signature Current beta is 5.0.9.7 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: 5.0.9.6 - Virtual folders
Hello Maxim, The Bat! 5.0.9.6 (BETA) is available at http://www.ritlabs.com/download/files3/the_bat/a-5/tb5096.rar I can see that you're tackling some pretty major issues but please also spend some time on virtual folder updating and negative counts. It would stop a lot of us moaning. -- Best regards, Tonymailto:t...@parkinch.co.uk The Bat! 5.0.9.6 (BETA) Current beta is 5.0.9.6 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: 5.0.9.6 - Virtual folders
I can see that you're tackling some pretty major issues but please also spend some time on virtual folder updating and negative counts. It would stop a lot of us moaning. Agreed. All the issues I see on this list worked fine in release 4. Release 5 should have never gone out the door. It just baffles me that functions that worked fine in release 4 are broke in 5 and the release still went out. I don't blame the programmers. I think management needs to be changed. Also, I truly hope I don't have to wait till release 5.1, and have to pay to get basic functions working again. So all I am asking is that you first fix all the features that worked in release 4 that you broke in release 5. Sorry fro the venting. I have been a user since ver 3 and love the product. I paid for every major upgrade. This is the first release that has caused me so much grief. You have a great product, why did you decide to put out such a buggy release You can't tell me that with all the beta users you did not know about all these issues in basic functionally. -- Best regards, Joe 5.0.9.3 (BETA) Current beta is 5.0.9.6 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: 5.0.9.6 - Virtual folders
Hello Tony, On Thu, 28 Apr 2011 13:50:13 +0100 GMT (28/Apr/11, 19:50 PM +0700 GMT), Tony Hoare wrote: TH I can see that you're tackling some pretty major issues but please TH also spend some time on virtual folder updating and negative counts. TH It would stop a lot of us moaning. I'm not moaning, this is a show stopper. I don't know why I should upgrade to v5 if virtual folders (which I use a lot) don't update automatically. In order to make message counts display correctly (a basic requirement), I suggest to just ask some college students to make it their term project. Won't cost anything, and will fix another show-stopper. -- Cheers, Thomas. http://thomas.fernandez.hat-gar-keine-homepage.de/ Message reply created with The Bat! 4.2.44 under Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 3 Current beta is 5.0.9.6 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: 5.0.9.6 - Virtual folders
I don't blame the programmers. I think management needs to be changed. I believe that the the management DOES some of the programming. A little kindness is in order. They rewrote the program and are fixing bugs as fast as they can Some of their implementations are superior to anything else out there A little venting is one thing - now we get back to finding the issues, confirming them and getting them into the bug tracker :) -- Rick Guitar, for sale Cheap...no strings attached v5.0.9.6 (BETA) on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 3 Current beta is 5.0.9.6 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
