Re: Known filter explanation

[Alexander S. Kunz]

Hello Anthony G. Atkielski & everyone else

13-Okt-2004 18:18, you wrote:

> Right now most of my filters are for specific individuals, sending their
> e-mails to specific folders.

You could do this with Virtual Folders more easily, and include the replies
you sent to that person to allow for a real "conversation thread" with that
person (or AB group).

I'm using a "known" filter to move messages from my inbox to more "global"
directories like "friends & family" (or "work" or "colleagues", or
whatever, its just to have them away from the inbox as "known"), and from
there they are picked up by Virtual Folders where needed. The VF's are set
so that they filter both where the particular person (or AB group) is
either sender or recipient.

Maybe you like the idea.

-- 
Best regards,
 Alexander (http://www.neurowerx.de - ICQ 238153981)
 using v3.0.1.33 on Windows XP Pro Service Pack 2 without smilies :-P

Deliplayer2 is playing: "Say Anything" by William Orbit
 from the 1996 album 'Strange Cargo - Hinterland'



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Re: Known filter explanation

[Anthony G. Atkielski]

Stuart Cuddy writes:

> How would you like it to work?

Well, since you ask:  Ideally for me, this filter would allow me to
match some arbitrary field(s) in the message against entries in the
address book, potentially using regular expressions, and would allow me
to move messages that match to specific folders based on some arbitrary
field in the message.  In other words, with one filter, I'd be able to
look for specific matches against the address book and file all messages
from a given person in the AB into a specific folder for that person.
So messages from John would go into a folder called (perhaps) JohnMail,
and filters from Jane would go into a folder called JaneMail, and so on.

The advantage would be that I wouldn't have to define a filter for
everyone I know and for whom I'd like to file mail in a specific folder.
Right now most of my filters are for specific individuals, sending their
e-mails to specific folders.

> If your Known Inbox was created by Upgrading from version 2, I would
> just delete the criteria part and recreate it the way you want it.
> Depending on when you upgraded there was some bugs in the process
> that caused errors.

I have a folder called "Inbox - Known" under my account, but I don't
understand what it is for or how it works.  I did create the current
tree by upgrading from version 2.

-- 
Anthony
__
Using The Bat! v3.0.1.33 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 



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Re: Known filter explanation

[Stuart Cuddy]

Hello Anthony,
Tuesday, October 12, 2004, 10:37:14 PM, you wrote:

AGA> Since nobody has stepped forward to clarify the details of how the known
AGA> filter works and it isn't documented anywhere that I can find, I can
AGA> only assume that it is top secret and not intended to actually be used.
AGA> Is this correct?

 How would you like it to work? In Version 2 of The Bat! the directory
 was automatically created if you selected use Known filter. You could
 then tell it what Address book groups to watch for names of people
 you considered Known. This was  selected in the Sorting Office.

 In the New Version 3, there is no self creating filter, so all you
 have to do is create the filter the way you would like it to operate.

 My Known inbox just uses "Address book contains sender". My Inbox is
 described as  but is called "Inbox Known" in the folder tree.
 I guess this is a hold over from the old sorting office. You can if
 you want tell it to only look in certain Address book groups.

 If your Known Inbox was created by Upgrading from version 2, I would
 just delete the criteria part and recreate it the way you want it.
 Depending on when you upgraded there was some bugs in the process
 that caused errors.

-- 
 Stuartmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Using The Bat! v3.0.1 on Windows 98 4.10 Build   A 



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Re: Known filter explanation

[Michael L. Wilson]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1


Hello Anthony,

On Wed, 13 Oct 2004, Anthony mused about "Known filter explanation"
(at least in part):

AGA> Since nobody has stepped forward to clarify the details of how the known
AGA> filter works and it isn't documented anywhere that I can find, I can
AGA> only assume that it is top secret and not intended to actually be used.
AGA> Is this correct?

That is correct.  My experience is this:  Any email that comes from
any email address in your addressbook is known and goes in the known
folder.  Other people say that only emails that comes from your
account email address (i.e.: sent by you to you) are known and go to
the known folder.

- --
Michael L. Wilson, MBA
Ecclesiastic Philosopher
Critic
Teacher

:einsteinyoyo:

==
Using The Bat! 3.0.1.33
Windows XP 5.1 (2600-Service Pack 2)

Ponder this: Coarse and violent nudity. Occasional language.

morning   dayevening
===  20:48






Spam Stats, last Week (BayesIt! 0.7.3)
Total Spam Emails: 74
Total Clean Emails: 510
BayesIT guessed right 96.27451% of the time
My email is 12.671233% spam
=

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: PGP SDK 3.2.2
Comment: ""

iQA/AwUBQWylvPvT94bCV8K0EQIPkACfQsspSSxRDqo4oRekenxUGP7pxfIAn0Zt
pY1vYWxmsg532kOu1B7hOGdR
=H7rR
-END PGP SIGNATURE-



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Known filter explanation

[Anthony G. Atkielski]

Since nobody has stepped forward to clarify the details of how the known
filter works and it isn't documented anywhere that I can find, I can
only assume that it is top secret and not intended to actually be used.
Is this correct?

-- 
Anthony
__
Using The Bat! v3.0 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 



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Re: Known filter...

[Roelof Otten]

Hallo Alexander,

On Sun, 10 Oct 2004 17:19:58 +0200GMT (10-10-2004, 17:19 +0200, where
I live), you wrote:

>>> You'd have to set up a "final" subfilter that will move the message to your
>>> "general newsletter" location if it wasn't caught by any other subfilter
>>> before.

>> I just tested this.
>> No need for a final subfilter. And no dupes.

ASK> So I've been talking crap again. Thanks for testing it.

ASK> (...though I could swear I ended up with dupes when two filters had a match
ASK> for the same message & both were "move" action filters...)

In the beginning stages of the NFS that occurred to me too. Was one
the many bugs that got cured.

-- 
Groetjes, Roelof

Dogmatism: Puppyism come to its full growth.

The Bat! 3.0.1 RC6
Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2
1 pop3 account, server on LAN



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Re: Known filter...

[Roelof Otten]

Hallo Thorvald,

On Sun, 10 Oct 2004 16:56:53 +0200GMT (10-10-2004, 16:56 +0200, where
I live), you wrote:

>> Incoming filters (including subfilters) don't care about the folder
>> where the message is.
TN> My incoming filters in v1.x and 2.x have always (at least for me)
TN> treated the mails from my Inbox only as "Incoming mail".

That's right, that changed with the NFS

-- 
Groetjes, Roelof

Say it with flowers.  Give her a Triffid

The Bat! 3.0.1 RC6
Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2
1 pop3 account, server on LAN



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Re[2]: Known filter...

[Stuart Cuddy]

Hello Thorvald,
Saturday, October 9, 2004, 12:49:55 PM, you wrote:


>> Do your other filters have "Continue Processing with other Filters"
>> turned on?

TN> Yes, sure.

I think this is your problem.

Filter 1 - Filters it to the list folder.

Filter  - if Continue processing is turned on in Filter 1 will
then send the message to the Known folder.
   - if Continue processing is turned off in Filter 1
will not be acted on.

This is different than how the OFS worked.

In other words don't turn on "Continue Processing" unless you want
further actions on the current message.

Messages not caught by Filter 1 will still be caught by the 
filter.

-- 
Best regards,
 Stuartmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Using The Bat! v3.0.1 RC6 
 On Windows 98 4.10 Build #



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Re: Known filter...

[Thorvald Neumann]

Hæ!

Saturday, October 9, 2004, 16:43, Stuart Cuddy wrote:
> Do your other filters have "Continue Processing with other Filters"
> turned on?

Yes, sure.

> If they do then this is what should happen. Yes/No.

I do not think so, at least from my old view how filters worked in
OFS. I did not set up new filters when I upgraded from v2.xx to v3.xx;
I am still using my old setup (which I had to tweak in v3).

E.g.:

I have got an email from a contact which is in my addressbook, but he
is also on a mailinglist.

I have set my filters up to first check if any email is send to a
mailinglist. If this is true, it should be moved from the inbox to a
specific list folder. If untrue, the next filter should take over. At
the end of the filter list, I have my known filter.

If now the sender is in my address book and on the same mailinglist,
the mail does get moved from the mailinglist folder to the Inbox -
Known-folder. Which wasn't the case in v1.xx and v2.xx, where it
resided happily in the folder where the first filter put it.

It seems the Known filter checks all new messages, irrevelant where
the new messages are, even when they are already moved out of the
Inbox before it is its turn.

Or do I have to specify a Source Folder for the Known filter in NFS
now?

-- 
Kveðja!
Thorvald Neumann | <http://www.aesir.de/>
| The Bat! v3.0.1 RC5
| PopFile v0.22.0
| Windows 2000 SP4 (v5.0.2195)
   
 






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Re: Known filter...

[Stuart Cuddy]

Hello Thorvald,
Saturday, October 9, 2004, 8:12:57 AM, you wrote:

TN> It is set before my SPAM-filters get active (so the known filter is
TN> the last filter for valid emails).

TN> I now and then receive some emails which get sorted to specific
TN> folders before they get in touch with the known filter, but somehow
TN> the known filter kicks in and re-sorts those mails into the known
TN> folder.

Do your other filters have "Continue Processing with other Filters"
turned on?

If they do then this is what should happen. Yes/No.

-- 
Best regards,
 Stuartmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Using The Bat! v3.0.1 RC6 
 On Windows 98 4.10 Build #



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Known filter...

[Thorvald Neumann]

Hæ!

I am experiencing something strange.

I activated a Known filter for one account which uses:

 TB! Message Filter 
beginFilter
UID: [F41F9220.01C4A5F6.4920F440.19A28B47]
Name: 
Filter: {\0D\0A\20`11`0`0`0\0D\0A}
MoveMessage folder \5C\5CMyAccountName\5CInbox\20-\20Known
IsContinue
IsActive
Ignore
IsSendQueue
endFilter

It is set before my SPAM-filters get active (so the known filter is
the last filter for valid emails).

I now and then receive some emails which get sorted to specific
folders before they get in touch with the known filter, but somehow
the known filter kicks in and re-sorts those mails into the known
folder.

Anybody else experienced this behaviour?

In v1.xx und v2.xx it worked eithout such "annoyances".

-- 
Kveðja!
Thorvald Neumann | <http://www.aesir.de/>
| The Bat! v3.0.1 RC5
| PopFile v0.22.0
| Windows 2000 SP4 (v5.0.2195)
   
 




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Re: Known filter special?

[Allister Jenks]

Monday, March 1, 2004, 1:22:12 PM, Urban wrote:

U> Sunday, February 29, 2004, Allister Jenks wrote:

>> Alas, this does not seem to be possible?

U> Play on sound on incoming mail in the folder that $known$ filters to and
U> set the $known$ filter to continue processing.

Thanks Urban.  I did not know about the sound settings at folder level.
I've set it up and will await some mail!

-- 
Cheers,
 Allister



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Re: Known filter special?

[Urban]

Sunday, February 29, 2004, Allister Jenks wrote:

> Alas, this does not seem to be possible?

Play on sound on incoming mail in the folder that $known$ filters to and
set the $known$ filter to continue processing.
-- 
Urban

A harp is a nude piano.


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Re: Known filter special?

[MAU]

Hello Deborah,

> I should read subject-lines, shouldn't I? :-)

What is a subject line? ;-)

-- 
Best regards,

Miguel A. Urech (El Escorial - Spain)
Using The Bat! v2.04.7





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Re: Known filter special?

[Deborah W]

On Sunday, February 29, 2004, 10:57:33 AM, MAU wrote:

M> Not in the Known filter :)

I should read subject-lines, shouldn't I? :-)

-- 
Deborah

We seek the truth and will endure the consequences.

Using The Bat! v2.02.3 CE on Windows 2000 5.0 Build  2195
Service Pack 4



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Re: Known filter special?

[MAU]

Hello Deborah,

> There's an option to "Play sound" on the Actions tab of the filter,
> which includes the option to play the wav file of your choice 

Not in the Known filter :)

-- 
Best regards,

Miguel A. Urech (El Escorial - Spain)
Using The Bat! v2.04.7





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Re: Known filter special?

[Peter Meyns]

Hi Deborah,

on Sun, 29 Feb 2004 09:59:55 +GMT, you wrote:

DW> On Sunday, February 29, 2004, 6:09:05 AM, Allister Jenks wrote:

AJ>> Yes, I know it *is* special, but I had an idea that I wanted a
AJ>> sound to be played when something was filtered by it - i.e. some
AJ>> *real* email has arrived.

DW> There's an option to "Play sound" on the Actions tab of the filter,
DW> which includes the option to play the wav file of your choice

I can't find this for the built-in $known$ filters or folders...

As a work around, you can create your own "Known" folder with all the
options of a normal folder including sound.

-- 
Cheers
Peter

The irony of life is that no one gets out alive...





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Re: Known filter special?

[Deborah W]

On Sunday, February 29, 2004, 6:09:05 AM, Allister Jenks wrote:

AJ> Yes, I know it *is* special, but I had an idea that I wanted a
AJ> sound to be played when something was filtered by it - i.e. some
AJ> *real* email has arrived.

There's an option to "Play sound" on the Actions tab of the filter,
which includes the option to play the wav file of your choice - is
that what you're looking for?

-- 
Deborah

No one can liberate the slave who loves his chains.

Using The Bat! v2.02.3 CE on Windows 2000 5.0 Build  2195
Service Pack 4



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Known filter special?

[Allister Jenks]

Hello TBUDLers,

Yes, I know it *is* special, but I had an idea that I wanted a sound to
be played when something was filtered by it - i.e. some *real* email has
arrived.

Alas, this does not seem to be possible?

-- 
Cheers,
 Allister



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Re: "BCC to this address" on Account level (was: UnexpectedBehavior of "Known" Filter)

[Thomas Fernandez]

Hello kristina,

On Mon, 30 Jun 2003 14:46:53 +0100 GMT (30/06/03, 20:46 +0700 GMT),
kristina wrote:

> I'm not sure if I'm understanding this correctly.  But if I am then
> TB! already does this (doesn't it)!

No. ;-)

> I have one folder (well several actually) and all outgoing & incoming
> email go to that one folder - it happens to be my incoming folder but
> it could just as easily be a common folder.  (& in hindsight I think I
> would have preferred to use a common folder... but anyway I digress!)

> I have filters setup to send email to and from one person to one
> folder and then that folder is viewed using threads.  That way I can
> easily see how an email conversation has developed.

The purpose of BCC'ing oneself is that if you send messages from
another computer (in the office, for example), you may still want to
have the complete conversation on your main (home) computer.
Therefore, you need to actually download the messages you sent out
with the office computer onto your home computer, and this is only
possible if they are in the inbox of your ISP account. This is
achieved by BCC'ing yourself.

If you use only one computer, you will have no need to BCC to
yourself.

-- 

Cheers,
Thomas.

Moderator der deutschen The Bat! Beginner Liste.

Money can't buy happiness but it can certainly rent it for a couple of
hours.

Message reply created with The Bat! 1.63 Beta/5
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Re: "BCC to this address" on Account level (was: UnexpectedBehavior of "Known" Filter)

[kristina]

On Sun, 29 Jun 2003, at 12:19:34 [GMT +0700] tbudl wrote:

TF> On Sat, 28 Jun 2003 10:35:44 -0500 GMT (28/06/03, 22:35 +0700 GMT),
TF> Greg Strong wrote:

>> I want to keep running dialog of all email correspondence. I think
>> having incorporated into the interface would make it more user
>> friendly.

TF> I have a seconder! :-)

I'm not sure if I'm understanding this correctly.  But if I am then
TB! already does this (doesn't it)!

I have one folder (well several actually) and all outgoing & incoming
email go to that one folder - it happens to be my incoming folder but
it could just as easily be a common folder.  (& in hindsight I think I
would have preferred to use a common folder... but anyway I digress!)

I have filters setup to send email to and from one person to one
folder and then that folder is viewed using threads.  That way I can
easily see how an email conversation has developed.

Please correct me if I have misunderstood the request.

-- 
bfn
~kristina
__
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"BCC to this address" on Account level (was: Unexpected Behavior of"Known" Filter)

[Thomas Fernandez]

Hello Greg,

On Sat, 28 Jun 2003 10:35:44 -0500 GMT (28/06/03, 22:35 +0700 GMT),
Greg Strong wrote:

> I want to keep running dialog of all email correspondence. I think
> having incorporated into the interface would make it more user
> friendly.

I have a seconder! :-)

Now let me find this wishlist URL...

-- 

Cheers,
Thomas.

Moderator der deutschen The Bat! Beginner Liste.

There is no gravity. The Earth sucks.

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Re: Unexpected Behavior of "Known" Filter

[Bill McCarthy]

On Fri 27-Jun-03 11:06pm -0400, Mark Wieder wrote:

BM>>   I have AutoCompletion turned
BM>> off.  I only occasionally use local delivery (I use Alt-N to get me
BM>> to the setting page, so Alt-NA toggles it) - and I often like
BM>> to edit the outbox for testing.

> Maybe I'm being dense today (it's been a long day), but I don't see
> how having your own address in the AB facilitates any of this.

Nah, I just wasn't clear in the 1st sentence and wrong in the 2nd.

Without AutoCompletion turned on, wouldn't one need to type in their
email address each time (w/o using the AB)?

My second sentence was apparently based on a bad test.  I have
deferred delivery on.  Local delivery appeared to be ignoring that
setting - I can't duplicate that behavior today in either 1.62r or the
current beta.  I don't keep local delivery on because I'm the only
user, on my network, using TB.

-- 
Best regards,
Bill




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Re: Unexpected Behavior of "Known" Filter

[Greg Strong]

Hello Thomas,

On Sat, 28 Jun 2003, at 18:45:10 GMT +0700 (6/28/2003, 6:45 AM -0500 GMT
here), you wrote in :

> But. If you use AB templates (which I do a lot), you have to add it to
> every single template. Well, I did this when I set them up, but I
> still thought it would be easier on account level.

Yes.

> But it is not really a very important point. ;-)

I think so. I have 3 main email accounts. One is for mail lists such as
this one. The second is for personal email. The last is for my
university account. BCC on mail list account is not needed because it
should be returned. On the other hand the personal account with a BCC at
the account level would be nice because simple setup and only 1 set of
filters on the inbound side.

On the university account I set up BCC in new and reply templates at the
account level. I want to keep running dialog of all email
correspondence. I think having incorporated into the interface would
make it more user friendly.

-- 
Best regards,

Greg Strong 
TB! v1.63 Beta/11 on Windows XP Service Pack 1





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Re: Unexpected Behavior of "Known" Filter

[Thomas Fernandez]

Hello Coyle306,

On Sat, 28 Jun 2003 06:46:01 -0400 GMT (28/06/03, 17:46 +0700 GMT),
Coyle306 wrote:

TF>> In TB, I have to add the BCC macro to each template. I wish I
TF>> could activate such a feature on Account level, as I could in
TF>> Netscape.

TF>> Any seconders?

> Nah. It's pretty easy to add it as a macro in your 3 basic templates.

But. If you use AB templates (which I do a lot), you have to add it to
every single template. Well, I did this when I set them up, but I
still thought it would be easier on account level.

But it is not really a very important point. ;-)

-- 

Cheers,
Thomas.

Moderator der deutschen The Bat! Beginner Liste.

Der Brite gibt sein Geld pfundweise aus.

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Unexpected Behavior of "Known" Filter

[Coyle306]

>> I bcc: myself all the time.  Doesn't everybody?

TF> I used to. Namely when I was replying to private mails while I was in
TF> the office; when I bcc'ed myself, I could download my replies at home
TF> as well. I started this practice when I was still using Netscape Mail,
TF> and that client has a nice option: "Automatically send a copy of each
TF> message to this address:...". In TB, I have to add the BCC macro to
TF> each template. I wish I could activate such a feature on Account
TF> level, as I could in Netscape.

TF> Any seconders?

Nah. It's pretty easy to add it as a macro in your 3 basic templates.

I bcc: myself because I frequently get into back and forth discussions
and  I  like  seeing  my  messages in the inbox, chronologically, with
every one else's responses.



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Re: Unexpected Behavior of "Known" Filter

[Mark Wieder]

Bill-

Friday, June 27, 2003, 12:21:56 PM, you wrote:

BM> We all work a little differently, Mark.



BM>   I have AutoCompletion turned
BM> off.  I only occasionally use local delivery (I use Alt-N to get me
BM> to the setting page, so Alt-NA toggles it) - and I often like
BM> to edit the outbox for testing.

Maybe I'm being dense today (it's been a long day), but I don't see
how having your own address in the AB facilitates any of this.

-Mark Wieder

 Using The Bat! v1.63 Beta/7 on Windows 2000 5.0 Build 2195 Service Pack 2
-- 



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Re: Unexpected Behavior of "Known" Filter

[Thomas Fernandez]

Hello Coyle306,

On Fri, 27 Jun 2003 07:07:12 -0400 GMT (27/06/03, 18:07 +0700 GMT),
Coyle306 wrote:

> I bcc: myself all the time.  Doesn't everybody?

I used to. Namely when I was replying to private mails while I was in
the office; when I bcc'ed myself, I could download my replies at home
as well. I started this practice when I was still using Netscape Mail,
and that client has a nice option: "Automatically send a copy of each
message to this address:...". In TB, I have to add the BCC macro to
each template. I wish I could activate such a feature on Account
level, as I could in Netscape.

Any seconders?

-- 

Cheers,
Thomas.

Moderator der deutschen The Bat! Beginner Liste.

Many people quit looking for work when they find a job.

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Re: Unexpected Behavior of "Known" Filter

[Bill McCarthy]

On Fri 27-Jun-03 1:09pm -0400, Mark Wieder wrote:

> I test-send myself stuff all the time, too, but I never considered
> putting myself in the AB. Since I have local delivery turned on,
> sending mail to my local accounts is instantaneous. Then I have some
> external webmail accounts so I can see the kludges.

We all work a little differently, Mark.  I have AutoCompletion turned
off.  I only occasionally use local delivery (I use Alt-N to get me
to the setting page, so Alt-NA toggles it) - and I often like
to edit the outbox for testing.

-- 
Best regards,
Bill



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Re: Unexpected Behavior of "Known" Filter

[Mark Wieder]

Bill-

I test-send myself stuff all the time, too, but I never considered
putting myself in the AB. Since I have local delivery turned on,
sending mail to my local accounts is instantaneous. Then I have some
external webmail accounts so I can see the kludges.

-Mark Wieder

 Using The Bat! v1.63 Beta/7 on Windows 2000 5.0 Build 2195 Service Pack 2
-- 



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Unexpected Behavior of "Known" Filter

[Coyle306]

MW> Of course, at this point I suppose I should bring up the question of
MW> why your own address is in your address book? If it weren't then the
MW> correct filtering event would have occurred...

I bcc: myself all the time.  Doesn't everybody?

I   appreciate  the responses on this subject, and I think I'll follow
the advice to use a normal filter.  Thanks to everybody.

Chris Coyle



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Re: Unexpected Behavior of "Known" Filter

[Bill McCarthy]

On Fri 27-Jun-03 1:23am -0400, Dave Kennedy wrote:
> On Thursday, June 26, 2003 7:54 PM, Bill wrote:

>> I don't like the Know filter at all and don't use it because of its
>> bugs on replying from Inbox-Known.

> What bugs?

There's an inconvenience (no folder templates).  The bugs are related.
(1) It fails to use the account templates like other folders that
don't override them.  (2) If the sender is not in any AB group, the
group of the To field is used - this could be embarrassing :-)

There's really no need to use Inbox-Known.  It much more powerful to
use a normal filter than the restrictive  filter - prossibly an
artifact of days before normal filters could do AB filtering.

-- 
Best regards,
Bill



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Re: Unexpected Behavior of "Known" Filter

[Bill McCarthy]

On Fri 27-Jun-03 2:34am -0400, Mark Wieder wrote:

> Of course, at this point I suppose I should bring up the question of
> why your own address is in your address book? If it weren't then the
> correct filtering event would have occurred...

Well I have to admit that I have my address in my Family group of the
AB - the handle is 'me' :-)  I use it's templates for testing and
uncheck them to test the Family group templates.

I bet it's not that uncommon.

It's best, IMHO, to avoid the  filter.  If one wants to check
for people in the address book - but not one's own address, one can
use a "normal" filter for that and choose the destination (instead of
no choice but Inbox-Known).

-- 
Best regards,
Bill



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Re: Unexpected Behavior of "Known" Filter

[alists]

Hello Mark,

Thursday, June 26, 2003, 11:34:52 PM, you wrote:



MW> Of course, at this point I suppose I should bring up the question of
MW> why your own address is in your address book? If it weren't then the
MW> correct filtering event would have occurred...

well I have to admit i send stuff to myself all the time... for
lots of weird reasons... so this is not unusual! :)

-- 

Best regards,
 alistsmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]




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Re: Unexpected Behavior of "Known" Filter

[Mark Wieder]

Coyle306-

Thursday, June 26, 2003, 3:13:24 PM, you wrote:


C> spammer had inserted _my address_, which _is_ in my address book.

Of course, at this point I suppose I should bring up the question of
why your own address is in your address book? If it weren't then the
correct filtering event would have occurred...

-Mark Wieder

 Using The Bat! v1.63 Beta/7 on Windows 2000 5.0 Build 2195 Service Pack 2
-- 



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Re: [bat] Re: Unexpected Behavior of "Known" Filter

[Dave Kennedy]

On Thursday, June 26, 2003 7:54 PM, Bill wrote:
BM> I don't like the Know filter at all and don't use it because of its
BM> bugs on replying from Inbox-Known.

What bugs?

Dave Kennedy




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Re: Unexpected Behavior of "Known" Filter

[Bill McCarthy]

On Thu 26-Jun-03 6:13pm -0400, Coyle306 wrote:

> Quoting  from  the Sorting Office window: "The Known filter allows you
> to separate incoming mail by the presence of the _sender's address_ in
> your address book" (My emphasis)

Right - notice that it does not say "From" address - it says "Sender"
which is more than just the From address.

> It  appears to me that the Known filter was not triggering just on the
> sender's  address  -  the  "From:" field - but also on the "Reply-To:"
> and/or   "X-RCPT-TO:"   field   in  the  spam's header, into which the
> spammer had inserted _my address_, which _is_ in my address book.

It appears to use the same logic as used by the Sender in the Filter
strings.  That is, it checks the From, Sender and Reply-To fields.

I ran a test and could not confirm your claim that it also checks the
X-RCPT-TO field (note: I did this check using the Sender in the
"filtering strings").

> The  Known  filter  should trigger _only_ on the "From:" field, not on
> any  other  field  in the header, right? Otherwise, a spammer - or any
> "unknown"  - could stick a recipient's address in another header field
> and  defeat  the filter (assuming the recipient has his own address in
> his AB).

I don't like the Know filter at all and don't use it because of its
bugs on replying from Inbox-Known.  However, I find the current
behavior of the "filtering strings" using Sender to be quite useful.

> Or,  is  the  Known  filter intended to trigger whenever an address in
> one's address book is _anywhere_ in the incoming headers?

Can you demonstrate that behavior?  Simply send yourself an email
without your address in the From, To, Reply-To or Sender fields.  Put
it in a X-Test field.  Let us know if you're right.

If you can't do that through your ISP, simply copy and modify an
existing email, place it in your inbox and manually refilter your
inbox.

-- 
Best regards,
Bill



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Unexpected Behavior of "Known" Filter

[Coyle306]

MM> Hmmm ... what should not work which way? It seems to me that if an
MM> email  is  received  with a 'from address' that is in your address
MM> book  it  should be sent to the 'known' box. Just out of curiosity
MM> ... what would you expect to work differently?

No.  That's  my point, it _wasn't_ received with a 'from address' that
was  in  my  address  book. It was received with a 'from address' that
_was not_ in my AB.

Quoting  from  the Sorting Office window: "The Known filter allows you
to separate incoming mail by the presence of the _sender's address_ in
your address book" (My emphasis)

It  appears to me that the Known filter was not triggering just on the
sender's  address  -  the  "From:" field - but also on the "Reply-To:"
and/or   "X-RCPT-TO:"   field   in  the  spam's header, into which the
spammer had inserted _my address_, which _is_ in my address book.

The  Known  filter  should trigger _only_ on the "From:" field, not on
any  other  field  in the header, right? Otherwise, a spammer - or any
"unknown"  - could stick a recipient's address in another header field
and  defeat  the filter (assuming the recipient has his own address in
his AB).

Or,  is  the  Known  filter intended to trigger whenever an address in
one's address book is _anywhere_ in the incoming headers?

Chris Coyle







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Re: Unexpected Behavior of "Known" Filter

[MikeD]

Hello Coyle306,

Thursday, June 26, 2003, 6:07:42 AM, you wrote:


C> All  I  could think of was that the spammer's sticking _my_ address in
C> the  "Reply-To:"  and/or  the  "X-RCPT-TO:"  somehow  fooled the Known
C> filter, since _my_ address was in my address book.

C> Sure  enough,  when  I  deleted my address from the address book, TB
C> stopped sending it to Inbox\Known, and put it in Inbox\Unknown.

C> Seems to me it shouldn't work that way.

Hmmm ... what should not work which way? It seems to me that if an
email is received with a 'from address' that is in your address book it
should be sent to the 'known' box. Just out of curiosity ... what would
you expect to work differently?

-- 
Best regards,
 MikeDmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Using The Bat! v1.63 Beta/7 on Windows ME 4.90 Build  3000
 

---
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Unexpected Behavior of "Known" Filter

[Coyle306]

I'm  using  1.63  Beta  11  with Windows 98. I have the "Known" filter
activated,  and  I have it move "knowns" to a sub-folder of the Inbox,
"Inbox\Known".  Otherwise, they go to another sub-folder of the Inbox,
"Inbox\Unknown".   Worked   great   until   I   received  a  spam,  in
"Inbox\Known", from someone who was definitely not in my address book.

Here are the headers:

==
Received: from iafitim [216.247.132.30] by mail.henrybeaver.com
  (SMTPD32-6.06) id A81FE8D10056; Wed, 25 Jun 2003 14:21:19 -0400
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "Nolan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Increase your sizelo
X-Priority: 3
Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 13:17:48 -0200
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="=_NextPart_003_0057_XPOCVLVJ.UQFTKQVS"
X-RCPT-TO: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
X-UIDL: 346621659
Status: U
==

All  I  could think of was that the spammer's sticking _my_ address in
the  "Reply-To:"  and/or  the  "X-RCPT-TO:"  somehow  fooled the Known
filter, since _my_ address was in my address book.

Sure  enough,  when  I  deleted my address from the address book, TB
stopped sending it to Inbox\Known, and put it in Inbox\Unknown.

Seems to me it shouldn't work that way.

Chris Coyle












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Re: Known filter question

[Thomas Fernandez]

Hello Allie,

On Fri, 14 Feb 2003 19:15:22 -0500 GMT (15/02/03, 07:15 +0700 GMT),
Allie Martin wrote:

> I wonder about the usefulness of the filter myself. I guess it's a
> means of making such a filtering method more apparent to the passing
> user. However, an experienced user will likely not need it and will
> more likely be impeded by it's short-comings.

I use it. The problem is that it works only for incoming mail, and I
have to set up another filter for outgoing mail to filter into the
same folder (I always like to keep corresponsdence togther as
threads).

And yes, it helps indentifying spam, it is the last filter. Anything
incoming that was not filtered into other folders by now, will be sent
to "Known", and what remains in the Inbox is almost exclusively spam.

I am not hampered by any short-comings here. It is a simple and
straight-forward thing. What should I be missing?

-- 

Cheers,
Thomas.

Moderator der deutschen The Bat! Beginner Liste.

As of 1992, they'll be called European Economic Community fries.

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Re: Known filter question

[Allie Martin]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

In <[EMAIL PROTECTED]">mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Richard Wakeford [RW] wrote:'

>>  As a part of spam filtering.

RW> Ah, Spampal works a treat for me thanks.

I use a combination of both to help with dealing with false
positives. I still filter all my known mail. I then filter the
only the remaining mail for Spampal's spam header.

I started using SpamPal since most of my spam is now addressed
directly to me. This wasn't the case in the past where I could
safely assume that once a message was addressed directly to me, it
was very unlikely to be spam.

- --
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Re: Known filter question

[Richard Wakeford]

Hello Allie,

On Fri, 14 Feb 2003 at 19:15:22[GMT -0500](which was 00:15 where I
live) you wrote:

>  As a part of spam filtering.

Ah, Spampal works a treat for me thanks.

> I wonder about the usefulness of the filter myself. I guess it's a
> means of making such a filtering method more apparent to the passing
> user. However, an experienced user will likely not need it and will
> more likely be impeded by it's short-comings.

So I'm not that stupid after all. I'll just stick with my filters that
work very well thanks :)

-- 
Best regards,
Richard

| Using The Bat! 1.63 Beta/6 & SpamPal
| Windows 2000 (build 2195), version 5.0 Service Pack 3
| and using the best browser: Opera7



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Re: Known filter question

[Allie Martin]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

In <[EMAIL PROTECTED]">mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Richard Wakeford [RW] wrote:'

RW> I've often wondered at the usefulness of the "Known" folder and,
RW> noticing that you can only choose one folder to send messages to, I've
RW> not been able to see what use it has. Now you say that you should
RW> create a different filter and not use "known". All my messages go to
RW> the inbox anyway so why create a filter to send them there?

As a part of spam filtering.

RW> Oh heck it's getting late and it's been a long day. It's just that, at
RW> the top of the "Known" filter, it says it will allow you to separate
RW> incoming mail by address but how can that be done if only one folder
RW> can be selected?

I wonder about the usefulness of the filter myself. I guess it's a
means of making such a filtering method more apparent to the passing
user. However, an experienced user will likely not need it and will
more likely be impeded by it's short-comings.

- --
  -=] allie_M [=-  {List Moderator}
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Re: Known filter question

[Richard Wakeford]

Hello Allie,

On Fri, 14 Feb 2003 at 06:19:52[GMT -0500](which was 11:19 where I
live) you wrote:

> To get things working the way you wish, I suggest using the INBOX as
>your Inbox-Known folder, deactivate the Inbox-Known filter, and
>creating a new incoming filter with the following:

>Destination Folder: Inbox
>String: .
>Location: Kludges
>Presence: Yes

> Options:
>Continue processing with other filters.

> Advanced:
>Enable 'Addresses must be listed in Address book:'
>Items: Sender

>You have just manually created a filter that basically does what the
>Inbox-Known filter does.

I've often wondered at the usefulness of the "Known" folder and,
noticing that you can only choose one folder to send messages to, I've
not been able to see what use it has. Now you say that you should
create a different filter and not use "known". All my messages go to
the inbox anyway so why create a filter to send them there?

Oh heck it's getting late and it's been a long day. It's just that, at
the top of the "Known" filter, it says it will allow you to separate
incoming mail by address but how can that be done if only one folder
can be selected?

-- 
Best regards,
Richard

| Using The Bat! 1.63 Beta/6 & SpamPal
| Windows 2000 (build 2195), version 5.0 Service Pack 3
| and using the best browser: Opera7



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Re: Known filter question

[Allie Martin]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

In <[EMAIL PROTECTED]">mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Kristina [K] wrote:'

K> Since enabling the Known filter, everything does get filtered into
K> the Known box, but it doesn't carry on, although I have ticked
K> continue processing with other filters.

K> But it isn't happening. (I have been and changed all the iterations
K> of inbox to $KNOWN$)

K> I'm sure its something obvious that I'm missing and am hoping that
K> someone can help.

   For messages to continue being processed with other filters, they
   cannot be moved by a filter to another folder. They have to remain in
   the INBOX to continue being processed. In your case, your Inbox-Known
   filter is moving the messages to the Inbox-Known folder. When a
   filter match occurs, all of the filters actions are done on the
   message before any further processing on the message occurs.

   To get things working the way you wish, I suggest using the INBOX as
   your Inbox-Known folder, deactivate the Inbox-Known filter, and
   creating a new incoming filter with the following:

   Destination Folder: Inbox
   String: .
   Location: Kludges
   Presence: Yes

Options:
   Continue processing with other filters.

Advanced:
   Enable 'Addresses must be listed in Address book:'
   Items: Sender

   You have just manually created a filter that basically does what the
   Inbox-Known filter does.

K> I love this program and since joining this list I feel like I have a
K> brand new program to play with!!

   This is good to hear. :)  There's really a whole lot to TB!'s
   usefulness.

- --
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Known filter question

[kristina]

Hello TBUDL listers,

  Since joining this list (only a couple of weeks
  ago) I have learnt heaps, and my only regret is
  not subscribing sooner..!

  Also since joining I have learnt what the Known
  folder is for... - before I wasn't really sure
  so didn't investigate (more fool me!)

  So I am now taking advantage of the Known
  folder, previously I had all my filters working
  like this

  incoming mail
  if from someone on a filter gets filtered as
  follows:

  inbox/name of person (this can sometimes be 2 or
  3 deep)

  Since enabling the Known filter, everything does
  get filtered into the Known box, but it doesn't
  carry on, although I have ticked continue
  processing with other filters.

  But it isn't happening.  (I have been and
  changed all the iterations of inbox to $KNOWN$)

  I'm sure its something obvious that I'm missing
  and am hoping that someone can help.

  I love this program and since joining this list
  I feel like I have a brand new program to play
  with!!

-- 
bfn
~kristina

[EMAIL PROTECTED]
kfxdesign.net
__
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Re: 'Known' Filter and adding address book

[Roelof Otten]

Hallo Doug,

On Wed, 2 Oct 2002 22:25:07 +0100GMT (2-10-02, 23:25 +0200GMT, where I
live), you wrote:

DW>>> I can't see how to add an address book to this.
>> You can't add address books to the known filter. It only uses the
>> default AB.

DW> They are all in one address book. The known filter has a big blank
DW> window with the heading 'Address books to check against.'

Then there's something gone awry in your setup. Over here it shows my
address book with all groups inside it.

Oops! Just found out it works like a breeze to add new address book to
the known filter. I was checking the known filter and I opened the
address book, I created a new address book with a new group in it and
went back to the sorting office and behold, the new book was
mentioned in the filter.
I'm using TB 1.61 under W98 with an inactive known filter.

-- 
Groetjes, Roelof



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Re: 'Known' Filter and adding address book

[Doug Weller]

Hi Roelof,

Wednesday, October 2, 2002, 9:58:29 PM, you wrote:

> Hallo Doug,

> On Wed, 02 Oct 2002 21:32:18 +0100GMT (2-10-02, 22:32 +0200GMT, where
> I live), you wrote:

DW>> I can't see how to add an address book to this.

> You can't add address books to the known filter. It only uses the
> default AB.
> I can remember discussions on this list why somebody might want to
> use multiple AB's. But most (if not all) advantages could be reached
> by using multiple groups in an AB.
> So why not place all of your contacts into one AB?

They are all in one address book. The known filter has a big blank
window with the heading 'Address books to check against.' I assume
since there is nothing there, that explains why it doesn't seem to be
checking anything.

I've tried creating a new address book Jan, that makes no difference.

Thanks anyway!.

Doug

-- 
 Doug Weller  Moderator, sci.archaeology.moderated
 Submissions to:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Doug's Archaeology Site: http://www.ramtops.demon.co.uk
 Co-owner UK-Schools mailing list: email me for details



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Re: 'Known' Filter and adding address book

[Roelof Otten]

Hallo Doug,

On Wed, 02 Oct 2002 21:32:18 +0100GMT (2-10-02, 22:32 +0200GMT, where
I live), you wrote:

DW> I can't see how to add an address book to this.

You can't add address books to the known filter. It only uses the
default AB.
I can remember discussions on this list why somebody might want to
use multiple AB's. But most (if not all) advantages could be reached
by using multiple groups in an AB.
So why not place all of your contacts into one AB?


-- 
Groetjes, Roelof



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Re:'Known' Filter and adding address book

[Jan Rifkinson]

Hi Doug.

At 4:32 PM on Wednesday, October 02, 2002 you
[DW] wrote the following about ''Known'
Filter and adding address book':

DW> I can't see how to add an address book to this. Nothing in the
DW> help file, couldn't find anything in the archives useful.
DW> I'm on version 1.61 at the moment, haven't used any betas for a
DW> while.

  How about opening the Address Book.
  Click on File
  Click on New Address Book

  Does that help?

-- 
Jan Rifkinson
Ridgefield, CT USA
TB! V1.61/W2K_SP3
ICQ 41116329



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'Known' Filter and adding address book

[Doug Weller]

I can't see how to add an address book to this. Nothing in the help file, couldn't 
find anything in the archives useful.
I'm on version 1.61 at the moment, haven't used any betas for a while.

Thanks.

Doug
-- 
 Doug's Archaeology Site http://www.ramtops.demon.co.uk


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Re: "Known" filter

[Roelof Otten]

Hello mocha9mail,

On Thu, 2 May 2002 20:01:24 -0400GMT (3-5-02, 2:01 +0200GMT, where I
live), you wrote:

mmc>>> In the Account filters, there is a  filter for the Incoming
mmc>>> mail.  How can I add that same  filter to Sent mail?
>> I think you can't.
>> However, you can create an outgoing filter that moves mail addressed
>> to recipients in your address book to whatever folder you'd like to.
mmc> How do I do that -- without specifying each address in my address book
mmc> in the Filtering String?

Build an outgoing filter with the appropriate action.
Use @ as condition in the outgoing address (that'll always be present)
Go to the advanced tab
Scroll down till you find 'Address(es) must be present in Address Book
Check that option
Mark recipient as item
If necessary choose an address book group

-- 
Groetjes, Roelof



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Re[2]: "Known" filter

[mocha9mail]

Thursday, May 02, 2002, Roelof Otten [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> On Thu, 2 May 2002 01:28:37 -0400GMT (2-5-02, 7:28 +0200GMT, where I
> live), you wrote:

mmc>> In the Account filters, there is a  filter for the Incoming
mmc>> mail.  How can I add that same  filter to Sent mail?

> I think you can't.
> However, you can create an outgoing filter that moves mail addressed
> to recipients in your address book to whatever folder you'd like to.

How do I do that -- without specifying each address in my address book
in the Filtering String?

Thanks in advance

JM


Using The Bat! 1.60c
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Re: "Known" filter

[Roelof Otten]

Hello mocha9mail,

On Thu, 2 May 2002 01:28:37 -0400GMT (2-5-02, 7:28 +0200GMT, where I
live), you wrote:

mmc> In the Account filters, there is a  filter for the Incoming
mmc> mail.  How can I add that same  filter to Sent mail?

I think you can't.
However, you can create an outgoing filter that moves mail addressed
to recipients in your address book to whatever folder you'd like to.

-- 
Groetjes, Roelof



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"Known" filter

[mocha9mail]

In the Account filters, there is a  filter for the Incoming
mail.  How can I add that same  filter to Sent mail?


Thanks in advance

JM


Using The Bat! 1.60c
Under Windows 98 4.10 Build   A 



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Re: KNOWN Filter

[Roelof Otten]

Hello Carsten,

On Sun, 14 Apr 2002 23:13:57 -0400GMT (15-4-02, 5:13 +0200GMT, where I
live), you wrote:

CGS> Why is an email with the follwing header not moved to my
CGS> INBOX-KNOWN (Filter is active), though the email address
CGS> thomaslundy@...com is in my address book?

Probably because it has triggered another filter.

-- 
Groetjes, Roelof



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KNOWN Filter

[Carsten Guthardt-Schulz]

Hi,

Why is an email with the follwing header not moved to my INBOX-KNOWN
(Filter is active), though the email address thomaslundy@...com  is in my
address book?



Return-Path: 
X-Flags: 
Delivered-To: GMX delivery to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Received: (qmail 9313 invoked by uid 0); 12 Apr 2002 19:42:30 -
Received: from web14510.mail.yahoo.com (216.136.224.169)
  by mx0.gmx.net (mx012-rz3) with SMTP; 12 Apr 2002 19:42:30 -
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Received: from [216.232.13.125] by web14510.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 
12:42:28 PDT
Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 12:42:28 -0700 (PDT)
From: Thomas Lundy 
Subject: Re: ciao
To: Carsten Guthardt-Schulz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
In-Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
X-Modified-Forwards: 1A.inbox


hallo Carsten,


   [...]



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Specifics of the "Known" Filter

[Don Taylor]

Although some seem not to like it, the "known" filter and InBox are
helping me sort the wheat from the chaff. But I have a question.

The description of the "known" filter says it "allows you to separate
incoming mail by presence of the sender's address in your address
book." I presumed that meant the "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" part of the
AB entry. But this morning a message I would have expected to land in
Inbox-Known was routed to the normal InBox. The specific mail address
specified in "From:" was an exact match for "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" -
the only difference I can see is in the "Return-Path:", which includes
a variation of the name listed in my AB (e.g., "Fred and Wilma
Flintstone" as opposed to "Fred & Wilma Flintstone").

Can someone clarify exactly what constitutes a match for "known"?

TIA.

-Don

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