Re: TB! still has negative image
Hello Jernej, On Sat, 16 Dec 2006 12:22:10 +0100 GMT (16/12/2006, 18:22 +0700 GMT), Jernej Simončič wrote: JS I never have and never will mask my header. If somebody blocks my message JS because of this, that's his problem, not mine. Unless you are in business and need to get your message through to your customer's purchasing department, and the sysad blocks it. -- Cheers, Thomas. You better cut the pizza in four pieces because I am not hungry enough to eat six. (Yogi Berra) http://thomas.fernandez.hat-gar-keine-homepage.de/ Message reply created with The Bat! 3.95.3 under Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current version is 3.95.03 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: TB! still has negative image
Hallo Alexander, On Wed, 20 Dec 2006 23:45:20 +0100GMT (20-12-2006, 23:45 , where I live), you wrote: And to confuse things even more, RFC2076 mentions X-Mailer as 'not internet standard' (just like Mailer) and doesn't even mention User-Agent. Then again a client like Thunderbird uses User-Agent. ASK I always thought X-Mailer was for email and User-Agent was for news ASK clients? X-News-Reader (IIRC) -- Groetjes, Roelof Yawn: The only time some men get to open their mouths. http://www.voormijalleen.nl/ The Bat! 3.95.1 Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 1 pop3 account, server on LAN OTFE enabled P4 3GHz 2 GB RAM pgpFuiuGw7AxB.pgp Description: PGP signature Current version is 3.85.03 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: TB! still has negative image
On Thursday, December 21, 2006, 8:20:44, Roelof Otten wrote: I always thought X-Mailer was for email and User-Agent was for news clients? X-News-Reader (IIRC) All X-* headers are non-standard. User-Agent is the standarized header to tell what program created the message (or opened the connection). User-Agent also has it's content defined - it should be Program_Name/Version (no spaces). -- Jernej Simončič http://deepthought.ena.si/ The nail that sticks up gets hammered down. -- Advanced Systems News Letter Current version is 3.85.03 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: TB! still has negative image
On Mon, 18 Dec 2006 at 21:43:18 -0600, Chris wrote: I was looking through the RFCs (documents describing various Internet standards) today. User-Agent is a HTTP header. X-Mailer is the only e-mail header that routinely contains that information. FWIW, you can replace the X-Mailer header, but you need an additional tool like X-Ray mail assistant (www.xrayapp.com). -- Robin Using The Bat! v3.85.03 Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Popfile v0.22.4 Current version is 3.85.03 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: TB! still has negative image
Hallo Chris, On Mon, 18 Dec 2006 21:43:18 -0600GMT (19-12-2006, 4:43 , where I live), you wrote: There are some anti-spam tools that give you spam-points for omitting a Mailer/X-Mailer/User-Agent header. C I was looking through the RFCs (documents describing various Internet C standards) today. User-Agent is a HTTP header. X-Mailer is the only C e-mail header that routinely contains that information. C An interesting tidbit. And to confuse things even more, RFC2076 mentions X-Mailer as 'not internet standard' (just like Mailer) and doesn't even mention User-Agent. Then again a client like Thunderbird uses User-Agent. Personally I'd prefer to use something starting with an X, as that is what I've learned to to do with non-existing headers. Unfortunately X-Mailer (the one I'd prefer) can't be altered from within TB. -- Groetjes, Roelof Veni, Vidi, Vacancy. (I came, I saw, I managed to find a room.) http://www.voormijalleen.nl/ The Bat! 3.86.11 beta Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 1 pop3 account, server on LAN OTFE enabled P4 3GHz 2 GB RAM pgptm6o4DQX2h.pgp Description: PGP signature Current version is 3.85.03 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: TB! still has negative image
Roelof Otten @ 2006-12-19 4:10:10 AM TB! still has negative image mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Personally I'd prefer to use something starting with an X, as that is what I've learned to to do with non-existing headers. Unfortunately X-Mailer (the one I'd prefer) can't be altered from within TB. In these situations, X-* is reserved for community use. So, while X-Mailer may not be in the spec, it is a community standard, if you will. -- Chris Using The Bat! v3.85.03 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2. Accessing a POP3 mailbox. Today's Oxymoron: New classic pgpmwETwmtntG.pgp Description: PGP signature Current version is 3.85.03 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: TB! still has negative image
Hallo Gunivortus, On Fri, 15 Dec 2006 14:06:13 +0100GMT (15-12-2006, 14:06 , where I live), you wrote: Display as: Mailer RFC name:User-Agent Check: Allow to edit this field in the Message Editor Uncheck the other two options. GG I can't check the first two options. (They're lightgrey). GG what do I have to do to get be able to edit it? Odd. I didn't have to do anything special to be able to check those. When I create a new header the defaults are set to: address: no edit: yes scrollable part: yes Are they different for you? -- Groetjes, Roelof If you can't make it good, make it LOOK good. - B Gates http://www.voormijalleen.nl/ The Bat! 3.86.11 beta Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 1 pop3 account, server on LAN OTFE enabled P4 3GHz 2 GB RAM pgpVmHKomHBmJ.pgp Description: PGP signature Current version is 3.85.03 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: TB! still has negative image
Hallo Gunivortus, On Tue, 19 Dec 2006 12:39:00 +0100GMT (19-12-2006, 12:39 , where I live), you wrote: Display as: Mailer RFC name:User-Agent Check: Allow to edit this field in the Message Editor Uncheck the other two options. GG Mailer X-Mailer NoNoNo GG First I wanted to change this, that wasn't possible. GG Then I wanted to delete it and make a new one with GG User-Agent in stead of X-Mailer, but deleting isn't GG possible either. GG The oddest thing I never created that Mailer - X-Mailer GG myself, it was obviously as default made at the installation GG of TB. You've got to create a new header with the settings I described. You cannot delete the X-Mailer header, you were right in saying that TB installed that per default. So create a new header, let it display as Mailer, never mind that TB shows the X-Mailer as Mailer too, I've never seen a message with both X-Mailer and User-Agent in the headers, so it's not likely to confuse them. -- Groetjes, Roelof Never, ever, pinch a sorceress on the butt. ribit http://www.voormijalleen.nl/ The Bat! 3.86.11 beta Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 1 pop3 account, server on LAN OTFE enabled P4 3GHz 2 GB RAM pgpiaSKwyh7bt.pgp Description: PGP signature Current version is 3.85.03 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: TB! still has negative image
Hallo Gunivortus, On Tue, 19 Dec 2006 13:10:31 +0100GMT (19-12-2006, 13:10 , where I live), you wrote: So create a new header, let it display as Mailer, never mind that TB shows the X-Mailer as Mailer too, I've never seen a message with both X-Mailer and User-Agent in the headers, so it's not likely to confuse them. GG Brrr... now both are in the headers: Yes, I kind of expected that someone would do that, just to prove me wrong. GG X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.86.11 beta) Professional GG User-Agent: Die Fledermaus! v3.86.11 beta GG In your mail there's no X-Mailer in the header. Options - Preferences - General - Uncheck 'Use X-Mailer header' -- Groetjes, Roelof In spite of the cost of living, it's still popular. http://www.voormijalleen.nl/ The Bat! 3.86.11 beta Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 1 pop3 account, server on LAN OTFE enabled P4 3GHz 2 GB RAM pgpK7Jh2VVMU3.pgp Description: PGP signature Current version is 3.85.03 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: TB! still has negative image
Hallo Gunivortus, On Tue, 19 Dec 2006 13:30:45 +0100GMT (19-12-2006, 13:30 , where I live), you wrote: GG But why does TB use german text there in my header? I don't see any German text in your headers. GG Almoswt all my software, inclusive XP are in english. GG Where can I change that? You can change the language for the interface, but I'm not that that's what you mean: Options - Language - English (or Optionen - Sprache - English) -- Groetjes, Roelof Cats are the proof of a higher purpose to the Universe http://www.voormijalleen.nl/ The Bat! 3.86.11 beta Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 1 pop3 account, server on LAN OTFE enabled P4 3GHz 2 GB RAM pgpWH5yaSSQoh.pgp Description: PGP signature Current version is 3.85.03 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: TB! still has negative image
Robin Anson bracht volgend idée uit : I have a text file (called synonyms.txt) of synonyms for the bat in various languages in my mail directory. Which directory is that, please? -- Regards, Adriana. [ put out the rubbish if you need to reach me by e-mail ] www.spinsister.nl Current version is 3.85.03 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: TB! still has negative image
Hallo A, On Tue, 19 Dec 2006 15:08:15 +0100GMT (19-12-2006, 15:08 , where I live), you wrote: I have a text file (called synonyms.txt) of synonyms for the bat in various languages in my mail directory. AT Which directory is that, please? That differs per setup, you can find yours at: Options - Preferences - System - Mail directory -- Groetjes, Roelof '95 - The percentage of people who will have to upgrade their hardware http://www.voormijalleen.nl/ The Bat! 3.86.11 beta Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 1 pop3 account, server on LAN OTFE enabled P4 3GHz 2 GB RAM pgpPGyufset6V.pgp Description: PGP signature Current version is 3.85.03 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: TB! still has negative image
Roelof Otten schreef op 19-12-2006 : That differs per setup, you can find yours at: Options - Preferences - System - Mail directory Of course. Thank you. -- Regards, Adriana. [ put out the rubbish if you need to reach me by e-mail ] www.spinsister.nl Current version is 3.85.03 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: TB! still has negative image
On Mon, 18 Dec 2006 at 15:40:39 +1100, Tom wrote: Sorry, I am trying to follow this thread but still have some problems. Is the culprit the field for X-Mailer? What is the connection to User-Agent? Do I have to use one or the other or both? I followed the instructions and added the field for user-agent and now my header (on one account) does show as agent whatever but the x-mailer is still shown as the Bat. I thought the bad spam programs were looking for this as a criteria? Do I have to delete the field for X-Mailer or replace it with something else? Sorry, this is probably very basic for everyone but me :( User-Agent and X-Mailer are both header fields that can identify the email client you are using. Unfortunately you cannot change X-Mailer from within TB!. However, you can disable it by turning off the tick box at: Options - Preferences - General - Use X-Mailer header in messages You don't need to set User-Agent for this. However, if you still want to identify you email client, you can do so using the User-Agent field. -- Robin Using The Bat! v3.85.03 Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Popfile v0.22.4 Current version is 3.85.03 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: TB! still has negative image
Dear Tom, @18-Dec-2006, 15:40 +1100 (18-Dec 04:40 here) Tom [TL] in mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED] said to Robin: ... snip TL were looking for this as a criteria? Do I have to delete the field TL for X-Mailer or replace it with something else? There is a step missing in the instructions given so far. In the Preferences...General window, there is the option Use X-Mailer header in messages. Turn it off when you have implemented the User-agent header as instructed. That will sort it out. -- Cheers -- //.arck D Pearlstone -- List moderator and fellow end user TB! v3.86.11 beta on Windows XP 5.1.2600 Service Pack 2 ' pgpVrdtLS8fN1.pgp Description: PGP signature Current version is 3.85.03 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: TB! still has negative image
Hi On Saturday 16 December 2006 at 11:22:10 AM, in mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED], Jernej Simoncic wrote: I never have and never will mask my header. If somebody blocks my message because of this, that's his problem, not mine. Depending, I suggest, on how important it is *to you* that you successfully get a message to the person/organisation concerned? -- Best regards, MFPA Beware the deadly donkey falling slowly from the sky Using The Bat! v3.80.06 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 1 Current version is 3.85.03 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: TB! still has negative image
Hi On Saturday 16 December 2006 at 11:22:10 AM, in mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED], Jernej Simoncic wrote: I never have and never will mask my header. If somebody blocks my message because of this, that's his problem, not mine. Depending, I suggest, on how important it is *to you* that you successfully get a message to the person/organisation concerned? -- Best regards, MFPA Beware the deadly donkey falling slowly from the sky Using The Bat! v3.80.06 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 1 Current version is 3.85.03 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: TB! still has negative image
Monday, December 18, 2006, 8:33:44 PM, you wrote: You don't need to set User-Agent for this. However, if you still want to identify you email client, you can do so using the User-Agent field. Thanks, much clearer now. Last question - before I change my templates accordingly, is there a specific reason why a User-Agent should still be set up that way. In other words, if I just switch off the X-Mailer and don't create a User-Agent (ie have nothing in there to show my email program), may this have other consequences I should consider? -- Tom using TheBat! 3.85.02 on XP Current version is 3.85.03 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: TB! still has negative image
Hallo Tom, On Tue, 19 Dec 2006 09:02:55 +1100GMT (18-12-2006, 23:02 , where I live), you wrote: You don't need to set User-Agent for this. However, if you still want to identify you email client, you can do so using the User-Agent field. T Thanks, much clearer now. Last question - before I change my templates T accordingly, is there a specific reason why a User-Agent should still T be set up that way. In other words, if I just switch off the X-Mailer T and don't create a User-Agent (ie have nothing in there to show my T email program), may this have other consequences I should consider? There are some anti-spam tools that give you spam-points for omitting a Mailer/X-Mailer/User-Agent header. -- Groetjes, Roelof Facts are stubborn things. http://www.voormijalleen.nl/ The Bat! 3.86.11 beta Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 1 pop3 account, server on LAN OTFE enabled P4 3GHz 2 GB RAM pgpsNDwDSOZe6.pgp Description: PGP signature Current version is 3.85.03 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: TB! still has negative image
Tuesday, December 19, 2006, 10:07:12 AM, you wrote: There are some anti-spam tools that give you spam-points for omitting a Mailer/X-Mailer/User-Agent header. hmm, sounds like damned if you do and damned if you don't :( Well, I have now switched off the X-Mailer and set up the User-agent with your Mijn kleine vleermuis - that has a nice ring to it :) -- Tom using TheBat! 3.85.02 on XP Current version is 3.85.03 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: TB! still has negative image
Hallo Tom, On Tue, 19 Dec 2006 10:22:50 +1100GMT (19-12-2006, 0:22 , where I live), you wrote: There are some anti-spam tools that give you spam-points for omitting a Mailer/X-Mailer/User-Agent header. T hmm, sounds like damned if you do and damned if you don't :( Unfortunately you can't disable the X-Mailer header with a macro, otherwise you could disable it with AB templates. T Well, I have now switched off the X-Mailer and set up the User-agent T with your Mijn kleine vleermuis - that has a nice ring to it :) That's My little bat in Dutch. -- Groetjes, Roelof A vote on the tally sheet is worth two in the box. http://www.voormijalleen.nl/ The Bat! 3.86.11 beta Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 1 pop3 account, server on LAN OTFE enabled P4 3GHz 2 GB RAM pgprBdjddCrby.pgp Description: PGP signature Current version is 3.85.03 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: TB! still has negative image
Roelof Otten @ 2006-12-18 5:07:12 PM TB! still has negative image mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED] There are some anti-spam tools that give you spam-points for omitting a Mailer/X-Mailer/User-Agent header. I was looking through the RFCs (documents describing various Internet standards) today. User-Agent is a HTTP header. X-Mailer is the only e-mail header that routinely contains that information. An interesting tidbit. -- Chris Using The Bat! v3.85.03 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2. Accessing a POP3 mailbox. Today's Oxymoron: Definite maybe pgpsmbmG5tuKe.pgp Description: PGP signature Current version is 3.85.03 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: TB! still has negative image
Sunday, December 17, 2006, 9:41:47 AM, you wrote: On Fri, 15 Dec 2006 at 17:51:25 +, MFPA wrote: Why does simply turning off the x-mailer header resolve this? Because that is what these simplistic spam filters that are looking for TB! are searching on. Sorry, I am trying to follow this thread but still have some problems. Is the culprit the field for X-Mailer? What is the connection to User-Agent? Do I have to use one or the other or both? I followed the instructions and added the field for user-agent and now my header (on one account) does show as agent whatever but the x-mailer is still shown as the Bat. I thought the bad spam programs were looking for this as a criteria? Do I have to delete the field for X-Mailer or replace it with something else? Sorry, this is probably very basic for everyone but me :( -- Tom using TheBat! 3.85.02 on XP Current version is 3.85.03 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: TB! still has negative image
Hello Urban everyone else, on 14-Dez-2006 at 22:41 you (Urban) wrote: If you buy a product and find out it doesn't work according to the specs, the maker either gives your money back or solves the issue for you. That is another assumption, but it does not apply to the majority of software licenses that I know of. The license (at least Pro), second paragraph, also says | Registration gives you the right to use the program after the 30-day | trial period, receive technical support and use features available | only for registered users. What does technical support mean here? Its not defined. Thats just like the wonderful support contracts that state a response time of four hours. People are always deluded by that. A response is an answer from a supporter - but not a solution. Technical support as mentioned in the TB license could mean an answer like this can't be fixed or this won't be fixed, and thats it. -- Best regards, Alexander (http://www.neurowerx.de) Man is still the best computer that we can put aboard a spacecraft - and the only one that can be mass-produced with unskilled labor. -- Wernher von Braun Current version is 3.85.03 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: TB! still has negative image
On Saturday, December 16, 2006, 0:16:16, Tom wrote: Wow, this topic has had a fast response. One question though - are you all using this method? I have been using TB for about 2 years (only) and am not aware of any problems. Perhaps I am just lucky but should this header masking be done by default or only if problems become apparent? I never have and never will mask my header. If somebody blocks my message because of this, that's his problem, not mine. -- Jernej Simončič http://deepthought.ena.si/ The public is not made up of people who get their names in the newspapers. -- Wilson's Law of Demographics Current version is 3.85.03 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: TB! still has negative image
On Fri, 15 Dec 2006 at 17:51:25 +, MFPA wrote: Why does simply turning off the x-mailer header resolve this? Because that is what these simplistic spam filters that are looking for TB! are searching on. -- Robin Using The Bat! v3.85.03 Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Popfile v0.22.4 Current version is 3.85.03 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: TB! still has negative image
Hallo Robin, On Fri, 15 Dec 2006 13:45:37 +1100GMT (15-12-2006, 3:45 , where I live), you wrote: RA I have a text file (called synonyms.txt) of synonyms for the bat in RA various languages in my mail directory. It contains the following RA lines: Why so many duplicates between them? -- Groetjes, Roelof Windows: written entirely by and for blondes http://www.voormijalleen.nl/ The Bat! 3.86.10 beta Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 1 pop3 account, server on LAN OTFE enabled P4 3GHz 2 GB RAM pgp93vMBTTMN4.pgp Description: PGP signature Current version is 3.85.03 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: TB! still has negative image
On Thursday, December 14, 2006 Chris W. wrote: I have this in my default templates: %SetHeader(User-agent,RITLABS Mailer v%THEBATVERSION)%- I also have the User-agent header configured in Option - Preferences - Messages - Message Headers How did you configure the message header? It doesn't work here. Best regards, Maik -- Ad omnia alia aetate sapimus rectius, / solum unum hoc vitium affert senectus hominibus: / attentiores sumus ad rem omnes quam sat est. [Terentius, Adelphoe 832-834] Using The Bat! v3.86.10 beta (on-the-fly-encryption by eToken) on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current version is 3.85.03 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: TB! still has negative image
Hallo Maik, On Fri, 15 Dec 2006 09:18:07 +0100GMT (15-12-2006, 9:18 , where I live), you wrote: I have this in my default templates: %SetHeader(User-agent,RITLABS Mailer v%THEBATVERSION)%- I also have the User-agent header configured in Option - Preferences - Messages - Message Headers ML How did you configure the message header? It doesn't ML work here. You've got to define the User-agent header at Option - Preferences - Messages - Message Headers Attached you find my settings for this header. And then you use the %SetHeader macro to define its value. There isn't much more to explain on this subject. -- Groetjes, Roelof Veni, vidi, vacuum, (I came, I saw--nothing.) http://www.voormijalleen.nl/ The Bat! 3.86.10 beta Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 1 pop3 account, server on LAN OTFE enabled P4 3GHz 2 GB RAM pgpVaLBrb3l70.pgp Description: PGP signature Current version is 3.85.03 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: TB! still has negative image
Hallo Roelof, On Fri, 15 Dec 2006 10:23:58 +0100GMT (15-12-2006, 10:23 , where I live), you wrote: RO Attached you find my settings for this header. Somehow the picture got stripped by the server, the settings are: Display as: Mailer RFC name:User-Agent Check: Allow to edit this field in the Message Editor Uncheck the other two options. -- Groetjes, Roelof Sharewear (n.) -- Used clothing. http://www.voormijalleen.nl/ The Bat! 3.86.10 beta Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 1 pop3 account, server on LAN OTFE enabled P4 3GHz 2 GB RAM pgp3seQPObVx2.pgp Description: PGP signature Current version is 3.85.03 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: TB! still has negative image
Hello Roelof! On Friday, December 15, 2006, 3:23 AM, you wrote: ML How did you configure the message header? It doesn't ML work here. You've got to define the User-agent header at Option - Preferences - Messages - Message Headers Attached you find my settings for this header. And then you use the %SetHeader macro to define its value. There isn't much more to explain on this subject. Roelof, I guess it slipped your mind that TBUDL doesn't allow attachments? Only TBBETA? I did mine by following my X-Rogue pattern: 1) In Options/Preferences/Messages/Message Headers I clicked on Add. 2) In the window that came up I typed in User-agent in both fields. 3) I checked Allow to edit this field in the Message Editor and Display the field on the scrollable part of the header pane. I left the other option unchecked. 4) In Account/Properties/Templates I copied-pasted for each of the message templates: %SetHeader(User-agent,RITLABS Mailer v%THEBATVERSION)%- 5) I put the same line for my Address Book templates, which over-ride the Default Account templates, of course. It's working for me, I think. -- Best regards, Mary The Bat! 3.86.10 beta on Windows XP Media Center Edition Service Pack 2 Current version is 3.85.03 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: TB! still has negative image
Hello Maggie! On Friday, December 15, 2006, 5:18 AM, you wrote: And then you use the %SetHeader macro to define its value. There isn't much more to explain on this subject. Roelof, I guess it slipped your mind that TBUDL doesn't allow attachments? Only TBBETA? I did mine by following my X-Rogue pattern: ... MM's Cookie With a library you are free, not confined by temporary MM's Cookie political climates. That was supposed to be a 'thank you, Mary', not a stray cookie! I think it's working here now. :) I'm so glad. Feels like the old days, a bit, to me, when we were beta-testing X-Rogue on TBOT. -- Best regards, Mary The Bat! 3.86.10 beta on Windows XP Media Center Edition Service Pack 2 Current version is 3.85.03 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: TB! still has negative image
On Friday, December 15, 2006 Roelof Otten wrote: Display as: Mailer RFC name:User-Agent Check: Allow to edit this field in the Message Editor o.k., I didn't activate this option Uncheck the other two options. Now it works fine, thank you, Roelof! Best regards, Maik -- Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam. [Cato maior] Using The Bat! v3.86.10 beta (on-the-fly-encryption by eToken) on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current version is 3.85.03 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: TB! still has negative image
Hi Roelof, Display as: Mailer RFC name:User-Agent Check: Allow to edit this field in the Message Editor Uncheck the other two options. I can't check the first two options. (They're lightgrey). what do I have to do to get be able to edit it? -- Regards, Gunivortus Using The Bat Vs. 3.86.10 beta under XP Pro, SP2 Current version is 3.85.03 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: TB! still has negative image
Hello Maggie! On Friday, December 15, 2006, 7:37 AM, you wrote: I wonder why it would be necessary to copy the macro to the address book templates? Those people would be used to receiving mail from you, so their systems wouldn't choke on TB!, yes? Was just an extra precaution--in case their IP or ISP suddenly decided to get aggressive about filtering Spam, the way Comcast.net did recently. Not hard to do if you're using a Quick Template called with the Qinclude macro. One by one, manually, I admit it's a bit time-consuming. And as you say, likely unnecessary, anyway. :) -- Best regards, Mary The Bat! 3.86.10 beta on Windows XP Media Center Edition Service Pack 2 Current version is 3.85.03 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: TB! still has negative image
Hi On Friday 15 December 2006 at 2:19:03 PM, in mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED], Maggie Meister wrote: Hi Mary, On Friday, 15 December, 2006 at 8:44:13 AM you wrote: I wonder why it would be necessary to copy the macro to the address book templates? Those people would be used to receiving mail from you, so their systems wouldn't choke on TB!, yes? Was just an extra precaution--in case their IP or ISP suddenly decided to get aggressive about filtering Spam, the way Comcast.net did recently. Why does simply turning off the x-mailer header resolve this? ... Not hard to do if you're using a Quick Template called with the Qinclude macro. Or even QT if you can't be bothered to type include. -- Best regards, MFPA Change is inevitable except from a vending machine Using The Bat! v3.80.06 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 1 Current version is 3.85.03 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: TB! still has negative image
On Fri, 15 Dec 2006 at 09:34:26 +0100, Roelof wrote: Why so many duplicates between them? I like to see some of them more frequently. -- Robin Using The Bat! v3.85.03 Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Popfile v0.22.4 Current version is 3.85.03 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: TB! still has negative image
On Sat, 16 Dec 2006 at 10:16:16 +1100, Tom wrote: Wow, this topic has had a fast response. One question though - are you all using this method? I have been using TB for about 2 years (only) and am not aware of any problems. Perhaps I am just lucky but should this header masking be done by default or only if problems become apparent? It is really a risk management strategy. I never encountered any problems with mail being rejected as spam because of my mail header, but I didn't want to risk it. -- Robin Using The Bat! v3.85.03 Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Popfile v0.22.4 Current version is 3.85.03 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: TB! still has negative image
Het is zò dat Ian A. White formuleerde : What really amazes me is that if The Bat! is flagged as originating spam because of the number of supposed spammers using it, by now Outlook Express should have just about everything blocked simply because it is by far the most common program associated with spam. It is not about reality, but about perception. TB! has been labeled and the image sticks. -- Regards, Adriana. [ put out the rubbish if you need to reach me by e-mail ] www.spinsister.nl Current version is 3.85.03 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: TB! still has negative image
Marck D Pearlstone drukte met precisie uit : Give them this URL: http://www.ritlabs.com/ru/products/thebat/advice_detail.php?ID=189 I have and just hope they read it. -- Regards, Adriana. [ put out the rubbish if you need to reach me by e-mail ] www.spinsister.nl Current version is 3.85.03 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: TB! still has negative image
Hello Akebono Translation Service everyone else, on 14-Dez-2006 at 00:54 you (Akebono Translation Service) wrote: (my request has been waiting for 5 days without any boo or bah - which I find unacceptable considering I've paid for this thing) I think you should keep support and license apart. AFAIK you don't pay for Ritlabs support, but for the program license? -- Best regards, Alexander (http://www.neurowerx.de) I have a spiritual suitcase and I know where I'm going. -- Ethel Waters Current version is 3.85.03 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: TB! still has negative image
Dear Alexander, I think you should keep support and license apart. AFAIK you don't pay for Ritlabs support, but for the program license? I strongly disagree. People buy software assuming that the maker will help them whenever the software does not do what is stated in the software specifications. If you buy a product and find out it doesn't work according to the specs, the maker either gives your money back or solves the issue for you. Best regards, Loek van Kooten -- Akebono Translation Service Rijnstraat 32 2311 NK Leiden The Netherlands Tel: +31-71-5128026 Fax: +31-84-7390618 www.akebono.nl Algemene voorwaarden: www.akebono.nl/algemeen.doc Terms and conditions: www.akebono.nl/terms.doc Reg.no. Chamber of Commerce: 28066372 IMPORTANT: All delivery dates stated in quotes are as of the moment the quote was sent and can change as soon as other projects come in. BELANGRIJK: Bij alle leveringsdata in offertes gaan we uit van de agenda op dat moment. De data kunnen wijzigen zodra er andere projecten binnenkomen. Current version is 3.85.03 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: TB! still has negative image
Hello everyone, I really liked using TB, but I decided to give up using it in favor of Microsoft Outlook and in case you are wondering, I hate using Outlook! I will be the first one to admit TB is 10x better than Outlook, but I am tired of my e-mails getting rejecteted and having to deal with the negative image TB has in the public eye. If the producers of TB understand these issues and why their product is constantly being labeled as SPAM, then they need to fix the software code, so this does not happen. I never here of these issues happening with any other mail client, yet all mail clients are used for sending SPAM. I am very disappointed this issue is still an issue after a few years! When will the software code writers of TB wake up? This product easily could have captured the entire market share because of its supperior features not found in other mail clients, yet, it lags behind all the others in market share because of their lack of willingness to change. Robbie Current version is 3.85.03 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: TB! still has negative image
Robbie Margolis @ 2006-12-14 11:32:23 AM TB! still has negative image mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED] I will be the first one to admit TB is 10x better than Outlook, but I am tired of my e-mails getting rejecteted and having to deal with the negative image TB has in the public eye. I know that this comes late and is not an optimal solution: you can turn off the X-Mailer header. Go to Options - Preferences - General - Use X-Mailer ... I've done that and replaced it with my own. See the source of this message. -- Chris Using The Bat! v3.85.03 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2. Accessing a POP3 mailbox. Outside of a dog a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read. -Groucho Marx pgpnNAY17D88f.pgp Description: PGP signature Current version is 3.85.03 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: TB! still has negative image
Hello Akebono Translation Service everyone else, on 14-Dez-2006 at 18:20 you (Akebono Translation Service) wrote: I think you should keep support and license apart. AFAIK you don't pay for Ritlabs support, but for the program license? I strongly disagree. That may very well be, but in that case you shouldn't have agreed to the license when you installed The Bat (or any other program). People buy software assuming that the maker will help them whenever the software does not do what is stated in the software specifications. But reality is very different from assumptions that people make when they buy something. If you buy a product and find out it doesn't work according to the specs, the maker either gives your money back or solves the issue for you. That is another assumption, but it does not apply to the majority of software licenses that I know of. The license for The Bat (you should have it somewhere on your harddisk) says: .- | The program is distributed AS IS and you assume full responsibility | for determining the suitability of the program and for results obtained. | | RITLABS makes no warranty that all errors have been or can be eliminated | from the program software and, with respect thereto, RITLABS shall not | be responsible for losses, damages, costs, or expenses of any kind | resulting from using or misusing the program including without | limitation, any liability for business expenses, machine downtime, | damages experienced by you or any third person as a result of any | deficiency, defect, bug, error or malfunction. RITLABS shall not be | liable for any indirect, special, incidental, or consequential damages | relating to or arising out of the subject matter of this Agreement or | actions taken thereunder | | NO WARRANTY OF ANY KIND IS EXPRESSED OR IMPLIED. YOU USE THE PROGRAM AT | YOUR OWN RISK. RITLABS DISCLAIMS ALL WARRANTIES, EITHER EXPRESS OR | IMPLIED, INCLUDING THE WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A | PARTICULAR PURPOSE. NOBODY WILL BE LIABLE FOR DATA LOSS, DAMAGES, LOSS | OF PROFITS OR ANY OTHER KIND OF LOSS WHILE USING OR MISUSING THIS | SOFTWARE. `- The majority of try-before-you-buy and shareware programs comes with a similar license. -- Best regards, Alexander (http://www.neurowerx.de) We are not primarily put on this Earth to see through one another, but to see on another through. -- Peter de Vries Current version is 3.85.03 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: TB! still has negative image
Hello Akebono Translation Service everyone else, on 14-Dez-2006 at 19:51 you (Akebono Translation Service) wrote: Really, the issue isn't that important to me, but I find it truly strange that you're trying to defend non-support. I don't know how you got that impression. I'm fully for support, but I'm against the universal I demand attitude of people for things that they didn't pay for. This is a general problem. Please don't take it personally. For a product that costs must less than the PC and the operating system, a product that can be evaluated for free, and whatnot, what do you expect? A lifetime of fixes for a product that costs less than 50 bucks? Thats not realistic. Software doesn't age like physical goods do, and the rules that apply to physical products don't apply to software, no matter how hard we try to make comparisons (with cars and defective airbags, brakes, or whatever). If a computer, a certain product, whatever, is so important to you, your daily work, that you can't do without it functioning propperly, you should put a reasonable amount of money into it, and take all kinds of measures to ensure that this routine won't be interrupted. This is a common problem when people are working with computers - they don't (want to) recognize how much they depend on it. Computers and software are valued as better typewriters, but their real value for our daily lives is so much higher. Business critical. But then again, no matter how much money you put into it, as long as you don't pay for the support, you won't get any. You buy a license, and not the support, its as simple as that. For example, Microsoft Outlook is an email program and PIM double or triple the price of TB if you buy it stand-alone, and you get one (1) free support call with it if you buy the full packaged product. Hmmm... this is getting way off topic for the list, if you wish to continue the discussion lets move it to TBOT or to PM. -- Best regards, Alexander (http://www.neurowerx.de) If God made us in his image, we have certainly returned the compliment. -- Voltaire Current version is 3.85.03 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: TB! still has negative image
Thursday, December 14, 2006, Alexander S. Kunz wrote: If you buy a product and find out it doesn't work according to the specs, the maker either gives your money back or solves the issue for you. That is another assumption, but it does not apply to the majority of software licenses that I know of. The license for The Bat (you should have it somewhere on your harddisk) says: The license (at least Pro), second paragraph, also says | Registration gives you the right to use the program after the 30-day | trial period, receive technical support and use features available | only for registered users. -- Urban I don't know about you, but I enjoy watching paint dry. I imagine that the wet paint is a big freshwater lake that is the only source of water for some tiny cities by the lake. As the lake gets drier, the population gets more desperate, and sometimes there are water riots. Once there was a big fire and everyone died Current version is 3.85.03 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: TB! still has negative image
Peter Kerekes @ 2006-12-14 1:03:26 PM TB! still has negative image mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED] User-agent: RITLABS Mailer v3.85.03 I see how I can turn it off (remove the mark.) How can you replace it ? I have this in my default templates: %SetHeader(User-agent,RITLABS Mailer v%THEBATVERSION)%- I also have the User-agent header configured in Option - Preferences - Messages - Message Headers -- Chris Using The Bat! v3.85.03 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2. Accessing a POP3 mailbox. Sign on motorway garage: PLEASE DO NOT SMOKE NEAR OUR PETROL PUMPS. YOUR LIFE MAY NOT BE WORTH MUCH, BUT OUR PETROL IS pgpts1iQ6jaIT.pgp Description: PGP signature Current version is 3.85.03 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: TB! still has negative image
On Thu, 14 Dec 2006 at 16:26:27 -0600, Chris wrote:
I have this in my default templates:
%SetHeader(User-agent,RITLABS Mailer v%THEBATVERSION)%-
Or, for a bit of fun:
I have a text file (called synonyms.txt) of synonyms for the bat in
various languages in my mail directory. It contains the following
lines:
Die Fledermaus
La Chauve-Souris
The Flittermouse
The Pippistrelle
The Flying Fox
The Vespertilio
The Cheiropteron
The Reremouse
Il Pipistrello
De Vleermuis
O Morcego
De Flagermus
Sismis, bre
Tutumis, bre
Komori
Bianfu
Leteci sisar, bre
Yarasa
El Murcielago
Netopyr
Kang Kao
Die Fledermaus
La Chauve-Souris
The Pippistrelle
The Flying Fox
The Vespertilio
The Cheiropteron
The Reremouse
Il Pipistrello
De Vleermuis
El Murcielago
Netopyr
Bianfu
The Flittermouse
Then one is chosen at random each time an email is created with this
macro:
%SetHeader('User-Agent', '%Cookie=%MailDir%-\synonyms.txt! v%TheBatVersion')%-
This gives me a different user-agent each time, each of which means,
but does not say, The Bat!.
--
Robin
Using The Bat! v3.85.03
Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2
Popfile v0.22.4
Current version is 3.85.03 | 'Using TBUDL' information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: TB! still has negative image
Dear A, @14-Dec-2006, 00:36 +0100 (13-Dec 23:36 here) A.Translator [AT] in mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED] said: ... snip AT Beware: TheBat! is well-known as a spammer's mailer (even if the AT spammers just fake headers from TheBat!) and it's often blocked. ... snip AT How do we fight the negative image? Education... AT What is the best response? Give them this URL: http://www.ritlabs.com/ru/products/thebat/advice_detail.php?ID=189 -- Cheers -- //.arck D Pearlstone -- List moderator and fellow end user TB! v3.86.8 ALPHA (beta) on Windows XP 5.1.2600 Service Pack 2 ' pgp3IT0qKdwRX.pgp Description: PGP signature Current version is 3.85.03 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: TB! still has negative image
Dear all, How do we fight the negative image? What is the best response? I'm new to this list, but let me give my opinion anyway. The first thing I would do is improve the communication with my user base - it seems to take one month on the average until the developers of The Bat! actually respond to support requests (my request has been waiting for 5 days without any boo or bah - which I find unacceptable considering I've paid for this thing). The same applies to communication with the world outside: the only posting on the forums I've seen from Ritlabs is one announcement about the newest version of The Bat!. With a communication strategy like that, it will be impossible to get any word out, about anything. Best regards, Loek van Kooten Akebono Translation Service Rijnstraat 32 2311 NK Leiden The Netherlands Tel: +31-71-5128026 Fax: +31-84-7390618 www.akebono.nl Algemene voorwaarden: www.akebono.nl/algemeen.doc Terms and conditions: www.akebono.nl/terms.doc Reg.no. Chamber of Commerce: 28066372 IMPORTANT: All delivery dates stated in quotes are as of the moment the quote was sent and can change as soon as other projects come in. BELANGRIJK: Bij alle leveringsdata in offertes gaan we uit van de agenda op dat moment. De data kunnen wijzigen zodra er andere projecten binnenkomen. Current version is 3.85.03 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
