Re: [time-nuts] WWVB remodulator for the Spectracom 8170...

2013-06-17 Thread Charles P. Steinmetz
Burt wrote: In a sense you could say that Paul's circuit does get the WWVB signal to the receiver - it's just a new phase stable version of the signal signal. This way I don't have to mess with the insides of the 8170. Note that the 1 MHz TTL signal on the rear panel of the 8170 will not

Re: [time-nuts] Have 10 MHz need 19.2 MHz

2013-06-15 Thread Charles P. Steinmetz
I received this all jumbled up in one long line without any sort of formatting, because the sender's mail client does not use standardized structure -- so I don't know who wrote what: A 74HC4046 can reach 19.2 MHz Be very careful about specs like that and be sure to read all the fine

Re: [time-nuts] PLL Dead Zone was Have 10 MHz need 19.2 MHz

2013-06-15 Thread Charles P. Steinmetz
Simon wrote: The NXP 9046 is speced for zero dead zone. center frequency up to 17 MHz (typical) at VCC= 5.5 V Yes, that is what my message said: The 74HCT9046 may be a better choice (no dead zone), but you may need to select parts to run them at 19+ MHz. Did you read it before

Re: [time-nuts] HP and other equipment failure

2013-06-14 Thread Charles P. Steinmetz
Luciano wrote: About the HP5370 please got o see my solution The fans would cool the transistors better if they were blowing on the heatsink fins, not directly at the transistors. I use a slow fan that is large enough to blow over the whole heatsink assembly. You can't hear it over the

Re: [time-nuts] Looking for an old french disertation

2013-06-14 Thread Charles P. Steinmetz
Attila wrote: Hi, I'm looking for an old french diseration, which doesn't seem to be available electronically (at least i couldn't find it anywhere) and none of the libraries in switzerland seem to have it. Unfortunately, the author died a year ago, so i cannot contact him directly

Re: [time-nuts] Spectracom 8170 Time of Day grief...(WWVB Clock)

2013-06-13 Thread Charles P. Steinmetz
Joe wrote: In a slightly different direction, are there any commercially available 'PSK Compliant Atomic Clocks' out there for those of us used to looking at the 'correct time'? Also, what, exactly, was the advantage of changing modulation formats? That 'killed' all the existing 'Atomic

Re: [time-nuts] Possible candidate for 10MHz sine distribution

2013-06-08 Thread Charles P. Steinmetz
Probably not a good choice for 10MHz distribution. It's an NTSC composite video DA. NTSC composite video is relatively low bandwidth, typicaly 5MHz or so. Without complete specs in this DA, you can't rely on it having sufficient bandwidth, even for a 10MHz sine wave; certainly not

Re: [time-nuts] Cheap 9.8Mhz Sa.22c's

2013-06-05 Thread Charles P. Steinmetz
I think I have a acquaintance in USA that can maybe help but the shipping is going to kill me to death.. More so than buying a bunch of never-ending projects? One question -- it seemed that you had gotten to a place where the (one of the?) 9390(s) seemed to be more or less working, but the

Re: [time-nuts] Cheap 9.8Mhz Sa.22c's

2013-06-05 Thread Charles P. Steinmetz
David wrote: I hadn't thought about the uA739 for a while. It was one of the original low-noise amps - we used to use it for phono preamps. If you could live with the anemic output drive, they were great opamps for the time. I preferred the 749, which had an open-collector output (no 5k

Re: [time-nuts] Traceability after loss of LORAN and WWVB

2013-06-01 Thread Charles P. Steinmetz
Bob wrote: At least the way I read the pdf's NIST seems to believe that GPS is legally traceable to NIST. It is the same measure and then look up the data sort of thing that LORAN used to be. Took a while to read through them all… Yes, that is correct. Magnus wrote: However, just

Re: [time-nuts] Traceability after loss of LORAN and WWVB

2013-06-01 Thread Charles P. Steinmetz
Jim wrote: If I receive WWV, and measure it appropriately, can I say that my time, accurate to 1 second, is traceable to NIST, since they broadcast it quite accurately, and I can bound the uncertainty contribution from the propagation and electronics to less than a second. That is, NIST

Re: [time-nuts] Traceability after loss of LORAN and WWVB

2013-05-31 Thread Charles P. Steinmetz
Scott wrote: How are those of you dealing with traceability in the commercial space The topic is known as legal metrology. Start here: http://www.nist.gov/traceability/nist_traceability_policy_external.cfm You need to click through lots of links to get the whole picture. I believe the

Re: [time-nuts] Follow-up question re: microcontroller families

2013-05-28 Thread Charles P. Steinmetz
I wanted to take this opportunity to thank everyone who has contributed so much wisdom on this and the other two microcontroller threads. The last time I personally designed with uCs was 25+ years ago. Much has changed, and you have given me lots to think about! Of course, there was no

[time-nuts] Follow-up question re: microcontroller families

2013-05-25 Thread Charles P. Steinmetz
On another thread, Bob wrote: If the objective is to complete a very simple, low powered project and be done with it, go with the Arduino. If the objective is to learn an empire, be very careful about which empire you pick. The ARM boys are quickly gobbling up a lot of territory that once was

Re: [time-nuts] Extron ADA 6 as 1/5/10 MHz DA

2013-05-22 Thread Charles P. Steinmetz
What I have been referring to as the plain ADA 6 is properly known as the ADA 6 Component: www.extron.com/download/files/userman/ADA6ComponentB.pdf Judging from the dates on some of Extron's documents, it appears to be a newer model than the ADA 6 300 series -- which is consistent with

Re: [time-nuts] OCXO Adjustment Question

2013-05-08 Thread Charles P. Steinmetz
Fred wrote: I tried making small incremental adjustments but after I am done, the frequency drifts several Hz and then re-stabilizes at a new value. That is to be expected. Adjusting an oscillator is an iterative process. After a while, you should get a feel for how far it drifts after

Re: [time-nuts] OCXO Adjustment Question

2013-05-08 Thread Charles P. Steinmetz
One further thought: You say it drifts several Hz -- that seems like quite a lot, if you are making small adjustments. I'd expect perhaps several tens of mHz at most, although if it was way off when you started, Hz might be possible at the first iteration. I suspect you have a mechanical

Re: [time-nuts] Feldmann guide to the HP3586A/B/C

2013-04-23 Thread Charles P. Steinmetz
Gordon wrote: Can you advise where one might obtain a copy of the Bill Feldman users guide for the HP 3586B SLV? I have one of these units and need all of the help I can get. Is it available as a PDF anywhere? It is posted on the BAMA site:

Re: [time-nuts] Feldmann guide to the HP3586A/B/C

2013-04-23 Thread Charles P. Steinmetz
Brooke wrote: There are a number of paragraphs with the same number and Appendix C is missing all the schematics. The original was edited by a third party (including in particular the paragraph headers) around the time that Mr. Feldmann died. I do not believe any important content is

Re: [time-nuts] 10 MHz clock distribution for the lab

2013-04-21 Thread Charles P. Steinmetz
Russ wrote: The HP 5334B has a 1k Ohm input impedance shunted by 20 pf it wouldn't hurt to terminate this input This is pretty typical for reference inputs on test equipment. The idea is that one 50 ohm source can feed a number of instruments using nothing but a series of Tee connectors,

Re: [time-nuts] Z3805A OCXO p/n 3505A09422?

2013-04-18 Thread Charles P. Steinmetz
Brooke wrote: I'm trying to learn more about the HP Z3805A GPSDO. http://www.prc68.com/I/Z3805A.html It has an OCXO that I haven't seen before with a paper sticker with it's p/n: 3505A09422 The A normally means made in America. Check the output on a spectrum analyzer for 5 MHz content.

Re: [time-nuts] Z3805A high value PU

2013-04-17 Thread Charles P. Steinmetz
Mark wrote: For the first 6 hours PU stayed at 432us, then it dropped sharply to 5.6us and then slowly climbed to 18us. Doesn't seem right to me. Nothing it does in the first 6 hours has anything to do with anything. (1) The oscillator will be swinging around wildly (comparatively

Re: [time-nuts] Z3805A high value PU

2013-04-16 Thread Charles P. Steinmetz
Mark wrote: I recently purchased a pair of Z3805A The problem I am seeing on both is the predicted uncertainty is high compared to other receivers I have seen. I am experiencing a PU of ~8us for the first and ~24us for the second. My questions are, What could be causing such bad figures?

Re: [time-nuts] SRS FS 730

2013-03-22 Thread Charles P. Steinmetz
Bruce wrote: Switch mode power supply ? FLL or PLL loop? It's a distribution amplifier, so one wouldn't expect it to have an FLL or PLL loop -- and the manual does not mention one. However, according to the manual it does have (in sequence) a low-Q LC input filter, a rather aggressive

Re: [time-nuts] WWVB sync

2013-03-21 Thread Charles P. Steinmetz
Bob wrote: Some of these clocks and watches seem to like midnight as the magic time to synchronize. That's certainly what the Casio's do. Mine (it's a Brookstone, I don't know who manufactured it) will go a few days without a successful sync, then it switches to trying every two hours until

Re: [time-nuts] Lady Heather numbers

2013-03-08 Thread Charles P. Steinmetz
Peter wrote: I am not convinced the temperature control in mine is functional. Temperature control is a capability within Lady Heather (not the Tbolt itself) and requires external hardware (e.g., box and fan) to implement. Best regards, Charles

Re: [time-nuts] Lady Heather numbers

2013-03-05 Thread Charles P. Steinmetz
Garren wrote: Can anyone tell me how to turn off the satellite display on the lower right of the display? In the Graph menu (type g), you have three choices for displaying the ADEV tables and/or the satellite map: ADEV tables only (type a), Map only (type m), or Both (type b). You are now

Re: [time-nuts] Lady Heather numbers

2013-03-02 Thread Charles P. Steinmetz
Peter wrote: The antenna has a pretty clear sky view right now. I have about 75 feet of cable, 25 feet that came attached permanently to the antenna, might be RG-59, and a 50 foot extension which is a new piece of good quality RG-6 CATV cable. Perhaps the antenna (came with the tbolt in

Re: [time-nuts] Lady Heather numbers

2013-02-27 Thread Charles P. Steinmetz
Garren wrote: I don't doubt that my oven could be the problem but I would think a lot of people have their tbolts sitting in a room or basement with a lot more temperature swing than 2.5C. I also monitor the inner oven temperature where the oscillator is located and it remains stable at 67C

Re: [time-nuts] repairing General Technology (Tracor) 304-B rubidium standard

2013-02-20 Thread Charles P. Steinmetz
Could you put [scans of the manual] on a suitable server? I don't know what server would be suitable. * * * Any suggestions? http://www.ko4bb.com/Manuals/01%29_Upload_Instructions.php Best regards, Charles ___ time-nuts mailing list --

Re: [time-nuts] Low noise power supplies?

2013-02-01 Thread Charles P. Steinmetz
Joe wrote: Back when I was in product engineering there was a VCO design that used a superfilter circuit. It consisted of a pass transistor and a filter cap from base to ground. The gain of the transistor multiplied the effective capacitance. I have not seen this configuration since. They

Re: [time-nuts] Low noise power supplies?

2013-01-31 Thread Charles P. Steinmetz
Lester wrote: For a regulated power supply, make one using a 723. The 723 has far lower noise out than the monolithic regulators. If you are willing to design your own regulator using a 723, you may as well use a few more parts to get a much better result. Neither the internal reference

Re: [time-nuts] Low noise power supplies?

2013-01-31 Thread Charles P. Steinmetz
tvb wrote: I'll answer the question with anther question -- how does one properly measure power supply noise? Does it boil down to a single number, a couple of key numbers, or is it a plot, or several plots? There are a number of standard ways, some of which have been mentioned by others,

Re: [time-nuts] Low noise power supplies?

2013-01-31 Thread Charles P. Steinmetz
Bob wrote: An AD 797, a couple of metal film resistors, and a fairly large (say 47 uf) plastic cap work pretty well. The band from 10 Hz down to 0.1 or 0.01 Hz is generally important when testing oscillators. To keep the 797 input noise density below a few nV per root Hz, the terminations

Re: [time-nuts] OT, looking for a good science forum

2013-01-26 Thread Charles P. Steinmetz
Scott wrote: Liquid acetone requires special handling and pressurized cells to keep it from explosively disassociating. Did you mean liquid acetylene? Liquid acetone is sold in nearly every hardware and drug store in the US, and is one of the usual solvents into which acetylene is

Re: [time-nuts] Better gps antennas than a Symmetricom 58532A

2013-01-21 Thread Charles P. Steinmetz
Mark wrote: Does anyone have any suggestions for an antenna that would be significantly better than a Symmetricom 58532A for typical time nuts applications. Immunity to other transmitters is also a consideration for me, and this may push me towards staying with the 58532A. I use an

Re: [time-nuts] Used Spectracom

2013-01-16 Thread Charles P. Steinmetz
Joe wrote: If [Spectracom WWVB receivers] were dirt cheap, I'd probably pick one up. If you could wire in an external standard, it would still be useful for the phase comparator. That's what I did with my 8163. You need to add a Wenzel-style two-PNP squarer and use the squarer output to

Re: [time-nuts] Used Spectracom

2013-01-16 Thread Charles P. Steinmetz
Paul wrote: Charles sort of depends on the signal quality. My first approach shared used a modification to the 8163 to flip the phase. But on the east coast things can be quite a challenge the squaring circuit was unreliable. I was responding to Joe's observation that you could use one of the

Re: [time-nuts] Counter OCXO behaviour

2013-01-14 Thread Charles P. Steinmetz
Ed wrote: Is it manually adjusted right at the oscillator? If so, just opening it up and sticking a screwdriver in there gives it a thermal shock, and the adjusted element will have mechanical stress that has to settle out too - the value can change for a while. The 04E standard used in the

Re: [time-nuts] Need info on HP 1 MHz ovenized XO

2013-01-13 Thread Charles P. Steinmetz
Ed wrote: On opening it up I found that the circuitry includes a 74LS73 dual JK FF, and a 74LS140 - very obscure - apparently a dual 4-input gate of some sort. AFAIK, the '140 was only supplied in the S series (74S140). It's a dual 4-input NAND 50 ohm line driver. Best regards, Charles

Re: [time-nuts] PRS10 schematic or part identification help

2012-12-30 Thread Charles P. Steinmetz
Nate wrote: The PRS10 manual has a full parts list and makes numerous references to the schematic, but the schematic itself isn't part of the document. Anyone able to confirm the identity of the part I'm looking at here? For schematics, see http://www.ko4bb.com/manuals/. Search for prs10.

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt oven / non-stable operating temperature

2012-12-14 Thread Charles P. Steinmetz
tvb wrote: do either of you have actual tempco numbers? I checked my notes and found that I did not record any free-running tempco values. My observations were based on the scale factors I had to use to get the temperature and DAC graphs in Lady Heather to overlay each other. I initially

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt oven / non-stable operating temperature

2012-12-14 Thread Charles P. Steinmetz
Sarah wrote: All three have Trimble 37265 OCXOs Just a curiosity. Is there any way to check that via software? Did you just physically look under the cover, or how did you figure out which type of oscillator your thunderbolt has? You need to open it up. There is a sticker on the OXCO can:

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt oven / non-stable operating temperature

2012-12-14 Thread Charles P. Steinmetz
tvb wrote: the tempco can be inferred from temp and quadratic PPS offset residuals (EFC gain is not a factor in this case) It would be interesting (to me, at least) to know the spread of EFC gains from a reasonable population of Tbolts. Best regards, Charles

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt oven / non-stable operating temperature

2012-12-11 Thread Charles P. Steinmetz
Bill wrote: Well, perhaps you are not looking close enough. That is you need to be observing at a finer level of comparison. The changes, observed here and at another location, are in parts in 10-10 to 10-11 range, sometimes larger. At one of the locations there was a direct correlation

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt oven / non-stable operating temperature

2012-12-11 Thread Charles P. Steinmetz
Warren wrote: During normal operation my Tbolt uses the temperature and ADC data to in its Kalman filter that then can predict a simple linear temperature constant, and simple linear ageing rate. * * * But the **Only** time the Kalman filter is used is during Holdover. It does this

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt oven / non-stable operating temperature

2012-12-11 Thread Charles P. Steinmetz
Mark wrote: Although the Trimble oscillator has superb phase noise performance, it has TERRIBLE temperature sensitivity. It appears that most do but some don't. Between the results I have seen posted on the list (Lady Heather screen shots) and my own data, they seem to fall into two

Re: [time-nuts] GPS DO Alternatives

2012-12-08 Thread Charles P. Steinmetz
Chris wrote: The goal, well my goal is to build a GPSDO to this set of requirements 1) well under 1/2 the cost of the t-bolt. 2) can be made with common parts and skills most people have 3) is completely modifiable (open source software) * * * if you could use the GPSDO a a local

Re: [time-nuts] GPSDO Alternatives

2012-12-07 Thread Charles P. Steinmetz
John wrote: What's *really* interesting, though, is the idea that collectively we might develop some standard measurement protocols that would be reproducible in a number of (amateur) labs. I agree, but I didn't dare to dream so large when I wrote: From my perspective, the most

Re: [time-nuts] GPSDO Alternatives

2012-12-06 Thread Charles P. Steinmetz
Don wrote: you guys are reinforcing that just because its' cheap won't mean it won't work. Of course it doesn't. But keep in mind that working spans several orders of magnitude in this area, and what one needs to design and build depends on what degree of working one needs to support the

Re: [time-nuts] Considerations When Using The SR620

2012-12-02 Thread Charles P. Steinmetz
Paul wrote: The following comment appeared on this list recently and it scared me a little: Though the SR620 TIC is a great instrument when hunting the pico seconds we have to realize, that it's a thermal design desaster (I have to apologize to all sr620 friends). I have to run it for at

Re: [time-nuts] GPSDO recovery from holdover

2012-12-01 Thread Charles P. Steinmetz
Hal wrote: I can see two ways to recover. One is to jump the 10 MHz clock by 10 cycles. The other is to adjust the frequency so that the PPS slews back to on-time. The first approach gives you a second with the wrong number of cycles. The second approach has your clock frequency off for a

Re: [time-nuts] EIP545A 18GHz counter query

2012-11-29 Thread Charles P. Steinmetz
Chris wrote: I have the 10MHz output from David's divider feeding the counter. When fed from this the Band 2 seems unreliable starting at 10MHz. If I feed it 10Mhz at 50mV from my sig gen it starts reliably. Is it a mismatch from the divider, or has it perhaps not got enough drive level?

Re: [time-nuts] EIP545A 18GHz counter query

2012-11-29 Thread Charles P. Steinmetz
Chris wrote: Band 2 should work from -20dbm (22mV RMS) right across its 10 MHz to 1 GHz range according to the manual. Even with 190 MHz into it it takes at least 30mV to start triggering, sometimes up to 40 mV. 40 mV will reliably fire it across its full range once it warms up a bit. Band 1

Re: [time-nuts] getting a grip on 10811 drift (trying to read my instruments)

2012-11-15 Thread Charles P. Steinmetz
Chris wrote: If I read this correctly, I'm looking at 9,999,999.97 Hz ? Correct -- the small digit to the right is the exponent. As others have mentioned, by holding the UP arrow key in for about 3 seconds, the 1992 will switch to a 10-second gate and give you one more digit of

Re: [time-nuts] getting a grip on 10811 drift (trying to read my instruments)

2012-11-15 Thread Charles P. Steinmetz
Chris wrote: According to the documentation I have, pins 2, 4, and 5 are all tied together internally I think you may be correct. My recollection was that it needed to be done at the connector, but I may be mis-remembering. Worth a check, though. If you have Pin 6 ranging from + 5 V to -

Re: [time-nuts] Z3805

2012-11-15 Thread Charles P. Steinmetz
Bob wrote: I've heard much talk in this group about the power supplies on the Z3805. * * * my Z3805 * * * started producing a real bad smell after a few hours, the classic burnt transformer type. * * * I opened the unit and found the 25W 5V, +/-15V (made by ATT) was real,

Re: [time-nuts] Z3805 hold-Over

2012-11-11 Thread Charles P. Steinmetz
Doug wrote: I'll place a preamp in line to see if that increases the SS on the 3805 , maybe my problem is the GPS RX isn't well. Great point. Note that most GPS engines (including the one in the 3805) report carrier-to-noise ratio (C/N), NOT signal strength. C/N is a function mostly of the

Re: [time-nuts] getting a grip on 10811 drift (beginner-ish question)

2012-11-09 Thread Charles P. Steinmetz
Chris wrote: My perpetually drifting 10811 pretty quickly made it to the negative voltage rail on the control voltage. Is this an oscillator you just powered up after it had been off for a long time? The most common versions of the 0811 are specified for drift of less than 5 x 10e-10 per

[time-nuts] WWVB new modulation scheme monograph

2012-11-03 Thread Charles P. Steinmetz
This has probably already been posted more than once, but if anyone is still looking for a description of the new WWVB modulation scheme: http://tf.boulder.nist.gov/general/pdf/2651.pdf (Sept. 2012) Best regards, Charles ___ time-nuts mailing

Re: [time-nuts] Distribution amps and slew rate

2012-11-03 Thread Charles P. Steinmetz
david wrote: Given that slew rate is so critical, why do we distribute sine waves and perform the zero-crossing detection at every target instrument? Magnus made some good points in response to your question. To elaborate a bit: it is much easier to provide a friendly transmission

Re: [time-nuts] documentation for beginners

2012-10-21 Thread Charles P. Steinmetz
I could start a Wiki for Time Nuts, if you like, or anyone else could start one of course. Don't forget that Didier already has a wiki for precision timing: http://www.ko4bb.com/dokuwiki/doku.php Best regards, Charles ___ time-nuts

Re: [time-nuts] Hp 58503A

2012-10-16 Thread Charles P. Steinmetz
I just loaded it down with a 50 ohm load and looks perfect. One of my design pet peeves is not anticipating what users may do. For example, not anticipating that someone might terminate an output in a high impedance rather than in the rated impedance, or leave unused outputs

Re: [time-nuts] They're baaaack!

2012-10-02 Thread Charles P. Steinmetz
Are LightSquared still trying to get some value from their contributions? Of course they are. Lightsquared (LS) bought low-valued spectrum at fire-sale prices, speculating that with rule changes and waivers they could use it for a terrestrial broadband network, in which case its value

Re: [time-nuts] GPS Jammer

2012-10-02 Thread Charles P. Steinmetz
The Power Output is 0.5 Watts and it claims a jamming range of 1-10 Meters. Anybody think there is something wrong? I'd expect a much greater range with a 0.5 W jammer. But note that 0.5 W is the total output power -- the transmit power is only 10 dBm (0.01 W). Whatever those terms mean.

Re: [time-nuts] Up And Running

2012-09-28 Thread Charles P. Steinmetz
I did put a dab of jell super glue on each of the screw heads, after they were tightened down, I then wiped them clean. Maybe a bit of RTV would be appropriate as well. If you are trying to weatherproof an outdoor item, you will probably find that 3M 5200 marine adhesive/sealant is the

Re: [time-nuts] Lady Heather on a Laptop

2012-09-27 Thread Charles P. Steinmetz
Chris wrote: After some measuring my general run of thumb is Anything you leave plugged in and running 24x7 will cost you triple digits of dollars (at least) over a year Well, that's a lot of anything. There are 8760 hours in a year, so a 1 kW load will consume 8760 kWH per year. We pay

Re: [time-nuts] OT: Packing and shipping of test equipment

2012-09-12 Thread Charles P. Steinmetz
Jim wrote: As you can imagine, it turns out that foam can be too stiff or too soft, and that the appropriate foam density and thickness is dependent on both the mass of the thing being supported and the expected loading. You also need to pay attantion to what parts of the item can bear how

Re: [time-nuts] Be aware of test equipment seller

2012-09-11 Thread Charles P. Steinmetz
Gary wrote: Fedex ground is awful. Fedex air is fine. That is our experience, as well. It may vary from region to region -- the FedEx ground service uses contractors for local delivery. Our contractor seems to take pride in damaging as many items as badly as possible. I have witnessed

Re: [time-nuts] Subject: Be aware of test equipment seller

2012-09-10 Thread Charles P. Steinmetz
Greg wrote: Shortly after I started bidding on eBay back in the 90's, I quickly learned that many of the sellers are not knowledgeable equipment shippers. Amen. And that is the most polite and charitable description possible. I was surprised how the sellers would work hard to meet those

Re: [time-nuts] Recommendations for a newbie?

2012-09-09 Thread Charles P. Steinmetz
Said wrote: you make and post negative assumptions about a seller without any first hand experience * * * It is unfair to post that kind of negative opinion without you having any first hand experience with them. This is already way out of hand -- so with this, I'm done: I

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt temperature sensor [WAS: Recommendations for a newbie?]

2012-09-08 Thread Charles P. Steinmetz
Bob wrote: The strange temperature chip in the later TBolts isn't much of an issue. The chip is poorly located for temperature control. It only seems to impact the plots on Lady Heather. Trimble wasn't bothered enough by it to patch the firmware. My experience is consistent with this.

Re: [time-nuts] Recommendations for a newbie?

2012-09-08 Thread Charles P. Steinmetz
Said wrote (re: eBay 58503As): they work well for me, look brand-new, and came with power supply, rs-232 cable, and antenna. I think it's a 5V antenna. The unit had about 37000 on the lifetime. The seller has close up photos, that's what the units look like. I plugged in the power, ran GPSCon

Re: [time-nuts] Recommendations for a newbie?

2012-09-08 Thread Charles P. Steinmetz
Said wrote: Not sure why this is confusing to you, he clearly explains all the differences in the description I don't see anyplace where he explains all the differences, clearly or otherwise. And as I said, ALL of the descriptions I've seen (including the descriptions of the Z3805-based

Re: [time-nuts] REF osc distribution.

2012-09-06 Thread Charles P. Steinmetz
Luc wrote: We have a product that have been specially design for these : NGA-DIS Thank you for the link. The data sheet raises a few questions: The sine wave input level is specified as 1Vrms nominal 0.5V Peak to peak. Of course, 1Vrms is ~2.8Vp-p. It is not clear what this

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt temperature

2012-08-27 Thread Charles P. Steinmetz
Michael wrote: I'm still not entirely sure this is a good idea though, seems like a low-temp oven for the whole tbolt would be better if you want thermal stability. Precisely because it is not clear that holding the backplate of a Tbolt at a constant temperature is the best way to keep the

Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt distribution amplifier needed

2012-08-22 Thread Charles P. Steinmetz
Remember * * * these DAs are designed be unity gain and to handle approximately 1 volt p-p so be carefull of clipping if you drive much more than that level or alternatively, pad down the input to a 1 volt level. Also, video DAs are designed to drive 75 ohms (the video world's standard

Re: [time-nuts] T-Bolt Temperature

2012-08-15 Thread Charles P. Steinmetz
I have two Thunderbolts that I'm monitoring with Lady Heather. The temperature on the older unit (MFG 2/26/2004) seems to track the environment. The newer one (MFG 11-24-2004) shows 44.75 °C and only changes in increments of exactly 1°. Sounds like the newer one has the newer

Re: [time-nuts] T-Bolt output harmonics

2012-08-12 Thread Charles P. Steinmetz
Grant wrote: I tamed the provided switching power supply noise with some L's and C's, and am now looking at the 10MHz output on a spectrum analyzer. Here is what I measured: 10MHz +9dbm 20MHz-50dbm 30MHz -37dbm no obvious higher harmonics broad noise envelope at 60 75MHz @ -60dbm

Re: [time-nuts] T-Bolt output harmonics

2012-08-12 Thread Charles P. Steinmetz
john wrote: Or they [line harmonics] were cancelled by running the TBolt and spectrum analyzer from the same AC circuit. That's tripped me up before. Good thought, although probably not the case here. The Tbolt is supplied from a double conversion UPS with an output that is not referred

Re: [time-nuts] Active antennas for a Thunderbolt...

2012-07-30 Thread Charles P. Steinmetz
Chuck wrote: I don't quite know what to say about that. Trimble seems to think that bullet antenna is the right thing to use. Somehow, I would think they should know. I normally use a choke-ring survey antenna, but I also have a Trimble Bullet III, P/N 41556-00 (RoHS version is P/N

Re: [time-nuts] Zero-Crossing Detector Design?

2012-07-19 Thread Charles P. Steinmetz
Michael wrote: One circuit I was recommended when I was looking for ideas uses a 1M resistor to feed the output of the inverter back to the input to self-bias That works OK, but you have to be careful. Without an input signal, there can be excessive quiescent current through the inverter

Re: [time-nuts] HP 117/10509a

2012-07-05 Thread Charles P. Steinmetz
Don wrote: the fet breakdown voltage has of course got to be high enough. If the nuvistor is used as a common-cathode or common-grid amplifier, you can cascode the fet with a bipolar to extend its drain voltage range. You will need to come up with an appropriate bias source for the

Re: [time-nuts] TimePod, cross-correlation fun and measurements

2012-06-17 Thread Charles P. Steinmetz
Joe wrote: I was recently reading the manual for the TimePod. It looks quite nice. I'm curious as to the price. http://www.miles.io/ Best regards, Charles ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to

Re: [time-nuts] NTGS50AA glitches

2012-06-12 Thread Charles P. Steinmetz
Dan wrote: The attached LH plot shows what happened when it was moved slightly on the bench two or three times. What surprises me is that the DAC plot remains offset after everything else has settled. The movement event(s) appear to coincide with about 3 hours of significant temperature

Re: [time-nuts] LightSquared in the news again

2012-06-06 Thread Charles P. Steinmetz
Chris wrote: Actually LightSquared is an investment firm. They don't make any technology product. The company is run by a banker. Had their plan worked they would have ben in effect a radio wholesaler buying from producers and sellers to retailers who would then sale to end users. They

[time-nuts] LightSquared in the news again

2012-06-04 Thread Charles P. Steinmetz
From today's communications news (fair use): LightSquared stressed its intention to deploy a nationwide 4G wireless broadband network, during a meeting with Angela Giancarlo, chief of staff to FCC Commissioner Robert McDowell. The commission has some legal and policy responses it can take to

Re: [time-nuts] Why 9,192,631,770 ??

2012-05-09 Thread Charles P. Steinmetz
Don wrote: It's interesting to note (to ask?): When did someone get smart enough to start measuring 1/86 thousandth of a day That is generally considered to be the 10th/11th century Persian Muslim mathematician and astronomer, Abu al-Rayhan Muhammad ibn Ahmad al-Biruni (a.k.a. Alberonius

Re: [time-nuts] Wilkinson TDC

2012-04-29 Thread Charles P. Steinmetz
Bruce wrote: The essentials of a Wikinson TDC can be simplified to the attached circuit which only requires the addition of a zero crossing comparator to monitor the voltage across the capacitor C1. A few refinements to improve the capacitor charging current switching transitions and the

Re: [time-nuts] Racal-Dana tactile switches

2012-04-21 Thread Charles P. Steinmetz
Stewart wrote: It's a design fault and eventually all of them will fail. I'm not convinced of that. There has been substantial discussion of Racal switches on the list in the past, and I suggested at one point that the failure mechanism (dry, cracked rubber) could be related to the

Re: [time-nuts] Lucent 40 dB Antenna

2012-04-13 Thread Charles P. Steinmetz
Gary wrote: Most of those no antenna rules can't be enforced. They can control the color of the antenna. Yes, really. For example, CONUS, you can have any number of 1 meter dishes. You might have to paint the dish. I believe Gary is referring to the FCC's OTARD (Over-the-Air Reception

Re: [time-nuts] WWVB phase modulation test April 15-16

2012-04-12 Thread Charles P. Steinmetz
Hal wrote: How many of you have used the Tek scope-probe to BNC adapter? I tried a bit but couldn't find anything on the web. The idea was (roughly) that you put a BNC Tee in the line you wanted to watch and this magic gizmo on the Tee. I have some. I don't use them often, but they are

Re: [time-nuts] Lucent 40 dB Antenna

2012-04-11 Thread Charles P. Steinmetz
Chris wrote: Where are you placing your antenna? I'm curious because you say the choke ring helps. Is it close to the ground, near a building? What might be the cause of the muiltipath that the choke ring is helping with I've been working with RF long enough not to expect easy answers when

Re: [time-nuts] Lucent 40 dB Antenna

2012-04-10 Thread Charles P. Steinmetz
Chuck wrote: My Lucent antenna arrived today. Has anyone compared this antenna with the mushroom that came from China with the used Thunderbolts??? I have five GPS antennas -- a Garmin mag-mount puck designed for vehicular use, a Garmin marine mushroom, a Lucent timing antenna like yours,

Re: [time-nuts] Austron 2201, Tbolt, HP 3801 comparison question

2012-04-07 Thread Charles P. Steinmetz
Ulrich wrote: The Smartclock in difference seems to be able to adapt regulation parameters to its measurements of ocxo stability and long term drift. I do not know any details about Smartclock, but I believe one of the things it does is to adjust the oscillator disciplining parameters

Re: [time-nuts] Distribution amp - Use a video amp unit ?

2012-03-27 Thread Charles P. Steinmetz
Bruce wrote: The above reverse isolation [~35 dB] is about 25dB lower than I would expect. D'oh! Bruce is right -- I calculated the reverse isolation incorrectly. I had only been expecting 40 dB, so I didn't question the result. The breadboard actually measured nearly 63 dB. Stable

Re: [time-nuts] Distribution amp - Use a video amp unit ?

2012-03-26 Thread Charles P. Steinmetz
Bruce wrote: A circuit schematic for a current feedback triple with reasonably low noise and distortion is attached. Quite a good performer for such a simple circuit. I found, both in modeling and on the bench, that there is the usual noise bump at 200-300 MHz and non-monotonic behavior

Re: [time-nuts] Distribution amp - Use a video amp unit ?

2012-03-26 Thread Charles P. Steinmetz
Randy wrote: if one is distributing 10 Mhz, does it really matter what the circuit does at 300 and 900 Mhz?? That depends on what it is feeding and what noise and other signals are getting to the DA input. Some synthesized 10 MHz sources produce energy well above 10 MHz. I consider

Re: [time-nuts] TBolt-PRS10

2012-03-25 Thread Charles P. Steinmetz
Juerg wrote: Having a M12+Timing GPS driving the 1 Hz input of my PRS10. I decided to upgrade my house referenc switching to a Tbolt as the 1 Hz source. * * * Tests showed maximum deviation of 2 nsec with the Tbolt over 1000 seconds * * * Here are my questions: Are 2 nsec

Re: [time-nuts] Distribution amp - Use a video amp unit ?

2012-03-25 Thread Charles P. Steinmetz
Bruce wrote: A circuit schematic for a current feedback triple with reasonably low noise and distortion is attached. One caution regarding the 100 uH inductor (L3) -- many inductors of this value exhibit self-resonance below 10 MHz, so some care may be necessary in selection. Best

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