Re: [time-nuts] GPS choices.

2013-09-09 Thread Jim Lux
On 9/9/13 8:08 AM, Paul wrote: Although the inexpensive yet high sensitivity units are nice I'm not sure why someone would choose a positioning MTK (e.g. Adafruit) over a timing Ublox (or even an old Motorola style timing receiver). Sometimes, continuing availability is a bigger design

Re: [time-nuts] Lightning Strike Site

2013-09-09 Thread Jim Lux
On 9/9/13 8:36 AM, Bob Smither wrote: On 09/09/2013 07:59 AM, J. Forster wrote: FYI: http://thunderstorm.vaisala.com/explorer.html Here is another one: http://www.strikestarus.com/ That uses an ad-hoc network of Boltek detectors, which work ok. I had one in 1999-2000 at work..

Re: [time-nuts] Lightning Strike Site

2013-09-09 Thread Jim Lux
On 9/9/13 1:20 PM, Mark Sims wrote: A cute little lightning detector based upon the AS3935 lightning detector chip: http://www.embeddedadventures.com/as3935_lightning_sensor_module_mod-1016.html ___ time-nuts

Re: [time-nuts] Wavecrest DTS 2070

2013-09-09 Thread Jim Lux
On 9/9/13 2:21 PM, Mark C. Stephens wrote: Is 200 amperes @ 2v not lethal? Not particularly.. any more than putting your fingers across a 1.5 or 3V battery is lethal. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to

Re: [time-nuts] Wavecrest DTS 2070

2013-09-09 Thread Jim Lux
On 9/9/13 2:38 PM, Mark C. Stephens wrote: I have seen a 12v car battery and a wire frame bed to torture victims on television twice now. Are you telling me that's bunk?! (pardon the pun) As someone who used to make their living doing just such physical effects for film and TV.. It's a

Re: [time-nuts] Lightning Strike Site (Jim Lux)

2013-09-09 Thread Jim Lux
On 9/9/13 3:52 PM, Mark Sims wrote: The AS3935 has an INT output pin that signals a detection. You could monitor that. The AS3935 is based upon an internal DSP processing the receiver output. No telling how long between when the strike occurs and when INT is activated.

[time-nuts] Lightning detectors

2013-09-09 Thread Jim Lux
On 9/9/13 4:08 PM, Jim Lux wrote: On 9/9/13 3:52 PM, Mark Sims wrote: The AS3935 has an INT output pin that signals a detection. You could In an interesting coincidence, Charles Wenzel (yes, that Wenzel) has a design for a lightning detector: http://www.techlib.com/electronics

Re: [time-nuts] GPS outage?

2013-09-07 Thread Jim Lux
On 9/6/13 8:36 PM, John C. Westmoreland, P.E. wrote: Fellow Time Nuts: Is this a site to be trusted?: http://adn.agi.com/SatelliteOutageCalendar/SOFCalendar.aspx Regards, John W. AGI are the folks who make and sell STK (Satellite Took Kit, I believe) which has a dominant position in the

Re: [time-nuts] GPS outage?

2013-09-06 Thread Jim Lux
On 9/6/13 4:00 AM, Bob Camp wrote: Hi A truck jammer isn't what you would use to take out a large area, you would need 100,000 of that sort of jammer. Since the truckers that use them get fired, there's a limited number of them in use…. Considering they cost $30, and they're not that easy to

Re: [time-nuts] Raw GPS signal samples

2013-09-04 Thread Jim Lux
On 9/2/13 7:21 PM, John Seamons wrote: Somewhat off-topic but it might help someone out: I've had a tough time finding, and using, files on the net containing raw GPS signal samples to be used with the various software-only (or software-mostly) GPS receivers out there. I finally got a file of

Re: [time-nuts] GPS-18, Windows, NTP Lat Lon

2013-09-04 Thread Jim Lux
On 9/4/13 7:35 AM, Didier Juges wrote: Jim, You should be able to piggyback a second serial port in parallel with the one used by NTP (just the Rx line and ground) and use any NMEA decoder. It does not even have to be the same computer. I have a quick NMEA decoder for Windows I wrote some

Re: [time-nuts] sub-minute time-precision in court-case

2013-09-03 Thread Jim Lux
On 9/3/13 7:07 AM, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: It is very rare to see courts deal with time precisions less than minutes, but it seems to have happened in this case: Interesting (and of course, this case has been in the news recently).. In this case, all the messages were presumably handled by

Re: [time-nuts] Synthesizers

2013-09-03 Thread Jim Lux
On 9/2/13 7:50 PM, Bill Hawkins wrote: Why do we hardly ever talk about synthesizers - those boxes that turn 10 MHz into other frequencies? We do.. there's a fair amount of talk about boxes like the PTS synthesizers. And there's been talk about 866x series synths, and perhaps the 3325,

Re: [time-nuts] Jackson Labs' Web-Site

2013-09-03 Thread Jim Lux
On 9/3/13 10:20 AM, Said Jackson wrote: Hi guys, Thanks for the heads up, all should be well now. The auto-renew did not work because we moved and they had an old CC address. Domains that expire stay locked for 36+ days to the old owner, so no risk there.. This brings up a good point, we

Re: [time-nuts] sub-minute time-precision in court-case

2013-09-03 Thread Jim Lux
On 9/3/13 11:21 AM, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: In message 5225f8af.60...@earthlink.net, Jim Lux writes: In this case, all the messages were presumably handled by the same carrier, so the issue of skew in timestamps is negligible; Anything but. The text-messages are likely stamped by the SS7

Re: [time-nuts] sub-minute time-precision in court-case

2013-09-03 Thread Jim Lux
On 9/3/13 2:47 PM, Tom Van Baak wrote: Nowhere does the opinion mention if the timestamps were taken on the same clock or if the two clocks were synchronized. PHK, Correct. This is an age-old problem, whether its minutes or nanoseconds. Time-stamps are inherently relative to a local

[time-nuts] GPS-18, Windows, NTP Lat Lon

2013-09-03 Thread Jim Lux
where it is). It's not like ntpd or ntpq have some handy switch that says display current lat/lon (which makes sense, because NTP is fundamentally time source agnostic). All of this with Windows 7. Jim ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com

Re: [time-nuts] GPS-18, Windows, NTP Lat Lon

2013-09-03 Thread Jim Lux
On 9/3/13 5:35 PM, Jim Lux wrote: I'm looking for an easy way to get current lat lon, when you've got a GPS-18 hooked up for NTP. That is, the GPS receiver is there doing it's NTP thing, so presumably it knows where it is. If NTP is decoding the GPRMC message, it has the lat/lon in it, so how

Re: [time-nuts] GPS-18, Windows, NTP Lat Lon

2013-09-03 Thread Jim Lux
On 9/3/13 6:47 PM, brent evers wrote: Wouldn't turning off ntp drive it nuts? At the risk of throwing out the bone head answer and assuming this isn't going on your next space craft, you could just split the GPS serial (my quick google showed the 18 to be the serial unit vs usb) signal and run

Re: [time-nuts] Synthesizers

2013-09-03 Thread Jim Lux
On 9/3/13 7:14 PM, Pete Lancashire wrote: Ah the 8660's Image 22 8660A's in two racks, was an fun tax payer, paid project :-) We where never told what the master clock was. Have S/N suffix 0009 in the garage. For you time nuts, a side hobby should be frequency nuts. How to produce the

Re: [time-nuts] de Witte's Experiment

2013-08-28 Thread Jim Lux
On 8/28/13 9:00 AM, Steven Kluck wrote: It might appear that the Torr-Kolen Experiment, which had similar results to de Witte, had similar temperature compensation and control problems. I think it would be interesting to run for a year with an east-west coax run, and a separate north-south

Re: [time-nuts] NTP/1-PPS/RS232 question

2013-08-20 Thread Jim Lux
On 8/20/13 8:20 AM, Brian Inglis wrote: On 2013-08-20 02:45, Björn wrote: b...@lysator.liu.se said: The PTTI 1PPS is defined in http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/pdf/gps/ICD-GPS-060B.pdf It is 20us long and common in some applications. However the voltage levels are a bit high... The section

Re: [time-nuts] Low cost GPS for model aircraft

2013-08-05 Thread Jim Lux
Design so that when that module is no longer available, you've got pins and software switches to use something else. Lots of one off projects depend on something surplus or cheap, and rapidly become non-duplicate-able when the parts supply ends. On Aug 5, 2013, at 1:18, M. Simon

Re: [time-nuts] Trimble Nortel GPSTM Boards

2013-08-05 Thread Jim Sanford
Did you /increase/ the elevation mask? Jim wb4...@amsat.org On 8/5/2013 8:06 PM, gandal...@aol.com wrote: Many thanks to those who commented on this and apologies for the delayed response, having spent a few days in an internet free zone I've also had to contend with a couple of power failures

Re: [time-nuts] Trimble Nortel GPSTM Boards

2013-08-02 Thread Jim Sanford
, with trees in the distance. Jim On 8/2/2013 9:24 AM, Bob Camp wrote: Hi Either a blown receiver (likely the SAW filter) or antenna multi path. Bob On Aug 1, 2013, at 8:45 PM, Jim Sanford wb4...@wb4gcs.org wrote: I am seeing the same thing -- big jumps every single time a satellite is counted

Re: [time-nuts] Trimble Nortel GPSTM Boards

2013-08-01 Thread Jim Sanford
I am seeing the same thing -- big jumps every single time a satellite is counted or not. Elevation mask 10 degrees, which should be very good and stable for my location. The unit also insists on converging to a bat altitude, then after a while declares stored position bad . .. then declares

Re: [time-nuts] Story in the Economist about GPS jamming

2013-07-31 Thread Jim Lux
Yes.. You put a gain antenna on the space craft, so for the same tx power, you get the same flux density on the ground. The gps height was chosen for a variety of reasons. It is out of the debris band, for one. There's also a tradeoffs on launch costs, etc. GPS world magazine had a great

Re: [time-nuts] GPS Spoofing

2013-07-27 Thread Jim Sanford
or collided with another ship from spending too much time looking out the window. Way too easy to get their heads stuck in the radar or the GPS map. 73, Jim wb4...@amsat.org On 7/27/2013 9:43 AM, Scott McGrath wrote: Key here is how does the captain know that GPS is no longer providing

Re: [time-nuts] RS 232

2013-07-26 Thread Jim Lux
On 7/26/13 4:41 AM, briana wrote: Ever since WINxp arrived on the scene hams who send code via computer to radios via parallel, serial or usb ports (with serial port converters following) have seen the latency issue in spades. We're talking about effective baud rates less that 50. 3-4

Re: [time-nuts] was RS-232,

2013-07-26 Thread Jim Lux
On 7/26/13 8:46 AM, Brian Alsop wrote: Hi Jim, You mean to imply no commercial programs ever use quick fixes? heavens no.. Plenty of quick fixes.. It's difference between seat-of-the-pants field engineering and a theoretical pursuit. There are no humanitarian costs associated with failure

Re: [time-nuts] RS 232

2013-07-26 Thread Jim Lux
On 7/26/13 12:50 PM, Didier Juges wrote: There is a difference between managing the latency (as in ensuring that sound and video are synchronized, but latency itself is acceptable) and minimizing the latency as in a Morse code keyer where the operator has to manually control the generation of

Re: [time-nuts] GPS Spoofing

2013-07-26 Thread Jim Lux
On 7/26/13 8:45 PM, J. Forster wrote: I gather from the article, the GPS position was spoofed and the autopilot, in bringing it back to where it was supposed to be, actually took it off course. There are places where a few hundred feet makes a big difference, viz. the Costa Concordia. IMO,

Re: [time-nuts] distirbuted sync

2013-07-24 Thread Jim Lux
On 7/23/13 11:03 PM, Chris Albertson wrote: You can prototype a system with off the shelf parts get a few computers, old notebook computers, Raspburry pI' or repurposed routers, what ever you have. Connect a Trimble Thunderbolt GPS to each one. Each one runs NTP. Connect them all to a

Re: [time-nuts] GPS 18 behavior

2013-07-23 Thread Jim Lux
On 7/23/13 4:51 AM, Scott McGrath wrote: Thanks Jim Was not aware that 10 Ghz signals could penetrate so deeply. I work for a enterprise wifi company on the RF side and one of our key challenges is signal attenuation/distortion by building materials Any pointers to papers on this? there's

Re: [time-nuts] GPS 18 behavior

2013-07-23 Thread Jim Lux
requirement comes from being able to find the same heartbeat in multiple data streams. Jim, That's a fascinating application. Ok, one last comment then. As much as GPS is an obvious solution, did you consider the use of multiple homebrew timing pulse pseudolites instead? If one placed a couple

[time-nuts] distirbuted sync

2013-07-23 Thread Jim Lux
Starting a new thread... Brian wrote: Have you considered WWVB? Works fine within structures. Even though the carrier today is phase modulated one can probably glean 1 ms accuracy from it or the data transmitted. -- disasters occur world wide, any time day or night, so depending on WWVB

Re: [time-nuts] distirbuted sync

2013-07-23 Thread Jim Lux
On 7/23/13 9:15 AM, Chris Albertson wrote: I don't think those requirements are hard. You can build a system that works in three cases 1) GPS is available full time 2) GPS is available intermittently. 3) there is not GPS system, world war III has destroyed it. or you're in an urban canyon or

Re: [time-nuts] GPS 18 behavior

2013-07-22 Thread Jim Lux
On 7/21/13 6:42 PM, Chris Albertson wrote: I think the way to keep the sensors in sync is to use the same method they use to keep cell towers in sync. Basically each tower has a GPS receiver and also a good local oscillator. The GPS disciplines the oscillator and the timing is taken from that

Re: [time-nuts] GPS 18 behavior

2013-07-22 Thread Jim Lux
On 7/22/13 5:48 AM, Scott McGrath wrote: You might want to look at what these guys have done for 40 years or so. Www.geophysical.com ground penetrating radar doesn't work very well in the typical disaster rubble enviroment which has uneven surfaces and a lot of random scattering in the

Re: [time-nuts] GPS 18 behavior

2013-07-22 Thread Jim Lux
On 7/22/13 10:39 AM, Scott McGrath wrote: Moles are a bit small it would probably work better for woodchucks. who are in the process of undermining all lawns in neighborhood now. In a more serious vein most ground penetrating radar is low frequency and I was not aware that THz waves could

[time-nuts] GPS 18 behavior

2013-07-21 Thread Jim Lux
I don't have a GPS-18 in front of me, and I'm modifying some software remotely, and I ran across an issue that someone on this list probably knows off the top of their head. Does the GPS-18 put out 1pps pulses even if it hasn't got a fix yet? That is, when you apply power, does it just start

Re: [time-nuts] GPS 18 behavior

2013-07-21 Thread Jim Lux
On 7/21/13 7:15 AM, David McGaw wrote: The GPS-18 does NOT output 1PPS until it acquires lock. Then the 1PPS stays on even if lock is lost, running from the internal crystal. I have not checked, but once it reacquires lock I presume it jumps to the correct second. All outputs including 1PPS

Re: [time-nuts] GPS 18 behavior

2013-07-21 Thread Jim Lux
On 7/21/13 6:59 AM, David J Taylor wrote: My own notes on the GPS-18 LVC are here: http://www.satsignal.eu/ntp/FreeBSD-GPS-PPS.htm You may be able to gather something about the electrical characteristics from that note - the device will happily feed to PC RS-232 ports connected in parallel

Re: [time-nuts] GPS 18 behavior

2013-07-21 Thread Jim Lux
On 7/21/13 9:28 AM, David J Taylor wrote: From: Jim Lux [] Oh, I didn't actually think it would be 10% off.. more like a few ppm, depending on temperature. I was wondering more what would happen if you were indoors for a couple days, then went back out, what the box does. realistically, I don't

Re: [time-nuts] GPS 18 behavior

2013-07-21 Thread Jim Lux
accuracy in an absolute sense: I just need to tag the data all with the same time tag within a few seconds. Jim, If the requirement is just a couple of seconds, did you consider one of the high-accuracy Dallas RTC chips? That might be a simpler solution than a GPS receiver (knowing when and when

Re: [time-nuts] Nortel/Thunderbolt questions

2013-07-13 Thread Jim Sanford
expect, with a 300' error in elevation. Jim On 7/13/2013 9:04 AM, Bob Camp wrote: Hi I believe what you have here is a Trimble / Nortel box rather than a TBolt - is this correct? If so there are a number of differences in what you can and can't do with LH. Also since it's a different design

Re: [time-nuts] Nortel/Thunderbolt questions

2013-07-13 Thread Jim Sanford
, so it never converges to small variation like I see when I look at the KE5FX site -- what is this telling me? Thanks, Jim On 7/13/2013 8:44 PM, Bob Camp wrote: Hi On mine, I did a full reset and let them start from a survey. After they figured out where they were, I did the normal stuff

[time-nuts] Nortel/Thunderbolt questions

2013-07-12 Thread Jim Sanford
, or stay locked, when it is seeing good sat signals? Thanks! Jim wb4...@amsat.org ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.

Re: [time-nuts] Very stable synthesizer, alternative to PTS(Programmed Test Sources) x10 or 040?

2013-07-11 Thread Jim Lux
On 7/11/13 12:45 AM, Stefan Heinzmann wrote: Jim Lux wrote: On 7/10/13 12:29 PM, Didier Juges wrote: Jim said: Now you're confusing me. As far as I am aware, there was the 8663A which appeared in the early eighties. And much later came the E8663B, and subsequently the E8663D. I've never

Re: [time-nuts] Speaking of Costas loops (WAAS)

2013-07-11 Thread Jim Lux
On 7/11/13 3:36 AM, Bob Camp wrote: Hi The pseudo random spreading / looks like noise / buried signal thing is the most common way people piggyback low level signals on a bent pipe. Assuming that the bent pipe isn't running saturated, which I'm not sure is a valid assumption. Running TWTAs

Re: [time-nuts] time-nuts Digest, Vol 108, Issue 55

2013-07-10 Thread Jim Lux
On 7/10/13 2:15 PM, Max Robinson wrote: I think that luminous dial watches still contain a little tritium to keep them glowing for many hours after the atoms that were excited by visible photons have all decayed. Without the tritium the glow would completely go dark after most of the atoms have

Re: [time-nuts] Very stable synthesizer, alternative to PTS(Programmed Test Sources) x10 or 040?

2013-07-10 Thread Jim Lux
On 7/10/13 12:29 PM, Didier Juges wrote: Jim said: It's like a HP 8663B (not the modern Agilent E8663).. very low noise, The Agilent E8663 has similar SSB phase noise spec as the older HP 8662A (-144dBc/Hz @ 10 kHz with option UNY, versus -143 for the 8662). You seem to imply

Re: [time-nuts] The word, Radiation as a boogieman...

2013-07-09 Thread Jim Lux
On 7/9/13 7:01 AM, Burt I. Weiner wrote: John, Unfortunately, there's a lot of money in fear. Being in broadcast engineering I learned as long time ago to never use the words, radiation or radiate a signal when referring to a station's signal. Instead, I refer to it as, Launch or Launched a

Re: [time-nuts] Speaking of Costas loops (WAAS)

2013-07-06 Thread Jim Lux
On 7/6/13 8:10 AM, jmfranke wrote: http://www.navipedia.net/index.php/WAAS_Signal_Structure Doppler Shift: The Doppler shift, as perceived by a stationary user, on the signal broadcast by WAAS GEOs is less than 40 meters per second (?210 Hz at L1) in the worst case (at the end of life of the

Re: [time-nuts] Speaking of Costas loops (WAAS)

2013-07-06 Thread Jim Lux
On 7/6/13 7:50 AM, Joseph Gwinn wrote: Re: time-nuts Digest, Vol 108, Issue 29 On Fri, 05 Jul 2013 19:55:42 -0400, time-nuts-requ...@febo.com wrote: OK. Given that the birds WAAS uses were built for communications purposes, not timing purposes, I'g guess that their frequency reference is a

Re: [time-nuts] Nortel Trimble thunderbolt

2013-07-06 Thread Jim Sanford
. No matter what I do, Lady Heather reports no serial communications on comm/x. /Thanks 73, Jim wb4...@amsat.org / / On 7/6/2013 10:44 AM, Ed Palmer wrote: Certainly if you need a full implementation with various control leads you might have to dig out the breakout box and figure it out. But the volts

Re: [time-nuts] Nortel Trimble thunderbolt

2013-07-06 Thread Jim Sanford
or RS232 levels. It might put out some kind of startup message on powerup. Ed On 7/6/2013 10:56 AM, Jim Sanford wrote: All: This is still not going well. I have tried 3 different computers, 2 running Win7 and one running XP. the XP machine successfully controls an Icom radio on the same

Re: [time-nuts] Nortel Trimble thunderbolt

2013-07-06 Thread Jim Sanford
the problem was caused by the internal com cable which had a factory reversed connector that was unnoticed before. I had put the full story recently on this list. Regards, Ignacio EB4APL On 06/07/2013 18:56, Jim Sanford wrote: All: This is still not going well. I have tried 3 different

Re: [time-nuts] Speaking of Costas loops (WAAS)

2013-07-06 Thread Jim Lux
On 7/6/13 9:29 AM, Joseph Gwinn wrote: Code/Carrier Frequency Coherence: The lack of coherence between the broadcast carrier phase and the code phase shall be limited. The short term (10sec) fractional frequency difference between the code phase rate and the carrier frequency shall be less than

Re: [time-nuts] Nortel Trimble thunderbolt

2013-07-06 Thread Jim Sanford
OPEN. Thanks for all the help! 73, Jim wb4...@amsat.org ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.

Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B dropping mains voltage

2013-07-06 Thread Jim Lux
On 7/6/13 2:39 PM, Mark C. Stephens wrote: How Does that Work Robert? I mean why out of phase? Then the voltage on the secondary of the buck transformer is subtracted from the line voltage. This is a very common thing commercially where you have what's called a buck/boost transformer to

Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B Leds pulsing slowly, buttons selecting normally, PB LEDS scannning and appears to be reading o/k

2013-07-06 Thread Jim Lux
On 7/6/13 2:46 PM, Mark C. Stephens wrote: Hopefully HP Voltage Derated the Cap as well so it can handle our 250V here.. We are across the road from the main transformer for the area so the voltage is highest at our place, I checked the meter box this morning - it is 255-258V on all 3 phases,

Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B dropping mains voltage...

2013-07-06 Thread Jim Lux
On 7/6/13 5:26 PM, Mark C. Stephens wrote: The elephant in the room thing with me is SAFETY :) I mean, can this be a fire hazard, what about the insulation breakdown on the secondary winding etc.. Most transformers have a voltage rating on ALL windings that is greater than several times

Re: [time-nuts] Speaking of Costas loops (WAAS)

2013-07-06 Thread Jim Lux
On 7/6/13 7:23 PM, Bob Camp wrote: Hi Ok, lets *assume* there is some uber secret gizmo in the sat that makes the unsupervised signal absolutely perfect when transmitted from the sat. The sat still moves relative to the ground. It's speed is a vector in three dimensions (up / down , north /

Re: [time-nuts] Z3801 replacement

2013-07-05 Thread Jim Sanford
All: I purchased and am about to hook up the Nortel device. Someone on this list expressed an interest in my old Z3801, but I lost the email. If still interested, please contact me off list. Thanks 73, Jim wb4...@amsat.org On 6/28/2013 9:45 AM, Jim Sanford wrote: All: My Z3801

Re: [time-nuts] Speaking of Costas loops

2013-07-05 Thread Jim Lux
On 7/5/13 8:44 AM, Bob Stewart wrote: Wouldn't a Cs or Rb clock in orbit be slow due to relativistic effects? I'm pretty sure there is a relativistic correction to the GPS clocks. Bob - AE6RV I believe that the original WAAS repurposed transponders intended for other L-band satellite

[time-nuts] Nortel Trimble thunderbolt

2013-07-05 Thread Jim Sanford
a few minutes, the green LOCK LED came on. It appears that the Nortel is working. Is there something I'm missing about making these two play nicely together?? Thanks 73, Jim wb4...@amsat.org ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com

Re: [time-nuts] Nortel Trimble thunderbolt

2013-07-05 Thread Jim Sanford
Just opened it up . . . there is no cable. Only one board; the DB-9 connector is on the board. Jim On 7/5/2013 4:46 PM, Mark Sims wrote: Most likely the cable to that front panel board is connected wrong. The people that laid out the boards messed up the keying. Connecting it the obvious

Re: [time-nuts] Speaking of Costas loops

2013-07-05 Thread Jim Lux
On 7/5/13 11:37 AM, Attila Kinali wrote: On Fri, 5 Jul 2013 12:14:20 -0400 Bob Camp li...@rtty.us wrote: Indeed the atomic clocks on sats are set up so they can tune far enough to take out the relativistic effects. That (and a bunch of other things) makes them somewhat more expensive than

[time-nuts] WAAS/Inmarsat-3

2013-07-05 Thread Jim Lux
An ION paper by Nagle, et al. Nagle, J. R., Van Dierendonck, A. J., Hua, Q. D., INMARSAT-3 NAVIGATION SIGNAL C/A CODE SELECTION AND INTERFERENCE ANALYSIS, NAVIGATION, Journal of The Institute of Navigation, Vol. 39, No. 4, Winter 1992-1993, pp. 445-462. Inmarsat-3, the next generation of

Re: [time-nuts] Speaking of Costas loops

2013-07-04 Thread Jim Lux
On 7/3/13 12:42 PM, Azelio Boriani wrote: Sure about the bent pipe? If so it seems that much power is required at the transmitting ground station... Much equivalent power is required. If you have a 20 meter or so antenna, it doesn't take much to get a pretty high EIRP.

Re: [time-nuts] Speaking of Costas loops

2013-07-04 Thread Jim Lux
On 7/3/13 2:21 PM, Dennis Ferguson wrote: On 3 Jul, 2013, at 11:47 , Bob Camp li...@rtty.us wrote: The pipe in this case is up on one frequency and down on another. The conversion oscillator on satellite that's the weak link, no matter how good the signal from the ground happens to be.

Re: [time-nuts] Speaking of Costas loops

2013-07-04 Thread Jim Lux
On 7/4/13 7:33 AM, Didier Juges wrote: That works well for transponders with o LY one signal. On commercial satellites, each transponder is shared among multiple signals, so that would not work. Ah, yes.. if it's a linear transponder/translator..

Re: [time-nuts] High Accuracy Averaging Was: Speaking of Costas loops

2013-07-03 Thread Jim Lux
On 7/3/13 6:58 AM, Bob Camp wrote: Hi Since the LEA6-T will do conventional RINEX dumps, I suspect that all they are doing is very long averaging on the data. I doubt the LEA6-T is the magic part of the setup. or sending the RINEX files to JPL for processing...If you don't need real time

Re: [time-nuts] The auction site?

2013-07-02 Thread Jim Lux
On 7/2/13 7:41 AM, J. Forster wrote: A few years back, some Group Owners, especially of ham lists, outlawed the mention of eBay, because the concept of selling something to the highest bidder somehow offended 'the ham ethic' that stuff should go to the 'most needy or deserving' as measured by

[time-nuts] Smithsonian Time/Nav Exhibit

2013-07-01 Thread Jim Lux
I had a chance to go through the Time and Navigation exhibit at the National Air and Space Museum last week. From a time standpoint, there's probably not much there that time-nuts don't know already, but it's kind of cool to see cleaned up examples of equipment from days gone by. (there's an

Re: [time-nuts] Regulator choices

2013-06-30 Thread Jim Lux
On 6/30/13 7:43 AM, Charles P. Steinmetz wrote: A three-terminal regulator (3TR) comprises (i) a voltage reference, (ii) an error amp, and (iii) a current amplifier. There is no need to duplicate the voltage reference or the error amp just because you need more current. In fact, they can only

Re: [time-nuts] Regulator choices

2013-06-30 Thread Jim Lux
On 6/30/13 8:48 AM, Brian Alsop wrote: Maybe I read the original posting wrong but I think this thread has departed greatly from the original posting. What I thought the posting said: 1) The already present transformer can produce ~20 V DC unregulated at sufficient current. 2) The desire was to

Re: [time-nuts] Regulator choices

2013-06-30 Thread Jim Lux
On 6/30/13 12:35 PM, Bob Stewart wrote: I believe the original problem was that the raw unregulated voltage may be marginally too high for a conventional three-terminal to take safely Hi Ed, Not really. The voltage is in line with the product specs for a 7812 (35V max), as is the current I

[time-nuts] Z3801 replacement

2013-06-28 Thread Jim Sanford
NTBW50AA, a Symmetricom, NTBW50AA, and another Nortel. Does anybody have experience with these? I'm particularly interested in the best phase noise I can get. This will be station master frequency reference, and will ultimately lock stations up to 10 GHz. Thanks 73, Jim wb4...@amsat.org

Re: [time-nuts] Z3801 replacement

2013-06-28 Thread Jim Sanford
and then from there to 2Ghz, 3Ghz, and 5. Haven't decided about 10 Ghz yet. Appreciate the info. The units on ebay are cheaper than the VCXO I was considering (first time I looked, they were more), so will probably just do that. Thanks again, Jim wb4...@amsat.org On 6/28/2013 10:07 AM, Bob Camp wrote

Re: [time-nuts] OT Prototype Boards

2013-06-26 Thread Jim Palfreyman
Oh dear. Please go metric US. Please. We will help you. Jim On 27 June 2013 11:33, Hal Murray hmur...@megapathdsl.net wrote: j...@quikus.com said: There WERE (past tense) a number of definitions of the inch, ranging from lines on bars of PtIr to a string of grain kernels. Now

Re: [time-nuts] Measuring speed of light or reproducing a metre

2013-06-25 Thread Jim Lux
On 6/24/13 6:48 PM, Tom Miller wrote: I wonder what the actual distance is using current GPS survey processes? Tom SLightly different, because there are some faults running across there and there have been some earthquakes with displacement.

Re: [time-nuts] Measuring speed of light or reproducing a metre

2013-06-24 Thread Jim Lux
On 6/23/13 10:48 PM, DaveH wrote: Something a bit similar was first published by Nick Hood in 2007. Here is a copy: http://www.sciencebuddies.org/science-fair-projects/project_ideas/Phys_p056. shtml Here is Nick's website: http://cullaloe.com/ Some people use marshmallows. Dave the only

Re: [time-nuts] Measuring speed of light or reproducing a metre

2013-06-24 Thread Jim Lux
On 6/24/13 10:08 AM, Chris Albertson wrote: Using only moderately accurate equipment, like mechanical clocks and meter sticks Albert Michelson has able to measure the speed of light and determine it was a constant in all directions. It was this work the prompted Albert Einstein to think about

Re: [time-nuts] Measuring speed of light or reproducing a metre

2013-06-24 Thread Jim Lux
On 6/24/13 5:21 AM, Brian Alsop wrote: The time issue was effectively eliminated by the Michaelson-Morley interferometer. One used a monochromatic light and an array of mirrors which split the light in opposite directions around the track. The two beams were recombined and an interference

Re: [time-nuts] Measuring speed of light or reproducing a metre

2013-06-24 Thread Jim Lux
On 6/24/13 2:26 PM, Chris Albertson wrote: On Mon, Jun 24, 2013 at 1:55 PM, Jim Lux jim...@earthlink.net wrote: On 6/24/13 10:08 AM, Chris Albertson wrote: Isn't that the Fizeau technique, which antedates Michelson's? Michelson got the precision good enough that it finally put

Re: [time-nuts] tube GPS receivers

2013-06-24 Thread Jim Lux
On 6/24/13 3:01 PM, Bob Camp wrote: Hi I'm not so sure that slow would work. With all the sat's moving various directions all the time, I suspect you need to do a solution fairly quickly. If you don't the stale data messes up the solution. Also you need the correlators to work fast enough to

Re: [time-nuts] Measuring speed of light or reproducing a metre

2013-06-24 Thread Jim Lux
On 6/24/13 4:16 PM, jmfranke wrote: The tuning fork was used with a clock. The clock was checked against astronomical measurements. http://www.schoolphysics.co.uk/age16-19/Wave%20properties/Wave%20properties/text/Speed_of%20light/index.html

[time-nuts] Measuring speed of light or reproducing a metre

2013-06-23 Thread Jim Palfreyman
Hi all, With a 3325B, a 5370B, and other time-nut miscellany, what's the quickest way you can come up with to measure the speed of light OR reproduce the metre. I've got some ideas, but I'd like others' thoughts. Jim ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time

Re: [time-nuts] Measuring speed of light or reproducing a metre

2013-06-23 Thread Jim Palfreyman
My actual application is as a quick cool demo showing what I can do with this gear in my garage when people go why? :-) On 24 June 2013 09:22, Magnus Danielson mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org wrote: Hi Jim, On 06/24/2013 01:03 AM, Jim Palfreyman wrote: Hi all, With a 3325B, a 5370B

Re: [time-nuts] tube GPS receivers

2013-06-23 Thread Jim Lux
On 6/23/13 10:47 AM, Chris Albertson wrote: Magnetic cores were not invented until the 1950's and realy cam into use as tubes were beibg replaced by SS. But there isnot reason yu can't build a tube computer with core memory. I have actually seen and used a computer that had one megabyte of

Re: [time-nuts] tube GPS receivers

2013-06-23 Thread Jim Lux
On 6/23/13 2:50 PM, Paul Berger wrote: Hi: The SAGE computers, which I had the pleasure of seeing the last two operating, had an all vacuum tube array of core that consisted of 33 planes of 64 x64 cores for about 16K worth of memory. I was wondering about the Q7.. it was all vacuum tube, but

[time-nuts] tube GPS receivers

2013-06-22 Thread Jim Lux
I think that doing the PN code and correlator is something that could be done with tubes (especially if you didn't want to go P-code). I suppose you could use a counter to record the changes in code phase as you scan for the correlation peak, so that gets you your numeric code phase. Getting

Re: [time-nuts] tube GPS receivers

2013-06-22 Thread Jim Lux
On 6/22/13 3:28 PM, Magnus Danielson wrote: On 06/23/2013 12:04 AM, Jim Lux wrote: I think that doing the PN code and correlator is something that could be done with tubes (especially if you didn't want to go P-code). I suppose you could use a counter to record the changes in code phase as you

Re: [time-nuts] tube GPS receivers

2013-06-22 Thread Jim Lux
On 6/22/13 4:38 PM, Magnus Danielson wrote: electromechanical.. like omega receivers. rotary transformers can do very high quality trig functions, but do you actually need trig functions assuming you're just solving for X,Y,Z,T. Oh yes. Check IS-GPS-200F, clause 20.3.3.4.3 User Algorithm for

Re: [time-nuts] tube GPS receivers

2013-06-22 Thread Jim Lux
On 6/22/13 5:35 PM, Bob Camp wrote: Hi How stable a 1.023 oscillator? How much pull range on that oscillator? H….. Doppler is the big component..several kHz.. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to

Re: [time-nuts] Grinding crystals...

2013-06-20 Thread Jim Lux
On 6/20/13 4:57 PM, Gary wrote: A common scheme in metal deposition measurement is to measure the frequency of a crystal prior to starting the deposition process, then monitoring the frequency shift of the crystal as the metal is sputtered. I was told crystals are tuned this way at the

Re: [time-nuts] HP and other equipment failure

2013-06-17 Thread Jim Lux
On 6/17/13 5:33 AM, Peter Gottlieb wrote: The current distortion from simple transformer-rectifier-capacitor power supplies contains a lot of third harmonic content. In a 3 phase system (as are all distribution systems for commercial and industrial) the third harmonic ADDS in the neutral, or

Re: [time-nuts] HP and other equipment failure

2013-06-17 Thread Jim Lux
On 6/17/13 10:39 AM, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: In message 51bf15a8.40...@earthlink.net, Jim Lux writes: The issue also arises with fluorescent [...] As folks transitioned to the newer ballasts, the non-sinusoidal current problem probably got worse. I don't know about US, but in EU

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