Re: [time-nuts] HP 105B: Modern replacement for NiCad battery pack?

Ulf - Yes, this question, about the HP 105B, was asked in September 2016. https://www.febo.com/pipermail/time-nuts/2016-September/100436.html In Europe, it is virtually impossible (RoHS) to acquire NiCad batteries for past decade — unless you are an exempt entity. IF you desire a DIY Build,

Re: [time-nuts] HP 105B: Modern replacement for NiCad battery pack?

I have two Powerex MH-808M for sixteen cells. I have two 105B and I have modified them with a custom connector and holder so that I can remove the cells and charge them in the 808, then put them back, disconnecting the trickle charger. Ian -- ___

Re: [time-nuts] HP 105B: Modern replacement for NiCad battery pack?

On Behalf Of Brooke Clarke Sent: Friday, January 5, 2018 11:48 AM To: Ulf Kylenfall via time-nuts Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 105B: Modern replacement for NiCad battery pack? Hi Ulf: There's another problem with switching to Ni-MH and that's related to the heat generated when charging them.  You

Re: [time-nuts] HP 105B: Modern replacement for NiCad battery pack?

, but the accountants insisted I use cells from China at half the price. Cost us a 100% recall of battery packs. -Original Message- From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Mark Sims Sent: Friday, January 5, 2018 10:54 AM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: [time-nuts] HP

Re: [time-nuts] HP 105B: Modern replacement for NiCad battery pack?

Hi Ulf: There's another problem with switching to Ni-MH and that's related to the heat generated when charging them.  You can charge Ni-Cad batteries without monitoring the pack temperature, but with Ni-MH cells you must monitor the pack temperature.  I would suggest avoiding the Ni-MH option. 

[time-nuts] HP 105B: Modern replacement for NiCad battery pack?

Since NiMH cells typically have over twice the capacity of NiCad cells, a C/10 charger will charge them at less than C/20.It's best to trickle charge NiMH cells in the C/30 to C/40 range, but depending on the cell C/20 might be OK. Measure your charge current on a discharged pack and

Re: [time-nuts] HP 105B: Modern replacement for NiCad battery pack?

5, 2018 10:00 AM > To: Ulf Kylenfall; Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 105B: Modern replacement for NiCad battery pack? > > Ulf > A drop in replacement for nicads is nickle metal hydride or NiMh. Nicads are > still available but can be

Re: [time-nuts] HP 105B: Modern replacement for NiCad battery pack?

and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 105B: Modern replacement for NiCad battery pack? Ulf A drop in replacement for nicads is nickle metal hydride or NiMh. Nicads are still available but can be expensive. The other comment I would make is the 1970s charging circuits were pretty crude

Re: [time-nuts] HP 105B: Modern replacement for NiCad battery pack?

Ulf A drop in replacement for nicads is nickle metal hydride or NiMh. Nicads are still available but can be expensive. The other comment I would make is the 1970s charging circuits were pretty crude and lead to boiled batteries. If your going to invest in an internal battery you may want to

[time-nuts] HP 105B: Modern replacement for NiCad battery pack?

Gentlemen, I may have asked this question before... I am looking for a modern replacement for the NiCadbattery pack used in the HP 105B. One such 105that I salvaged have been standing on a shelf with thebatteries "happily boiling away". So, what kind of chemistry would be possible to

[time-nuts] HP 105B FS

The unit has been sold. Regards, Perrier ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.

[time-nuts] HP 105B FS

List, I'm selling my HP 105B that has been "cooking" for the last 6 months and the meter readings are all in the OK region and has a 5 MHz output which hasn't been calibrated. It has the pre-10811 10 MHz oscillator type and the PS is the of the earlier version where the regulating transistor

Re: [time-nuts] HP 105B Battery the saga continues

That NiCad pack is part of the power supply and as Jeremy points out is part of the filter system.And so one needs to restore it as part of the instrument as even the 28V external power supply floats these cells and trips power interruption indicator if lost Power supply is not terribly

Re: [time-nuts] HP 105B Battery the saga continues

How did you come up with the 33,000 uF number, Perry, and is it one big capacitor or lots of little ones tied together? The big cap will also filter out some of the remaining ripple in the power supply that may have been managed by the ni-cad battery. Jeremy On 9/17/2016 3:50 PM, Perry

[time-nuts] HP 105B Battery the saga continues

Hi, The battery problem becomes more convoluted every day. Due to family medical issues I have not been able to do any testing/repairing. The 105B charger is set up for nicads using some selected un-alterable charging rate so to use an internal lead acid setup requires a different ps. My unit

Re: [time-nuts] HP-105B Battery Replacement?

Hi Attila: The difference in chemistry I got from "Handbook of Batteries" 3rd ed, 2001. Your comments about modern chargers are correct, but this thread is about the HP 105 which uses what we both might call an old fashioned charging circuit. -- Have Fun, Brooke Clarke http://www.PRC68.com

Re: [time-nuts] HP-105B Battery Replacement?

On Sat, 17 Sep 2016 12:03:47 +0200 Attila Kinali wrote: > Hence people > were adviced to use only NiCd fast-chargers which had a temperature sensor. Addendum: The other "classical" NiCd fast-charger architecture used the fast rise in temperature when the battery was full to

Re: [time-nuts] HP-105B Battery Replacement?

On Fri, 16 Sep 2016 11:37:23 -0700 Brooke Clarke wrote: > The chemistries are very different. Ni-Cad is endothermic whereas Ni-MH is > Exothermic. This is why chargers for Ni-MH > have a mandatory temperature sensor. This is one of the reasons I say Ni- > Cad cells

Re: [time-nuts] HP-105B Battery Replacement?

It has been my experience that both chemistries have thermal cutouts for overcharge limiting and both can use chargers that detect the negative voltage slope when the cells heat up once they are fully charged, hence the ability to use the same chargers for NiCd and NiMH. I have many radios

[time-nuts] HP-105B Manual

[I keep forgetting to send these messages in plain text only. Sorry!] Somewhere in one of these 105B discussions were some comments on the manual and its enormous set of change sheets. So I asked my wife, the former Laura Cline of HP Santa Clara marketing (post-sales support), "Why didn't you

Re: [time-nuts] HP-105B Battery Replacement?

I have a pair of Liebert GTX2-700RT online UPSes and they work well; I just replaced the batteries, lubricated the fans, and cleaned the dust out of them a couple weeks ago. They have that sort of standard 4 prong socket on the back for external batteries. But unlike my two Powerware Prestige

Re: [time-nuts] HP-105B Battery Replacement?

High end standby UPSes support external batteries but most or all online UPSes do. I have 3 different online UPS models and they all support external batteries of either 48 or 60 volts. On Thu, 15 Sep 2016 15:13:59 -0700, you wrote: >Since I have a 12V 100 A-H gelled electrolyte battery as a

Re: [time-nuts] HP-105B Battery Replacement?

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Re: [time-nuts] HP-105B Battery Replacement?

Hi David: The chemistries are very different. Ni-Cad is endothermic whereas Ni-MH is Exothermic. This is why chargers for Ni-MH have a mandatory temperature sensor. This is one of the reasons I say Ni-Cad cells batteries are easy to charge. -- Have Fun, Brooke Clarke http://www.PRC68.com

Re: [time-nuts] HP-105B Battery Replacement?

Hi Any time you get into UPS designs, they are all over the map … > On Sep 16, 2016, at 1:01 PM, Gary E. Miller wrote: > > Yo Hal! > > On Fri, 16 Sep 2016 00:50:56 -0700 > Hal Murray wrote: > >> g...@rellim.com said: >>> APC UPS can't handle the

Re: [time-nuts] HP-105B Battery Replacement?

Yo Hal! On Fri, 16 Sep 2016 00:50:56 -0700 Hal Murray wrote: > g...@rellim.com said: > > APC UPS can't handle the longer runtime, but never had a problem > > with any version of CyberPower. > > There are two parameters for UPS boxes. One is the power the >

[time-nuts] HP-105B Manual

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Re: [time-nuts] HP-105B Battery Replacement?

Actually the larger SmartUPS series can run for hours providing a large enough battery string is available I have a SmartUPS RM3000 running data rack this has 2 external battery boxes and will run everything for 6 hours. For TimeNuts applications though I'd recommend a Liebert UPS as this

Re: [time-nuts] HP-105B Battery Replacement?

g...@rellim.com said: > APC UPS can't handle the longer runtime, but never had a problem with any > version of CyberPower. There are two parameters for UPS boxes. One is the power the electronics can handle. The other is the amount of energy the batteries can hold. I think some of the

Re: [time-nuts] HP-105B Battery Replacement?

> Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2016 at 7:12 PM > > From: "Andy ZL3AG" <zl...@radioengineering.com <javascript:;>> > > To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" < > time-nuts@febo.com <javascript:;>> > > Subject: Re:

Re: [time-nuts] HP-105B Battery Replacement?

NiMH batteries are close the same voltage and charge the same as NiCd and are more available and not toxic when disposing of them. They should be a good replacement. Lithiums are very different in voltage and charging. David N1HAC On 9/14/16 10:19 PM, Jeremy Nichols wrote: Thanks, Brooke,

Re: [time-nuts] HP-105B Battery Replacement?

adioengineering.com> > To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" > <time-nuts@febo.com> > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP-105B Battery Replacement? > > > If you know where to get them from, you can get used 19" rack mount UPS's for > scrap

Re: [time-nuts] HP-105B Battery Replacement?

In my experience the commonly seen UPS's that support external batteries expect you to use the batteries supplied (or at least specified) by the manufacturer. That being said I have come across UPS systems that are designed to work with generic user supplied 12 volt batteries but in my

Re: [time-nuts] HP-105B Battery Replacement?

If you know where to get them from, you can get used 19" rack mount UPS's for scrap value. They might have fried batteries, but that's easily solved. On 16/09/2016, at 11:06 AM, Bob kb8tq wrote: > Hi > > They are very common when you look at server UPS or larger units. There are >

Re: [time-nuts] HP-105B Battery Replacement?

Hi They are very common when you look at server UPS or larger units. There are literally hundreds of models to pick between. Prices are from roughly $400 up to a few hundred thousand dollars per unit. Bob > On Sep 15, 2016, at 6:13 PM, Jeremy Nichols wrote: > > Since I

Re: [time-nuts] HP-105B Battery Replacement?

APC has made UPS that take both internal and external batteries. My house runs on a 2KW APC in bad times and they seem to run just fine. Granted the battery is a drop bigger then we are speaking of here and I use a separate 55 amp precision charger. Love that telco stuff. But these are the serious

Re: [time-nuts] HP-105B Battery Replacement?

Look for a POWERVAR model ABCE150-11M2. It has an IEC plug and connector for 120 Volt in and out along with a yellow SB-50 connector for the 12 VDC battery connector. Compatible with LiFePO4 and SLA battery chemistries On 9/15/2016 6:21 PM, Mark Spencer wrote: They do exist. I've

Re: [time-nuts] HP-105B Battery Replacement?

Yo Jeremy! On Thu, 15 Sep 2016 15:13:59 -0700 Jeremy Nichols wrote: > I'd like to find a UPS that uses an external battery. So > far I don't see such a thing--do they exist? Not in the store, but they are easy to make. I take consumer grade CyberPower sine wave supplies.

Re: [time-nuts] HP-105B Battery Replacement?

Thanks I was aware of Ni Fe batteries but have never seen them for sale at the local "battery store" where I buy batteries for my vehicles, time nuts and amateur radio pursuits (: I view lead acid batteries (especially ones designed for in door use) as semi expendable for my various hobbies.

Re: [time-nuts] HP-105B Battery Replacement?

They do exist. I've seen them in service at Telecom sites outside of the U.S. and Canada. I believe there was a thread re this a few years ago ? Sent from my iPhone > On Sep 15, 2016, at 3:13 PM, Jeremy Nichols wrote: > > Since I have a 12V 100 A-H gelled electrolyte

Re: [time-nuts] HP-105B Battery Replacement?

Since I have a 12V 100 A-H gelled electrolyte battery as a short-term backup (for those outages not worth firing up the generator), I'd like to find a UPS that uses an external battery. So far I don't see such a thing--do they exist? Jeremy On Thursday, September 15, 2016, Bob Camp

Re: [time-nuts] HP-105B Battery Replacement?

if you deep discharge led acid batteries -- which are not made special for deep discharge -- you will have to replace them quite often, on the other hand Ni-Fe batteries you could short out, overcharge they are undisrtuktable that is the reason why they are not produced any more in the US,

Re: [time-nuts] HP-105B Battery Replacement?

Hi It’s been quite a while since I bought anything other than a pure sine UPS. They really aren’t as expensive as they once were. You may find them a bit cheaper from outfits like CyberPower than from APC. Sometimes it s a bit tough to work out exactly what is or is not a pure sine wave unit.

Re: [time-nuts] HP-105B Battery Replacement?

Hi I've run my HP105B (with the old style oscillator) from AC power via a consumer grade UPS, 24 Vdc from a lead acid battery bank and briefly from the internal battery pack with out any notable changes in performance (that being said I can't measure phase noise so this observation may or may

Re: [time-nuts] HP-105B Battery Replacement?

Your point is well made. My question is: what happens to the quality of the output sine wave if I use anything other than a true sine-wave (i.e., expensive) UPS? Most of them these days produce a semi-sine wave (aka modified square wave) that may or may not play well with the 105B. Anyone have

Re: [time-nuts] HP-105B Battery Replacement?

Brooke, I priced Ni-Cds and was not happy with the numbers: a set of 20 D-size cells will cost me ~US$100 by the time I get them delivered. That plus the 8-pound weight penalty makes replacement Ni-Cd cells unattractive. (105A = 16 pounds, 105B = 24 pounds including the battery box and

Re: [time-nuts] HP-105B Battery Replacement?

I had my local BatteriesPlus rebuild my pack for my 105B about 4 years ago and it's still working well as I recall the cost was about 175. But I specified use best quality cells. Plus they have the proper battery welder and test gear and they have more vendor clout to get consistently good

Re: [time-nuts] HP-105B Battery Replacement?

Brookes comments are the facts you can not use simple charging circuits. But smart charging circuits seem to be available on various sites for low cost. It seems the RC modelers have helped us out. The thing I will say is I have ordered new nicad C cell batteries from major a major vendor and they

Re: [time-nuts] HP-105B Battery Replacement?

Hi A bigger question becomes: Do batteries inside equipment make much sense anymore? These days, a UPS is often a standard part of a rack in an outage prone area. Powering the “whatever” instrument off of the same UPS as the rest of the stuff is one obvious answer. The other answer is an

Re: [time-nuts] HP-105B Battery Replacement?

Hi Jeremy: I'm currently having fun playing with various rechargeable battery related stuff which includes Li-Ion cells. http://www.prc68.com/I/BatTst.shtml#Resistor The cells come in three configurations: 1. the raw flat top cell with optional tabs to allow easy soldering into a pack, 2. cell

Re: [time-nuts] HP-105B Battery Replacement?

Thanks, Brooke, I'll price new Ni-Cads. I wasn't thinking of lead-acid (gel cells) but rather lithium rechargeable, providing I can find a type that won't catch fire and will work with the 105B'scircuits. Jeremy On Wednesday, September 14, 2016, Brooke Clarke wrote: > Hi

Re: [time-nuts] HP-105B Battery Replacement?

Hi Alex: Yes, I'm recommending Ni-Cad but NOT any acid type. -- Have Fun, Brooke Clarke http://www.PRC68.com http://www.end2partygovernment.com/2012Issues.html The lesser of evils is still evil. Original Message Hi Brooke, sorry I have to disappoint you; Ni-Cd batteries do

Re: [time-nuts] HP-105B Battery Replacement?

Hi Brooke, sorry I have to disappoint you; Ni-Cd batteries do not use any acid, they have K-OH kalium hidrioxid [potassium hydroxide for anglophone ] as electrolyte and they are normally very air-tide, and widely used in radios. 73 KJ6UHN Alex On 9/14/2016 4:45 PM, Brooke Clarke

Re: [time-nuts] HP-105B Battery Replacement?

Hi Jeremy: It's a very bad idea to put any battery with acid in an enclosure that has electronics since if it vents the acid will etch the PCBs. Guess how I learned this. I got a great price on a Gibbs Frequency Standard because the oven no longer worked. http://prc68.com/I/office_equip.html

[time-nuts] HP-105B Battery Replacement?

I recently acquired a nice HP-105B, serial prefix 1240A, and like Perry Sandeen (posted here 10 May 2016) was pleasantly surprised to find a 10811-type oscillator inside in place of the old blue oven. Well, the oscillator isn't actually labelled "10811" but has a label "Serial No. 3010A62646 /

[time-nuts] HP-105B Battery Replacement?

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Re: [time-nuts] HP 105B oscillator

- Original Message - From: "Perry Sandeen via time-nuts" <time-nuts@febo.com> To: <time-nuts@febo.com> Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2016 12:10 AM Subject: [time-nuts] HP 105B oscillator List, I purchased a HP 105B oscillator on ebay and it arrived today. Previous to getti

[time-nuts] HP 105B oscillator

List, I purchased a HP 105B oscillator on ebay and it arrived today.  Previous to getting it I D/L the manual and brief;y perused it. So when I popped open the top cover to see the internal parts, what to my wondering eyes appeared Not the A1 module shown in the manual but a 10811 lookalike.

Re: [time-nuts] HP 105B power supply noise

--- On Thu, 25/2/10, Ralph Devoe rgde...@gmail.com wrote: From: Ralph Devoe rgde...@gmail.com Subject: [time-nuts] HP 105B power supply noise To: time-nuts@febo.com Date: Thursday, 25 February, 2010, 17:05 Speaking of low-noise regulators, I have an HP 105B standard that has a burned up regulator

Re: [time-nuts] HP 105B Modification

I was thinking that I might be reinventing the wheel by designing a buffer amp. You guys have almost built the entire car! Thanks again for the ideas. It'll take me a while to get it built and tested. Ed Bruce Griffiths wrote: John Miles wrote: If it helps I can send you some LTSpice

Re: [time-nuts] HP 105B Modification

Hi all, indeed this is very interesting, can this buffer amplifier be used as a building block for a distribution amplifier for the 10 MHz signal of a thunderbolt? I remember having seen on the list a similar version but with european transistors (like the ubiquitous bc548/bc558?) that are very

Re: [time-nuts] HP 105B Modification

Francesco Yes, just keep the gain of each stage low and cascade 2 or3 if you need higher reverse isolation. Since the input impedance is around 1k (predominantly capacitive) at 10MHz you can drive several in parallel from a 50 ohm source. If needed you can add a bridged T-coil network at the

Re: [time-nuts] HP 105B Modification

Hello Bruce, On 12/9/09, Bruce Griffiths bruce.griffi...@xtra.co.nz wrote: Francesco Yes, just keep the gain of each stage low and cascade 2 or3 if you need higher reverse isolation. Since the input impedance is around 1k (predominantly capacitive) at 10MHz you can drive several in

Re: [time-nuts] HP 105B Modification

On Wed, 09 Dec 2009 15:08:15 +1300, you wrote: Another point is the LTSpice LED model isn't particularly accurate for simulating the effects of temperature variations. Does anyone knows of more accurate LTSpice compatible LED models? The LED model voltage drop increases with temperature even

Re: [time-nuts] HP 105B Modification

Francesco francesco messineo wrote: Hello Bruce, On 12/9/09, Bruce Griffithsbruce.griffi...@xtra.co.nz wrote: Francesco Yes, just keep the gain of each stage low and cascade 2 or3 if you need higher reverse isolation. Since the input impedance is around 1k (predominantly capacitive)

Re: [time-nuts] HP 105B Modification

Gerhard Hoffmann wrote: On Wed, 09 Dec 2009 15:08:15 +1300, you wrote: Another point is the LTSpice LED model isn't particularly accurate for simulating the effects of temperature variations. Does anyone knows of more accurate LTSpice compatible LED models? The LED model voltage drop

Re: [time-nuts] HP 105B Modification

Ed The attached circuit is for a JFET input transformer feedback amplifier with a relatively high input impedance at 10MHz along with relatively low noise and distortion. A Minicircuits T9-1 should suffice for the transformer. The major limitation when using these transformeres is that dc

Re: [time-nuts] HP 105B Modification

If it helps I can send you some LTSpice schematics so that you can simulate the circuit for yourself. The breadboards behave as predicted by the simulations at 10MHz. John Miles has done some preliminary phase noise measurements on his version. The transformers are wound on

Re: [time-nuts] HP 105B Modification

John Miles wrote: If it helps I can send you some LTSpice schematics so that you can simulate the circuit for yourself. The breadboards behave as predicted by the simulations at 10MHz. John Miles has done some preliminary phase noise measurements on his version. The transformers are wound

[time-nuts] HP 105B Modification

I have a late-model 105B Oscillator that's equipped with a 10811-60109 oscillator. It seems a shame to have that nice 10 MHz source without having access to it. I was thinking of adding a buffer amp and bringing out the 10 MHz signal. It shouldn't be too hard, but before I reinvent the

Re: [time-nuts] HP 105B Modification

I have not but agree its not very hard to do. Just depends on the quality of the buffer amp you want to use and the addition of a connector or two. On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 12:03 PM, Ed Palmer ed_pal...@sasktel.net wrote: I have a late-model 105B Oscillator that's equipped with a 10811-60109

Re: [time-nuts] HP 105B Modification

@febo.com Subject: [time-nuts] HP 105B Modification I have a late-model 105B Oscillator that's equipped with a 10811-60109 oscillator. It seems a shame to have that nice 10 MHz source without having access to it. I was thinking of adding a buffer amp and bringing out the 10 MHz signal

Re: [time-nuts] HP 105B Modification

07, 2009 11:04 AM To: Time Nuts Mailing List Subject: [time-nuts] HP 105B Modification I have a late-model 105B Oscillator that's equipped with a 10811-60109 oscillator. It seems a shame to have that nice 10 MHz source without having access to it. I was thinking of adding a buffer amp

Re: [time-nuts] HP 105B Modification

@febo.com Subject: [time-nuts] HP 105B Modification I have a late-model 105B Oscillator that's equipped with a 10811-60109 oscillator. It seems a shame to have that nice 10 MHz source without having access to it. I was thinking of adding a buffer amp and bringing out the 10 MHz signal

Re: [time-nuts] HP 105B Modification

Ed Palmer wrote: I have a late-model 105B Oscillator that's equipped with a 10811-60109 oscillator. It seems a shame to have that nice 10 MHz source without having access to it. I was thinking of adding a buffer amp and bringing out the 10 MHz signal. It shouldn't be too hard, but before I

Re: [time-nuts] HP 105B Modification

...@sasktel.net Date: Mon, 07 Dec 2009 11:03:51 To: Time Nuts Mailing Listtime-nuts@febo.com Subject: [time-nuts] HP 105B Modification I have a late-model 105B Oscillator that's equipped with a 10811-60109 oscillator. It seems a shame to have that nice 10 MHz source without having access to it. I

[time-nuts] HP 105B Modification

Ed, The easiest way is to couple out the 10Mhz from the two pins on the connector holding the 10811 into a Fet input buffer amplifier that can drive 50 ohms. There are lots of FET buffer schematics floating around. Try the radio amateurs handbook or google it. Good Luck! Corby Dawson

Re: [time-nuts] HP 105B Modification

Corby Dawson wrote: Ed, The easiest way is to couple out the 10Mhz from the two pins on the connector holding the 10811 into a Fet input buffer amplifier that can drive 50 ohms. There are lots of FET buffer schematics floating around. Try the radio amateurs handbook or google it. Good Luck!

Re: [time-nuts] HP 105B Modification

: Montag, 7. Dezember 2009 23:17 An: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Betreff: Re: [time-nuts] HP 105B Modification Corby Dawson wrote: Ed, The easiest way is to couple out the 10Mhz from the two pins on the connector holding the 10811 into a Fet input buffer amplifier

Re: [time-nuts] HP 105B Modification

ohms. Very simple and might be just the thing you're looking for. John KB1FSX Sent via BlackBerry by ATT -Original Message- From: Ed Palmer ed_pal...@sasktel.net Date: Mon, 07 Dec 2009 11:03:51 To: Time Nuts Mailing Listtime-nuts@febo.com Subject: [time-nuts] HP 105B Modification I

Re: [time-nuts] HP 105B Modification

Ed Palmer wrote: Yes, I have the same configuration. The part number for the divider board is 05061-6165. The 10811 + daughter boards are used in the 105B, 5061B Cesium, and the 5065A Rubidium. The circuit loading problem is exactly the kind of issue I was expecting. Thanks for the

Re: [time-nuts] HP 105B Modification

Thanks Bruce. This is the kind of info I was looking for. I'll have to study your schematics. The purpose of much of it isn't immediately obvious. :-) Ed Bruce Griffiths wrote: Ed Palmer wrote: I have a late-model 105B Oscillator that's equipped with a 10811-60109 oscillator. It seems

Re: [time-nuts] HP 105B Modification

Perhaps, but given what it's replacing and what it's driving, is the difference significant? Ed Bruce Griffiths wrote: Ed Palmer wrote: Yes, I have the same configuration. The part number for the divider board is 05061-6165. The 10811 + daughter boards are used in the 105B, 5061B Cesium,

Re: [time-nuts] HP 105B Modification

Ed If it helps I can send you some LTSpice schematics so that you can simulate the circuit for yourself. The breadboards behave as predicted by the simulations at 10MHz. John Miles has done some preliminary phase noise measurements on his version. The transformers are wound on binocular

Re: [time-nuts] HP 105B Modification

If you send me the schematic for the circuit in which its used I can answer that question better. Bruce Ed Palmer wrote: Perhaps, but given what it's replacing and what it's driving, is the difference significant? Ed Bruce Griffiths wrote: Ed Palmer wrote: Yes, I have the same

Re: [time-nuts] HP 105B Modification

Ed If it helps I can send you some LTSpice schematics so that you can simulate the circuit for yourself. The breadboards behave as predicted by the simulations at 10MHz. John Miles has done some preliminary phase noise measurements on his version. The transformers are wound on binocular

Re: [time-nuts] HP 105B Modification

That would help. Perhaps they should be added to the web page. I'm sure that I'm not the only one who would be interested. Ed Bruce Griffiths wrote: Ed If it helps I can send you some LTSpice schematics so that you can simulate the circuit for yourself. The breadboards behave as

Re: [time-nuts] HP 105B Modification

The schematic is available here: http://www.murgatroid.com/t_and_m/hp-00105-6100-figs.pdf . It's also available with circuit description waveforms here: http://www.kennethkuhn.com/hpmuseum/scans/hp5065a_part3.pdf on pages 93-101 (pdf pages - not document pages). However, this copy doesn't

Re: [time-nuts] HP 105B Modification

I was wondering about that transformer. Thanks for the cross-reference. Ed John Miles wrote: Ed If it helps I can send you some LTSpice schematics so that you can simulate the circuit for yourself. The breadboards behave as predicted by the simulations at 10MHz. John Miles has done some

Re: [time-nuts] HP 105B Modification

I'll extend the webpage (in the next few days) to include more variations of the circuit as well as the associated LTSpice schematic files. However at some stage a breadboard is necessary to validate the simulations, in particular the effect of transformer parasitics. I have done some

Re: [time-nuts] HP 105B Modification

Since the T13-1 has a centre tapped secondary there are 2 useful amplifier configurations that can be used. One has a nominal gain of about 5dB whereas the other has a gain of around -1dB (can still be useful since the amplifier input impedance at 10Mhz is about 1k when the 51 ohm input shunt

Re: [time-nuts] HP 105B Modification

Ed Given that the divider load current, if one substitutes a 5V CMOS flipflop for the 7474, only increases to about 5mA pp, using a 74HC74 is probably prudent given the PCB layout used, in that it may avoid EMI issues that may be a problem with faster logic. However it may then be prudent to

Re: [time-nuts] HP 105B Modification

Bruce Griffiths wrote: Ed Given that the divider load current, if one substitutes a 5V CMOS flipflop for the 7474, only increases to about 5mA pp, using a 74HC74 is probably prudent given the PCB layout used, in that it may avoid EMI issues that may be a problem with faster logic. However it

[time-nuts] HP 105B Problem?

I just bought an HP 105B Oscillator. It's doing something that may or may not be a problem. I'm hoping that someone can help me out. It's a newer unit that's based on the 10811 oscillator plus two interface boards to adapt the 10811 to the rest of the 105B circuitry. Does anyone have a

Re: [time-nuts] HP 105B Problem?

Likely yes, but check the spec. If the output circuit is a low Zout buffer amp and two separate roughly 50 Ohm resistors, they should be independent. Or, two distinct buffers could be used too. You can do a simple check with an Ohmmeter, with the unit powered OFF. Measure the R between the front

Re: [time-nuts] HP 105B Problem?

Thanks for the reply John. J. Forster wrote: Likely yes, but check the spec. If the output circuit is a low Zout buffer amp and two separate roughly 50 Ohm resistors, they should be independent. Or, two distinct buffers could be used too. Ah yes, the spec that's in the manual that I don't

Re: [time-nuts] HP 105B Problem?

Thanks for the reply John. J. Forster wrote: Likely yes, but check the spec. If the output circuit is a low Zout buffer amp and two separate roughly 50 Ohm resistors, they should be independent. Or, two distinct buffers could be used too. Ah yes, the spec that's in the manual that I don't

Re: [time-nuts] HP 105B Problem?

John, J. Forster wrote: Thanks for the reply John. J. Forster wrote: Likely yes, but check the spec. If the output circuit is a low Zout buffer amp and two separate roughly 50 Ohm resistors, they should be independent. Or, two distinct buffers could be used too. Ah yes, the spec

Re: [time-nuts] HP 105B Problem?

Hi again, I do have a HC manual for an older 105B (bought about 30 years ago) but can't access it at the moment. The 105B is one of the products that Agilent sold to Symmetricom which means that they don't have any info on it. Of course, Symmetricom has no info on the 105B on their site.

Re: [time-nuts] HP 105B Problem?

Hi Ed, IIRC it's normal for the circuit check meter readings to behave squirrelly as you've described for the 3 output checks. I think this function is pretty much only to crudely show that you have (or don't have) each output. As for your 100kHz 1MHz dropping-out when you load your 5MHz

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