Hi
On Jul 8, 2012, at 1:17 AM, David J Taylor wrote:
As an observer from across the pond:
- presumably, the vast majority of users would not be affected.
Yes, the wall clock and wrist watch people (I use both) would not be impacted
according to NIST. I have seen no reports of, and not
To be very clear here.
There is not a box coming from NIST.
They do not want the responsibility to maintain what ever it would be.
The reason to make the change to the format is for better frequency and
time distribution by this channel.
It seeks to improve overall system gain and attempts to
Hi
I'd bet at least a cold order of fries that what ever chip comes out of this is
going to be a cheap one. At least that will be true after a couple years. The
target market is wall clocks…
Bob
On Jul 8, 2012, at 10:29 AM, paul wrote:
To be very clear here.
There is not a box coming from
IMO, a better way to provide the service would be to just turn a couple of
LORAN-C stations back on.
But that would be a tacit admission of another stupid government screwup.
This WWVB scheme can possibly be spun as an 'improvement'- hence
politically less distasteful, even if more expensive for
Pretty sure NIST will not do anything. Just to set expectations.
We are fortunate that to some extent John Lowe is responding to questions.
But we are on our own.
I think the big lesson I have already learned is that there are lots of
standard approaches to solving the problem Micros FPGAs dpll
Pretty sure NIST will not do anything. Just to set expectations.
We are fortunate that to some extent John Lowe is responding to questions.
But we are on our own.
I think the big lesson I have already learned is that there are lots of
standard approaches to solving the problem Micros FPGAs dpll
- Original Message -
From: paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2012 11:30 AM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 117/10509a...
Pretty sure NIST will not do anything. Just to set expectations.
We
of precise time and frequency measurement
time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2012 11:30 AM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 117/10509a...
Pretty sure NIST will not do anything. Just to set expectations.
We are fortunate that to some extent John Lowe is responding to questions.
But we
Hi
It *may* turn out to be easier to receive and demodulate the new signal, then
use it to de-bpsk the signal to an older box than to try to strip the bpsk. I
agree that they may not change anything, but I'd hate to get it all running and
have them make a change.
Bob
On Jul 7, 2012, at 11:30
Why bother?
If you have to build/buy a new receiver to make your old receiver work,
why not just use the new receiver?
YMMV,
-John
===
Hi
It *may* turn out to be easier to receive and demodulate the new signal,
then use it to de-bpsk the signal to an older box than to try to
Hi
… because some want to keep the old stuff going. It's a hobby.
Indeed my interest would mainly be in simply building a new (cheap) receiver.
Bob
On Jul 7, 2012, at 12:22 PM, J. Forster wrote:
Why bother?
If you have to build/buy a new receiver to make your old receiver work,
why not
John I am with Bob on this. Its to keep the gear ticking and an alternate
to GPS (Sort of). But there is a huge difference between this and LORAN C.
Here there is an opportunity to evolve as compared to LORAN that was simply
killed.
Further maybe even obtain better performance. But thats far from
John I am with Bob on this. Its to keep the gear ticking and an alternate
to GPS (Sort of).
I agree with that objective, but, I have seen peoplwe take BC-611 radios
and put cheap CB into the box. That interests me not in the slightest.
But there is a huge difference between this and LORAN C.
On Sat, Jul 07, 2012 at 02:23:56PM -0700, J. Forster wrote:
I agree with that objective, but, I have seen peoplwe take BC-611 radios
and put cheap CB into the box. That interests me not in the slightest.
John,
Depends.
For time of day receivers, a retrofit makes a lot of
Oh my now you are about to get me going but yes indeed.
We are paying for the services and yet a new scheme comes out with
documentation thats a bit sketchy in areas as I dug in. Some of its obvious
on the second or 3rd read but you are still reading between the lines.
However there does seem to
Maybe only 'favored' people are getting the inside information. It clearly
would give a commercial advantage.
-John
=
On Sat, Jul 07, 2012 at 02:23:56PM -0700, J. Forster wrote:
I agree with that objective, but, I have seen peoplwe take BC-611 radios
and put cheap CB into
Hi
… and because the documentation is sketchy, there just *may* be an oh, by the
way, we didn't mention it earlier but the new modulation includes ….. sort of
thing.
Bob
On Jul 7, 2012, at 7:53 PM, paul swed wrote:
Oh my now you are about to get me going but yes indeed.
We are paying for
As an observer from across the pond:
- presumably, the vast majority of users would not be affected.
- is there a technical solution which would be compatible with both old and
new methods? Some alternative modulation scheme?
- is there not a testing period, where results can be fed back as
Lets see if this comes through. Not sure gmail is sending.
As John has mentioned we have been working on this and I have concluded
that something needs to keep the local oscillator in 1/2 of the cycle.
Hate going back to some vco approach. But that seems to be the case.
Tried forcing the
Hi
My *guess* is that $50 is in the ball park for parts cost of a pretty good
receiver for the new format. That does not include things like the external
standard, antenna, frequency comparison stuff, power or case. I'd bound the
range of the guess as $25 to $100.
Bob
On Jul 5, 2012, at
On 7/5/2012 11:02 PM, David I. Emery wrote:
On Thu, Jul 05, 2012 at 04:19:25PM -0700, J. Forster wrote:
If propagation goes south, you loose track of the carrier phase, the basis
of the system. If your local standard is stable and close to right, that's
not a big deal. If not, you can easily go
Don wrote:
the fet breakdown voltage has of course got to be high enough.
If the nuvistor is used as a common-cathode or common-grid amplifier,
you can cascode the fet with a bipolar to extend its drain voltage
range. You will need to come up with an appropriate bias source for
the
: Wednesday, July 04, 2012 11:10 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 117/10509a
Don wrote:
the fet breakdown voltage has of course got to be high enough.
If the nuvistor is used as a common-cathode or common-grid amplifier,
you can cascode
PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 117/10509a
Don wrote:
the fet breakdown voltage has of course got to be high enough.
If the nuvistor is used as a common-cathode or common-grid amplifier,
you can cascode the fet with a bipolar to extend its
Schematics for all versions of the 10509A antenna:
http://www.leapsecond.com/museum/10509a/
/tvb (iPhone4)
___
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the
Some time ago I made a 60 kHz antenna by winding a zillion turns of wire
on a ferrite loopstick tuned with a padder condenser. This connected to
the gate of a 2n4416 or mpf102. This was quite selective and sensitive.
On 07/05/2012 02:45 AM, Tom Van Baak (lab) wrote:
Schematics for all
...@comcast.net
To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement'
time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 117/10509a
Message-ID: A12C52D31F1E4BFB96841D691B4E86DE@RonPC
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Thanks Charles:
I will consider your ideas as they seem to be excellent
-Original Message-
From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On
Behalf Of Charles P. Steinmetz
Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2012 11:10 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 117/10509a
Don wrote:
the fet breakdown
Yes. I would definitely be interested in information on your conversion.
Like you I would prefer attempting a successful conversion as I don't
have the knowledge to develop one myself.
Thanks,
Merchison
On 2012-07-05 3:14 AM, Ron Ward wrote:
Thanks Charles:
I will consider your ideas as they
it.
Technology just keeps costing me!
Ron
-Original Message-
From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On
Behalf Of J. Forster
Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2012 6:31 AM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 117/10509a
You do
:14:32 -0700
From: Ron Ward n6idl...@comcast.net
To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement'
time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 117/10509a
Message-ID: A12C52D31F1E4BFB96841D691B4E86DE@RonPC
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Thanks Charles:
I
and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 117/10509a
You do know that neither a 117A or a 207 will work when WWVB changes to
BPSK fairy soon?
-John
===
Thanks Charles:
I will consider your ideas as they seem to be excellent!
I wonder if I could just make the whole unit run off
...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On
Behalf Of J. Forster
Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2012 6:31 AM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 117/10509a
You do know that neither a 117A or a 207 will work when WWVB changes to
BPSK fairy soon?
-John
...@febo.com] On
Behalf Of paul
Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2012 7:49 AM
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 117/10509a
As John has mentioned all of the old receivers are dead! They will not
lock to the new BPSK signal.
Though John and I have been working to see what can be done I have
?
Thanks,
Ron
-Original Message-
From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On
Behalf Of paul
Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2012 7:49 AM
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 117/10509a
As John has mentioned all of the old receivers are dead
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: [time-nuts] HP 117/10509a
Hello,
Has anyone successfully replaces the Nuvistors in the 117 and the 10509a
with FETs. I would like to replace them with inexpensive FETs instead of
buying the expensive Nunistors.
Thanks for all help,
Merchison
Burt I. Weiner Associates
-
From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On
Behalf Of J. Forster
Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2012 6:31 AM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 117/10509a
You do know that neither a 117A or a 207 will work when WWVB
that I used the RLF-1's. I forget where the antenna went,
but it may still be in use somewhere. At least I hope so.
Burt, K6OQK
From: Merchison Burke merchi...@yahoo.co.uk
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: [time-nuts] HP 117/10509a
Hello,
Has anyone successfully replaces the Nuvistors
On 7/4/2012 11:09 PM, Charles P. Steinmetz wrote:
Don wrote:
the fet breakdown voltage has of course got to be high enough.
If the nuvistor is used as a common-cathode or common-grid amplifier,
you can cascode the fet with a bipolar to extend its drain voltage
range. You will need to come
merchi...@yahoo.co.uk
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: [time-nuts] HP 117/10509a
Hello,
Has anyone successfully replaces the Nuvistors in the 117 and the
10509a
with FETs. I would like to replace them with inexpensive FETs
instead of
buying the expensive Nunistors.
Thanks for all help,
Merchison
Subject: [time-nuts] HP 117/10509a
Hello,
Has anyone successfully replaces the Nuvistors in the 117 and the
10509a
with FETs. I would like to replace them with inexpensive FETs
instead of
buying the expensive Nunistors.
Thanks for all help,
Merchison
Burt I. Weiner Associates
the RLF-1's. I forget
where the antenna went, but it may still be in use somewhere. At least I
hope so.
Burt, K6OQK
From: Merchison Burke merchi...@yahoo.co.uk
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: [time-nuts] HP 117/10509a
Hello,
Has anyone successfully replaces the Nuvistors in the 117
!
Ron
-Original Message-
From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On
Behalf Of J. Forster
Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2012 10:29 AM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 117/10509a...
The only ones that will work are very
?
YMMV,
-John
==
Ron
-Original Message-
From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On
Behalf Of J. Forster
Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2012 10:29 AM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 117/10509a
...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On
Behalf Of J. Forster
Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2012 10:29 AM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 117/10509a...
The only ones that will work are very recent designs.
The HP 117 and Fluke 207
From what I've read, the mods are to improve the Time of Day, not the Time
Interval accuracy.
In my location (MA) WWVB was never as good as LORAN-C because of
propagation issues.
-John
===
Hi
The real question is weather the BPSK will help us get significantly
better accuracy
Hi
Propagation isn't going to change with modulation format, so that part will
still be with us. I'm wondering if some fancy processing on the new code might
have some advantages. It's not worth digging into until they have a final
format though.
Bob
On Jul 5, 2012, at 6:19 PM, J. Forster
On 7/5/2012 9:49 AM, Randy D. Hunt wrote:
On 7/4/2012 11:09 PM, Charles P. Steinmetz wrote:
Don wrote:
the fet breakdown voltage has of course got to be high enough.
If the nuvistor is used as a common-cathode or common-grid amplifier,
you can cascode the fet with a bipolar to extend its
Hi:
Yes, please make a .PDF File available!
Thanks,
Ron
-Original Message-
From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On
Behalf Of bill
Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2012 3:57 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 117
If propagation goes south, you loose track of the carrier phase, the basis
of the system. If your local standard is stable and close to right, that's
not a big deal. If not, you can easily go down the garden path.
-John
===
Hi
Propagation isn't going to change with modulation
WWVB is weak in the Oregon Rain Forest. Oregon Scientific
weather station consoles rarely get a good signal at my place.
Ditto for a Radio Shack alarm clock.
I did get workable reception back in the 70s using a PLL
circuit from a book. That was before CFLs and switching
power supplies.
Hi
And possibly if the bpsk does something useful, you can identify a carrier
phase slip and correct for it….
Bob
On Jul 5, 2012, at 7:19 PM, J. Forster wrote:
If propagation goes south, you loose track of the carrier phase, the basis
of the system. If your local standard is stable and
On 7/5/2012 3:57 PM, bill wrote:
On 7/5/2012 9:49 AM, Randy D. Hunt wrote:
On 7/4/2012 11:09 PM, Charles P. Steinmetz wrote:
Don wrote:
the fet breakdown voltage has of course got to be high enough.
If the nuvistor is used as a common-cathode or common-grid
amplifier, you can cascode the
On Thu, Jul 05, 2012 at 04:19:25PM -0700, J. Forster wrote:
If propagation goes south, you loose track of the carrier phase, the basis
of the system. If your local standard is stable and close to right, that's
not a big deal. If not, you can easily go down the garden path.
If I read
Glad to know that it is not finalised as yet. When I read about this
wrinkle, I was about to put my units up for sale.
Merchison
On 2012-07-05 1:54 PM, Bob Camp wrote:
Hi
Simple answer - they are still playing around with the signal format. It is totally
unclear what the final format will
On Thu, Jul 05, 2012 at 04:19:25PM -0700, J. Forster wrote:
If propagation goes south, you loose track of the carrier phase, the
basis
of the system. If your local standard is stable and close to right,
that's
not a big deal. If not, you can easily go down the garden path.
If I read
On Thu, Jul 05, 2012 at 11:13:32PM -0400, Merchison Burke wrote:
Glad to know that it is not finalised as yet. When I read about this
wrinkle, I was about to put my units up for sale.
Put them up for sale. If you can find a buyer.
I asked Mr. Lowe this week and was told
No residual carrier is required.
-John
On Thu, Jul 05, 2012 at 11:13:32PM -0400, Merchison Burke wrote:
Glad to know that it is not finalised as yet. When I read about this
wrinkle, I was about to put my units up for sale.
Put them up for sale. If you can find a
Hello,
Has anyone successfully replaces the Nuvistors in the 117 and the 10509a
with FETs. I would like to replace them with inexpensive FETs instead of
buying the expensive Nunistors.
Thanks for all help,
Merchison
___
time-nuts mailing list --
...@febo.com] On
Behalf Of Merchison Burke
Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2012 8:19 PM
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: [time-nuts] HP 117/10509a
Hello,
Has anyone successfully replaces the Nuvistors in the 117 and the 10509a
with FETs. I would like to replace them with inexpensive FETs instead of
buying
, 2012 8:19 PM
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: [time-nuts] HP 117/10509a
Hello,
Has anyone successfully replaces the Nuvistors in the 117 and the 10509a
with FETs. I would like to replace them with inexpensive FETs instead of
buying the expensive Nunistors.
Thanks for all help,
Merchison
61 matches
Mail list logo
