-boun...@febo.com] On
Behalf Of Tony Finch
Sent: Monday, July 18, 2011 5:24 AM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] The future of UTC
Jose Camara camar...@quantacorp.com wrote:
I think before adding to the fire of UTC1, UTC7 etc. why not just abolish
Jose Camara camar...@quantacorp.com wrote:
Thanks for the book recommendation.
I'm enormously pleased you enjoyed it. Sounds like you had the same
unexpected reaction that I did!
Tony.
--
f.anthony.n.finch d...@dotat.at http://dotat.at/
Northwest FitzRoy, Sole, Lundy, Fastnet: Westerly or
Le 23/07/2011 01:39, Horst Schmidt a écrit :
Ha, you may well ask. The reason to hate DST is given to us in the
southern parts of Australia, by our Queensland cousins:
The problems with DST is :
1. The Cows get very confused and the farmers have problems milking them.
2. The chickens
Palfreyman jim77...@gmail.com
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Friday, July 22, 2011 8:19 AM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] The future of UTC
Mr HeathKid,
What is your reason for hating dst. The changeover is a pain - but after
that, what is the problem
and I hope some day we go back to
not having it.
- Original Message - From: Rob Kimberley
r...@timing-consultants.com
To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement'
time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2011 1:57 PM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] The future of UTC
My
day we go back to
not having it.
- Original Message - From: Rob Kimberley
r...@timing-consultants.com
To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement'
time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2011 1:57 PM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] The future of UTC
My earlier reply about
'
time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2011 1:57 PM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] The future of UTC
My earlier reply about flexible working practices still holds. Why not
just
move with the seasons. Before clocks, I'm sure that's what we did - we got
up when it was light, and went to bed when
BLOCK: This may be kind of an urban legend, but I thought I had heard that
one of the backers behind extending Daylight Saving Time into the beginning
of November was the candy industry, and it all had to do with Halloween.
Mr. DOWNING: This is no kind of legend. This is the truth. For 25
Far out. I've just read so many logical fallacies and government
conspiracies I'm embarrassed for this high quality list. Let's inject
some facts here.
I live at 43 degrees south. At the winter solstice (June 21) the sun
rises at 7:41 and sets at 16:43.
At the summer solstice (December 21) the
Which part embarrasses you Jim, your belief that we as adults
haven't noticed that the number of daylight hours changes with
the seasons? Or is it the fact that this deep into the thread
you still haven't figured out what it is about?
-Chuck Harris
Jim Palfreyman wrote:
Far out. I've just
Jose Camara camar...@quantacorp.com wrote:
I think before adding to the fire of UTC1, UTC7 etc. why not just abolish
this silliness called Daylight Savings Time? If there is any benefit to it,
just change business operating hours instead.
If you want to know why your suggestion doesn't work,
measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] The future of UTC
Jose Camara camar...@quantacorp.com wrote:
I think before adding to the fire of UTC1, UTC7 etc. why not just abolish
this silliness called Daylight Savings Time? If there is any benefit to
it,
just change business operating hours instead.
If you
At 08:23 AM 7/18/2011, Tony Finch wrote...
If you want to know why your suggestion doesn't work, David Prerau has
collected many many examples. http://www.seizethedaylight.com/
Nope. Not much there but an advertisement.
___
time-nuts mailing
...@quantacorp.com
Sender: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com
Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2011 07:28:39
To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement'time-nuts@febo.com
Reply-To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] The future of UTC
Tony
In Detroit, Michigan, when the auto manufacturing
companies discovered that having everyone's shift
starting at 8 AM caused huge traffic problems,
companies chose non-rounded times. For example,
one company starts their shift at 7:40 AM, another
starts at 7:25, and so on. This was done without
On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 9:06 AM, Mike Naruta AA8K a...@comcast.net wrote:
If advancing the clocks one hour saves so much daylight,
why not advance the clocks by two hours to save even more?
The amount of time to move the clock depends on how far north you
live. Days being even longer at high
measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] The future of UTC
On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 9:06 AM, Mike Naruta AA8K a...@comcast.net wrote:
If advancing the clocks one hour saves so much daylight, why not
advance the clocks by two hours to save even more?
The amount of time to move the clock depends on how far
, 2011 9:17 AM
To: a...@comcast.net; Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] The future of UTC
On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 9:06 AM, Mike Naruta AA8K a...@comcast.net wrote:
If advancing the clocks one hour saves so much daylight,
why not advance the clocks by two
Sent: Monday, July 18, 2011 5:49 PM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] The future of UTC
I believe we had double daylight saving over here (UK) during WWII.
Rob K
-Original Message-
From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On
Behalf Of Chris Albertson
Sent: 18 July
, July 18, 2011 1:05 PM
To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement';
a...@comcast.net
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] The future of UTC
If you keep going farther from the equator, than it makes no sense
after a while. Above the Artic Circle, when you get 24hrs of daylight,
what
-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Monday, July 18, 2011 5:49 PM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] The future of UTC
I believe we had double daylight saving over here (UK) during WWII.
Rob K
-Original Message-
From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On
Behalf Of Chris Albertson
On 18 Jul 2011, at 05:23 , Tony Finch wrote:
Jose Camara camar...@quantacorp.com wrote:
I think before adding to the fire of UTC1, UTC7 etc. why not just abolish
this silliness called Daylight Savings Time? If there is any benefit to it,
just change business operating hours instead.
If
On Jul 18, 2011, at 3:02 PM, Tom Holmes wrote:
Someone somewhere is making some money off of this [DST] scam.
From an NPR interview with Michael Downing, author of Spring Forward: The
Annual Madness of Daylight Saving Time
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=7779869
Mr.
Call your local politician ? DST is a national matter, so all you have to do
is convince your politicians[1].
Actually, in most countries not a national matter... but more typically a
local (state/province/canton/prefecture) political matter.
For example there are US States that don't observe
On 17/07/11 16:21, Peter G. Viscarola wrote:
Call your local politician ? DST is a national matter, so all you have to do
is convince your politicians[1].
Actually, in most countries not a national matter... but more typically a
local (state/province/canton/prefecture) political matter.
In Australia, Queensland is the only state that does not use daylight
savings time.
There reasons, it upsets the cows feeding routine
Maybe we can harness this cow feeding routine instead of an OCXO?
On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 12:43 AM, Magnus Danielson
mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org wrote:
On
...@febo.com] On
Behalf Of Mark Spencer
Sent: 15 July 2011 5:51 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] The future of UTC
Sorry for the prior email with no text.
If the world could agree on the dates when DST adjustments are applied (if
individual
5:51 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] The future of UTC
Sorry for the prior email with no text.
If the world could agree on the dates when DST adjustments are applied (if
individual countries, states etc elect to make DST adjustments
In message 002001cc43c0$8dab3010$a9019030$@timing-consultants.com, Rob Kimbe
rley writes:
Daylight savings seems to be a bit archaic especially with modern flexible
working practices. Why not fit the working day around the clock seasons,
rather than try to correct things twice a year?
Call your
Wouldn't trust any politician!
:-)
-Original Message-
From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On
Behalf Of Poul-Henning Kamp
Sent: 16 July 2011 6:04 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] The future of UTC
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] The future of UTC
Far out. This discussion is so not time-nuts. I'm going to vent here.
I'll do my best to be polite.
Daylight savings is more beneficial the further from the equator you
go. I love it and would never want it to go. As pointed out, this is a
local issue. Go
Antonio, and other posters,
The issue of leap seconds is covered in the LEAPSECS mailing list rather than
time-nuts.
You can find the archives at:
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/leapsecs
Please move your well thought out questions or comments to that list.
Thanks,
/tvb
Le 15/07/2011 07:57, Poul-Henning Kamp a écrit :
snip
Everybody but the time-lords have always been told to stay away from
TAI in the strongest possible terms by said time-lords, who again and
told the world to use UTC.
The time lords are not completely deaf. For more than 10 years there has
In message 4e1ffa88.9050...@sfr.fr, cook michael writes:
Michael, there are a few details you overlook, and rather than
repeat myself, I'll point you at an article I wrote for Queue and
Communications of The ACM, trying to lay out the bits:
http://queue.acm.org/detail.cfm?id=1967009
--
Le 15/07/2011 10:33, Poul-Henning Kamp a écrit :
In message4e1ffa88.9050...@sfr.fr, cook michael writes:
Michael, there are a few details you overlook, and rather than
repeat myself, I'll point you at an article I wrote for Queue and
Communications of The ACM, trying to lay out the bits:
Well, instead of leap seconds which seem to be the biggest bug bear
for everyone, keep the second as 1/86,400 of the earths current
rotation and adjust the factor used in the calculation of atomic time
on a regular basis. No more leap seconds just leap atomic division
factor. Unless you can try
measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] The future of UTC
Well, instead of leap seconds which seem to be the biggest bug bear
for everyone, keep the second as 1/86,400 of the earths current
rotation and adjust the factor used in the calculation of atomic time
on a regular basis. No more leap seconds
In message cactjvnxhfq79n3fvprs4xyen4ouc6w7q9ih1u2kisfg9d_f...@mail.gmail.com
, Steve Rooke writes:
Well, instead of leap seconds which seem to be the biggest bug bear
for everyone, keep the second as 1/86,400 of the earths current
rotation and adjust the factor used in the calculation of atomic
On 15 July 2011 22:59, Poul-Henning Kamp p...@phk.freebsd.dk wrote:
In message
cactjvnxhfq79n3fvprs4xyen4ouc6w7q9ih1u2kisfg9d_f...@mail.gmail.com
, Steve Rooke writes:
Well, instead of leap seconds which seem to be the biggest bug bear
for everyone, keep the second as 1/86,400 of the earths
! And it is a Holiday!
-Original Message-
From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On
Behalf Of Steve Rooke
Sent: Friday, July 15, 2011 3:18 AM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] The future of UTC
Well, instead
Hi Poul-Henning,
Nice article. One thing stands out to me, though: How do you
propose knowing 20 years in advance the schedule of leap seconds?
Or, are you proposing that we just collect all seconds that may
occur in 20 years, and dump them into a single correction, one that
may be
On 7/15/11 3:17 AM, Steve Rooke wrote:
Well, instead of leap seconds which seem to be the biggest bug bear
for everyone, keep the second as 1/86,400 of the earths current
rotation and adjust the factor used in the calculation of atomic time
on a regular basis. No more leap seconds just leap
In message 4e203b60.6080...@erols.com, Chuck Harris writes:
Nice article. One thing stands out to me, though: How do you
propose knowing 20 years in advance the schedule of leap seconds?
That is for the geophysical community to figure out. They still
get to decide when leap seconds happen,
Poul-Henning Kamp wrote:
In message4e203b60.6080...@erols.com, Chuck Harris writes:
Nice article. One thing stands out to me, though: How do you
propose knowing 20 years in advance the schedule of leap seconds?
That is for the geophysical community to figure out. They still
get to decide
On 16 July 2011 01:22, Jim Lux jim...@earthlink.net wrote:
On 7/15/11 3:17 AM, Steve Rooke wrote:
why stay with the ridiculous base 60 system inherited from the Babylonians?
Why not decimalize it. Oh wait, that was tried a few hundred years ago, but
perhaps the time is now right? If the UK
On 16 July 2011 02:20, Poul-Henning Kamp p...@phk.freebsd.dk wrote:
In message 4e2046db.3040...@erols.com, Chuck Harris writes:
Poul-Henning Kamp wrote:
I can see a 20 year prediction being seriously fraught with error.
Not really, starting out with just one leap second every 18 months
gets
Poul-Henning Kamp wrote:
In message4e2046db.3040...@erols.com, Chuck Harris writes:
Poul-Henning Kamp wrote:
I can see a 20 year prediction being seriously fraught with error.
Not really, starting out with just one leap second every 18 months
gets you pretty good first approximation. DUT1
In message cactjvnyewpksnjbt3dsf5kdvtq0jpwxm6x2ruxdxtcrp3jc...@mail.gmail.com
, Steve Rooke writes:
Sorry to barge in here but I thought the leap second need was about a
two year thing so wouldn't that mean a ten second jump at the twenty
year mark.
No.
schedule them 20 years in advance is not
On 16 July 2011 02:51, Poul-Henning Kamp p...@phk.freebsd.dk wrote:
In message
cactjvnyewpksnjbt3dsf5kdvtq0jpwxm6x2ruxdxtcrp3jc...@mail.gmail.com
, Steve Rooke writes:
Sorry to barge in here but I thought the leap second need was about a
two year thing so wouldn't that mean a ten second jump
In message cactjvny8h2ethr_m6dquxhabhjb9nfgyauhjcn1bf-umh+k...@mail.gmail.com
, Steve Rooke writes:
Ah! I get you. Not 10 leap seconds at 20 year intervals, just an
almanac to indicate when they will be for up to 20 years in advance. I
guess that means they could take a bye for any scheduled
On 16 July 2011 03:01, Poul-Henning Kamp p...@phk.freebsd.dk wrote:
In message
cactjvny8h2ethr_m6dquxhabhjb9nfgyauhjcn1bf-umh+k...@mail.gmail.com
, Steve Rooke writes:
Ah! I get you. Not 10 leap seconds at 20 year intervals, just an
almanac to indicate when they will be for up to 20 years in
In message CACTjVNynr5Vhrj=e+gfungebpa_u8__26bhjamk2nv6uxgi...@mail.gmail.com
, Steve Rooke writes:
Nope, once they have scheduled a leap-second, it happens.
And if it's not needed?
It is needed, otherwise they would not have scheduled it.
If they predict wrong all that happens is that DUT1
On Fri, Jul 15, 2011 at 23:09, Steve Rooke sar10...@gmail.com wrote:
On 16 July 2011 03:01, Poul-Henning Kamp p...@phk.freebsd.dk wrote:
In message
cactjvny8h2ethr_m6dquxhabhjb9nfgyauhjcn1bf-umh+k...@mail.gmail.com
, Steve Rooke writes:
Ah! I get you. Not 10 leap seconds at 20 year
On 16 July 2011 03:14, Poul-Henning Kamp p...@phk.freebsd.dk wrote:
In message
CACTjVNynr5Vhrj=e+gfungebpa_u8__26bhjamk2nv6uxgi...@mail.gmail.com
, Steve Rooke writes:
Nope, once they have scheduled a leap-second, it happens.
And if it's not needed?
It is needed, otherwise they would not
In message cahzk5wcrvny8jv2xswycnbvq3wxmra_yezofcjpufz9nfdk...@mail.gmail.com
, Sanjeev Gupta writes:
PHK, in your proposal, the long term stability of low, bounded DUT would
be guaranteed?
Only guaranteed in the sense that I tacitly presume the geophysicisists
will schedule leap seconds with
-
From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On
Behalf Of Steve Rooke
Sent: Friday, July 15, 2011 8:24 AM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] The future of UTC
On 16 July 2011 03:14, Poul-Henning Kamp p...@phk.freebsd.dk wrote
In message 002101cc430a$c71cd030$55567090$@com, Jose Camara writes:
I think before adding to the fire of UTC1, UTC7 etc. why not just abolish
this silliness called Daylight Savings Time?
Feel free to: That is under the control of your national government
and you can use that for whatever you
I agree on DST, I was very disappointed when Indiana joined the lemmings.
I'd take it one more step, and eliminate time zones. Everyone operates on
UTC(x) So you get to work at 2100, and work till 0500.. I know my mom is up
till 0700.
No matter where you are, you know what time it is, and
- Original Message
From: Jose Camara camar...@quantacorp.com
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Fri, July 15, 2011 9:18:03 AM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] The future of UTC
I think before adding to the fire of UTC1, UTC7 etc. why not just
Message
From: Jose Camara camar...@quantacorp.com
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Fri, July 15, 2011 9:18:03 AM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] The future of UTC
I think before adding to the fire of UTC1, UTC7 etc. why not just abolish
this silliness
As long as you are going to re-educate everyone on Earth to use your
new system why not at the same time convert to metric time? The unit
of time should be the day (with length averaged over say, 1,000
years). But for most uses people would think in terms of milli-days
or mD.
I hinted at the
On 07/15/11 05:18 PM, Jose Camara wrote:
I think before adding to the fire of UTC1, UTC7 etc. why not just abolish
this silliness called Daylight Savings Time?
I would agree with that.
I play chess on a chess server
The server runs at EST. Some team games are scheduled and the organisers
Mark,
If the planet were not inclined 23 degrees this might make sense. But it turns
out daylight times differ by latitude and season and hemisphere. So it is not
surprising that nations, or even states within large nations, assume the right
to set their own rules of local time.
/tvb
On Jul
Unless I'm missing something, it seems to me that this matter has not yet been
discussed among time-nuts:
http://futureofutc.org
From the above website:
A conclusive proposal to fundamentally redefine UTC is scheduled for a vote by
the Radiocommunications Assembly of the ITU-R in January, 2012.
With Bulletin C nr 42, a link to a questionnarie about it is added at
the end (and I think that leap seconds and its convenience or not has
been discussed lots of times in the list :)
From Bulletin C 42:
IMPORTANT: After years of discussions, a proposal to fundamentally redefine
UTC will come
Da: jherr...@hvsistemas.es
Data: 15/07/2011 1.06
A: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurementtime-nuts@febo.com
Ogg: Re: [time-nuts] The future of UTC
With Bulletin C nr 42, a link to a questionnarie about it is added at
the end (and I think that leap seconds and its convenience
If they will not observe the leap seconds as the earth times calibration,
it would become unusable in some areas of technology, and or earth time in
itself, or I would think. When the first cesium clock was being built, it
was to be calibrated, I guess one could say, by the astronomical second,
At 06:51 PM 7/14/2011, iovane\@inwind\.it wrote...
From the above website:
A conclusive proposal to fundamentally redefine UTC is scheduled for a
vote by the Radiocommunications Assembly of the ITU-R in January, 2012.
It's just sheer stupidity. A bunch of people who chose to use the UTC
Some vendors gps receivers cannot handle leapseconds properly, so they may be
pushing to fix the problem this way ;)
Sent From iPhone
On Jul 14, 2011, at 15:51, iovane\@inwind\.it iov...@inwind.it wrote:
Unless I'm missing something, it seems to me that this matter has not yet
been
In message 20110715004035.39b88a0...@locke.alientech.net, Mike S writes:
At 06:51 PM 7/14/2011, iovane\@inwind\.it wrote...
It's just sheer stupidity. A bunch of people who chose to use the UTC
timescale when they should have chosen TAI [...]
Yes, it is just sheer stupidity to postulate random
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