Re: [time-nuts] TymServe TS2100 dead power supply

Many thanks for the replies on this one. Before I made the first post, I'd pulled the supply, given it a visual and nasal inspection, checked the outputs for shorts, and powered it up on the bench. Dead (and dead quiet, not even the tick-tick-tick of a switcher with a shorted output). In my

[time-nuts] Ultra low power RTC

A friend of mine is a product engineer for one of the largest (the largest?) makers of RTC chips. He groans about the (rather pointless) quest for the lowest power RTC chips. Making robust, stable, accurate oscillators that run at nanowatts is a losing proposition. At those levels external

[time-nuts] TymServe TS2100 dead power supply

I once looked into adding IRIG generation to Lady Heather. I never came up with a reliable / robust way to do it. It could possibly be done with some of the Windows multi-media support, but that would leave the Linux/macOS/FreeBSD people in the dark. I just added TS2100 support to Lady

[time-nuts] Frequency deviations in Europe affect clocks

A more detailed explanation of what is happening: https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2018/03/ovens-across-europe-display-the-wrong-time-due-to-a-serbia-kosovo-grid-dispute/ ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to

Re: [time-nuts] TymServe TS2100 dead power supply

I have built an irig b encoder. Irig uses a 1 KHZ amplitude modulated signal. I can't remember now if it was pulse width modulation also. But it used a small processor and todays arduino is many time more effective at the job. That said I used a modulator using a small xtal controlled divider to

[time-nuts] Frequency deviations in Europe affect clocks

This has been making rounds for quite awhile, I am surprised it has not been picked up here. Leo == Frequency deviations in Continental Europe including impact on electric clocks steered by frequency Continental European Power System has been experiencing, since mid-January,

Re: [time-nuts] How to properly simulate PLLs?

http://www.aholme.co.uk/Frac2/Simulate.htm might be useful. bob -Original Message- From: time-nuts On Behalf Of Attila Kinali Sent: Wednesday, March 7, 2018 11:43 AM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject:

Re: [time-nuts] Ultra low power RTC

On Wed, 7 Mar 2018 12:06:43 -0500 Bob kb8tq wrote: > Ok, so energy harvesting from Lazy Bob in his arm chair makes a button cell > look like a giant power source ….. Giant is an understatement. For comparison, a single brain cell uses approximately 0.5nW of power. A human body

Re: [time-nuts] Frequency deviations in Europe affect clocks

On Wed, Mar 7, 2018, at 9:28 PM, Mark Sims wrote: > A more detailed explanation of what is happening: > > https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2018/03/ovens-across-europe-display-the-wrong-time-due-to-a-serbia-kosovo-grid-dispute/ This explains why my oven clock and the time/temperature display

Re: [time-nuts] How to properly simulate PLLs?

Hi, On 03/07/2018 05:42 PM, Attila Kinali wrote: > Hi, > > I have a small side task, where I need to design a PLL system > As it is a bit non-conventional, I am not confident that my > pen and paper analysis is correct and the usuall tool I use > (Analog's ADPLLsim) doesn't cover it. So my first

Re: [time-nuts] Frequency deviations in Europe affect clocks

Am 07.03.2018 um 22:09 schrieb Poul-Henning Kamp: This explains why my oven clock and the time/temperature display on the building outside my apartment in Switzerland are six minutes slow since January. It was a great mystery to me. Can you get a picture of this ? It would be wonderful to

Re: [time-nuts] TymServe TS2100 dead power supply

k6...@comcast.net said: > RANDOM QUESTION -- does anybody know of software to *generate* IRIG time > code? Something in C that's adaptable to a modern micro would be good. In > something like a Raspberry Pi 3, IRIG generation would make a nice addition > to Lady Heather... Look at util/tg.c or

Re: [time-nuts] Frequency deviations in Europe affect clocks

In message <1520456485.3091982.1295242984.442b4...@webmail.messagingengine.com>, Pete Stephenson writes: >On Wed, Mar 7, 2018, at 9:28 PM, Mark Sims wrote: >> A more detailed explanation of what is happening: >> >>

Re: [time-nuts] Ultra low power RTC

> Le 7 mars 2018 à 11:10, Attila Kinali a écrit : > > On Tue, 6 Mar 2018 21:57:32 -0500 > Bob kb8tq wrote: > >> Assuming you are going to run it off a battery. What’s the self discharge >> rate on a reasonable battery? > > With supply currents below 100nA

Re: [time-nuts] Ultra low power RTC

Hi > On Mar 7, 2018, at 6:33 PM, Mike Cook wrote: > > >> Le 7 mars 2018 à 11:10, Attila Kinali a écrit : >> >> On Tue, 6 Mar 2018 21:57:32 -0500 >> Bob kb8tq wrote: >> >>> Assuming you are going to run it off a battery. What’s the self

Re: [time-nuts] How to properly simulate PLLs?

Attila wrote: my first thought was to use spice to simulate the loop. But I am not sure how the non-linear effects of the PLL, the divider chains etc affect the whole system and whether a spice simulation (which would use a linear approximation of a few components) would model the system

Re: [time-nuts] Frequency deviations in Europe affect clocks

On Wed, 07 Mar 2018 22:01:25 +0100 Pete Stephenson wrote: > Fortunately the Swiss rail system doesn't, as far as I know, use powerline > frequency for timekeeping, even at remote stations, so all the railway > clocks are still running properly. They used to have a central

Re: [time-nuts] Ultra low power RTC

On Thu, 8 Mar 2018 00:33:58 +0100 Mike Cook wrote: > This is interesting. When you talk of self discharge, is there any way > of harnessing that. Is that what the chip manufactures are doing? No. It's a chemical reaction inside the cell. The energy is turned into heat

[time-nuts] Clocks in the EU lose time due to frequency issue

https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/j5b34k/slow-clocks-europe-serbia-kosovo-entsoe -Mike Sent from my iPhone ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow

Re: [time-nuts] Ultra low power RTC

Hi Ok, so energy harvesting from Lazy Bob in his arm chair makes a button cell look like a giant power source ….. You likely aren’t going to win any ADEV competitions with that oscillator. They did go to a *lot* of effort to squeeze out that last nano watt. Bob > On Mar 7, 2018, at 11:47 AM,

Re: [time-nuts] ADEV data for mechanical clocks

On Tue, 06 Mar 2018 21:10:00 -0800 Hal Murray wrote: > Does anybody have any ADEV data for mechanical clocks? (I didn't find any by > google, but there was a lot of noise so maybe I missed something.) How about Tom's Powers of Ten?

[time-nuts] HP 107BR Ski Question

List, In getting documentation together for my HP 107BR I discovered the manuals I was able to aquire were for prefix 333. My unit prefix is 708.  Does anyone have that prefix schematics or an errata sheet?  Or does the 708 prefix just designate another factory run? TIA Perrier

Re: [time-nuts] Ultra low power RTC

On Tue, 6 Mar 2018 21:57:32 -0500 Bob kb8tq wrote: > Assuming you are going to run it off a battery. What’s the self discharge > rate on a reasonable battery? With supply currents below 100nA you can assume that you are likely to be limited by the self-discharge using coin sized

Re: [time-nuts] HP Xtal Osc Question

See final pages in: http://www.hparchive.com/Manuals/HP-10811AB-Manual.pdf The 60111 variant is a lower spec version intended for use in counters. Bruce > > On 07 March 2018 at 17:50 Perry Sandeen via time-nuts > wrote: > > List, > When perusing HP xtal

[time-nuts] Ultra low power RTC

Probably 20+ years for a lithium coin cell... basically the shelf life of the cell. I have a card of 24 year old CR-2032's that are still above 3V, and no sign of leakage. BTW, never handle a coin cell (particularly in watch applications) with your fingers... your grubby fingerprints are

Re: [time-nuts] HP Xtal Osc Question

There are several models of the oscillator that have been made.  The -60111 was common as the high-stability option in many HP counters and signal generators.  The differences are documented on page 79 of the 10811 data sheet available on the Keysight website:

Re: [time-nuts] HP 107BR Ski Question

Perrier The manual we offer on our WEB site is centered on serial Prefix 512 with change sheets up to serial prefix 708. There are several changes, between the 512 and 708, different configuration of the A1Y1 , Coax changes, Powers Supply changes. Many many changes in circuit details between

Re: [time-nuts] ADEV data for mechanical clocks

> Does anybody have any ADEV data for mechanical clocks? (I didn't find any by > google, but there was a lot of noise so maybe I missed something.) Hal, It's often buried in out-of-print horological books or magazines / journals / articles that google may or may not index. I have some ADEV

Re: [time-nuts] Ultra low power RTC

Hi Since we don’t often *need* the smallest cell made *and* we’re probably talking lifetime of the cell….. does 22 na vs 33 na matter? …. hmmm …. CR2032 ( which is the smallest I would use) is rated at 0.22 AH. A nano amp for a year is about 8 uA hours a year. So 30 na for 20 years is

Re: [time-nuts] HP 107BR Ski Question

Hi The oscillators were tested and sorted at the end of the manufacturing line. Everything got checked for aging. It’s not clear that everything got detail tested for ADEV. The suspicion is that they did enough ADEV to get the few tight(er) spec units they needed. Next layer is that these

Re: [time-nuts] WWV or Net Clock controlled oscillator

hol...@hotmail.com said: > The university that I hang out at has a clock tower with a full set of > bells. ... Stanford has a clock tower. Searching YouTube for >Stanford Clock Tower< will find several short videos. It's in a roughly 10 ft square room with big windows on all 4 sides. I stop

[time-nuts] HP Xtal Osc Question

List, When perusing HP xtal oscillators on ebay I noticed some cases were marked HP 10811 and the same appearing unit was marked HP 10811-60111. Are both the same for TN purposes?   If so what are the differences? Regards, Perrier ___ time-nuts mailing

[time-nuts] ADEV data for mechanical clocks

> So, where's the ADEV plot for Bill's Q1,Q2, and Q3? Does anybody have any ADEV data for mechanical clocks? (I didn't find any by google, but there was a lot of noise so maybe I missed something.) I'd expect a watch to slow down slightly as the spring unwinds. That probably doesn't apply to

Re: [time-nuts] Ultra low power RTC

> Since we don’t often *need* the smallest cell made *and* we’re probably > talking lifetime of the cell….. does 22 na vs 33 na matter? It gets even more amazing ... "A 1.5 nW, 32.768 kHz XTAL Oscillator Operational From a 0.3 V Supply"

Re: [time-nuts] Ultra low power RTC

Hi I’ve designed watch guts (long ago). It was at a time that you used an analog (motor) movement if you wanted really low power. The CMOS / LCD’s of that era were power hogs by comparison. What you can put in a small / thin watch isn’t what you would use on a RTC board. My suspicion is that

[time-nuts] How to properly simulate PLLs?

Hi, I have a small side task, where I need to design a PLL system As it is a bit non-conventional, I am not confident that my pen and paper analysis is correct and the usuall tool I use (Analog's ADPLLsim) doesn't cover it. So my first thought was to use spice to simulate the loop. But I am not

Re: [time-nuts] Ultra low power RTC

On Wed, 7 Mar 2018 08:27:00 -0500 Bob kb8tq wrote: > Since we don’t often *need* the smallest cell made *and* we’re probably > talking lifetime of the cell….. does 22 na vs 33 na matter? Not really. It starts to matter when you are space limited and don't have space for a