Re: [time-nuts] Japan Quake May Have Shortened Earth Days, Moved Axis
I just thought if we all jumped up and down on Everest we could squash it down into the ground and speed the world back up again. In that way we could get it back in sync with real time, I mean atomic time. Or maybe use any of the spare NASA rocket boosters securely attached to the earth and ignited so they speed the world up a bit. BTW, there are lots of bicycles in China, maybe they could jump off of them instead of chairs. Steve On 15 July 2011 11:29, J. Forster j...@quik.com wrote: Why do you need them to jump at all? If you got all the Chinese to just stand on a chair, it would increase the Moment of Inertia of the earth a smitch, and it would slow the rotation because of the Conservation of Angular Momentum. -John === On 7/14/2011 2:02 PM, Steve Rooke wrote: Well, if everyonel climbed Everest and we all jumped up and down together, perhaps we could achieve that :) Cheers, Steve I can't resist moving this off-topic thread by a giant leap. I have a 1969 R. Crumb comic book starring Fritz the Cat. In one story, Fritz discovers the Chinese have a rocket program. The rocket is powered by the vast population blowing into tubes. I didn't think this was practical but it did occur to me that they could have a workable WMD (although the term wasn't yet popular) if they got all the Chinese to climb up on a chair and jump down at exactly the same time (give or take a few milliseconds). Back in 1969 this wasn't workable because there was no way to get everyone jumping in sync. We all know that devices that could coordinate this event are becoming common and pretty cheap. You could reduce the required number of accurate clocks by gathering the jumpers into large venues like auditoriums or sporting arenas. Or just broadcast a count down from local radio stations with good clocks. Seems most of us are making our recent purchases of accurate timing devices from sellers in China. Is that just a coincidence? ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] The future of UTC
Antonio, and other posters, The issue of leap seconds is covered in the LEAPSECS mailing list rather than time-nuts. You can find the archives at: http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/leapsecs Please move your well thought out questions or comments to that list. Thanks, /tvb ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Japan Quake May Have Shortened Earth Days, Moved Axis
On Fri, Jul 15, 2011 at 13:54, Poul-Henning Kamp p...@phk.freebsd.dk wrote: In message 3209.12.6.201.213.1310686158.squir...@popaccts.quikus.com, J. For ster writes: If you got all the Chinese to just stand on a chair, it would increase the Moment of Inertia of the earth a smitch, and it would slow the rotation because of the Conservation of Angular Momentum. 1. It's not obvious that there are that many chairs in China. 2. It really does not change the momentum that much: m(pop,china) = 1.5e9 * 50kg = 7.5e10 kg m(earth) = 5.97e24 kg A ratio of roughly 8e13... Spoilsport! If you are going to do the actual calculations, that rather destroys my daydreaming! -- Sanjeev Gupta +65 98551208 http://www.linkedin.com/in/ghane -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Japan Quake May Have Shortened Earth Days, Moved Axis
p...@phk.freebsd.dk said: 2. It really does not change the momentum that much: m(pop,china) = 1.5e9 * 50kg = 7.5e10 kg m(earth) = 5.97e24 kg A ratio of roughly 8e13... Neat. Thanks. I think you missed another big factor. The height of a chair is tiny relative to the radius of the Earth. Lets call a chair 1 meter. The radius of the Earth is 6,3xx km or 6E6 meters. So that makes a ratio of more than 1E20. 1E14 we might be able to notice. 1E20 will be lost in the noise. Does anybody have a good graph for summer vs winter? I'd expect snow loading might be big enough to show up. PS: You need to round down the earth's moment of inertia by 2/5 because it's a uniform density sphere rather than the mass being concentrated at the radius on the equator. (mass next to the axis doesn't help) I'm assuming all the people in China are on the equator. There is a cos latitude fudge factor to correct for that. -- These are my opinions, not necessarily my employer's. I hate spam. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Japan Quake May Have Shortened Earth Days, Moved Axis
1E14 we might be able to notice Hal, No. Look at the adev of the earth (earlier posting). The length of earth day varies in the *milli*second range, day to day. VLBI measurements are under 0.1 millisecond, which comes to about 1e-9 resolution. Realize that none of the NASA earthquake may have shortened press releases are about real measurements of rotation. They are just impressive models of changes in momentum. The predictions are in the *micro*second range. The press does not always distinguish between milli and micro. /tvb ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Primary Time Standards
Absolutely, but you can still pull a new Cs out of the box and it will run at the same frequency as your old Cs. Not quite the same. This is called the re-trace spec which is poorer than the stability spec. Vintage Cs standards like the 5060 or 5061 powered up within about 1e-10 or 1e-11. The 5071A retrace spec (called reproducibility in the data sheet) is 1e-13. /tvb ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Primary Time Standards
In message ac0ea5f6-ddbf-49d4-a576-03bd7f91a...@leapsecond.com, Tom Van Baak (lab/iPad) writes: Absolutely, but you can still pull a new Cs out of the box and it will run at the same frequency as your old Cs. Not quite the same. This is called the re-trace spec which is poorer than the stability spec. Vintage Cs standards like the 5060 or 5061 powered up within about 1e-10 or 1e-11. The 5071A retrace spec (called reproducibility in the data sheet) is 1e-13. Right, but this is again not because of the physical principle used, but because of the implementation of it. The reason Rb's are secondary, is because the physical principle has no nominal frequency, but only an approximate one. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Primary Time Standards
A primary frequency standard is one that faithfully implements the definition of the SI second. Thus primary standards are based on Cs. But not all Cs-based clocks are primary. CSAC, for example, is not a primary standard. Rubidium, hydrogen, quartz, or pendulum clocks are not primary. The definition spells out zero magnetic field, zero temperature (zero velocity), and zero altitude on the earth's rotating geoid. There are many other practical physics details that need to be addressed. For a good example of what it takes to make a Cs clock a primary standard see: http://tf.nist.gov/general/pdf/1497.pdf http://tf.nist.gov/general/pdf/1846.pdf So strictly speaking no Cs clock actually runs at exactly 9192.631770 MHz since you need a certain amount of magnetic field to isolate the hyperfine transition, you can't run at absolute zero, no labs are actually at sea level, and atoms are not simple toys, etc. A lot of work is required to identify, predict, and quantify a host of factors. Again, please read or glance at those papers to appreciate the work that national metrology labs do to make copies of the SI second for their country. Some day the definition of the SI second will change; optical clocks offer much greater promise than microwave clocks. Note the length of a second won't change, it's just that the definition of a second will be more precise. /tvb ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] The future of UTC
Le 15/07/2011 07:57, Poul-Henning Kamp a écrit : snip Everybody but the time-lords have always been told to stay away from TAI in the strongest possible terms by said time-lords, who again and told the world to use UTC. The time lords are not completely deaf. For more than 10 years there has been debate about whether or not to revert to a TAI scale, but consensus has never been obtained. There are three requirements for time transmission that the current system supports in recommendation ITU-R TF.460-6 which the americans are trying to vote out. 1. SI second ticks 2. corrections to UTC for earth rotation , DUT1, so that UT1 can be calculated. 3. A civil time scale, UTC which is a descendant of GMT and roughly measures the mean solar day. One or other , if not both, figure in all the legal codes of the planet. The definition of 3 ensures that there are 86400 +/-1 ticks per mean solar day . This is quite useful as my watch and just about everyone else's measures days in 86400 units . The proposed change to ITU-R TF.460-6 provides 1 but removes 2 and 3. Sheer folly to my mind. The current recommendation is good for another 2-300 years . So in my humble opinion, the proposition for change should be rejected until consensus be achieved and that ALL three above requirements are met. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] The future of UTC
In message 4e1ffa88.9050...@sfr.fr, cook michael writes: Michael, there are a few details you overlook, and rather than repeat myself, I'll point you at an article I wrote for Queue and Communications of The ACM, trying to lay out the bits: http://queue.acm.org/detail.cfm?id=1967009 -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Primary Time Standards
On 15/07/11 10:24, Tom Van Baak (lab/iPad) wrote: A primary frequency standard is one that faithfully implements the definition of the SI second. Thus primary standards are based on Cs. But not all Cs-based clocks are primary. CSAC, for example, is not a primary standard. Rubidium, hydrogen, quartz, or pendulum clocks are not primary. There is an over-focus om the atom being used rather than the physical apparatus being used. Certain physical apparatuses (physical packages) has severe biases frequency so regardless of which atom used, you will have repeatability issues (build two devices, and they will tick differently). However, for various reasons has different atoms (and isotopes) been chosen for various physical packages due to various reasons. For instance, rubidium has two isotopes which makes it feasable to create an optical pumping due to how the D1 and D2 lines of the isotopes is located. Rubidium was investigated in beam configurations just as cesium. In fact, Cesium wasn't even the most stable one when chosen. It was chosen for its lower frequency was deemed more practical to implement. Still, the early beam devices had severe systematic biases in their frequency and much work has gone into prediciting them, reducing them and compensating them. The definition spells out zero magnetic field, zero temperature (zero velocity), and zero altitude on the earth's rotating geoid. There are many other practical physics details that need to be addressed. For a good example of what it takes to make a Cs clock a primary standard see: http://tf.nist.gov/general/pdf/1497.pdf http://tf.nist.gov/general/pdf/1846.pdf So strictly speaking no Cs clock actually runs at exactly 9192.631770 MHz since you need a certain amount of magnetic field to isolate the hyperfine transition, you can't run at absolute zero, no labs are actually at sea level, and atoms are not simple toys, etc. A lot of work is required to identify, predict, and quantify a host of factors. Again, please read or glance at those papers to appreciate the work that national metrology labs do to make copies of the SI second for their country. The 9192631770 cycles per second thing is the easy poster statement, the unattainable goal so to speak. The real world is quite complex. Today I would say that digital cesium, i.e. the locking of C-field from the side-band Rabi responses is among the key technologies which needs to be in a cesium to compete for systematic error removals. Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Japan Quake May Have Shortened Earth Days, Moved Axis
t...@leapsecond.com said: No. Look at the adev of the earth (earlier posting). The length of earth day varies in the *milli*second range, day to day. VLBI measurements are under 0.1 millisecond, which comes to about 1e-9 resolution. Realize that none of the NASA earthquake may have shortened press releases are about real measurements of rotation. They are just impressive models of changes in momentum. The predictions are in the *micro*second range. The press does not always distinguish between milli and micro. Ouch. Thanks for the correction/heads-up. [Here is the graph: http://www.leapsecond.com/museum/earth/1sigma1.gif and background http://www.leapsecond.com/museum/earth/ ] Do you have any guesses on the short term stability? (where short means left of your graph) Suppose all those Chinese people hopped up and down on their chair in synchrony. What would be the ideal timing? I think I'm fishing for something like a chopper amplifier, but I'm not sure how I would explain a chopper to somebody who didn't know about them. -- These are my opinions, not necessarily my employer's. I hate spam. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] The future of UTC
Le 15/07/2011 10:33, Poul-Henning Kamp a écrit : In message4e1ffa88.9050...@sfr.fr, cook michael writes: Michael, there are a few details you overlook, and rather than repeat myself, I'll point you at an article I wrote for Queue and Communications of The ACM, trying to lay out the bits: http://queue.acm.org/detail.cfm?id=1967009 Thanks for your ref. I am aware of the shortcomings of the present scheme and am not particularly pro leap second. It seems to me that the right questions are not being addressed and certainly the proposition for change as expressed and to be voted on in 2012 is premature. The US are just wanting leap seconds abolished without proposing alternative schemes covering all the requirements of time signal users.Once they have been defined , recommendations can be considered. Till then , fix the bugs. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] The future of UTC
Well, instead of leap seconds which seem to be the biggest bug bear for everyone, keep the second as 1/86,400 of the earths current rotation and adjust the factor used in the calculation of atomic time on a regular basis. No more leap seconds just leap atomic division factor. Unless you can try and convince the world that all this hours, minutes and seconds thing will have to change and some new system for defining the day with the granularity of some arbitrarily chosen factor of atomic time (which was in line with the earth's rotation 50 years ago or so) is worked out. The day that the second was defined in an atomic form has always meant that it bears little relationship to the idea of a second that was held before it and is used in the real world of wall clock time now. Yes, I'm well aware that this causes major impracticalities for technical and scientific users but the current system of linking atomic time to wall time obviously has its problems. Maybe that original linkage decision was a bad idea and the definition of the wall clock second should go back to the astronomers. Steve On 15 July 2011 21:36, cook michael michael.c...@sfr.fr wrote: Le 15/07/2011 10:33, Poul-Henning Kamp a écrit : In message4e1ffa88.9050...@sfr.fr, cook michael writes: Michael, there are a few details you overlook, and rather than repeat myself, I'll point you at an article I wrote for Queue and Communications of The ACM, trying to lay out the bits: http://queue.acm.org/detail.cfm?id=1967009 Thanks for your ref. I am aware of the shortcomings of the present scheme and am not particularly pro leap second. It seems to me that the right questions are not being addressed and certainly the proposition for change as expressed and to be voted on in 2012 is premature. The US are just wanting leap seconds abolished without proposing alternative schemes covering all the requirements of time signal users. Once they have been defined , recommendations can be considered. Till then , fix the bugs. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] The future of UTC
Steve: The scientific community needs a well defined second, physically reproducible and stable. Something like the old meter platinum bar. In fact, look at meter in Wikipedia, very similar issues, with Earth as a basis for the reference at some point. Current definition is based on length traveled by light in vacuum in one second. Right there - making the second depend on Earth rotation, changing it daily, hourly to follow the capricious wobbly Earth would change the meter length just as often. Basically 'turns back the clock' hundreds of years in accuracy, stability of the second. Now the second definition relates to frequency accuracy, there is no phase information. Nothing like a femtosecond 'ball drop' somewhere that would define an absolute time. Once the second became atomic, the Earth variations and slowdown drift (ultimately it would show the same side to the Sun like the Moon does to Earth, in a few buzillion years - astro-nuts enlighten me) become an issue, as we don't want our buzillionth generation descendants seeing sunrise at 3am (although they would get off work at 2pm!). Once the Earth day equals the Earth year, what do we do? Let's plan ahead for the UTC at that point. Nice wall calendars, January First only! And it is a Holiday! -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Steve Rooke Sent: Friday, July 15, 2011 3:18 AM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] The future of UTC Well, instead of leap seconds which seem to be the biggest bug bear for everyone, keep the second as 1/86,400 of the earths current rotation and adjust the factor used in the calculation of atomic time on a regular basis. No more leap seconds just leap atomic division factor. Unless you can try and convince the world that all this hours, minutes and seconds thing will have to change and some new system for defining the day with the granularity of some arbitrarily chosen factor of atomic time (which was in line with the earth's rotation 50 years ago or so) is worked out. The day that the second was defined in an atomic form has always meant that it bears little relationship to the idea of a second that was held before it and is used in the real world of wall clock time now. Yes, I'm well aware that this causes major impracticalities for technical and scientific users but the current system of linking atomic time to wall time obviously has its problems. Maybe that original linkage decision was a bad idea and the definition of the wall clock second should go back to the astronomers. Steve On 15 July 2011 21:36, cook michael michael.c...@sfr.fr wrote: Le 15/07/2011 10:33, Poul-Henning Kamp a écrit : In message4e1ffa88.9050...@sfr.fr, cook michael writes: Michael, there are a few details you overlook, and rather than repeat myself, I'll point you at an article I wrote for Queue and Communications of The ACM, trying to lay out the bits: http://queue.acm.org/detail.cfm?id=1967009 Thanks for your ref. I am aware of the shortcomings of the present scheme and am not particularly pro leap second. It seems to me that the right questions are not being addressed and certainly the proposition for change as expressed and to be voted on in 2012 is premature. The US are just wanting leap seconds abolished without proposing alternative schemes covering all the requirements of time signal users. Once they have been defined , recommendations can be considered. Till then , fix the bugs. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] The future of UTC
In message cactjvnxhfq79n3fvprs4xyen4ouc6w7q9ih1u2kisfg9d_f...@mail.gmail.com , Steve Rooke writes: Well, instead of leap seconds which seem to be the biggest bug bear for everyone, keep the second as 1/86,400 of the earths current rotation and adjust the factor used in the calculation of atomic time on a regular basis. We tried that in the 1960-ies, and it didn't work for anybody at all. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Austron 1295D Chassis in UK
Hi All, I've been quiet on this list for a while. Hoverer I recently aquired some Austron stuff. Surplus to my requirements is a 1200D mainframe with AC/DC input module and Dual Redundant power supply modules. Also have the manual wich I can scan. Any interest contact me off-list with an offer or it will go on ebay. I'm happy to ship worldwide but I don't think it's worth the cost. Collection from Cambridge (UK not MA) is OK too. Robert G8RPI. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] MIT RADIATION LABORATORY SERIES 1940-1945 (28 VOLS) on eBay
I see the price has come down to $500 now. Still out of my range though. Steve On 13 July 2011 14:20, Mike Feher mfe...@eozinc.com wrote: A guy is offering a complete set item # 320727122967 on eBay. I already have one complete set and lots of duplicates, otherwise I would jump at it. I like the hard copy a lot better than trying to read them on-line. Regards - Mike Mike B. Feher, EOZ Inc. 89 Arnold Blvd. Howell, NJ, 07731 732-886-5960 office 908-902-3831 cell ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] The future of UTC
On 15 July 2011 22:59, Poul-Henning Kamp p...@phk.freebsd.dk wrote: In message cactjvnxhfq79n3fvprs4xyen4ouc6w7q9ih1u2kisfg9d_f...@mail.gmail.com , Steve Rooke writes: Well, instead of leap seconds which seem to be the biggest bug bear for everyone, keep the second as 1/86,400 of the earths current rotation and adjust the factor used in the calculation of atomic time on a regular basis. We tried that in the 1960-ies, and it didn't work for anybody at all. Well, I really said that tongue in cheek just to stir up a hornets nest as I know it was not practical. The scientific community (and some industrial processes) do need a precisely defined, and reproducible, UNIT of time, that's a given. This does not mean that this atomic standard is the magic bullet for everything related to time though. In fact I'd go as far as to say that atomic time has nothing to do with real time and should never have been coupled with it in the first place. For most of the world, the correct measure of a second is 1/86,400 or the current rotation of this planet as that is the only thing that makes sense and keeps correlation over all of time. The idea of having to add a leap second every month in 2,500 years time, assuming we still exist then, seems quite ludicrous, I agree with you entirely, but the idea of the day gradually drifting out of sync with our artificial time is also not workable. I saw a comment to your article which suggested that we ditch leap seconds and leave the problem to future generations, seems an anathema to me. Steve -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Anyone know what this counter is?
There's a frequency counter on eBay http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=150631192544 but the photo is so poor it's totally impossible to make out a make or model. I contacted the seller who said he is away from the unit and can't tell me what it is or produce a better photo now. Does anyone reconise this? -- A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] The future of UTC
Jose, I couldn't agree with you more and embedded in my post was this conflict with the need to have a precise, reproducible, standard but that does not mean that this standard fits the need for wall time, with all its wobbliness and drift. When I look at time clocks they are divided into 24 hours, 60 minutes and 60 seconds. There is no, well a minute could be 59 or 60 or 61 seconds in an attempt to impose atomic time to solar time. This is like trying to impose structure on chaos. It is a very difficult problem that seems to have no solution so perhaps we should not try to impose a solution on it and therefore detach the two. As for turning back the clock hundreds of years, that is hardly the case as today's astronomers need a more accurate time than atomic time, which could be off by significant parts of a second compared to solar time, and they work out their correct time through published offsets. So what is the answer to all this, ditch the embarrassment for now and leave it to our buzillionth generation descendants to sort out. What applications do we need time correct to the femtosecond, certainly not for most of what goes on in the world, but it is vitally important for other applications, although it's not H:M:S that are not the case here, it's a precise period measurement that is required. Cheers, Steve On 15 July 2011 22:54, Jose Camara camar...@quantacorp.com wrote: Steve: The scientific community needs a well defined second, physically reproducible and stable. Something like the old meter platinum bar. In fact, look at meter in Wikipedia, very similar issues, with Earth as a basis for the reference at some point. Current definition is based on length traveled by light in vacuum in one second. Right there - making the second depend on Earth rotation, changing it daily, hourly to follow the capricious wobbly Earth would change the meter length just as often. Basically 'turns back the clock' hundreds of years in accuracy, stability of the second. Now the second definition relates to frequency accuracy, there is no phase information. Nothing like a femtosecond 'ball drop' somewhere that would define an absolute time. Once the second became atomic, the Earth variations and slowdown drift (ultimately it would show the same side to the Sun like the Moon does to Earth, in a few buzillion years - astro-nuts enlighten me) become an issue, as we don't want our buzillionth generation descendants seeing sunrise at 3am (although they would get off work at 2pm!). Once the Earth day equals the Earth year, what do we do? Let's plan ahead for the UTC at that point. Nice wall calendars, January First only! And it is a Holiday! -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Steve Rooke Sent: Friday, July 15, 2011 3:18 AM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] The future of UTC Well, instead of leap seconds which seem to be the biggest bug bear for everyone, keep the second as 1/86,400 of the earths current rotation and adjust the factor used in the calculation of atomic time on a regular basis. No more leap seconds just leap atomic division factor. Unless you can try and convince the world that all this hours, minutes and seconds thing will have to change and some new system for defining the day with the granularity of some arbitrarily chosen factor of atomic time (which was in line with the earth's rotation 50 years ago or so) is worked out. The day that the second was defined in an atomic form has always meant that it bears little relationship to the idea of a second that was held before it and is used in the real world of wall clock time now. Yes, I'm well aware that this causes major impracticalities for technical and scientific users but the current system of linking atomic time to wall time obviously has its problems. Maybe that original linkage decision was a bad idea and the definition of the wall clock second should go back to the astronomers. Steve On 15 July 2011 21:36, cook michael michael.c...@sfr.fr wrote: Le 15/07/2011 10:33, Poul-Henning Kamp a écrit : In message4e1ffa88.9050...@sfr.fr, cook michael writes: Michael, there are a few details you overlook, and rather than repeat myself, I'll point you at an article I wrote for Queue and Communications of The ACM, trying to lay out the bits: http://queue.acm.org/detail.cfm?id=1967009 Thanks for your ref. I am aware of the shortcomings of the present scheme and am not particularly pro leap second. It seems to me that the right questions are not being addressed and certainly the proposition for change as expressed and to be voted on in 2012 is premature. The US are just wanting leap seconds abolished without proposing alternative schemes covering all the requirements of time signal users. Once they have been defined , recommendations can be
[time-nuts] R: Anyone know what this counter is?
100 % Systron Donner but the model is unintelligible. dr. ing. Gianfranco Albis Politecnico di Torino Dipartimento di Elettronica corso Duca degli Abruzzi, 24 10129 Torino (Italy) tel 011-5644087 short number 8277 fax 011-5644176 mob 335-6698174 mob 335-5603745 gianfranco.al...@polito.it gianfranco.al...@alice.it = Italian amateur radio station IZ1ICI Associazione Radioamatori Italiani member Associazione Italiana per la Radio d'Epoca member American Radio Relay League member Radio Society of Great Britain member = L'uomo non smette di giocare perchè invecchia, ma invecchia perchè smette di giocare (G. B. Shaw) -Messaggio originale- Da: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] Per conto di Dr. David Kirkby Inviato: venerdì 15 luglio 2011 14.49 A: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Oggetto: [time-nuts] Anyone know what this counter is? There's a frequency counter on eBay http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=150631192544 but the photo is so poor it's totally impossible to make out a make or model. I contacted the seller who said he is away from the unit and can't tell me what it is or produce a better photo now. Does anyone reconise this? -- A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] R: Anyone know what this counter is?
Agreed. -John =--- 100 % Systron Donner but the model is unintelligible. dr. ing. Gianfranco Albis Politecnico di Torino Dipartimento di Elettronica corso Duca degli Abruzzi, 24 10129 Torino (Italy) tel 011-5644087 short number 8277 fax 011-5644176 mob 335-6698174 mob 335-5603745 gianfranco.al...@polito.it gianfranco.al...@alice.it = Italian amateur radio station IZ1ICI Associazione Radioamatori Italiani member Associazione Italiana per la Radio d'Epoca member American Radio Relay League member Radio Society of Great Britain member = L'uomo non smette di giocare perchè invecchia, ma invecchia perchè smette di giocare (G. B. Shaw) -Messaggio originale- Da: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] Per conto di Dr. David Kirkby Inviato: venerdì 15 luglio 2011 14.49 A: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Oggetto: [time-nuts] Anyone know what this counter is? There's a frequency counter on eBay http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=150631192544 but the photo is so poor it's totally impossible to make out a make or model. I contacted the seller who said he is away from the unit and can't tell me what it is or produce a better photo now. Does anyone reconise this? -- A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] The future of UTC
Hi Poul-Henning, Nice article. One thing stands out to me, though: How do you propose knowing 20 years in advance the schedule of leap seconds? Or, are you proposing that we just collect all seconds that may occur in 20 years, and dump them into a single correction, one that may be multi-second? I notice that this subject seems to make you a little grumpier than the Poul-Henning I am used to. I hope I am not treading on ground you feel already is too well covered. -Chuck Harris Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: In message4e1ffa88.9050...@sfr.fr, cook michael writes: Michael, there are a few details you overlook, and rather than repeat myself, I'll point you at an article I wrote for Queue and Communications of The ACM, trying to lay out the bits: http://queue.acm.org/detail.cfm?id=1967009 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] z3801 - holdover and recovery issue
On 7/11/2011 3:57 PM, Charles P. Steinmetz wrote: Ron wrote: Colleagues, My Z3801 has developed a peculiar problem over the last few weeks. The problem is that it seems to oscillate between gps-lock and holdover. When I checked further it seems to be oscillating between, locked, recovery, and holdover, mostly staying in recovery and holdover. Have you tried substituting another antenna and cable (even just a short cable with the antenna indoors)? This looks like what I'd expect a 3801 to do if its antenna or antenna connection were intermittent. While you have it disconnected, check that the 3801 is putting antenna power on the coax. Hi Charles, I disconnected the mushroom-style antenna and measured the voltage between the TNC centre pin and shield; This was 5 volts. Connection looked clean and unaffected by weather or moisture ingress. Reattached the connector and screwed it on until it was tight, then rechecked gpscon. Satellites are now being received. So I can only deduce from this that the TNC male (cable end) to TNC female (mushroom antenna) is intermittent. Don't understand why but it now looks like it is receiving 6 satellites and the 3801 is in recovery mode. http://www.ei2jp.org/gpscon/gpsstat.htm R ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Japan Quake May Have Shortened Earth Days, Moved Axis
On 7/14/11 10:54 PM, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: In message3209.12.6.201.213.1310686158.squir...@popaccts.quikus.com, J. For ster writes: If you got all the Chinese to just stand on a chair, it would increase the Moment of Inertia of the earth a smitch, and it would slow the rotation because of the Conservation of Angular Momentum. 1. It's not obvious that there are that many chairs in China. 2. It really does not change the momentum that much: m(pop,china) = 1.5e9 * 50kg = 7.5e10 kg m(earth) = 5.97e24 kg A ratio of roughly 8e13... At first I thought, hey, we measure ADEV variations of that sort of the level. But then, I remembered that not only is the mass small, but the radius change is small. maybe a meter out of almost 7 million. So now we're at an effect of one part in, say, 1E19. I think to do this kind of thing on a detectable scale with manmade cause, we'll need to resort to some serious terraforming (bwahaha.. project plowshare, here I come) ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Japan Quake May Have Shortened Earth Days, Moved Axis
On 7/15/11 12:10 AM, Hal Murray wrote: Does anybody have a good graph for summer vs winter? I'd expect snow loading might be big enough to show up. This is the kind of thing that Richard Gross at JPL fools with. As I recall, atmospheric drag changes on a cyclical basis too. And solid/liquid tides Among other sources, data comes from all those geodetic GPS receiving stations feeding into gipsy ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Anyone know what this counter is?
According to the logo it is a Systron-Donner counter. I don't know the model. Regards, Ignacio, EB4APL El 15/07/2011 14:48, Dr. David Kirkby escribió: There's a frequency counter on eBay http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=150631192544 but the photo is so poor it's totally impossible to make out a make or model. I contacted the seller who said he is away from the unit and can't tell me what it is or produce a better photo now. Does anyone reconise this? ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Japan Quake May Have Shortened Earth Days, Moved Axis
On 7/15/11 12:48 AM, Tom Van Baak (lab/iPad) wrote: 1E14 we might be able to notice Hal, No. Look at the adev of the earth (earlier posting). The length of earth day varies in the *milli*second range, day to day. VLBI measurements are under 0.1 millisecond, which comes to about 1e-9 resolution. Realize that none of the NASA earthquake may have shortened press releases are about real measurements of rotation. They are just impressive models of changes in momentum. The predictions are in the *micro*second range. The press does not always distinguish between milli and micro. And, there's a somewhat non-noise-free-channel from the guys doing the calculations to the public affairs officer to the media. This kind of thing is actually sort of interesting in a planetary sense. While earth is pretty stable, there are places where there are a lot more earthquakes and internal tidal forces (Jupiter's moons) and changes in rotation rate of the moons might be detectable by radar. Is Io gradually slowing? There's also coupling to Jupiter, of course (e.g. our Moon having a rotation rate synced to orbital period) What about Mercury? ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Anyone know what this counter is?
Looks very like a SD 6052, see one here: http://cgi.ebay.com/SYSTRON-DONNER-FREQUENCY-COUNTER-Model-6052-6052-10-/230589920052?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0hash=item35b03af334 http://cgi.ebay.com/SYSTRON-DONNER-FREQUENCY-COUNTER-Model-6052-6052-10-/230589920052?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0hash=item35b03af334 but the firts one has a N connector at the right input. Ignacio, EB4APL El 15/07/2011 15:10, EB4APL escribió: According to the logo it is a Systron-Donner counter. I don't know the model. Regards, Ignacio, EB4APL El 15/07/2011 14:48, Dr. David Kirkby escribió: There's a frequency counter on eBay http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=150631192544 but the photo is so poor it's totally impossible to make out a make or model. I contacted the seller who said he is away from the unit and can't tell me what it is or produce a better photo now. Does anyone reconise this? ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] The future of UTC
On 7/15/11 3:17 AM, Steve Rooke wrote: Well, instead of leap seconds which seem to be the biggest bug bear for everyone, keep the second as 1/86,400 of the earths current rotation and adjust the factor used in the calculation of atomic time on a regular basis. No more leap seconds just leap atomic division factor. Unless you can try and convince the world that all this hours, minutes and seconds thing will have to change and some new system for defining the day with the granularity of some arbitrarily chosen factor of atomic time (which was in line with the earth's rotation 50 years ago or so) is worked out. The day that the second was defined in an atomic form has always meant that it bears little relationship to the idea of a second that was held before it and is used in the real world of wall clock time now. why stay with the ridiculous base 60 system inherited from the Babylonians? Why not decimalize it. Oh wait, that was tried a few hundred years ago, but perhaps the time is now right? If the UK can decimalize pounds, shillings, and pence, perhaps it is time to bow to the decimal hegemony. As I write this at Sextidi 26 Messiador an CCXIX a 5:63:49 t.m.P. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] The future of UTC
In message 4e203b60.6080...@erols.com, Chuck Harris writes: Nice article. One thing stands out to me, though: How do you propose knowing 20 years in advance the schedule of leap seconds? That is for the geophysical community to figure out. They still get to decide when leap seconds happen, only they have to tell the rest of us 20 years in advance instead of 6 months in advance. How well they can do this (ie: how small can they keep DUT1) depends on the quality of their science (and/or coin-flips) I notice that this subject seems to make you a little grumpier than the Poul-Henning I am used to. I hope I am not treading on ground you feel already is too well covered. It is very well covered on the leapsecs list, so I sort of think we should avoid rehashing all the same arguments and facts on this list also. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Japan Quake May Have Shortened Earth Days, Moved Axis
In message 4e203b6e.8090...@earthlink.net, Jim Lux writes: On 7/14/11 10:54 PM, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: I think to do this kind of thing on a detectable scale with manmade cause, we'll need to resort to some serious terraforming (bwahaha.. project plowshare, here I come) You could probably reduce the gap by approx 1e3 by starting a rumour in China that there is free porn and roads paved with gold in the Himalayas :-) -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] R: Anyone know what this counter is?
It is a model 6053. The N connector provided input from 200MHz to 3.0 GHz if I remember correctly (long time since I worked on these). Rob K -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of gianfranco.al...@polito.it Sent: 15 July 2011 2:03 PM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: [time-nuts] R: Anyone know what this counter is? 100 % Systron Donner but the model is unintelligible. dr. ing. Gianfranco Albis Politecnico di Torino Dipartimento di Elettronica corso Duca degli Abruzzi, 24 10129 Torino (Italy) tel 011-5644087 short number 8277 fax 011-5644176 mob 335-6698174 mob 335-5603745 gianfranco.al...@polito.it gianfranco.al...@alice.it = Italian amateur radio station IZ1ICI Associazione Radioamatori Italiani member Associazione Italiana per la Radio d'Epoca member American Radio Relay League member Radio Society of Great Britain member = L'uomo non smette di giocare perchè invecchia, ma invecchia perchè smette di giocare (G. B. Shaw) -Messaggio originale- Da: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] Per conto di Dr. David Kirkby Inviato: venerdì 15 luglio 2011 14.49 A: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Oggetto: [time-nuts] Anyone know what this counter is? There's a frequency counter on eBay http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=150631192544 but the photo is so poor it's totally impossible to make out a make or model. I contacted the seller who said he is away from the unit and can't tell me what it is or produce a better photo now. Does anyone reconise this? -- A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Anyone know what this counter is?
Not a 6052 - the 6052 had a BNC input where the type N is on the photo. It is a 6053. Rob K -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of EB4APL Sent: 15 July 2011 2:21 PM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Anyone know what this counter is? Looks very like a SD 6052, see one here: http://cgi.ebay.com/SYSTRON-DONNER-FREQUENCY-COUNTER-Model-6052-6052-10-/230 589920052?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0hash=item35b03af334 http://cgi.ebay.com/SYSTRON-DONNER-FREQUENCY-COUNTER-Model-6052-6052-10-/23 0589920052?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0hash=item35b03af334 but the firts one has a N connector at the right input. Ignacio, EB4APL El 15/07/2011 15:10, EB4APL escribió: According to the logo it is a Systron-Donner counter. I don't know the model. Regards, Ignacio, EB4APL El 15/07/2011 14:48, Dr. David Kirkby escribió: There's a frequency counter on eBay http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=150631192544 but the photo is so poor it's totally impossible to make out a make or model. I contacted the seller who said he is away from the unit and can't tell me what it is or produce a better photo now. Does anyone reconise this? ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Anyone know what this counter is?
Further, the 6052 had a very flaky pre-selector design, and were difficult to get to work right across the frequency spec. Rob K -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of EB4APL Sent: 15 July 2011 2:21 PM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Anyone know what this counter is? Looks very like a SD 6052, see one here: http://cgi.ebay.com/SYSTRON-DONNER-FREQUENCY-COUNTER-Model-6052-6052-10-/230 589920052?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0hash=item35b03af334 http://cgi.ebay.com/SYSTRON-DONNER-FREQUENCY-COUNTER-Model-6052-6052-10-/23 0589920052?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0hash=item35b03af334 but the firts one has a N connector at the right input. Ignacio, EB4APL El 15/07/2011 15:10, EB4APL escribió: According to the logo it is a Systron-Donner counter. I don't know the model. Regards, Ignacio, EB4APL El 15/07/2011 14:48, Dr. David Kirkby escribió: There's a frequency counter on eBay http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=150631192544 but the photo is so poor it's totally impossible to make out a make or model. I contacted the seller who said he is away from the unit and can't tell me what it is or produce a better photo now. Does anyone reconise this? ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Anyone know what this counter is?
The SD model 6053 had a microwave mixer on the N connector which went to 3.0 GHz. We also selected some to work to 3.5 GHz (at reduced sensitivity) for work on BAe Rapier missile systems. Rob K -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Dr. David Kirkby Sent: 15 July 2011 1:49 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: [time-nuts] Anyone know what this counter is? There's a frequency counter on eBay http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=150631192544 but the photo is so poor it's totally impossible to make out a make or model. I contacted the seller who said he is away from the unit and can't tell me what it is or produce a better photo now. Does anyone reconise this? -- A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Anyone know what this counter is?
I agree, it is very probably a Systron Donner 6053, 3 GHz, nixie. Specs and (bad) pictures scanned from the manual on my server in http://www.spinelectronics.eu/ftp/SD6053.pdf I bet it comes from some remains of John's Radio stock - I remember seeing many of them there, 15 years ago. 73 - Marco IK1ODO ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] z3801 - holdover and recovery issue
On 15/07/11 15:06, Ron Hahn (EI2JP) wrote: On 7/11/2011 3:57 PM, Charles P. Steinmetz wrote: Ron wrote: Colleagues, My Z3801 has developed a peculiar problem over the last few weeks. The problem is that it seems to oscillate between gps-lock and holdover. When I checked further it seems to be oscillating between, locked, recovery, and holdover, mostly staying in recovery and holdover. Have you tried substituting another antenna and cable (even just a short cable with the antenna indoors)? This looks like what I'd expect a 3801 to do if its antenna or antenna connection were intermittent. While you have it disconnected, check that the 3801 is putting antenna power on the coax. Hi Charles, I disconnected the mushroom-style antenna and measured the voltage between the TNC centre pin and shield; This was 5 volts. Connection looked clean and unaffected by weather or moisture ingress. Reattached the connector and screwed it on until it was tight, then rechecked gpscon. Satellites are now being received. So I can only deduce from this that the TNC male (cable end) to TNC female (mushroom antenna) is intermittent. Don't understand why but it now looks like it is receiving 6 satellites and the 3801 is in recovery mode. http://www.ei2jp.org/gpscon/gpsstat.htm Somehow I am not surpriced, as similar problems have been showing up at my place. Fixing some cable and connector problems removed the issues. Hope it stays stable now and you get good lockup. Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] The future of UTC
Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: In message4e203b60.6080...@erols.com, Chuck Harris writes: Nice article. One thing stands out to me, though: How do you propose knowing 20 years in advance the schedule of leap seconds? That is for the geophysical community to figure out. They still get to decide when leap seconds happen, only they have to tell the rest of us 20 years in advance instead of 6 months in advance. How well they can do this (ie: how small can they keep DUT1) depends on the quality of their science (and/or coin-flips) I can see a 20 year prediction being seriously fraught with error. I tend to think of the machine clock as being something that should keep ticking along one SI second to the next, keeping count of the seconds since some epoch. I am not at all happy with the idea of having it magically stall, or stutter. That's something for some library function to keep track of after the fact. Unfortunately, the leapsecs list never made the threshold of my free time allocator. I subscribed for a while, but found it rife with bickering that seemed intractable. Everyone of the reasons for, or against, the leapsecond was valid, and incompatible. -Chuck Harris ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Anyone know what this counter is?
Hi, It is really a SD6053, I have a SD6052 and using external 1MHz still running OK. Bought about 15 Years ago as inop and found 500MHz range was bad... also installed a missing 9th digit nixi tubes and the driver IC and ever since it is my favorites.. The 6052 main board has all the IC installed for the 9th digit, except the tube and the driver IC. Rgds Ernie. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Japan Quake May Have Shortened Earth Days, Moved Axis
Given the monosex culture the Chinese population has set itself upon, just spread a rumor that there are abundant single women in the Himalayas that are looking for dates. -Chuck Harris Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: In message4e203b6e.8090...@earthlink.net, Jim Lux writes: On 7/14/11 10:54 PM, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: I think to do this kind of thing on a detectable scale with manmade cause, we'll need to resort to some serious terraforming (bwahaha.. project plowshare, here I come) You could probably reduce the gap by approx 1e3 by starting a rumour in China that there is free porn and roads paved with gold in the Himalayas :-) ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] The future of UTC
On 16 July 2011 01:22, Jim Lux jim...@earthlink.net wrote: On 7/15/11 3:17 AM, Steve Rooke wrote: why stay with the ridiculous base 60 system inherited from the Babylonians? Why not decimalize it. Oh wait, that was tried a few hundred years ago, but perhaps the time is now right? If the UK can decimalize pounds, shillings, and pence, perhaps it is time to bow to the decimal hegemony. I didn't see any smilies but it's a good point, although trying to get the world to swallow that pill when some countries are using the lunisolar calendar, which actually makes a lot of sense when you listen to them but to us it seems to hark back to the dark ages. So do you propose 10 hours a day with 100 minutes and 100 seconds... Shame we could not decimalise the year as well, stupid earth taking 365 and a bit days to complete an orbit. No, let's drop the whole day thing, we have electric light now so day and night no longer matter, our decimal days could fit with a decimal year. And back on earth, we have coped for centuries with the existing system without the need of femto-second accuracy of the time. Yes, we need precise measurement of a period standard and therefore a frequency standard but the two are not the same thing or have the same needs. Steve As I write this at Sextidi 26 Messiador an CCXIX a 5:63:49 t.m.P. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] The future of UTC
On 16 July 2011 02:20, Poul-Henning Kamp p...@phk.freebsd.dk wrote: In message 4e2046db.3040...@erols.com, Chuck Harris writes: Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: I can see a 20 year prediction being seriously fraught with error. Not really, starting out with just one leap second every 18 months gets you pretty good first approximation. DUT1 would probably still be less than 3 seconds. Sorry to barge in here but I thought the leap second need was about a two year thing so wouldn't that mean a ten second jump at the twenty year mark. Steve I am not at all happy with the idea of having it magically stall, or stutter. That's something for some library function to keep track of after the fact. That is exactly my point: With 6 months notice, getting the libraries updated using regular software update channels is not feasible. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] The future of UTC
Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: In message4e2046db.3040...@erols.com, Chuck Harris writes: Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: I can see a 20 year prediction being seriously fraught with error. Not really, starting out with just one leap second every 18 months gets you pretty good first approximation. DUT1 would probably still be less than 3 seconds. I would be happy with a solution that didn't shift my local noon by more than what the time-zones do already... Now if we could just do away with daylight savings time. I am not at all happy with the idea of having it magically stall, or stutter. That's something for some library function to keep track of after the fact. That is exactly my point: With 6 months notice, getting the libraries updated using regular software update channels is not feasible. We are in complete agreement on that! -Chuck Harris ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Anyone know what this counter is?
Apols for hijacking the topic, but does anyone have info on another Nixie based frequency counter? It's a Venner TSA6636/2M and uses early Fairchild Micrologic ICs, it's rather ill at the moment, so any info would be gratefully received. Fingers crossed and thanks in advance! David, G4IRQ On 15/07/2011 14:58, erniepe...@aol.com wrote: Hi, It is really a SD6053, I have a SD6052 and using external 1MHz still running OK. Bought about 15 Years ago as inop and found 500MHz range was bad... also installed a missing 9th digit nixi tubes and the driver IC and ever since it is my favorites.. The 6052 main board has all the IC installed for the 9th digit, except the tube and the driver IC. Rgds Ernie. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] The future of UTC
In message cactjvnyewpksnjbt3dsf5kdvtq0jpwxm6x2ruxdxtcrp3jc...@mail.gmail.com , Steve Rooke writes: Sorry to barge in here but I thought the leap second need was about a two year thing so wouldn't that mean a ten second jump at the twenty year mark. No. schedule them 20 years in advance is not the same as schedule once every 20 seconds. If the time-lords want a leap second 2031-12-31, the have to say so before before 2011-12-31, if they want one 2032-06-30, they have to say so before 2012-06-30, etc. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] The future of UTC
On 16 July 2011 02:51, Poul-Henning Kamp p...@phk.freebsd.dk wrote: In message cactjvnyewpksnjbt3dsf5kdvtq0jpwxm6x2ruxdxtcrp3jc...@mail.gmail.com , Steve Rooke writes: Sorry to barge in here but I thought the leap second need was about a two year thing so wouldn't that mean a ten second jump at the twenty year mark. No. schedule them 20 years in advance is not the same as schedule once every 20 seconds. Ah! I get you. Not 10 leap seconds at 20 year intervals, just an almanac to indicate when they will be for up to 20 years in advance. I guess that means they could take a bye for any scheduled event that is not required, as in the 7 year period without one. Steve If the time-lords want a leap second 2031-12-31, the have to say so before before 2011-12-31, if they want one 2032-06-30, they have to say so before 2012-06-30, etc. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] The future of UTC
In message cactjvny8h2ethr_m6dquxhabhjb9nfgyauhjcn1bf-umh+k...@mail.gmail.com , Steve Rooke writes: Ah! I get you. Not 10 leap seconds at 20 year intervals, just an almanac to indicate when they will be for up to 20 years in advance. I guess that means they could take a bye for any scheduled event that is not required, as in the 7 year period without one. Nope, once they have scheduled a leap-second, it happens. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] The future of UTC
On 16 July 2011 03:01, Poul-Henning Kamp p...@phk.freebsd.dk wrote: In message cactjvny8h2ethr_m6dquxhabhjb9nfgyauhjcn1bf-umh+k...@mail.gmail.com , Steve Rooke writes: Ah! I get you. Not 10 leap seconds at 20 year intervals, just an almanac to indicate when they will be for up to 20 years in advance. I guess that means they could take a bye for any scheduled event that is not required, as in the 7 year period without one. Nope, once they have scheduled a leap-second, it happens. And if it's not needed? Steve -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] The future of UTC
In message CACTjVNynr5Vhrj=e+gfungebpa_u8__26bhjamk2nv6uxgi...@mail.gmail.com , Steve Rooke writes: Nope, once they have scheduled a leap-second, it happens. And if it's not needed? It is needed, otherwise they would not have scheduled it. If they predict wrong all that happens is that DUT1 wanders a bit more around and they will have to catch up with it over the next couple of decades. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] The future of UTC
On Fri, Jul 15, 2011 at 23:09, Steve Rooke sar10...@gmail.com wrote: On 16 July 2011 03:01, Poul-Henning Kamp p...@phk.freebsd.dk wrote: In message cactjvny8h2ethr_m6dquxhabhjb9nfgyauhjcn1bf-umh+k...@mail.gmail.com , Steve Rooke writes: Ah! I get you. Not 10 leap seconds at 20 year intervals, just an almanac to indicate when they will be for up to 20 years in advance. I guess that means they could take a bye for any scheduled event that is not required, as in the 7 year period without one. Nope, once they have scheduled a leap-second, it happens. And if it's not needed? Then they are exiled from Gallifrey, and fed to the Daleks. Seriously, if we are announcing 20 years in advance, we accept that DUT may be as large as 4 or 5 secs. In which case, having an extra one (or not having one when required) will not materially change the _long-term_ tracking. Within a few years, the effect should lessen. Although I would rather that leap secs stay, and DUT is kept small, if we are not changing the definition of UTC, but loosening the strictness of the tracking in the short-term, this may be a good compromise. PHK, in your proposal, the long term stability of low, bounded DUT would be guaranteed? -- Sanjeev Gupta +65 98551208 http://www.linkedin.com/in/ghane ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] The future of UTC
On 16 July 2011 03:14, Poul-Henning Kamp p...@phk.freebsd.dk wrote: In message CACTjVNynr5Vhrj=e+gfungebpa_u8__26bhjamk2nv6uxgi...@mail.gmail.com , Steve Rooke writes: Nope, once they have scheduled a leap-second, it happens. And if it's not needed? It is needed, otherwise they would not have scheduled it. So, your saying they will predict all the wobbling, drift, internal earth changes, etc and do this with any accuracy 20 years in advance, when we have already seen significant variations in this. If they predict wrong all that happens is that DUT1 wanders a bit more around and they will have to catch up with it over the next couple of decades. Given that straight-jacket, I suggest they schedule one every year then they can add and subtract them willy nilly. Yes, New Years Day, worldwide let's change the clock regardless. It would make it much more fun for all of us to watch what happens. Yes, I'm game for that, great idea. Cheers, Steve -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] The future of UTC
In message cahzk5wcrvny8jv2xswycnbvq3wxmra_yezofcjpufz9nfdk...@mail.gmail.com , Sanjeev Gupta writes: PHK, in your proposal, the long term stability of low, bounded DUT would be guaranteed? Only guaranteed in the sense that I tacitly presume the geophysicisists will schedule leap seconds with care, there is no numerical guarantees involved, other than we will know leap seconds 20 years in advance. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Anyone know what this counter is?
On 07/15/11 02:44 PM, Marco IK1ODO -2 wrote: I agree, it is very probably a Systron Donner 6053, 3 GHz, nixie. Specs and (bad) pictures scanned from the manual on my server in http://www.spinelectronics.eu/ftp/SD6053.pdf I bet it comes from some remains of John's Radio stock - I remember seeing many of them there, 15 years ago. 73 - Marco IK1ODO Thank you. Someone else sent me a link to a more comprehensive manual http://www.k7jrl.com/pub/manuals/systrondonner/6053/Systron-Donner%206053%20Frequency%20Counter%20OM%20Manual.pdf I did consider putting a small bid on it, but have decided not to bother. I'll look for something better. -- A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Anyone know what this counter is?
Search 'systron donner counter' and you get to the Wikipedia article of nixie tue counters, where a bad, but not so horrible picture of a SD 6032? 6052? 4062? (try your own squit-eye OCR). 6052 looks similar, but no N connector (perhaps prescaler option going higher?) see http://cgi.ebay.com/SYSTRON-DONNER-FREQUENCY-COUNTER-Model-6052-6052-10-/230 589920052 -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Dr. David Kirkby Sent: Friday, July 15, 2011 5:49 AM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: [time-nuts] Anyone know what this counter is? There's a frequency counter on eBay http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=150631192544 but the photo is so poor it's totally impossible to make out a make or model. I contacted the seller who said he is away from the unit and can't tell me what it is or produce a better photo now. Does anyone reconise this? -- A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] The future of UTC
I think before adding to the fire of UTC1, UTC7 etc. why not just abolish this silliness called Daylight Savings Time? If there is any benefit to it, just change business operating hours instead. In summer you work 10 to 6 instead of 9 to 5 and we don't have to go around the house, car, etc. changing clocks. And Congress doesn't have to change the dates the VCRs were programmed to do automatically, leaving time for them to take care of something more important... I used to have pet tortoises that would always ignore DST, looking for their food one hour earlier... -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Steve Rooke Sent: Friday, July 15, 2011 8:24 AM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] The future of UTC On 16 July 2011 03:14, Poul-Henning Kamp p...@phk.freebsd.dk wrote: In message CACTjVNynr5Vhrj=e+gfungebpa_u8__26bhjamk2nv6uxgi...@mail.gmail.com , Steve Rooke writes: Nope, once they have scheduled a leap-second, it happens. And if it's not needed? It is needed, otherwise they would not have scheduled it. So, your saying they will predict all the wobbling, drift, internal earth changes, etc and do this with any accuracy 20 years in advance, when we have already seen significant variations in this. If they predict wrong all that happens is that DUT1 wanders a bit more around and they will have to catch up with it over the next couple of decades. Given that straight-jacket, I suggest they schedule one every year then they can add and subtract them willy nilly. Yes, New Years Day, worldwide let's change the clock regardless. It would make it much more fun for all of us to watch what happens. Yes, I'm game for that, great idea. Cheers, Steve -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] The future of UTC
In message 002101cc430a$c71cd030$55567090$@com, Jose Camara writes: I think before adding to the fire of UTC1, UTC7 etc. why not just abolish this silliness called Daylight Savings Time? Feel free to: That is under the control of your national government and you can use that for whatever you want. Leap-seconds on the other hand are global and controlled by only the thinnest laquer of democratic control, so that is in no way comparable. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] The future of UTC
I agree on DST, I was very disappointed when Indiana joined the lemmings. I'd take it one more step, and eliminate time zones. Everyone operates on UTC(x) So you get to work at 2100, and work till 0500.. I know my mom is up till 0700. No matter where you are, you know what time it is, and no more silliness. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] The future of UTC
- Original Message From: Jose Camara camar...@quantacorp.com To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Fri, July 15, 2011 9:18:03 AM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] The future of UTC I think before adding to the fire of UTC1, UTC7 etc. why not just abolish this silliness called Daylight Savings Time? If there is any benefit to it, just change business operating hours instead. In summer you work 10 to 6 instead of 9 to 5 and we don't have to go around the house, car, etc. changing clocks. And Congress doesn't have to change the dates the VCRs were programmed to do automatically, leaving time for them to take care of something more important... I used to have pet tortoises that would always ignore DST, looking for their food one hour earlier... -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Steve Rooke Sent: Friday, July 15, 2011 8:24 AM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] The future of UTC On 16 July 2011 03:14, Poul-Henning Kamp p...@phk.freebsd.dk wrote: In message CACTjVNynr5Vhrj=e+gfungebpa_u8__26bhjamk2nv6uxgi...@mail.gmail.com , Steve Rooke writes: Nope, once they have scheduled a leap-second, it happens. And if it's not needed? It is needed, otherwise they would not have scheduled it. So, your saying they will predict all the wobbling, drift, internal earth changes, etc and do this with any accuracy 20 years in advance, when we have already seen significant variations in this. If they predict wrong all that happens is that DUT1 wanders a bit more around and they will have to catch up with it over the next couple of decades. Given that straight-jacket, I suggest they schedule one every year then they can add and subtract them willy nilly. Yes, New Years Day, worldwide let's change the clock regardless. It would make it much more fun for all of us to watch what happens. Yes, I'm game for that, great idea. Cheers, Steve -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] The future of UTC
Sorry for the prior email with no text. If the world could agree on the dates when DST adjustments are applied (if individual countries, states etc elect to make DST adjustments) and make any needed leap second adjustments at the same time that would be a positive step IMHO. - Original Message From: Jose Camara camar...@quantacorp.com To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Fri, July 15, 2011 9:18:03 AM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] The future of UTC I think before adding to the fire of UTC1, UTC7 etc. why not just abolish this silliness called Daylight Savings Time? If there is any benefit to it, just change business operating hours instead. In summer you work 10 to 6 instead of 9 to 5 and we don't have to go around the house, car, etc. changing clocks. And Congress doesn't have to change the dates the VCRs were programmed to do automatically, leaving time for them to take care of something more important... I used to have pet tortoises that would always ignore DST, looking for their food one hour earlier... -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Steve Rooke Sent: Friday, July 15, 2011 8:24 AM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] The future of UTC On 16 July 2011 03:14, Poul-Henning Kamp p...@phk.freebsd.dk wrote: In message CACTjVNynr5Vhrj=e+gfungebpa_u8__26bhjamk2nv6uxgi...@mail.gmail.com , Steve Rooke writes: Nope, once they have scheduled a leap-second, it happens. And if it's not needed? It is needed, otherwise they would not have scheduled it. So, your saying they will predict all the wobbling, drift, internal earth changes, etc and do this with any accuracy 20 years in advance, when we have already seen significant variations in this. If they predict wrong all that happens is that DUT1 wanders a bit more around and they will have to catch up with it over the next couple of decades. Given that straight-jacket, I suggest they schedule one every year then they can add and subtract them willy nilly. Yes, New Years Day, worldwide let's change the clock regardless. It would make it much more fun for all of us to watch what happens. Yes, I'm game for that, great idea. Cheers, Steve -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] The future of UTC
As long as you are going to re-educate everyone on Earth to use your new system why not at the same time convert to metric time? The unit of time should be the day (with length averaged over say, 1,000 years). But for most uses people would think in terms of milli-days or mD. I hinted at the problem with any big change when I said re-educate everyone on Earth. I think we are stuck with what we have. On Fri, Jul 15, 2011 at 9:28 AM, David VanHorn d.vanh...@elec-solutions.com wrote: I agree on DST, I was very disappointed when Indiana joined the lemmings. I'd take it one more step, and eliminate time zones. Everyone operates on UTC(x) So you get to work at 2100, and work till 0500.. I know my mom is up till 0700. No matter where you are, you know what time it is, and no more silliness. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Chairs in China...
Later this month my wife will be traveling in China. Should I advise her to bring her own chair on the trip in case she should have a sudden desire to want to sit down? Burt, K6OQK At 06:27 AM 7/15/2011, time-nuts-requ...@febo.com wrote On 7/14/11 10:54 PM, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: In message3209.12.6.201.213.1310686158.squir...@popaccts.quikus.com, J. For ster writes: If you got all the Chinese to just stand on a chair, it would increase the Moment of Inertia of the earth a smitch, and it would slow the rotation because of the Conservation of Angular Momentum. 1. It's not obvious that there are that many chairs in China. Burt I. Weiner Associates Broadcast Technical Services Glendale, California U.S.A. b...@att.net www.biwa.cc K6OQK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Broadband synthesizer
On 13/07/11 15:01, Jim Lux wrote: On 7/13/11 5:55 AM, paul swed wrote: hp3335 then as I sent last night or 3325... we use a lot of them at work. takes a 10MHz input, settable to microhertz, etc. While I love my 3325 it has one flaw which can be annoying... a dial. If yóu get a 33250 instead you have a dial at least. So it depends on what you do and the spectral clean-ness needed. Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Panel Mount Frequency Counter
I am looking for a Frequency Counter I can Panel Mount. I am cobbling up a Rb in a Box for portable use and the counter will tell me if I have a signal. Any ideas where I can find something like that ? Frequency range not important (only need up to 30 MHz or so). Thanks, Dick, W1KSZ ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Panel Mount Frequency Counter
In message 25258838.1310758421197.javamail.r...@elwamui-norfolk.atl.sa.earthli nk.net, Richard W. Solomon writes: Any ideas where I can find something like that ? Frequency range not important (only need up to 30 MHz or so). There used to be an intersil chip you wired up to a 8-digit LED display and an xtal, containing the entire digital part of a frequency counter. Alternatively, many microcontrollers have counter-inputs that can run that fast. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Panel Mount Frequency Counter
Would something that just shows 10.0 be OK ? -pete On Fri, Jul 15, 2011 at 12:33 PM, Richard W. Solomon w1...@earthlink.net wrote: I am looking for a Frequency Counter I can Panel Mount. I am cobbling up a Rb in a Box for portable use and the counter will tell me if I have a signal. Any ideas where I can find something like that ? Frequency range not important (only need up to 30 MHz or so). Thanks, Dick, W1KSZ ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Panel Mount Frequency Counter
There are a number of kits available on ebay and other places. Bob ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Panel Mount Frequency Counter
Hi Richard, Check out LSI's offerings. http://www.lsicsi.com/counters.htm There are several and one may fit your needs. BillWB6BNQ Richard W. Solomon wrote: I am looking for a Frequency Counter I can Panel Mount. I am cobbling up a Rb in a Box for portable use and the counter will tell me if I have a signal. Any ideas where I can find something like that ? Frequency range not important (only need up to 30 MHz or so). Thanks, Dick, W1KSZ ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Panel Mount Frequency Counter
Hi Dick, There are any number of good PIC + LCD module designs out there e.g. http://www.qsl.net/om3cph/om3cph.html and http://www.embedds.com/discover-the-mystery-of-16f84-pic-frequency-counter/ You can also find them on ebay, e.g 170658478755 150444654388 Robert G8RPI. --- On Fri, 15/7/11, Richard W. Solomon w1...@earthlink.net wrote: From: Richard W. Solomon w1...@earthlink.net Subject: [time-nuts] Panel Mount Frequency Counter To: time-nuts@febo.com Date: Friday, 15 July, 2011, 20:33 I am looking for a Frequency Counter I can Panel Mount. I am cobbling up a Rb in a Box for portable use and the counter will tell me if I have a signal. Any ideas where I can find something like that ? Frequency range not important (only need up to 30 MHz or so). Thanks, Dick, W1KSZ ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Panel Mount Frequency Counter
The problem is if you use your Rb as a reference for the counter. It will always read 10MHz. If you don't use it, something will drift. I opted to just panel mount an LED to indicate lock. -Bob On Fri, Jul 15, 2011 at 1:57 PM, Richard W. Solomon w1...@earthlink.netwrote: That was quick, got what I needed right away. Thanks, Ashley. 73, Dick, W1KSZ -Original Message- From: Richard W. Solomon w1...@earthlink.net Sent: Jul 15, 2011 12:33 PM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: [time-nuts] Panel Mount Frequency Counter I am looking for a Frequency Counter I can Panel Mount. I am cobbling up a Rb in a Box for portable use and the counter will tell me if I have a signal. Any ideas where I can find something like that ? Frequency range not important (only need up to 30 MHz or so). Thanks, Dick, W1KSZ ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Panel Mount Frequency Counter
ICM7216, ICM7226 (and several others). -- FL - Original meddelelse - There used to be an intersil chip you wired up to a 8-digit LED display and an xtal, containing the entire digital part of a frequency counter. Alternatively, many microcontrollers have counter-inputs that can run that fast. -- Poul-Henning Kamp ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Panel Mount Frequency Counter
I have one of these. Think I paid about $30 total for it. It is out of stock but they still have all the technical details, the scematics and so on. http://www.norcalqrp.org/fcc1.htm On Fri, Jul 15, 2011 at 12:33 PM, Richard W. Solomon w1...@earthlink.net wrote: I am looking for a Frequency Counter I can Panel Mount. I am cobbling up a Rb in a Box for portable use and the counter will tell me if I have a signal. Any ideas where I can find something like that ? Frequency range not important (only need up to 30 MHz or so). -- Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Panel Mount Frequency Counter
I would love to find one like this that takes a 10 MHz ext ref, and will count 16 MHz to at least 1 Hz. I need two of those today. From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Chris Albertson [albertson.ch...@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, July 15, 2011 3:24 PM To: Richard W. Solomon; Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Panel Mount Frequency Counter I have one of these. Think I paid about $30 total for it. It is out of stock but they still have all the technical details, the scematics and so on. http://www.norcalqrp.org/fcc1.htm On Fri, Jul 15, 2011 at 12:33 PM, Richard W. Solomon w1...@earthlink.net wrote: I am looking for a Frequency Counter I can Panel Mount. I am cobbling up a Rb in a Box for portable use and the counter will tell me if I have a signal. Any ideas where I can find something like that ? Frequency range not important (only need up to 30 MHz or so). -- Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] The future of UTC
On 07/15/11 05:18 PM, Jose Camara wrote: I think before adding to the fire of UTC1, UTC7 etc. why not just abolish this silliness called Daylight Savings Time? I would agree with that. I play chess on a chess server The server runs at EST. Some team games are scheduled and the organisers insist on using the server time. Normally my ofset from the server is 4 hours, but for a couple of weeks it is 5 hours, as the UK and US implement DST on different days. I've suggested the server switch to using GMT or UTC (same thing for the practicalities of organising a chess game). The orgainsers tell me most Americans don't understand GMT or UTC. Since more Americans play on the server than anyone else, we have to suffer the consequences. I really fail to see what DST achieves. People will do jobs at a time appropriate for doing them. DST is just one big pain. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] z3801 - holdover and recovery issue
So I can only deduce from this that the TNC male (cable end) to TNC female (mushroom antenna) is intermittent. Don't understand why but it now looks like it is receiving 6 satellites and the 3801 is in recovery mode. I wouldn't be quite so sure My Z3801 stopped working right a while ago. I fiddled with the antenna and such. Sometimes it would work well enough to confuse me, then it would fade out again. It finally started working correctly after I power cycled it. It might have been a power glitch. It might have been a software bug that just happened to get tickled by my setup which has a poor antenna location. -- These are my opinions, not necessarily my employer's. I hate spam. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Panel Mount Frequency Counter
Not sure what you mean by 'panel mount'. 19 rack mount? Also, what resolution and what size limitation? You might look at the HP 5315A/B or 5316A/B. You could cut out an appropriate opening in your panel for it. They are relatively small 100 MHz counters and have several options for time base along with options to 1.3 GHz. Good luck. Joe -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Richard W. Solomon Sent: Friday, July 15, 2011 2:34 PM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: [time-nuts] Panel Mount Frequency Counter I am looking for a Frequency Counter I can Panel Mount. I am cobbling up a Rb in a Box for portable use and the counter will tell me if I have a signal. Any ideas where I can find something like that ? Frequency range not important (only need up to 30 MHz or so). Thanks, Dick, W1KSZ ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] NERC TEC test postponed
I've been told the NERC has decided to postpone their July 14 TEC-elimination test. Sorry I don't have a URL with more information. Those of you logging 60 Hz data should continue. As you know from my web site, measuring any sort of time/freq source is interesting. If nothing else you will have a longer baseline when/if the test is rescheduled. /tvb ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] The future of UTC
Mark, If the planet were not inclined 23 degrees this might make sense. But it turns out daylight times differ by latitude and season and hemisphere. So it is not surprising that nations, or even states within large nations, assume the right to set their own rules of local time. /tvb On Jul 15, 2011, at 9:50 AM, Mark Spencer mspencer12...@yahoo.ca wrote: Sorry for the prior email with no text. If the world could agree on the dates when DST adjustments are applied (if individual countries, states etc elect to make DST adjustments) and make any needed leap second adjustments at the same time that would be a positive step IMHO. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] GPSDO Disciplined Rb
I saw a rather small Rb on TenMHz.com that said it used a GPS board to discipline it. This looks like a way to go. I have a couple of Jupiter GPS Receivers that I used to build my 10 MHz standards using the G3RUH design. But, connecting the G3RUH 10 Mhz standard to the LPRO-101 Rb is beyond my ken at this time. Is there any documentation out there that I could use for guidance ? I did the Google Dance and really didn't find anything useful, came close but no cigar !! Thanks for any help, Dick, W1KSZ ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] GPSDO Disciplined Rb
Love the Miller design . We built three ( two in service and one for backup), using the Isotemp OCXO he specified... I couldn't see the need to have a Rb. speaking of which, there are a couple Lucent units on Ebay. A disciplined receiver/ocxo and the companion unit that has an efratom Rb in it. Those might be cool to hook up and see how they work Thank You Kiss-Electronics Ms Ashley Hall 183 N 5th Avenue Cornelius, Oregon 97113 W7DUZ www.kiss-electronics.com -Original Message- From: Richard W. Solomon w1...@earthlink.net To: time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Fri, Jul 15, 2011 4:09 pm Subject: [time-nuts] GPSDO Disciplined Rb I saw a rather small Rb on TenMHz.com that said it used a GPS board to iscipline it. This looks like a way to go. I have a couple of Jupiter PS Receivers that I used to build my 10 MHz standards using the G3RUH esign. ut, connecting the G3RUH 10 Mhz standard to the LPRO-101 Rb is beyond y ken at this time. Is there any documentation out there that I could se for guidance ? I did the Google Dance and really didn't find anything seful, came close but no cigar !! Thanks for any help, Dick, W1KSZ __ ime-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com o unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts nd follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
