[time-nuts] PRS10 lamp voltage

[Jean-Paul Sabatier]

Hello,

I am a new subscriber to the list ! I am located in France and I play with
time and frequency instruments on my free time.

Recently I've bought an used FS725 unit with a PRS10 oscillator in it. I
was wondering how can I estimated the age of the Rubidium oscillator. I
think the age is related to the lamp voltage but which voltage should I
read ? In the documentation, there are a lot of parameters, for example
AD3 : Drain voltage to lamp FET / 10
AD4 : Gate voltage to lamp FET / 10
Which one is related to the lamp aging and what are the standard values for
a new oscillator ?

I have an LPRO oscillator and with it I can measure easily the voltage
directly. A new unit is at about 15V and it decrease slowly (about 20
mV/month).

Thanks!

jps
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Re: [time-nuts] [EXTERNAL EMAIL] Sayrosa 607B Frequency Synthesiser

[REEVES Paul]

Hi Nigel,

It will also be the first info on the 607B that I have ever seen I will 
certainly download it when I get home (work filtering forbids it, with much 
else). Should allow me to fish my one out of the attic and actually use it 
- after letting the magic smoke out of the tants, of course :-)
Many thanks, in advance, for your efforts.

Regards,
Paul,G8GJA

-Original Message-
From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of gandalfg8--- 
via time-nuts
Sent: 10 June 2018 20:31
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: [EXTERNAL EMAIL] [time-nuts] Sayrosa 607B Frequency Synthesiser

Perhaps not a very common item, and probably restricted to the UK, but I have 
seen these mentioned here before.

The 607B was a very nice 2 to 30MHz synthesiser used as the drive unit in the 
UK Diplomatic Service Piccolo radio system.

Both Sayrosa and Piccolo are long gone, and information has always been hard to 
come by, but I've just scanned the 607B Training Manual and 607B Technical 
Handbook and uploaded PDF versions of both to Mediafire.

This documentation is quite limited but so far is all I've ever seen for the 
607B.

Both can be found in a single file at

http://www.mediafire.com/file/c6vv5t71cq741sd/Sayrosa%20607B.zip

For what it's worth, my experience with these has been that by far the most 
common fault is the familiar shorted tantalum syndrome.

Nigel GM8PZR
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Re: [time-nuts] Source for DC-blocking 50-ohm terminators? (Spectracom 8140)

[paul swed]

Julien
Thanks for the link I downloaded the manual and it all makes sense now.
Yes just lift the inductors to clear the DC. Its is actually for line
powered amplifiers as someone mentioned.
You would of thought there would be a power jumper per BNC.
Good luck.
Paul
wb8tsl

On Mon, Jun 4, 2018 at 1:50 PM, Taka Kamiya via time-nuts <
time-nuts@febo.com> wrote:

> I had the same issue looking for a DC blocking 50ohm terminator.  They
> simply do not exist.  So I just made one.  Took a BNC male connector with a
> chassis mount flange.  50ohm and 0.015 microfarad capacitor in series.
> (because that's what I had on my desk at the time)  The frequency is low
> enough, level is high enough, and some reflections are not going to cause
> any issues.  It has been working for me for quite some time.
> ---
> (Mr.) Taka Kamiya
> I'm stuck in a wormhole  Hello, worms!
>
> On ‎Monday‎, ‎June‎ ‎4‎, ‎2018‎ ‎12‎:‎10‎:‎15‎ ‎AM‎ ‎EDT, Julien
> Goodwin  wrote:
>
>  I'm looking at using a Spectracom 8140 for 10Mhz distribution, and they
> specify using a DC-blocking 50-ohm terminator on each run.
>
> These seem to be odd enough that none of my usual sources have them
> (75-ohm DC-blocking terminators yes, 50-ohm, no).
>
> While it's easy enough to chain a DC block and a terminator, I'd prefer
> a single module I can more obviously label as the line termination.
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Re: [time-nuts] Source for DC-blocking 50-ohm terminators? (Spectracom 8140)

[paul swed]

Yes I would say you have to build it.
The only reason make such a requirement is if the amplifier is not using a
split power supply. But instead is a single supply with the output at 50%
of the supply voltage. It could be very reasonable if what I suggest is
true to open the amp and install the caps within it.
Just a thought.
Regards
Paul
wb8tsl

On Mon, Jun 4, 2018 at 10:06 AM, Julien Goodwin 
wrote:

> Making my own that fits in either the mini Pomona boxes (which has
> BNCs)[1] or the nice really tiny Crystek SMA housings[2] with a BNC to
> SMA looks like it's probably the sensible option.
>
> 1: https://www.pomonaelectronics.com/products/boxes/boxes-with-connectors
>
> 2: http://www.crystek.com/microwave/spec-sheets/
> enclosure/SMA-KIT-1.3MF.pdf
>
> On 04/06/18 22:52, Bob kb8tq wrote:
> > Hi
> >
> > DC blocked 50 ohm terminations are indeed a bit odd. One answer is to
> simply use the
> > 75 ohm version and move on. The gotcha there is that they may / may not
> have a block
> > that works well at 10 MHz ( = the cap is to small ). The one thing *not*
> to do is to run the
> > device with no termination on the cable. The gizmo will be perfectly
> happy. Your lab will
> > be a mess. The coax will normally be long enough to make a great antenna
> at 10 MHz.
> > Leaving the end un-terminated puts it in “antenna mode”. You will have
> RF all over everything.
> > I have a lot of experience with this specific problem …..
> >
> > Bob
> >
> >> On Jun 4, 2018, at 12:09 AM, Julien Goodwin 
> wrote:
> >>
> >> I'm looking at using a Spectracom 8140 for 10Mhz distribution, and they
> >> specify using a DC-blocking 50-ohm terminator on each run.
> >>
> >> These seem to be odd enough that none of my usual sources have them
> >> (75-ohm DC-blocking terminators yes, 50-ohm, no).
> >>
> >> While it's easy enough to chain a DC block and a terminator, I'd prefer
> >> a single module I can more obviously label as the line termination.
> >> ___
> >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/
> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> >> and follow the instructions there.
> >
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> >
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Re: [time-nuts] TrueTime XL-AK Issues

[paul swed]

Dick
Thats great progress. Certainly its worth digging a bit deeper see whats up
on the antenna.
The way they sense the antenna is usually a single transistor sensing the
current and pulling a line high or low.
The micro senses that and reacts. It usually really easy to figure the
scheme out.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL

On Fri, May 25, 2018 at 5:19 PM, Richard Solomon <w1...@outlook.com> wrote:

> The second unit locked up and showed 4 satellites at the time I looked.
>
> Next step is to replace the battery and see if it saves the setup.
>
>
> In particular, I will be interested in seeing if it stores the date OK.
>
>
> I found in the first unit what looked like a bad solder joint, but after
>
> fixing that it still shows an "Open" Antenna. Unless I have a major
>
> brain bleep, it will be relegated to Organ Donor status.
>
>
> But, one out of two ain't bad !!
>
>
> 73, Dick, W1KSZ
>
>
> Sent from Outlook<http://aka.ms/weboutlook>
> 
> From: Richard Solomon
> Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2018 3:46:16 PM
> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] TrueTime XL-AK Issues
>
>
> Well, I think one unit has had it. It says the Antenna is open. If I
>
> connect the coax to the second unit, it says the Antenna is OK.
>
>
> A look at the board reveals nothing amiss, but I'll put it aside
>
> and look closer later. If nothing else it becomes an Organ Donor.
>
>
> The second unit is doing a sky survey now. I'll give it a few more
>
> hours to see what develops.
>
>
> Thanks, Dick, W1KSZ
>
>
> Sent from Outlook<http://aka.ms/weboutlook>
> 
> From: time-nuts <time-nuts-boun...@febo.com> on behalf of paul swed <
> paulsw...@gmail.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 6:39:05 PM
> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] TrueTime XL-AK Issues
>
> Great to hear let us know how it turns out.
> Regards
>
> On Wed, May 23, 2018 at 4:58 PM, Richard Solomon <w1...@outlook.com>
> wrote:
>
> > In further button pushing, I found the Date was 1998 !! So, I manually
> > reset the Date
> >
> > and Time and it's now doing a Satellite search.
> >
> >
> > The previous measurements must have been some artifact of Holdover.
> >
> >
> > One is now merrily searching, I'll let it run for a while.
> >
> >
> > And, I think you are correct, the Battery must surely be dead by now.
> I'll
> >
> > look into replacing it.
> >
> >
> > Thanks for replying,
> >
> >
> > 73, Dick, W1KSZ
> >
> >
> > Sent from Outlook<http://aka.ms/weboutlook>
> > 
> > From: time-nuts <time-nuts-boun...@febo.com> on behalf of paul swed <
> > paulsw...@gmail.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 12:56:46 PM
> > To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
> > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] TrueTime XL-AK Issues
> >
> > Wow
> > They actually came up. A site survey can take some 20 hours.
> > There should be some LED indicator that says the status is locking.
> > Let them run a day or two.
> > If there is a LI battery to retain information that may be long gone.
> > Replacing that would give you a fatser start.
> > Had to do this on some Odetics receivers.
> > Good luck
> > Paul.
> >
> > On Wed, May 23, 2018 at 3:26 PM, Bob kb8tq <kb...@n1k.org> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi
> > >
> > > My guess would be that they are not in a mode that allows them to lock.
> > > Some
> > > GPSDO’s require a “start” command. Others hold off locking until a site
> > > survey
> > > is complete ( or they have verified the last survey is correct ).
> > >
> > > Bob
> > >
> > > > On May 23, 2018, at 1:31 PM, Richard Solomon <w1...@outlook.com>
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I have had two of these sitting on the shelf for years. Today I
> decided
> > > to see if they work.
> > > >
> > > > It's a slow week !!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I hooked them up to my external GPS Antenna through my Symmetricon
> > > Splitter and
> > > >
> > > > looked at the 10 MHz output on my HP 5334B (reference input derived
> > from
> > > a Trimble
> > > >
> > > > T-Bolt).
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > They both show a number of Satellites

Re: [time-nuts] TrueTime XL-AK Issues

[paul swed]

Great to hear let us know how it turns out.
Regards

On Wed, May 23, 2018 at 4:58 PM, Richard Solomon <w1...@outlook.com> wrote:

> In further button pushing, I found the Date was 1998 !! So, I manually
> reset the Date
>
> and Time and it's now doing a Satellite search.
>
>
> The previous measurements must have been some artifact of Holdover.
>
>
> One is now merrily searching, I'll let it run for a while.
>
>
> And, I think you are correct, the Battery must surely be dead by now. I'll
>
> look into replacing it.
>
>
> Thanks for replying,
>
>
> 73, Dick, W1KSZ
>
>
> Sent from Outlook<http://aka.ms/weboutlook>
> ____
> From: time-nuts <time-nuts-boun...@febo.com> on behalf of paul swed <
> paulsw...@gmail.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 12:56:46 PM
> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] TrueTime XL-AK Issues
>
> Wow
> They actually came up. A site survey can take some 20 hours.
> There should be some LED indicator that says the status is locking.
> Let them run a day or two.
> If there is a LI battery to retain information that may be long gone.
> Replacing that would give you a fatser start.
> Had to do this on some Odetics receivers.
> Good luck
> Paul.
>
> On Wed, May 23, 2018 at 3:26 PM, Bob kb8tq <kb...@n1k.org> wrote:
>
> > Hi
> >
> > My guess would be that they are not in a mode that allows them to lock.
> > Some
> > GPSDO’s require a “start” command. Others hold off locking until a site
> > survey
> > is complete ( or they have verified the last survey is correct ).
> >
> > Bob
> >
> > > On May 23, 2018, at 1:31 PM, Richard Solomon <w1...@outlook.com>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > I have had two of these sitting on the shelf for years. Today I decided
> > to see if they work.
> > >
> > > It's a slow week !!
> > >
> > >
> > > I hooked them up to my external GPS Antenna through my Symmetricon
> > Splitter and
> > >
> > > looked at the 10 MHz output on my HP 5334B (reference input derived
> from
> > a Trimble
> > >
> > > T-Bolt).
> > >
> > >
> > > They both show a number of Satellites, but one reads 4.7 Hz low while
> > the other reads
> > >
> > > 1.3 Hz low. I expected better.
> > >
> > >
> > > Any thoughts on what would cause such a large deviation from 10 Mhz ?
> > >
> > >
> > > Thanks for any replies,
> > >
> > >
> > > 73, Dick, W1KSZ
> > >
> > >
> > > Sent from Outlook<http://aka.ms/weboutlook>
> > > ___
> > > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> > > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/
> > mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> > > and follow the instructions there.
> >
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> > mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> > and follow the instructions there.
> >
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Re: [time-nuts] TrueTime XL-AK Issues

[paul swed]

Wow
They actually came up. A site survey can take some 20 hours.
There should be some LED indicator that says the status is locking.
Let them run a day or two.
If there is a LI battery to retain information that may be long gone.
Replacing that would give you a fatser start.
Had to do this on some Odetics receivers.
Good luck
Paul.

On Wed, May 23, 2018 at 3:26 PM, Bob kb8tq <kb...@n1k.org> wrote:

> Hi
>
> My guess would be that they are not in a mode that allows them to lock.
> Some
> GPSDO’s require a “start” command. Others hold off locking until a site
> survey
> is complete ( or they have verified the last survey is correct ).
>
> Bob
>
> > On May 23, 2018, at 1:31 PM, Richard Solomon <w1...@outlook.com> wrote:
> >
> > I have had two of these sitting on the shelf for years. Today I decided
> to see if they work.
> >
> > It's a slow week !!
> >
> >
> > I hooked them up to my external GPS Antenna through my Symmetricon
> Splitter and
> >
> > looked at the 10 MHz output on my HP 5334B (reference input derived from
> a Trimble
> >
> > T-Bolt).
> >
> >
> > They both show a number of Satellites, but one reads 4.7 Hz low while
> the other reads
> >
> > 1.3 Hz low. I expected better.
> >
> >
> > Any thoughts on what would cause such a large deviation from 10 Mhz ?
> >
> >
> > Thanks for any replies,
> >
> >
> > 73, Dick, W1KSZ
> >
> >
> > Sent from Outlook<http://aka.ms/weboutlook>
> > ___
> > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/
> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> > and follow the instructions there.
>
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Re: [time-nuts] Cesium sold

[paul swed]

Doug I sent seperate email on the R references early yesterday.
Not sure you got those and I am intereseted.
paulsw...@gmail.com
Regards

On Sat, May 19, 2018 at 11:32 PM, Doug Millar via time-nuts <
time-nuts@febo.com> wrote:

> Hi, Thanks for all the responses. The unit has been spoken and paid for.
> Doug K6JEY
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Re: [time-nuts] Cesium Clock Avialable

[paul swed]

Bob
Did go looking on the internet.
I had quite a laugh because indeed our friends at Amazon and Ebay will
happily sell you a 1 gram vile of Cesium. $226.
By the way thats free shipping. Chuckle.
No mention of shipping issues.
Letting this part of the thread drop.
Someone gets a nice reference if it works.
Regards
Paul

On Sat, May 19, 2018 at 3:49 PM, paul swed <paulsw...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Bob
> I believe that the Cesium 133 as I recall actually isn't.
> There was a document from HP. But its been a long time.
> I will bet folks ship the 5061s all the time without a thought either way.
> Just saying. Neither right or wrong.
>
> Regards
> Paul
>
> On Sat, May 19, 2018 at 2:18 PM, Bob kb8tq <kb...@n1k.org> wrote:
>
>> Hi
>>
>> Ok …. errr …. shipping …. about that.
>>
>> Cs is classified rightly as a hazardous substance. Transporting and
>> shipping
>> hazardous stuff is indeed regulated (as it should be). For various silly
>> reasons
>> the minute amount of Cs inside a virtually indestructible container in a
>> Cs
>> standard  falls into the hazardous category.
>>
>> So, to properly ship a Cs standard, you need to be properly trained and
>> certified
>> as a Hazmat shipper. You then need to register that training certificate
>> with your
>> favorite shipper and verify that they accept the certificate. They then
>> come out
>> and check your paperwork system to be sure it’s up to the proper
>> standards.
>> Once all that is accomplished you can originate a shipment of a Cs
>> standard.
>> Yes, there are a couple of fees involved in all that.
>>
>> If all that sounds trivial or easy …. it’s not. Figure on a coupe of
>> months to get
>> it all done. Once you do get it all done you can put a nice big Hazmat
>> label on
>> the package and ship it out ( with of course an added charge for handling
>> the rest of the process ). If you do it once you at least will know what
>> is needed
>> for the annual renewal of certification and re-inspection process. ( and
>> the fees
>> involved ….)
>>
>> So ….e …. yes. The bottom line is that even if a railroad locomotive
>> hits
>> the UPS truck, you aren’t going to get Cs all over the place. The risk of
>> actually
>> hurting anybody with Cs is essentially zero. This whole shipping process
>> is
>> probably not as risky as crossing the street when the “don’t walk” sign
>> is flashing.
>>
>> Be aware though that if you are shipping one and label it as a Cs
>> standard, ( without
>> all the proper Hazmat shipping certifications )  you may get into all
>> sorts of nonsense.
>> If somebody spots it ( and that has happened ) your package is not going
>> to get delivered.
>> If it is in transit when noticed ( = they already accepted it) It
>> probably is not going to get
>> returned to you. I’d bet you at least get a bill for disposing of it ….
>>
>> Equally if you ship one and don’t do it properly there is a slight chance
>> of it getting
>> noticed ( think in terms of a damaged box that gets attended to ) …. at
>> that point
>> all sorts of nasty legal sorts of things could happen.
>>
>> Just another of life’s little pieces of excitement ….
>>
>> Bob
>>
>> > On May 19, 2018, at 1:36 PM, paul swed <paulsw...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > Bobs
>> > Comments are on target.
>> > The Cesium can last a long time on the shelf. But (Always a but) other
>> > stuff in the tube tends to pollute the tube.
>> > This causes the high current when you start the system that may or may
>> not
>> > clear up.Some great time-nuts threads on the subject and how to attempt
>> to
>> > recover the tube.
>> >
>> > In my experience after the tubes up and running and in a locked state.
>> The
>> > beam current is relative. About 20-40 is good.
>> > The issue is there are some settings that can totally fake this reading
>> out
>> > like the meter sensitivity. As the current goes down you see more of the
>> > noise floor of the system that deteriorates the quality. Funny fact
>> > Frankenstein 5060/61 mix has barely originally showed .5 on the beam
>> > current. Yet still locks. Today beam current is 0 and its still locks.
>> The
>> > tube was deemed dead when it was given to me. In comparing it to another
>> > much later 5061 it is indeed locked nicely.
>> >
>> > The option 004 tubes run hot and consume Cs more rapidly. Dead 004 tubes
>> >

Re: [time-nuts] Cesium Clock Avialable

[paul swed]

Bob
I believe that the Cesium 133 as I recall actually isn't.
There was a document from HP. But its been a long time.
I will bet folks ship the 5061s all the time without a thought either way.
Just saying. Neither right or wrong.

Regards
Paul

On Sat, May 19, 2018 at 2:18 PM, Bob kb8tq <kb...@n1k.org> wrote:

> Hi
>
> Ok …. errr …. shipping …. about that.
>
> Cs is classified rightly as a hazardous substance. Transporting and
> shipping
> hazardous stuff is indeed regulated (as it should be). For various silly
> reasons
> the minute amount of Cs inside a virtually indestructible container in a
> Cs
> standard  falls into the hazardous category.
>
> So, to properly ship a Cs standard, you need to be properly trained and
> certified
> as a Hazmat shipper. You then need to register that training certificate
> with your
> favorite shipper and verify that they accept the certificate. They then
> come out
> and check your paperwork system to be sure it’s up to the proper
> standards.
> Once all that is accomplished you can originate a shipment of a Cs
> standard.
> Yes, there are a couple of fees involved in all that.
>
> If all that sounds trivial or easy …. it’s not. Figure on a coupe of
> months to get
> it all done. Once you do get it all done you can put a nice big Hazmat
> label on
> the package and ship it out ( with of course an added charge for handling
> the rest of the process ). If you do it once you at least will know what
> is needed
> for the annual renewal of certification and re-inspection process. ( and
> the fees
> involved ….)
>
> So ….e …. yes. The bottom line is that even if a railroad locomotive
> hits
> the UPS truck, you aren’t going to get Cs all over the place. The risk of
> actually
> hurting anybody with Cs is essentially zero. This whole shipping process
> is
> probably not as risky as crossing the street when the “don’t walk” sign is
> flashing.
>
> Be aware though that if you are shipping one and label it as a Cs
> standard, ( without
> all the proper Hazmat shipping certifications )  you may get into all
> sorts of nonsense.
> If somebody spots it ( and that has happened ) your package is not going
> to get delivered.
> If it is in transit when noticed ( = they already accepted it) It probably
> is not going to get
> returned to you. I’d bet you at least get a bill for disposing of it ….
>
> Equally if you ship one and don’t do it properly there is a slight chance
> of it getting
> noticed ( think in terms of a damaged box that gets attended to ) …. at
> that point
> all sorts of nasty legal sorts of things could happen.
>
> Just another of life’s little pieces of excitement ….
>
> Bob
>
> > On May 19, 2018, at 1:36 PM, paul swed <paulsw...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Bobs
> > Comments are on target.
> > The Cesium can last a long time on the shelf. But (Always a but) other
> > stuff in the tube tends to pollute the tube.
> > This causes the high current when you start the system that may or may
> not
> > clear up.Some great time-nuts threads on the subject and how to attempt
> to
> > recover the tube.
> >
> > In my experience after the tubes up and running and in a locked state.
> The
> > beam current is relative. About 20-40 is good.
> > The issue is there are some settings that can totally fake this reading
> out
> > like the meter sensitivity. As the current goes down you see more of the
> > noise floor of the system that deteriorates the quality. Funny fact
> > Frankenstein 5060/61 mix has barely originally showed .5 on the beam
> > current. Yet still locks. Today beam current is 0 and its still locks.
> The
> > tube was deemed dead when it was given to me. In comparing it to another
> > much later 5061 it is indeed locked nicely.
> >
> > The option 004 tubes run hot and consume Cs more rapidly. Dead 004 tubes
> > are pretty much dead.
> >
> > As I recall in the manual there is a way to directly read the true beam
> > current (If you actually have any) right off the tube.
> > So some lucky sole in this tread will finally have a real ticking clock.
> > Congrats and have fun. I think the darn clocks go for as much as Doug is
> > asking. Shipping was about $130 or so from Az to Ma about a year ago
> when I
> > picked up my 2nd 5061.
> > I think this is a bit cheap as it came from a company that most likely
> gets
> > a discount we don't.
> >
> > Regards
> > Paul
> > WB8TSL
> >
> >
> > On Sat, May 19, 2018 at 1:02 PM, Bob kb8tq <kb...@n1k.org> wrote:
> >
> >> Hi
> >>
> >>
> >>
&

Re: [time-nuts] Cesium Clock Avialable

[paul swed]

Bobs
Comments are on target.
The Cesium can last a long time on the shelf. But (Always a but) other
stuff in the tube tends to pollute the tube.
This causes the high current when you start the system that may or may not
clear up.Some great time-nuts threads on the subject and how to attempt to
recover the tube.

In my experience after the tubes up and running and in a locked state. The
beam current is relative. About 20-40 is good.
The issue is there are some settings that can totally fake this reading out
like the meter sensitivity. As the current goes down you see more of the
noise floor of the system that deteriorates the quality. Funny fact
Frankenstein 5060/61 mix has barely originally showed .5 on the beam
current. Yet still locks. Today beam current is 0 and its still locks. The
tube was deemed dead when it was given to me. In comparing it to another
much later 5061 it is indeed locked nicely.

The option 004 tubes run hot and consume Cs more rapidly. Dead 004 tubes
are pretty much dead.

As I recall in the manual there is a way to directly read the true beam
current (If you actually have any) right off the tube.
So some lucky sole in this tread will finally have a real ticking clock.
Congrats and have fun. I think the darn clocks go for as much as Doug is
asking. Shipping was about $130 or so from Az to Ma about a year ago when I
picked up my 2nd 5061.
I think this is a bit cheap as it came from a company that most likely gets
a discount we don't.

Regards
Paul
WB8TSL


On Sat, May 19, 2018 at 1:02 PM, Bob kb8tq <kb...@n1k.org> wrote:

> Hi
>
>
>
> > On May 19, 2018, at 11:22 AM, Dana Whitlow <k8yumdoo...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > Don't Cesium clocks have a beam current integrator of sorts so that it's
> > possible
> > to pretty accurately assess the remaining life of the tube?  If not, I'm
> > terribly
>
> Simple answer - no. The ones we are playing with came out *long* before
> you could do
> anything like that in a practical way. Even today I know of no atomic
> standard made by
> anybody that does something like that.
>
>
> > surprised and disappointed.
> >
> > Also, beginning with a new tube, roughly how long can one be run until it
> > reaches exhaustion?  Are we speaking months, years, decades, or what?
>
>
> Rated life on a high performance tube is in the 5 to 7 year range. I have
> indeed proven that
> to be correct with a couple of tubes run on a 24/7/365 basis. A “standard
> grade” tube should
> run for 2 or 3 times that long. A lot depends on exactly which model tube
> from what era and
> who made the specific tube.
>
> Tubes are not the only thing that dies in a Cs standard. The older ones (
> = what we play with)
> are mostly full of leaded parts described in manuals and schematics. They
> may not all be made
> anymore, but various substitutes are out there. Also, chassis for Cs
> standards with dead
> tubes are pretty common. It’s the tubes we are most likely to run out of ….
>
> Of course you *can* get a nice new tube from the factory. Last time I did
> that the bill was
> about $38,000. That included them putting it in.
>
> Bob
>
> >
> > Dana
> >
> >
> > On Sat, May 19, 2018 at 10:01 AM, Bob kb8tq <kb...@n1k.org> wrote:
> >
> >> Hi
> >>
> >> Unfortunately there really is no way to tell how much Cs is left in the
> >> tube. You can
> >> look at beam current and make a guess. All that really will tell you is
> >> that the fuel
> >> gauge is on empty or at least just off of empty.
> >>
> >> Bob
> >>
> >>> On May 19, 2018, at 2:30 AM, Paul Bicknell <p...@bicknells.f2s.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Hi Doug
> >>>
> >>> Is it possible to test its operation and
> >>> can the time left on the cesium be calculated   Regards Paul
> >>>
> >>> -Original Message-
> >>> From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Doug
> >> Millar
> >>> via time-nuts
> >>> Sent: 19 May 2018 05:04
> >>> To: time-nuts@febo.com
> >>> Subject: [time-nuts] Cesium Clock Avialable
> >>>
> >>> Hi, I am willing to part with my HP 5061A cesium standard and manual.
> The
> >>> unit was rebuilt and functioning some years ago and not used since
> then.
> >>> There is usable cesium in the tube and the unit worked. I have not
> >> tested it
> >>> recently. It has a Patek-Philippe analogue clock in the front. The unit
> >> is
> >>> in great physical condition.  Asking $600 plus shipping from Long
> Beach,
> &g

[time-nuts] Resistance components interested.

[paul swed]

Apologies to everyone as this part of Doug's offer isn't time nuts.
Doug I am interested in the R's
Please contact me directly
paulsw...@gmail.com
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Re: [time-nuts] Cesium Clock Avialable

[Paul Bicknell]

Hi Doug 

Is it possible to test its operation and 
can the time left on the cesium be calculated   Regards Paul 

-Original Message-
From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Doug Millar
via time-nuts
Sent: 19 May 2018 05:04
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: [time-nuts] Cesium Clock Avialable

Hi, I am willing to part with my HP 5061A cesium standard and manual. The
unit was rebuilt and functioning some years ago and not used since then.
There is usable cesium in the tube and the unit worked. I have not tested it
recently. It has a Patek-Philippe analogue clock in the front. The unit is
in great physical condition.  Asking $600 plus shipping from Long Beach, CA.
90806
I also have an ESI 242D resistance calibrator and a Julie primary resistance
standard in an oven. Let me know if you are interested. Very reasonable. 
 Thanks, Doug K6JEY
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Re: [time-nuts] Commercially available empty ovens for oscillator testing?

[paul swed]

Julien
Yes you could stabilize the temperature at some level.
But your really adding complexity that will tend to interact.
You have the natural TCXO behavior and then the oven behavior. Hard to say
how it all will behave.

But I suspect your suggesting warming the TCXO to something in its best
stability range. (Center)
Not the typical oven range. It would indeed help. But then even putting the
TCXO in a insulated box would also.
Depends on what you are trying to get to.

I use a GPSDO with a TCXO from Jackson lab and simply insulated it.
It was appropriate for instant on testing and radio references without
wasting power all day long.
If I am more serious I flip to an external GPDO through the same
distribution system after its warmed up.
Typically a TBolt or Z380.

Hope that helps.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL




On Sat, May 12, 2018 at 12:55 PM, Julien Goodwin <time-n...@studio442.com.au
> wrote:

> Does anyone know if there's anyone who sells essentially just the oven &
> casing for an OCXO on its own?
>
> I have a project for which I'm currently using a VCTCXO, but I'm
> wondering if enclosing a plain VCXO, plus the control DAC & voltage
> reference in a single small oven would end up more stable, and possibly
> not even much more expensive.
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Re: [time-nuts] Anybody have suggestions for time related sciencefairprojects?

[Paul Bicknell]

Hi how about frequency difference /temperature of a oved'ed Xtal oscillator 

-Original Message-
From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Bill
Hawkins
Sent: 11 May 2018 06:40
To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement'
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Anybody have suggestions for time related
sciencefairprojects?

Well, how about the frequency drift between a pendulum, a tuning fork,
and a crystal.
Atomic standards could be added depending on availability.

Bill Hawkins


-Original Message-
From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Hal
Murray
Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2018 11:56 PM
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Cc: Hal Murray
Subject: [time-nuts] Anybody have suggestions for time related science
fairprojects?


A few months ago, I was a judge for the county level middle school
science fair.  (I'm not very good at what they wanted, but that's a
different
problem.)

What sort of interesting time related experiments can a middle school
geek do?

Borrowing serious gear may not be off scale as long as a youngster can
run it.

-

An alternat meaning to the "nut" part of time-nuts:  ")
  https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/schools-removing-analog-clocks/


--
These are my opinions.  I hate spam.



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[time-nuts] how long dues this rubidium standard last for

[Paul Bicknell]

Hi all 
as I am new to time nuts could someone please help with e following 

questions 

I have a Racal 9475 and a comment was it is a good entry level rubidium
That is not working yet 
how long dues the rubidium standard last for and how much to replace? 

I assume rubidium & cesium's are left on 24/7
?

I think I would like a HP 5065 
so how long dues this rubidium standard last for
?
and how much to replace
?


regarding the HP 5065 how much am I going to have to pay for one
?

I want to also do the Corby Dawson optical window modification 
so How much is the new optical window
?

I realise the are a lot of questions but any answers would be welcome 

Regards Paul B

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Re: [time-nuts] Racal 9475 Rubidium

[Paul Bicknell]

Hi Dan 
Regarding a photographs of the back of your 9475 as my unit dues not have a
heat sing and it is serial number  B002 so your offer would be useful

Regards Paul B

-Original Message-
From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Dan Rae
Sent: 03 May 2018 16:38
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Racal 9475 Rubidium

On 5/3/2018 7:38 AM, Adrian Godwin wrote:
> What sort of heatsink does it need ? Do you need the original part or
would
> a lightly-machined generic module do ?
>
At the time, at least in the UK, it was a very common extrusion, often 
used for power supplies etc., and in fact I see two on the back of big 
Astron supplies under my bench.  I had some in my "junk box" that even 
had the mounting holes in the correct places.   If anyone needs it I can 
take photographs of the back of my 9475 with the heatsink fitted.

Dan
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[time-nuts] Adret 4100 compared to the Tracor 527

[Paul Bicknell]

 

Hi all 

Thank you for the information relating to the Racal 9475 Rubidium

I will start work on it at the week end 

 

Can any one come back with the advantages / disadvantages of the 

Adret 4100 compared to the Tracor 527 frequency difference multiplier  

also how much they normally cost

 

Regards Paul B

 

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[time-nuts] Racal 9475 Rubidium

[Paul Bicknell]

Hi all new member hear could any of you help with the following information

 

As I have just bought a Racal 9475 Rubidium and it has problems

 

Is there any stock faults ?

What is the life of the rubidium standard?

 

Regards Paul 

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Re: [time-nuts] Austron 2100 LORAN C manual I have a pdf!

[paul swed]

John
Glad it could help.
Its a shame we don't have some transmitters to work with.
They do turn on occasionally but it seems fewer and fewer these days.
Though lightsquared satellite will be decided on within a month if thats
our alternate PNT source over eLoran.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL

On Thu, Apr 26, 2018 at 8:20 PM, John C. Westmoreland, P.E. <
j...@westmorelandengineering.com> wrote:

> Hello Paul,
>
> I wanted to say 'Thanks' - I downloaded that recently.
>
> I'm obviously interested in any Austron schematics; manuals; references;
> datasheets... .
>
> 73's,
> John
> AJ6BC
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 30, 2015 at 9:46 AM, paul swed <paulsw...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > In looking at the threads and putting away the Austron catalog I
> realized I
> > have a 2100 pdf with schematics.
> > Its 8.9 MB so will send it to the Diddiers KO4BB site tonight.
> > Regards
> > Paul
> > WB8TSL
> > ___
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Re: [time-nuts] 4046 replacement

[REEVES Paul]

Hi Donald,

I've just had this problem - the 'signal' input (p14) to the phase detectors is 
a 'bodge' linear amplifier built around standard CMOS stages and it doesn’t 
work right. A resistor around a CMOS inverter was a good old recipe to get a 
'linear' amplifier stage but this design appears to have a voltage variable 
resistor of sorts and it gives very strange results. It is fine if used as a 
CMOS level i/p stage but its use as an  ac coupled low level i/p is problematic 
and may need additional loading. Manufacturer's documentation is scarce and I 
have only seen one reference to the internal design of this stage. There's 
quite a bit about it in several places on the net.

Regards,
Paul   Reeves  G8GJA

-Original Message-
From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of donald collie
Sent: 18 April 2018 10:40
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 4046 replacement

Thankyou Attila. I remember reading a book on PLL theory, recently,writen by a 
very knowledgable fellow, but I didn`t think to make a copy of his critique of 
the 4046. I recall that the nub of it was that the 4046 isn`t suitable for some 
applications because of a design flaw. Perhaps somebody in this group could 
explain further.
Thankyou Bill, for the datasheet on the 74HCT9046, and your comments 
Cheers!..Don
jnr ZL4GX

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On Wed, Apr 18, 2018 at 8:28 PM, wb6bnq <wb6...@cox.net> wrote:

> Hi Donald,
>
> You could consider the NXP 74HCT9046A as a replacement.  It is an 
> improved version of 4046.  However, you do need to study the spec 
> sheet as it is a bit different, but in a good way.
>
> I have included an attached PDF of the spec sheet, if it makes through 
> the mail list server.
>
> BillWB6BNQ
>
>
> donald collie wrote:
>
> I have 4  frequency synthesiser projects, each using HEF4046BCN`s, but 
> have
>> recently read that this CMOS IC has a design flaw. What would be a 
>> better chip to retrofit? I`m thinking perhaps a HEF74HC4046AN [that`s 
>> if it doesn`t have the same bug], or a 74HC7046AN - which is similar. 
>> Both these chips are more-or-less pin compatable TIA for any 
>> advice!.
>> ..Don
>>
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>>
>
>
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Re: [time-nuts] WWVB information

[paul swed]

Hal when I was building de-psk-ers and such I have to say I did not see the
imbalance. It looked pretty solid in timing.
The fact that at each minute for the first number of seconds the phase is
actually fixed just before the preamble is useful.
It clears out any possible buildup if it existed.
Also unless I used a number of tricks like de-psk-rs and fixed carrier
insertion none of my spectracoms. True Times would decode time. I am east
cost US so quite far away from wwvb. I believe simple tricks by others far
closer actually do work.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL

On Fri, Apr 13, 2018 at 5:26 PM, Hal Murray <hmur...@megapathdsl.net> wrote:

> The month recently changed from 3 to 4.  A while ago, the bottom digit of
> the
> year changed from 8 to 7.  I think the out-of-phase time is shorter for a
> 0
> than for a 1.  Would a few more 0 bits be enough to push it into sync?
>
> Is there "goodness" parameter that you can monitor?  It might be
> interesting
> to see if that correlates with day, hour, minute encoding?
>
>
> --
> These are my opinions.  I hate spam.
>
>
>
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Re: [time-nuts] Weird Stuff Warehouse shutting down

[paul swed]

Really appreciate the video of Apex. I don't think words describe it very
well.
But everything is there and whats more interesting is if you are looking
for something they do have a pretty good idea of the location. Especially
if it has any value like new BNC connectors.
The time I went there I was dressed for business. Wrong attire. But I did
see the nooks and cranny's mentioned.
Never ripped my shirt and I did use the step ladders that get you to the
top rows.
But what seems to happen is your eyeballs simply get overloaded. Most gear
is on its side so that makes it harder to read.
Then the fact that its going to be tough to ship really puts a kink in the
digging.
No matter a really great video of the place.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL

On Sun, Apr 8, 2018 at 11:37 AM, Azelio Boriani <azelio.bori...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> For those of us (like me) that can travel to the US less than once in
> a lifetime, there is an EEVblog #124 - A Tour of Apex Electronics:
>
> <https://youtu.be/XesfMfS5usY>
>
>
> On Sun, Apr 8, 2018 at 2:25 AM, Alexander Pummer <alex...@ieee.org> wrote:
> > other surplus:
> > https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1=lcl=
> qGDJWrDzBuXm5gKB3bmQDw=electronic+surplus+bay+area+
> ca=electronic+surplus+bay+area+ca_l=psy-ab.12...
> 16142.25972.0.28698.14.12.2.0.0.0.228.1752.0j11j1.12.00.
> ..1c.1.64.psy-ab..0.0.00.qHdPqOyu4I8#rlfi=hd:;si:;mv:!
> 1m3!1d406993.57669817575!2d-122.07998499435485!3d37.
> 551234775823595!3m2!1i636!2i386!4f13.1
> >
> > 73
> >
> > KJ6UHN
> >
> > Alex
> >
> >
> > On 4/7/2018 4:03 PM, paul swed wrote:
> >>
> >> Like most of you I also visited these places and have dragged back and
> >> shipped lots of "Weird stuff". Even smaller parts through airport
> >> security.
> >> The oddest thing was 3/4" cable TV hardline connectors and there was no
> >> issue at all.
> >> It always made it fun to go on a business trip to the area and always
> slip
> >> a bit of time into visit the places.
> >> There may still be two left at this point. Electronic Surplus Sales or
> ESS
> >> and do not recall the name of the other. But do know its location be
> >> heart.
> >> I can say that in the 70s they really had an effect on my overall
> career.
> >> Piles of computer stuff and much else. Buy it by the pound. Think it was
> >> Mikes surplus by the Oakland airport. Long gone and one up in Berkley.
> >>
> >> There is one crazy place down in northern LA. Some what hard to get to
> but
> >> my god the stuff. Overwhelming. They dicker also. Nothing like a tough
> >> bargain was there 3 years ago.
> >>
> >>
> >> On Sat, Apr 7, 2018 at 10:36 AM, Bob kb8tq <kb...@n1k.org> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hi
> >>>
> >>> Over the years, this has been the fate of a *lot* of surplus / goodie
> >>> outfits. They have
> >>> a “deal” on some property and that runs out. Sometimes it’s a sale with
> >>> the neighborhood
> >>> improving. Other times it’s the roof needing repairs and nobody sees
> the
> >>> need to do them
> >>> until it is way to late ….
> >>>
> >>> Bob
> >>>
> >>>> On Apr 6, 2018, at 11:24 PM, Bruce Lane <kyr...@bluefeathertech.com>
> >>>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Fellow techies,
> >>>>
> >>>>I'm sorry to report we're losing another surplus place. Weird
> >>>> Stuff
> >>>> Warehouse, in Sunnyvale, CA, is closing its doors as of Monday,
> >>>> 9-Apr-18.
> >>>>
> >>>>It seems we have Google to blame. Here's Weird Stuff's final
> >>>> newsletter, verbatim.
> >>>>
> >>>> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
> >>>>
> >>>> April 6, 2018
> >>>>
> >>>> To Weirdstuff Customers,
> >>>>
> >>>> Sadly, after 32 years in business, Weirdstuff Warehouse will be
> closing
> >>>> its doors as of April 9, 2018. If you have been following the real
> >>>> estate news for Sunnyvale you know that Google purchased a large
> amount
> >>>> of real estate in the area including the building we have been leasing
> >>>> for the past 22 years. We have been asked to vacate the building as
> soon
> >>>> as possible, and in order to accomplish that task we are selling our
> >>>> inventory and many of our a

Re: [time-nuts] Weird Stuff WareHouse shutting down

[paul swed]

Thanks
It has to have been Apex that I visited. The back areas were a mix of open
sky and sort of sheds.
The air was typically pretty dry so the stuff held up well. There were
things I would have liked to have grabbed.
Could easily see a day digging around.
Inside its stacked to the 20 ft ceilings and they have ladders like you see
in home depot to get to the top.
There was a genrad admittance bridge on the top shelf. In good condition
and in the nice wood box.
I did not go to C as I simply ran out of time. Pretty good?
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL

On Sun, Apr 8, 2018 at 12:18 AM, Jeff Woolsey <j...@jlw.com> wrote:

> Geez.  The Agilent IEEE-1588 units I mentioned a month or two ago were
> the last things I bought there.
>
>
> > There is one crazy place down in northern LA. Some what hard to get to
> but
> > my god the stuff. Overwhelming. They dicker also. Nothing like a tough
> > bargain was there 3 years ago.
>
> I happen to have returned from a family spring break in LA/SD just
> today.  Yesterday I visted C surplus in Duarte and picked up a couple
> items, one was way-underpriced.  This morning I was at APEX Electronics
> in Sun Valley.  Overwhelming is right.  Being where they are in LA they
> have a fair amount of prop business.   Imagine the backroom at
> WeirdStuff. Now imagine ther same thing, only open to the sky, out
> back.  I inquired about a couple items near the front, but didn't have
> room in the car (or my wallet) for them.  The Yelp reviews are accurate.
>
> --
> Jeff Woolsey {{woolsey,jlw}@jlw,first.last@{gmail,jlw}}.com
> Nature abhors straight antennas, clean lenses, and empty storage
> "Delete! Delete! OK!" -Dr. Bronner on disk space management
> Card-sorting, Joel.  -Crow on solitaire
>
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Re: [time-nuts] Weird Stuff Warehouse shutting down

[paul swed]

Like most of you I also visited these places and have dragged back and
shipped lots of "Weird stuff". Even smaller parts through airport security.
The oddest thing was 3/4" cable TV hardline connectors and there was no
issue at all.
It always made it fun to go on a business trip to the area and always slip
a bit of time into visit the places.
There may still be two left at this point. Electronic Surplus Sales or ESS
and do not recall the name of the other. But do know its location be heart.
I can say that in the 70s they really had an effect on my overall career.
Piles of computer stuff and much else. Buy it by the pound. Think it was
Mikes surplus by the Oakland airport. Long gone and one up in Berkley.

There is one crazy place down in northern LA. Some what hard to get to but
my god the stuff. Overwhelming. They dicker also. Nothing like a tough
bargain was there 3 years ago.


On Sat, Apr 7, 2018 at 10:36 AM, Bob kb8tq  wrote:

> Hi
>
> Over the years, this has been the fate of a *lot* of surplus / goodie
> outfits. They have
> a “deal” on some property and that runs out. Sometimes it’s a sale with
> the neighborhood
> improving. Other times it’s the roof needing repairs and nobody sees the
> need to do them
> until it is way to late ….
>
> Bob
>
> > On Apr 6, 2018, at 11:24 PM, Bruce Lane 
> wrote:
> >
> > Fellow techies,
> >
> >   I'm sorry to report we're losing another surplus place. Weird Stuff
> > Warehouse, in Sunnyvale, CA, is closing its doors as of Monday, 9-Apr-18.
> >
> >   It seems we have Google to blame. Here's Weird Stuff's final
> > newsletter, verbatim.
> >
> > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
> >
> > April 6, 2018
> >
> > To Weirdstuff Customers,
> >
> > Sadly, after 32 years in business, Weirdstuff Warehouse will be closing
> > its doors as of April 9, 2018. If you have been following the real
> > estate news for Sunnyvale you know that Google purchased a large amount
> > of real estate in the area including the building we have been leasing
> > for the past 22 years. We have been asked to vacate the building as soon
> > as possible, and in order to accomplish that task we are selling our
> > inventory and many of our assets to Outback Equipment of Morgan Hill.
> > The transfer of inventory and assets will take place on April 9, 2018;
> > at that time Weirdstuff Warehouse will cease to do business.
> >
> > Even though Weirdstuff is closing we will retain ownership of the
> > Corporation, trademark, and domain names. We hope to handle these
> > entities and wind down the corporation before year end.
> >
> > Many of you have been loyal customers for many years, and we have
> > enjoyed working with you. We thank you for your loyalty and business.
> >
> > For more information, check out our website after Monday, April 9, 2018.
> >
> > WeirdStuff Warehouse
> > 384 W. Caribbean Dr.
> > Sunnyvale, CA 94089
> > (408) 743-5650
> > --
> >
> >   Heh... So much for Google's favorite "Don't Be Evil" motto
> >
> > ---
> > Bruce Lane, ARS KC7GR
> > http://www.bluefeathertech.com
> > kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech dot com
> > "Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati" (Red Green)
> > ___
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> > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/
> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> > and follow the instructions there.
>
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Re: [time-nuts] new longwave time service planned in India

[paul swed]

Pieter
That is quite a surprise that a country is setting up a long wave system
these days. They still have to raise the money but it seems like a
semi-private arrangement. Even more interesting is they suggest 3
locations. Something to try to find in the VLF bands some day in the future.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL

On Tue, Apr 3, 2018 at 5:16 PM, Pieter-Tjerk de Boer <p.t.deb...@utwente.nl>
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Apparently India plans to build two longwave transmitters for a national
> time signal service:
> http://www.thehindu.com/todays-paper/tp-national/coming-huge-towers-to-
> publicise-right-time/article23377284.ece
>
> No technical details such as frequency and modulation are given, nor
> whether
> the carrier will also serve as a reference frequency.
>
> They do mention involvement of the German EFR company, who operate three
> transmitters between 129 and 139 kHz for remotely controlling equipment
> and broadcasting time, using 200 baud FSK. One might speculate similar
> signals will be used for the new India service.
>
> Regards,
>   Pieter-Tjerk (PA3FWM)
>
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Re: [time-nuts] TV Signals as a frequency reference

[paul swed]

Hello to the group.
Been staying clear of the thread as many good comments.
Several things happened that made the color burst signal useless for most
people.
Yes the networks had Cesium's about 3 of them at CBS and the network feed
carried that quality.
but about 1980 a device called a frame synchronizer became popular. $25,000
each. This essentially locked the video to the local house reference.
Generally a free running ovenized crystal. At that point what was sent over
the air had no relationship to the network reference. The benefit of this
device is it allowed glitch-less switching between network and local feeds.
(Staying clear of a gen-lock discussion and terrestrial network microwave
links.)
It was the CBS network color burst that I tinkered with in 1990 to
ultimately see the satellite doppler shift on the CBS signal and other
effects.
Bad news it sort started me on the time-nuttery path and drugs like HP 5360
counters interfaced to computers.
Today the modern mpeg/atsc has none of these qualities and really doesn't
need it. Frame buffers exist in every TV. (Amazing) Originally I thought
ATSC might have value.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL

On Fri, Mar 30, 2018 at 8:52 PM, Bob kb8tq <kb...@n1k.org> wrote:

> Hi
>
>
> > On Mar 30, 2018, at 6:13 PM, Hal Murray <hmur...@megapathdsl.net> wrote:
> >
> >
> > fgr...@otiengineering.com said:
> >>  Now that analog TV has gone away, so
> >>  have these signals.
> >
> > What do the local TV stations use for a frequency reference?
>
> Anything from a crystal oscillator to a Cs standard. It’s very much a
> “that depends”
> sort of thing. If Crazy Bob is the chief engineer it might be a hydrogen
> maser ….
>
> >
> > Are there low cost receivers that also produce a good reference
> frequency?
>
> As noted earlier, color burst references were a big deal a long time ago.
> Depending
> on how they do what they do it might still be a good bet. The big risk is
> that it could
> be a good bet “most of the time”.
>
> Bob
>
>
> >
> >
> > --
> > These are my opinions.  I hate spam.
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/
> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> > and follow the instructions there.
>
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Re: [time-nuts] Introduction, new list member, Ms Tisha Hayes, AA4HA

[paul swed]

Tisha
Welcome to the group.
The 3586s are very nice I have more then a few.
That said get the nicad battery out of the system ASAP.
The charging circuit is very poor and overcharges them. (Pretty odd for HP)
When they leak they destroy the power supply regulator board.
It is a mess to clean up and the to repair traces.
The stuff eats through the board and causes all sorts of very bad behaviors
because the of trace to trace to leaks.
Regards
Paul.
WB8TSL

On Thu, Mar 29, 2018 at 11:26 AM, Jerry Hancock <je...@hanler.com> wrote:

> Yep, 3586B put me in the top list two times I used it along with a
> calibrated SpectrumLab + PC combo.  I’d like to use my IC-7610 this time,
> have to figure all that out I guess as the April test rapidly approaches
> UTC time I remember now.
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Jerry
>
>
> > On Mar 29, 2018, at 5:21 AM, John Ackermann N8UR <j...@febo.com> wrote:
> >
> > The impedance mismatch with the A or B models is't a real issue unless
> you're doing precise amplitude measurements.  Lots of folks use them for
> FMT work without issues. There are adapters available or buildable to deal
> with the odd Telco connectors.
> >
> > John
> >
> > On Mar 29, 2018, 3:04 AM, at 3:04 AM, Ruslan Nabioullin <
> rnabioul...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On Wed, Mar 28, 2018 at 9:49 PM, Tisha Hayes <tisha.ha...@gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Perry and I would make our pilgrimages to the Huntsville Ham Fest and
> >>> usually I ended up buying equipment from him. One of the items he
> >> sent my
> >>> way was an HP 3586B that I am finally beginning to put to use.
> >>>
> >>
> >> Hmm that measuring receiver model (diffs can be found in:
> >> http://www.militaryradio.com/manuals/HP/hp3586-a-b-c.pdf ) was
> >> apparently
> >> intended for testing and troubleshooting purposes for those ancient
> >> FDM-based POTS trunk systems, not as a general-purpose HF measuring
> >> receiver (the HP 3586C)---I'm not sure how well they would function as
> >> HF
> >> receivers for WWV and CHU following impedance adaptation (b/c it
> >> doesn't
> >> have a 50 ohm unbalanced interface).
> >>
> >> In my case, I supply my time transfer volunteers with the following
> >> setup:
> >>
> >> vertical antenna -> TVSS -> preamplifier -> military rackmount
> >> preselector
> >> -> military/intelligence rackmount parametric demodulator or HP 3586C
> >> ->
> >> Xeon NTP server via soundcard
> >>
> >> with GNU/Linux daemon software which commands the preselector and
> >> demodulator via GPIB.
> >>
> >> Still, WWV/CHU-derived public NTP nodes are virtually nonexistent, and
> >> therefore there's a strong need for them, regardless of the
> >> sophistication
> >> of the receiver, due to the pitfalls of GNSS.
> >>
> >> -Ruslan
> >>
> >> --
> >> Ruslan Nabioullin
> >> Wittgenstein Laboratories
> >> rnabioul...@gmail.com
> >> (508) 523-8535
> >> 50 Louise Dr.
> >> Hollis, NH 03049
> >> ___
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> >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> >> and follow the instructions there.
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Re: [time-nuts] WWV/CHU

[paul swed]

I'll add to the conversation. CHU is easier to deal with because its not a
subcarrier as the 100 Hz WWV signal is.
Its FSK and bell 103 modem style.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL

On Thu, Mar 29, 2018 at 10:08 AM, jimlux <jim...@earthlink.net> wrote:

> On 3/29/18 3:49 AM, Attila Kinali wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 29 Mar 2018 03:12:24 -0700
>> Hal Murray <hmur...@megapathdsl.net> wrote:
>>
>> What do I need in in order to get time from WWV or CHU?
>>>
>>> Do I need a fancy receiver as a front end?  Do I have a chance with one
>>> of
>>> the low cost USB thumb drive size receivers?
>>>
>>> Is there an obvious software package to start with?  (Linux)
>>>
>>
>> I think the easiest is GnuRadio... A quick googling lead
>> to https://github.com/jasonabele/gr-wwvb
>> I don't know anything about it so use at own risk :)
>> But at least it seems like something that can be done easily
>> on a rainy evening.
>>
>> Normal RTL-SDR's do not work for WWVB as they have a lower cut of
>> frequency in the range of 20-50MHz...unless you bypass the tuner
>> chip and feed the signal directly to the ADC. As IIRC all RTL-SDR
>> give you something like 2Msps, that should be more than plenty to
>> decode WWVB and related signals. If you feed the RTL-SDR from an
>> external frequency source, you should be able to related that
>> frequency source to WWV.
>>
>
> The RTL-SDR is an interesting device - I'm putting together a hobby HF
> interferometer with GPS to provide time tags.
>
> Yes, most of the newer parts (RTL-SDR v3, for instance) provide a
> programmable bypass of the front end downconverter (the part is actually
> designed to tune TV signals and the L-band output of a consumer dish LNB)
> The backend chip (RTL2832U) is a digital downconverter which mixes and
> filters the nominal 3.5 MHz IF which is sampled at 28.8 MHz
>
> You can actually adjust the output sample rate - something around 2
> Msample/second is the default, but there's lots of other rates available.
> For WWV you could crank it down, but..
> The ADC is 8 bits (7 ENOB) and the output is 8 bit I/8 bit Q.
>
> Folks have modified the RTL-SDR to accept an external frequency reference,
> so you could take the output from your ensemble of Cesium references to
> discipline a hydrogen maser (so your close in phase noise is better),then
> use that to drive a 28.8 MHz discrete divide/multiply chain, and run that
> into your $30 receiver to improve the frequency accuracy.  (not for nothing
> are we called time-nuts)
>
>
>
>
>
>> Attila Kinali
>>
>>
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Re: [time-nuts] Leitch CSD-5300N

[paul swed]

Bill,
Well that is good news. Looks like you found your way into the clock setup.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL

On Fri, Mar 23, 2018 at 10:00 AM, Bill Baker via time-nuts <
time-nuts@febo.com> wrote:

>
> Great news for owners of the wonderful old Leitch CSD-5300N master
> clocks.  Many stations and academic facilities still use these fine clocks
> as they have SMPTE time code and impulse out as well as an audio time beep
> option.  They are still quite valuable on ebay.  The dial-up sync option is
> still supported by the National Research Council of Canada Time Service.
> The dial in number is 613 745-3900.
> Bill, W1BKR
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Re: [time-nuts] WWVB Antenna revisited/Spectracom 8182

[paul swed]

Martin
NIST did preserve the AM data so that the cheapy clocks typically worked.
But phase tracking receivers don't.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL

On Fri, Mar 23, 2018 at 5:35 AM, Martin Burnicki <
martin.burni...@burnicki.net> wrote:

> paul swed write:
> > I'll add to the comments the spectracoms are phase tracking receivers and
> > do not work on the new BPSK  signal.
>
> When the German PTB made effort to increase the accuracy and reliability
> of the DCF77 long wave receiver in the 1980s, they implemented thus in a
> way that old receivers of the original AM modulation would not be affected:
> https://www.ptb.de/cms/en/ptb/fachabteilungen/abt4/fb-44/ag-
> 442/dissemination-of-legal-time/dcf77/dcf77-phase-modulation.html
>
> If I remember correctly then there were some discussions with folks a
> NIST when they were going to introduce their new modulation scheme, but
> even though the guys at NIST knew that their approach would break
> existing receivers, they implemented it anyway that way, even though
> other (compatible) ways would have been available. :-(
>
> Martin
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Re: [time-nuts] WWVB Antenna revisited/Spectracom 8182

[paul swed]

I'll add to the comments the spectracoms are phase tracking receivers and
do not work on the new BPSK  signal.
As mentioned over the years I and others have offered approaches to
correcting the carrier. My last approach that worked very well over great
distances was the cheatin d-psk-er. Works what can I say. But it was never
kit-ed or anything, nor did I want to get into that business. My hats off
to those who make that effort. But I released everything on time-nuts and
to other people who wanted to post it.
Essentially an arduino driven by gps for time and the tick that new how to
create the actual BPSK data stream and to undo what NIST did. It flipped it
back at the same time. The cheatin part was using GPS as the time source.
It also required a soldering iron...
Simple, dump, stupid. The best approach.

As others say the spectracoms certainly have a nice display but the new
WWVB clocks are pretty darn nice for $50-70 as I recall.

Regards
Paul
WB8TSL


On Thu, Mar 22, 2018 at 3:47 PM, Hal Murray <hmur...@megapathdsl.net> wrote:

>
> organli...@pacbell.net said:
> > One would think inexpensive products would be sacrificed verses the more
> > expensive equipment.
>
> There are many many the low cost units and only a few of the expensive
> ones.
>
> It would be interesting to see how many of the expensive WWVB boxes were
> still running when they made the switch in transmission format.  I expect
> most of the places that needed good time had already switched to GPS.
>
>
> --
> These are my opinions.  I hate spam.
>
>
>
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Re: [time-nuts] There goes LORSTA Jan Mayen

[paul swed]

Poul
Good pictures and sad to see. Even the pictures of the area beyond the
LORAN system really are nice.
Hey they may have a few Cs for you.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL

On Tue, Mar 20, 2018 at 4:37 AM, Poul-Henning Kamp <p...@phk.freebsd.dk>
wrote:

> http://jan.mayen.no/nyheter/destruksjon-av-loran-c-long-
> range-navigation/
>
> --
> Poul-Henning Kamp   | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
> p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956
> FreeBSD committer   | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
> Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.
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Re: [time-nuts] Quieting the HP-113AR Clock/Frequency Divider

[paul swed]

Jeremy
I have heard about the old movements in time-nuts. Kind of a reason to stay
clear of them for me at least.
Thought they are amazing pieces of equipment, I have 4 clocks on the wall
that have impulse motors. Though not loud you certainly can here the steps
every second.
Sounds like you have success in making it quite.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL

On Sat, Mar 17, 2018 at 10:38 PM, Jeremy Nichols <jn6...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Those of us with the 1960-vintage HP-113AR/BR Clock/Frequency Divider know
> how noisy they are. The mechanical clock movement of my 113AR is loud
> enough that I really don't want to be in the same room with it. I don't
> know if the clocks are noisy from brand-new or if the mechanism gets
> noisier as the various parts wear with age.
>
> Here's how I quieted mine:
> • Wrap the outer cabinet of the 113AR in stick-on automotive sound
> deadener.
> • Put the 113AR in a fully enclosed 4U rack cabinet.
> • Stuff insulation into the cabinet so the 113AR is completely surrounded
> except for the front panel.
>
> Should anyone be interested, I can provide detailed notes, a shopping
> list, and pictures. Total cost was about US$150 and would have been a lot
> less if I could have found a used cabinet at the surplus store.
>
> Jeremy
>
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Re: [time-nuts] TymServe TS2100 dead power supply

[paul swed]

I have built an irig b encoder. Irig uses a 1 KHZ amplitude modulated
signal. I can't remember now if it was pulse width modulation also. But it
used a small processor and todays arduino is many time more effective at
the job.
That said I used a modulator using a small xtal controlled divider to
produce the carrier. It was a Epson chip and even the xtal was built in and
a analog CMOS gate as the modulator.
Its actually fairly simple to create.
Then it was a case of reading out the clock in the correct format.
Regards
Paul.
WB8TSL

On Wed, Mar 7, 2018 at 3:05 PM, Mark Sims <hol...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> I once looked into adding IRIG generation to Lady Heather.   I never came
> up with a reliable / robust way to do it.  It could possibly be done with
> some of the Windows multi-media support, but that would leave the
> Linux/macOS/FreeBSD people in the dark.
>
> I just added TS2100 support to Lady Heather... but it only reads the time
> code output string and drives the clock displays.   I don't have a TS2100
> to properly test it, but it works when fed with a simulation file.
>
> 
>
> > RANDOM QUESTION -- does anybody know of software to *generate* IRIG time
> code? Something in C that's adaptable to a modern micro would be good. In
> something like a Raspberry Pi 3, IRIG generation would make a nice addition
> to Lady Heather...
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Re: [time-nuts] Z3801A OCXO manual trimming

[paul swed]

Someone mentioned the right non-lazy approach with a summing/offset opamp.
Do agree. But then just for a try use a V supply and a 10K.
I seem to recall tracing the DAC to an opamp. The EFC line is pretty easily
accessed.
Its one of the little coax cables.
The other even lower risk approach is disconnect the coax and see what
voltage is required to 0 out the 10 MHz.
How far away is it from the DAC feeding the coax connector.
Regards
Paul

On Tue, Mar 6, 2018 at 9:40 AM, Bob kb8tq <kb...@n1k.org> wrote:

> Hi
>
> Assuming you can break the EFC lead to the OCXO, you aren’t going to
> damage anything
> inside by feeding the EFC line with +/- 5V. If you are going to tear open
> the OCXO, the line
> will need to be pulled anyway. Without knowing what they drive the EFC
> line with, it’s hard to
> know if the driver on the line would be happy with a back fed voltage.
> Best to be careful ….
>
> Bob
>
> > On Mar 6, 2018, at 3:30 AM, gandalfg8--- via time-nuts <
> time-nuts@febo.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Crazy thought.Could you just force a DC offset into the EFC assuming the
> > internal varicap is not out of range.
> > It would be simply adding a resistor to pull up or down to see if you can
> > get a bit of pull and allow the dac to move back in range a bit. Its a
> band
> > aid.
> > I know its sort of crazy. But ripping the oven apart really is no fun at
> > all.
> > Regards
> > Paul
> > WB8TSL
> >
> >
> >
> > **
> >
> > Not really such a crazy thought, I've done this on a Trimble-Nortel
> NTGS50AA where the original 34310-T oscillator had "aged" beyond the 3 to 6
> Volt EFC range.
> >
> > On a unit that was refusing to lock the oscillator was removed and
> confirmed to require an EFC voltage of approx 6.5 Volts for an output
> frequency of 10 MHz. As other tested samples of this oscillator, although
> admittedly not many, required around 4.5 volts there does remain the
> possibility of an actual internal fault but it did test on the bench as
> otherwise ok.
> >
> > Using a simple unity gain level shifter based on a few resistors and a
> TL071 op amp, just because there was one to hand, the EFC voltage from the
> control circuit was shifted 2 Volts high and the unit then behaved as
> expected.
> >
> > The effects of temperature, supply variation, etc on the modified
> circuit were not investigated as this was only a short term test but it
> certainly looked to be a viable proposition, to the extent that rather than
> fit a replaccement 34310-T that board was fitted with SMB connectors using
> the pads provided to keep as a test bed.
> >
> > Nigel GM8PZR
> >
> >
> > ___
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Re: [time-nuts] TymServe TS2100 dead power supply

[paul swed]

Bob
Classic sign of bad electrolytics.
Several comments.
I have had equipment with small switchers that were separate form the
mother board.
Often an actual supply could be found cheap.
When I can't its time to check the caps. Really cheap to replace.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL

On Mon, Mar 5, 2018 at 7:52 PM, Bob Martin <k6...@comcast.net> wrote:

> We had a brief power outage a few days ago.
>
> My TS2100 didn't power up afterwards. Fuses are fine, AC power delivered
> to power supply, which is producing nothing. Nothing looks/smells fried on
> the power supply.
>
> Couldn't find data on what the power supply output voltages should be; not
> in the meagre documentation, .
>
> I'd appreciate help from someone with a TS2100 while I look for faults in
> this little switching power supply. Looks like three voltages, +5 and what
> else? Is this a more or less standard supply?
>
> Appreciate any help I can get!
>
> Bob K6RTM
>
>
>
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Re: [time-nuts] Z3801A OCXO manual trimming

[paul swed]

Crazy thought.Could you just force a DC offset into the EFC assuming the
internal varicap is not out of range.
It would be simply adding a resistor to pull up or down to see if you can
get a bit of pull and allow the dac to move back in range a bit. Its a band
aid.
I know its sort of crazy. But ripping the oven apart really is no fun at
all.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL

On Mon, Mar 5, 2018 at 11:21 AM, Joe Hobart <n...@npgcable.com> wrote:

>
> Thank you, Hal, for these links and to others for your comments.
>
> Setting the oven temperature on a turning point appears tedious.  Perhaps
> there
> is enough range in the frequency adjustment to put the oscillator back on
> frequency - or close enough for the EFC to be effective.  If not, I may
> have to
> adjust the temperature, but time is limited.
>
> Some measurements with the EFC disconnected and a calibrated frequency
> counter:
>
>  .815  KHz  at Z3801A turn on
>
>  .9984 KHz  highest frequency seen (temperature overshoot)
>
>  .9947 KHz  approximate final frequency
>
> The EFC does have wide range; it can almost pull the 5.3 Hz offset onto
> frequency.
>
> Thanks again,
> Joe, W7LUX
>
>
> > Does the oscillator have an adjustment?  If so, is this somewhat
> accessible
> > without destroying the assembly?  Are there pictures of the oscillator
> > assembly?
>
> https://www.realhamradio.com/GPS-oven-journey.htm
>
> https://www.realhamradio.com/z3801a-turning-point.htm
>
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Re: [time-nuts] Z3801A OCXO manual trimming

[paul swed]

I dug in deep and there is an adjustment. Thats the great news. The bad
news was never able to put the oven back together.
It was a mess. The insulation stuff deteriorated. (Might mean over heated
oven)
The various wires going to the oscillator are wrapped about 4 times around
the oven. I am sure the reason is to stop temperature variations but seems
painful.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL

On Sun, Mar 4, 2018 at 11:38 PM, Hal Murray <hmur...@megapathdsl.net> wrote:

>
> n...@npgcable.com said:
> > Does the oscillator have an adjustment?  If so, is this somewhat
> accessible
> > without destroying the assembly?  Are there pictures of the oscillator
> > assembly?
>
> https://www.realhamradio.com/GPS-oven-journey.htm
>
> https://www.realhamradio.com/z3801a-turning-point.htm
>
>
> --
> These are my opinions.  I hate spam.
>
>
>
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Re: [time-nuts] WWV or Net Clock controlled oscillator

[paul swed]

Donald
I don't know if anyone makes such a thing. But I can easily think of
numbers of answers.
It depends on what the Mass Rowe will allow and how comfortable you are
with a soldering iron.
I will guess you need to dig in and supply a better reference. I searched
the web for mass rowe and it seems operating manuals are available but no
schematics.
If you can figure out how to inject a new reference things get interesting.
It may be as simple as a tap off of the power transformer going to a
squaring circuit.
Easy thoughts. Oven oscillator like 6 Mhz divided down.
Pictics a time nut makes them. Don't remember if there was a Mhz in and 60
Hz out.
Then you can go even more interesting with GPDSOs that are divided down to
get the 60 Hz.
Good luck
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL

On Sun, Mar 4, 2018 at 5:30 AM, D. Resor <organli...@pacbell.net> wrote:

> Hello,
>
>
>
> My first post here. I found this group's user group page while researching
> a
> source for either a WWV, GPS or Network referenced oscillator.
>
>
>
> The devices/equipment which I was able to find didn't  seem to fit the
> requirements.
>
>
>
> What I have is a Maas-Rowe DCB1 (Digital Chronobell Series 1) clock
> controller.
>
> Seen here:
> http://hammondorganservice.com/downloads/images/carillon/
> TempleCitySDADCB1a.
> jpg
>
>
>
> The system can be heard playing the Westminster Chimes and striking 12 noon
> here:
>
>
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ij5c6RqGhn0
>
>
>
>
>
> It can be programmed to play Westminster sequences and/or music selections
> using Maas-Rowe real struck chromatically tuned bell rods.
>
>
>
> This unit is installed in Southern California Edison area.  The problem is,
> this unit receives its clock reference from the 60Hz AC line to keep it in
> sync.  Up until a few years ago this worked very well.  Now, Edison's 60Hz
> line frequency is all over the place and this clock unit now gains 30
> seconds and/or more a week which makes it difficult to keep it
> synchronized.
>
>
>
> The 60Hz reference can be switched out by the use of dip switches, however
> that setting isn't much better.
>
>
>
> I was trying to locate a cost effective clock reference which can be
> synchronized from either WWV, request the correct time from a net server or
> possibly GPS.  It then needs a clock referenced output of 60Hz.
>
>
>
> Does such a thing exist?
>
>
>
> Thank You
>
>
>
>
>
> Donald R. Resor Jr. T. W. & T. C. Svc. Co.
>
> http://hammondorganservice.com
> Hammond USA warranty service
> "Most people don't have a sense of humor. They think they do, but they
> don't." --Jonathan Winters
>
>
>
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Re: [time-nuts] FRK

[paul swed]

Bert
OK it did look unusual.
Regards

On Tue, Feb 27, 2018 at 1:53 PM, ewkehren via time-nuts <time-nuts@febo.com>
wrote:

> PaulI have never seen a FRK or M 100 that did not have a screw iin lamp
> but Attila`s unit looks like nothing I have seen before,  I am not a Corby
> but over time 20 units have passed through my hands
> Bert
>
>
> Sent from my Galaxy Tab® A
>  Original message From: paul swed <paulsw...@gmail.com>
> Date: 2/27/18  1:45 PM  (GMT-05:00) To: Discussion of precise time and
> frequency measurement <time-nuts@febo.com> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] FRK
> Bert what I assume is the FRK lamp. it has a few wires and then 2 pins out
> of the side.
> Unless those are for mounting the lamp.
> Regards
> Paul
> WB8TSL
>
> On Tue, Feb 27, 2018 at 11:21 AM, Attila Kinali <att...@kinali.ch> wrote:
>
> > On Tue, 27 Feb 2018 09:01:31 -0500
> > Bob kb8tq <kb...@n1k.org> wrote:
> >
> > > Judging from the date codes on some of the parts, I’d guess that
> > > your FRL-L is from 1982. I’m only looking at a few parts that came
> > > through well enough in the picture to read (and that have what look
> > > like rational date codes …).
> >
> > Sorry, I didn't take much care when taking the pictures.
> > I can do better ones later.
> >
> > But yes, the board has definitely an 80s vibe. The whole construction
> > is different then what I am used to from 80s electronics, though.
> > But I guess that's because it was designed and manufactured for
> > hi-rel applications.
> >
> > Attila Kinali
> >
> > --
> > It is upon moral qualities that a society is ultimately founded. All
> > the prosperity and technological sophistication in the world is of no
> > use without that foundation.
> >  -- Miss Matheson, The Diamond Age, Neil Stephenson
> > ___
> > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
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> > and follow the instructions there.
> >
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Re: [time-nuts] FRK

[paul swed]

Bert what I assume is the FRK lamp. it has a few wires and then 2 pins out
of the side.
Unless those are for mounting the lamp.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL

On Tue, Feb 27, 2018 at 11:21 AM, Attila Kinali <att...@kinali.ch> wrote:

> On Tue, 27 Feb 2018 09:01:31 -0500
> Bob kb8tq <kb...@n1k.org> wrote:
>
> > Judging from the date codes on some of the parts, I’d guess that
> > your FRL-L is from 1982. I’m only looking at a few parts that came
> > through well enough in the picture to read (and that have what look
> > like rational date codes …).
>
> Sorry, I didn't take much care when taking the pictures.
> I can do better ones later.
>
> But yes, the board has definitely an 80s vibe. The whole construction
> is different then what I am used to from 80s electronics, though.
> But I guess that's because it was designed and manufactured for
> hi-rel applications.
>
> Attila Kinali
>
> --
> It is upon moral qualities that a society is ultimately founded. All
> the prosperity and technological sophistication in the world is of no
> use without that foundation.
>  -- Miss Matheson, The Diamond Age, Neil Stephenson
> ___
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Re: [time-nuts] FRK

[paul swed]

Thanks for the pictures.
Curious on the rb lamp.
There seem to be 2 pins from the side. Is that a lamp start igniter?
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL

On Tue, Feb 27, 2018 at 9:01 AM, Bob kb8tq <kb...@n1k.org> wrote:

> Hi
>
> Judging from the date codes on some of the parts, I’d guess that
> your FRL-L is from 1982. I’m only looking at a few parts that came
> through well enough in the picture to read (and that have what look
> like rational date codes …).
>
> Bob
>
> > On Feb 27, 2018, at 5:30 AM, Attila Kinali <att...@kinali.ch> wrote:
> >
> > On Mon, 26 Feb 2018 20:04:56 -0800
> > "Tom Van Baak" <t...@leapsecond.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Bert's M100 Rb teardown photos are now here:
> >>
> >> http://leapsecond.com/bert/m100.htm
> >
> > For those, who would like to see the rest of M100/FRK,
> > I just took pictures of my FRK-L that was sitting on my
> > desk for way too long:
> >
> > http://time.kinali.ch/Efratom_FRK-L/
> >
> > Yes, there are only the pictures of the four PCBs from outside.
> > I didn't want to take the FRK further appart, as that would
> > require a soldering iron, and I really should be doing something
> > else.
> >
> >   Attila Kinali
> >
> > --
> > It is upon moral qualities that a society is ultimately founded. All
> > the prosperity and technological sophistication in the world is of no
> > use without that foundation.
> > -- Miss Matheson, The Diamond Age, Neil Stephenson
> > ___
> > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
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Re: [time-nuts] Replacement A9 boards for the HP 5065A

[paul swed]

Well all this capacitor talk has me actually looking for the 5 uf cap.
When I picked up the 5065a it didn't work. This was in the late 90s and no
manual was available at that time.
I reverse engineered the system and guess what cap was bad? The integrator.
So not being all that smart, I hooked 2 X 10 UF caps in series. Been
working like a champ for 18 years.
Not obvious of what the downside of this approach was at all.
But I went out to mouser and have to say the selection of large capacitors
really is thin for PPS and PS. I did see the one picture of a yellow cap I
think from Germany.
The question really is what is the source and part number for a good cap.
does appear that the wima caps are carried by Mouser but may have long lead
times.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL

On Sun, Feb 25, 2018 at 2:50 PM, Gerhard Hoffmann <dk...@arcor.de> wrote:

>
>
> Am 25.02.2018 um 13:46 schrieb Azelio Boriani:
>
>> The part number BFC234421475, on <http://www.wima.com.ua/BFC234421475>
>> seems to be a Philips product, 2500 available, for 49.28 UAH
>> (Ukrainian Hryvnia, that is 1.77 USD). A mysterious capacitor...
>>
> Why not go to Mouser or DK, as usual?
>
> Or to the source itself:
> <  https://www.wima.de/en/  >
>
> (Abt. an hour of driving from where I'm now).
>
> BTW last time I bought some at DK/Mouser, there was
> a pricing artefact, in that 5% was cheaper than 10%
>
> :-)  Gerhard
>
>
>
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Re: [time-nuts] read of the wire - the Clock of the Long Now

[paul swed]

Pete,
Any updates from your doctor?
Regards
Paul

On Thu, Feb 22, 2018 at 9:18 AM, Pete Lancashire <p...@petelancashire.com>
wrote:

> https://www.theengineer.co.uk/1-year-clock-texan-mountain/
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Re: [time-nuts] LED instead of discharge lamp for Rb vapor cell standards

[paul swed]

Attila I haven't tried that and I suspect the lines are important because
that establishes the reference.
Now I would also suggest that an experiment like you suggest be tried on a
FRS-XXX cheapy Rb.
Easily dis-assembled and can be re-assembled back with the lamp. No harm.
Paul
WB8TSL

On Wed, Feb 21, 2018 at 12:49 PM, Attila Kinali <att...@kinali.ch> wrote:

> Moin,
>
> Has anyone ever tried using a LED instead of a discharge lamp for Rb
> standards?
> There are quite a few and very cheap 780nm IR LEDs available. They usually
> have a line width in the order of 20nm to 50nm (FWHM). This means that they
> still need the Rb85 filter, but they would not produce all those spectral
> lines
> that the discharge lamp has, thus one could get rid of the (not so cheap)
> optical filter that Corby uses for the super-5065.
>
> The one thing I am not sure about is the filter efficiency of Rb85.
> Because now the light isn't two discrete lines from the Rb87 lamb
> of which one needs to be masked, but a continuous and wide spectrum.
> So the Rb85 "notch" filter might not get rid of all the unwanted light
> and some of this might depopulate the excited state of the Rb87
> that are in the RF cavity.
>
> As a side-effect, you also get easier regulation of the light intensity
> of the LED, thus potentially less instability due to light-shift variation.
> Beside the LED operation being much simpler than that of a discharge lamp
> and overall less heat dissipation.
>
> Attila Kinali
>
> --
> It is upon moral qualities that a society is ultimately founded. All
> the prosperity and technological sophistication in the world is of no
> use without that foundation.
>  -- Miss Matheson, The Diamond Age, Neil Stephenson
> ___
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Re: [time-nuts] The "NAKED" 5065A optical unit

[paul swed]

Corby no intent to rework the bulb.
Its just I have had good success with bulbs from the FE- series when
they fail to operate by heating the bulb to re-vaporize the "Stuff" that
plates out. Wasn't sure if this would be an approach on the 5065 when that
day comes for mine.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL

On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 1:03 PM, <cdel...@juno.com> wrote:

> Paul,
>
> You do NOT want to take one apart to this level!
>
> It's never going to operate again.
>
> If you look at the lamp in the PIX you will see a white coil wrapped
> around the bulb.
>
> This is the tank for the 90Mhz drive and it sits cocked at a 45 degree
> angle.
>
> The lamp assy can be removed easily via 3 small screws and repaired or
> modified.
>
> The Lamp circuit is designed to put out a bit higher RF level and once
> the lamp starts it drops down a bit.
>
> I would question re-engineering the lamp circuit as it can easily reach
> 1.5X10-13th at 100 Sec stability and 5X10-14th at 100 Sec. with the
> filter mod.
>
> Unless you have a maser or BVA to compare against how will you know if
> any modifications are going to help or hurt?
>
> The only thing I replace even if it measures OK is the 1.33K resistor as
> it will "crack" eventually and change value.
>
> A 1.3K 5% 1W metal oxide works well.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Corby
>
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Re: [time-nuts] The "NAKED" 5065A optical unit

[paul swed]

Corby
Really appreciate the pix.
Curious. How hard was it to open the oven up and then is it equally
reasonable to re-assemble it.
I will guess its reasonable since you insert the filter into the system.
Really curious do you see the bulb darken as if the RB is plating out?
Thats what I see on older small FE RB's.
Thank you.
Paul
WB8TSL

On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 11:32 AM, paul swed <paulsw...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Its RF and mag loop.
>
> On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 8:49 AM, Dana Whitlow <k8yumdoo...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> I'm curious:
>>
>> Is the lamp RF-excited, or by DC going to internal electrodes?
>>
>> And if by RF, is the energy coupled in magnetically by a loop,
>> or by capacitive electrodes?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Dana
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 7:08 PM, <cdel...@juno.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Here is a PIX of the optical unit from a 5065A totally removed from the
>> > shield assembly.
>> >
>> > Left to right:
>> >
>> > Lamp assy
>> > lamp oven cylinder
>> > lamp reflector/convection block/diffuser
>> > Rb85 filter cell
>> > cell oven cylinder/cavity
>> > Rb87 resonance cell
>> >
>> > Enjoy!
>> >
>> > Cheers,
>> >
>> > Corby
>> > ___
>> > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
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>> > mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
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>> >
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Re: [time-nuts] The "NAKED" 5065A optical unit

[paul swed]

Its RF and mag loop.

On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 8:49 AM, Dana Whitlow  wrote:

> I'm curious:
>
> Is the lamp RF-excited, or by DC going to internal electrodes?
>
> And if by RF, is the energy coupled in magnetically by a loop,
> or by capacitive electrodes?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Dana
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 7:08 PM,  wrote:
>
> > Here is a PIX of the optical unit from a 5065A totally removed from the
> > shield assembly.
> >
> > Left to right:
> >
> > Lamp assy
> > lamp oven cylinder
> > lamp reflector/convection block/diffuser
> > Rb85 filter cell
> > cell oven cylinder/cavity
> > Rb87 resonance cell
> >
> > Enjoy!
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Corby
> > ___
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> > mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> > and follow the instructions there.
> >
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Re: [time-nuts] Looking for some Frequency Electronics info....

[paul swed]

Walter pure speculation.
Maybe the 100 MHz is superposed to be locked to the 10 MHz.
With a scope see what the drift rates are between the two.
Adjust EFC slowly to get the 100 MHz to go below the 10 MHZ if its running
fast.
See if the light changes to green.
If it does you know that the system is supposed to be locked and they
aren't.
Most semi good systems systems do not allow outputs if there is a fault.
But you know that already.
Pure guess.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL

On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 7:08 PM, djl <d...@montana.com> wrote:

> start with the power supplies, and go on until morning...
> Don
>
>
> On 2018-02-19 16:57, walter shawlee 2 wrote:
>
>> I recently got a strange little 1U FEI rack mounted unit called an
>> FE-7923F-100-1,
>> which appears to have rear 10MHz and dual 100Mhz outputs. it is called
>> a Frequency Reference Unit.
>>
>> sadly, my unit has a fault light, and no outputs. All the internal
>> supplies look good, and there is an FE-83AA (10.0Mhz) and FE-1020-100
>> (100Mhz) OCXO inside.  both of these work (when measured at the
>> oscillators), and seem to have meaningful control including EFC, and I
>> tracked down the adjustments in a sea of what seem to be prototype
>> boards next to the oscillators. so, I have two good sources,
>> adjustable, but still no outputs.
>> the OCXO signals disappear into a set of boards with no useful
>> markings as to function, and look mainly digital.
>>
>> the 100Mhz unit has only about 200mV p-p output, which seems low to
>> me, the other has lots of signal. I cannot find any data on either
>> unit on line or at the FEI website, so any data that is out there
>> would be very welcome, so I can be sure they at least are running
>> correctly.
>>
>> I am hoping to use this rack as a source of RF reference signals in
>> other gear, but clearly I will have to either gut the rest of the
>> circuitry and add some new buffers, or figure out the rats nest of
>> hand wiring to determine why it's not working.  any help in that area
>> hugely appreciated, and I can send pics to anybody interested to know
>> more about the internals.
>>
>> the rear apron has AC power in, a 10MHz output SMA, a switch next to
>> it that says INT/EXT REF. (set to INT), but no way to attach an
>> external ref.  then there's a D-Sub filtered connector, that runs to
>> the stacked digital boards, but its purpose is unknown as I cannot see
>> where the connections go.  there are also two 100Mhz SMA outputs, but
>> all outputs are dead, with no signal, and the front ONLINE green LED
>> is dark, and the red FAULT LED is lit. the oscillators do not run to
>> the rear jacks but disappear into three pcbs.
>>
>> hoping for some FEI data if anybody has some to share.
>> all the best,
>> walter
>>
>> --
>> Walter Shawlee 2, President
>> Sphere Research Corporation
>> 3394 Sunnyside Rd.,  West Kelowna,  BC
>> V1Z 2V4  CANADA  Phone: (250) 769-1834
>> walt...@sphere.bc.ca
>> WS2: We're all in one boat, no matter how it looks to you.
>> Love is all you need. (John Lennon)
>> But, that doesn't mean other things don't come in handy. (WS2)
>>
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>
> --
> Dr. Don Latham
> PO Box 404, Frenchtown, MT, 59834
> VOX: 406-626-4304
>
>
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Re: [time-nuts] The "NAKED" 5065A optical unit

[paul swed]

Should have carefully read Corby's comment.
Lamps left.

On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 9:40 AM, paul swed <paulsw...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Wow on the right, is that the lamp?
> Thats one large lamp to light. I am use to the little capsules about the
> size of a pr-1 light bulb.
> This is a keeper picture.
> Regards
> Paul
> WB8TSL
>
> On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 8:24 AM, Bob kb8tq <kb...@n1k.org> wrote:
>
>> Hi
>>
>> Indeed very cool pictures.
>>
>> If the lamp is like most gas bulb lights, there is indeed a “strike
>> voltage” required
>> to get things going (or an RF excitation). There inevitably is some
>> temperature
>> dependence as well. A constant current driver might be the better bet.
>>
>> Bob
>>
>> > On Feb 20, 2018, at 4:30 AM, Poul-Henning Kamp <p...@phk.freebsd.dk>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > 
>> > In message <aabpjy7pfajkd...@smtpout01.dca.untd.com>, cdel...@juno.com
>> writes:
>> >
>> >> Here is a PIX of the optical unit from a 5065A totally removed from the
>> >> shield assembly.
>> >
>> > Nice!
>> >
>> >> Left to right:
>> >>
>> >> Lamp assy
>> >> lamp oven cylinder
>> >> lamp reflector/convection block/diffuser
>> >> Rb85 filter cell
>> >
>> > It looks like there is a square filter of some kind
>> > between the reflector and the filter cell ?
>> >
>> > I've been thinking a little bit more about power for the lamp assembly.
>> >
>> > Since I have the lamp on the bench-supply I am going to plot lamp
>> > voltage vs. photo-I because it looks like a threshold rather than
>> > a linear relationship.
>> >
>> > If that is the case, I think it will make sense to give the lamp
>> > its own adjustable voltage regulator (LM317), so the power can be
>> > reduced to what is optimal/necessary without having to take the
>> > lamp apart and change a resistor.
>> >
>> > A 1R resistor between the 22-30V supply and the LM317 will make it
>> > easy to monitor lamp current, and a 300mA short-circuit protection
>> > is a nice bonus.
>> >
>> > If need be, the regulator could start out at 20V and drop to something
>> > lower in a matter of minutes.
>> >
>> > Actually, now that I think about it, I should try to measure if it
>> > is gives better stability if I drive the lamp with constant current,
>> > constant power, constant voltage or constant photo-I...
>> >
>> > --
>> > Poul-Henning Kamp   | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
>> > p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956
>> > FreeBSD committer   | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
>> > Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by
>> incompetence.
>> > ___
>> > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
>> > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/m
>> ailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>> > and follow the instructions there.
>>
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>> and follow the instructions there.
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Re: [time-nuts] The "NAKED" 5065A optical unit

[paul swed]

Wow on the right, is that the lamp?
Thats one large lamp to light. I am use to the little capsules about the
size of a pr-1 light bulb.
This is a keeper picture.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL

On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 8:24 AM, Bob kb8tq <kb...@n1k.org> wrote:

> Hi
>
> Indeed very cool pictures.
>
> If the lamp is like most gas bulb lights, there is indeed a “strike
> voltage” required
> to get things going (or an RF excitation). There inevitably is some
> temperature
> dependence as well. A constant current driver might be the better bet.
>
> Bob
>
> > On Feb 20, 2018, at 4:30 AM, Poul-Henning Kamp <p...@phk.freebsd.dk>
> wrote:
> >
> > 
> > In message <aabpjy7pfajkd...@smtpout01.dca.untd.com>, cdel...@juno.com
> writes:
> >
> >> Here is a PIX of the optical unit from a 5065A totally removed from the
> >> shield assembly.
> >
> > Nice!
> >
> >> Left to right:
> >>
> >> Lamp assy
> >> lamp oven cylinder
> >> lamp reflector/convection block/diffuser
> >> Rb85 filter cell
> >
> > It looks like there is a square filter of some kind
> > between the reflector and the filter cell ?
> >
> > I've been thinking a little bit more about power for the lamp assembly.
> >
> > Since I have the lamp on the bench-supply I am going to plot lamp
> > voltage vs. photo-I because it looks like a threshold rather than
> > a linear relationship.
> >
> > If that is the case, I think it will make sense to give the lamp
> > its own adjustable voltage regulator (LM317), so the power can be
> > reduced to what is optimal/necessary without having to take the
> > lamp apart and change a resistor.
> >
> > A 1R resistor between the 22-30V supply and the LM317 will make it
> > easy to monitor lamp current, and a 300mA short-circuit protection
> > is a nice bonus.
> >
> > If need be, the regulator could start out at 20V and drop to something
> > lower in a matter of minutes.
> >
> > Actually, now that I think about it, I should try to measure if it
> > is gives better stability if I drive the lamp with constant current,
> > constant power, constant voltage or constant photo-I...
> >
> > --
> > Poul-Henning Kamp   | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
> > p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956
> > FreeBSD committer   | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
> > Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by
> incompetence.
> > ___
> > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/
> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> > and follow the instructions there.
>
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Re: [time-nuts] Does a frequency counter locked to GPS need to "warm up"?

[paul swed]

Exactly what I have run into.
Some systems lock an internal reference to to the incoming system. So that
oven has to come up to temp. Then the trigger and interpolators need to
warm up and stabilize.

So the really right answer is what accuracy are you looking for? Because
what I mention above may simply not matter.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL

On Thu, Feb 8, 2018 at 9:16 AM, Scott McGrath <scmcgr...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Yes,   You have removed the reference from the warmup but the input
> circuits still need time to reach thermal equilibrium for most accurate
> results
>
>
>
> On Feb 8, 2018, at 3:34 AM, Azelio Boriani <azelio.bori...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> No warmup needed if the counter switches to the external reference. If
> the counter uses the external reference to lock the internal one then
> it is better to wait until the internal one is stable, maybe the
> counter has a standby mode where it appears powered off but the
> internal reference is active (usually an ovenized reference). For the
> best performance (stability of trigger levels, input amplifiers and so
> on) it is better to warmup the whole counter always.
>
> > On Thu, Feb 8, 2018 at 8:33 AM, Chris Wilson <ch...@chriswilson.tv>
> wrote:
> >
> >
> >  08/02/2018 07:31
> >
> > Does  a  frequency  counter  connected  to a permanently running
> (Trimble Thunderbolt) GPS
> > disciplined frequency standard need to warm up after switch on before
> readings settle?
> > Just curious, thanks.
> >
> > --
> >   Best Regards,
> >   Chris Wilson.
> > mailto: ch...@chriswilson.tv
> >
> > ___
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Re: [time-nuts] Receiving the MSF time signal on cheap radio modules

[paul swed]

Deirdre,
Great discussion on my favorite topic. I am the guy on the other side of
the lake that curses MSFs interference with WWVB.
I did indeed cheat by using the GPS time and 1 second tick to recreate the
WWVB timecode bits to remove the psk shifts in the received signal here on
the east coast. This allowed phase tracking receivers to correctly work
again.
Did MSF finally go to a BPSK signal format? I heard they were considering
that.
regards
Paul
WB8TSL

On Tue, Feb 6, 2018 at 4:26 PM, Poul-Henning Kamp <p...@phk.freebsd.dk>
wrote:

> 
> In message <a2b31a8c-147b-4d35-bdc2-8d64d3743...@n1k.org>, Bob kb8tq
> writes:
>
> >If you want to get even more “nutty", look at the “seed” that you likely
> already have
> >for the computation. In this day and age, you probably know what day /
> month / year it is.
>
> So, some of us think of that as cheating :-)
>
> >Since you might not (say) know the hour, you have a +/- 1 day sort of
> tolerance on that. It rolls
> >into month and year in some cases. The seed adds complexity, but probably
> makes
> >things more robust.
>
> I tried it, and it gave surprisingly little benefit.
>
> Unless very fast initial aquisition is your goal (why?!) you get a
> more robust result by not "cheating", since in real life at some
> point your RTC chip will contain bogus values.
>
> If you go the SDR route and decode DCF77 and MSF (and 162kHz France,
> WWV/B, the japanese signal at 40kHz and the russian at 200/3 kHz for
> that matter) in parallel, it is perfectly fair to expect them all
> to have the same date (modulus timezones).
>
> And yes, I would really *love* to se a colaborative project that
> produced an "all-world VLF timecode SDR-receiver"...
>
> >One cute thing is that this stuff is (in general) not very compute
> intensive. If data past the
> >minute tick is being looked at, you probably can afford to run multiple
> parallel solutions (even
> >on a < $5 MCU).
>
> The NTPns ran on a Soekris4501 and I was never able to measure a
> difference in power having the DCF77 blame code running or not.
>
> After all, it's only sixty trival patterns to match once a second...
>
> --
> Poul-Henning Kamp   | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
> p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956
> FreeBSD committer   | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
> Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.
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Re: [time-nuts] Heathkit GC 1000 Most Accurate Question

[paul swed]

Exactly they are the small open air pots.
Just one possibility along with the other good suggestions mentioned.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL

On Tue, Feb 6, 2018 at 7:29 AM, Dave B via time-nuts <time-nuts@febo.com>
wrote:

>
> > Bill
> > I see the manual is online for the GC1000.
> > The 1KHZ tone decoder may be suspect in that its drifted off frequency.
> Its
> > a little ne-567 chip with a pot.
> > ne 567s were never all that great...
> > Regards
> > Paul
>
> 
>
> 567's are not too bad, not "precision", but not bad.
>
> Small pot's are not great for long term stability either, especially if
> the track/wiper is exposed.
>
> 73.
>
> Dave.
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Re: [time-nuts] Heathkit GC 1000 Most Accurate Question

[paul swed]

I just realized there is also a 100 Hz decoder also u402.
Both use the typical open air 1 turn pots. They get cranky with age.
Regards
Paul.

On Mon, Feb 5, 2018 at 2:48 PM, Brooke Clarke <bro...@pacific.net> wrote:

> Hi: Bill
>
> Mine needed pretty much all the electrolytic caps replaced.
> http://prc68.com/I/HeathkitGC1000.shtml
>
> --
> Have Fun,
>
> Brooke Clarke
> http://www.PRC68.com
> http://www.end2partygovernment.com/2012Issues.html
>
>
>  Original Message 
>
>> I own a Heathkit GC 1000 Most Accurate Clock.  It's in terrific shape but
>> not used for many years.  It has stopped locking up to WWV and sometimes
>> freezes up.  Can any of our "nuts" repair it?  Anyone want to buy it?
>>
>> Bill, w1...@aol.com
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Re: [time-nuts] Heathkit GC 1000 Most Accurate Question

[paul swed]

Bill
I see the manual is online for the GC1000.
The 1KHZ tone decoder may be suspect in that its drifted off frequency. Its
a little ne-567 chip with a pot.
ne 567s were never all that great...
Regards
Paul

On Mon, Feb 5, 2018 at 12:39 PM, Dave Daniel <kc0...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi, Bill.
>
> I have three GC-1000s, one unbuilt and two built. Both of the built radios
> have stopped showing a time display. I haven't had a chance to figure out
> what happened to them. I live very close to Fort Collins, CO.
>
> I experience power failures fairly often and when my clocks were working
> they used to take a very long time (on the order of a day) to re-sync after
> power came back on. I am wondering if the power failures might have damaged
> my radios in some way.
>
> Have you double-checked the settings on your radio against the manual, and
> have you done any experiments to see if the receiving conditions where you
> have your clock located haven't changed or are not conducive to reception?
>
> DaveD
>
>
> On 2/5/2018 9:19 AM, Bill Baker via time-nuts wrote:
>
>> I own a Heathkit GC 1000 Most Accurate Clock.  It's in terrific shape but
>> not used for many years.  It has stopped locking up to WWV and sometimes
>> freezes up.  Can any of our "nuts" repair it?  Anyone want to buy it?
>>
>> Bill, w1...@aol.com
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>
>
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Re: [time-nuts] PBS, Tue evening, The Secret of Tuxedo Park

[paul swed]

Hello to the group.
I did read the book several years ago. Its quite good and I had no idea
about any of this.
Sort of amazing.
So the fact that PBS is doing a show on this is going to be good to watch
tonight.
Thank you for sharing.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL

On Tue, Jan 16, 2018 at 1:08 PM, Azelio Boriani <azelio.bori...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> >>...he would wear it on the outside of his wrist instead of the inside,
> so that gravity changed the rate of the tuning fork...
> Sort of manual turbillon...
>
> On Tue, Jan 16, 2018 at 4:04 PM, Tom Van Baak <t...@leapsecond.com> wrote:
> > I can't stress enough how important Loomis was to the history of precise
> timekeeping in early radio, telephone, pendulum clock, quartz oscillator
> era. And for those of us who still have Loran-C receivers can thank him
> (Loomis Radio Navigation -> LRN -> Loran).
> >
> > So I highly recommend the 2003 book "Tuxedo Park" by Jennet Conant:
> > http://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Tuxedo-Park/Jennet-
> Conant/9780684872889
> >
> > Our kind of guy. In the "Palace of Science" chapter she writes: Loomis
> would remain a "time nut" for the rest of his life, according to Luis
> Alvarez, who recalled that Loomis always wore "two Accutrons--one on his
> right wrist and one on his left wrist." He would check them every day
> against WWV (the standard frequency broadcasting station of the National
> Bureau of Standards), and if one was gaining a half second on the other, he
> would wear it on the outside of his wrist instead of the inside, so that
> gravity changed the rate of the tuning fork and the two watches tracked
> each other, and WWV, "to within less than a second a day."
> >
> >
> >
> > Some other Loomis links of interest:
> >
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred_Lee_Loomis
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LORAN
> > https://timeandnavigation.si.edu/navigating-air/navigation-
> at-war/new-era-in-time-and-navigation/alfred-loomis
> > http://www.ob-ultrasound.net/loomis.html
> > http://leapsecond.com/pages/loomis/
> >
> >
> > And the clever way to do time transfer and compare precision clocks to 1
> ms in the 1930's...
> >
> > http://leapsecond.com/pend/shortt/1931-RAS-Precise-
> Measurement-Time-Loomis.pdf
> >
> >
> > Also the classic "The Evolution of the Quartz Crystal Clock" by Warren
> A. Marrison:
> >
> > https://ieee-uffc.org/about-us/history/uffc-s-history/the-
> evolution-of-the-quartz-crystal-clock/
> > via https://ieee-uffc.org/about-us/history/uffc-s-history/
> > and original at https://archive.org/details/bstj27-3-510
> >
> >
> > If someone knows how to record any time/clock/navigation parts of PBS
> show for non-US viewers let me know, off-list.
> >
> > /tvb
> >
> >
> > - Original Message -
> > From: "Hal Murray" <hmur...@megapathdsl.net>
> > To: <time-nuts@febo.com>
> > Cc: "Hal Murray" <hmur...@megapathdsl.net>
> > Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2018 1:42 AM
> > Subject: [time-nuts] PBS, Tue evening, The Secret of Tuxedo Park
> >
> >
> >> (Sorry for the clutter to those of you outside the US.)
> >>
> >> http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/films/secret-tuxedo-park/
> >> Two of the shorts mentions time.
> >>
> >> Many thanks for the Tuxedo Park book suggestion many years ago.
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> These are my opinions.  I hate spam.
> >>
> >
> > ___
> > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/
> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> > and follow the instructions there.
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Re: [time-nuts] Stable32 now available

[paul swed]

Hello to the group. The Stable32 book arrived yesterday from Lulu and its
as expected. Good quality at a reasonable cost.
It also arrived far faster then the web site would have you believe.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL

On Fri, Jan 5, 2018 at 10:13 AM, Dr. David Kirkby <
drkir...@kirkbymicrowave.co.uk> wrote:

> On 5 January 2018 at 14:21, Graham <planoph...@aei.ca> wrote:
>
> > Lulu is currently having a promotion with free postage for those
> > contemplating ordering a copy of the manual from Lulu.
> >
> > Get free mail or 50% off ground shipping!
> > Use promo code *SHIPIT2018*
> > Expires Jan 8 at 11:59 pm ET
> >
>
>
> >
> > http://www.lulu.com/shop/william-riley/stable32-user-manual/
> > paperback/product-3507840.html
> >
> > Lulu frequently has specials, sometimes a percentage discount plus
> reduced
> > or no shipping.
> >
> > https://www.lulu.com/
> >
> > cheers, Graham
>
>
> Thank you for that.
>
> I entered the code, and it worked, but then I see a notice that promotion
> codes CAN be combined with other promotion codes! That seems unusual, as
> most places only let you use one promo code. Anyway, a quick Google
>
> https://couponfollow.com/site/lulu.com?ref=3497047
>
> and I found another code for Lulu. First I tried JAN15, but that was
> rejected. Then I tried FWD15, and that was accepted. So with the
> combination of FWD15 and SHIPIT2018, it cost me a total of just £10.39
> (GBP) with free shipping.
>
> I did not bother trying any more codes, but perhaps with patience, the cost
> could be reduced even more, but I was more than happy to pay that.
>
> Dave
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Re: [time-nuts] Identify RFTGM-II-XO Part

[paul swed]

Pat
Here is my thought. Everything may be just fine actually. This looks like
the same approach used on older technology even the transistor. Its job is
to run class AB1 and boost the signal to something like +27 dbm. Lots of
power.
The reason is these then typically drive a passive 8 or 16 way splitter to
drive the various systems in the cel tower..
Regards
Paul.
WB8TSL

On Wed, Jan 10, 2018 at 12:33 AM, Patrick Murphy <fgdhr...@gmail.com> wrote:

> My recently purchased RFTGm-II-XO threw a fault today. When I opened it,
> the unmistakable smell of something way too hot was released. I guess this
> is one bad aspect of the totally sealed enclosures these come in. Anyway,
> when I plugged it in while open, I found U105, the microwave transistor
> about centered in the attached photo was getting way too hot. It appears to
> be an unmarked microwave transistor, probably part of the 15MHz output
> circuit. VR101 - a 7815 on the far right is also getting pretty hot. I
> expect the two are connected.
>
> Anyone have an idea of what the nomenclature for U105 is? Replacing it may
> be a pipe dream, but knowing its name will be a good first step.
>
> Thanks for any assist.
>
> -Pat
>
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Re: [time-nuts] Reference input on HP counters

[paul swed]

Jerry
It depends on the unit and age. There are not rules of thumb from my
experiance.
Some of the approaches in HP as an example
Have switches and demand a specific frequency and level.
Some lock an internal reference to any multiple of a reference freq like 5
or 10 MHz.
Some are direct some are phased lock.
I actually look at each piece of HP gear and see whats going on.
Lazy can get you in trouble as I learned.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL

On Sun, Jan 7, 2018 at 10:21 AM, Jerry Hancock <je...@hanler.com> wrote:

> I’m being a little lazy as I can check the schematics, but in the general
> case, do HP counters, frequency generators, etc, switch to the external
> reference when one is available or discipline the internal oscillator?  Are
> there brands of test equipment that generally discipline vs switch?
>
> Third question, again generally, when you discipline an oscillator, what
> impact does this have on the oscillator's phase noise?  I assume this third
> question depends on the discipline loop (if I’m using the correct term).
>
> Thanks
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Re: [time-nuts] Anyone have a working HP-113AR/BR Clock?

[paul swed]

Jeremy I will speculate the noise simply was tolerated. At the time these
would have been a pretty big to do.
It was top line HP after all. Most likely other fans in the divider chains,
receivers, scopes competed for attention.
But that was a bit before my time.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL

On Fri, Jan 5, 2018 at 6:43 PM, Jeremy Nichols <jn6...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Thank you for the inputs. (I wonder what the original users of this thing
> did in 1960?) To quiet mine, I purchased a small rack cabinet enclosure,
> just big enough for a single 4U instrument, and mounted the 113AR inside
> with all the remaining space stuffed with Finerglas® house insulation. That
> has taken the edge off of the noise, making it almost tolerable. The next
> step is a layer of automotive sound system butyl rubber insulation on the
> 113AR cabinet and on the clock mechanism itself.
>
> Jeremy
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 4, 2018 at 6:10 AM Bob kb8tq <kb...@n1k.org> wrote:
>
> > Hi
> >
> > I would second the previous comment on the 113. Every time I have seen
> one
> > it
> > has been a really noisy device. Certainly *not* what you would want in
> > anything
> > described as a “quiet lab”. Since it’s full of gears (like a Teletype)
> > proper lubrication
> > and cleaning are going to be part of the process. The gotcha there will
> be
> > getting
> >  old lube out of odd places. I don’t ever remember anybody pointing to
> > there
> > unit and smiling …
> >
> > Bob
> >
> > > On Jan 4, 2018, at 1:15 AM, Jeremy Nichols <jn6...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > I'd like to communicate with someone who has an HP-113AR/BR Frequency
> > Divider and Clock, especially someone who has one actually operating.
> Mine
> > seems to be noisy (motor/gear noise, not 1 KHz whine) and hard to start.
> > Having never seen one of these before getting mine, I have no idea
> whether
> > mine is normal or abnormal. It would be useful to communicate, via this
> > list or privately, with someone who has more experience. Mine is an "AR,"
> > serial 029-00156.
> > >
> > > Jeremy
> > >
> > > ___
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> > > To unsubscribe, go to
> > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> > > and follow the instructions there.
> >
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> >
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> Sent from my iPad 4.
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Re: [time-nuts] HP 105B: Modern replacement for NiCad battery pack?

[paul swed]

Ulf
A drop in replacement for nicads is nickle metal hydride or NiMh. Nicads
are still available but can be expensive.
The other comment I would make is the 1970s charging circuits were pretty
crude and lead to boiled batteries.
If your going to invest in an internal battery you may want to consider a
smarter modern charger.
There seems to be all sorts of very nice boards out of China for little
cost. Its amazing.
If you go the alternate approach you may consider Lithium batteries.
Drones seemed to have made a very nice market for batteries and smart
chargers.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL

On Fri, Jan 5, 2018 at 11:46 AM, Ulf Kylenfall via time-nuts <
time-nuts@febo.com> wrote:

>
> Gentlemen,
> I may have asked this question before...
> I am looking for a modern replacement for the NiCadbattery pack used in
> the HP 105B. One such 105that I salvaged have been standing on a shelf with
> thebatteries "happily boiling away".
> So, what kind of chemistry would be possible to usewithout to much
> re-design of the charging circuitry?
> Ulf Kylenfall
> SM6GXV
>
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Re: [time-nuts] HP5065A AC-Amplifier (A7) Improved (?) version...

[paul swed]

Do not seem to find it on the the KO4BB site at least yet.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL

On Tue, Jan 2, 2018 at 11:56 AM, Ulf Kylenfall via time-nuts <
time-nuts@febo.com> wrote:

>  Gentlemen,
> I have assembled (what I hope is) an improved version of theA7 AC
> Amplifier of the HP5065A. It has been installed inmy (1968) model of the
> 5065A and it is working.
> The documentation has been uploaded to the KO4BB manual site.
> 73
> Ulf KylenfallSM6GXV
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Re: [time-nuts] Stable32 now available

[paul swed]

Dave I looked at the link. Expecting the typical $132 and up...
Its Lulu and $19.95. I have ordered books from them before and been very
happy with the product.
I can not answer your question on how up to date  it is. But will look at
the pdf.
If its even a bit decent the $ investment is cheap for a real book.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL

On Tue, Jan 2, 2018 at 9:38 AM, Dr. David Kirkby <
drkir...@kirkbymicrowave.co.uk> wrote:

> On 2 January 2018 at 14:10, paul swed <paulsw...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Jelen
> > Thank you for informing us about Stable32. I have been busy downloading
> > details.
> > I was surprised by the size of the use manual at some 348 pages.
> > I believe I have a very long way to. I suspect we need a Stable32 for
> > dummies book.
> > Regards
> > Paul
> > WB8TSL
> >
>
> The manual is available as a book.
>
> http://www.lulu.com/shop/william-riley/stable32-user-
> manual/paperback/product-3507840.html
>
> I don't know about others, but I often find I absorb information better
> reading a book than I do a computer screen, and at the cost of the book, it
> is not really worth the hassle of printing it oneself. That said, the
> software is 2017, and the book published in 2008, so there might be
> significant differences between the book and software. Perhaps someone who
> has both the book and the software, would comment if the book is very out
> of date, or would still be useful.
>
> Dave
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Re: [time-nuts] Stable32 now available

[paul swed]

Jelen
Thank you for informing us about Stable32. I have been busy downloading
details.
I was surprised by the size of the use manual at some 348 pages.
I believe I have a very long way to. I suspect we need a Stable32 for
dummies book.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL

On Tue, Jan 2, 2018 at 9:02 AM, Bob kb8tq <kb...@n1k.org> wrote:

> Hi
>
> If the code also *is* part of the deal (or becomes part of the deal) I
> would suggest that there
> are a series of papers in the “to be written” category about how it does
> what it does. I have
> no idea what the code looks like so this is in no way a knock. It’s a big
> program with a lot of
> research backing up it’s internals. It would be a “first ever” if all the
> footnotes and flow charts
> were already in the code.
>
> Bob
>
> > On Jan 2, 2018, at 6:05 AM, Magnus Danielson <mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org>
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > Very cool. That I ended up paying for my copy is another thing.
> >
> > Now, the code needs to be maintained. I personally also would like to
> > see it run natively on Linux, it does run on Linux under Wine.
> >
> > The best way to maintain the code would be for UFFC to put it on github,
> > preferably with a suitable license. That way a shared community of
> > people can contribute to it. I think we have enough experienced
> > programmers here to nurture such a project over time.
> >
> > If we do that, I think Bill and UFFC will get the best support into the
> > future from the community.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Magnus
> >
> > On 01/02/2018 10:30 AM, Matthias Jelen wrote:
> >> Dear Time-Nuts,
> >>
> >> Happy New Year!
> >>
> >> Maybe this is of interest for some of you:
> >>
> >> A copy of Stable32 was on my wish-list for Christmas and I asked for the
> >> possibility of a non-profit-license. Bill Riley informed me that he
> >> donated Stable32 to IEEE UFFC and it will be available for free download
> >> with the beginning of 2018. And here it is:
> >>
> >> https://ieee-uffc.org/frequency-control/frequency-
> control-software/stable-32/
> >>
> >>
> >> Many thanks to Bill Riley!
> >>
> >> Best regards,
> >>
> >> Matthias
> >> ___
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> >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
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Re: [time-nuts] Stable32 now available

[Paul Alfille]

Is the code be available, or just the compiled binary?

On Tue, Jan 2, 2018 at 6:05 AM, Magnus Danielson  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Very cool. That I ended up paying for my copy is another thing.
>
> Now, the code needs to be maintained. I personally also would like to
> see it run natively on Linux, it does run on Linux under Wine.
>
> The best way to maintain the code would be for UFFC to put it on github,
> preferably with a suitable license. That way a shared community of
> people can contribute to it. I think we have enough experienced
> programmers here to nurture such a project over time.
>
> If we do that, I think Bill and UFFC will get the best support into the
> future from the community.
>
> Cheers,
> Magnus
>
> On 01/02/2018 10:30 AM, Matthias Jelen wrote:
> > Dear Time-Nuts,
> >
> > Happy New Year!
> >
> > Maybe this is of interest for some of you:
> >
> > A copy of Stable32 was on my wish-list for Christmas and I asked for the
> > possibility of a non-profit-license. Bill Riley informed me that he
> > donated Stable32 to IEEE UFFC and it will be available for free download
> > with the beginning of 2018. And here it is:
> >
> > https://ieee-uffc.org/frequency-control/frequency-control-
> software/stable-32/
> >
> >
> > Many thanks to Bill Riley!
> >
> > Best regards,
> >
> > Matthias
> > ___
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> > and follow the instructions there.
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Re: [time-nuts] question about HP 5601a harmonic generator

[paul swed]

Kejia
Rick gave you some very good information. I have to agree that the SRDs are
pretty tough from my experience. I have several 5061s. But they do need the
bias and the RF at the level indicated in the manual. Not to much not to
little.
There is also a RF attenuator knob on the multiplier. So pretty easy to
mess it up. Seems that knobs are also a favored choice to adjust. Try to
back everything out like the manual says and see if you can get things
going.
If the diode is really bad your only hope is a bad 5061 on ebay. Many have
bad tubes and are parts units. But they still seem to get a pretty high
price.
Good luck
Paul
WB8TSL

On Sun, Dec 24, 2017 at 1:42 PM, Richard (Rick) Karlquist <
rich...@karlquist.com> wrote:

> I extensively studied the 5061 harmonic generator when I
> was designing the harmonic generator in the 5071A.
> We are now going on 30 years since that work.  The diode
> had some HP part number.  Even if you knew this part
> number, you would need to have the Part Information Report
> microfiche that gave the vendor part number.  The
> chances of this diode still being available are very slim.
> So you are not going to get an exact replacement, except
> by cannibalizing another 5061 harmonic generator assembly,
> assuming it doesn't also have a bad diode.  As far as
> replacing it with a different diode, that too would be
> questionable.  SRD's have magic unspecified parameters
> when it comes to what they do in a circuit.  The 5061
> generator in particular has extremely high efficiency
> due to its unique design.  It was designed by a Korean
> professor named Soon Choi (IIRC) who spent a summer
> at HP.  He left no known documentation as to how the
> design works, or how to specify the SRD.
>
> After a long period of study, I concluded that I was
> never going to match the efficiency in any simple
> circuit.  The diode mounted directly in the waveguide
> is the magic.  Fortunately, by that time, we could use
> a phase locked DRO and get around this problem.  Len
> Cutler in his usual style criticized me for "taking the
> easy way out", but he eventually came around to my
> way of thinking.
>
> I will give you a little hope.  The harmonic generator
> consists of a bunch of silver plated parts that are
> supposed to fit together and achieve electrical conductivity.
> After many years, the silver and tarnish and upset the
> electrical conductivity.  You might try disassembling
> the diode mount and cleaning up everything.  After
> you reassemble it, you might have good news.
>
> I will say that I have never heard of an SRD failing,
> and as you say, it looks good at DC.  What possible
> failure mechanism could selectively make the diode
> stop generating harmonics but other wise be OK at DC?
> Somehow let the pixie dust escape without letting the
> smoke escape.  Seems unlikely.
>
> Also check the drive circuitry.  SRD's need tricky components
> to make them "step" correctly.  Again, poor grounding due
> to corrosion could spoil the harmonic generation.
>
> Rick Karlquist N6RK
> Member of the 5071A design team
>
>
> On 12/24/2017 3:54 AM, Kejia Lee wrote:
>
>> Dear All,
>>
>> Happy Christmas!
>>
>> May I know if anyone knows the part number or the specification of the
>> step
>> recovery diode in the harmonic
>> generator for the old HP 5601A cesium frequency standard?
>>
>> I recently received this toy. The cesium tube seems to be OK, and I had
>> located the problem being
>> no 9GHz from the waveguide. I checked the diode, the DC properties seems
>> to
>> be OK, but just
>> can not generate frequency comb any more. I really hope I can repair it as
>> a personal new-year gift.
>>
>> I will be really appreciated, if you had any suggestions.
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> K.
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Re: [time-nuts] Oscilloquartz 8600-3 Disassembly pictures...

[paul swed]

As comment mmdd is actually a windows behavior.
If files are named in that manner they line up in the directory in order.
20171216 8603 pix 1-20.
Minor but may be helpful.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL

On Sun, Dec 17, 2017 at 8:55 AM, Attila Kinali <att...@kinali.ch> wrote:

> On Sat, 16 Dec 2017 15:14:25 -0800
> "Tom Van Baak" <t...@leapsecond.com> wrote:
>
> > Ed Palmer text and photos:
> > http://leapsecond.com/museum/osa8601/
> > http://leapsecond.com/museum/osa8601/view.htm
>
> The 7.04.82 in the 11th picture is likely to be a date code.
> But it's in European notation, meaning day.month.year.
> Ie it's 7th Arpil, 1983
>
> Rule of thumb: if it's "/" then it's MM/DD/YY or YY/MM/DD (depending
> whether it's USian or Japanese). If it's "." then it's DD.MM.YY
> (most common European notation). If it's "-" it was supposed
> to be -MM-DD by ISO8601, but too many people confused it as
> being the "new way" to write dates, so it can be literally anything.
>
>
> Thanks for the pictures!
>
> Attila Kinali
>
> --
> The bad part of Zurich is where the degenerates
> throw DARK chocolate at you.
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Re: [time-nuts] Simple open source microcontroller solution to tune DDS needed

[paul swed]

Must have missed something here. Basic? Arduino uses C behaviors. God knows
everythings been written for it so maybe there is a basic language. That
said schematics are readily available and I believe its all open source.
Thats why its been so popular. Lots of nice simple tools for it also.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL

On Wed, Dec 13, 2017 at 4:05 PM, Adrian Godwin <artgod...@gmail.com> wrote:

> It's a bit bizarre that it uses Basic. I just remember my local ARC using
> it as a project sometime ago. Possibly in the 20th century. :)
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 13, 2017 at 9:03 PM, Richard (Rick) Karlquist <
> rich...@karlquist.com> wrote:
>
> > This looks like a very good starting point.  It's a superset
> > that I can just simplify.
> >
> > Rick
> >
> >
> > On 12/13/2017 12:10 PM, Adrian Godwin wrote:
> >
> >> Maybe this one ?
> >>
> >> http://www.qsl.net/pa3ckr/bascom%20and%20avr/ad9951/index.html
> >>
> >> There are probably many others
> >>
> >>
> >> On Wed, Dec 13, 2017 at 8:03 PM, Richard (Rick) Karlquist <
> >> rich...@karlquist.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> I need a very simple controller to tune a DDS with up/down
> >>> switches (imagine setting the time on a clock).  A DDS
> >>> chip, such as an AD9836 would go on a PC board and a couple
> >>> of pushbuttons would tell the controller to tune up or
> >>> down.
> >>>
> >>> Before reinventing this wheel, I thought I would see if
> >>> anyone knows of a similar solution that can be leveraged.
> >>> What I would like is both hardware and software, where
> >>> the software could be edited to accommodate the up/down
> >>> buttons.  A last resort would be to write software from
> >>> scratch.  My software skills are extremely limited.
> >>> Cutting and pasting code might work for me.
> >>>
> >>> I need to be able to embed this onto an existing PC board.
> >>> I can't use a preexisting "daughter" card, other than
> >>> to copy the design of the card.
> >>>
> >>> Rick Karlquist
> >>> N6RK
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ___
> >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> >>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/m
> >>> ailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> >>> and follow the instructions there.
> >>>
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> >>
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Re: [time-nuts] Simple open source microcontroller solution to tune DDS needed

[paul swed]

bob
I also had trouble and assumed it was the AD9835.
That said I was curious. The DDS boards are always on ebay with mounted
chips and clock for $10.
Yes sir they are plenty to choose from still. I go along with Jerry's
comment on the arduino. Plent of code snips for control and DDS chips.
Additional note. The Arduino has SPi libraries and such to make 3 wire
control interfaces for numbers of things like the everset clock chip.
I have used these and I am by no means a great programmer.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL

On Wed, Dec 13, 2017 at 3:30 PM, Bob kb8tq <kb...@n1k.org> wrote:

> Hi
>
> I’m having a little trouble spotting the 9836 in AD’s current lineup of
> DDS chips. The
> stuff below is thus a bit generic.
>
> My guess is that you will have a hard time finding a canned solution.
> There are a
> bunch of registers on your typical DDS part. The what to stuff where tends
> to be pretty
> application specific (output frequency, clock frequency, amplitudes, modes
> ….). It’s not
> rocket science, but it also will vary quite a bit from application to
> application.
>
> By far the most common “easy to use” programming environment is the
> Arduino. You
> still will be pretty deep into this and that to get anything done. A
> simple PIC done in
> assembler would be the lowest parts count approach. That’s not exactly a
> simple thing
> to learn just for a project like this.
>
> Bob
>
> > On Dec 13, 2017, at 3:03 PM, Richard (Rick) Karlquist <
> rich...@karlquist.com> wrote:
> >
> > I need a very simple controller to tune a DDS with up/down
> > switches (imagine setting the time on a clock).  A DDS
> > chip, such as an AD9836 would go on a PC board and a couple
> > of pushbuttons would tell the controller to tune up or
> > down.
> >
> > Before reinventing this wheel, I thought I would see if
> > anyone knows of a similar solution that can be leveraged.
> > What I would like is both hardware and software, where
> > the software could be edited to accommodate the up/down
> > buttons.  A last resort would be to write software from
> > scratch.  My software skills are extremely limited.
> > Cutting and pasting code might work for me.
> >
> > I need to be able to embed this onto an existing PC board.
> > I can't use a preexisting "daughter" card, other than
> > to copy the design of the card.
> >
> > Rick Karlquist
> > N6RK
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/
> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> > and follow the instructions there.
>
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Re: [time-nuts] Oscilloquartz 8600-3 End of range...

[paul swed]

Ulf when I went to the photobucket site yesterday it did the same.
Not a good place to share any longer.
I had wanted to see the pictures.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL

On Wed, Dec 13, 2017 at 12:19 PM, Ulf Kylenfall via time-nuts <
time-nuts@febo.com> wrote:

>
> Ed,
> I am inclined to beleive you.
> I have not found any RF-wiring into the "core".Only what seems to be
> heater flex cable.
> A small part of the heater winding can bee seenin the gap where the flex
> cable is routed to theinnards.
> The only way to learn the truth will be to unwindthe kapton tape and from
> there unscrew the lidand see if the oscillator really is inside.
> Magnus got some pictures. He can upload themwhere he see fit.
> I tried to go to the Photobucket site. It attacked me...
>
> 73
> Ulf Kylenfall - SM6GXV
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Re: [time-nuts] End of Range Oscilloquartz 8600-3

[paul swed]

As much as the pictures are interesting the sites blasting out crazy
amounts of ads
Totally a problem. Touch anyone of them and off you go to whatever it was.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL

On Tue, Dec 12, 2017 at 12:32 PM, Ed Palmer <ed_pal...@sasktel.net> wrote:

> It sounds like yours is different from my 8601.  How old is yours? From
> the label inside it looks like mine is from 1983.
>
> Internal pictures are here:
>
> http://s701.photobucket.com/user/edpalmer42/library/Oscilloq
> uartz%208601%20Oscillator
>
> If you click on 'view as story' you'll see some comments that I added to
> the pictures.
>
> Ed
>
>
> On 2017-12-12 11:00 AM, <ulf_...@yahoo.com>  wrote:
>
>> Emailed Oscilloquartz that now has another name: Advaoptical... This in
>> my capacity as aresearch engineer at Onsala Space Observatory.And the
>> oscillator is at my work bench. Nothingprivate/hobby about this.
>> The answer was that since we do not have a service agreement,they would
>> not disclose any information.
>> (Compare this with Keysight who has a free downlad area for oldmanuals.
>> IMO the Keysight approach benifits their businessin the long term).
>> So...
>> I went along and started to dissassemble the 8600-3.
>> The outer case was easy. Inside is a PCB with RF buffersand temperature
>> regulation circuitry.
>> Then there is a thermo bottle with the ovenized oscillator.This unit is
>> connected to the PCB using two flex cables.
>> The oscillator unit can simply be extracted from thebottle using an
>> Metric 3 mm screw lightly screwed inone of the holes in the oscillator
>> assembly.
>> The assembly can be accessed by carfully unscrewingthe flex-cable end
>> from the other mechanics. No needto touch the three small screws at the lid.
>> Now it is starting to get intersting. I have not foundthe RF wiring into
>> the crystal. The PCB in this unitseems to deal only with temperature
>> regulation.Possibly, the RF is routed together with some heaterwinding.
>> Or the crystal and the oscillator parts is sealedin such a way that there
>> will be no wayto dissassemble it. There are several thermistorsglued inside
>> to various parts of the oscillator/ovenassembly. That will make any further
>> attemptsdifficult as the connecting wires are thin and delicateif they
>> needs to be unsoldered.
>> The construction is a nice piece of engineering.I'll give them that.
>> Right now, I cannot see any typical oscillatorcircuitry (pF, nH, RF
>> transistors) etc.
>> I think I'll contemplate on the next movefor a day or so...
>>
>> Ulf Kylenfall
>>
>>
>>
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Re: [time-nuts] End of Range Oscilloquartz 8600-3

[paul swed]

Ulf
Consider taking pictures of the process. That would be a great document for
users that need help.
Someone will post them on there web page. I have done this for things I
have built and shared.
Then we can see what you are running into.
As you have seen you have a huge range of expertise.
Can't open or disassemble it, not with time-nuts around. We like the
challenge.
Hey bad is bad nothing to loose right? That opens the door to serious
hacking.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL


On Tue, Dec 12, 2017 at 2:59 AM, Ulf Kylenfall via time-nuts <
time-nuts@febo.com> wrote:

>
>
> Emailed Oscilloquartz that now has another name: Advaoptical... This in my
> capacity as aresearch engineer at Onsala Space Observatory.And the
> oscillator is at my work bench. Nothingprivate/hobby about this.
> The answer was that since we do not have a service agreement,they would
> not disclose any information.
> (Compare this with Keysight who has a free downlad area for oldmanuals.
> IMO the Keysight approach benifits their businessin the long term).
> So...
> I went along and started to dissassemble the 8600-3.
> The outer case was easy. Inside is a PCB with RF buffersand temperature
> regulation circuitry.
> Then there is a thermo bottle with the ovenized oscillator.This unit is
> connected to the PCB using two flex cables.
> The oscillator unit can simply be extracted from thebottle using an Metric
> 3 mm screw lightly screwed inone of the holes in the oscillator assembly.
> The assembly can be accessed by carfully unscrewingthe flex-cable end from
> the other mechanics. No needto touch the three small screws at the lid.
> Now it is starting to get intersting. I have not foundthe RF wiring into
> the crystal. The PCB in this unitseems to deal only with temperature
> regulation.Possibly, the RF is routed together with some heaterwinding.
> Or the crystal and the oscillator parts is sealedin such a way that there
> will be no wayto dissassemble it. There are several thermistorsglued inside
> to various parts of the oscillator/ovenassembly. That will make any further
> attemptsdifficult as the connecting wires are thin and delicateif they
> needs to be unsoldered.
> The construction is a nice piece of engineering.I'll give them that.
> Right now, I cannot see any typical oscillatorcircuitry (pF, nH, RF
> transistors) etc.
> I think I'll contemplate on the next movefor a day or so...
>
> Ulf Kylenfall
>
>
>
> ___
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
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Re: [time-nuts] General Radio Model 723D Precision Oscillator (Tuning Fork)

[paul swed]

Here is the link to some fine pictures and the schematic. Its uasable.
http://worldpowersystems.com/J/instruments/GR723/
As a heads up the AC power comes in and is immediately doubled.
Loaded something like 164 VDC.
Reg tubes 107 V.
Osc draws 35 Ma at 135V B+.
Fil 1.42V@47 ma.
Distortions quite low .219% Tek AA501.
IMD 5.59% Tek AA501.
I actually used independent supplies when I fired it up the first time.
Totally did not trust the power supply.
Takes about 20 seconds to start up.
You will hear it running quite apparent.
I have a theory. Crystals were invented so you would not need to listen to
the tuning fork.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL



On Sat, Dec 9, 2017 at 11:37 AM, paul swed <paulsw...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Well we are kicking butt on 723 oscillators. I have the 1000 hz model and
> found it at the MIT flea about June.
> Bad rectifier section. Cap was good though I carefully reformed it. Have
> to say what attracted me was the case and then the realization of what it
> was. It works very well so now I can make sure my cesium is on frequency.
> There is a schematic online but its a picture actually in the wood case. I
> copied that as I could find no real details.
> I do have the genrad article.
> The actual internals are hot. Be careful. It uses an output transformer as
> the only isolation.
> It makes sense actually. It keeps the 60 Hz magnetics out of the
> oscillator.
> I thought my tube might be bad as it didn't glow. But its a 1.5 V filament
> ohm'ed it out and it was fine.
> Lastly I have a hacked power cable. I was going to buy the right plug. But
> it actually is a bit unclear. It should be the cenetr ground and they are
> around $15 each. Its not the cost. The 3 I see are sort of unclear that
> they match my socket.
> I swear I actually have one. Some place here.
> Regards
> Paul
> WB8TSL
>
> On Sat, Dec 9, 2017 at 10:30 AM, Eric Scace <e...@scace.org> wrote:
>
>> Another fascinating tuning-fork standard was used together with a
>> Synchronome to govern the timing of pulses of Morse code on undersea
>> telegraph cables in the British empire’s globe-girdling telegraph network.
>> Timing was derived electromagnetically from incoming Morse code signals (a
>> bi-polar signal where one polarity represented a dit and the other a dah,
>> but both dit and dah were of equal length) to set the master at each
>> downstream relay/switching station on a cable route.
>>
>> In essence, brass, mahogany and electromagnetics were use to perform all
>> the functions done today on fiber optic cables: signal generation,
>> multiplexing, regeneration, and timing recovery… not to mention encoding &
>> decoding plus printing.
>>
>> One can see a working example at the Museum of Undersea Telegraphy in
>> Porth Curno, Cornwall — a museum well worth the detour to Land’s End.
>>
>> — Eric
>>
>> > On 2017 Dec 09, at 10:11 , Don <dlewis6...@austin.rr.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > Thank you, Pete.   -Don
>> >
>> > ==
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Sat, 2017-12-09 at 05:57 -0800, Pete Lancashire wrote:
>> >> Here's a look at a 723-C (1,000 cps) and how its power supply cap was
>> >> handled and a good look inside
>> >>
>> >> https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/vintage-teardown-general-radio-
>> >> 723-c-vacuum-tube-tuning-fork/
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> The GR Experimenter
>> >>
>> >> http://www.americanradiohistory.com/Archive-General-Radio/GR%20Exp%20
>> >> 1941_10.pdf
>> >>
>> >> There is another Experimenter that goes into how the tuningfork was
>> >> made
>> >> but can't find it
>> >>
>> >> -pete
>> >>
>> >> On Sat, Dec 9, 2017 at 5:18 AM, Don <dlewis6...@austin.rr.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I was fortunate to find a vintage, General Radio (GR) Model 723D
>> >>>> Precision Oscillator (tuning fork).
>> >>>>
>> >>>> The exceptional wooden case is as 'exciting' to look at as is the
>> >>>> mechanical tuning fork inside (400Hz).
>> >>>>
>> >>>> As it is ac powered, I'll need to recap it before I turn it on.
>> >>>>  Then, we can test for accuracy! (sic).
>> >>>>
>> >>>> A real class-act, 'time-nut' oscillator from the last century,
>> >>>> predating crystals.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Don
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Don Lewis
>> ___
>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/m
>> ailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>> and follow the instructions there.
>>
>
>
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Re: [time-nuts] General Radio Model 723D Precision Oscillator (Tuning Fork)

[paul swed]

Well we are kicking butt on 723 oscillators. I have the 1000 hz model and
found it at the MIT flea about June.
Bad rectifier section. Cap was good though I carefully reformed it. Have to
say what attracted me was the case and then the realization of what it was.
It works very well so now I can make sure my cesium is on frequency.
There is a schematic online but its a picture actually in the wood case. I
copied that as I could find no real details.
I do have the genrad article.
The actual internals are hot. Be careful. It uses an output transformer as
the only isolation.
It makes sense actually. It keeps the 60 Hz magnetics out of the oscillator.
I thought my tube might be bad as it didn't glow. But its a 1.5 V filament
ohm'ed it out and it was fine.
Lastly I have a hacked power cable. I was going to buy the right plug. But
it actually is a bit unclear. It should be the cenetr ground and they are
around $15 each. Its not the cost. The 3 I see are sort of unclear that
they match my socket.
I swear I actually have one. Some place here.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL

On Sat, Dec 9, 2017 at 10:30 AM, Eric Scace <e...@scace.org> wrote:

> Another fascinating tuning-fork standard was used together with a
> Synchronome to govern the timing of pulses of Morse code on undersea
> telegraph cables in the British empire’s globe-girdling telegraph network.
> Timing was derived electromagnetically from incoming Morse code signals (a
> bi-polar signal where one polarity represented a dit and the other a dah,
> but both dit and dah were of equal length) to set the master at each
> downstream relay/switching station on a cable route.
>
> In essence, brass, mahogany and electromagnetics were use to perform all
> the functions done today on fiber optic cables: signal generation,
> multiplexing, regeneration, and timing recovery… not to mention encoding &
> decoding plus printing.
>
> One can see a working example at the Museum of Undersea Telegraphy in
> Porth Curno, Cornwall — a museum well worth the detour to Land’s End.
>
> — Eric
>
> > On 2017 Dec 09, at 10:11 , Don <dlewis6...@austin.rr.com> wrote:
> >
> > Thank you, Pete.   -Don
> >
> > ==
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sat, 2017-12-09 at 05:57 -0800, Pete Lancashire wrote:
> >> Here's a look at a 723-C (1,000 cps) and how its power supply cap was
> >> handled and a good look inside
> >>
> >> https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/vintage-teardown-general-radio-
> >> 723-c-vacuum-tube-tuning-fork/
> >>
> >>
> >> The GR Experimenter
> >>
> >> http://www.americanradiohistory.com/Archive-General-Radio/GR%20Exp%20
> >> 1941_10.pdf
> >>
> >> There is another Experimenter that goes into how the tuningfork was
> >> made
> >> but can't find it
> >>
> >> -pete
> >>
> >> On Sat, Dec 9, 2017 at 5:18 AM, Don <dlewis6...@austin.rr.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>> I was fortunate to find a vintage, General Radio (GR) Model 723D
> >>>> Precision Oscillator (tuning fork).
> >>>>
> >>>> The exceptional wooden case is as 'exciting' to look at as is the
> >>>> mechanical tuning fork inside (400Hz).
> >>>>
> >>>> As it is ac powered, I'll need to recap it before I turn it on.
> >>>>  Then, we can test for accuracy! (sic).
> >>>>
> >>>> A real class-act, 'time-nut' oscillator from the last century,
> >>>> predating crystals.
> >>>>
> >>>> Don
> >>>>
> >>>> Don Lewis
> ___
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Re: [time-nuts] End-of-Range: Oscilloquartz OCXO 8600-3

[paul swed]

Berts right about the 80C that seems high. But when I looked at the spec
sheet no details.
Regards
Paul

On Fri, Dec 8, 2017 at 1:35 PM, Bert Kehren via time-nuts <
time-nuts@febo.com> wrote:

> What about 80 C is that normal for an 8600?
> Bert Kehren
>
>
> In a message dated 12/8/2017 11:32:14 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> jn6...@gmail.com writes:
>
> My  HP-103AR frequency standard has a similar problem. I have been advised
> to  take it apart and replace one of the capacitors in order to bring  the
> frequency back into the range of adjustment. Sounds like you have the  same
> problem.
>
> Jeremy
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 8, 2017 at 7:52 AM paul  swed <paulsw...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I took a quick look at the  spec sheet.
> > It appears coarse adjustment is an option M and would  actually be a pot.
> > That speaks to another tuning diode for coarse? Or  a pot on pot
> > arrangement.
> > That sounds ugly.
> >  Regards
> > Paul
> > WB8TSL
> >
> > On Fri, Dec 8, 2017 at  10:17 AM, Bob kb8tq <kb...@n1k.org> wrote:
> >
> > >  Hi
> > >
> > > It is quite possible that nothing is actually  broken and that the
> crystal
> > > has simply drifted
> > >  outside the tuning range. It should be pretty easy to spot the coarse
> >  > tuning device once
> > > the package is open. I would bet you will  find a selected capacitor
> > across
> > > the coarse tune or  in
> > > series with the coarse tune. Changing the value of that cap  should
> bring
> > > things back on
> > > frequency. I would avoid  changing caps across the EFC tuning diode.
> > >
> > >  Bob
> > >
> > > > On Dec 8, 2017, at 8:05 AM, Ulf Kylenfall  via time-nuts <
> > > time-nuts@febo.com> wrote:
> > >  >
> > > >
> > > > Gentlemen,
> > > > We have  an Oscilloquartz OCXO 8600-3that cannot any longer be
> adjusted
> > >  into 5,000,000 Hz.It is about 1 Hz out of 5 MHz and turning
> > >  coarse/fineadjustment potentiometers cannot bring the frequencyinto
> its
> > > specification.
> > > > Oven temperature is about +  80C accordingto the thermistor and the
> > > operating voltageis at 24  VDC.
> > > > Have Googled but the only thing that turns upis  datasheets w/o any
> > > details.
> > > > Before I take it  apart and start lookingfor obviously broken
> > components,
> > >  isthere anyone that has a CLIP on this unit?
> > > > 73
> > >  >
> > > > Ulf Kylenfall - SM6GXV
> > > >  ___
> > > > time-nuts  mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> > > > To unsubscribe, go to  https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/
> > > mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> >  > > and follow the instructions there.
> > >
> > >  ___
> > > time-nuts mailing  list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> > > To unsubscribe, go to  https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/
> > > mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> >  > and follow the instructions there.
> > >
> >  ___
> > time-nuts mailing list  -- time-nuts@febo.com
> > To unsubscribe, go to
> >  https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> > and follow the  instructions there.
> >
> --
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Re: [time-nuts] End-of-Range: Oscilloquartz OCXO 8600-3

[paul swed]

I have also done this to older oscillators and it works.
When you look at the caps in the unit, if you are lucky somehow you may be
able to see what type they are.
Yes silver mica but there are various qualities and tempco's.
Try to match the quality if at all possible.
Otherwise guess.
Good luck and its not the worst issue you will run into.
Just maybe thats why you obtained the oscillator in the first place.
Hey bad stuff is my friend.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL

On Fri, Dec 8, 2017 at 11:31 AM, Jeremy Nichols <jn6...@gmail.com> wrote:

> My HP-103AR frequency standard has a similar problem. I have been advised
> to take it apart and replace one of the capacitors in order to bring the
> frequency back into the range of adjustment. Sounds like you have the same
> problem.
>
> Jeremy
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 8, 2017 at 7:52 AM paul swed <paulsw...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I took a quick look at the spec sheet.
> > It appears coarse adjustment is an option M and would actually be a pot.
> > That speaks to another tuning diode for coarse? Or a pot on pot
> > arrangement.
> > That sounds ugly.
> > Regards
> > Paul
> > WB8TSL
> >
> > On Fri, Dec 8, 2017 at 10:17 AM, Bob kb8tq <kb...@n1k.org> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi
> > >
> > > It is quite possible that nothing is actually broken and that the
> crystal
> > > has simply drifted
> > > outside the tuning range. It should be pretty easy to spot the coarse
> > > tuning device once
> > > the package is open. I would bet you will find a selected capacitor
> > across
> > > the coarse tune or in
> > > series with the coarse tune. Changing the value of that cap should
> bring
> > > things back on
> > > frequency. I would avoid changing caps across the EFC tuning diode.
> > >
> > > Bob
> > >
> > > > On Dec 8, 2017, at 8:05 AM, Ulf Kylenfall via time-nuts <
> > > time-nuts@febo.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Gentlemen,
> > > > We have an Oscilloquartz OCXO 8600-3that cannot any longer be
> adjusted
> > > into 5,000,000 Hz.It is about 1 Hz out of 5 MHz and turning
> > > coarse/fineadjustment potentiometers cannot bring the frequencyinto its
> > > specification.
> > > > Oven temperature is about + 80C accordingto the thermistor and the
> > > operating voltageis at 24 VDC.
> > > > Have Googled but the only thing that turns upis datasheets w/o any
> > > details.
> > > > Before I take it apart and start lookingfor obviously broken
> > components,
> > > isthere anyone that has a CLIP on this unit?
> > > > 73
> > > >
> > > > Ulf Kylenfall - SM6GXV
> > > > ___
> > > > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> > > > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/
> > > mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> > > > and follow the instructions there.
> > >
> > > ___
> > > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> > > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/
> > > mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> > > and follow the instructions there.
> > >
> > ___
> > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> > To unsubscribe, go to
> > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> > and follow the instructions there.
> >
> --
> Sent from my iPad 4.
> ___
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Re: [time-nuts] End-of-Range: Oscilloquartz OCXO 8600-3

[paul swed]

I took a quick look at the spec sheet.
It appears coarse adjustment is an option M and would actually be a pot.
That speaks to another tuning diode for coarse? Or a pot on pot arrangement.
That sounds ugly.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL

On Fri, Dec 8, 2017 at 10:17 AM, Bob kb8tq <kb...@n1k.org> wrote:

> Hi
>
> It is quite possible that nothing is actually broken and that the crystal
> has simply drifted
> outside the tuning range. It should be pretty easy to spot the coarse
> tuning device once
> the package is open. I would bet you will find a selected capacitor across
> the coarse tune or in
> series with the coarse tune. Changing the value of that cap should bring
> things back on
> frequency. I would avoid changing caps across the EFC tuning diode.
>
> Bob
>
> > On Dec 8, 2017, at 8:05 AM, Ulf Kylenfall via time-nuts <
> time-nuts@febo.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Gentlemen,
> > We have an Oscilloquartz OCXO 8600-3that cannot any longer be adjusted
> into 5,000,000 Hz.It is about 1 Hz out of 5 MHz and turning
> coarse/fineadjustment potentiometers cannot bring the frequencyinto its
> specification.
> > Oven temperature is about + 80C accordingto the thermistor and the
> operating voltageis at 24 VDC.
> > Have Googled but the only thing that turns upis datasheets w/o any
> details.
> > Before I take it apart and start lookingfor obviously broken components,
> isthere anyone that has a CLIP on this unit?
> > 73
> >
> > Ulf Kylenfall - SM6GXV
> > ___
> > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/
> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> > and follow the instructions there.
>
> ___
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> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/
> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> and follow the instructions there.
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Re: [time-nuts] Test WWV timecube against Cesium, Rubidium, MASER or other precision time (UT-1) metrology

[paul swed]

Pat
Way back in the 90s I measured the color subcarrier frequency of
geostationary satellites. That aren't actually stationary.
I knew the quality of the subcarriers for a number of the networks since we
originated the signals. CBS was Cs others were Rb and still others various
Xtals. I had direct access to the references.
I used an HP5360 and homebrew interface collecting the data on a computer.
I was using a wide variety back then.
No matter. I actually could see over long periods the orbital day to day
and seasonal behaviors. By gosh physics and such in action. The reference
was the 5360s oven oscillator that was quite good. I know times have
changed. The reason to do it was simply because I could.
All of that said I will believe the doppler shifts are your biggest impact
so not sure orders of magnitude really help and may actually confuse. You
will have the effects of earth, the moon and the satellites orbit. Now
thats some serious math and thinking. Some place along the line other great
stuff will work to mess with you.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL

On Thu, Dec 7, 2017 at 8:48 AM, Patrick Barthelow <apollo...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Hello Friends,
>
> I am picking up locally a couple of vintage analog Radio Shack SW time cube
> radios, 70s vintage, 3 switchable SW frequencies.  Two types, the one
> pictured and a Radio Shack model also that has WWV and Weather channel VHF
> frequencies.
> I am interested in an accurate bench test to compare the analog shortwave
> radios time reporting
> hopefully UT-1 against other available references.  For accuracy, and
> repeatability.   Could eventually add an SDR to the mix, too.
> The 5,10,15 mhz radios obviously are subject to the WWV Ft Collins site,
> propagation distance delays, somewhat calculable, and the vagaries of
> Ionospheric propagation, and, propagation delays between the antenna and
> the measured tap point to the seconds ticks of WWV.   I have some friends,
> microwave professionals, who are also hams here in Auburn who may enjoy
> doing a bench test, with published results, etc.  But wonder if anyone else
> would be interested in borrowing a RS Timecube radio (and/or use an SDR)
> and designing an accurate bench test against available modern standards?
> We are talking probably HUGE  UT-1 errors compared to what this group plays
> with, and that is OK but I think still a worthwhile test, especially if the
> errors using available and cheap equipment are predictable, and repeatable.
> https://forums.qrz.com/index.php?attachments/dscn1187-jpg.400844/
>
> Another question:  Re precision frequency measurements of spacecraft
> carriers at earth ground stations.  I have found a number of MASER labs,
> willing to help measure a 70 cm UHF carrier of a satellite planned mission,
> circling the moon.  Fun, and overkill yes .   But I would like to know if
> the MASER extra 3 orders of magnitude precision frequency measurement (over
> Rubidium, Cesium)  is useful, or utterly wasted in measuring a lunar
> orbiting spacecraft frequency over as long a period as a month, in a coming
> satellite mission?   Or, are Rubidium and Cesium and GPS disciplined
> references  plenty accurate for accurate spacecraft orbit determinations?
>
>
> Best, 73,   Pat Barthelow AA6EG
> apol <apollo...@gmail.com>lo...@gmail.com
>
>
> *"The most exciting phrase to hear in Science, the one that heraldsnew
> discoveries,  is not "Eureka, I have found it!"but:*
> "That's funny..."  Isaac Asimov
> ___
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Re: [time-nuts] Rubidium freq standard - temperature

[paul swed]

With some humor as I looked inside my egg I had replaced the caps also. So
it is a common failure.
Also note the chip is not a micro but an array or at least a state machine.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL

On Thu, Nov 30, 2017 at 8:47 PM, paul swed <paulsw...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Will forward tomorrow. Yes I recall my lamp voltage is also very good.
>
> On Thu, Nov 30, 2017 at 8:41 PM, Jerry Hancock <je...@hanler.com> wrote:
>
>> Paul, send whatever you have to clist <mailto:cl...@hanler.com> at
>> hanler (without the D) dot com
>>
>> Also, the caps we replaced were only 4 electrolytics.  3 x 470uf 25v and
>> a 270uf at 16V.  I used a 330uf 25v for the later.
>>
>> I’ve seen them for like $30 Canadian.  I think they are inexpensive due
>> to the failure of the caps, no rs232,  no docs, etc.  I get great lamp
>> voltage on mine, all over 10V if that says anything.  They seem stable but
>> I don’t have the test setup needed or much to compare them to except my
>> GPSDOs.  I hope to have a Cesium standard by end of year and I am building
>> the TPLL test set.  But it seemed like there was some decent work done on
>> the physics package.  Looks like it was all assembled by hand, then
>> taped-up, sealed twice and clamped.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Jerry
>>
>> > On Nov 30, 2017, at 5:24 PM, paul swed <paulsw...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > Jerry
>> > I have some dribs and drabs of details on the units I have. Happy to
>> send
>> > whatever I have to you directly. Suspect its to large for FEBO. What I
>> can
>> > tell is they must have been considered quite good and for military use.
>> I
>> > haven't run mine alot because I was concerned about the temp like you.
>> Nor
>> > have I really dug in. They just worked from day one.
>> > Granted maybe better if I look at the caps. The good thing about the
>> unit
>> > is the connector is clearly labeled with the pin functions. So I was
>> able
>> > to operate them right out of the hamfest. As I recall these were very
>> very
>> > inexpensive.
>> > Regards
>> > Paul
>> > WB8TSL
>> >
>> > On Thu, Nov 30, 2017 at 8:04 PM, Jerry Hancock <je...@hanler.com>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Paul, The units Gilbert gave me were TS-RFS.  They are fairly large.
>> The
>> >> physics end is about 5”x2”x2" and overall length about 9”.  They lock
>> >> pretty quickly now that I’ve replace the caps.  They can drive 50ohms
>> >> pretty hard, outputting a square wave.  I’m thinking of bolting on some
>> >> fins to the physics end. Just two points: 1) it would be nice to dial
>> them
>> >> in closer; and 2) I wish I had equipment to test them more
>> accurately.  I’m
>> >> working on building one of the Tight PLL test sets to solve #2.
>> Gilbert
>> >> suggested we look to see if we could tap into the field current
>> somehow to
>> >> set the frequency more accurately.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>> On Nov 30, 2017, at 3:44 PM, paul swed <paulsw...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> Jerry
>> >>> You have some EG RBs. Thats great news. Now I am not alone. I have 2
>> >> also
>> >>> that work. I have found little details on them.
>> >>> That said I believe they are intended to be mounted on a heat sink.
>> One
>> >> end
>> >>> surely looks like that whats would be done.
>> >>> I believe mine are LCR-10-T. Might have to double check that.
>> >>> Regards
>> >>> Paul
>> >>> WB8TSL
>> >>>
>> >>> On Thu, Nov 30, 2017 at 6:22 PM, Jerry Hancock <je...@hanler.com>
>> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> I was able to get all 5 of these EG Rubidium Frequency Standards
>> >> running
>> >>>> by replacing the caps as another member found.  They have a large
>> >> heatsink
>> >>>> on them, no fins, and are running at 43C.  Is that too hot?  Should I
>> >> bolt
>> >>>> them down to a larger heatsink?  They consume a little over 9w after
>> >> they
>> >>>> lock, about double that while warming up.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> The only other issue I see is that the 8bit frequency setting doesn’t
>> >>>> allow me to set the frequency closer than 5E-11.  I don’t know if
>> this
>> >> is
&g

Re: [time-nuts] Rubidium freq standard - temperature

[paul swed]

hello to the group
OK turns out my egg units are actually the same ts-frs sn1599.
Nice lable thats says what the pin functions are.

1 rf rtn
2 rf
3 rf rtn
4 +24 1.5A cold says my note
5 +24 rtn
6 +24 power same as 4
7 sig rtn
8 reg mon
9 sig rtn
10 lock
11 sig rtn
12 dc light
13 sig rtn
14 xtal mon
15 power rtn
16 + 5 note says .3A constant

No RS 232 apparent and I have not gone inside to look. Maybe later today.
But believe as others this is sort of pre-rs-232. Also no apparent EFC
control.
Regards
Paul.
WB8TSL


On Fri, Dec 1, 2017 at 12:39 AM, Mark Sims <hol...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> I doubt that it would be a direct mapping to a 9-pin serial connector.
> And probably would not be outputting anything unless prompted.  It might be
> useful to scope the pins and see if anything looks like serial data.  Even
> if it has a serial port, without some kind of manual, it is probably
> useless.
>
> If it not  RS-232 compatible voltage tolerant and you connect a +/- V
> RS-232 signal into it you could burn something out.
>
> ---
>
> > I opened it up, JT1 has 9 pins. What are the odds? I think I have to
> hook something up to it and see if there is anything on 2 or 3, no?
> ___
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Re: [time-nuts] Rubidium freq standard - temperature

[paul swed]

Will forward tomorrow. Yes I recall my lamp voltage is also very good.

On Thu, Nov 30, 2017 at 8:41 PM, Jerry Hancock <je...@hanler.com> wrote:

> Paul, send whatever you have to clist <mailto:cl...@hanler.com> at hanler
> (without the D) dot com
>
> Also, the caps we replaced were only 4 electrolytics.  3 x 470uf 25v and a
> 270uf at 16V.  I used a 330uf 25v for the later.
>
> I’ve seen them for like $30 Canadian.  I think they are inexpensive due to
> the failure of the caps, no rs232,  no docs, etc.  I get great lamp voltage
> on mine, all over 10V if that says anything.  They seem stable but I don’t
> have the test setup needed or much to compare them to except my GPSDOs.  I
> hope to have a Cesium standard by end of year and I am building the TPLL
> test set.  But it seemed like there was some decent work done on the
> physics package.  Looks like it was all assembled by hand, then taped-up,
> sealed twice and clamped.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Jerry
>
> > On Nov 30, 2017, at 5:24 PM, paul swed <paulsw...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Jerry
> > I have some dribs and drabs of details on the units I have. Happy to send
> > whatever I have to you directly. Suspect its to large for FEBO. What I
> can
> > tell is they must have been considered quite good and for military use. I
> > haven't run mine alot because I was concerned about the temp like you.
> Nor
> > have I really dug in. They just worked from day one.
> > Granted maybe better if I look at the caps. The good thing about the unit
> > is the connector is clearly labeled with the pin functions. So I was able
> > to operate them right out of the hamfest. As I recall these were very
> very
> > inexpensive.
> > Regards
> > Paul
> > WB8TSL
> >
> > On Thu, Nov 30, 2017 at 8:04 PM, Jerry Hancock <je...@hanler.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Paul, The units Gilbert gave me were TS-RFS.  They are fairly large.
> The
> >> physics end is about 5”x2”x2" and overall length about 9”.  They lock
> >> pretty quickly now that I’ve replace the caps.  They can drive 50ohms
> >> pretty hard, outputting a square wave.  I’m thinking of bolting on some
> >> fins to the physics end. Just two points: 1) it would be nice to dial
> them
> >> in closer; and 2) I wish I had equipment to test them more accurately.
> I’m
> >> working on building one of the Tight PLL test sets to solve #2.  Gilbert
> >> suggested we look to see if we could tap into the field current somehow
> to
> >> set the frequency more accurately.
> >>
> >>
> >>> On Nov 30, 2017, at 3:44 PM, paul swed <paulsw...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Jerry
> >>> You have some EG RBs. Thats great news. Now I am not alone. I have 2
> >> also
> >>> that work. I have found little details on them.
> >>> That said I believe they are intended to be mounted on a heat sink. One
> >> end
> >>> surely looks like that whats would be done.
> >>> I believe mine are LCR-10-T. Might have to double check that.
> >>> Regards
> >>> Paul
> >>> WB8TSL
> >>>
> >>> On Thu, Nov 30, 2017 at 6:22 PM, Jerry Hancock <je...@hanler.com>
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> I was able to get all 5 of these EG Rubidium Frequency Standards
> >> running
> >>>> by replacing the caps as another member found.  They have a large
> >> heatsink
> >>>> on them, no fins, and are running at 43C.  Is that too hot?  Should I
> >> bolt
> >>>> them down to a larger heatsink?  They consume a little over 9w after
> >> they
> >>>> lock, about double that while warming up.
> >>>>
> >>>> The only other issue I see is that the 8bit frequency setting doesn’t
> >>>> allow me to set the frequency closer than 5E-11.  I don’t know if this
> >> is
> >>>> good for these units and RFS in general or not.
> >>>>
> >>>> Thanks.
> >>>>
> >>>> Jerry
> >>>>
> >>>> [/begin buttkissing]
> >>>>
> >>>> PS:  I have learned quite a bit from this group in the past couple of
> >>>> months.  John Miles, Gilbert, Mark Sims, Bob, etc, etc have been a lot
> >> of
> >>>> help and have added a lot of enjoyment to my hobby.
> >>>>
> >>>> [/end buttkissing]
> >>>>
> >>>> ___

Re: [time-nuts] Rubidium freq standard - temperature

[paul swed]

Jerry
I have some dribs and drabs of details on the units I have. Happy to send
whatever I have to you directly. Suspect its to large for FEBO. What I can
tell is they must have been considered quite good and for military use. I
haven't run mine alot because I was concerned about the temp like you. Nor
have I really dug in. They just worked from day one.
Granted maybe better if I look at the caps. The good thing about the unit
is the connector is clearly labeled with the pin functions. So I was able
to operate them right out of the hamfest. As I recall these were very very
inexpensive.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL

On Thu, Nov 30, 2017 at 8:04 PM, Jerry Hancock <je...@hanler.com> wrote:

> Paul, The units Gilbert gave me were TS-RFS.  They are fairly large.  The
> physics end is about 5”x2”x2" and overall length about 9”.  They lock
> pretty quickly now that I’ve replace the caps.  They can drive 50ohms
> pretty hard, outputting a square wave.  I’m thinking of bolting on some
> fins to the physics end. Just two points: 1) it would be nice to dial them
> in closer; and 2) I wish I had equipment to test them more accurately.  I’m
> working on building one of the Tight PLL test sets to solve #2.  Gilbert
> suggested we look to see if we could tap into the field current somehow to
> set the frequency more accurately.
>
>
> > On Nov 30, 2017, at 3:44 PM, paul swed <paulsw...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Jerry
> > You have some EG RBs. Thats great news. Now I am not alone. I have 2
> also
> > that work. I have found little details on them.
> > That said I believe they are intended to be mounted on a heat sink. One
> end
> > surely looks like that whats would be done.
> > I believe mine are LCR-10-T. Might have to double check that.
> > Regards
> > Paul
> > WB8TSL
> >
> > On Thu, Nov 30, 2017 at 6:22 PM, Jerry Hancock <je...@hanler.com> wrote:
> >
> >> I was able to get all 5 of these EG Rubidium Frequency Standards
> running
> >> by replacing the caps as another member found.  They have a large
> heatsink
> >> on them, no fins, and are running at 43C.  Is that too hot?  Should I
> bolt
> >> them down to a larger heatsink?  They consume a little over 9w after
> they
> >> lock, about double that while warming up.
> >>
> >> The only other issue I see is that the 8bit frequency setting doesn’t
> >> allow me to set the frequency closer than 5E-11.  I don’t know if this
> is
> >> good for these units and RFS in general or not.
> >>
> >> Thanks.
> >>
> >> Jerry
> >>
> >> [/begin buttkissing]
> >>
> >> PS:  I have learned quite a bit from this group in the past couple of
> >> months.  John Miles, Gilbert, Mark Sims, Bob, etc, etc have been a lot
> of
> >> help and have added a lot of enjoyment to my hobby.
> >>
> >> [/end buttkissing]
> >>
> >> ___
> >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/
> >> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> >> and follow the instructions there.
> >>
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Re: [time-nuts] Rubidium freq standard - temperature

[paul swed]

Jerry
You have some EG RBs. Thats great news. Now I am not alone. I have 2 also
that work. I have found little details on them.
That said I believe they are intended to be mounted on a heat sink. One end
surely looks like that whats would be done.
I believe mine are LCR-10-T. Might have to double check that.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL

On Thu, Nov 30, 2017 at 6:22 PM, Jerry Hancock <je...@hanler.com> wrote:

> I was able to get all 5 of these EG Rubidium Frequency Standards running
> by replacing the caps as another member found.  They have a large heatsink
> on them, no fins, and are running at 43C.  Is that too hot?  Should I bolt
> them down to a larger heatsink?  They consume a little over 9w after they
> lock, about double that while warming up.
>
> The only other issue I see is that the 8bit frequency setting doesn’t
> allow me to set the frequency closer than 5E-11.  I don’t know if this is
> good for these units and RFS in general or not.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Jerry
>
> [/begin buttkissing]
>
> PS:  I have learned quite a bit from this group in the past couple of
> months.  John Miles, Gilbert, Mark Sims, Bob, etc, etc have been a lot of
> help and have added a lot of enjoyment to my hobby.
>
> [/end buttkissing]
>
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Re: [time-nuts] Fast rise time pulser

[paul swed]

It did make it to the post.
Question. Rise and fall times are sub 40ps is that a typo in your email.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL

On Mon, Oct 16, 2017 at 10:45 AM, BIll Ezell <w...@quackers.net> wrote:

> I rushed out and ordered one, and I have to say, I'm impressed.
> The test report it came with states 34.4 ps risetime / 32.13 ps falltime
> 8.6% overshoot measured with a Tek CSA 803A.
> I hooked it up to my wonderful HP 54542 2 Gsamples/sec scope and got
> exactly what I would expect, 496 ps risetime 7.6% overshoot.
>
> Screenshot attached, don't know if it will actually make it into the post.
>
> This is exactly what I need for adjusting various of my time-related
> instruments.
>
> --
> Bill Ezell
> --
> The day Microsoft makes something that doesn't suck
> will be the day they make vacuum cleaners.
> Or maybe Windows 10.
>
>
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Re: [time-nuts] Fast Rise/Fall Time Pulser

[paul swed]

I looked at the picture and I can see now that the sma is the pulse and the
BNC is the output trigger. Pretty interesting for the cost.
I then did a search on google for fast pulse generation and a analog
devices solution came up that delivers 50ps and actually shorter. I doubt
its one and the same method. But look forward to other comments.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL

On Tue, Oct 10, 2017 at 3:42 PM, Brooke Clarke <bro...@pacific.net> wrote:

> Hi Larry:
>
> How does it work.
> When I was working with microwave semis it was either a tunnel diode or a
> Step Recovery Diode.
>
> --
> Have Fun,
>
> Brooke Clarke
> http://www.PRC68.com
> http://www.end2partygovernment.com/2012Issues.html
>
>  Original Message 
>
>> There has been discussion recently about generating fast rise/fall time
>> pulses by various means. Here is a link to a Leo Bodnar device that will
>> provide <40 ps rise/fall time, 50% duty cycle, 10 MHz pulses:
>>
>> http://www.leobodnar.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_in
>> fo=124_id=295
>>
>> This is built on a small PWB with integral BNC connector, powered by 5
>> vdc through a USB B connector; a trigger output is provided. Price is US$68.
>>
>> I've ordered one of these for testing.
>>
>> Is anyone here using one of these?
>>
>>
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Re: [time-nuts] Z3801A and Z38XX Issues

[paul swed]

Its 7O1 thats how mine has always worked.

Regards
Paul
WB8TSL

On Mon, Sep 11, 2017 at 1:05 AM, Richard Solomon <w1...@outlook.com> wrote:

> Not according to the manual, but then that could be my problem !!
>
>
> 73, Dick, W1KSZ
>
>
> Sent from Outlook<http://aka.ms/weboutlook>
> 
> From: time-nuts <time-nuts-boun...@febo.com> on behalf of Bill Hawkins <
> bill.i...@pobox.com>
> Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2017 8:16:17 PM
> To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement'
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Z3801A and Z38XX Issues
>
> Shouldn't that be 8 data bits?
>
> Bill Hawkins
>
> -Original Message-
> From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Richard
> Solomon
> Sent: Saturday, September 09, 2017 4:24 PM
>
> I downloaded and installed Z38XX, configured both the Port and Device to
> the recommended parameters:
>
>
> Data Rate:  19,200
>
> Parity:  Odd
>
> Data Bits:  7
>
>
>
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Re: [time-nuts] Restoration of a 5065A - Continued (Ulf Kylenfall)

[paul swed]

Totally agree with Scott.
On the lamp thats good it lights.
If you search older threads on Time-nuts you will see that on the FRS
rubidiums you can heat the lamp with a heat gun and re-migrate the RB off
of the glass. It makes them re-usable and extends the life very nicely.
I do not suggest doing this if the lamp lights and the system can be
recovered. Just something to know about. I have done this several times on
different FRS units.

Wow now you have 2 5065s. Nice.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL

On Tue, Sep 12, 2017 at 5:16 PM, Scott McGrath <scmcgr...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I would say fix both units
>
> The color of the bulb is simply Rb vapor condensed on the walls of the
> envelope.
>
> 10811 units are fairly common at good hamfests and ebay
>
> Content by Scott
> Typos by Siri
>
> > On Sep 12, 2017, at 4:54 PM, Ulf Kylenfall via time-nuts <
> time-nuts@febo.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > What does the community say: Can the lamp still be useableas a spare, or
> is the color a sign of end-of-life?
> > I am considering either use this instrument as spare parts or tryto
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Re: [time-nuts] Restoration of 5065A - continued...

[paul swed]

So curious did that get the unit running??
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL

On Mon, Sep 11, 2017 at 2:22 PM, Ulf Kylenfall via time-nuts <
time-nuts@febo.com> wrote:

>
> When I mentioned redesign, it was the intention to copy the by HP updated
> designinto a new Cad project (I use Cadence PCB Editor for which I have a
> license)and then accomodate for more modern versions of the
> operationalamplifiers since I guess that there are not that many "A7"
> modulesaround as surplus. Even HP used DIP-versions in the updated design.
> Today, I was offered a partially scrapped 5065A for parts.The XO is gone
> but the Rubidium tube is there, (most likely brokenTX heater). I have no
> idea of how old this unit is, but perhaps some modules in itare more modern
> than the ones in mine.
> I would have loved to get my hands on a modern/late unit and do the
> Edmund-Opticsfilter installation (Super 5065A) as referenced here. Some
> yearsago there were one up for sale at a reasonable fixed price. I
> hesitatedand -  "kazing" - it was gone.
> I have so far replaced the 709's with 741's and removed the
> frequencycompensation components (I did that already yesterday).
>
> BR
> Ulf Kylenfall  SM6GXV
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Re: [time-nuts] Z3801A and Z38XX Issues

[paul swed]

I seem to remember its 19200, 7,O,1.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL

On Sun, Sep 10, 2017 at 11:01 PM, Mark Sims <hol...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> And remember that commands sent to the Z3801A end in Line Feed,  not
> Carriage Return.
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Re: [time-nuts] Resoration of 5065A - continued...

[paul swed]

I would simply slap a 741 into position to see how it behaves.
Also check those zeners for +/- 14.7V. They go bad.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL

On Mon, Sep 11, 2017 at 5:56 AM, Ulf Kylenfall via time-nuts <
time-nuts@febo.com> wrote:

>
> Continuing my efforts to fix the 5065A...
>
> There was something wrong in the A7 (AC Amplifier assembly).
>
> DC balance of the input stage was completely off-scale
> and one of the 1854-0023 transistors had an open junction.Luckily I had a
> small supply of them but I also discovered that
> the OP-Amps were old "seven of nines" (709).
>
> There are several different manuals floating around on the internet,
> and the hard copy that I have shows two different versions
> of A7. One with 709 and one using 741 that is also different
> in terms of circuit design and layout.
>
> I am considering redesigning A7 using modern CAD and also
> purchasing boards from a professional vendor, but first I would like
> to know if anyone has tried both versions and if there are any
> improvements. The modern 741-version uses DIP-socketed
> OP-Amps so that version could be tried with even better
> types.
> BR
> Ulf Kylenfall   SM6GXV
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[time-nuts] E-Loran

[REEVES Paul]

Looks like the S. Koreans are pressing ahead with their e-Loran system.
http://insidegnss.com/node/5598

'Old' tech never dies

Paul G8GJA
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[time-nuts] Trimble Thunderbolt no longer determines the correct date

[Paul Christensen]

I'm late in the discussion.  I rebooted my Thunderbolt this morning and it
shows a date of 1998 in Thunderbolt Monitor -- and also shows the same
incorrect date on my Thunderbolt's LCD display.  I purchased the large LCD
unit on eBay a few years ago but I no longer recall who supplied it.  A
photo can be seen in a link on my QRZ.com page at
https://www.qrz.com/db/w9ac  See the hyperlink "GPS-Locked Frequency
Standard" in the introduction paragraph.

So, at this time is there a viable solution that will make the LCD read the
proper date?  I am less concerned about the date showing accurately on the
desktop Thunderbolt Monitor program.  Many thanks!

Paul, W9AC



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Re: [time-nuts] GPS Arctic graphs

[paul swed]

Leo
I had no idea that you had done this work.
Pretty interesting. Amazing amount of weight and the fact that it ran for
some 134 days.
Thanks for sharing.
Paul
WB8TSL

On Sun, Aug 27, 2017 at 3:18 PM, Leo Bodnar <l...@leobodnar.com> wrote:

> Perhaps, completely unrelated and useless information - I had a small
> balloon that flew about 9km off the North Pole at altitude of around 13km
> while reporting its position derived from GPS.
> http://leobodnar.com/balloons/B-64/
>
> Telemetry included time, date, coordinates, altitude, number of GPS
> satellites, onboard temperature, battery and solar panel voltages.
> The raw data is still available here http://leobodnar.com/balloons/
> B-64/B-64-telemetry.csv
>
> What can I say which is of interest?  It was very cold, down to -60C at
> night, GPS works everywhere, number of useful satellites increased as you
> move towards the North and the Sun indeed does not set on the North Pole
> during summer (but stays very low to be useful.)
>
> I have used Ublox MAX-8Q for navigation. It was able to cope with low
> temperatures - way below its specified limit but it really did not like
> sharp temperature changes, e.g. during sunset.  Which is expected.
> When the Sun sets temperature changes by 10-30C down within few minutes,
> below -45C TCXO finds itslef way way outside its correction zone and starts
> drifting a lot (I suspect even worse than just XO would), tracking engine
> gives up and falls back into acquisition mode and it really drains the
> batteries. I had a tiny local heater for TCXO but can't say how effective
> it was - probably not very.  For power management reasons I have used power
> saving mode so acquisition fall-backs were not welcome.  I was also not
> able to find a way of deferring Ublox download of ephemeris during the
> night, where the power is extraordinarily precious.
>
> Cheers
> Leo
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Re: [time-nuts] Eclipse

[paul swed]

Bill
Interesting on the water fall.
To reverse the offsets.
Take the difference of the frequency from the supposed center frequency.
Then add it to to the supposed center frequency.
Flip this process if I have it backwards.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL

On Fri, Aug 25, 2017 at 8:02 PM, <bill.ric...@verizon.net> wrote:

>
>
> Here is info that I received for the eclipse.  My excel readout WWV error
> is
> corrected for frequency. My screen capture of waterfall is not.  How to I
> show fx waterfall error to correct for backwards fx output from output of
> 3586?
>
>
>
> Notice cool error (1 hz) during eclipse around 1400 L on waterfall and 1800
> Z on readout!
>
>
>
>
>
> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/3b6nth0rpj7sst1/AAAOkk6q1jk41T5h3nqrFfwYa?dl=0
>
>
>
> 73,
>
>
>
> Bill WA2DVU
>
> Cape May
>
>
>
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Re: [time-nuts] (no subject)

[paul swed]

It hasn't been discussed before that I can recall.
But its a cold RB clock and though it stable its still a secondary
reference.
Bob your right its interesting that the sales locations are in China and
India. Perhaps a larger opportunity for a RB reference today.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL

On Sat, Aug 19, 2017 at 3:46 PM, Bob kb8tq <kb...@n1k.org> wrote:

> Hi
>
> Located just outside Bordeaux ….. ROAD TRIP 
>
> I don’t think there’s been much mentioned about them before. It’s
> interesting that their
> main sales thrust so far seems to be China and India.
>
> Bob
>
> > On Aug 19, 2017, at 3:04 PM, Ole Petter Ronningen <opronnin...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > Hello
> >
> > I just stumbled across this:
> > https://www.muquans.com/index.php/products/mclock
> >
> > A commercially available cold atom rubidium clock! My apologies if this
> has
> > already been reported on the list.
> >
> > Ole
> > ___
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Re: [time-nuts] How well does GPS work in the Arcitic?

[paul swed]

I have been watching the thread and there is no reason for GPS not to work
at the poles.
Granted there can be solar events that upset it with things like severe
multi-path but in general if the skies not glowing its most likely just
fine. Also I believe the sats are somewhat low in the sky.
Skips comment makes sense on the 90 degrees. I can see how that math would
get tricky and its a general use-case that most likely someone said so
what
 On the north pole in an aircraft you would most likely rarely ever be
exactly at that point and in a plane it would not be all that long.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL


On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 3:04 PM, Skip Withrow <skip.with...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Hello Time-Nuts,
>
> I can attest that GPS works fine at the poles, though my experience was at
> the South Pole.  Every year the USGS goes to the South Pole to mark the
> geographic pole.  Since the ice is moving 10 meters per year at the pole
> the pole appears to march across the ice.
>
> One year ('97-'98 I believe) I took my GPS II and sat it on the choke ring
> antenna the USGS had set up.  It read S89°59'59" latitude.  I was
> impressed!  We waited a bit to see if it would ever read 90° but it did
> not.  It just wandered around a bit.  My speculation is that the math blows
> up at 90° so it never goes there.
>
> I have a picture of the event as well.  If I get some time this evening
> I'll have to scan it and post.
>
> Yes, I agree that the HDOP is better at the poles and the VDOP worse, but
> GPS works perfectly well anywhere on earth (for most purposes).
>
> Regards,
> Skip Withrow
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Re: [time-nuts] Ships fooled in GPS spoofing attack suggest Russian cyberweapon

[REEVES Paul]

This was referred to in my post (subject: 'Loran') on 8/8/17 and was a news 
item in 'Inside GNSS' and other journals before that. Didn't get many comments 
on my post :-(  
 Must have used the wrong subject

Paul  G8GJA

-Original Message-
From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of John Allen
Sent: 12 August 2017 22:23
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: [time-nuts] Ships fooled in GPS spoofing attack suggest Russian 
cyberweapon

FYI, John K1AE

-Original Message-
From: YCCC [mailto:yccc-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of ROBERT DOHERTY
Sent: Saturday, August 12, 2017 9:26 AM
To: YCCC Reflector
Subject: [YCCC] Fwd: Re: [Radio Officers, ] Ships fooled in GPS spoofing 
attack suggest Russian cyberweapon

As if there were not enough problems in the world .

Whitey  K1VV  

> Date: August 12, 2017 at 7:37 AM
> Subject: Re: [Radio Officers, ] Ships fooled in GPS spoofing 
> attack suggest Russian cyberweapon
> 
> Ships fooled in GPS spoofing attack suggest Russian cyberweapon
> 
> News from: New Scientis (article reported by R/O Luca Milone – 
> IZ7GEG)
> 
> 
> https://www.newscientist.com/article/2143499-ships-fooled-in-gps-spoof
> ing-attack-suggest-russian-cyberweapon/#.WY6zNfZq1VA.google_plusone_sh
> are 
> https://www.newscientist.com/article/2143499-ships-fooled-in-gps-spoof
> ing-attack-suggest-russian-cyberweapon/#.WY6zNfZq1VA.google_plusone_sh
> are
> 
> 
> On date: 10 August 2017
> 
> By David Hambling
> 
> 
> Reports of satellite navigation problems in the Black Sea suggest that 
> Russia may be testing a new system for spoofing GPS, New Scientist has 
> learned. This could be the first hint of a new form of electronic warfare 
> available to everyone from rogue nation states to petty criminals.
> 
> 
> On 22 June, the US Maritime Administration filed a seemingly bland 
> incident report. The master of a ship off the Russian port of Novorossiysk 
> had discovered his GPS put him in the wrong spot – more than 32 kilometres 
> inland, at Gelendzhik Airport.
> 
> 
> After checking the navigation equipment was working properly, the captain 
> contacted other nearby ships. Their AIS traces – signals from the automatic 
> identification system used to track vessels – placed them all at the same 
> airport. At least 20 ships were affected 
> http://maritime-executive.com/editorials/mass-gps-spoofing-attack-in-black-sea
>  .
> 
>  
> While the incident is not yet confirmed, experts think this is the first 
> documented use of GPS misdirection – 
> https://www.marad.dot.gov/msci/alert/2017/2017-005a-gps-interference-black-sea/
>   a spoofing attack that has long been warned of but never been seen in the 
> wild.
> 
> 
> Until now, the biggest worry for GPS has been it can be jammed 
> https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn20202-gps-chaos-how-a-30-box-can-jam-your-life/
>   by masking the GPS satellite signal with noise. While this can cause chaos, 
> it is also easy to detect. GPS receivers sound an alarm when they lose the 
> signal due to jamming. Spoofing is more insidious: a false signal from a 
> ground station simply confuses a satellite receiver. “Jamming just causes the 
> receiver to die, spoofing causes the receiver to lie,” says consultant David 
> Last http://www.professordavidlast.co.uk/ , former president of the UK’s 
> Royal Institute of Navigation.
> 
> 
> Todd Humphreys 
> http://www.ae.utexas.edu/faculty/faculty-directory/humphreys , of the 
> University of Texas at Austin, has been warning of the coming danger of GPS 
> spoofing for many years. In 2013, he showed how a superyacht with 
> state-of-the-art navigation could be lured off-course by GPS spoofing. “The 
> receiver’s behaviour in the Black Sea incident was much like during the 
> controlled attacks http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/navi.183/full  
> my team conducted,” says Humphreys.
> 
> 
> Humphreys thinks this is Russia experimenting with a new form of 
> electronic warfare. Over the past year, GPS spoofing has been causing chaos 
> for the receivers on phone apps in central Moscow to misbehave 
> https://themoscowtimes.com/articles/the-kremlin-eats-gps-for-breakfast-55823 
> . The scale of the problem did not become apparent until people began trying 
> to play Pokemon Go. The fake signal, which seems to centre on the Kremlin, 
> relocates anyone nearby to Vnukovo Airport 
> http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2017/01/bizarre-gps-spoofing-means-drivers-near-kremlin-always-airport/
>  , 32 km away. This is probably for defensive reasons; many NATO guided 
> bombs, missiles and drones rely on GPS navigation, and successful spoofing 
>

Re: [time-nuts] Sharing a GPS Antenna

[paul swed]

Clay
Antennas can be shared through splitters.
I have an 8 port satellite TV splitter. Auto sense DC and DC blocking.
Inexpensive and on ebay and amazon.
Interestingly 8 ports is never enough when your a time-nut.
So you can do the same simply come off of one of your new ports from the
splitter.
I added an amplifier to correct for the 16 db of loss in the 8 port
splitter.
Most modern antennas have quite a bit of gain so with good feed line (I use
1/2" hardline) You may not need the amplifier.
I am quite interested in your blitzertung perhaps we could correspond
directly.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL


On Mon, Aug 14, 2017 at 1:41 PM, Clay Autery <caut...@montac.com> wrote:

> Thank you one and all for all the help and suggestions.
>
> I've got an HP 58516A w/external DC input option on the way.  Now to
> find a proper N-male terminator for the unused port, and start gathering
> up cable and connectors to hook it all up.  
>
> __
> Clay Autery, KY5G
> MONTAC Enterprises
> (318) 518-1389
>
> On 8/14/2017 9:22 AM, Clay Autery wrote:
> > I'm toying with the idea of trying to share a single PCTEL GPS antenna
> > three-ways.
> >
> >
>
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